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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>LaXayam naa Siks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Good thought the 'kilcoolly tyee' could be the
'chief of the underground' who caused earthquake.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Many of Cook's and Walker's words are purely
nuchanulth, it would be good to compare</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>to recent nuchanulth dictionary available for
proper spelling or atleast an accurate phonetic rendition. Some of these
words would ultimately become </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>part of trade wawa I am sure.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For example, some purely nuchanulth which
became part of trade wawa:
Luucma = kloochman
or <U>tl</U>uuL =
kloosh or <U>ch'</U>a?ak =
chuck</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>or koXsh?a<U>tl</U>
= kokshit</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> where L is a lateral L sound, and X is
a (?) uvular fricative. Pardon the Makah pronunciations. Also ? is a
glottal stop above.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also, some may have come from
wawa.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Greetings,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>scott/ooshtaqi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Leanne Riding" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:riding@timetemple.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>riding@timetemple.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "Scott Tyler" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:s.tylermd@COMCAST.NET"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>s.tylermd@COMCAST.NET</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cc: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:CHINOOK@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>CHINOOK@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>;
"Dave Robertson" <</FONT><A href="mailto:ddr11@uvic.ca"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>ddr11@uvic.ca</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:51 AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: Vocabulary of Indian words / Nootka
Sound</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Hello! Thanks for the info!<BR>> If the event took place in Aug.
then perhaps the mid-winter ceremony is <BR>> not what was happening
there?<BR>> "kilcoolly tyhee" reminded me of CJ's "keekwillee tyee," the
underground <BR>> opposite of "saghalie tyee." That sounds earthquaky too.
:)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I can contribute some history. If I fail to explain
something very well, <BR>> let me know and I will try to elaborate. Pardon me
if I mention stuff <BR>> already known by folks here, as it may be helpful to
some readers.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> The "Nootka" word lists /are/ important
historically in understanding <BR>> how CJ came to exist in its present form,
and why there are ties between <BR>> "Nootka" and CJ. These word lists are
numerous because for years after <BR>> the sensation caused by the visitation
of Captain James Cook and his <BR>> crew (1778), Nootka Sound (associated
with the Nuuchahnulth) was a <BR>> primary destination for ships heading to
the northwest coast (except for <BR>> Russian). One noteworthy account by
Alexander Walker provides a list of <BR>> over 100 "Nootka" words ca. 1785-86
(A sampling of words from that list <BR>> which will sound familiar to CJ
afficionados is below). Also noteworthy <BR>> was an international rush for a
foothold in the region which took place <BR>> ca. 1788-91 (A listing of a few
relevant names from that period will <BR>> probably have a familiar ring:
Dixon, Meares, Colnett, Metcalf, <BR>> Kendrick, Gray, Martinez). Roundabout
this time, canoes in Nootka Sound <BR>> began to be rigged with sails
(Colnett claims credit for this innovation <BR>> in his account). So, while
only a decade and a half passed between <BR>> Cook's visit and Robert Gray's
apparent initiation of the Boston ship <BR>> trade in the Columbia River
(1792), much of the coast was already by <BR>> then well visited by trade
vessels of all sorts. Also worth noting is <BR>> that unless the author is
hugely exaggerating, the document is very <BR>> probably early; many people
of Nootka Sound had guns by ca. 1805 and <BR>> cannons would also be
acquired. In other words, if it is felt that this <BR>> manuscript could be
dated pre-1800, that in itself would not pose a <BR>> problem
historically.<BR>> <BR>> Another decade and a half later when Astoria on
the Columbia River <BR>> became another rival to "Nootka" (1811, by then
other harbours on the <BR>> coast were well visited), there is no reason to
doubt that certain <BR>> residents of the Columbia and those of Nootka Sound
were in regular <BR>> direct contact--plenty of textual evidence to support
