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<TITLE>Re: Corpora: Apostrophes</TITLE>
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<DIV>I was pained to see Alex Fang's flame of Simon Smith's thoughtful
post.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Alex should read up on language vs. orthography, prescription vs.
description,</DIV>
<DIV>and other concepts that are covered in elementary linguistics courses,
before</DIV>
<DIV>issuing more flames.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Christopher Bader</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>-----Original Message----- <BR><B>From:</B> Alex Chengyu
Fang <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tue 12/18/2001 9:10 AM <BR><B>To:</B> Simon G. J. Smith;
corpora@hd.uib.no <BR><B>Cc:</B> <BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Corpora:
Apostrophes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>I'm sorry, Simon, but I think you've said a few</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>incorrect and confusing things:</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> I suppose when I referred to the status of 1L and
2L</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> English I was thinking more of the language
itself</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> than its orthographical representation,
but it</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Can you clarify on this please?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> certainly is interesting that native writers
cannot</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> agree on apostrophe/letter "s" usage. I
went to a</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>There is indeed some agreement on the use of</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>apostrophes.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> called "Thomas' Train" (of tank engine fame). If I</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> were guided by the pronunciation, I would write</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> "Lord Williams' School" and "Thomas's train"; so</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> presumably pronunciation has nothing to do with
it,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> and the alternatives are in arbitrary
free</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> variation.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Pronunciation has a lot to do with it. They both</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>should have a "s's" pronunciation. The correct</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>treatment of "Williams's" is muffled because of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>clumsy "s's" cluster when followed by "school". </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=2>> seems that the correct use of the apostrophe, in</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> British English at least, is not as cut and dried
as</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> one might suppose, so perhaps it is not
surprising</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> that people do sometimes make
mistakes. We manage</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>So you do think they are mistakes?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> quite satisfactorily without the apostrophe in</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> speech, since it serves no disambiguating
function;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> I expect eventually it will simply slip
out of use.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>It does serve some disambiguating function:</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>"Williams's" is singular and "Williams'" plural.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> 's tend to use that construction; in some such
cases</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> I think a native speaker would prefer a
noun</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> compound. Annoyingly, though, I can't think
of a</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> convincing example.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>"Learner dictionary" would be a good example, for both</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>English and Chinese.</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Regards,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Alex</FONT> </P><BR>
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