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--></style><title>Re: [EDLING:586] RE: Spanish
question</title></head><body>
<div>yup -- again</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>But the traditional grammarians who write prescriptive grammar
and usage texts for schools and the English teachers who use them see
this as a MAJOR FLAW -- nearly a capital offence -- equivalent to the
equally dreaded FRAGMENT. (My personal problem as a high school
student was not using a comma before a coordinating conjunction
joining two independent clauses -- also treated very seriously.)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The real world rarely follows such prescriptions, but everyone
remains anxious. Hence the popularity of Eats, Shoots and
Leaves.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>John</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I think another distinction in usage in
the US is between formal academic writing and other less formal
genres. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I believe you can find two
independent clauses connected with a comma in newspapers and magazines
rather commonly.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Can anyone out there confirm this?
(Maybe with a newspaper or magazine style guide?)<br>
<br>
<i><b>Miriam E Ebsworth <mee1@nyu.edu></b></i> wrote:<br>
<blockquote>I've also found that the famous comma splice is perfectly
fine in<br>
British English but can get you into big trouble in the good old
USA.<br>
My Anglo-Welsh spouse says we're 2 people separated by a common<br>
language.<br>
Yup.<br>
Miriam<br>
<br>
Miriam Eisenstein Ebsworth, Ph.D.<br>
<br>
Director of Doctoral Programs in Multilingual Multicultural
Studies<br>
New York University,635 East Building<br>
239 Greene St., New York, NY 10003<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: Federica Barbieri<br>
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:25 pm<br>
Subject: [EDLING:584] RE: Spanish question<br>
<br>
> I am a native speaker of Italian, and as far as I know, in<br>
> Italian, as in<br>
> Spanish, it is fine to connect two independant clauses with a<br>
> comma. I was<br>
> never taught that is is wrong and I have seen that many ti! mes
in<br>
> formal<br>
> written Italian (e.g., editorials and newspaper articles in
major<br>
> newspapers).<br>
> In fact I was surprised to see it marked as an error when I
firts<br>
> got here in<br>
> the States. My impression is that British English is more
flexible<br>
> than<br>
> American English in this respect (run-ons, etc.). I would
guess<br>
> that<br>
> punctuation is not universal and is culture-dependant...<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Federica<br>
><br>
><br>
> >===== Original Message From edling@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
=====<br>
> >(Apologies for multiple posts)<br>
> ><br>
> >In teaching English writing to international students, we
teach<br>
> that a<br>
> >sentence like:<br>
> >"I am a lawyer(,) it is a good job."<br>
> >is a "run-on" sentence (with or without the
comma).<br>
> >Reason = because two independent clauses/ simple sentences
like<br>
> these two<br>
> >halves ne! ed to be connected with some type of
coordinating<br>
> conjunction, or<br>
> >separated by a semi-colon or other sentence-final
punctuation.<br>
> Not the most<br>
> >eloquent explanation, but you get the picture.<br>
> ><br>
> >Over the years, I have had several (otherwise highly
educated)<br>
> Spanish-<br>
> >speakers from various countries tell me that this
construction is<br>
> acceptable>in Spanish. I studied Spanish for many years and
was<br>
> never told this,<br>
> although<br>
> >perhaps because the English rules for connection/separation
are also<br>
> >acceptable in Spanish, they transferred into my Spanish
writing<br>
> w/o a problem<br>
> >and the language difference just went undetected.<br>
> ><br>
> >So I ask: in formal written Spanish (or other languages, for
that<br>
> matter), is<br>
> >this "run-on" construction acceptable? Or has it
just become so<br>
> pervasive<br>
> that!<br>
> >it's never questioned and erroneously considered to be<br>
> "standard"? We<br>
> >certainly do that in English with sentence *fragments* such
as<br>
> "And I<br>
> agreed."<br>
> >(as well as in the previous question I just started with
"Or".)In<br>
> speech it's<br>
> >different obvously, but in a grammar/writing class,
technically,<br>
> this would<br>
> >get marked "incorrect," even though it's visible in
just about<br>
> every piece of<br>
> >written composition on the market, from newspaper articles
to<br>
> textbooks, etc.<br>
> ><br>
> >What's the scoop?<br>
> ><br>
> >Thanks,<br>
> >Laura<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >--<br>
><br>
> *****************<br>
> Federica Barbieri<br>
> Research Assistant, Office of Academic Assessment</blockquote>
<blockquote>> Northern Arizona University<br>
> 329 Peterson Hall BOX 4091<br>
> Flagstaff, AZ 86011-4091<br>
> Tel.: (928) 523 8655<br>
> email: Federica.Barbieri@NAU.EDU<br>
> http://www4.nau.edu/assessment<br>
><br>
> PhD Program in Applied Linguistics<br>
> Department of English<br>
> Northern Arizona University<br>
> Liberal Arts Building, BOX 6032<br>
> Flagstaff, AZ 86011-6032<br>
><br>
><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<hr size="1"></blockquote>
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<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>--
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div>John S. Mayher<br>
Professor, English Education<x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab>email: john.mayher@nyu.edu<br>
Department of Teaching and Learning<br>
Steinhardt School of Education<x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab>Phone: 212-998-5245<br>
New York University<x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab>
</x-tab><x-tab> </x-tab>Fax:
212-995-4049<br>
239 Greene Street, 2nd Floor<br>
New York, NY 10003</div>
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