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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would like to have my name removed from this
list. How do I go about doing that? </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=maureenmatarese@yahoo.com
href="mailto:maureenmatarese@yahoo.com">Maureen T. Matarese</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
href="mailto:edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 14, 2004 4:08 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [EDLING:205] Re: L2 in US
Schools</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Bernard,</DIV>
<DIV>A clarification question: are you saying that it IS easy to persuade
multilingual immigrants that monolinguism in English is good, or were you
questioning whether it is or isn't?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>-Maureen<BR><BR><B><I>Bernard Spolsky <<A
href="mailto:spolsb@mail.biu.ac.il">spolsb@mail.biu.ac.il</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">But
going in the other directions, it seems quiet quick to persuade
the<BR>children of multilingual immigrants that monolingualism in English is
a good<BR>thing? And universities? How many universities in English
speaking<BR>countries demand that their students have serious foreign
language<BR>proficiency?<BR>Bernard<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From:
owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>[mailto:owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu]
On Behalf Of Richard Hudson<BR>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:31 PM<BR>To:
edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>Subject: [EDLING:199] Re: L2 in US
Schools<BR><BR><BR>Dear Bernard,<BR>I see what you mean. Sure - changing
attitudes is a major challenge, and <BR>one thing is clear: it takes time.
Probably measured in generations rather <BR>than years. And another thing:
it takes concerted action across the board, <BR>not just concentrated in
schools. Universi! ties have a major role in this, <BR>as the trainers of
future teachers.<BR>Best wishes, Dick<BR><BR>At 11:15 14/05/2004, you
wrote:<BR>>I was certainly impressed by the activity, but it is a very
<BR>>bureaucratic public relations type site. I continue to wonder if
<BR>>anyone has found a way to change public beliefs. Or, obviously, the
<BR>>belief of teachers that it is worth becoming FL teachers. Our local
<BR>>director general had a simple answer: surely any primary teacher can
<BR>>teach all the English that primary children need! Seriously, how
might <BR>>one go about establishing (or re-establishing) the valuing of
<BR>>multilingualism in monolingual societies?
Bernard<BR>><BR>>-----Original Message-----<BR>>From:
owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
<BR>>[mailto:owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
Hudson<BR>>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:01 AM<BR>>To:
edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>>Subject: [EDLING:197] Re: L2 in US
Schools<BR>><BR>><BR>>Dear Bernard,<BR>>Thanks. I'm surprised it
struck you that way. I don't know about <BR>>attracting and persuading
since I've not looked at it from that point <BR>>of view. You may well be
right. The main function is to report <BR>>activity, of which as you say
there's quite a lot. All I can say is <BR>>that FL have much higher
profile now than they did a few years ago, and <BR>>that there are quite
a lot more resources for it and a clearer plan. <BR>>The resources for FL
are far less than for literacy, and may not be <BR>>enough to turn the
situation round. The planning is generally good. The <BR>>main block is
the supply of teachers, which has very little hope of <BR>>hitting the
target of one FL teacher per primary school by 2010.<BR>> Best wishes,
Dick<BR>><BR>>At 04:04 14/05/2004, you wrote:<BR>> >Dick<BR>>
>I looked quickly at the site, and was impressed by it verbiage (and
<BR>> >s! pelling mistakes). There is plenty of activity. But who will
it <BR>> >attract? Or convince? Bernard<BR>> ><BR>>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>> >From:
owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu <BR>>
>[mailto:owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
Hudson<BR>> >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:05 PM<BR>> >To:
edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>> >Subject: [EDLING:193] Re: L2 in US
Schools<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >Much the same debate has been
going on for some time in the UK, <BR>> >because of similar problems
in our education system. In fact, it's <BR>> >very easy to see that
the situation has got worse in the last ten <BR>> >years - fewer
16-year olds opting for languages in the last two years <BR>> >of
school, fewer going on to university to study languages (with <BR>>
>disastrous effects on language depts at university), and (therefore)
<BR>> >fewer graduates training as language teac! hers, so fewer (and
