From dhair at wfubmc.edu Mon Jun 3 04:09:09 2002 From: dhair at wfubmc.edu (David Hairston) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:09:09 -0400 Subject: Terminating 1 procedure in a List Message-ID: I am designing an experiment in which it will be necessary to "permanently" terminate (i.e., no more sampling) individual Procedures within the same List as some criterion is met. For example, assume 4 procedures, A, B, C, and D. When X incorrect responses occur during Proc A, B-D continue, until the same occurs for each independently. Any suggestions as to how to do this? I have attemped using script to use the SetWeight method on the Factor object to reset the weight of the current procedure to 0, effectively removing it from the list. This is done in an Inline at the end of each procedure, if that matters. This *seems* to work, except that 1.) it takes 1 more sample before dropping out, and more crucially 2.) when all procedure weights are set to 0 (i.e., after last one hits criterion) E-Prime crashes and I get a lovely Windows error saying that an illegal operation has been performed.... ...I'm guessing this is because its going back for another sample and discovers it can't because there are none. Anybody have a suggestion on how to do this, or why it is looking to take 1 more sample after (theoretically) the weight has been set to 0? Thanks, Dave From sverre.andresen at epilepsy.no Mon Jun 3 13:30:04 2002 From: sverre.andresen at epilepsy.no (Sverre Andresen) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:30:04 +0200 Subject: SV: David Hairston: Terminating 1 procedure in a List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am not sure I have understood You correctly, but I think you can solve the problem of terminating a procedure by using a label at the end of the procedure level you want to exit from and jump to that label when your exit condition is met. The jump instruction should be placed before the list object on that procedure line. The jump is accomplished with a 'goto'-statement. for instance: if NumberOfRuns > criteria then goto label1. This won't reset the list, and will leave you with a data-file with a lot of NULL-values -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org]På vegne av Sendt: 3. juni 2002 06:09 Til: Emne: Terminating 1 procedure in a List I am designing an experiment in which it will be necessary to "permanently" terminate (i.e., no more sampling) individual Procedures within the same List as some criterion is met. For example, assume 4 procedures, A, B, C, and D. When X incorrect responses occur during Proc A, B-D continue, until the same occurs for each independently. Any suggestions as to how to do this? I have attemped using script to use the SetWeight method on the Factor object to reset the weight of the current procedure to 0, effectively removing it from the list. This is done in an Inline at the end of each procedure, if that matters. This *seems* to work, except that 1.) it takes 1 more sample before dropping out, and more crucially 2.) when all procedure weights are set to 0 (i.e., after last one hits criterion) E-Prime crashes and I get a lovely Windows error saying that an illegal operation has been performed.... ...I'm guessing this is because its going back for another sample and discovers it can't because there are none. Anybody have a suggestion on how to do this, or why it is looking to take 1 more sample after (theoretically) the weight has been set to 0? Thanks, Dave From ftornay at ugr.es Tue Jun 4 15:30:52 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:30:52 +0200 Subject: DUAL task experiment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Zainab, I'm not completely sure whether I got you right. If not, please correct me. In my opinion there is only a little problem. In the case where the SOA is longer than stim1 duration there is no problem. In the other case (SOA < stim1) there is only a difference: the fappearance of stim2 should not delete stim1 but it should wait for a period (which equals stim1 - SOA) and only then delete stim1. There are several possibilities: a simple one would be to use two different procedures: one for trials on which SOA > stim1, the other for trials on which SOA < stim1. The first one is clear enough. Procedure for SOA < stim1. It is a copy of the other procedure except for the following: 1) Stimulus 1 appears for an interval equals to SOA (whether fixed or varied by an attribute) 2) Stimulus 2 appears without deleting stimulus 1 (set background property to "transparent" and make sure both stimuli do not overlap, change the X and Y properties). This object (textdisplay or whatever) would remain for a period equal to SOA minus stim1 duration). 3) Stimulus 2 remains on screen while stimulus 1 disappears You can do this by presenting a new object, which would again present stim2 but deleting the previous display (it would be a copy of the previous object but with the background property set to "opaque"). This would last for a period equal to stim2 duration minus SOA. You may need to set up new attributes for the durations of the three above mentioned objects (if they are variable). I am not sure whether this has solved your problem and whether I made myself clear. In case you have any doubt or problem, feel free to write again. If you don't like the idea of using two separate procedures, it would not be difficult to merge them into a single one by increasing the number of the attributes. Hope this helps, Francisco Tornay From ahestvik at gc.cuny.edu Wed Jun 5 00:10:11 2002 From: ahestvik at gc.cuny.edu (Arild Hestvik) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:10:11 -0700 Subject: E-Prime + Neuroscan Message-ID: We are able to use E-Prime to put down markers in the continuous EEG file in a Neuroscan system (Acquire version 4.2), and will attempt to replace STIM with E-Prime. STIM appears to use certain conventions for coding trialnumbers and trialtype, etc. Does anyone else out there use E-Prime with Neuroscan, and if so, could they send us a small demoprogram so that we can look at how others do this? Thanks, Arild Hestvik CUNY Graduate Center, Developmental Psycholinguistics Lab From ftornay at ugr.es Wed Jun 5 10:06:59 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:06:59 +0200 Subject: problems Message-ID: At 18:34 31/05/02 -0400, you wrote: >Help! I am a new user to e-prime and programmed an experiment in = >e-studio. However, now the application will not open, for some reason, = >and I did not make a back up copy. The e-basic script is still = >available; is there a way to open up e-studio from the script? I am not = >done programming yet, and do not want to start from scratch. >Thanks! I can't help much about that. It just occurs to me that the key factor is whether you have the e-studio file. If so, just try to reinstall e-prime ( choose the repair option in the setup program, which you will find in windows control panel) if e-studio continues to fail and then try to open the file again. > In addition to that dilemma, I also wanted to know if there was a = >way to randomize location of stimuli. I have a working memory paradigm = >in which I show two stimuli (which I have on a slide right now) , then a = >fixation, then a probe. The probe is either the same or a different = >object from the first two stimuli. I need to randomize the location of = >the first two stimuli, but I need to relate the probe location to the = >location of the first two stimuli; it needs to be either in the same = >location, nearby, or far away from the first stimuli. =20 [snipped] Just set up two attributes, one for the location of the first stimulus, another one for that of the second stimulus: call them Location1 and Location2 The values of the two attributes would be locations acceptable for the X (or Y) properties of the objects presenting the stimuli. This would be either numbers of pixels or percentages of the screen size. I would recommend the latter solution. For example you might have the following rows in your list object. Location1 Location2 25% 25% 25% 75% 75% 75% 75% 25% Rows 1 and 3 would be examples of trials on which both stimuli appear at the same location. Rows 2 and 4 are examples of different-location trials. Then you would set the X property (on the frame tab) of the stimulus 1 object to [Location1] and the same property in stimulus 2 object to [Location 2]. In our lab, we have used the above-mentioned procedure in order to implement a costs and benefits paradigm. Yours, Francisco Tornay From ftornay at ugr.es Wed Jun 5 10:06:47 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:06:47 +0200 Subject: using canvas for presenting stimuli Message-ID: At 20:39 21/05/02 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, >Does anybody know if it's possible to present stimuli via an Image or >Slide display which would use a canvas object defined in an Inline >script? >The problem is that I have a lot of different stimuli with random >shapes, colors and locations on the screen. They are easily created by >writing E-basic script, but then I'd like to present the created canvas >using a standard Image or Slide object, because it's much easier for >timing, data collection, etc. >It seems though that I have to use files only as images with these >objects. Does anybody know a way to avoid this and use a canvas? >Thanks. >Svetlana. I don't know of any way of doing it. It is an interesting question. However, what I usually do is just write to the canvas in an inline object and then use a wait object, which takes care of timing and response collection just as easily as an image or slide object. Have you got any difficulty with this solution? If you explain which it is, I could try to figure out how to get around it. Hope this helps, Francisco Tornay From ftornay at ugr.es Wed Jun 5 10:26:35 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:26:35 +0200 Subject: Oops!: DUAL task experiment Message-ID: I'm sorry, I made a mistake when describing the procedure, I wrote: >Procedure for SOA < stim1. It is a copy of the other procedure except for >the following: > >Object 1) Stimulus 1 appears for an interval equals to SOA (whether fixed >or varied by an attribute) >Object 2) Stimulus 2 appears without deleting stimulus 1 (set background >property to "transparent" and make sure both stimuli do not >overlap, change the X and Y properties). This object (textdisplay >or whatever) would remain for a period equal to SOA minus stim1 >duration). >Object 3) Stimulus 2 remains on screen while stimulus 1 disappears > You can do this by presenting a new object, which would again > present stim2 but deleting the previous display (it would be a > copy of the previous object but with the background property set > to "opaque"). > This would last for a period equal to stim2 duration minus SOA. The last line is wrong, object 3 should last for a period equal to stim2 duration minus the duration of object 2. The point is: Object1 duration = SOA (stim1 appears alone) Object1 duration + Object2 duration = stim1 duration (it is the period in which stim1 stays on screen, either alone or with stim2). Object2 duration + Object3 duration = stim2 duration (Stim2 remains on screen along both objects). Francisco Tornay From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 5 13:11:44 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:11:44 -0400 Subject: using canvas for presenting stimuli Message-ID: Svetlana, Try using the Canvas.SaveImage call to save the contents of a canvas as a bmp file after it is drawn. This will work with both offscreen canvases as well as the primary display canvas. You can then do all of your drawing and saving at the beginning of the session/block/trial and then load the image up later in your paradigm. Regards, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Svetlana V Gromenkova [mailto:svg211 at nyu.