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Dear all<br>
<br>
I agree with everyone, but maybe I'm just that kind of guy!<br>
<br>
Firstly, I'm sure there is more out there which we (or at least I)
simply don't know about - hence my initial mail. On the other hand I
don't think there's anything like as much as one might have expected
20-odd years down the road. (Unfortunately I'm a late-comer to the
scene, otherwise I might be quoting Wordsworth: "Bliss was it in that
dawn to be alive...")<br>
<br>
I certainly agree with Martin that there's likely to be a single
explanation for the
(relative) lack of (public) uptake; a number of interesting reasons
have been given in these exchanges as well as in response to my first
mail, & others still in various research articles. A common
reaction seems to be that DDL as currently advocated depends on a lot
of factors that can't reasonably be expected in "normal" working
conditions - of regular teachers and learners, not to mention common
resources & environments. My feeling is that "off-the-peg"
materials may go some way towards making DDL more accessible, though
given the small quantities I (you!) have unearthed I'll have to think
about it some more, but will hopefully work this into a proper paper
some time.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
alex<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Martin Wynne a écrit :
<blockquote cite="mid:480622FC.9000807@oucs.ox.ac.uk" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I very much agree with Gill's observations. Looking what is freely
available on the web is not a good way to judge the uptake or range of
DDL materials. As Gill points out, most DDL resources and courses are
only deployed locally.
To get something useful out on the web, you need to sort out the
following (to name but a few):
- getting it on a web server
- basing it on web technologies
- get it to work with the available back end technologies on your server
- make sure that it is accessible and works with a variety of browsers
- make sure it is robust and bug-free
- support by the web server's sysadmin
- the exercises need to be suitable for unsupervised work (which
requires a lot more documentation, explanation, hand-holding, controlled
revealing of results, tips and hints, etc)
- be prepared to support users, or leave them in the lurch if they hit snags
- ensure that you are not getting into any legal or ethical difficulties
if you publish any of the the materials (in short, you're not likely to
be allowed to put that corpus online...)
So getting your course materials to work on your students' PCs is one
thing, putting them on the web may involve a lot of additional challenges.
Obviously there are huge potential advantages to putting materials on
the web, but we shouldn't be surprised that not everyone does it.
Martin
Gill Philip wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">dear all,
I think Adam is partially right, but, as someone who does engage in DDL, I'd
like to point out another couple of reasons why there is so little "out
there":
(i) many materials are created for individuals or small groups and therefore
not put online/published as 'general' language notes; and
(ii) others are created on the fly in real time, and so never even make it
into a paper format, i.e. the concordances are put up on screen in class and
the teacher (me, but I'm sure others do the same) leads students through the
analysis. Once I get the interactive whiteboard up and running, such ad-hoc
exercises may well become more amenable to digital archiving, but for now
they remain ephemeral.
best,
Gill
On 16/04/2008, Adam Kilgarriff <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:adam@lexmasterclass.com"><adam@lexmasterclass.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear Alex,
you say
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> Is there really so little out there? Why?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I think the reason is simple: Concordances are too tough for learners.
So DDL has not taken off. After 20 years, it remains a tiny minority
interest.
Our response is to select corpus sentences according to readability.
The beta version of the Sketch Engine now has an option to sort
concordances
"best first", from a learner's point of view, and we are working on other
ways of
using corpora in language learning in which we only show
users sentences which they are likely to be able to read and understand.
Adam
2008/4/15 Alex Boulton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Alex.Boulton@univ-nancy2.fr"><Alex.Boulton@univ-nancy2.fr></a>:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Dear all
I recently requested information on any *published materials* or *on-line
materials*
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""> adopting a data-driven learning approach. My thanks to the following for
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">their replies:
- Adam Turner
- Chris Tribble
- Mike Barlow
- Brett Reynolds
- Stéphanie O'Riordan
- Antoinette Renouf
- James Thomas
- Linda Bawcom
- Marcia Veirano Pinto
- Przemek Kaszubski
- Simon Smith
- John Milton
Unfortunately (if unsurprisingly), there were no real additions to the
publications
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""> I listed in the original mail. Is there really so little out there? Why?
...
--
================================================
Adam Kilgarriff <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.kilgarriff.co.uk">http://www.kilgarriff.co.uk</a>
Lexical Computing Ltd <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sketchengine.co.uk">http://www.sketchengine.co.uk</a>
Lexicography MasterClass Ltd <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.lexmasterclass.com">http://www.lexmasterclass.com</a>
Universities of Leeds and Sussex <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:adam@lexmasterclass.com">adam@lexmasterclass.com</a>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b style=""><span
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</span>Alex
Boulton<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family: Arial;"><span
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</span>Nancy
Université<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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