<div dir="ltr">What? Why would distributional methods be contrary to prototypes (I prefer calling them archetypes--earlier I was under the influence of Spanish)? Let me know what I'm missing here.<div><br></div><div>Jim</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>James L. Fidelholtz<br>Posgrado en Ciencias del Lenguaje<br>Instituto de Ciencias Sociales y Humanidades<br>Benemérita Universidad Autónoma de Puebla, MÉXICO</div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Ken Litkowski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ken@clres.com" target="_blank">ken@clres.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<tt>I wonder if distributional methods used in computational
linguistics are consistent with or contrary to prototypes (Patrick's
syntagmatic patterns).<br>
<br>
</tt><div><div class="h5">
<div>On 6/28/2014 3:00 PM, Geoffrey Williams
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Hi Angus,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not believe he ever used the word. It is possibly more
Patrick who called them thus. We can only wait for Patrick to
weigh in with an answer, or maybe Bill Louw as he is more
philosophically read than I.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Geoffrey</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>Le 28 juin 2014 à 20:46, Angus B. Grieve-Smith <<a href="mailto:grvsmth@panix.com" target="_blank">grvsmth@panix.com</a>>
a écrit :</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div> Rosch definitely built on
Wittgenstein. I know Wittgenstein talked about family
resemblances, but I don't know where he talked about
prototypes. I discuss his example of "games" here:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://grieve-smith.com/blog/2013/02/in-a-wittgensteinian-sort-of-way/" target="_blank">http://grieve-smith.com/blog/2013/02/in-a-wittgensteinian-sort-of-way/</a><br>
<br>
Thanks for the pointeres to Hanks' work!<br>
<br>
On 06/28/2014 02:04 PM, Geoffrey Williams wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
Hi,`
<div><br>
<div>In discussing Patrick, I think you should realize
that he was basing his prototypes on Wittgenstein,
not Rosch. The articles where he discusses these
are:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div title="Page 23">
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:MinionPro">Hanks, P. 1994. Linguistic
norms and pragmatic exploitations or,
why lexicographers need pro</span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:MinionPro">totype theory, and vice
versa. </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:MinionPro;font-style:italic">Papers in Computational
Lexicography: Complex </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:MinionPro">94: 89–113.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
and<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div title="Page 23">
<div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:MinionPro">Hanks, P. 2000. Do word
meanings exist? </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:MinionPro;font-style:italic">Computers
and the Humanities </span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:MinionPro">34(1–2): 205–215. </span></p>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The aim was to create lexicographical prototypes to
deal with polysemy by having a continuum of
variations of meaning. I have used this myself in
collocational resonance, something I share with
Patrick, and multilingual prototypes for variations
across genres and across languages.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You need to read Wittgenstein’s Philosophical
Investigations, rather than the Tractatus, for
family resemblances, notably with a discussion go
‘game’.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Geoffrey</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Le 28 juin 2014 à 11:00, Krishnamurthy, Ramesh
<<a href="mailto:r.krishnamurthy@aston.ac.uk" target="_blank">r.krishnamurthy@aston.ac.uk</a>>
a écrit :</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hi Erin/Alex<br>
Apologies to all for hitting 'send' before inserting
the subject line in my previous email....<br>
<br>
One additional point: I was interested to see,
glancing through the occurrences of 'prototypical'
in<br>
009_2004_V1_Patrick HANKS_Corpus pattern ... -