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:40 PM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: using canvas for presenting stimuli > > > Hello, > Does anybody know if it's possible to present stimuli via an Image or > Slide display which would use a canvas object defined in an Inline > script? > The problem is that I have a lot of different stimuli with random > shapes, colors and locations on the screen. They are easily > created by > writing E-basic script, but then I'd like to present the > created canvas > using a standard Image or Slide object, because it's much easier for > timing, data collection, etc. > It seems though that I have to use files only as images with these > objects. Does anybody know a way to avoid this and use a canvas? > Thanks. > Svetlana. > > > > From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 5 13:30:52 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:30:52 -0400 Subject: Terminating 1 procedure in a List Message-ID: David, I think the easiest way to do this is to check at the beginning of the trial if the current trial type is allowed and then exit the procedure without running if it not, e.g. keep an attribute that indicates the trial type (which presumably you already have) and also keep a global array or string of the trial types you want to allow (if you use a string check out the Item$() function in E-Basic Help to help you rip through the string w/o having to write your own parsing code). If the trial type is not allowed then just call Exit Sub. In the following example I assume the existence of a Function that checks a condition against a list of valid conditions and returns True or False if the trial condition is allowed. If Not IsTrialTypeAllowed( c.GetAttrib("TrialType") ) Then Exit Sub End If This will cause the list to sample again, but because you never allow the procedure to end you will not get anything logged in the data file, e.g. it is as if the trial did not exist. The only downside to this is a small potential increase in your inter-trial-interval. If you need to control for that you should be able to use the cumulative timing mode and prerelease features on the last object in the trial to make this more consistent. Regards, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: David Hairston [mailto:dhair at wfubmc.edu] > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:09 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Terminating 1 procedure in a List > > > I am designing an experiment in which it will be necessary to > "permanently" terminate (i.e., no more sampling) individual > Procedures within the same List as some criterion is met. > For example, assume 4 procedures, A, B, C, and D. When X > incorrect responses occur during Proc A, B-D continue, until > the same occurs for each independently. Any suggestions as > to how to do this? > > I have attemped using script to use the SetWeight method on > the Factor object to reset the weight of the current > procedure to 0, effectively removing it from the list. This > is done in an Inline at the end of each procedure, if that > matters. This *seems* to work, except that 1.) it takes 1 > more sample before dropping out, and more crucially 2.) when > all procedure weights are set to 0 (i.e., after last one hits > criterion) E-Prime crashes and I get a lovely Windows error > saying that an illegal operation has been performed.... > ...I'm guessing this is because its going back for another > sample and discovers it can't because there are none. > Anybody have a suggestion on how to do this, or why it is > looking to take 1 more sample after (theoretically) the > weight has been set to 0? > > Thanks, > Dave > > From psudevan at uwsp.edu Wed Jun 5 15:48:19 2002 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:48:19 -0500 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Hello, I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one else was doing it. Regards, P Sudevan University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point From dhair at wfubmc.edu Wed Jun 5 15:53:25 2002 From: dhair at wfubmc.edu (David Hairston) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:53:25 -0400 Subject: Archives Message-ID: I know they're being archived here - this is how I came across this list in teh first place... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/eprime.html -----Original Message----- From: Sudevan, Padmanabhan [mailto:psudevan at uwsp.edu] Sent: Wed 05/06/2002 11:48 AM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: Subject: RE: Archives Hello, I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one else was doing it. Regards, P Sudevan University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point From psudevan at uwsp.edu Wed Jun 5 15:56:47 2002 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:56:47 -0500 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Splendid! Thanks, David, I will check it out. Sudevan -----Original Message----- From: David Hairston [mailto:dhair at wfubmc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:53 AM To: Sudevan, Padmanabhan; eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: RE: Archives I know they're being archived here - this is how I came across this list in teh first place... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/eprime.html -----Original Message----- From: Sudevan, Padmanabhan [mailto:psudevan at uwsp.edu] Sent: Wed 05/06/2002 11:48 AM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: Subject: RE: Archives Hello, I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one else was doing it. Regards, P Sudevan University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 5 16:57:24 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:57:24 -0400 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Padmanabhan, While a number of the PST technical and development staff actively participate in these discussions this listserver is administrated and operated totally independent of PST. I expect the listserver administrator would be able to make an archive available if it does not already exist somewhere. Dr. MacWhinney or listserver admin, Could you perhaps comment on this issue? Thanks, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Sudevan, Padmanabhan [mailto:psudevan at uwsp.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:48 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: RE: Archives > > > > Hello, > > I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed > on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being > archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair > amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate > to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in > the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear > to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. > I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site > folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving > these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one > else was doing it. > > Regards, > > P Sudevan > University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point > > > > From macw at cmu.edu Thu Jun 6 23:05:28 2002 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:05:28 -0400 Subject: Archives In-Reply-To: <8A4A15FB180CB4418AEF817150DDA19302894468@ems6.uwsp.edu> Message-ID: Dear Sudevan, Tony, and David, Just to elaborate on David's pointer to the LinguistList archive, you might note that, if you go to http://step.psy.cmu.edu/eprime.html you will see that a pointer is given there to the location where E-Prime messages are being archived. We have been archiving them since the initiation of the list and have had a pointer to the archive at this spot from the beginning. --Brian MacWhinney From svg211 at nyu.edu Fri Jun 7 01:52:31 2002 From: svg211 at nyu.edu (Svetlana V Gromenkova) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:52:31 -0400 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: Hello, Did anybody make any experiments with colored objects? I need to present objects with four different colors, but I'm just unable to find/create four colors which would be equivalent on all characteristics (luminance, brightness, etc.) and still be readily distinguishable from each other. Besides, they should be easily perceived even when presented at a rate of 100 msec. The best I could find is white, yellow, black and blue on a grey background, but honestly only white and yellow are good. Black and blue are less prominent, because darker. If anybody had colors in their experiments, I would really appreciate it if you could tell me which colors you used. Thank you. Svetlana. From asa8 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Jun 7 07:20:25 2002 From: asa8 at leicester.ac.uk (Andrews, A.S.) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:20:25 +0100 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: Svetlana I have 6 colours that I use on a black background. These are equi-salient and used in a Kamin-Blocking experiment. They were derived with help from a friend who is an expert in visual scales from the National Physical Laboratory in the UK. If you like I can email 'colour swatches' to you. Regards Tony Andrews. >-----Original Message----- >From: Svetlana V Gromenkova [mailto:svg211 at nyu.edu] >Sent: 07 June 2002 02:53 >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: colors in E-prime > > >Hello, >Did anybody make any experiments with colored objects? >I need to present objects with four different colors, but I'm just >unable to find/create four colors which would be equivalent on all >characteristics (luminance, brightness, etc.) and still be readily >distinguishable from each other. Besides, they should be easily >perceived even when presented at a rate of 100 msec. >The best I could find is white, yellow, black and blue on a grey >background, but honestly only white and yellow are good. Black >and blue >are less prominent, because darker. >If anybody had colors in their experiments, I would really appreciate >it if you could tell me which colors you used. >Thank you. >Svetlana. > > > > From psudevan at uwsp.edu Fri Jun 7 16:25:57 2002 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:25:57 -0500 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Thanks, Brian. I am really glad that the information exchanged by various users is archived. It makes sense for one to search the archives first if one has a question. Great work! Sudevan -----Original Message----- From: Brian MacWhinney [mailto:macw at cmu.