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<DIV><SPAN class=640061618-15052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Maureen, I am saying that from the various cases I have looked at, the
move towards monolingual hegemony seems easier. The classic example is of
course Hebrew revival (I choose that because it is not a move to English), where
multilingual immigrants raised monolingual Hebrew speakers (who later added
English for other reasons). The struggle for Hebrew was certainly over
before the establishment of the state of Israel - there were campaigns for it
mainly in the 1930s. And of course in the US (and I assume UK), as Fishman
showed in his classic study, most immigrants who were allowed to integrate
shifted to English in a generation or so.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640061618-15052004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Bernard</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu [mailto:owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Maureen T. Matarese<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 14, 2004 11:09
PM<BR><B>To:</B> edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> [EDLING:205] Re:
L2 in US Schools<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Bernard,</DIV>
<DIV>A clarification question: are you saying that it IS easy to persuade
multilingual immigrants that monolinguism in English is good, or were you
questioning whether it is or isn't?</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>-Maureen<BR><BR><B><I>Bernard Spolsky
<spolsb@mail.biu.ac.il></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">But
going in the other directions, it seems quiet quick to persuade
the<BR>children of multilingual immigrants that monolingualism in English is
a good<BR>thing? And universities? How many universities in English
speaking<BR>countries demand that their students have serious foreign
language<BR>proficiency?<BR>Bernard<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From:
owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>[mailto:owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu]
On Behalf Of Richard Hudson<BR>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:31 PM<BR>To:
edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>Subject: [EDLING:199] Re: L2 in US
Schools<BR><BR><BR>Dear Bernard,<BR>I see what you mean. Sure - changing
attitudes is a major challenge, and <BR>one thing is clear: it takes time.
Probably measured in generations rather <BR>than years. And another thing:
it takes concerted action across the board, <BR>not just concentrated in
schools. Universi! ties have a major role in this, <BR>as the trainers of
future teachers.<BR>Best wishes, Dick<BR><BR>At 11:15 14/05/2004, you
wrote:<BR>>I was certainly impressed by the activity, but it is a very
<BR>>bureaucratic public relations type site. I continue to wonder if
<BR>>anyone has found a way to change public beliefs. Or, obviously, the
<BR>>belief of teachers that it is worth becoming FL teachers. Our local
<BR>>director general had a simple answer: surely any primary teacher can
<BR>>teach all the English that primary children need! Seriously, how
might <BR>>one go about establishing (or re-establishing) the valuing of
<BR>>multilingualism in monolingual societies?
Bernard<BR>><BR>>-----Original Message-----<BR>>From:
owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
<BR>>[mailto:owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
Hudson<BR>>Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:01 AM<BR>>To:
edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>>Subject: [EDLING:197] Re: L2 in US
Schools<BR>><BR>><BR>>Dear Bernard,<BR>>Thanks. I'm surprised it
struck you that way. I don't know about <BR>>attracting and persuading
since I've not looked at it from that point <BR>>of view. You may well be
right. The main function is to report <BR>>activity, of which as you say
there's quite a lot. All I can say is <BR>>that FL have much higher
profile now than they did a few years ago, and <BR>>that there are quite
a lot more resources for it and a clearer plan. <BR>>The resources for FL
are far less than for literacy, and may not be <BR>>enough to turn the
situation round. The planning is generally good. The <BR>>main block is
the supply of teachers, which has very little hope of <BR>>hitting the
target of one FL teacher per primary school by 2010.<BR>> Best wishes,
Dick<BR>><BR>>At 04:04 14/05/2004, you wrote:<BR>> >Dick<BR>>
>I looked quickly at the site, and was impressed by it verbiage (and
<BR>> >s! pelling mistakes). There is plenty of activity. But who will
it <BR>> >attract? Or convince? Bernard<BR>> ><BR>>
>-----Original Message-----<BR>> >From:
owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu <BR>>
>[mailto:owner-edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
Hudson<BR>> >Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:05 PM<BR>> >To:
edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR>> >Subject: [EDLING:193] Re: L2 in US
Schools<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >Much the same debate has been
going on for some time in the UK, <BR>> >because of similar problems
in our education system. In fact, it's <BR>> >very easy to see that
the situation has got worse in the last ten <BR>> >years - fewer
