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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> The Chinook List
[mailto:CHINOOK@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Francisc
Czobor<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 18 April 2005 11:26 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>
CHINOOK@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: What is
"barred-L"<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Dear Jordan,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have to confess that actually I never heard pronounced the Welsh "ll"
or the Tibetan "lh".</DIV>
<DIV>But the description "voiceless lateral fricative" suggests indeed a
hissing sound as you describe, and that was also my image of how to articulate
it, but such a hissing sound I would never transliterate as "tl" or "kl", that
was my problem.</DIV>
<DIV>But you're right, if I try to pronounce the word "seaL", the last
sound is almost like a "tl".</DIV>
<DIV>The "barred-L" is indeed difficult to approximate using only the Roman
letters. I've seen in Kerr's "Vocabulary of the Language of Nootka, or
King George's Sound" (1778) this sound rendered through combinations of up
to 6 letters! (lszthl)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Francisc<SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>A
trivial point, but I found myself scratching my head wondering who "Kerr" was
who collected a Nootka vocabulary. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Turns out that he was just an anthologist who published "A General
History and Collection of Voyages and Travels..etc etc" in multiple volumes in
the early 19th century. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
vocabulary in question is just a reprint of the one that appears as an
appendix in the published account of Cook's third voyage
(1785). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But
I found to my surprise and delight that both Kerr</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/15425">http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/15425</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/ItemRecord/47810?id=96b88def14c0c3ec">http://www.canadiana.org/ECO/ItemRecord/47810?id=96b88def14c0c3ec</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>and
Cook</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://www.kb.dk/elib/bhs/cook/contents.htm">http://www.kb.dk/elib/bhs/cook/contents.htm</A></FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://gdz-srv3.sub.uni-goettingen.de/cache/toc/D135290.html">http://gdz-srv3.sub.uni-goettingen.de/cache/toc/D135290.html</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>are
available in full (in two different places!) on the amazing www. (At
least this works from my nice academic computer here.)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=168442804-19042005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Ross
Clark</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>