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 6:05 PM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Re: Archives Dear Sudevan, Tony, and David, Just to elaborate on David's pointer to the LinguistList archive, you might note that, if you go to http://step.psy.cmu.edu/eprime.html you will see that a pointer is given there to the location where E-Prime messages are being archived. We have been archiving them since the initiation of the list and have had a pointer to the archive at this spot from the beginning. --Brian MacWhinney From jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com Fri Jun 7 20:33:22 2002 From: jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com (Jeff Szuhay) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:33:22 -0400 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: >Did anybody make any experiments with colored objects? >I need to present objects with four different colors, but I'm just >unable to find/create four colors which would be equivalent on all >characteristics (luminance, brightness, etc.) and still be readily >distinguishable from each other. Besides, they should be easily >perceived even when presented at a rate of 100 msec. >The best I could find is white, yellow, black and blue on a grey >background, but honestly only white and yellow are good. Black and blue >are less prominent, because darker. >If anybody had colors in their experiments, I would really appreciate >it if you could tell me which colors you used. Be aware that all colors are not equal to the human eye. About 55% of human eye color cells (cones) detect green About 40% of them detect red, and about 5% of them detect blue. However, on a computer screen red, blue and green are equally represented to give the widest range of colors possible (regardless how the human eye detects them). You could try for your 3 colors: pure red, pure green, and pure blue and then use white (which will be more intense since it is all three of them) or a less intense grey (each of red, green and blue at 1/3 their "pure" values). Jeff Sz. -- Jeff Szuhay Lead Macintosh Engineer voice: 412-271-5040 x 227 Psychology Software Tools From jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com Fri Jun 7 20:36:14 2002 From: jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com (Jeff Szuhay) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:36:14 -0400 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: At 8:20 AM +0100 6/7/02, Andrews, A.S. wrote: >I have 6 colours that I use on a black background. These are equi-salient and used in a Kamin-Blocking experiment. They were derived with help from a friend who is an expert in visual scales from the National Physical Laboratory in the UK. > >If you like I can email 'colour swatches' to you. Could you please post the RGB values to this list. This is very handy info to know. Jeff Sz. -- Jeff Szuhay Lead Macintosh Engineer voice: 412-271-5040 x 227 Psychology Software Tools From spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org Fri Jun 14 16:26:59 2002 From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org (spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:26:59 -0500 Subject: Interrupting a trial (was Starting where I left off Message-ID: >The TrialList should have enough samples available for what you would >need over the entire experiment, "Reset at the beginning of each Run" >set to off, and Exit List set to "After 30 seconds". Tony, Thanks for your response. I tried this and it worked just fine. However, >Note that this time limit will not halt a trial in the middle if it expires at that >time, e.g. the setting is essentially saying "before starting the next >trial see if there is any time left - if there is even 1 msec left it >will run another complete trial (if this is a problem for your study >there are other ways around it but that can be another posting if need >be). That is exactly what I want to do. If a trial is in progress when the 30-second time limit is up, I'd like to be able to stop the trial and go on to the next procedure. Any advice? Stephen Palmer Dept. of Symptom Research M.D. Anderson Cancer Center "Tony Zuccolotto" on 05/31/2002 09:56:57 AM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org cc: (bcc: Stephen N. Palmer/MDACC) Subject: RE: Starting where I left off Stephan, Give that a try and see what secondary problems you run into. Regards, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org [mailto:spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org] > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:13 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Starting where I left off > > > > > I am trying to program a mental rotation task in which > subjects will perform the > task in 30-second blocks. In each trial, the subject will be > shown two > 3-dimensional images and asked to judge whether or not the > images are the same > or different. Each block will consist of as many trials as > the subject can > complete in 30 seconds. > > My question is, how do I program E-Prime to begin the next > block where the first > block left off? For example, if the subject completes > trials 1 through 6 in > the first block, how do I make the next block start with trial 7? > > I would appreciate any advice you could give. > > Stephen Palmer > Dept. of Symptom Research > M.D. Anderson Cancer Center > > > > From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Fri Jun 14 17:41:35 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:41:35 -0400 Subject: Interrupting a trial (was Starting where I left off Message-ID: Stephen, The only way I think you can really do this second step currently at a finer resolution is to... * before the trial sequence starts, set a global variable that represents the end time of the trial sequence, e.g. g_nEndTime = Clock.Read + 30000 ' end time 30 seconds from now (there are ways to get more precise on this, e.g. use the OnsetTime of the first object to execute on the first trial of the sequence as your true start point. * use an InLine between each object in the trial sequence to check if the time has expired e.g. if Clock.Read >= g_nEndTime. To get to the InLines as fast as possible you may want to set your PreRelease times on most of your trial sequence objects to be the same as your Duration, e.g. this has the effect of letting the object present its stimuli and enable any associated input masks and then continue. (Note in most cases you can probably re-use the same inline throughout the trial sequence) * if you find that time has expired then use the IsPending method on any potentially active input masks (see InputMask.IsPending) and terminate them useing InputMask.Terminate * if you want the current "partial" trial logged then use a goto to jump to a label at the very end of the trial, otherwise call Exit Sub to avoid the implicit logging that occurs at the end of a trial sequence. Regards, Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org [mailto:spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org] > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:27 PM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Interrupting a trial (was Starting where I left off > > > > > >The TrialList should have enough samples available for what you would > >need over the entire experiment, "Reset at the beginning of each Run" > >set to off, and Exit List set to "After 30 seconds". > > Tony, > > Thanks for your response. I tried this and it worked just > fine. However, > > >Note that this time limit will not halt a trial in the > middle if it expires at > that > >time, e.g. the setting is essentially saying "before > starting the next > >trial see if there is any time left - if there is even 1 msec left it > >will run another complete trial (if this is a problem for your study > >there are other ways around it but that can be another > posting if need > >be). > > That is exactly what I want to do. If a trial is in progress > when the 30-second > time limit is up, I'd like to be able to stop the trial and > go on to the next > procedure. Any advice? > > Stephen Palmer > Dept. of Symptom Research > M.D. Anderson Cancer Center > > > > > > > > > "Tony Zuccolotto" on > 05/31/2002 09:56:57 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > > cc: (bcc: Stephen N. Palmer/MDACC) > > > > Subject: RE: Starting where I left off > > > > > > > > > Stephan, > > > Give that a try and see what secondary problems you run into. > > Regards, > Tony > > *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY > REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** > Anthony P. Zuccolotto > Vice President of Operations > Psychology Software Tools, Inc. > 2050 Ardmore Boulevard > Suite 200 > Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 > Phone 412-271-5040 > FAX 412-271-7077 > Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com > Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org > [mailto:spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org] > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:13 AM > > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > > Subject: Starting where I left off > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to program a mental rotation task in which > > subjects will perform the > > task in 30-second blocks. In each trial, the subject will be > > shown two > > 3-dimensional images and asked to judge whether or not the > > images are the same > > or different. Each block will consist of as many trials as > > the subject can > > complete in 30 seconds. > > > > My question is, how do I program E-Prime to begin the next > > block where the first > > block left off? For example, if the subject completes > > trials 1 through 6 in > > the first block, how do I make the next block start with trial 7? > > > > I would appreciate any advice you could give. > > > > Stephen Palmer > > Dept. of Symptom Research > > M.D. Anderson Cancer Center > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw Sun Jun 16 13:45:03 2002 From: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw (Stephen Lai) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:45:03 +0800 Subject: How to design a paradigm with different onset primes? Message-ID: Hi, I am currently now developing a cross-modal priming paradigm ( image (prime) -- autitory (target)). I want to set up two conditions: (1). Stimulus onset= 0msec; that is, the prime and the target appear simultaneously, but I just want the prime to appear for 300 msec... This cannot be done in a "Slide" since I cannot control the duration of the image. So, how can I do this without using a "Slide"? Actually, I have no idea about how to set different onset conditions. For example, I want the prime to appear simultaneously with the target.. or let the prime to appear around the middle or the late part of the target..... Can anyohe help me ? Stephen Lai Stephen Y.D. Lai Graduate Institute of Linguistics National Chung Cheng University Min-Hsiung, Chia-Yi 621 TAIWAN, ROC Email: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw From g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw Sun Jun 16 13:55:53 2002 From: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw (Stephen Lai) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:55:53 +0800 Subject: Question about how to set a paradigm of different onset primes? Message-ID: Hi, I am currently now developing a cross-modal priming paradigm ( image (prime) -- autitory (target)). I want to set up two conditions: (1). Stimulus onset= 0msec; that is, the prime and the target appear simultaneously, but I just want the prime to appear for 300 msec... This cannot be done in a "Slide" since I cannot control the duration of the image. So, how can I do this without using a "Slide"? Actually, I have no idea about how to set different onset conditions. For example, I want the prime to appear simultaneously with the target.. or let the prime to appear around the middle or the late part of the target..... Can anyohe help me ? Stephen Lai Stephen Y.D. Lai Graduate Institute of Linguistics National Chung Cheng University Min-Hsiung, Chia-Yi 621 TAIWAN, ROC Email: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw From mboultbee at hotmail.com Mon Jun 17 11:13:02 2002 From: mboultbee at hotmail.com (Melanie Boultbee) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:13:02 -0400 Subject: Eprime Digest - 06/16/02 Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Mon Jun 17 13:55:48 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:55:48 -0400 Subject: Question about how to set a paradigm of different onset primes? Message-ID: Hi Stephen, I think you still want to stick with a Slide, e.g. at least to implement a simultaneous onset of multiple modality stimuli. The trick here is to adjust the Duration on the Slide to the smallest Duration of any of the stimuli on the slide. While you can't adjust the Duration of any single subobject on the Slide, you can specify it for the entire Slide. At the end of the Slide.Duration you can then either clear the visual stimulus via script or alternatively run another slide that is similarly arranged so it clears the stimulus. You may have to control the StopAfter setting on the SoundOut subobject to make sure sound continues to play after the Slide's duration is over. If you just want to clear the entire screen you could run a TextDisplay with nothing on it, or in script you could... Sleep 500 ' however long you want to wait until after the Slide ends. Display.WaitForVerticalBlank Display.Canvas.Clear If you just want to clear individual visual stimuli out of N stimuli that were presented on a Slide you can do something like the following ' Assuming you have a Slide named MySlide with 2 Text objects on it (Text1 and Text2). ' Assume this script is