16-year olds opting for languages in the last two years <BR>> >of
school, fewer going on to university to study languages (with <BR>>
>disastrous effects on language depts at university), and (therefore)
<BR>> >fewer graduates training as language teac! hers, so fewer (and
worse) <BR>> >language teachers in school, so fewer 16-year olds
opting for <BR>> >languages .... But the government (whose head,
incidentally, can <BR>> >speak fluent French) is trying hard to
reverse the trend. There's <BR>> >quite a lot of information about
what they're doing at<BR>http://www.dfes.gov.uk/languages/.<BR>> >
Incidentally, one interesting fact that's emerged from the <BR>>
>various inquiries into the problem has been that the Republic of
<BR>> >Ireland, which (of<BR>> >course) is also an
English-speaking country, does not have the same <BR>> >problem. With
a tenth of our population, they have the same number of <BR>>
>school-leavers specialising in languages. (But more recently, I'm
<BR>> >told, the rot has been setting in, which is disappointing.) So
much <BR>> >for the argument that our national unconcern about foreign
languages <BR>> >is the inevitable consequence of! the dominance of
English.<BR>> > Dick Hudson<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> >At
19:07 13/05/2004, you wrote:<BR>> > >Well, although we don't have
these expectations in the foreign <BR>> > >language classroom--the
question is why (as B. Spolsky mentioned as <BR>> > >well<BR>>on
the<BR>> > >listserv). Why is it seemingly unimportant for a
country that has so<BR>> > >many immigrant populations to be fluent
in those other languages? <BR>> > >Why are Spanish-English dual
language programs so stigmatized? Why <BR>> > >is multilingualism
not seen as an asset in the hiring process (for <BR>> > >some it
is--but not categorically)? I would like to live to see <BR>> >
>the day when we have a leader who is educated enough to respond in
<BR>> > >French and then translate his response for the other
reporters. <BR>> > >That'll be the day.<BR>> > ><BR>>
> >At AAAL! , I was struck by one presentation in particular that
began <BR>> > >in the speaker's mother tongue. She mentioned how
important it was <BR>> > >to align herself with her country and
culture by beginning this <BR>> > >way. Although she had to present
her paper in English--it was <BR>> > >important that she make the
listeners aware of how this English <BR>> > >presentation affects
how she is viewed within her own culture. A <BR>> > >growning,
"required" English fluency worldwide may be what is <BR>> >
>happening, but that doesn't make it right.<BR>> > ><BR>>
> >So we come back to how to really start changing these long-held
<BR>> > >ideologies. In a globalizing world--is it not better to
make <BR>> > >relations more close by showing alliance through
language learning <BR>> > >and fluency?<BR>> > ><BR>>
> >-Maureen (Mo)<BR>> > ><BR>> > >"Haro! ld F.
Schiffman" <HAROLDFS@CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU>wrote: I think <BR>> > >Leo
VanLier identifies some of the issues that are crucial here. <BR>> >
>American linguistic culture just doesn't have the expectations and
<BR>> > >values about "foreign" language learning that others,
do.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >He says: d) as part of a successful
education, everyone was <BR>> > >expected to succeed in language
classes. [and] If there is one <BR>> > >ingredient that stands out
in my mind it is EXPECTATIONS. It was <BR>> > >simply expected that
an educated person spoke the three foreign <BR>> >
>languages....<BR>> > ><BR>> > >American linguistic
culture doesn't have these expectations, and <BR>> > >constantly
denigrates them. Did people notice what happened a while <BR>> >
>back when a reporter at a press conference held by GWB asked the
<BR>> > >French ambassador (foreign mi! nister, whatever) a
question in <BR>> > >French? GWB went ballistic, chewed out the
reporter, castigated <BR>> > >him, mocked him, ridiculed him. Sure
taught him a lesson!<BR>> > ><BR>> > >So much for the
value of language learning, and using it <BR>> >
>appropriately.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >H. Schiffman<BR>>
> ><BR>> > ><BR>> > >Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> >
>Yahoo! Movies - <BR>> > ><HTTP: movies.yahoo.com showtimes
movie?mid="1808405861">Buy advance <BR>> > >tickets for 'Shrek
2'<BR>> ><BR>> >Dick (Richard) Hudson, FBA<BR>> >Dept of
Phonetics and Linguistics,<BR>> >University College London, Gower
Street, London WC1E 6BT<BR>> >020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108;
<BR>> >www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm<BR>><BR>>Dick
(Richard) Hudson, FBA<BR>>Dept of Phonetics and
Linguistics,<BR>>University College London, Gower Street, London W! C1E
6BT<BR>>020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108;
www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm<BR><BR>Dick (Richard) Hudson,
FBA<BR>Dept of Phonetics and Linguistics,<BR>University College London,
Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT<BR>020 7679 3152; fax 020 7383 4108;
www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/home.htm <BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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