<FONT face="Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" size=2><div><font size="2" face="Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">In
India where the states that comprise the country are language-based as
opposed to dialect-based, we would say a language is one that has a
Chief Minister attached to it.<br>Shekhar<br></font></div><font color="#990099">-----corpora-bounces@uib.no wrote: -----<br><br></font><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid #000000; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">To: "Angus Grieve-Smith" <grvsmth@panix.com>, "Corpora list" <corpora@uib.no><br>From: "Paula Newman" <paulan@earthlink.net><br>Sent by: corpora-bounces@uib.no<br>Date: 02/15/2010 03:09PM<br>Subject: Re: [Corpora-List] Can corpora help to distinguish a dialect and a language?<br><br><font size="3" face="Courier New,Courier,monospace"><br>Hi,<br>This is a funny discussion. Why? Because it indicates that the Weinreich<br>quote was originally given in Yiddish, definitely a language, not a dialect<br>of German, but never having an army or navy, or much political power.<br><br>That Yiddish is a separate language that amalgamates German syntax (albeit<br>dialect syntax) with many borrowings is directly indicated by the included<br>quote <br>>Assaf, "A halber emes iz a gantse lign."<br>(A half truth is a whole lie).<br><br>The sentence is not intelligible to a monolingual German speaker except by<br>guessing--some examples: "emes" is the Hebrew word for truth, and "lign"<br>seems to be a Germanization of the English ambiguity between lie<br>(n-untruth, v-tell an untruth) and lay (v-place, v-locate).<br><br>Also, Yiddish is normatively written in Hebrew script rather than Latin<br>script.<br><br>Possibly a better definition of the distinction between a dialect and a<br>language would focus on the amount of difference between the purported base<br>language and the dialect, possibly indicated by mutual intelligibility.<br><br>Paula<br><br><br>> [Original Message]<br>> From: Angus Grieve-Smith <grvsmth@panix.com><br>> To: Corpora list <corpora@uib.no><br>> Date: 2/15/2010 11:16:48 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [Corpora-List] Can corpora help to distinguish a dialect and<br>alanguage?<br>><br>> Seth, how do you expect us to take a pronouncement like that, with no<br>supporting documentation?<br><br>Diana, I think the one-army thing is a minimum. The Catalan exception shows<br>that it's actually political power, not military power, that matters.<br><br>Seth Grimes <grimes@altaplana.com> wrote:<br><br>>Clever notion but not correct, not even figuratively.<br>> ><br>> >Assaf, "A halber emes iz a gantse lign."<br>> ><br>> > Seth<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> >On Mon, 15 Feb 2010, Assaf Urieli wrote:<br>> ><br>> >> You took the words right out of my mouth Angus. Anybody who wants a<br>scan <br>> >> of the text containing the original quote from Max Weinreich (for<br>those <br>> >> of you who can read Yiddish!) may contact me.<br>> >><br>> >> The context is - Yiddish linguist Max Weinreich was giving a lecture <br>> >> about problems in the history of the Yiddish language, when a <br>> >> high-school teacher asked him "What is the difference between a<br>dialect <br>> >> and a language?" Max Weinreich tried to give an intellectual answer,<br>but <br>> >> the teacher interrupted him, "All of this I know already, but I'll<br>give <br>> >> you a better definition: a language is a dialect with an army and a <br>> >> navy." (a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un a flot)<br>> >><br>> >> Rgds,<br>> >> Assaf Urieli<br>> >><br>> >> Angus Grieve-Smith wrote:<br>> >>> On 2/13/2010 4:35 PM, Yuri Tambovtsev wrote:<br>> >>>> Dear Corpora colleagues, how can corpora help to differentiate<br>between a <br>> >>>> dialect and a language? Looking forward to hearing from you directly<br>to <br>> >>>> yutamb@mail.ru <<a href="mailto:yutamb@mail.ru">mailto:yutamb@mail.ru</a>> Yours sincerely as ever Yuri <br>> >>>> Tambovtsev<br>> >>>><br>> >>> They can't, because they can't detect whether the variety in <br>> >>> question has an army or a navy.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> --<br>> >>> <span> </span> <span> </span> <span> </span> <span> </span> -Angus B. Grieve-Smith<br>> >>> <span> </span> <span> </span> <span> </span> <span> </span> grvsmth@panix.com<br>> <br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Corpora mailing list<br>Corpora@uib.no<br><a href="http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora">http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora</a><br></font>
</blockquote><br></FONT>