Euralex<<a href="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.euralex.org%2Felx_proceedings%2FEuralex2004%2F009_2004_V1_Patrick%2520HANKS_Corpus%2520pattern%2520analysis.pdf&ei=9n2uU-e4Hu2g7AadnYCADA&usg=AFQjCNGtE5j1N-FunxRyaCWmROMIYFk_Ng&bvm=bv.69837884,d.ZGU" target="_blank">http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.euralex.org%2Felx_proceedings%2FEuralex2004%2F009_2004_V1_Patrick%2520HANKS_Corpus%2520pattern%2520analysis.pdf&ei=9n2uU-e4Hu2g7AadnYCADA&usg=AFQjCNGtE5j1N-FunxRyaCWmROMIYFk_Ng&bvm=bv.69837884,d.ZGU</a>><a href="http://www.euralex.org/.../009_2004_V1_Patrick%20HANKS_Corpus%20patt" target="_blank">www.euralex.org/.../009_2004_V1_Patrick%20HANKS_Corpus%20patt</a>...<br>
that he *rarely* used it *in the way that Erin
specified*, namely "the most central use of a
word"....<br>
<br>
Instead , i noticed it was mostly 'prototypical
syntagmatic *patterns*, prototypical *usage*,
prototypical *direct objects*, etc',<br>
i.e. linguistic items/features at higher levels of
abstraction than 'word senses'.<br>
<br>
I didn't look carefully enough, so there may a
citation in Erin's limited sense, but if not,
perhaps Patrick was, consciously<br>
or subconsciously, telling us something about his
understanding of the relationship between
'prototypes' and 'word senses'?<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">From various conversations
with Patrick, i remember the names Jackendoff,
Rosch, and Wierzbicka came up in connection with<br>
</blockquote>
prototype theory, but i can't remember any details,
i'm afraid...<br>
<br>
best<br>
ramesh<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------<br>
Dear all<br>
<br>
Various bits of discussion on this in several places
in Patrick's 2013 book, including around pp90-105
and 340, but it's pretty much what the whole book is
about - norms (cf prototypes) not just of lexis but
of pretty much any type of language use, and
exploitations.<br>
<br>
* Hanks, P. 2013. Lexical Analysis: Norms and
Exploitations . Cambridge MA: MIT Press.<br>
<br>
Some great quotes too, eg p91-92 " Prototypical,
normal usage is very easy to spot?; it is also very
boring."<br>
<br>
Best<br>
alex<br>
<br>
_____________________________<br>
Alex Boulton<br>
<br>
Professor of English and Applied Linguistics<br>
<br>
Université de Lorraine : Pearl, Erudi, Dépt
d'anglais<br>
<br>
homepage : <a href="http://bit.ly/BoultonATILF" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/BoultonATILF</a><br>
<br>
Responsable équipe Didactique (Crapel)<br>
Atilf : CNRS, UL<br>
( +33) 03 54 50 51 06<br>
<br>
ReCALL, Eurocall, Geras, TaLC<br>
----- Mail original -----<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">De: "Erin McKean" <<a href="mailto:erin@logocracy.com" target="_blank">erin@logocracy.com</a>><br>
À: <a href="mailto:corpora@uib.no" target="_blank">corpora@uib.no</a><br>
Envoyé: Samedi 28 Juin 2014 03:26:25<br>
Objet: [Corpora-List] examples of the use of the
terms "prototypical"<br>
or "prototypicality"<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear Corpora-Lers,<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Does anyone have handy
citations for the use of "prototypical" or<br>
"prototypicality" in corpus linguistics to mean
something roughly<br>
equivalent to "the most central use of a word,
especially in regards<br>
to<br>
referents or collocations"?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I'm thinking of the case
where you describe senses of a word in an<br>
order<br>
that roughly maps to "core -- periphery" rather
than historical order<br>
or<br>
frequency of use. E.g. for things like "cask", the
"water-tight<br>
vessel"<br>
would be a more prototypical sense than the "unit
of capacity for<br>
what<br>
can be held in a cask" sense.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">My feeling is that this is
described quite beautifully by Patrick<br>
Hanks<br>
somewhere but I can't seem to find a reference!<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Any help gratefully
appreciated!<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Yours,<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Erin<br>
---------------------<br>
Erin McKean<br>
@emckean/@reverb/@wordnik<br>
<a href="http://wordnik.com/" target="_blank">wordnik.com</a><br>
