From C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl Tue Jan 4 14:49:53 2005 From: C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl (C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:49:53 +0100 Subject: Defining colors Message-ID: Hi all, Apperently there are 16 predifined colors. This is very handy when one wants to make a list with a StimWord and StimColor attribute. But I want to define my own color, say BlueGreen = "0,38,46", and I want to use this word BlueGreen in my list instead of the string "0,38,46". Defining a Const does not do the trick. Any suggestions? C. Bonnemayer Maastricht University Dept. of Medical, Clinical and Experimental Psychology P.O. Box 616 6200 MD Maastricht The Netherlands p: +31 (0)43 3882486 f: +31 (0)43 3884155 From j.intriligator at bangor.ac.uk Wed Jan 5 13:20:42 2005 From: j.intriligator at bangor.ac.uk (James Intriligator) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:20:42 +0000 Subject: Defining colors In-Reply-To: <329A68716B57D54E8D39FD3F8A4A84DF1D3EE7@um-mail0136.unimaas.nl> Message-ID: Hi, I think you just need to use a variant of the CColor command. But, as far as using this approach in a bracket-situation (e.g. "[MyColor]"), this probably will not work... You might need some inline code instead. One thing you could try (which I have not tried yet, but might work) is to define a const that includes the CColor command in it... Strange thought, but it might work. Anyway, below are some snippets of ways CColor is used. Good Luck, james ------------------------------------------------ James Intriligator, PhD Senior Lecturer School of Psychology - Experimental Consumer Psychology University of Wales - Bangor Brigantia Building - Room 328 Bangor, Gwynedd LL57 2AS Wales, UK Tel: +44 (0)1248 383630 Fax: +44 (0)1248 382599 email: j.intriligator at bangor.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------ ========================= Set cnvs = Display.Canvas cnvs.FillColor=CColor("black")  Cnvs.PenColor = CColor("255,0,0") ========================= SlideText.ForeColor = Ccolor(c.GetAttrib("TheFrameColor")) ========================= Public Sub SetPenColorToGray(TheCanvas As Canvas, TheLevelGray as String) Dim ColorThing as String ColorThing = TheLevelGray & "," & TheLevelGray & "," TheLevelGray TheCanvas.PenColor = CColor(ColorThing) End Sub ===== On 4/1/05 2:49 pm, "C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl" wrote: > Hi all, > > Apperently there are 16 predifined colors. This is very handy when one wants > to make a list with a StimWord and StimColor attribute. But I want to define > my own color, say BlueGreen = "0,38,46", and I want to use this word > BlueGreen in my list instead of the string "0,38,46". Defining a Const does > not do the trick. > > Any suggestions? > > C. Bonnemayer > Maastricht University > Dept. of Medical, Clinical and Experimental Psychology > P.O. Box 616 > 6200 MD Maastricht > The Netherlands > p: +31 (0)43 3882486 > f: +31 (0)43 3884155 > > From m.s.cox at bham.ac.uk Wed Jan 5 14:43:05 2005 From: m.s.cox at bham.ac.uk (Mark Cox) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:43:05 -0000 Subject: Fading Images Message-ID: Does anyone know how to fade out images to a white background in E-Prime. I have created a visual search experiment that presents between 4 to 8 images on the screen at one time but I now need to adjust the experiment so that the images are faded out rather than being blanked out (this is to prevent a patient with Epilepsy having a fit whilst undertaking this experiment. Roughly the experiment runs as follows-: * Between 4-8 images are displayed on the screen for 250ms Screen is blank for 250ms Between 4-8 images are displayed on the screen for 250ms (except one image which is removed) Screen is blank for 250ms * This loop is repeated until the subject responds. The display is set to 800x600 16bit colour depth. Note 256 bit colour depth is no good because the images are 24bit. Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch Wed Jan 5 15:24:55 2005 From: martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Buschk=FChl?=) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:24:55 +0100 Subject: Combining several Experiments Message-ID: Hi, all. For a group testing session I would like to combine several experiments into one file. Problem is that the single experiments are quite complex and quite large (although I will certainly not get a "script too large"-error). I know that it is possible to copy an object in the browser, open another experiment and paste the object into that experiment. If I would do that this way I had to copy around 80-100 different objects (and bringing them together in the right order in the structure window). Is it maybe possible to open a second instance of e-run and run a second script out of an already running script or something like that? Thanks in advance for any help, Martin. -- Martin Buschkühl University of Berne Institute of Psychology Muesmattstrasse 45 3012 Bern Switzerland fon +41 (0) 31 631 47 34 fax +41 (0) 31 621 82 12 From twthompson at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 01:11:02 2005 From: twthompson at gmail.com (Todd Thompson) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:11:02 -0800 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Message-ID: Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From m.paul at bangor.ac.uk Thu Jan 6 14:52:48 2005 From: m.paul at bangor.ac.uk (Matthew Paul) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 14:52:48 -0000 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? In-Reply-To: <76b6fe2805010517116b9e895d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, put the two experiments in the same folder / directory, select them both and open them both at the same time by hitting enter on the keyboard (if you double click with the mouse it will only open one). Regards, matt --------------------------------------- Matthew Paul Centre for Cognitive Neuroscience School of Psychology University of Wales, Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2AS United Kingdom www.psychology.bangor.ac.uk --------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Todd Thompson Sent: 06 January 2005 01:11 To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From KKim at iona.edu Thu Jan 6 16:07:32 2005 From: KKim at iona.edu (Kim, Kisok) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:07:32 -0500 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Message-ID: That is very nice trick. Thank you. Is there a website that stores all these e-prime emails? -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org on behalf of Matthew Paul Sent: Thu 1/6/2005 9:52 AM To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu; eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: Subject: RE: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, put the two experiments in the same folder / directory, select them both and open them both at the same time by hitting enter on the keyboard (if you double click with the mouse it will only open one). Regards, matt --------------------------------------- Matthew Paul Centre for Cognitive Neuroscience School of Psychology University of Wales, Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2AS United Kingdom www.psychology.bangor.ac.uk --------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Todd Thompson Sent: 06 January 2005 01:11 To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Thu Jan 6 17:26:24 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 18:26:24 +0100 Subject: Combining several Experiments In-Reply-To: <41DC06C7.40302@psy.unibe.ch> Message-ID: Hi Martin, Would it help if you could put your experiments into one batch file and run them sequentially? You could try a small command line utility I've made a while ago, which puts some code in your script to specify subject and session numbers without user intervention. This also prevents mixing all the output data into one large file. This ustility can be downloaded at: http://www.psy.vu.nl/download/menu/xml/eprime_tool_ekick.xml best , paul Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam >From: Martin Buschkühl >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: Combining several Experiments >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:24:55 +0100 > >Hi, all. For a group testing session I would like to combine several >experiments into one file. Problem is that the single experiments are quite >complex and quite large (although I will certainly not get a "script too >large"-error). I know that it is possible to copy an object in the browser, >open another experiment and paste the object into that experiment. If I >would do that this way I had to copy around 80-100 different objects (and >bringing them together in the right order in the structure window). Is it >maybe possible to open a second instance of e-run and run a second script >out of an already running script or something like that? > >Thanks in advance for any help, > >Martin. > >-- >Martin Buschkühl >University of Berne >Institute of Psychology >Muesmattstrasse 45 >3012 Bern >Switzerland > >fon +41 (0) 31 631 47 34 >fax +41 (0) 31 621 82 12 > > > _________________________________________________________________ Spreek vrienden en familie met MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From twthompson at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 00:17:57 2005 From: twthompson at gmail.com (Todd Thompson) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:17:57 -0800 Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files Message-ID: Sorry to deluge the mailing list, but I have one more hopefully simple ePrime question: I want to run the same experiment six times, changing the stimuli with each run. I'd like to populate my lists from one of the six input files dynamically, depending on the run number. Is this possible? Here are the things I tried that didn't work: 1) I set the list load method to File, then put a variable "[var]" in the list filename field -- this gave an error message saying "reference to attribute not permitted" 2) I left the list load method as embedded in the GUI, then created an inline block of code that looked like this: PassiveTrials.loadmethod = ebLoadMethodFile PassiveTrials.filename = "PassiveBlock1.txt" PassiveTrials.load This ran my embedded list and ignored my attempts to load a new list. I know I can solve this problem other ways (via nested lists, for example), but I like being able to generate/maintain my stimuli externally, if I'm working on a computer without ePrime installed. Sorry if this is an overly simple question. I'm finding the ePrime help files and documentation somewhat inadequate... Thanks for any help, Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From asa8 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Jan 7 08:53:19 2005 From: asa8 at leicester.ac.uk (Andrews, A.S.) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 08:53:19 -0000 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Message-ID: Hi Matt That's Brilliant! I don't know why I never thought of it. I've only ever managed to copy code via notepad before. Thanks a million - I know that is going to be handy. Best Regards Tony Andrews Senior Computer Officer School of Psychology University of Leicester ________________________________ From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org on behalf of Matthew Paul Sent: Thu 06/01/2005 14:52 To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu; eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: RE: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, put the two experiments in the same folder / directory, select them both and open them both at the same time by hitting enter on the keyboard (if you double click with the mouse it will only open one). Regards, matt --------------------------------------- Matthew Paul Centre for Cognitive Neuroscience School of Psychology University of Wales, Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2AS United Kingdom www.psychology.bangor.ac.uk --------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Todd Thompson Sent: 06 January 2005 01:11 To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch Fri Jan 7 09:37:39 2005 From: martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Buschk=FChl?=) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:37:39 +0100 Subject: Combining several Experiments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul: Thank you very much for your answer. With EKick and a couple of lines in a batch file I am able to combine the experiments. This solution costs me a fraction of time of everything I was thinking of. Thanks again! best regards, Martin. Paul Gr wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Would it help if you could put your experiments into one batch file > and run them sequentially? You could try a small command line utility > I've made a while ago, which puts some code in your script to specify > subject and session numbers without user intervention. This also > prevents mixing all the output data into one large file. > > This ustility can be downloaded at: > http://www.psy.vu.nl/download/menu/xml/eprime_tool_ekick.xml > > > best , > paul > > Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam > > >> From: Martin Buschkühl >> To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >> Subject: Combining several Experiments >> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:24:55 +0100 >> >> Hi, all. For a group testing session I would like to combine several >> experiments into one file. Problem is that the single experiments are >> quite complex and quite large (although I will certainly not get a >> "script too large"-error). I know that it is possible to copy an >> object in the browser, open another experiment and paste the object >> into that experiment. If I would do that this way I had to copy >> around 80-100 different objects (and bringing them together in the >> right order in the structure window). Is it maybe possible to open a >> second instance of e-run and run a second script out of an already >> running script or something like that? >> >> Thanks in advance for any help, >> >> Martin. >> >> -- >> Martin Buschkühl >> University of Berne >> Institute of Psychology >> Muesmattstrasse 45 >> 3012 Bern >> Switzerland >> >> fon +41 (0) 31 631 47 34 >> fax +41 (0) 31 621 82 12 >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Spreek vrienden en familie met MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > > From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Fri Jan 7 16:47:40 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 17:47:40 +0100 Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files In-Reply-To: <76b6fe280501061617294ac669@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Todd, here is an example code snippet, which fills a list object from an external file. You should set the filename variable (strFilename) before this code and insert it as an inline object at the beginning of your experiment. ' load stimulus definitions, or use embedded defaults If Len(strStimuliDefinitionFile)>0 then Debug.Print "Loading stimuli definitions file: " & strStimuliDefinitionFile lstStimuli.LoadMethod = ebLoadMethodFile lstStimuli.Filename = strStimuliDefinitionFile lstStimuli.Load lstStimuli.Reset End If Note that EPrime is very sensitive about the format and contents of the external file. The first line should contain the attribute names. Including Weight, Nested and Procedure. All names and values should be separated by a tab character, not spaces. Also, prevent extra tabs and spaces at the end of the lines, and empty lines at the end of the file. cheers, Paul Groot. Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam >From: Todd Thompson >Reply-To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu >To: "eprime at mail.talkbank.org" >Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:17:57 -0800 > >Sorry to deluge the mailing list, but I have one more hopefully simple >ePrime question: > >I want to run the same experiment six times, changing the stimuli with >each run. I'd like to populate my lists from one of the six input >files dynamically, depending on the run number. > >Is this possible? Here are the things I tried that didn't work: >1) I set the list load method to File, then put a variable "[var]" in >the list filename field -- this gave an error message saying >"reference to attribute not permitted" >2) I left the list load method as embedded in the GUI, then created an >inline block of code that looked like this: >PassiveTrials.loadmethod = ebLoadMethodFile >PassiveTrials.filename = "PassiveBlock1.txt" >PassiveTrials.load >This ran my embedded list and ignored my attempts to load a new list. > >I know I can solve this problem other ways (via nested lists, for >example), but I like being able to generate/maintain my stimuli >externally, if I'm working on a computer without ePrime installed. > >Sorry if this is an overly simple question. I'm finding the ePrime >help files and documentation somewhat inadequate... > >Thanks for any help, >Todd > >---- >Todd Thompson >Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute >University of California, Berkeley > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger: altijd en overal beschikbaar http://webmessenger.msn.com/ From twthompson at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 22:17:19 2005 From: twthompson at gmail.com (Todd Thompson) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:17:19 -0800 Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the help! I've gotten my script to work, for now. Ultimately, I had two problems: 1) I was missing the List.Reset call. 2) My reset/sampling method on the list was set to "all". I assumed the necessary number of samples would be recalcuated after the list was reset. This does not seem to happen. To work around this, I had to either have the correct number of "dummy rows" in the list before the file was processed, or have an inline instruction to update the List.ResetCondition after the file is loaded. The latter method is probably more robust. In any case, thanks again, and I hope this saves someone else some time! Todd On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:47:40 +0100, Paul Gr wrote: > Hi Todd, > > here is an example code snippet, which fills a list object from an external > file. You should set the filename variable (strFilename) before this code > and insert it as an inline object at the beginning of your experiment. > > ' load stimulus definitions, or use embedded defaults > If Len(strStimuliDefinitionFile)>0 then > Debug.Print "Loading stimuli definitions file: " & strStimuliDefinitionFile > lstStimuli.LoadMethod = ebLoadMethodFile > lstStimuli.Filename = strStimuliDefinitionFile > lstStimuli.Load > lstStimuli.Reset > End If > > Note that EPrime is very sensitive about the format and contents of the > external file. The first line should contain the attribute names. Including > Weight, Nested and Procedure. All names and values should be separated by a > tab character, not spaces. Also, prevent extra tabs and spaces at the end of > the lines, and empty lines at the end of the file. > > cheers, > Paul Groot. Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam > > >From: Todd Thompson > >Reply-To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu > >To: "eprime at mail.talkbank.org" > >Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files > >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:17:57 -0800 > > > >Sorry to deluge the mailing list, but I have one more hopefully simple > >ePrime question: > > > >I want to run the same experiment six times, changing the stimuli with > >each run. I'd like to populate my lists from one of the six input > >files dynamically, depending on the run number. > > > >Is this possible? Here are the things I tried that didn't work: > >1) I set the list load method to File, then put a variable "[var]" in > >the list filename field -- this gave an error message saying > >"reference to attribute not permitted" > >2) I left the list load method as embedded in the GUI, then created an > >inline block of code that looked like this: > >PassiveTrials.loadmethod = ebLoadMethodFile > >PassiveTrials.filename = "PassiveBlock1.txt" > >PassiveTrials.load > >This ran my embedded list and ignored my attempts to load a new list. > > > >I know I can solve this problem other ways (via nested lists, for > >example), but I like being able to generate/maintain my stimuli > >externally, if I'm working on a computer without ePrime installed. > > > >Sorry if this is an overly simple question. I'm finding the ePrime > >help files and documentation somewhat inadequate... > > > >Thanks for any help, > >Todd > > > >---- > >Todd Thompson > >Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute > >University of California, Berkeley > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Webmessenger: altijd en overal beschikbaar http://webmessenger.msn.com/ > > From baranan at post.tau.ac.il Sun Jan 16 13:39:05 2005 From: baranan at post.tau.ac.il (yoav Bar-Anan) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Hi, I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because a simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know they invested much effort in accuracy. I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer accurate timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be ran on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for E-Prime? Thank you, Yoav -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Sun Jan 16 22:47:59 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:47:59 +0100 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime In-Reply-To: <003201c4fbd0$bfb695c0$b2681bac@yoav> Message-ID: Hi, I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this mailing list, but I think you’re right when you say that deploying or distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies such as PST require people buying their products to be able to continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don’t forget DirectX , which is a ‘must have’ for this type of application.) As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, which don’t have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where colleagues are developing their own ‘time critical’ software libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really require in-depth expertise and lots of time Let’s hope PST (and other’s) come up with a customer-friendly solution for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source project to arise within a year or so. Best, Paul P.S.: about matlab and alternatives beside accurate response measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not sure if matlab will pass that test. >From: yoav Bar-Anan >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > >Hi, > > > >I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because a >simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. >However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and >accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know they >invested much effort in accuracy. > > > >I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer accurate >timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be ran >on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. > > > >On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for >E-Prime? > > > >Thank you, > >Yoav _________________________________________________________________ Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From esmith4 at indiana.edu Mon Jan 17 00:00:43 2005 From: esmith4 at indiana.edu (Eliot R. Smith) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:00:43 -0500 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Jan 16, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Paul Gr wrote: > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical > issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of > EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers > are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a > possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to > deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don’t forget DirectX…, which > is a ‘must have’ for this type of application.) > ... > Let’s hope PST (and other’s) come up with a customer-friendly solution > for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source > project to arise within a year or so. One excellent solution to this issue would be to create a bootable CD, perhaps based on Knoppix (http://www.knoppix.net/) . That could be configured with the right drivers, and could run on any PC without having to mess with installing a new OS or new drivers onto the hard disk. The hypothetical data-collection program could run under Linux (booted from that CD) and be configured to save data onto the workstation's hard disk, or to another computer over the network, etc. --Eliot Smith Dept. of Psychology Indiana University, Bloomington From macw at mac.com Mon Jan 17 01:12:37 2005 From: macw at mac.com (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:12:37 -0500 Subject: posting Message-ID: Paul et al., Don't worry, as list maintainer, I have no intention of applying any content censorship here. Your point about free run-time licenses or most accessible run-time usage is an interesting one. PST does have site-based run-time licenses for separate sites priced at $100, but I am guessing you think that is too high. Or are you concerned that it is clunky in some other way? When ClassMate becomes available (pretty soon, I believe) it will have similar functionality at a reduced price. Perhaps that will address your needs in part. You seem to be pushing for "royalty free runtime licensing" but you think that the ability to compile executables would be even nicer. I suppose there are some technical issues in regard to the latter that make it tough. My own point of view on this, as designer and financial supporter of first PsyScope and later E-Prime, is that software development is a significant expense, particularly in a small niche market such as Experimental Psychology. Having a sophisticated system like E-Prime is a positive for the field. Having even more powerful systems (check out the list of features for E-Prime 2.0) would be even nicer. At the same time, we always want to make sure that marketing restrictions do not impede the advance of research and creativity. Regarding ideas such as using MatLab as a replacement for E-Prime, and the previous message about just programming stuff in Basic, I guess this always depends on the programming skills of the individual, the relative simplicity of the experiment, the amount of time one wants to invest, and the level of error and other inaccuracies you are willing to tolerate. In any case, I think it is fine to post discussions of alternatives to this list. If you browse through journals such as BRMIC, you will occasionally find discussion of new programming systems and the like there too. --Brian MacWhinney, CMU On Jan 16, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Paul Gr wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this > mailing list, but I think you’re right when you say that deploying or > distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or > even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies > such as PST require people buying their products to be able to > continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty > free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not > restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even > better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. > > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical > issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of > EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers > are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a > possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to > deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don’t forget DirectX…, which > is a ‘must have’ for this type of application.) > > As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, > which don’t have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real > standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable > programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI > and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where > colleagues are developing their own ‘time critical’ software > libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really > require in-depth expertise and lots of time… > > Let’s hope PST (and other’s) come up with a customer-friendly solution > for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source > project to arise within a year or so. > > Best, > Paul > > P.S.: about matlab and alternatives… beside accurate response > measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not > sure if matlab will pass that test. > > >> From: yoav Bar-Anan >> To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >> Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime >> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, >> because a simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is >> easier to deploy. However, when an experiment requires >> response-duration recording and accurate timing of events, I always >> resort to E-Prime, because I know they invested much effort in >> accuracy. >> >> >> >> I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer >> accurate timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) >> that can be ran on most computers without installing anything but the >> experiment file. >> >> >> >> On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative >> for E-Prime? >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> Yoav > > _________________________________________________________________ > Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger > http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > From leisha at decisionresearch.org Mon Jan 17 04:09:57 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:09:57 -0500 Subject: posting Message-ID: I work for a small, nonprofit institute. It is difficult for us to afford high-level software like E-Prime, but when it's necessary, we can sometimes write it into a grant proposal. Unfortunately, many of our proposals are only partially funded. It's a difficult balancing act, and we can only hope for better scientific funding in future and meanwhile continue to work hard to acquire what we need to continue our important research. I think that the programmers at E-Prime are probably in much the same position as I am as a programmer this small institute. Since we started using E-Prime we have received several requests for the scripts we've written. It's no problem for our friends & colleagues to access our scripts for the purpose of criticism & review (although it could be easier). When one colleague wished to go further, actually using our script to obtain more data for our project, he bought a site license for $100. This was good for our institute, allowing us to obtain more data. We also use site licenses to run experiments in more than one local lab simultaneously. I've found many E-Prime scripts available on-line from various institutes, and they've been helpful to me in developing experiments for our investigators. Over all, the arrangement we have now is working. Let's hope that more funding comes pouring into scientific research from all directions, allowing us all to breathe a little freer, loosen our belts, and share our projects more easily. Leisha Wharfield Decision Research Eugene, Oregon, USA macw at mac.com wrote: > Paul et al., > Don't worry, as list maintainer, I have no intention of applying=20 > any content censorship here. Your point about free run-time licenses=20 > or most accessible run-time usage is an interesting one. PST does have=20= > > site-based run-time licenses for separate sites priced at $100, but I=20 > am guessing you think that is too high. Or are you concerned that it=20 > is clunky in some other way? When ClassMate becomes available (pretty=20= > > soon, I believe) it will have similar functionality at a reduced price.