in an Inline after the Slide runs. Set MySlide_SlideText = CSlideText(MySlide.States.Item("Default").Objects("Text1")) Sleep 500 Display.WaitForVerticalBlank MySlide_SlideText.Clear Set MySlide_SlideText = CSlideText(MySlide.States.Item("Default").Objects("Text2")) Sleep 500 Display.WaitForVerticalBlank MySlide_SlideText.Clear The above script will clear Text1 500ms after the Slide ends and then Text2 will clear 500 msec after Text1 is cleared. If you have the TimeLimit property set correctly and the StopAfter property on any SoundOut object then inputs and auditory stimuli that were initiated by the Slide will continue over this inline. Depending on how precise you need to be you may want to change the Sleep commands to use Clock.Read instead, e.g. if you set the Slide.Duration to 300 but you want something to happen 500msec after its onset you can do the timing like... Dim nEndTime As Long ' Calculate end time nEndTime = Slide.OnsetTime + 500 Do DoEvents Loop Until Clock.Read >= nEndTime If you need to see how to manipulate objects on a Slide via script I would recommend you write a small paradigm with just 1 slide on it, vary the properties you are interested in, generate the script, and then examine the Full Script, e.g. if your slide is named MySlide then search for MySlide.Run and the script right before the call to the Run method should show you how to access the property you are interested in. Hope that helps, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Lai [mailto:g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw] > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:56 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Question about how to set a paradigm of different > onset primes? > > > Hi, > I am currently now developing a cross-modal priming paradigm ( image > (prime) -- autitory (target)). > I want to set up two conditions: > (1). Stimulus onset= 0msec; that is, the prime and the target appear > simultaneously, but I just want the prime to appear for 300 msec... > This cannot be done in a "Slide" since I cannot control the > duration of the > image. So, how can I do this without using a "Slide"? > > Actually, I have no idea about how to set different onset > conditions. For > example, I want the prime to appear simultaneously with the target.. > or let the prime to appear around the middle or the late part of the > target..... > > Can anyohe help me ? > > Stephen Lai > Stephen Y.D. Lai > Graduate Institute of Linguistics > National Chung Cheng University > Min-Hsiung, Chia-Yi 621 > TAIWAN, ROC > Email: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw > > > > > > From DJ.Pettigrew at ulster.ac.uk Mon Jun 24 15:09:07 2002 From: DJ.Pettigrew at ulster.ac.uk (David Pettigrew) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:09:07 GMT Subject: blank attr Message-ID: I am trying to present a list of word individually on screen to make a sentence. Some sentences have 14 words, others as little as 8. These blank attributes appear as "?" as default. I need to filter these blank attributes so they arent displayed. Many thanks Dave Pettigrew From mark.blair at asu.edu Mon Jun 24 16:50:04 2002 From: mark.blair at asu.edu (Mark Blair) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: blank attr Message-ID: Dave, I don't know how to filter blanks, but assuming you want the sentences randomly presented, you could try using a set of nested lists where each sub-list has only sentences of the same length. You could weight the sub-lists by how many sentences are in the list so that they still have equal opportunity to be chosen. Good Luck, Mark Blair. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pettigrew" To: Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: blank attr > I am trying to present a list of word individually on screen to make > a sentence. Some sentences have 14 words, others as little as 8. > These blank attributes appear as "?" as default. I need to filter > these blank attributes so they arent displayed. > > Many thanks > > Dave Pettigrew > > > From devo0023 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 26 13:27:30 2002 From: devo0023 at tc.umn.edu (Cynthia J DeVore) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:27:30 -0500 Subject: Blank Attr Message-ID: Sorry, I thought I could send attachments. I've sent the .es file to David. If anyone else wants it, just e-mail me directly. Cynthia J. DeVore Graduate Student U of MN - Industrial/Organizational Psychology devo0023 at tc.umn.edu From JPatte at lsuhsc.edu Wed Jun 26 13:28:02 2002 From: JPatte at lsuhsc.edu (Patterson, James) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:28:02 -0500 Subject: Conversion utility Message-ID: Is there an easy way to convert from Eprime b5 paradigms to V1.0? I have found that most of my scripts will no longer work, and I am having to redo them from scratch. =========================================== James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD Director of PET Neuroimaging Research PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation Assistant Professor of Psychiatry Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry 318-675-6148 - fax 318-675-4000 - PET Center 318-675-4020 - fax =========================================== From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 26 15:17:43 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:17:43 -0400 Subject: Conversion utility Message-ID: Dr. Patterson, Are you having problems with "straight E-Prime paradigms" or are you trying to convert paradigms that are using Net Station and/or IFIS? If your paradigms are using IFIS or Net Station then I would recommend contacting PST technical support for further direct assistance. If these are straight E-Prime paradigms however, then typically just loading the paradigms into E-Prime 1.0 will do the conversion successfully. Even if there is something that doesn't automatically convert within script that you wrote, the scope of the change is often just a few lines in an isolated area. Can you post a few of the lines that are causing problems? I guess in general I would recommend taking a close look at the exact cause of this problem before I would start recreating the paradigms from scratch, e.g. it might be as simple as one global replace that you can do through find & replace within the script window and it would take care of the problem. Thanks Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Patterson, James [mailto:JPatte at lsuhsc.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:28 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Conversion utility > > > Is there an easy way to convert from Eprime b5 paradigms to > V1.0? I have > found that most of my scripts will no longer work, and I am > having to redo > them from scratch. > > =========================================== > James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD > Director of PET Neuroimaging Research > PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation > Assistant Professor of Psychiatry > Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport > 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry > 318-675-6148 - fax > 318-675-4000 - PET Center > 318-675-4020 - fax > =========================================== > > From JPatte at lsuhsc.edu Wed Jun 26 15:54:37 2002 From: JPatte at lsuhsc.edu (Patterson, James) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:54:37 -0500 Subject: Conversion utility AND dual version of E-Prime Message-ID: Yes, it could have been the IFIS components that were throwing things off, but that is not what caused the error messages, at least not directly. Anyway, I have the programs I need rewritten in v1.0, but now can't use them on the IFIS machines because the IFIS package is still not upgraded, and no one can give me an ETA on that. I have reverted to older versions for the IFIS hardware, and want to know if I can do the following: Can I switch from one version of Eprime (beta5) to another (v1.0) by having them installed to different directories under C:\Program Files\PST and renaming the active directory to C:\Program Files\PST\E-Prime? Thanks, James =========================================== James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD Director of PET Neuroimaging Research PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation Assistant Professor of Psychiatry Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry 318-675-6148 - fax 318-675-4000 - PET Center 318-675-4020 - fax =========================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Zuccolotto [mailto:anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:18 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: RE: Conversion utility > > > Dr. Patterson, > > Are you having problems with "straight E-Prime paradigms" or are you > trying to convert paradigms that are using Net Station and/or > IFIS? If > your paradigms are using IFIS or Net Station then I would recommend > contacting PST technical support for further direct assistance. > > If these are straight E-Prime paradigms however, then typically just > loading the paradigms into E-Prime 1.0 will do the conversion > successfully. Even if there is something that doesn't automatically > convert within script that you wrote, the scope of the change is often > just a few lines in an isolated area. Can you post a few of > the lines > that are causing problems? I guess in general I would > recommend taking > a close look at the exact cause of this problem before I would start > recreating the paradigms from scratch, e.g. it might be as > simple as one > global replace that you can do through find & replace within > the script > window and it would take care of the problem. > > Thanks > Tony > > *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY > REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** > Anthony P. Zuccolotto > Vice President of Operations > Psychology Software Tools, Inc. > 2050 Ardmore Boulevard > Suite 200 > Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 > Phone 412-271-5040 > FAX 412-271-7077 > Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com > Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patterson, James [mailto:JPatte at lsuhsc.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:28 AM > > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > > Subject: Conversion utility > > > > > > Is there an easy way to convert from Eprime b5 paradigms to > > V1.0? I have > > found that most of my scripts will no longer work, and I am > > having to redo > > them from scratch. > > > > =========================================== > > James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD > > Director of PET Neuroimaging Research > > PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation > > Assistant Professor of Psychiatry > > Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport > > 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry > > 318-675-6148 - fax > > 318-675-4000 - PET Center > > 318-675-4020 - fax > > =========================================== > > > > > From kmt2001 at med.cornell.edu Wed Jun 26 19:09:00 2002 From: kmt2001 at med.cornell.edu (Kathleen M. Thomas) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:09:00 -0400 Subject: Button press duration Message-ID: Does anyone have an example script for recording the duration of a button press response (mouse, keyboard, or SR Box) rather than it's occurrence? I want to record looking times for infant subjects but am not sure how to go about determining the time elapsed between button press and release. Thanks, Katie Thomas -- Kathleen M. Thomas, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Psychology in Psychiatry Sackler Institute for Developmental Psychobiology 1300 York Avenue, Box 140, Suite F-1332 New York, NY 10021 Phone: (212) 746-3648 Fax: (212) 746-5755 Email: kmt2001 at med.cornell.edu www.sacklerinstitute.org From dhair at wfubmc.edu Mon Jun 3 04:09:09 2002 From: dhair at wfubmc.edu (David Hairston) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:09:09 -0400 