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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">I
would like to thank all the people who answered my query about proverbs. The
various sources that were mentioned in their answers are listed at the end of
this message.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">An
interesting by-product of my original query has been the ongoing discussion on
what a corpus really is. Considering the wording I used </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">("the objective is to turn
the corpus into a data base that could be used as an aid for reading
comprehension"), I would indeed agree that the list I am intending to compile is
simply a data base and will be used as such.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">But by the same token, it
seems to me that the same data base would qualify as a corpus if one were to use
it to study, say, the use of determination or relative clauses in
proverbs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">The EAGLES initiative
definition which I found at the URL pointed to by John McNaught is interesting :
"</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">A
<EM>corpus</EM> is a collection of pieces of language that are selected and
ordered according to explicit linguistic criteria in order to be used as a
sample of the language."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">However,
"a sample of the language" leaves room for various interpretations, as does the
word "corpus" itself. In the same way that the word "body" has several meanings
("</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">the main
or central part", but also, "a mass or collection of material that is distinct
from other masses"), the sample could be representative of the language as a
whole, but also of only a small part of the language (in my case, popular
wisdom).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">Ultimately,
I think that most people's idea of what is (or isn't) a corpus boils down to
their conception of what is a valid method for data selection and extraction, as
was pointed out by Lou Burnard and Sabine Bartsch. And I would argue that as
long as selection criteria are coherent and the data to be extracted are a
"subcomponent" of the corpus (whether they are individual words or grammatical
structures), then the appellation can be justified, as long as no invalid claim
is made as to how representative of the language as a whole a given corpus
really is.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Finally, I would like to add
to the remarks made by David Powers and Ute Römer on what a "proverb" is. Oliver
Mason said that "[a corpus] wouldn't be a corpus any more once you meddle with
it, by eg extracting all proverbs". But what little research I have done on the
subject shows that such extraction is just not possible, unless you already have
such a list of proverbs at your disposal and start looking for occurrences of
original words that are part of them. What I also found, interestingly, is that
proverbs are seldom quoted verbatim, but rather slightly modified as an allusion
to a given situation. This is particularly true of their use in the titles of
magazine or newspaper articles (eg. "Charity begins
abroad").<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Once again, thanks to all
the participants in this interesting debate. To think that none of this would
have been possible 20 years ago…<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US> François MANIEZ<BR>Département de
Langues Étrangères Appliquées<BR>Centre de Recherche en Terminologie et en
Traduction<BR>Faculté des Langues<BR>Université Lyon II<BR><A
href="mailto:fmaniez@wanadoo.fr">fmaniez@wanadoo.fr</A><BR><A
href="mailto:maniezf@univ-lyon2.fr">maniezf@univ-lyon2.fr</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN">************************************************************<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">The following are snippets
taken from the various messages I received :<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A
href="http://www.shu.ac.uk/web-admin/phrases/list/">http://www.shu.ac.uk/web-admin/phrases/list/</A><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(not a very long list - but maybe it's a
start.)</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A
href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Author=Spears, Richard A./102-667273">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/Author=Spears%2C%20Richard%20A./102-667273</A><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(Richard Spears has written many
wonderful books on this topic already)</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="COLOR: black">Moon (1998) uses the
Oxford Hector Pilot Corpus to create a database of English fixed expressions and
idioms (including proverbs). It's an extremely interesting study. The reference
is: </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="COLOR: black">Moon, R. (1998).
<I>Fixed Expressions and Idioms in English</I>. Oxford: Clarendon
Press.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="COLOR: black">The following URLS
indicate where to purchase some electronic dictionaries :<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A
href="http://www.cup.cam.ac.uk/elt/reference/data.htm">http://www.cup.cam.ac.uk/elt/reference/data.htm</A>
(Cambridge International Dictionary of Idioms. This is available as SGML data
for prices from 300 pounds (university research use) to 3000 pounds (full
development licence).</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A
href="http://www.icp.grenet.fr/ELRA/catalog.html"><SPAN lang=FR
style="mso-ansi-language: FR">http://www.icp.grenet.fr/ELRA/catalog.html</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="mso-ansi-language: FR"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-ansi-language: FR">(dictionnaire bilingue français-anglais d'idiomes,
de proverbes et d'expressions générales).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ansi-language: FR"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><A
href="http://www.cup.org/esl/cdae">http://www.cup.org/esl/cdae</A> <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(Cambridge Dictionary of American
English, book and CD-ROM combined for only
$20.95)</SPAN></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>