=20= > > Perhaps that will address your needs in part. You seem to be pushing=20= > > for "royalty free runtime licensing" but you think that the ability to=20= > > compile executables would be even nicer. I suppose there are some > technical issues in regard to the latter that make it tough. > My own point of view on this, as designer and financial supporter of=20= > > first PsyScope and later E-Prime, is that software development is a=20 > significant expense, particularly in a small niche market such as=20 > Experimental Psychology. Having a sophisticated system like E-Prime is=20= > > a positive for the field. Having even more powerful systems (check out=20= > > the list of features for E-Prime 2.0) would be even nicer. At the same=20= > > time, we always want to make sure that marketing restrictions do not=20 > impede the advance of research and creativity. > Regarding ideas such as using MatLab as a replacement for E-Prime,=20= > > and the previous message about just programming stuff in Basic, I guess=20= > > this always depends on the programming skills of the individual, the=20 > relative simplicity of the experiment, the amount of time one wants to=20= > > invest, and the level of error and other inaccuracies you are willing=20 > to tolerate. > In any case, I think it is fine to post discussions of alternatives=20= > > to this list. If you browse through journals such as BRMIC, you will=20 > occasionally find discussion of new programming systems and the like=20 > there too. > > --Brian MacWhinney, CMU > > On Jan 16, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Paul Gr wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this=20 > > mailing list, but I think you=92re right when you say that deploying = > or=20 > > distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or=20 > > even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies=20 > > such as PST require people buying their products to be able to=20 > > continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty=20 > > free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not=20 > > restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even=20 > > better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. > > > > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical=20= > > > issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of=20 > > EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers=20= > > > are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a=20= > > > possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to=20= > > > deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don=92t forget DirectX=85, = > which=20 > > is a =91must have=92 for this type of application.) > > > > As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives,=20 > > which don=92t have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real=20= > > > standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable=20 > > programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI=20 > > and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where=20= > > > colleagues are developing their own =91time critical=92 software=20 > > libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really=20= > > > require in-depth expertise and lots of time=85 > > > > Let=92s hope PST (and other=92s) come up with a customer-friendly = > solution=20 > > for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source=20 > > project to arise within a year or so. > > > > Best, > > Paul > > > > P.S.: about matlab and alternatives=85 beside accurate response=20 > > measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not=20 > > sure if matlab will pass that test. > > > > > >> From: yoav Bar-Anan > >> To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > >> Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime > >> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >> > >> I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments,=20 > >> because a simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is=20 > >> easier to deploy. However, when an experiment requires=20 > >> response-duration recording and accurate timing of events, I always=20= > > >> resort to E-Prime, because I know they invested much effort in=20 > >> accuracy. > >> > >> > >> > >> I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer=20 > >> accurate timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing)=20 > >> that can be ran on most computers without installing anything but the=20= > > >> experiment file. > >> > >> > >> > >> On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative=20 > >> for E-Prime? > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Yoav > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger=20 > > http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > > > > > > From psudevan at uwsp.edu Mon Jan 17 17:40:45 2005 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:40:45 -0600 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Hello all, Some general responses to this discussion thread: First, regarding Matlab, I believe Geoff Loftus' lab at the University of Washington uses a version of Matlab, along with some of their modules, for experimentation. Although the Toolkits were written separately from Matlab, my recollection is that they are available to any researcher. Second, I too understand that PST needs to be able to get revenues in order to continue doing what they are doing, and I don't feel that the costs involved, for a researcher at a small university (like myself) are exorbitant. On the other hand, I think ClassMate with its currently proposed semester fees will pose some difficulty for a campus like mine because students want to keep textbook/software costs down and we have a text rental system. Perhaps one could think of some arrangement where the software could be made available to the university at an annual cost for the use of a certain number of students -- and the university could then charge the students a reduced fee. Walter Schneider did say at Psychonomics in Minneapolis that they were still exploring alternate ways of charging users for ClassMate. Third, regarding Yoav's question on alternate systems, there is Intuit Systems Millisecond which enables folks to write their own code. The problem, as Brian points out, is that not everyone would want to write their own code. Also E-Prime is a general system that is meant to run on a variety of machines, and this generality is bought at some sacrifice, in terms of the range of things that it can do -- viz., standalone executable scripts, with attendant issues of driver compatibility etc. Sudevan P Sudevan Professor of Psychology Chair, Faculty Senate, UWSP -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Paul Gr Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 4:48 PM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: baranan at post.tau.ac.il Subject: RE: response duration, but not with EPrime Hi, I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this mailing list, but I think you're right when you say that deploying or distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies such as PST require people buying their products to be able to continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don't forget DirectX..., which is a 'must have' for this type of application.) As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, which don't have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where colleagues are developing their own 'time critical' software libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really require in-depth expertise and lots of time... Let's hope PST (and other's) come up with a customer-friendly solution for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source project to arise within a year or so. Best, Paul P.S.: about matlab and alternatives... beside accurate response measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not sure if matlab will pass that test. >From: yoav Bar-Anan >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > >Hi, > > > >I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because >a >simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. >However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and >accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know they >invested much effort in accuracy. > > > >I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer >accurate >timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be ran >on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. > > > >On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for >E-Prime? > > > >Thank you, > >Yoav _________________________________________________________________ Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From leisha at decisionresearch.org Mon Jan 17 17:49:59 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:49:59 -0500 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Despite the programming, I found Intuit very simple to use from the very beginning. Many scripts are available for it. But E-Prime, by comparison, is just so much easier & more powerful. I was able to spend more time on the graphics and the precise look of the computer task that our investigators needed, rather than wading through code looking for typos. Leisha Wharfield Decision Research Eugene, Oregon, USA psudevan at uwsp.edu wrote: > Hello all, > > Some general responses to this discussion thread: > > First, regarding Matlab, I believe Geoff Loftus' lab at the University > of Washington uses a version of Matlab, along with some of their > modules, for experimentation. Although the Toolkits were written > separately from Matlab, my recollection is that they are available to > any researcher. > > Second, I too understand that PST needs to be able to get revenues in > order to continue doing what they are doing, and I don't feel that the > costs involved, for a researcher at a small university (like myself) are > exorbitant. On the other hand, I think ClassMate with its currently > proposed semester fees will pose some difficulty for a campus like mine > because students want to keep textbook/software costs down and we have a > text rental system. Perhaps one could think of some arrangement where > the software could be made available to the university at an annual cost > for the use of a certain number of students -- and the university could > then charge the students a reduced fee. Walter Schneider did say at > Psychonomics in Minneapolis that they were still exploring alternate > ways of charging users for ClassMate. > > Third, regarding Yoav's question on alternate systems, there is Intuit > Systems Millisecond which enables folks to write their own code. The > problem, as Brian points out, is that not everyone would want to write > their own code. Also E-Prime is a general system that is meant to run on > a variety of machines, and this generality is bought at some sacrifice, > in terms of the range of things that it can do -- viz., standalone > executable scripts, with attendant issues of driver compatibility etc. > > > Sudevan > > > > P Sudevan > Professor of Psychology > Chair, Faculty Senate, UWSP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On > Behalf Of Paul Gr > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 4:48 PM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Cc: baranan at post.tau.ac.il > Subject: RE: response duration, but not with EPrime > > > Hi, > > I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this > mailing=20 > list, but I think you're right when you say that deploying or > distributing=20 > runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or even impossible. > I=20 > also realize that software developing companies such as PST require > people=20 > buying their products to be able to continue their business. I really > hope=20 > that PST will offer royalty free runtime licences in the near future, so > > EPrime users are not restricted anymore to run their scripts at their > own=20 > sites. Or even better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of=20 > scripts. > > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical > issues=20 > that require attention. For instance, the current version of EPrime uses > > special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers are required > for=20 > optimal response processing. So, even if there was a possibility to > create=20 > standalone executables, you would still have to deploy a proper runtime=20 > environment. (And don't forget DirectX..., which is a 'must have' for > this=20 > type of application.) > > As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, > which=20 > don't have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real standalone > > executables, you would have to get into a suitable programming > environment=20 > and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI and DirectX APIs. I know of > some=20 > projects at other universities, where colleagues are developing their > own=20 > 'time critical' software libraries. However, compared to using EPrime > and=20 > the like, you really require in-depth expertise and lots of time... > > Let's hope PST (and other's) come up with a customer-friendly solution > for=20 > this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source project to=20 > arise within a year or so. > > Best, > Paul > > P.S.: about matlab and alternatives... beside accurate response > measurement,=20 > you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not sure if matlab > will=20 > pass that test. > > > >From: yoav Bar-Anan > >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > >Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime > >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > >I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because=20 > >a > >simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. > > >However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and=20 > >accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know > they=20 > >invested much effort in accuracy. > > > > > > > >I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer=20 > >accurate > >timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be > ran=20 > >on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. > > > > > > > >On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for > >E-Prime? > > > > > > > >Thank you, > > > >Yoav > > _________________________________________________________________ > Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger=20 > http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > > > From baranan at post.tau.ac.il Mon Jan 17 18:24:59 2005 From: baranan at post.tau.ac.il (yoav Bar-Anan) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:24:59 +0200 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Leisha, Sudevan Thank you for your answers. I'm not sure I understood the part about "intuit": Is there an environment called "intuit", or has my English failed me? Where can I read about it? By the way I found a page that might have some answers for me, and for others too: http://psychtoolbox.org/library.html Thanks, Yoav From leisha at decisionresearch.org Mon Jan 17 19:07:46 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:07:46 -0500 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Dear Yoav, Your English does not fail you. Intuit is the name of a programming application for psychological testing, similar to E-Prime. Leisha baranan at post.tau.ac.il wrote: > Leisha, Sudevan > > Thank you for your answers. > I'm not sure I understood the part about "intuit": > Is there an environment called "intuit", or has my English failed me? Where > can I read about it? > > By the way I found a page that might have some answers for me, and for > others too: > http://psychtoolbox.org/library.html > > Thanks, > Yoav > > From leisha at decisionresearch.org Tue Jan 18 17:31:38 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha Wharfield) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:31:38 -0800 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime In-Reply-To: <005201c4fd2f$b89ca3a0$879c4284@DOMI2> Message-ID: My mistake; you're right. I'm sorry for the confusion. Intuit is another software compan. They make TurboTax and Quicken. I mixed the two names up. Leisha Yoav Bar Anan wrote: > Thanks Leisha > > Inquist I know. I thought intuit is something else. > > Thank you for your efforts, > Yoav > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leisha Wharfield" > > To: "yoav Bar-Anan" > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: response duration, but not with EPrime > > >> Here's their website: http://millisecond.com/ >> >> yoav Bar-Anan wrote: >> >>> Dear Leisha, >>> >>> Could you please tell me where can I find details about intuit. I >>> simply couldn't find it in the traditional google way. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Yoav >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leisha" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: Re: RE: response duration, but not with EPrime >>> >>> >>>> Dear Yoav, >>>> >>>> Your English does not fail you. Intuit is the name of a programming >>>> application for psychological testing, similar to E-Prime. >>>> >>>> Leisha >>>> >>>> baranan at post.tau.ac.il wrote: >>>> >>>>> Leisha, Sudevan >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your answers. >>>>> I'm not sure I understood the part about "intuit": >>>>> Is there an environment called "intuit", or has my English failed me? >>>> >>>> >>>> Where >>>> >>>>> can I read about it? >>>>> >>>>> By the way I found a page that might have some answers for me, and >>>>> for >>>>> others too: >>>>> http://psychtoolbox.org/library.html >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Yoav >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System >>>> at the Tel-Aviv University CC. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System >> at the Tel-Aviv University CC. >> > > > From r.l.c.mitchell at reading.ac.uk Tue Jan 25 10:56:42 2005 From: r.l.c.mitchell at reading.ac.uk (Rachel Mitchell) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:56:42 -0000 Subject: E-prime and skin-conductance response experiments Message-ID: Hi everyone Does anyone use E-prime in conjunction with SCR recording equipment (either biopac or psylab) I've been asked a question about e-prime/SCR recording that I thought someone might know the answer to.... 'is it possible to have E Prime send a signal to the PC recording SCR when a new block of text is presented or when a response to a question is made' stimuli are presented visually (rather than auditorily) responses are mouse clicks Regards Rachel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Rachel L. C. Mitchell Lecturer in Cognitive Psychology, University of Reading Honorary Research Fellow, Institute of Psychiatry Research Psychologist, Berkshire Healthcare NHS Trust Correspondence Address: School of Psychology Whiteknights Road University of Reading Reading Berkshire RG6 6AL Tel: +44 (0)118 378 8523 Direct Dial: +44 (0)118 378 7530 Fax: +44 (0)118 378 6715 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Thu Jan 27 08:51:47 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:51:47 +0100 Subject: E-prime and skin-conductance response experiments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hi rachel, you will require a special isolation module (STP100C) for the biopac configuration to be able to (safely) connect the stimulus PC to the acquistion hardware. (http://biopac.com/product.cgi?type=view&item=STP100C) Since a few months, BioPac also offers the correct interface cable to connect this module to a printer port. After the hardware is setup, you should use some inline EPrime script to send the digital triggers to the LPT port. There are two options: 1) insert some inline script somewhere before the object that will generate onset and reset codes. In this example the object is called 'mystim': ' for the onset (code 255 as example): mystim.OnsetSignalEnabled = True mystim.OnsetSignalData = 255 mystim.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 ' default address of LPT1 ' to reset: mystim.OffsetSignalEnabled = True mystim.OffsetSignalData = 0 ' just reset all bits mystim.OffsetSignalPort = &H378 2) Use the WritePort command to send digial values: WritePort &H378, 255 ... ' and at a later point: WritePort &H378, 0 ' to reset all bits Option 2 is a bit tricky when you also use so called PreRelease intervals, which could change the start time of your script and lead to unexpected trigger times. Also note that the values you send to the LPT port should be stable for at least the sampling interval time used on your biopac configuration. (I.e., don't reset the bits within 4 msec if you sample at 250Hz) Just another thing: skin conductance responses need some time to 'relax' after a stimulus, so don't make you stimulus-to-stimulus time too short. hope this helps. Paul Groot Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam ITM-FPP (see also http://www.psy.vu.nl/download/menu/) >From: "Rachel Mitchell" >To: "Eprime mailing list" >Subject: E-prime and skin-conductance response experiments >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:56:42 -0000 > >Hi everyone > >Does anyone use E-prime in conjunction with SCR recording equipment (either >biopac or psylab) > >I've been asked a question about e-prime/SCR recording that I thought >someone might know the answer to.... > >'is it possible to have E Prime send a signal to the PC recording SCR when >a >new block of text is presented or when a response to a question is made' > >stimuli are presented visually (rather than auditorily) >responses are mouse clicks > >Regards >Rachel > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Dr Rachel L. C. Mitchell >Lecturer in Cognitive Psychology, University of Reading >Honorary Research Fellow, Institute of Psychiatry >Research Psychologist, Berkshire Healthcare NHS Trust > >Correspondence Address: >School of Psychology >Whiteknights Road >University of Reading >Reading >Berkshire >RG6 6AL > >Tel: +44 (0)118 378 8523 >Direct Dial: +44 (0)118 378 7530 >Fax: +44 (0)118 378 6715 >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _________________________________________________________________ Gebruik MSN Webmessenger op je werk en op school http://webmessenger.msn.com/ From wifst3 at pitt.edu Sat Jan 29 22:28:37 2005 From: wifst3 at pitt.edu (Wiltrud Fassbinder) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:28:37 -0500 Subject: pseudorandomization Message-ID: Hi, my experiment requires pseudorandomization of stimuli based on several criteria, which I am doing via a perl script (courtesy of my private tech support). So far I have converted the tab seperated output into a text files, opened them with Excel, and pasted them individually for each block for each participant. Is there any way to automatize this process? Thanks, Wiltrud Wiltrud Fassbinder Communication Science & Disorders University of Pittsburgh From wifst3 at pitt.edu Sat Jan 29 22:31:46 2005 From: wifst3 at pitt.edu (Wiltrud Fassbinder) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:31:46 -0500 Subject: Response box USB serial cable Message-ID: I have a computer available that does not have a serial port, and I want to use the E-prime response box. So I thought I could use a USB-serial cable to connect it. Is there anything I should be watching out for, or will any cable work? Thanks again, Wiltrud Wiltrud Fassbinder Communication Science and Disorder University of Pittsburgh From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Sun Jan 30 18:54:16 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:54:16 +0100 Subject: Response box USB serial cable In-Reply-To: <41FC0ED2.2050007@pitt.edu> Message-ID: Dear Wiltrud, Most USB-to-RS232 interface cables will work right out of the box, but you should be aware of the following: Although USB hardware supports much higher data throughput rates than RS232 (i.e. can transfer more bytes per second), the USB-protocol consists of a rather complex driver hierarchy, which could introduce a reasonably amount of delay’s during data transmission. So, USB will influence the accuracy of response times measured by E-Prime. (I haven’t measured those timings yet, but perhaps PST is willing to give you some details.) When accurate response times are not required, then you can safely use a USB-serial cable to connect the serial box. However, while installing the driver for the virtual COM-port, windows will assign the first available (unused) COM-port to your cable. You should check the assigned port number (Control panel> System-> Hardware->COM & LPT ports) and make sure it corresponds to the settings in your EPrime script. (I think EPrime only supports COM1 to COM4). Also notice that windows will assign a different COM port when you switch to another USB port. You might have to manually configure all the available ports to have identical port numbers. Paul Groot Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam The Netherlands >From: Wiltrud Fassbinder >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: Response box USB serial cable >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:31:46 -0500 > >I have a computer available that does not have a serial port, and I want to >use the E-prime response box. So I thought I could use a USB-serial cable >to connect it. Is there anything I should be watching out for, or will any >cable work? > >Thanks again, >Wiltrud > >Wiltrud Fassbinder >Communication Science and Disorder >University of Pittsburgh > > > _________________________________________________________________ Altijd in contact met de kleinkinderen: MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Sun Jan 30 19:19:22 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:19:22 +0100 Subject: pseudorandomization In-Reply-To: <41FC0E15.8010809@pitt.edu> Message-ID: It is possible to let eprime load the contents for the list objects from a tab delimited text file directly. Just set the ‘LoadMethod’ to ‘File’ and type the filename in the Filename field. Note that EPrime is a bit sensitive about the layout of the text files. The first line should contain the names of the attributes, separated by tab-characters. Also include the 3 obligatory ‘weight’, ‘nested’ and ‘procedure’ columns, and be sure not to add extra tab’s at the end of the lines. Paul Groot Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam The Netherlands >From: Wiltrud Fassbinder >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: pseudorandomization >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:28:37 -0500 > >Hi, >my experiment requires pseudorandomization of stimuli based on several >criteria, which I am doing via a perl script (courtesy of my private tech >support). So far I have converted the tab seperated output into a text >files, opened them with Excel, and pasted them individually for each block >for each participant. Is there any way to automatize this process? > >Thanks, >Wiltrud > >Wiltrud Fassbinder >Communication Science & Disorders >University of Pittsburgh > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger: altijd en overal beschikbaar http://webmessenger.msn.com/ From boris.kleber at uni-tuebingen.de Mon Jan 31 09:29:43 2005 From: boris.kleber at uni-tuebingen.de (Boris Kleber) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:29:43 +0100 Subject: sending EEG triggers in an combined fMRI/EEG experiment Message-ID: Dear list members I'd like to use e-prime for an combined fMRI/EEG experiment. We'll use fMRI in a sparse-sampling design so that EEG is not affected by the scanning process. The presentation should be triggered by the MR pulse, which is no problem. However, I couldn't find detailed description on how to send a trigger to the EEG computer simultaneously with presentation onset. I greatly appreciate any suggestion. Boris From benn0224 at umn.edu Mon Jan 31 15:28:14 2005 From: benn0224 at umn.edu (Stephen D. Benning) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:28:14 -0600 Subject: sending EEG triggers in an combined fMRI/EEG experiment In-Reply-To: <004001c50777$68290ab0$8e660286@Bokle> Message-ID: On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 10:29 +0100, Boris Kleber wrote: > Dear list members > > I'd like to use e-prime for an combined fMRI/EEG experiment. We'll use fMRI > in a sparse-sampling design so that EEG is not affected by the scanning > process. The presentation should be triggered by the MR pulse, which is no > problem. However, I couldn't find detailed description on how to send a > trigger to the EEG computer simultaneously with presentation onset. You can use the OnsetSignal (and OffsetSignal) properties of each object to send these triggers (and reset the trigger port to a "hold" value). I'll assume that you have some object called OBJECT, a trigger port with the address TRIGGER_PORT, and the trigger value you want to send as TRIGGER_VALUE. At the very beginning of your experiment, in a block of Inline code, have the following lines: OBJECT.OnsetSignalEnabled = True OBJECT.OnsetSignalPort = TRIGGER_PORT OBJECT.OnsetSignalData = TRIGGER_VALUE If you want to reset the trigger port to a hold value (with the value HOLD_VALUE) after the object has been presented, add these lines to the same block of Inline code: OBJECT.OffsetSignalEnabled = True OBJECT.OffsetSignalPort = TRIGGER_PORT OBJECT.OffsetSignalData = HOLD_VALUE You'll want to repeat these lines of codes for all the objects you want to have triggered, changing OBJECT to be the name of the appropriate object in each case. Now, if you'd like to assign a different value to TRIGGER_VALUE each time OBJECT is presented (for example, if OBJECT is within a listbox, and TRIGGER_ATTRIB is the column in the list box that gives the trigger values that should be used for each presentation of OBJECT), add the following in an Inline code block immediately before OBJECT: OBJECT.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("TRIGGER_ATTRIB") > I greatly appreciate any suggestion. > > Boris > > -- Stephen D. Benning Department of Psychology University of Minnesota Office: N631 Elliott Hall 75 East River Road Minneapolis, MN 55455 E-mail: benn0224 at umn.edu From C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl Tue Jan 4 14:49:53 2005 From: C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl (C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:49:53 +0100 Subject: Defining colors Message-ID: Hi all, Apperently there are 16 predifined colors. This is very handy when one wants to make a list with a StimWord and StimColor attribute. But I want to define my own color, say BlueGreen = "0,38,46", and I want to use this word BlueGreen in my list instead of the string "0,38,46". Defining a Const does not do the trick. Any suggestions? C. Bonnemayer Maastricht University Dept. of Medical, Clinical and Experimental Psychology P.O. Box 616 6200 MD Maastricht The Netherlands p: +31 (0)43 3882486 f: +31 (0)43 3884155 From j.intriligator at bangor.ac.uk Wed Jan 5 13:20:42 2005 From: j.intriligator at bangor.ac.uk (James Intriligator) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 13:20:42 +0000 Subject: Defining colors In-Reply-To: <329A68716B57D54E8D39FD3F8A4A84DF1D3EE7@um-mail0136.unimaas.nl> Message-ID: Hi, I think you just need to use a variant of the CColor command. But, as far as using this approach in a bracket-situation (e.g. "[MyColor]"), this probably will not work... You might need some inline code instead. One thing you could try (which I have not tried yet, but might work) is to define a const that includes the CColor command in it... Strange thought, but it might work. Anyway, below are some snippets of ways CColor is used. Good Luck, james ------------------------------------------------ James Intriligator, PhD Senior Lecturer School of Psychology - Experimental Consumer Psychology University of Wales - Bangor Brigantia Building - Room 328 Bangor, Gwynedd LL57 2AS Wales, UK Tel: +44 (0)1248 383630 Fax: +44 (0)1248 382599 email: j.intriligator at bangor.