Subject: Terminating 1 procedure in a List Message-ID: I am designing an experiment in which it will be necessary to "permanently" terminate (i.e., no more sampling) individual Procedures within the same List as some criterion is met. For example, assume 4 procedures, A, B, C, and D. When X incorrect responses occur during Proc A, B-D continue, until the same occurs for each independently. Any suggestions as to how to do this? I have attemped using script to use the SetWeight method on the Factor object to reset the weight of the current procedure to 0, effectively removing it from the list. This is done in an Inline at the end of each procedure, if that matters. This *seems* to work, except that 1.) it takes 1 more sample before dropping out, and more crucially 2.) when all procedure weights are set to 0 (i.e., after last one hits criterion) E-Prime crashes and I get a lovely Windows error saying that an illegal operation has been performed.... ...I'm guessing this is because its going back for another sample and discovers it can't because there are none. Anybody have a suggestion on how to do this, or why it is looking to take 1 more sample after (theoretically) the weight has been set to 0? Thanks, Dave From sverre.andresen at epilepsy.no Mon Jun 3 13:30:04 2002 From: sverre.andresen at epilepsy.no (Sverre Andresen) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:30:04 +0200 Subject: SV: David Hairston: Terminating 1 procedure in a List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am not sure I have understood You correctly, but I think you can solve the problem of terminating a procedure by using a label at the end of the procedure level you want to exit from and jump to that label when your exit condition is met. The jump instruction should be placed before the list object on that procedure line. The jump is accomplished with a 'goto'-statement. for instance: if NumberOfRuns > criteria then goto label1. This won't reset the list, and will leave you with a data-file with a lot of NULL-values -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org]P? vegne av Sendt: 3. juni 2002 06:09 Til: Emne: Terminating 1 procedure in a List I am designing an experiment in which it will be necessary to "permanently" terminate (i.e., no more sampling) individual Procedures within the same List as some criterion is met. For example, assume 4 procedures, A, B, C, and D. When X incorrect responses occur during Proc A, B-D continue, until the same occurs for each independently. Any suggestions as to how to do this? I have attemped using script to use the SetWeight method on the Factor object to reset the weight of the current procedure to 0, effectively removing it from the list. This is done in an Inline at the end of each procedure, if that matters. This *seems* to work, except that 1.) it takes 1 more sample before dropping out, and more crucially 2.) when all procedure weights are set to 0 (i.e., after last one hits criterion) E-Prime crashes and I get a lovely Windows error saying that an illegal operation has been performed.... ...I'm guessing this is because its going back for another sample and discovers it can't because there are none. Anybody have a suggestion on how to do this, or why it is looking to take 1 more sample after (theoretically) the weight has been set to 0? Thanks, Dave From ftornay at ugr.es Tue Jun 4 15:30:52 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:30:52 +0200 Subject: DUAL task experiment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Zainab, I'm not completely sure whether I got you right. If not, please correct me. In my opinion there is only a little problem. In the case where the SOA is longer than stim1 duration there is no problem. In the other case (SOA < stim1) there is only a difference: the fappearance of stim2 should not delete stim1 but it should wait for a period (which equals stim1 - SOA) and only then delete stim1. There are several possibilities: a simple one would be to use two different procedures: one for trials on which SOA > stim1, the other for trials on which SOA < stim1. The first one is clear enough. Procedure for SOA < stim1. It is a copy of the other procedure except for the following: 1) Stimulus 1 appears for an interval equals to SOA (whether fixed or varied by an attribute) 2) Stimulus 2 appears without deleting stimulus 1 (set background property to "transparent" and make sure both stimuli do not overlap, change the X and Y properties). This object (textdisplay or whatever) would remain for a period equal to SOA minus stim1 duration). 3) Stimulus 2 remains on screen while stimulus 1 disappears You can do this by presenting a new object, which would again present stim2 but deleting the previous display (it would be a copy of the previous object but with the background property set to "opaque"). This would last for a period equal to stim2 duration minus SOA. You may need to set up new attributes for the durations of the three above mentioned objects (if they are variable). I am not sure whether this has solved your problem and whether I made myself clear. In case you have any doubt or problem, feel free to write again. If you don't like the idea of using two separate procedures, it would not be difficult to merge them into a single one by increasing the number of the attributes. Hope this helps, Francisco Tornay From ahestvik at gc.cuny.edu Wed Jun 5 00:10:11 2002 From: ahestvik at gc.cuny.edu (Arild Hestvik) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:10:11 -0700 Subject: E-Prime + Neuroscan Message-ID: We are able to use E-Prime to put down markers in the continuous EEG file in a Neuroscan system (Acquire version 4.2), and will attempt to replace STIM with E-Prime. STIM appears to use certain conventions for coding trialnumbers and trialtype, etc. Does anyone else out there use E-Prime with Neuroscan, and if so, could they send us a small demoprogram so that we can look at how others do this? Thanks, Arild Hestvik CUNY Graduate Center, Developmental Psycholinguistics Lab From ftornay at ugr.es Wed Jun 5 10:06:59 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:06:59 +0200 Subject: problems Message-ID: At 18:34 31/05/02 -0400, you wrote: >Help! I am a new user to e-prime and programmed an experiment in = >e-studio. However, now the application will not open, for some reason, = >and I did not make a back up copy. The e-basic script is still = >available; is there a way to open up e-studio from the script? I am not = >done programming yet, and do not want to start from scratch. >Thanks! I can't help much about that. It just occurs to me that the key factor is whether you have the e-studio file. If so, just try to reinstall e-prime ( choose the repair option in the setup program, which you will find in windows control panel) if e-studio continues to fail and then try to open the file again. > In addition to that dilemma, I also wanted to know if there was a = >way to randomize location of stimuli. I have a working memory paradigm = >in which I show two stimuli (which I have on a slide right now) , then a = >fixation, then a probe. The probe is either the same or a different = >object from the first two stimuli. I need to randomize the location of = >the first two stimuli, but I need to relate the probe location to the = >location of the first two stimuli; it needs to be either in the same = >location, nearby, or far away from the first stimuli. =20 [snipped] Just set up two attributes, one for the location of the first stimulus, another one for that of the second stimulus: call them Location1 and Location2 The values of the two attributes would be locations acceptable for the X (or Y) properties of the objects presenting the stimuli. This would be either numbers of pixels or percentages of the screen size. I would recommend the latter solution. For example you might have the following rows in your list object. Location1 Location2 25% 25% 25% 75% 75% 75% 75% 25% Rows 1 and 3 would be examples of trials on which both stimuli appear at the same location. Rows 2 and 4 are examples of different-location trials. Then you would set the X property (on the frame tab) of the stimulus 1 object to [Location1] and the same property in stimulus 2 object to [Location 2]. In our lab, we have used the above-mentioned procedure in order to implement a costs and benefits paradigm. Yours, Francisco Tornay From ftornay at ugr.es Wed Jun 5 10:06:47 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:06:47 +0200 Subject: using canvas for presenting stimuli Message-ID: At 20:39 21/05/02 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, >Does anybody know if it's possible to present stimuli via an Image or >Slide display which would use a canvas object defined in an Inline >script? >The problem is that I have a lot of different stimuli with random >shapes, colors and locations on the screen. They are easily created by >writing E-basic script, but then I'd like to present the created canvas >using a standard Image or Slide object, because it's much easier for >timing, data collection, etc. >It seems though that I have to use files only as images with these >objects. Does anybody know a way to avoid this and use a canvas? >Thanks. >Svetlana. I don't know of any way of doing it. It is an interesting question. However, what I usually do is just write to the canvas in an inline object and then use a wait object, which takes care of timing and response collection just as easily as an image or slide object. Have you got any difficulty with this solution? If you explain which it is, I could try to figure out how to get around it. Hope this helps, Francisco Tornay From ftornay at ugr.es Wed Jun 5 10:26:35 2002 From: ftornay at ugr.es (Francisco =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9?= Tornay) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:26:35 +0200 Subject: Oops!: DUAL task experiment Message-ID: I'm sorry, I made a mistake when describing the procedure, I wrote: >Procedure for SOA < stim1. It is a copy of the other procedure except for >the following: > >Object 1) Stimulus 1 appears for an interval equals to SOA (whether fixed >or varied by an attribute) >Object 2) Stimulus 2 appears without deleting stimulus 1 (set background >property to "transparent" and make sure both stimuli do not >overlap, change the X and Y properties). This object (textdisplay >or whatever) would remain for a period equal to SOA minus stim1 >duration). >Object 3) Stimulus 2 remains on screen while stimulus 1 disappears > You can do this by presenting a new object, which would again > present stim2 but deleting the previous display (it would be a > copy of the previous object but with the background property set > to "opaque"). > This would last for a period equal to stim2 duration minus SOA. The last line is wrong, object 3 should last for a period equal to stim2 duration minus the duration of object 2. The point is: Object1 duration = SOA (stim1 appears alone) Object1 duration + Object2 duration = stim1 duration (it is the period in which stim1 stays on screen, either alone or with stim2). Object2 duration + Object3 duration = stim2 duration (Stim2 remains on screen along both objects). Francisco Tornay From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 5 13:11:44 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:11:44 -0400 Subject: using canvas for presenting stimuli Message-ID: Svetlana, Try using the Canvas.SaveImage call to save the contents of a canvas as a bmp file after it is drawn. This will work with both offscreen canvases as well as the primary display canvas. You can then do all of your drawing and saving at the beginning of the session/block/trial and then load the image up later in your paradigm. Regards, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Svetlana V Gromenkova [mailto:svg211 at nyu.