worse) <BR>> >language teachers in school, so fewer 16-year olds
opting for <BR>> >languages .... But the government (whose head,
incidentally, can <BR>> >speak fluent French) is trying hard to
reverse the trend. There's <BR>> >quite a lot of information about
what they're doing at<BR>http://www.dfes.gov.uk/languages/.<BR>> >
Incidentally, one interesting fact that's emerged from the <BR>>
>various inquiries into the problem has been that the Republic of
<BR>> >Ireland, which (of<BR>> >course) is also an
English-speaking country, does not have the same <BR>> >problem. With
a tenth of our population, they have the same number of <BR>>
>school-leavers specialising in languages. (But more recently, I'm
<BR>> >told, the rot has been setting in, which is disappointing.) So
much <BR>> >for the argument that our national unconcern about foreign
languages <BR>> >is the inevitable consequence of! the dominance of
English.<BR>> > Dick Hudson<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >At
19:07 13/05/2004, you wrote:<BR>> > >Well, although we don't have
these expectations in the foreign <BR>> > >language classroom--the
question is why (as B. Spolsky mentioned as <BR>> > >well<BR>>on
the<BR>> > >listserv). Why is it seemingly unimportant for a
country that has so<BR>> > >many immigrant populations to be fluent
in those other languages? <BR>> > >Why are Spanish-English dual
language programs so stigmatized? Why <BR>> > >is multilingualism
not seen as an asset in the hiring process (for <BR>> > >some it
is--but not categorically)? I would like to live to see <BR>> >
>the day when we have a leader who is educated enough to respond in
<BR>> > >French and then translate his response for the other
reporters. <BR>> > >That'll be the day.<BR>> > ><BR>>
> >At AAAL! , I was struck by one presentation in particular that
began <BR>> > >in the speaker's mother tongue. She mentioned how
important it was <BR>> > >to align herself with her country and
culture by beginning this <BR>> > >way. Although she had to present
her paper in English--it was <BR>> > >important that she make the
listeners aware of how this English <BR>> > >presentation affects
how she is viewed within her own culture. A <BR>> > >growning,
"required" English fluency worldwide may be what is <BR>> >
>happening, but that doesn't make it right.<BR>> > ><BR>>
> >So we come back to how to really start changing these long-held
<BR>> > >ideologies. In a globalizing world--is it not better to
make <BR>> > >relations more close by showing alliance through
language learning <BR>> > >and fluency?<BR>> > ><BR>>
> >-Maureen (Mo)<BR>> > ><BR>> > >"Haro! ld F.
Schiffman" <HAROLDFS@CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU>wrote: I think <BR>> > >Leo
VanLier identifies some of the issues that are crucial here. <BR>> >
>American linguistic culture just doesn't have the expectations and
<BR>> > >values about "foreign" language learning that others,
do.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >He says: d) as part of a successful
education, everyone was <BR>> > >expected to succeed in language
classes. [and] If there is one <BR>> > >ingredient that stands out
in my mind it is EXPECTATIONS. It was <BR>> > >simply expected that
an educated person spoke the three foreign <BR>> >
>languages....<BR>> > ><BR>> > >American linguistic
culture doesn't have these expectations, and <BR>> > >constantly
denigrates them. Did people notice what happened a while <BR>> >
>back when a reporter at a press conference held by GWB asked the
<BR>> > >French ambassador (foreign mi! nister, whatever) a
question in <BR>> > >French? GWB went ballistic, chewed out the
reporter, castigated <BR>> > >him, mocked him, ridiculed him. Sure
taught him a lesson!<BR>> > ><BR>> > >So much for the
value of language learning, and using it <BR>> >
>appropriately.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >H. Schiffman<BR>>
> ><BR>> > ><BR>> > >Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> >
>Yahoo! Movies - <BR>> > ><HTTP: movies.yahoo.com showtimes
movie?mid="1808405861">Buy advance <BR>> > >tickets for 'Shrek
2'<BR>> ><BR>> >Dick (Richard) Hudson, FBA<BR>> >Dept of
Phonetics and Linguistics,<BR>> >University College London, Gower
Street, London WC1E 6BT<BR>> >020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108;
<BR>> >www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm<BR>><BR>>Dick
(Richard) Hudson, FBA<BR>>Dept of Phonetics and
Linguistics,<BR>>University College London, Gower Street, London W! C1E
6BT<BR>>020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108;
www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm<BR><BR>Dick (Richard) Hudson,
FBA<BR>Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics,<BR>University College London,
Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT<BR>020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108;
www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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