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------ ========================= Set cnvs = Display.Canvas cnvs.FillColor=CColor("black")? Cnvs.PenColor = CColor("255,0,0") ========================= SlideText.ForeColor = Ccolor(c.GetAttrib("TheFrameColor")) ========================= Public Sub SetPenColorToGray(TheCanvas As Canvas, TheLevelGray as String) Dim ColorThing as String ColorThing = TheLevelGray & "," & TheLevelGray & "," TheLevelGray TheCanvas.PenColor = CColor(ColorThing) End Sub ===== On 4/1/05 2:49 pm, "C.Bonnemayer at DMKEP.unimaas.nl" wrote: > Hi all, > > Apperently there are 16 predifined colors. This is very handy when one wants > to make a list with a StimWord and StimColor attribute. But I want to define > my own color, say BlueGreen = "0,38,46", and I want to use this word > BlueGreen in my list instead of the string "0,38,46". Defining a Const does > not do the trick. > > Any suggestions? > > C. Bonnemayer > Maastricht University > Dept. of Medical, Clinical and Experimental Psychology > P.O. Box 616 > 6200 MD Maastricht > The Netherlands > p: +31 (0)43 3882486 > f: +31 (0)43 3884155 > > From m.s.cox at bham.ac.uk Wed Jan 5 14:43:05 2005 From: m.s.cox at bham.ac.uk (Mark Cox) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 14:43:05 -0000 Subject: Fading Images Message-ID: Does anyone know how to fade out images to a white background in E-Prime. I have created a visual search experiment that presents between 4 to 8 images on the screen at one time but I now need to adjust the experiment so that the images are faded out rather than being blanked out (this is to prevent a patient with Epilepsy having a fit whilst undertaking this experiment. Roughly the experiment runs as follows-: * Between 4-8 images are displayed on the screen for 250ms Screen is blank for 250ms Between 4-8 images are displayed on the screen for 250ms (except one image which is removed) Screen is blank for 250ms * This loop is repeated until the subject responds. The display is set to 800x600 16bit colour depth. Note 256 bit colour depth is no good because the images are 24bit. Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch Wed Jan 5 15:24:55 2005 From: martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Buschk=FChl?=) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:24:55 +0100 Subject: Combining several Experiments Message-ID: Hi, all. For a group testing session I would like to combine several experiments into one file. Problem is that the single experiments are quite complex and quite large (although I will certainly not get a "script too large"-error). I know that it is possible to copy an object in the browser, open another experiment and paste the object into that experiment. If I would do that this way I had to copy around 80-100 different objects (and bringing them together in the right order in the structure window). Is it maybe possible to open a second instance of e-run and run a second script out of an already running script or something like that? Thanks in advance for any help, Martin. -- Martin Buschk?hl University of Berne Institute of Psychology Muesmattstrasse 45 3012 Bern Switzerland fon +41 (0) 31 631 47 34 fax +41 (0) 31 621 82 12 From twthompson at gmail.com Thu Jan 6 01:11:02 2005 From: twthompson at gmail.com (Todd Thompson) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:11:02 -0800 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Message-ID: Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From m.paul at bangor.ac.uk Thu Jan 6 14:52:48 2005 From: m.paul at bangor.ac.uk (Matthew Paul) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 14:52:48 -0000 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? In-Reply-To: <76b6fe2805010517116b9e895d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, put the two experiments in the same folder / directory, select them both and open them both at the same time by hitting enter on the keyboard (if you double click with the mouse it will only open one). Regards, matt --------------------------------------- Matthew Paul Centre for Cognitive Neuroscience School of Psychology University of Wales, Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2AS United Kingdom www.psychology.bangor.ac.uk --------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Todd Thompson Sent: 06 January 2005 01:11 To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From KKim at iona.edu Thu Jan 6 16:07:32 2005 From: KKim at iona.edu (Kim, Kisok) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:07:32 -0500 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Message-ID: That is very nice trick. Thank you. Is there a website that stores all these e-prime emails? -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org on behalf of Matthew Paul Sent: Thu 1/6/2005 9:52 AM To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu; eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: Subject: RE: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, put the two experiments in the same folder / directory, select them both and open them both at the same time by hitting enter on the keyboard (if you double click with the mouse it will only open one). Regards, matt --------------------------------------- Matthew Paul Centre for Cognitive Neuroscience School of Psychology University of Wales, Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2AS United Kingdom www.psychology.bangor.ac.uk --------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Todd Thompson Sent: 06 January 2005 01:11 To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Thu Jan 6 17:26:24 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 18:26:24 +0100 Subject: Combining several Experiments In-Reply-To: <41DC06C7.40302@psy.unibe.ch> Message-ID: Hi Martin, Would it help if you could put your experiments into one batch file and run them sequentially? You could try a small command line utility I've made a while ago, which puts some code in your script to specify subject and session numbers without user intervention. This also prevents mixing all the output data into one large file. This ustility can be downloaded at: http://www.psy.vu.nl/download/menu/xml/eprime_tool_ekick.xml best , paul Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam >From: Martin Buschk?hl >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: Combining several Experiments >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:24:55 +0100 > >Hi, all. For a group testing session I would like to combine several >experiments into one file. Problem is that the single experiments are quite >complex and quite large (although I will certainly not get a "script too >large"-error). I know that it is possible to copy an object in the browser, >open another experiment and paste the object into that experiment. If I >would do that this way I had to copy around 80-100 different objects (and >bringing them together in the right order in the structure window). Is it >maybe possible to open a second instance of e-run and run a second script >out of an already running script or something like that? > >Thanks in advance for any help, > >Martin. > >-- >Martin Buschk?hl >University of Berne >Institute of Psychology >Muesmattstrasse 45 >3012 Bern >Switzerland > >fon +41 (0) 31 631 47 34 >fax +41 (0) 31 621 82 12 > > > _________________________________________________________________ Spreek vrienden en familie met MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From twthompson at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 00:17:57 2005 From: twthompson at gmail.com (Todd Thompson) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:17:57 -0800 Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files Message-ID: Sorry to deluge the mailing list, but I have one more hopefully simple ePrime question: I want to run the same experiment six times, changing the stimuli with each run. I'd like to populate my lists from one of the six input files dynamically, depending on the run number. Is this possible? Here are the things I tried that didn't work: 1) I set the list load method to File, then put a variable "[var]" in the list filename field -- this gave an error message saying "reference to attribute not permitted" 2) I left the list load method as embedded in the GUI, then created an inline block of code that looked like this: PassiveTrials.loadmethod = ebLoadMethodFile PassiveTrials.filename = "PassiveBlock1.txt" PassiveTrials.load This ran my embedded list and ignored my attempts to load a new list. I know I can solve this problem other ways (via nested lists, for example), but I like being able to generate/maintain my stimuli externally, if I'm working on a computer without ePrime installed. Sorry if this is an overly simple question. I'm finding the ePrime help files and documentation somewhat inadequate... Thanks for any help, Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From asa8 at leicester.ac.uk Fri Jan 7 08:53:19 2005 From: asa8 at leicester.ac.uk (Andrews, A.S.) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 08:53:19 -0000 Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Message-ID: Hi Matt That's Brilliant! I don't know why I never thought of it. I've only ever managed to copy code via notepad before. Thanks a million - I know that is going to be handy. Best Regards Tony Andrews Senior Computer Officer School of Psychology University of Leicester ________________________________ From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org on behalf of Matthew Paul Sent: Thu 06/01/2005 14:52 To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu; eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: RE: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, put the two experiments in the same folder / directory, select them both and open them both at the same time by hitting enter on the keyboard (if you double click with the mouse it will only open one). Regards, matt --------------------------------------- Matthew Paul Centre for Cognitive Neuroscience School of Psychology University of Wales, Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2AS United Kingdom www.psychology.bangor.ac.uk --------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Todd Thompson Sent: 06 January 2005 01:11 To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Subject: Multiple ePrime windows? Hi, all. Is there a way to have multiple ePrime windows open concurrently? I'd like to be able to refer to an existing experiment while I'm creating a new one, but can't seem to open more than one instance of eStudio at a time. Any workarounds? Thanks! Todd ---- Todd Thompson Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute University of California, Berkeley From martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch Fri Jan 7 09:37:39 2005 From: martin.buschkuehl at psy.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Buschk=FChl?=) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:37:39 +0100 Subject: Combining several Experiments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul: Thank you very much for your answer. With EKick and a couple of lines in a batch file I am able to combine the experiments. This solution costs me a fraction of time of everything I was thinking of. Thanks again! best regards, Martin. Paul Gr wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Would it help if you could put your experiments into one batch file > and run them sequentially? You could try a small command line utility > I've made a while ago, which puts some code in your script to specify > subject and session numbers without user intervention. This also > prevents mixing all the output data into one large file. > > This ustility can be downloaded at: > http://www.psy.vu.nl/download/menu/xml/eprime_tool_ekick.xml > > > best , > paul > > Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam > > >> From: Martin Buschk?hl >> To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >> Subject: Combining several Experiments >> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:24:55 +0100 >> >> Hi, all. For a group testing session I would like to combine several >> experiments into one file. Problem is that the single experiments are >> quite complex and quite large (although I will certainly not get a >> "script too large"-error). I know that it is possible to copy an >> object in the browser, open another experiment and paste the object >> into that experiment. If I would do that this way I had to copy >> around 80-100 different objects (and bringing them together in the >> right order in the structure window). Is it maybe possible to open a >> second instance of e-run and run a second script out of an already >> running script or something like that? >> >> Thanks in advance for any help, >> >> Martin. >> >> -- >> Martin Buschk?hl >> University of Berne >> Institute of Psychology >> Muesmattstrasse 45 >> 3012 Bern >> Switzerland >> >> fon +41 (0) 31 631 47 34 >> fax +41 (0) 31 621 82 12 >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Spreek vrienden en familie met MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > > From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Fri Jan 7 16:47:40 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 17:47:40 +0100 Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files In-Reply-To: <76b6fe280501061617294ac669@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Todd, here is an example code snippet, which fills a list object from an external file. You should set the filename variable (strFilename) before this code and insert it as an inline object at the beginning of your experiment. ' load stimulus definitions, or use embedded defaults If Len(strStimuliDefinitionFile)>0 then Debug.Print "Loading stimuli definitions file: " & strStimuliDefinitionFile lstStimuli.LoadMethod = ebLoadMethodFile lstStimuli.Filename = strStimuliDefinitionFile lstStimuli.Load lstStimuli.Reset End If Note that EPrime is very sensitive about the format and contents of the external file. The first line should contain the attribute names. Including Weight, Nested and Procedure. All names and values should be separated by a tab character, not spaces. Also, prevent extra tabs and spaces at the end of the lines, and empty lines at the end of the file. cheers, Paul Groot. Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam >From: Todd Thompson >Reply-To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu >To: "eprime at mail.talkbank.org" >Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:17:57 -0800 > >Sorry to deluge the mailing list, but I have one more hopefully simple >ePrime question: > >I want to run the same experiment six times, changing the stimuli with >each run. I'd like to populate my lists from one of the six input >files dynamically, depending on the run number. > >Is this possible? Here are the things I tried that didn't work: >1) I set the list load method to File, then put a variable "[var]" in >the list filename field -- this gave an error message saying >"reference to attribute not permitted" >2) I left the list load method as embedded in the GUI, then created an >inline block of code that looked like this: >PassiveTrials.loadmethod = ebLoadMethodFile >PassiveTrials.filename = "PassiveBlock1.txt" >PassiveTrials.load >This ran my embedded list and ignored my attempts to load a new list. > >I know I can solve this problem other ways (via nested lists, for >example), but I like being able to generate/maintain my stimuli >externally, if I'm working on a computer without ePrime installed. > >Sorry if this is an overly simple question. I'm finding the ePrime >help files and documentation somewhat inadequate... > >Thanks for any help, >Todd > >---- >Todd Thompson >Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute >University of California, Berkeley > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger: altijd en overal beschikbaar http://webmessenger.msn.com/ From twthompson at gmail.com Fri Jan 7 22:17:19 2005 From: twthompson at gmail.com (Todd Thompson) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:17:19 -0800 Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the help! I've gotten my script to work, for now. Ultimately, I had two problems: 1) I was missing the List.Reset call. 2) My reset/sampling method on the list was set to "all". I assumed the necessary number of samples would be recalcuated after the list was reset. This does not seem to happen. To work around this, I had to either have the correct number of "dummy rows" in the list before the file was processed, or have an inline instruction to update the List.ResetCondition after the file is loaded. The latter method is probably more robust. In any case, thanks again, and I hope this saves someone else some time! Todd On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:47:40 +0100, Paul Gr wrote: > Hi Todd, > > here is an example code snippet, which fills a list object from an external > file. You should set the filename variable (strFilename) before this code > and insert it as an inline object at the beginning of your experiment. > > ' load stimulus definitions, or use embedded defaults > If Len(strStimuliDefinitionFile)>0 then > Debug.Print "Loading stimuli definitions file: " & strStimuliDefinitionFile > lstStimuli.LoadMethod = ebLoadMethodFile > lstStimuli.Filename = strStimuliDefinitionFile > lstStimuli.Load > lstStimuli.Reset > End If > > Note that EPrime is very sensitive about the format and contents of the > external file. The first line should contain the attribute names. Including > Weight, Nested and Procedure. All names and values should be separated by a > tab character, not spaces. Also, prevent extra tabs and spaces at the end of > the lines, and empty lines at the end of the file. > > cheers, > Paul Groot. Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam > > >From: Todd Thompson > >Reply-To: toddt at alumni.rice.edu > >To: "eprime at mail.talkbank.org" > >Subject: Yet Another Question: populating lists from files > >Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 16:17:57 -0800 > > > >Sorry to deluge the mailing list, but I have one more hopefully simple > >ePrime question: > > > >I want to run the same experiment six times, changing the stimuli with > >each run. I'd like to populate my lists from one of the six input > >files dynamically, depending on the run number. > > > >Is this possible? Here are the things I tried that didn't work: > >1) I set the list load method to File, then put a variable "[var]" in > >the list filename field -- this gave an error message saying > >"reference to attribute not permitted" > >2) I left the list load method as embedded in the GUI, then created an > >inline block of code that looked like this: > >PassiveTrials.loadmethod = ebLoadMethodFile > >PassiveTrials.filename = "PassiveBlock1.txt" > >PassiveTrials.load > >This ran my embedded list and ignored my attempts to load a new list. > > > >I know I can solve this problem other ways (via nested lists, for > >example), but I like being able to generate/maintain my stimuli > >externally, if I'm working on a computer without ePrime installed. > > > >Sorry if this is an overly simple question. I'm finding the ePrime > >help files and documentation somewhat inadequate... > > > >Thanks for any help, > >Todd > > > >---- > >Todd Thompson > >Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute > >University of California, Berkeley > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Webmessenger: altijd en overal beschikbaar http://webmessenger.msn.com/ > > From baranan at post.tau.ac.il Sun Jan 16 13:39:05 2005 From: baranan at post.tau.ac.il (yoav Bar-Anan) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Hi, I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because a simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know they invested much effort in accuracy. I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer accurate timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be ran on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for E-Prime? Thank you, Yoav -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Sun Jan 16 22:47:59 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:47:59 +0100 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime In-Reply-To: <003201c4fbd0$bfb695c0$b2681bac@yoav> Message-ID: Hi, I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this mailing list, but I think you?re right when you say that deploying or distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies such as PST require people buying their products to be able to continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don?t forget DirectX , which is a ?must have? for this type of application.) As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, which don?t have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where colleagues are developing their own ?time critical? software libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really require in-depth expertise and lots of time Let?s hope PST (and other?s) come up with a customer-friendly solution for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source project to arise within a year or so. Best, Paul P.S.: about matlab and alternatives beside accurate response measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not sure if matlab will pass that test. >From: yoav Bar-Anan >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > >Hi, > > > >I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because a >simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. >However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and >accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know they >invested much effort in accuracy. > > > >I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer accurate >timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be ran >on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. > > > >On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for >E-Prime? > > > >Thank you, > >Yoav _________________________________________________________________ Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From esmith4 at indiana.edu Mon Jan 17 00:00:43 2005 From: esmith4 at indiana.edu (Eliot R. Smith) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:00:43 -0500 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Jan 16, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Paul Gr wrote: > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical > issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of > EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers > are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a > possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to > deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don?t forget DirectX?, which > is a ?must have? for this type of application.) > ... > Let?s hope PST (and other?s) come up with a customer-friendly solution > for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source > project to arise within a year or so. One excellent solution to this issue would be to create a bootable CD, perhaps based on Knoppix (http://www.knoppix.net/) . That could be configured with the right drivers, and could run on any PC without having to mess with installing a new OS or new drivers onto the hard disk. The hypothetical data-collection program could run under Linux (booted from that CD) and be configured to save data onto the workstation's hard disk, or to another computer over the network, etc. --Eliot Smith Dept. of Psychology Indiana University, Bloomington From macw at mac.com Mon Jan 17 01:12:37 2005 From: macw at mac.com (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:12:37 -0500 Subject: posting Message-ID: Paul et al., Don't worry, as list maintainer, I have no intention of applying any content censorship here. Your point about free run-time licenses or most accessible run-time usage is an interesting one. PST does have site-based run-time licenses for separate sites priced at $100, but I am guessing you think that is too high. Or are you concerned that it is clunky in some other way? When ClassMate becomes available (pretty soon, I believe) it will have similar functionality at a reduced price. Perhaps that will address your needs in part. You seem to be pushing for "royalty free runtime licensing" but you think that the ability to compile executables would be even nicer. I suppose there are some technical issues in regard to the latter that make it tough. My own point of view on this, as designer and financial supporter of first PsyScope and later E-Prime, is that software development is a significant expense, particularly in a small niche market such as Experimental Psychology. Having a sophisticated system like E-Prime is a positive for the field. Having even more powerful systems (check out the list of features for E-Prime 2.0) would be even nicer. At the same time, we always want to make sure that marketing restrictions do not impede the advance of research and creativity. Regarding ideas such as using MatLab as a replacement for E-Prime, and the previous message about just programming stuff in Basic, I guess this always depends on the programming skills of the individual, the relative simplicity of the experiment, the amount of time one wants to invest, and the level of error and other inaccuracies you are willing to tolerate. In any case, I think it is fine to post discussions of alternatives to this list. If you browse through journals such as BRMIC, you will occasionally find discussion of new programming systems and the like there too. --Brian MacWhinney, CMU On Jan 16, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Paul Gr wrote: > Hi, > > I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this > mailing list, but I think you?re right when you say that deploying or > distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or > even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies > such as PST require people buying their products to be able to > continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty > free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not > restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even > better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. > > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical > issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of > EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers > are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a > possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to > deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don?t forget DirectX?, which > is a ?must have? for this type of application.) > > As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, > which don?t have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real > standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable > programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI > and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where > colleagues are developing their own ?time critical? software > libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really > require in-depth expertise and lots of time? > > Let?s hope PST (and other?s) come up with a customer-friendly solution > for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source > project to arise within a year or so. > > Best, > Paul > > P.S.: about matlab and alternatives? beside accurate response > measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not > sure if matlab will pass that test. > > >> From: yoav Bar-Anan >> To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >> Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime >> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, >> because a simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is >> easier to deploy. However, when an experiment requires >> response-duration recording and accurate timing of events, I always >> resort to E-Prime, because I know they invested much effort in >> accuracy. >> >> >> >> I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer >> accurate timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) >> that can be ran on most computers without installing anything but the >> experiment file. >> >> >> >> On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative >> for E-Prime? >> >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> Yoav > > _________________________________________________________________ > Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger > http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > From leisha at decisionresearch.org Mon Jan 17 04:09:57 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha) Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:09:57 -0500 Subject: posting Message-ID: I work for a small, nonprofit institute. It is difficult for us to afford high-level software like E-Prime, but when it's necessary, we can sometimes write it into a grant proposal. Unfortunately, many of our proposals are only partially funded. It's a difficult balancing act, and we can only hope for better scientific funding in future and meanwhile continue to work hard to acquire what we need to continue our important research. I think that the programmers at E-Prime are probably in much the same position as I am as a programmer this small institute. Since we started using E-Prime we have received several requests for the scripts we've written. It's no problem for our friends & colleagues to access our scripts for the purpose of criticism & review (although it could be easier). When one colleague wished to go further, actually using our script to obtain more data for our project, he bought a site license for $100. This was good for our institute, allowing us to obtain more data. We also use site licenses to run experiments in more than one local lab simultaneously. I've found many E-Prime scripts available on-line from various institutes, and they've been helpful to me in developing experiments for our investigators. Over all, the arrangement we have now is working. Let's hope that more funding comes pouring into scientific research from all directions, allowing us all to breathe a little freer, loosen our belts, and share our projects more easily. Leisha Wharfield Decision Research Eugene, Oregon, USA macw at mac.com wrote: > Paul et al., > Don't worry, as list maintainer, I have no intention of applying=20 > any content censorship here. Your point about free run-time licenses=20 > or most accessible run-time usage is an interesting one. PST does have=20= > > site-based run-time licenses for separate sites priced at $100, but I=20 > am guessing you think that is too high. Or are you concerned that it=20 > is clunky in some other way? When ClassMate becomes available (pretty=20= > > soon, I believe) it will have similar functionality at a reduced price.