it at any rate. <BR>> And of course other communities had ties as well. What
I do not know <BR>> --the descendents might know-- is how travel between such
far-flung <BR>> communities was normally carried out, but native passengers
did also <BR>> travel aboard the trade vessels themselves in various
capacities.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> What's important to know about the
non-native coastal trading vessels <BR>> destined for "Nootka" is that once
they arrived they did not stay put. <BR>> For all the emphasis placed on
Nootka Sound, the coastal traders <BR>> (pre-1811) did not expect to
one-stop-shop, and they did not set up <BR>> posts with stores (at least,
none succeeded apart from the Spanish, and <BR>> Meares briefly if his claims
are to be believed). They sailed around <BR>> looking for harbours, visiting
as many coastal peoples as their stock of <BR>> goods and supplies and ship's
condition would allow. I would say it is <BR>> very probable that something
like today's familiar form of CJ took shape <BR>> at numerous points on the
coast simultaneously, because of the nature of <BR>> its formation, and the
mobile and stable presence of its speakers on all <BR>> sides of the trading
arrangements. I've always thought that some kind of <BR>> repertoire of
broadly-known words suitable for trade, etc., must have <BR>> already existed
in Nootka Sound and elsewhere before Cook came by <BR>> anyway, and so far
have not seen any reason to doubt it.<BR>> <BR>> Another thought is that
the words mentioned -- "mamook" [to do] <BR>> "kilcoolly tyhee" [underground
tyee] -- sound to me consistent with what <BR>> might have been used in
Nootka Sound as early as Walker's visit, whether <BR>> CJ or not. On the
other hand, I'm wondering, the way missionaries made <BR>> use of the idea of
"kilcoolly tyhee," does that have a bearing or not? I <BR>> don't know much
about the extent to which the current familiarity with <BR>> these terms as a
part of CJ has to do with Gold Rush-era dictionary <BR>> compilation across
the entire region; worth thinking about. In that <BR>> light, also worth
thinking about is, what does it mean when words such <BR>> as Tenas and
Potlatch are to be found in Gabriele Franchère's Columbia <BR>> River word
list apparently dating from 1811-1814?<BR>> <BR>> Maybe a bigger question
which I need explained to me at risk of starting <BR>> a conflagration :)
what exactly is Chinook Jargon, anway? In the sense <BR>> of having to
differentiate it from "Nootka."<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Some other thoughts
worth noting:<BR>> <BR>> - The French character of CJ did not appear, in
my opinion, until ca. <BR>> 1805 (roughly the time of the Lewis and
Clark expedition) when overland <BR>> visitation by francophones began to
touch the northern parts of the west <BR>> coast.<BR>> - Between
1814-1846, there was very little political hindrance which <BR>> might
restrict movement in the region in question (except for Alaska), <BR>> due to
the boundary dispute between Britain and the U.S.A. Not that <BR>> there was
much of that before 1814-- but there certainly was after 1846.<BR>> - While
"Nootka" captured the imaginations of investors, politicians and <BR>>
adventurers, who hoped to generate huge profits in the East Asian market
<BR>> by selling northwest coast sea otter pelts, in practice it was not easy
<BR>> to do so and competition could collapse a venture. The most frequent
<BR>> visitors, the most secretive, and the least noticeable were the
<BR>> entrepreneurs; historians have noted that they regularly kept secrets
<BR>> even from their employers. While the ships themselves might be <BR>>
considered "British" or "American" (or "Swedish" or "Portuguese" for <BR>>
that matter -- but thats another story) etc., the background of the <BR>>
captain, crew and passengers varied widely. Things they probably would <BR>>
not do: publicize the composition of their trade goods; publicize their <BR>>
actual profits and losses; publicize their favorite trading spots and <BR>>
convenient harbours.<BR>> - My interest is piqued as to whether the
manuscript was written by a <BR>> British writer or an American (ie. after
ca. 1790) because the Boston <BR>> ships became very active on the coast
leading up the early 19th century.<BR>> <BR>> Familiar-looking pre-1800
"Nootka" words, with a CJ word for comparison<BR>> <BR>> From Cook's
1778:<BR>> tanass, tanas [a man, "tenas"]<BR>> wook, wik [no,
"wake"]<BR>> macook [to barter, "makook"]<BR>> seekemaile [iron, or metal
of any sort, "chikimin"]<BR>> chauk [water, "chuck"]<BR>> pacheetl,
pachatl [to give; give me, "potlatch" (in the CJ sense of "to <BR>>
give")]<BR>> tseeapoox [a conic cap made of mat, worn on the head]<BR>>
aptsheetl [to steal, "ipsoot" lost or gone]<BR>> <BR>> In Alexander
Walker's 1785-86 "Nootka" word list:<BR>> sickemaillé [iron,
"chickamin"]<BR>> mowitch [a deer, "mowitch"]<BR>> klootshama [a woman,
"klootchman"]<BR>> tanas [a boy, "tenas"]<BR>> seeapoox [a plain cap (eds.