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 8:40 PM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: using canvas for presenting stimuli > > > Hello, > Does anybody know if it's possible to present stimuli via an Image or > Slide display which would use a canvas object defined in an Inline > script? > The problem is that I have a lot of different stimuli with random > shapes, colors and locations on the screen. They are easily > created by > writing E-basic script, but then I'd like to present the > created canvas > using a standard Image or Slide object, because it's much easier for > timing, data collection, etc. > It seems though that I have to use files only as images with these > objects. Does anybody know a way to avoid this and use a canvas? > Thanks. > Svetlana. > > > > From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 5 13:30:52 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:30:52 -0400 Subject: Terminating 1 procedure in a List Message-ID: David, I think the easiest way to do this is to check at the beginning of the trial if the current trial type is allowed and then exit the procedure without running if it not, e.g. keep an attribute that indicates the trial type (which presumably you already have) and also keep a global array or string of the trial types you want to allow (if you use a string check out the Item$() function in E-Basic Help to help you rip through the string w/o having to write your own parsing code). If the trial type is not allowed then just call Exit Sub. In the following example I assume the existence of a Function that checks a condition against a list of valid conditions and returns True or False if the trial condition is allowed. If Not IsTrialTypeAllowed( c.GetAttrib("TrialType") ) Then Exit Sub End If This will cause the list to sample again, but because you never allow the procedure to end you will not get anything logged in the data file, e.g. it is as if the trial did not exist. The only downside to this is a small potential increase in your inter-trial-interval. If you need to control for that you should be able to use the cumulative timing mode and prerelease features on the last object in the trial to make this more consistent. Regards, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: David Hairston [mailto:dhair at wfubmc.edu] > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 12:09 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Terminating 1 procedure in a List > > > I am designing an experiment in which it will be necessary to > "permanently" terminate (i.e., no more sampling) individual > Procedures within the same List as some criterion is met. > For example, assume 4 procedures, A, B, C, and D. When X > incorrect responses occur during Proc A, B-D continue, until > the same occurs for each independently. Any suggestions as > to how to do this? > > I have attemped using script to use the SetWeight method on > the Factor object to reset the weight of the current > procedure to 0, effectively removing it from the list. This > is done in an Inline at the end of each procedure, if that > matters. This *seems* to work, except that 1.) it takes 1 > more sample before dropping out, and more crucially 2.) when > all procedure weights are set to 0 (i.e., after last one hits > criterion) E-Prime crashes and I get a lovely Windows error > saying that an illegal operation has been performed.... > ...I'm guessing this is because its going back for another > sample and discovers it can't because there are none. > Anybody have a suggestion on how to do this, or why it is > looking to take 1 more sample after (theoretically) the > weight has been set to 0? > > Thanks, > Dave > > From psudevan at uwsp.edu Wed Jun 5 15:48:19 2002 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:48:19 -0500 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Hello, I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one else was doing it. Regards, P Sudevan University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point From dhair at wfubmc.edu Wed Jun 5 15:53:25 2002 From: dhair at wfubmc.edu (David Hairston) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:53:25 -0400 Subject: Archives Message-ID: I know they're being archived here - this is how I came across this list in teh first place... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/eprime.html -----Original Message----- From: Sudevan, Padmanabhan [mailto:psudevan at uwsp.edu] Sent: Wed 05/06/2002 11:48 AM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: Subject: RE: Archives Hello, I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one else was doing it. Regards, P Sudevan University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point From psudevan at uwsp.edu Wed Jun 5 15:56:47 2002 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:56:47 -0500 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Splendid! Thanks, David, I will check it out. Sudevan -----Original Message----- From: David Hairston [mailto:dhair at wfubmc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:53 AM To: Sudevan, Padmanabhan; eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: RE: Archives I know they're being archived here - this is how I came across this list in teh first place... http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/eprime.html -----Original Message----- From: Sudevan, Padmanabhan [mailto:psudevan at uwsp.edu] Sent: Wed 05/06/2002 11:48 AM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: Subject: RE: Archives Hello, I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one else was doing it. Regards, P Sudevan University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 5 16:57:24 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:57:24 -0400 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Padmanabhan, While a number of the PST technical and development staff actively participate in these discussions this listserver is administrated and operated totally independent of PST. I expect the listserver administrator would be able to make an archive available if it does not already exist somewhere. Dr. MacWhinney or listserver admin, Could you perhaps comment on this issue? Thanks, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Sudevan, Padmanabhan [mailto:psudevan at uwsp.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:48 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: RE: Archives > > > > Hello, > > I wonder if the questions and responses that are being placed > on this list and circulated to E-Prime users are being > archived in the E-Prime Tech Support site. There is a fair > amount of useful information here and I, for one, would hate > to see it lost. I did notice some questions and answers in > the archive at the Tech Support Site, but it did not appear > to be anywhere near as large as the volume of mail indicates. > I'd appreciate any information that the Tech Support site > folks might have on this. I was actually considering saving > these queries and responses in a file on my own, if no one > else was doing it. > > Regards, > > P Sudevan > University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point > > > > From macw at cmu.edu Thu Jun 6 23:05:28 2002 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:05:28 -0400 Subject: Archives In-Reply-To: <8A4A15FB180CB4418AEF817150DDA19302894468@ems6.uwsp.edu> Message-ID: Dear Sudevan, Tony, and David, Just to elaborate on David's pointer to the LinguistList archive, you might note that, if you go to http://step.psy.cmu.edu/eprime.html you will see that a pointer is given there to the location where E-Prime messages are being archived. We have been archiving them since the initiation of the list and have had a pointer to the archive at this spot from the beginning. --Brian MacWhinney From svg211 at nyu.edu Fri Jun 7 01:52:31 2002 From: svg211 at nyu.edu (Svetlana V Gromenkova) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:52:31 -0400 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: Hello, Did anybody make any experiments with colored objects? I need to present objects with four different colors, but I'm just unable to find/create four colors which would be equivalent on all characteristics (luminance, brightness, etc.) and still be readily distinguishable from each other. Besides, they should be easily perceived even when presented at a rate of 100 msec. The best I could find is white, yellow, black and blue on a grey background, but honestly only white and yellow are good. Black and blue are less prominent, because darker. If anybody had colors in their experiments, I would really appreciate it if you could tell me which colors you used. Thank you. Svetlana. From asa8 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Jun 7 07:20:25 2002 From: asa8 at leicester.ac.uk (Andrews, A.S.) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:20:25 +0100 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: Svetlana I have 6 colours that I use on a black background. These are equi-salient and used in a Kamin-Blocking experiment. They were derived with help from a friend who is an expert in visual scales from the National Physical Laboratory in the UK. If you like I can email 'colour swatches' to you. Regards Tony Andrews. >-----Original Message----- >From: Svetlana V Gromenkova [mailto:svg211 at nyu.edu] >Sent: 07 June 2002 02:53 >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: colors in E-prime > > >Hello, >Did anybody make any experiments with colored objects? >I need to present objects with four different colors, but I'm just >unable to find/create four colors which would be equivalent on all >characteristics (luminance, brightness, etc.) and still be readily >distinguishable from each other. Besides, they should be easily >perceived even when presented at a rate of 100 msec. >The best I could find is white, yellow, black and blue on a grey >background, but honestly only white and yellow are good. Black >and blue >are less prominent, because darker. >If anybody had colors in their experiments, I would really appreciate >it if you could tell me which colors you used. >Thank you. >Svetlana. > > > > From psudevan at uwsp.edu Fri Jun 7 16:25:57 2002 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:25:57 -0500 Subject: Archives Message-ID: Thanks, Brian. I am really glad that the information exchanged by various users is archived. It makes sense for one to search the archives first if one has a question. Great work! Sudevan -----Original Message----- From: Brian MacWhinney [mailto:macw at cmu.