<a href="http://helloreverb.com" target="_blank">helloreverb.com</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Krishnamurthy, Ramesh<br>
Sent: 28 June 2014 09:44<br>
To: <a href="mailto:erin@logocracy.com" target="_blank">erin@logocracy.com</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:corpora@uib.no" target="_blank">corpora@uib.no</a><br>
Subject:<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Erin<br>
<br>
I just typed 'hanks prototypical' into Google and
obtained several hits...<br>
<br>
#1 The website at seems to be down at the moment,<br>
but there is at least one citation at
<a href="http://nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/cpa/" target="_blank">nlp.fi.muni.cz/projekty/cpa/</a><br>
<br>
#2 one of the google hits was patrick hanks's paper
at:<br>
009_2004_V1_Patrick HANKS_Corpus pattern ... -
Euralex<<a href="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.euralex.org%2Felx_proceedings%2FEuralex2004%2F009_2004_V1_Patrick%2520HANKS_Corpus%2520pattern%2520analysis.pdf&ei=9n2uU-e4Hu2g7AadnYCADA&usg=AFQjCNGtE5j1N-FunxRyaCWmROMIYFk_Ng&bvm=bv.69837884,d.ZGU" target="_blank">http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.euralex.org%2Felx_proceedings%2FEuralex2004%2F009_2004_V1_Patrick%2520HANKS_Corpus%2520pattern%2520analysis.pdf&ei=9n2uU-e4Hu2g7AadnYCADA&usg=AFQjCNGtE5j1N-FunxRyaCWmROMIYFk_Ng&bvm=bv.69837884,d.ZGU</a>><a href="http://www.euralex.org/.../009_2004_V1_Patrick%20HANKS_Corpus%20patt" target="_blank">www.euralex.org/.../009_2004_V1_Patrick%20HANKS_Corpus%20patt</a>...<br>
<br>
#3 this paper's list of references includes:<br>
Hanks, Patrick. 1994. 'Linguistic Norms and
Pragmatic Explanations, or Why<br>
Lexicographers need Prototype Theory and Vice Versa'
in F. Kiefer, G. Kiss, and J.<br>
Pajzs (eds.), Papers in Computational Lexicography:
Complex '94. Research institute<br>
for Linguistics, Hungarian Academy of Sciences.<br>
<br>
#4 Google Scholar offers 4,950 hits for 'hanks
prototypical'<br>
<br>
best<br>
ramesh<br>
---------------<br>
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 18:26:25 -0700<br>
From: Erin McKean <<a href="mailto:erin@logocracy.com" target="_blank">erin@logocracy.com</a>><br>
Subject: [Corpora-List] examples of the use of the
terms<br>
"prototypical" or "prototypicality"<br>
To: <a href="mailto:corpora@uib.no" target="_blank">corpora@uib.no</a><br>
<br>
Dear Corpora-Lers,<br>
<br>
Does anyone have handy citations for the use of
"prototypical" or<br>
"prototypicality" in corpus linguistics to mean
something roughly<br>
equivalent to "the most central use of a word,
especially in regards to<br>
referents or collocations"?<br>
<br>
I'm thinking of the case where you describe senses
of a word in an order<br>
that roughly maps to "core -- periphery" rather than
historical order or<br>
frequency of use. E.g. for things like "cask", the
"water-tight vessel"<br>
would be a more prototypical sense than the "unit of
capacity for what<br>
can be held in a cask" sense.<br>
<br>
My feeling is that this is described quite
beautifully by Patrick Hanks<br>
somewhere but I can't seem to find a reference!<br>
<br>
Any help gratefully appreciated!<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
<br>
Erin<br>
---------------------<br>
Erin McKean<br>
@emckean/@reverb/@wordnik<br>
<a href="http://wordnik.com/" target="_blank">wordnik.com</a><br>
<a href="http://helloreverb.com" target="_blank">helloreverb.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: <a href="http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora</a><br>
Corpora mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Corpora@uib.no" target="_blank">Corpora@uib.no</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<p style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px"><strong>Professor
Geoffrey WILLIAMS. MSc, PhD </strong><i><br>
Director of Department for Document
Management / Directeur du Département
d'Ingénierie du document<br>
Director of Master in Publishing and
Digital Humanities / Directeur du Master
Métiers du Livre et les Humanités
Numériques<br>
LiCoRN : <a href="http://www.licorn-ubs.com/" target="_blank">www.licorn-ubs.com</a> / <a href="http://www.evalhum.eu/" target="_blank">www.evalhum.eu</a> /