"hat"), "seapeault"]<BR>> akee-ék [the barbs (on a fishing spear, eds. "thing
whittled with <BR>> knife"), "ikik" or fish hook]<BR>> klooksh. klookh [it
is good. excellent (eds. "good", "Chinook Jargon"), <BR>> "klosh"]<BR>>
as. asko. [large. grand. a great many (eds. "many fish finning here and <BR>>
there"), compare "hyas"]<BR>> makook [trading (eds. "to buy"),
"makook"]<BR>> apts sheetl [stealing (eds. "to hide"), "ipsoot," lost or
gone]<BR>> klyeoksheetl [to drive as a stake, compare CJ "kakshitl" (probably
a <BR>> different word but similar idea)]<BR>> mamook [weaving (eds.
"work"), "mamook"]<BR>> poohsheetl [blowing (eds. "blow once"),
"poh"]<BR>> week [not (eds. "no; not"), "wake"]<BR>> <BR>> From
Howay's edition of James Colnett's journal, 1789:<BR>> "peshak," "kapsualla"
[Martinez: "pisce," "capsil" (pp. 62,317)]<BR>> <BR>> Notes: Walker
obtained most of his words at Nootka Sound from women, as <BR>> he says on p.
88 of Fisher and Bumsted's edition. The editors state that <BR>> Walker's
effort was ultimately more thorough and accurate than the <BR>> earlier 1778
list. He also took a much more limited word list from <BR>> Prince William
Sound, which as can be expected does not relate well to <BR>> CJ. Two
interesting exceptions from Prince William Sound, however are <BR>> "makook"
and "week," and due to the limited nature of the list there may <BR>> have
been other words in common.<BR>> <BR>> see also<BR>> chamas (has been
discussed on list before)<BR>> <BR>> - Leanne<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Scott Tyler wrote:<BR>> <BR>>> Hi all,<BR>>>
Probably Kilcoolly Tyee is refering to tlookwalli which
is the <BR>>> main winter ceremonial of the Nootka/Makah.<BR>>> This
is the Wolf Dance ceremonial. Sounds like some is saying shoot a
<BR>>> gun (mamook pooh) to create noise which was sometimes<BR>>>
done to scare away the 'Lincod which was eating the moon (lunar
<BR>>> eclipse) or to scare away the Wolves who were caring away young
initiates<BR>>> into the klookwalli ceremonials (bull roarers were also
used) , or <BR>>> perhaps to scare away the cause of the earthquake 'the
great chief above'<BR>>> or 'the great light above'.<BR>>> I suppose
if they meant evil spirit they would have said 'mesatchie <BR>>>
tyee' or mesatchie tamanowas' but I do not know if they believed in <BR>>>
the dichotomy of the 'God of evil'<BR>>> and the 'God of good' we are
accustomed to since contact with others.<BR>>>
scott/ooshtaqi<BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David
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