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 6:05 PM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Re: Archives Dear Sudevan, Tony, and David, Just to elaborate on David's pointer to the LinguistList archive, you might note that, if you go to http://step.psy.cmu.edu/eprime.html you will see that a pointer is given there to the location where E-Prime messages are being archived. We have been archiving them since the initiation of the list and have had a pointer to the archive at this spot from the beginning. --Brian MacWhinney From jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com Fri Jun 7 20:33:22 2002 From: jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com (Jeff Szuhay) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:33:22 -0400 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: >Did anybody make any experiments with colored objects? >I need to present objects with four different colors, but I'm just >unable to find/create four colors which would be equivalent on all >characteristics (luminance, brightness, etc.) and still be readily >distinguishable from each other. Besides, they should be easily >perceived even when presented at a rate of 100 msec. >The best I could find is white, yellow, black and blue on a grey >background, but honestly only white and yellow are good. Black and blue >are less prominent, because darker. >If anybody had colors in their experiments, I would really appreciate >it if you could tell me which colors you used. Be aware that all colors are not equal to the human eye. About 55% of human eye color cells (cones) detect green About 40% of them detect red, and about 5% of them detect blue. However, on a computer screen red, blue and green are equally represented to give the widest range of colors possible (regardless how the human eye detects them). You could try for your 3 colors: pure red, pure green, and pure blue and then use white (which will be more intense since it is all three of them) or a less intense grey (each of red, green and blue at 1/3 their "pure" values). Jeff Sz. -- Jeff Szuhay Lead Macintosh Engineer voice: 412-271-5040 x 227 Psychology Software Tools From jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com Fri Jun 7 20:36:14 2002 From: jeff.szuhay at pstnet.com (Jeff Szuhay) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 16:36:14 -0400 Subject: colors in E-prime Message-ID: At 8:20 AM +0100 6/7/02, Andrews, A.S. wrote: >I have 6 colours that I use on a black background. These are equi-salient and used in a Kamin-Blocking experiment. They were derived with help from a friend who is an expert in visual scales from the National Physical Laboratory in the UK. > >If you like I can email 'colour swatches' to you. Could you please post the RGB values to this list. This is very handy info to know. Jeff Sz. -- Jeff Szuhay Lead Macintosh Engineer voice: 412-271-5040 x 227 Psychology Software Tools From spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org Fri Jun 14 16:26:59 2002 From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org (spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:26:59 -0500 Subject: Interrupting a trial (was Starting where I left off Message-ID: >The TrialList should have enough samples available for what you would >need over the entire experiment, "Reset at the beginning of each Run" >set to off, and Exit List set to "After 30 seconds". Tony, Thanks for your response. I tried this and it worked just fine. However, >Note that this time limit will not halt a trial in the middle if it expires at that >time, e.g. the setting is essentially saying "before starting the next >trial see if there is any time left - if there is even 1 msec left it >will run another complete trial (if this is a problem for your study >there are other ways around it but that can be another posting if need >be). That is exactly what I want to do. If a trial is in progress when the 30-second time limit is up, I'd like to be able to stop the trial and go on to the next procedure. Any advice? Stephen Palmer Dept. of Symptom Research M.D. Anderson Cancer Center "Tony Zuccolotto" on 05/31/2002 09:56:57 AM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org cc: (bcc: Stephen N. Palmer/MDACC) Subject: RE: Starting where I left off Stephan, Give that a try and see what secondary problems you run into. Regards, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org [mailto:spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org] > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:13 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Starting where I left off > > > > > I am trying to program a mental rotation task in which > subjects will perform the > task in 30-second blocks. In each trial, the subject will be > shown two > 3-dimensional images and asked to judge whether or not the > images are the same > or different. Each block will consist of as many trials as > the subject can > complete in 30 seconds. > > My question is, how do I program E-Prime to begin the next > block where the first > block left off? For example, if the subject completes > trials 1 through 6 in > the first block, how do I make the next block start with trial 7? > > I would appreciate any advice you could give. > > Stephen Palmer > Dept. of Symptom Research > M.D. Anderson Cancer Center > > > > From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Fri Jun 14 17:41:35 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:41:35 -0400 Subject: Interrupting a trial (was Starting where I left off Message-ID: Stephen, The only way I think you can really do this second step currently at a finer resolution is to... * before the trial sequence starts, set a global variable that represents the end time of the trial sequence, e.g. g_nEndTime = Clock.Read + 30000 ' end time 30 seconds from now (there are ways to get more precise on this, e.g. use the OnsetTime of the first object to execute on the first trial of the sequence as your true start point. * use an InLine between each object in the trial sequence to check if the time has expired e.g. if Clock.Read >= g_nEndTime. To get to the InLines as fast as possible you may want to set your PreRelease times on most of your trial sequence objects to be the same as your Duration, e.g. this has the effect of letting the object present its stimuli and enable any associated input masks and then continue. (Note in most cases you can probably re-use the same inline throughout the trial sequence) * if you find that time has expired then use the IsPending method on any potentially active input masks (see InputMask.IsPending) and terminate them useing InputMask.Terminate * if you want the current "partial" trial logged then use a goto to jump to a label at the very end of the trial, otherwise call Exit Sub to avoid the implicit logging that occurs at the end of a trial sequence. Regards, Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org [mailto:spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org] > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 12:27 PM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Interrupting a trial (was Starting where I left off > > > > > >The TrialList should have enough samples available for what you would > >need over the entire experiment, "Reset at the beginning of each Run" > >set to off, and Exit List set to "After 30 seconds". > > Tony, > > Thanks for your response. I tried this and it worked just > fine. However, > > >Note that this time limit will not halt a trial in the > middle if it expires at > that > >time, e.g. the setting is essentially saying "before > starting the next > >trial see if there is any time left - if there is even 1 msec left it > >will run another complete trial (if this is a problem for your study > >there are other ways around it but that can be another > posting if need > >be). > > That is exactly what I want to do. If a trial is in progress > when the 30-second > time limit is up, I'd like to be able to stop the trial and > go on to the next > procedure. Any advice? > > Stephen Palmer > Dept. of Symptom Research > M.D. Anderson Cancer Center > > > > > > > > > "Tony Zuccolotto" on > 05/31/2002 09:56:57 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > > cc: (bcc: Stephen N. Palmer/MDACC) > > > > Subject: RE: Starting where I left off > > > > > > > > > Stephan, > > > Give that a try and see what secondary problems you run into. > > Regards, > Tony > > *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY > REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** > Anthony P. Zuccolotto > Vice President of Operations > Psychology Software Tools, Inc. > 2050 Ardmore Boulevard > Suite 200 > Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 > Phone 412-271-5040 > FAX 412-271-7077 > Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com > Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org > [mailto:spalmer at mail.mdanderson.org] > > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:13 AM > > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > > Subject: Starting where I left off > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to program a mental rotation task in which > > subjects will perform the > > task in 30-second blocks. In each trial, the subject will be > > shown two > > 3-dimensional images and asked to judge whether or not the > > images are the same > > or different. Each block will consist of as many trials as > > the subject can > > complete in 30 seconds. > > > > My question is, how do I program E-Prime to begin the next > > block where the first > > block left off? For example, if the subject completes > > trials 1 through 6 in > > the first block, how do I make the next block start with trial 7? > > > > I would appreciate any advice you could give. > > > > Stephen Palmer > > Dept. of Symptom Research > > M.D. Anderson Cancer Center > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw Sun Jun 16 13:45:03 2002 From: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw (Stephen Lai) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:45:03 +0800 Subject: How to design a paradigm with different onset primes? Message-ID: Hi, I am currently now developing a cross-modal priming paradigm ( image (prime) -- autitory (target)). I want to set up two conditions: (1). Stimulus onset= 0msec; that is, the prime and the target appear simultaneously, but I just want the prime to appear for 300 msec... This cannot be done in a "Slide" since I cannot control the duration of the image. So, how can I do this without using a "Slide"? Actually, I have no idea about how to set different onset conditions. For example, I want the prime to appear simultaneously with the target.. or let the prime to appear around the middle or the late part of the target..... Can anyohe help me ? Stephen Lai Stephen Y.D. Lai Graduate Institute of Linguistics National Chung Cheng University Min-Hsiung, Chia-Yi 621 TAIWAN, ROC Email: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw From g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw Sun Jun 16 13:55:53 2002 From: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw (Stephen Lai) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:55:53 +0800 Subject: Question about how to set a paradigm of different onset primes? Message-ID: Hi, I am currently now developing a cross-modal priming paradigm ( image (prime) -- autitory (target)). I want to set up two conditions: (1). Stimulus onset= 0msec; that is, the prime and the target appear simultaneously, but I just want the prime to appear for 300 msec... This cannot be done in a "Slide" since I cannot control the duration of the image. So, how can I do this without using a "Slide"? Actually, I have no idea about how to set different onset conditions. For example, I want the prime to appear simultaneously with the target.. or let the prime to appear around the middle or the late part of the target..... Can anyohe help me ? Stephen Lai Stephen Y.D. Lai Graduate Institute of Linguistics National Chung Cheng University Min-Hsiung, Chia-Yi 621 TAIWAN, ROC Email: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw From mboultbee at hotmail.com Mon Jun 17 11:13:02 2002 From: mboultbee at hotmail.com (Melanie Boultbee) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:13:02 -0400 Subject: Eprime Digest - 06/16/02 Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Mon Jun 17 13:55:48 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:55:48 -0400 Subject: Question about how to set a paradigm of different onset primes? Message-ID: Hi Stephen, I think you still want to stick with a Slide, e.g. at least to implement a simultaneous onset of multiple modality stimuli. The trick here is to adjust the Duration on the Slide to the smallest Duration of any of the stimuli on the slide. While you can't adjust the Duration of any single subobject on the Slide, you can specify it for the entire Slide. At the end of the Slide.Duration you can then either clear the visual stimulus via script or alternatively run another slide that is similarly arranged so it clears the stimulus. You may have to control the StopAfter setting on the SoundOut subobject to make sure sound continues to play after the Slide's duration is over. If you just want to clear the entire screen you could run a TextDisplay with nothing on it, or in script you could... Sleep 500 ' however long you want to wait until after the Slide ends. Display.WaitForVerticalBlank Display.Canvas.Clear If you just want to clear individual visual stimuli out of N stimuli that were presented on a Slide you can do something like the following ' Assuming you have a Slide named MySlide with 2 Text objects on it (Text1 and Text2). ' Assume this script is in an Inline after the Slide runs. Set MySlide_SlideText = CSlideText(MySlide.States.Item("Default").Objects("Text1")) Sleep 500 