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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I find the “firestorm” over the term a bit curious – and the fact that such a firestorm even exists should alert us to the fact that we are dealing with a “political” issue rather than a “scientific” one. <i>Technically</i>, of course, <i>everyone</i> is “indigenous” with respect to <i>some</i> location, in the dictionary sense of “having originated in and being produced, growing, or living naturally in a particular region or environment”. <i>Technically</i>, a baby born to Asian immigrants in Amsterdam is as “indigenous” as a baby born to parents whose ancestors have lived in Holland since “time immemorial”, or a baby born to parents who are participants in the English-speaking “mainstream” culture of New York City is as “indigenous” as a baby born on a reservation to parents whose ancestors lived in the Americas before the arrival of Europeans, etc. and etc. And given that – since “time immemorial” (which itself is a pretty vague and even changeable concept) – some people have always moved around or adopted new or multiple identities, it is difficult to escape the sense that the term is not much use from a technical/scientific viewpoint, and that might well be a better argument than what Kuper offered for indeed abandoning it in technical/scientific/academic contexts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Even if we try to define indigenous peoples in the sense of “the first inhabitants ever (known)”, and <i>also</i> peoples whose culture and identity sharply differ from those of the (local [though how “local”?]) majority, <i>and</i> also whose history includes colonization, dispossession, marginalization, subjugation, etc. we are really wrapping so many ultimately distinct conditions into the term that we are probably diluting whatever value it may have (had) to the point of uselessness. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Even people who are “indigenous” in the sense of “(descendants) of the first inhabitants ever (known)" …. Well, who those first inhabitants really were may be debatable, or the information about them may change; and people who are their descendants may also have other ancestors from other places, and so forth and so on. The extent to which any of this matters in the socio-cultural construct of “indigenousness” by different people is inevitably going to be variable (we can readily find various “indigenous groups” whose own criteria for what qualifies a group member varies markedly), and thus we have the situation that all sorts of people with widely varying conditions and agendas can claim “indigeneity” or self-identify as “indigenous”. IMO, the concept as used in the contemporary world is simply too vague, too diverse, to enable any useful universal application.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is it not finally the case that we are probably really talking about political, social, and cultural issues of “endangered minority ethnic and/or cultural and/or linguistic groups”? After all, it would be difficult to identify the Romani as “indigenous” (except, in a technical sense, perhaps ultimately to the region of the NW Indian subcontinent, where none I think now live!) except to the location where a given individual was born (which could have been in anyone of a number of countries or continents), yet in political/social/cultural terms the Romani are surely affected by many of the same issues that affect people belonging to what one might more customarily consider to be “indigenous” groups (whether Sámi or Navajo or Ainu or whoever). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For good or for ill, I cannot see how the claim of “indigeneity” by living persons can be construed as something other than political/social construct – and, probably, as long as we remember that socio-political “indigeneity” is (or can be) quite different from (if conceptually related to) technical/scientific “indigeneity”, perhaps we will be OK. I’m not sure I see any other readily solution or definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cheers,<br>Carl<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Carl Edlund Anderson<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dept. of Languages & Cultures<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-CO style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Universidad de La Sabana<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-CO style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://unisabana.academia.edu/CarlAnderson">http://unisabana.academia.edu/CarlAnderson</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-CO style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://lenguas.unisabana.edu.co/">http://lenguas.unisabana.edu.co/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-CO style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://laclil.unisabana.edu.co/">http://laclil.unisabana.edu.co/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-CO style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Endangered Languages List [mailto:ENDANGERED-LANGUAGES-L@listserv.linguistlist.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Johanna Laakso<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 21, 2013 2:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> ENDANGERED-LANGUAGES-L@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Who is indigenous?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Frank & All,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>in our case, one central issue was the position of the Sámi as "the only indigenous people of the EU", in contrast to other old minorities of Europe. As it seems, the "definitions" of indigenitude (as I wrote, the ILO convention actually does not provide a definition in the strict sense of the word) is largely motivated by the colonisation of non-European areas by Europeans, and its consequences. Within Europe, the situation is more complicated, as there often are many old ethnic and linguistic groups all inhabiting the same regions "from times immemorial", and whether the "timeline in a specific geographical location extends back further than any other ethnic or linguistic group in that location" cannot always be unanimously determined.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Johanna<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Univ.Prof. Dr. Johanna Laakso<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Universität Wien, Institut für Europäische und Vergleichende Sprach- und Literaturwissenschaft (EVSL)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Abteilung Finno-Ugristik<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Campus AAKH Spitalgasse 2-4 Hof 7<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>A-1090 Wien<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at">johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at</a> • <a href="http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/">http://homepage.univie.ac.at/Johanna.Laakso/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Project ELDIA: <a href="http://www.eldia-project.org/">http://www.eldia-project.org/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Frank DiSalle kirjoitti 19.1.2013 kello 14.03:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Johanna Laakso <<a href="mailto:johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at" target="_blank">johanna.laakso@univie.ac.at</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Indigenous peoples are "First Nations" in the sense of "the first inhabitants ever (known)", and ALSO peoples whose culture and identity sharply differ from those of the majority and whose history includes colonisation, dispossession, marginalisation or subjugation. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'd be very interested in hearing (reading) the justification for including the following in a definition of "indigenous":<br>Their culture and identity sharply differ from those of the majority AND <br>Their history includes colonisation, dispossession, marginalisation or subjugation. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think the simpler definition of indigenous would be the cultural (i.e., ethnic or linguistic) group whose timeline in a specific geographical location extends back further than any other ethnic or linguistic group in that location. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Respectfully,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Frank DiSalle <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><br>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.<br> ~ Marcus Aurelius <br> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>