Otto and others,<br><br><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow';font-size:13px"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">> so I wonder </font></span><span style="font-family:Arial">how the choice of including / excluding words is made</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow';font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:Arial"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow';font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Arial">if you are serious about it, come to the lexicom workshop where it is addressed thoroughly, by Michael Rundell, who has made thousands of these decisions, as chief editor for first Longman, now Macmillan dictionaries.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow';font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:Arial"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow';font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:Arial">It is a five day course in lexicography and corpus linguistics, now in its 13th year.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow';font-size:13px">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">- Kivik, Sweden</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow';font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:Arial">- </span><font face="Arial" style="font-size:small"><a href="http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/lexicom2013/">http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/lexicom2013/</a></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font face="Arial"><br></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font face="Arial">Adam</font></p><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 6 March 2013 20:23, Otto Lassen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:otto@lassen.mail.dk" target="_blank">otto@lassen.mail.dk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial Narrow'">
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">Eric Atwell<span> </span>started a discussion 28.2 about how
</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">vocabulary related
to Islam figures in British dictionaries </font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">and corpora.
</font></span><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">He found one word, "tajweed", which did not figure.</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">But there are many
islamic words in the dictionaries </font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">and many which are
not in the dictionaries, so I wonder</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">how the choice of
including / excluding words is made </font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">and what are the
effect of this choice on the users?</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">I tried with
another word, "kafir" (or “kaffir”), which </font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">means infidel,
</font></span><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">disbeliever, unbeliever.</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">You find it in the
online versions of Oxford English Dictionary </font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">and Collins English
Dictionary but not in Longman </font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">Dicitionary of
Contemporary English nor in British National Corpus.</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">The encyclopedias
(Britannica, Wikipedia) have it naturally.</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">So why is "kafir"
better represented than "tajweed"?</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">A proposal for a solution could be
that "kafir" is used in </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">the Qur'an many times. In Shakir's
translation there are </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">400 hits for disbeliev.. and
unbeliev..... For every 3 pages </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">2 has them The contrast between
believers and </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">unbelievers is in that way basic for
the Qur'an and </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">for its influence on the readers.
Unbelievers are described </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">very negatively. The concept of
"kafir" is part of the belief </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">of the 5% muslims in </span><span lang="EN-GB">England</span><span lang="EN-GB"> but must be known by
</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">everybody because it concerns all.
Therefore the </span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">choice of "kafir" to the
dictionaries. “Tajweed" tells only</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><span lang="EN-GB">how to recite verses from the
Qur’an.</span></font></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">But this may not be
the only explanation of the choice</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">of including /
excluding islamic words in dictionaries.</font></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">Regards</font></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><font face="Arial">Otto
Lassen</font></span></p></font></span></div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>========================================<br><a href="http://www.kilgarriff.co.uk/" target="_blank">Adam Kilgarriff</a> <a href="mailto:adam@lexmasterclass.com" target="_blank">adam@lexmasterclass.com</a> <br>
Director <a href="http://www.sketchengine.co.uk/" target="_blank">Lexical Computing Ltd</a> <br>Visiting Research Fellow <a href="http://leeds.ac.uk" target="_blank">University of Leeds</a> <div>
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