Display.WaitForVerticalBlank MySlide_SlideText.Clear Set MySlide_SlideText = CSlideText(MySlide.States.Item("Default").Objects("Text2")) Sleep 500 Display.WaitForVerticalBlank MySlide_SlideText.Clear The above script will clear Text1 500ms after the Slide ends and then Text2 will clear 500 msec after Text1 is cleared. If you have the TimeLimit property set correctly and the StopAfter property on any SoundOut object then inputs and auditory stimuli that were initiated by the Slide will continue over this inline. Depending on how precise you need to be you may want to change the Sleep commands to use Clock.Read instead, e.g. if you set the Slide.Duration to 300 but you want something to happen 500msec after its onset you can do the timing like... Dim nEndTime As Long ' Calculate end time nEndTime = Slide.OnsetTime + 500 Do DoEvents Loop Until Clock.Read >= nEndTime If you need to see how to manipulate objects on a Slide via script I would recommend you write a small paradigm with just 1 slide on it, vary the properties you are interested in, generate the script, and then examine the Full Script, e.g. if your slide is named MySlide then search for MySlide.Run and the script right before the call to the Run method should show you how to access the property you are interested in. Hope that helps, Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Lai [mailto:g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw] > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:56 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Question about how to set a paradigm of different > onset primes? > > > Hi, > I am currently now developing a cross-modal priming paradigm ( image > (prime) -- autitory (target)). > I want to set up two conditions: > (1). Stimulus onset= 0msec; that is, the prime and the target appear > simultaneously, but I just want the prime to appear for 300 msec... > This cannot be done in a "Slide" since I cannot control the > duration of the > image. So, how can I do this without using a "Slide"? > > Actually, I have no idea about how to set different onset > conditions. For > example, I want the prime to appear simultaneously with the target.. > or let the prime to appear around the middle or the late part of the > target..... > > Can anyohe help me ? > > Stephen Lai > Stephen Y.D. Lai > Graduate Institute of Linguistics > National Chung Cheng University > Min-Hsiung, Chia-Yi 621 > TAIWAN, ROC > Email: g8915013 at ccunix.ccu.edu.tw > > > > > > From DJ.Pettigrew at ulster.ac.uk Mon Jun 24 15:09:07 2002 From: DJ.Pettigrew at ulster.ac.uk (David Pettigrew) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:09:07 GMT Subject: blank attr Message-ID: I am trying to present a list of word individually on screen to make a sentence. Some sentences have 14 words, others as little as 8. These blank attributes appear as "?" as default. I need to filter these blank attributes so they arent displayed. Many thanks Dave Pettigrew From mark.blair at asu.edu Mon Jun 24 16:50:04 2002 From: mark.blair at asu.edu (Mark Blair) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:50:04 -0700 Subject: blank attr Message-ID: Dave, I don't know how to filter blanks, but assuming you want the sentences randomly presented, you could try using a set of nested lists where each sub-list has only sentences of the same length. You could weight the sub-lists by how many sentences are in the list so that they still have equal opportunity to be chosen. Good Luck, Mark Blair. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pettigrew" To: Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: blank attr > I am trying to present a list of word individually on screen to make > a sentence. Some sentences have 14 words, others as little as 8. > These blank attributes appear as "?" as default. I need to filter > these blank attributes so they arent displayed. > > Many thanks > > Dave Pettigrew > > > From devo0023 at tc.umn.edu Wed Jun 26 13:27:30 2002 From: devo0023 at tc.umn.edu (Cynthia J DeVore) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:27:30 -0500 Subject: Blank Attr Message-ID: Sorry, I thought I could send attachments. I've sent the .es file to David. If anyone else wants it, just e-mail me directly. Cynthia J. DeVore Graduate Student U of MN - Industrial/Organizational Psychology devo0023 at tc.umn.edu From JPatte at lsuhsc.edu Wed Jun 26 13:28:02 2002 From: JPatte at lsuhsc.edu (Patterson, James) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:28:02 -0500 Subject: Conversion utility Message-ID: Is there an easy way to convert from Eprime b5 paradigms to V1.0? I have found that most of my scripts will no longer work, and I am having to redo them from scratch. =========================================== James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD Director of PET Neuroimaging Research PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation Assistant Professor of Psychiatry Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry 318-675-6148 - fax 318-675-4000 - PET Center 318-675-4020 - fax =========================================== From anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Wed Jun 26 15:17:43 2002 From: anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com (Tony Zuccolotto) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:17:43 -0400 Subject: Conversion utility Message-ID: Dr. Patterson, Are you having problems with "straight E-Prime paradigms" or are you trying to convert paradigms that are using Net Station and/or IFIS? If your paradigms are using IFIS or Net Station then I would recommend contacting PST technical support for further direct assistance. If these are straight E-Prime paradigms however, then typically just loading the paradigms into E-Prime 1.0 will do the conversion successfully. Even if there is something that doesn't automatically convert within script that you wrote, the scope of the change is often just a few lines in an isolated area. Can you post a few of the lines that are causing problems? I guess in general I would recommend taking a close look at the exact cause of this problem before I would start recreating the paradigms from scratch, e.g. it might be as simple as one global replace that you can do through find & replace within the script window and it would take care of the problem. Thanks Tony *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** Anthony P. Zuccolotto Vice President of Operations Psychology Software Tools, Inc. 2050 Ardmore Boulevard Suite 200 Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 Phone 412-271-5040 FAX 412-271-7077 Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Patterson, James [mailto:JPatte at lsuhsc.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:28 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: Conversion utility > > > Is there an easy way to convert from Eprime b5 paradigms to > V1.0? I have > found that most of my scripts will no longer work, and I am > having to redo > them from scratch. > > =========================================== > James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD > Director of PET Neuroimaging Research > PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation > Assistant Professor of Psychiatry > Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport > 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry > 318-675-6148 - fax > 318-675-4000 - PET Center > 318-675-4020 - fax > =========================================== > > From JPatte at lsuhsc.edu Wed Jun 26 15:54:37 2002 From: JPatte at lsuhsc.edu (Patterson, James) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:54:37 -0500 Subject: Conversion utility AND dual version of E-Prime Message-ID: Yes, it could have been the IFIS components that were throwing things off, but that is not what caused the error messages, at least not directly. Anyway, I have the programs I need rewritten in v1.0, but now can't use them on the IFIS machines because the IFIS package is still not upgraded, and no one can give me an ETA on that. I have reverted to older versions for the IFIS hardware, and want to know if I can do the following: Can I switch from one version of Eprime (beta5) to another (v1.0) by having them installed to different directories under C:\Program Files\PST and renaming the active directory to C:\Program Files\PST\E-Prime? Thanks, James =========================================== James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD Director of PET Neuroimaging Research PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation Assistant Professor of Psychiatry Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry 318-675-6148 - fax 318-675-4000 - PET Center 318-675-4020 - fax =========================================== > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Zuccolotto [mailto:anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:18 AM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Subject: RE: Conversion utility > > > Dr. Patterson, > > Are you having problems with "straight E-Prime paradigms" or are you > trying to convert paradigms that are using Net Station and/or > IFIS? If > your paradigms are using IFIS or Net Station then I would recommend > contacting PST technical support for further direct assistance. > > If these are straight E-Prime paradigms however, then typically just > loading the paradigms into E-Prime 1.0 will do the conversion > successfully. Even if there is something that doesn't automatically > convert within script that you wrote, the scope of the change is often > just a few lines in an isolated area. Can you post a few of > the lines > that are causing problems? I guess in general I would > recommend taking > a close look at the exact cause of this problem before I would start > recreating the paradigms from scratch, e.g. it might be as > simple as one > global replace that you can do through find & replace within > the script > window and it would take care of the problem. > > Thanks > Tony > > *** DISCLAIMER: VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN AND DO NOT NECESSARILY > REFLECT THOSE OF MY EMPLOYER *** > Anthony P. Zuccolotto > Vice President of Operations > Psychology Software Tools, Inc. > 2050 Ardmore Boulevard > Suite 200 > Pittsburgh, PA 15221-4610 > Phone 412-271-5040 > FAX 412-271-7077 > Email anthony.zuccolotto at pstnet.com > Internet http://www.pstnet.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patterson, James [mailto:JPatte at lsuhsc.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:28 AM > > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > > Subject: Conversion utility > > > > > > Is there an easy way to convert from Eprime b5 paradigms to > > V1.0? I have > > found that most of my scripts will no longer work, and I am > > having to redo > > them from scratch. > > > > =========================================== > > James C. Patterson II, MD/PhD > > Director of PET Neuroimaging Research > > PET Imaging Center, Biomedical Research Foundation > > Assistant Professor of Psychiatry > > Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport > > 318-675-6040 - Psychiatry > > 318-675-6148 - fax > > 318-675-4000 - PET Center > > 318-675-4020 - fax > > =========================================== > > > > > From kmt2001 at med.cornell.edu Wed Jun 26 19:09:00 2002 From: kmt2001 at med.cornell.edu (Kathleen M. Thomas) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:09:00 -0400 Subject: Button press duration Message-ID: Does anyone have an example script for recording the duration of a button press response (mouse, keyboard, or SR Box) rather than it's occurrence? I want to record looking times for infant subjects but am not sure how to go about determining the time elapsed between button press and release. Thanks, Katie Thomas -- Kathleen M. Thomas, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Psychology in Psychiatry Sackler Institute for Developmental Psychobiology 1300 York Avenue, Box 140, Suite F-1332 New York, NY 10021 Phone: (212) 746-3648 Fax: (212) 746-5755 Email: kmt2001 at med.cornell.edu www.sacklerinstitute.org