Twitter @EvalHum / EvalHum on Facebook </i></span><br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<span><a href="mailto:geoffrey.williams@univ-ubs.fr" target="_blank">geoffrey.williams@univ-ubs.fr</a> <br>
tél. +33 (0)2 97 87 29 20 - fax. +33 (0)2 97
87 29 31 <br>
Faculté de Lettres Langues Sciences
Humaines <br>
et Sociales (LSHS) <br>
4 rue Jean Zay <br>
BP92113, 56321 LORIENT CEDEX<br>
UNIVERSITÉ DE BRETAGNE-SUD <br>
<a href="http://www.univ-ubs.fr/" target="_blank">www.univ-ubs.fr</a> / <a href="http://www.licorn-ubs.com/" target="_blank">www.licorn-ubs.com</a><br>
</span></span></p>
<hr style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);width:749px;min-height:2px"><small style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-style:italic">Ce message est
confidentiel. Que vous l’ayez reçu par erreur ou
que vous en soyez le ou la destinataire, vous
êtes prié de ne pas en divulguer le contenu. </small><br style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
<div><small style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-style:italic"><br>
</small></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: <a href="http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora</a>
Corpora mailing list
<a href="mailto:Corpora@uib.no" target="_blank">Corpora@uib.no</a>
<a href="http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Angus B. Grieve-Smith
<a href="mailto:grvsmth@panix.com" target="_blank">grvsmth@panix.com</a></pre>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: <a href="http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora</a><br>
Corpora mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Corpora@uib.no" target="_blank">Corpora@uib.no</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<p style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px"><strong>Professor Geoffrey WILLIAMS. MSc,
PhD </strong><i><br>
Director of Department for Document Management /
Directeur du Département d'Ingénierie du document<br>
Director of Master in Publishing and Digital
Humanities / Directeur du Master Métiers du Livre
et les Humanités Numériques<br>
LiCoRN : <a href="http://www.licorn-ubs.com" target="_blank">www.licorn-ubs.com</a> / <a href="http://www.evalhum.eu" target="_blank">www.evalhum.eu</a> /
Twitter @EvalHum / EvalHum on Facebook </i></span><br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<span><a href="mailto:geoffrey.williams@univ-ubs.fr" target="_blank">geoffrey.williams@univ-ubs.fr</a> <br>
tél. +33 (0)2 97 87 29 20 - fax. +33 (0)2 97 87 29
31 <br>
Faculté de Lettres Langues Sciences Humaines <br>
et Sociales (LSHS) <br>
4 rue Jean Zay <br>
BP92113, 56321 LORIENT CEDEX<br>
UNIVERSITÉ DE BRETAGNE-SUD <br>
<a href="http://www.univ-ubs.fr" target="_blank">www.univ-ubs.fr</a> / <a href="http://www.licorn-ubs.com" target="_blank">www.licorn-ubs.com</a><br>
</span></span></p>
<hr style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);width:749px;min-height:2px"><small style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-style:italic">Ce message est
confidentiel. Que vous l’ayez reçu par erreur ou que
vous en soyez le ou la destinataire, vous êtes prié de
ne pas en divulguer le contenu. </small><br style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div>
<div><small style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-style:italic"><br>
</small></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: <a href="http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora</a>
Corpora mailing list
<a href="mailto:Corpora@uib.no" target="_blank">Corpora@uib.no</a>
<a href="http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><pre cols="72">--
Ken Litkowski TEL.: 301-482-0237
CL Research EMAIL: <a href="mailto:ken@clres.com" target="_blank">ken@clres.com</a>
9208 Gue Road Home Page: <a href="http://www.clres.com" target="_blank">http://www.clres.com</a>
Damascus, MD 20872-1025 USA Blog: <a href="http://www.clres.com/blog" target="_blank">http://www.clres.com/blog</a>
</pre>
</font></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: <a href="http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora</a><br>
Corpora mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Corpora@uib.no">Corpora@uib.no</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora" target="_blank">http://mailman.uib.no/listinfo/corpora</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>