=20= > > Perhaps that will address your needs in part. You seem to be pushing=20= > > for "royalty free runtime licensing" but you think that the ability to=20= > > compile executables would be even nicer. I suppose there are some > technical issues in regard to the latter that make it tough. > My own point of view on this, as designer and financial supporter of=20= > > first PsyScope and later E-Prime, is that software development is a=20 > significant expense, particularly in a small niche market such as=20 > Experimental Psychology. Having a sophisticated system like E-Prime is=20= > > a positive for the field. Having even more powerful systems (check out=20= > > the list of features for E-Prime 2.0) would be even nicer. At the same=20= > > time, we always want to make sure that marketing restrictions do not=20 > impede the advance of research and creativity. > Regarding ideas such as using MatLab as a replacement for E-Prime,=20= > > and the previous message about just programming stuff in Basic, I guess=20= > > this always depends on the programming skills of the individual, the=20 > relative simplicity of the experiment, the amount of time one wants to=20= > > invest, and the level of error and other inaccuracies you are willing=20 > to tolerate. > In any case, I think it is fine to post discussions of alternatives=20= > > to this list. If you browse through journals such as BRMIC, you will=20 > occasionally find discussion of new programming systems and the like=20 > there too. > > --Brian MacWhinney, CMU > > On Jan 16, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Paul Gr wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this=20 > > mailing list, but I think you=92re right when you say that deploying = > or=20 > > distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or=20 > > even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies=20 > > such as PST require people buying their products to be able to=20 > > continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty=20 > > free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not=20 > > restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even=20 > > better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. > > > > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical=20= > > > issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of=20 > > EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers=20= > > > are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a=20= > > > possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to=20= > > > deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don=92t forget DirectX=85, = > which=20 > > is a =91must have=92 for this type of application.) > > > > As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives,=20 > > which don=92t have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real=20= > > > standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable=20 > > programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI=20 > > and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where=20= > > > colleagues are developing their own =91time critical=92 software=20 > > libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really=20= > > > require in-depth expertise and lots of time=85 > > > > Let=92s hope PST (and other=92s) come up with a customer-friendly = > solution=20 > > for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source=20 > > project to arise within a year or so. > > > > Best, > > Paul > > > > P.S.: about matlab and alternatives=85 beside accurate response=20 > > measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not=20 > > sure if matlab will pass that test. > > > > > >> From: yoav Bar-Anan > >> To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > >> Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime > >> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >> > >> I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments,=20 > >> because a simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is=20 > >> easier to deploy. However, when an experiment requires=20 > >> response-duration recording and accurate timing of events, I always=20= > > >> resort to E-Prime, because I know they invested much effort in=20 > >> accuracy. > >> > >> > >> > >> I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer=20 > >> accurate timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing)=20 > >> that can be ran on most computers without installing anything but the=20= > > >> experiment file. > >> > >> > >> > >> On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative=20 > >> for E-Prime? > >> > >> > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> Yoav > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger=20 > > http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > > > > > > From psudevan at uwsp.edu Mon Jan 17 17:40:45 2005 From: psudevan at uwsp.edu (Sudevan, Padmanabhan) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:40:45 -0600 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Hello all, Some general responses to this discussion thread: First, regarding Matlab, I believe Geoff Loftus' lab at the University of Washington uses a version of Matlab, along with some of their modules, for experimentation. Although the Toolkits were written separately from Matlab, my recollection is that they are available to any researcher. Second, I too understand that PST needs to be able to get revenues in order to continue doing what they are doing, and I don't feel that the costs involved, for a researcher at a small university (like myself) are exorbitant. On the other hand, I think ClassMate with its currently proposed semester fees will pose some difficulty for a campus like mine because students want to keep textbook/software costs down and we have a text rental system. Perhaps one could think of some arrangement where the software could be made available to the university at an annual cost for the use of a certain number of students -- and the university could then charge the students a reduced fee. Walter Schneider did say at Psychonomics in Minneapolis that they were still exploring alternate ways of charging users for ClassMate. Third, regarding Yoav's question on alternate systems, there is Intuit Systems Millisecond which enables folks to write their own code. The problem, as Brian points out, is that not everyone would want to write their own code. Also E-Prime is a general system that is meant to run on a variety of machines, and this generality is bought at some sacrifice, in terms of the range of things that it can do -- viz., standalone executable scripts, with attendant issues of driver compatibility etc. Sudevan P Sudevan Professor of Psychology Chair, Faculty Senate, UWSP -----Original Message----- From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On Behalf Of Paul Gr Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 4:48 PM To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org Cc: baranan at post.tau.ac.il Subject: RE: response duration, but not with EPrime Hi, I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this mailing list, but I think you're right when you say that deploying or distributing runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or even impossible. I also realize that software developing companies such as PST require people buying their products to be able to continue their business. I really hope that PST will offer royalty free runtime licences in the near future, so EPrime users are not restricted anymore to run their scripts at their own sites. Or even better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of scripts. However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical issues that require attention. For instance, the current version of EPrime uses special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers are required for optimal response processing. So, even if there was a possibility to create standalone executables, you would still have to deploy a proper runtime environment. (And don't forget DirectX..., which is a 'must have' for this type of application.) As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, which don't have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real standalone executables, you would have to get into a suitable programming environment and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI and DirectX APIs. I know of some projects at other universities, where colleagues are developing their own 'time critical' software libraries. However, compared to using EPrime and the like, you really require in-depth expertise and lots of time... Let's hope PST (and other's) come up with a customer-friendly solution for this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source project to arise within a year or so. Best, Paul P.S.: about matlab and alternatives... beside accurate response measurement, you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not sure if matlab will pass that test. >From: yoav Bar-Anan >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > >Hi, > > > >I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because >a >simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. >However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and >accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know they >invested much effort in accuracy. > > > >I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer >accurate >timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be ran >on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. > > > >On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for >E-Prime? > > > >Thank you, > >Yoav _________________________________________________________________ Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From leisha at decisionresearch.org Mon Jan 17 17:49:59 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:49:59 -0500 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Despite the programming, I found Intuit very simple to use from the very beginning. Many scripts are available for it. But E-Prime, by comparison, is just so much easier & more powerful. I was able to spend more time on the graphics and the precise look of the computer task that our investigators needed, rather than wading through code looking for typos. Leisha Wharfield Decision Research Eugene, Oregon, USA psudevan at uwsp.edu wrote: > Hello all, > > Some general responses to this discussion thread: > > First, regarding Matlab, I believe Geoff Loftus' lab at the University > of Washington uses a version of Matlab, along with some of their > modules, for experimentation. Although the Toolkits were written > separately from Matlab, my recollection is that they are available to > any researcher. > > Second, I too understand that PST needs to be able to get revenues in > order to continue doing what they are doing, and I don't feel that the > costs involved, for a researcher at a small university (like myself) are > exorbitant. On the other hand, I think ClassMate with its currently > proposed semester fees will pose some difficulty for a campus like mine > because students want to keep textbook/software costs down and we have a > text rental system. Perhaps one could think of some arrangement where > the software could be made available to the university at an annual cost > for the use of a certain number of students -- and the university could > then charge the students a reduced fee. Walter Schneider did say at > Psychonomics in Minneapolis that they were still exploring alternate > ways of charging users for ClassMate. > > Third, regarding Yoav's question on alternate systems, there is Intuit > Systems Millisecond which enables folks to write their own code. The > problem, as Brian points out, is that not everyone would want to write > their own code. Also E-Prime is a general system that is meant to run on > a variety of machines, and this generality is bought at some sacrifice, > in terms of the range of things that it can do -- viz., standalone > executable scripts, with attendant issues of driver compatibility etc. > > > Sudevan > > > > P Sudevan > Professor of Psychology > Chair, Faculty Senate, UWSP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: eprime at mail.talkbank.org [mailto:eprime at mail.talkbank.org] On > Behalf Of Paul Gr > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 4:48 PM > To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > Cc: baranan at post.tau.ac.il > Subject: RE: response duration, but not with EPrime > > > Hi, > > I'm not sure if it appropriate to discuss non-eprime issues in this > mailing=20 > list, but I think you're right when you say that deploying or > distributing=20 > runtime versions of EPrime scripts may be difficult or even impossible. > I=20 > also realize that software developing companies such as PST require > people=20 > buying their products to be able to continue their business. I really > hope=20 > that PST will offer royalty free runtime licences in the near future, so > > EPrime users are not restricted anymore to run their scripts at their > own=20 > sites. Or even better: being able to create standalone exe-versions of=20 > scripts. > > However, beside the licensing strategy, there are also some technical > issues=20 > that require attention. For instance, the current version of EPrime uses > > special drivers to handle response devices. These drivers are required > for=20 > optimal response processing. So, even if there was a possibility to > create=20 > standalone executables, you would still have to deploy a proper runtime=20 > environment. (And don't forget DirectX..., which is a 'must have' for > this=20 > type of application.) > > As far as I know, there are no commercially available alternatives, > which=20 > don't have the same deployment issues as EPrime. So, for real standalone > > executables, you would have to get into a suitable programming > environment=20 > and enter the low-level world of WIN32, GDI and DirectX APIs. I know of > some=20 > projects at other universities, where colleagues are developing their > own=20 > 'time critical' software libraries. However, compared to using EPrime > and=20 > the like, you really require in-depth expertise and lots of time... > > Let's hope PST (and other's) come up with a customer-friendly solution > for=20 > this problem. If not, then I expect some kind of open source project to=20 > arise within a year or so. > > Best, > Paul > > P.S.: about matlab and alternatives... beside accurate response > measurement,=20 > you would also require accurate stimulus delivery. Not sure if matlab > will=20 > pass that test. > > > >From: yoav Bar-Anan > >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org > >Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime > >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:39:05 +0200 > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > >I often prefer not to use E-Prime for programming experiments, because=20 > >a > >simple executable written in C++, VB or even HTML, is easier to deploy. > > >However, when an experiment requires response-duration recording and=20 > >accurate timing of events, I always resort to E-Prime, because I know > they=20 > >invested much effort in accuracy. > > > > > > > >I wonder whether anyone can suggest other environments which offer=20 > >accurate > >timing (or tools that can easily produce accurate timing) that can be > ran=20 > >on most computers without installing anything but the experiment file. > > > > > > > >On the same note: What do you think about Matlab as an alternative for > >E-Prime? > > > > > > > >Thank you, > > > >Yoav > > _________________________________________________________________ > Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger=20 > http://messenger.msn.nl/ > > > > From baranan at post.tau.ac.il Mon Jan 17 18:24:59 2005 From: baranan at post.tau.ac.il (yoav Bar-Anan) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:24:59 +0200 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Leisha, Sudevan Thank you for your answers. I'm not sure I understood the part about "intuit": Is there an environment called "intuit", or has my English failed me? Where can I read about it? By the way I found a page that might have some answers for me, and for others too: http://psychtoolbox.org/library.html Thanks, Yoav From leisha at decisionresearch.org Mon Jan 17 19:07:46 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha) Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:07:46 -0500 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime Message-ID: Dear Yoav, Your English does not fail you. Intuit is the name of a programming application for psychological testing, similar to E-Prime. Leisha baranan at post.tau.ac.il wrote: > Leisha, Sudevan > > Thank you for your answers. > I'm not sure I understood the part about "intuit": > Is there an environment called "intuit", or has my English failed me? Where > can I read about it? > > By the way I found a page that might have some answers for me, and for > others too: > http://psychtoolbox.org/library.html > > Thanks, > Yoav > > From leisha at decisionresearch.org Tue Jan 18 17:31:38 2005 From: leisha at decisionresearch.org (Leisha Wharfield) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:31:38 -0800 Subject: response duration, but not with EPrime In-Reply-To: <005201c4fd2f$b89ca3a0$879c4284@DOMI2> Message-ID: My mistake; you're right. I'm sorry for the confusion. Intuit is another software compan. They make TurboTax and Quicken. I mixed the two names up. Leisha Yoav Bar Anan wrote: > Thanks Leisha > > Inquist I know. I thought intuit is something else. > > Thank you for your efforts, > Yoav > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leisha Wharfield" > > To: "yoav Bar-Anan" > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: response duration, but not with EPrime > > >> Here's their website: http://millisecond.com/ >> >> yoav Bar-Anan wrote: >> >>> Dear Leisha, >>> >>> Could you please tell me where can I find details about intuit. I >>> simply couldn't find it in the traditional google way. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Yoav >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leisha" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: Re: RE: response duration, but not with EPrime >>> >>> >>>> Dear Yoav, >>>> >>>> Your English does not fail you. Intuit is the name of a programming >>>> application for psychological testing, similar to E-Prime. >>>> >>>> Leisha >>>> >>>> baranan at post.tau.ac.il wrote: >>>> >>>>> Leisha, Sudevan >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your answers. >>>>> I'm not sure I understood the part about "intuit": >>>>> Is there an environment called "intuit", or has my English failed me? >>>> >>>> >>>> Where >>>> >>>>> can I read about it? >>>>> >>>>> By the way I found a page that might have some answers for me, and >>>>> for >>>>> others too: >>>>> http://psychtoolbox.org/library.html >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Yoav >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System >>>> at the Tel-Aviv University CC. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System >> at the Tel-Aviv University CC. >> > > > From r.l.c.mitchell at reading.ac.uk Tue Jan 25 10:56:42 2005 From: r.l.c.mitchell at reading.ac.uk (Rachel Mitchell) Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:56:42 -0000 Subject: E-prime and skin-conductance response experiments Message-ID: Hi everyone Does anyone use E-prime in conjunction with SCR recording equipment (either biopac or psylab) I've been asked a question about e-prime/SCR recording that I thought someone might know the answer to.... 'is it possible to have E Prime send a signal to the PC recording SCR when a new block of text is presented or when a response to a question is made' stimuli are presented visually (rather than auditorily) responses are mouse clicks Regards Rachel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Rachel L. C. Mitchell Lecturer in Cognitive Psychology, University of Reading Honorary Research Fellow, Institute of Psychiatry Research Psychologist, Berkshire Healthcare NHS Trust Correspondence Address: School of Psychology Whiteknights Road University of Reading Reading Berkshire RG6 6AL Tel: +44 (0)118 378 8523 Direct Dial: +44 (0)118 378 7530 Fax: +44 (0)118 378 6715 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Thu Jan 27 08:51:47 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:51:47 +0100 Subject: E-prime and skin-conductance response experiments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hi rachel, you will require a special isolation module (STP100C) for the biopac configuration to be able to (safely) connect the stimulus PC to the acquistion hardware. (http://biopac.com/product.cgi?type=view&item=STP100C) Since a few months, BioPac also offers the correct interface cable to connect this module to a printer port. After the hardware is setup, you should use some inline EPrime script to send the digital triggers to the LPT port. There are two options: 1) insert some inline script somewhere before the object that will generate onset and reset codes. In this example the object is called 'mystim': ' for the onset (code 255 as example): mystim.OnsetSignalEnabled = True mystim.OnsetSignalData = 255 mystim.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 ' default address of LPT1 ' to reset: mystim.OffsetSignalEnabled = True mystim.OffsetSignalData = 0 ' just reset all bits mystim.OffsetSignalPort = &H378 2) Use the WritePort command to send digial values: WritePort &H378, 255 ... ' and at a later point: WritePort &H378, 0 ' to reset all bits Option 2 is a bit tricky when you also use so called PreRelease intervals, which could change the start time of your script and lead to unexpected trigger times. Also note that the values you send to the LPT port should be stable for at least the sampling interval time used on your biopac configuration. (I.e., don't reset the bits within 4 msec if you sample at 250Hz) Just another thing: skin conductance responses need some time to 'relax' after a stimulus, so don't make you stimulus-to-stimulus time too short. hope this helps. Paul Groot Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam ITM-FPP (see also http://www.psy.vu.nl/download/menu/) >From: "Rachel Mitchell" >To: "Eprime mailing list" >Subject: E-prime and skin-conductance response experiments >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:56:42 -0000 > >Hi everyone > >Does anyone use E-prime in conjunction with SCR recording equipment (either >biopac or psylab) > >I've been asked a question about e-prime/SCR recording that I thought >someone might know the answer to.... > >'is it possible to have E Prime send a signal to the PC recording SCR when >a >new block of text is presented or when a response to a question is made' > >stimuli are presented visually (rather than auditorily) >responses are mouse clicks > >Regards >Rachel > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Dr Rachel L. C. Mitchell >Lecturer in Cognitive Psychology, University of Reading >Honorary Research Fellow, Institute of Psychiatry >Research Psychologist, Berkshire Healthcare NHS Trust > >Correspondence Address: >School of Psychology >Whiteknights Road >University of Reading >Reading >Berkshire >RG6 6AL > >Tel: +44 (0)118 378 8523 >Direct Dial: +44 (0)118 378 7530 >Fax: +44 (0)118 378 6715 >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > _________________________________________________________________ Gebruik MSN Webmessenger op je werk en op school http://webmessenger.msn.com/ From wifst3 at pitt.edu Sat Jan 29 22:28:37 2005 From: wifst3 at pitt.edu (Wiltrud Fassbinder) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:28:37 -0500 Subject: pseudorandomization Message-ID: Hi, my experiment requires pseudorandomization of stimuli based on several criteria, which I am doing via a perl script (courtesy of my private tech support). So far I have converted the tab seperated output into a text files, opened them with Excel, and pasted them individually for each block for each participant. Is there any way to automatize this process? Thanks, Wiltrud Wiltrud Fassbinder Communication Science & Disorders University of Pittsburgh From wifst3 at pitt.edu Sat Jan 29 22:31:46 2005 From: wifst3 at pitt.edu (Wiltrud Fassbinder) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:31:46 -0500 Subject: Response box USB serial cable Message-ID: I have a computer available that does not have a serial port, and I want to use the E-prime response box. So I thought I could use a USB-serial cable to connect it. Is there anything I should be watching out for, or will any cable work? Thanks again, Wiltrud Wiltrud Fassbinder Communication Science and Disorder University of Pittsburgh From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Sun Jan 30 18:54:16 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:54:16 +0100 Subject: Response box USB serial cable In-Reply-To: <41FC0ED2.2050007@pitt.edu> Message-ID: Dear Wiltrud, Most USB-to-RS232 interface cables will work right out of the box, but you should be aware of the following: Although USB hardware supports much higher data throughput rates than RS232 (i.e. can transfer more bytes per second), the USB-protocol consists of a rather complex driver hierarchy, which could introduce a reasonably amount of delay?s during data transmission. So, USB will influence the accuracy of response times measured by E-Prime. (I haven?t measured those timings yet, but perhaps PST is willing to give you some details.) When accurate response times are not required, then you can safely use a USB-serial cable to connect the serial box. However, while installing the driver for the virtual COM-port, windows will assign the first available (unused) COM-port to your cable. You should check the assigned port number (Control panel> System-> Hardware->COM & LPT ports) and make sure it corresponds to the settings in your EPrime script. (I think EPrime only supports COM1 to COM4). Also notice that windows will assign a different COM port when you switch to another USB port. You might have to manually configure all the available ports to have identical port numbers. Paul Groot Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam The Netherlands >From: Wiltrud Fassbinder >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: Response box USB serial cable >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:31:46 -0500 > >I have a computer available that does not have a serial port, and I want to >use the E-prime response box. So I thought I could use a USB-serial cable >to connect it. Is there anything I should be watching out for, or will any >cable work? > >Thanks again, >Wiltrud > >Wiltrud Fassbinder >Communication Science and Disorder >University of Pittsburgh > > > _________________________________________________________________ Altijd in contact met de kleinkinderen: MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ From pauls_postbus at hotmail.com Sun Jan 30 19:19:22 2005 From: pauls_postbus at hotmail.com (Paul Gr) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:19:22 +0100 Subject: pseudorandomization In-Reply-To: <41FC0E15.8010809@pitt.edu> Message-ID: It is possible to let eprime load the contents for the list objects from a tab delimited text file directly. Just set the ?LoadMethod? to ?File? and type the filename in the Filename field. Note that EPrime is a bit sensitive about the layout of the text files. The first line should contain the names of the attributes, separated by tab-characters. Also include the 3 obligatory ?weight?, ?nested? and ?procedure? columns, and be sure not to add extra tab?s at the end of the lines. Paul Groot Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam The Netherlands >From: Wiltrud Fassbinder >To: eprime at mail.talkbank.org >Subject: pseudorandomization >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:28:37 -0500 > >Hi, >my experiment requires pseudorandomization of stimuli based on several >criteria, which I am doing via a perl script (courtesy of my private tech >support). So far I have converted the tab seperated output into a text >files, opened them with Excel, and pasted them individually for each block >for each participant. Is there any way to automatize this process? > >Thanks, >Wiltrud > >Wiltrud Fassbinder >Communication Science & Disorders >University of Pittsburgh > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger: altijd en overal beschikbaar http://webmessenger.msn.com/ From boris.kleber at uni-tuebingen.de Mon Jan 31 09:29:43 2005 From: boris.kleber at uni-tuebingen.de (Boris Kleber) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 10:29:43 +0100 Subject: sending EEG triggers in an combined fMRI/EEG experiment Message-ID: Dear list members I'd like to use e-prime for an combined fMRI/EEG experiment. We'll use fMRI in a sparse-sampling design so that EEG is not affected by the scanning process. The presentation should be triggered by the MR pulse, which is no problem. However, I couldn't find detailed description on how to send a trigger to the EEG computer simultaneously with presentation onset. I greatly appreciate any suggestion. Boris From benn0224 at umn.edu Mon Jan 31 15:28:14 2005 From: benn0224 at umn.edu (Stephen D. Benning) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 09:28:14 -0600 Subject: sending EEG triggers in an combined fMRI/EEG experiment In-Reply-To: <004001c50777$68290ab0$8e660286@Bokle> Message-ID: On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 10:29 +0100, Boris Kleber wrote: > Dear list members > > I'd like to use e-prime for an combined fMRI/EEG experiment. We'll use fMRI > in a sparse-sampling design so that EEG is not affected by the scanning > process. The presentation should be triggered by the MR pulse, which is no > problem. However, I couldn't find detailed description on how to send a > trigger to the EEG computer simultaneously with presentation onset. You can use the OnsetSignal (and OffsetSignal) properties of each object to send these triggers (and reset the trigger port to a "hold" value). I'll assume that you have some object called OBJECT, a trigger port with the address TRIGGER_PORT, and the trigger value you want to send as TRIGGER_VALUE. At the very beginning of your experiment, in a block of Inline code, have the following lines: OBJECT.OnsetSignalEnabled = True OBJECT.OnsetSignalPort = TRIGGER_PORT OBJECT.OnsetSignalData = TRIGGER_VALUE If you want to reset the trigger port to a hold value (with the value HOLD_VALUE) after the object has been presented, add these lines to the same block of Inline code: OBJECT.OffsetSignalEnabled = True OBJECT.OffsetSignalPort = TRIGGER_PORT OBJECT.OffsetSignalData = HOLD_VALUE You'll want to repeat these lines of codes for all the objects you want to have triggered, changing OBJECT to be the name of the appropriate object in each case. Now, if you'd like to assign a different value to TRIGGER_VALUE each time OBJECT is presented (for example, if OBJECT is within a listbox, and TRIGGER_ATTRIB is the column in the list box that gives the trigger values that should be used for each presentation of OBJECT), add the following in an Inline code block immediately before OBJECT: OBJECT.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("TRIGGER_ATTRIB") > I greatly appreciate any suggestion. > > Boris > > -- Stephen D. Benning Department of Psychology University of Minnesota Office: N631 Elliott Hall 75 East River Road Minneapolis, MN 55455 E-mail: benn0224 at umn.edu