From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 1 00:44:37 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:44:37 +1000 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B991F9@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Could be wrong here, but ... I don't think the pixel size is correct. A pixel is a unit with area .. a mm or cm is a unit of distance. Pixels are square (when used by modern compter displays), so their diagonal is 1.41*side. It seems to me that this calculation returns the number of pixel sides that would fill the diagonal distance, not necessarily the number of pixels. So you could possibly work out how many pixels in the diagonal by dividing 800 by 1.41, but I think this is wrong also - If you drew a 640*480 grid and then drew the diagonal, would it follow the diagonals of all of the pixels it passed through? I'm not sure that it would. When it comes to computations of distance in terms of number of pixels, I think it is simple to define vertical, or horizontal planes, in this way, but very difficult for any other angles. Oh. Visual angle is the angle an object subtends in the visual field, not where it is in the visual field. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_angle .. if you wanted a circle display that subtended 3.2 degrees visual angle, then ,... tan(visual angle) = diameter / viewing distance .. say viewing distance of 1.2 metres tan(3.2) = diameter / 1.2 metres = diameter of 6.7cm .. say viewing distance of 1.5 metres = diameter of 8.3cm .. say viewing distance of 0.9 metres = diameter of 5.0cm At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > Sorry for responding so late - the > message below should be seen as answer here and > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > but as you will most likely be wanting to > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: >1. Write down the size of your monitor, >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. >2. Write down the resolution used in your >experiment. This you can find under >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to >calculate the number of pixels used to create a >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually >thinking that the authors use visual angle >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles >requires the information above. Also, you will >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) >as to how far the monitor is placed from the >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. >Visual angle refers to the angle of the stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > s > /s >Eye< s > \s > s > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the >entire screen has a visual angle of the >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe >I made a few mistakes in the above simple >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools >which will give you the information without >headache: just use your measuring tape and >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > >Best, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: Target position > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 >exactly >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : >right/Lift,how > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > of the total screen size. > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > , and I want to present target letter > appears in one out of six possible positions > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > to the left or right of the circle, > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > as " The task display consisted of > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > distractor letter, presented to the left or > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 1 02:33:15 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:33:15 +1000 Subject: Echo to display--how can I get more control? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 03:40 AM 1/08/2009, you wrote: >@Peter Quain > >I've tried adding a text box with [Slide1.RESP], which works in my >feedback object, to my Slide1 Object. E-Prime doesn't like it, says >that it doesn't exist, which makes sense, because it doesn't yet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm trying to put together an experimental setup in which participants respond to 3 different stimuli presented simultaneously. They respond either A, B, or C. The way I have this set up is as a slide object with the 3 stimuli, accepting their 3 character response. While I can get these three character responses to echo to the screen in one location, I'd like to have each character of their responses echo to the screen under its corresponding stimuli, and I can't seem to get this to work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ... perhaps you could have your stimulus slide (Stim), an inline, then a copy of the stimulus slide (Fback) with text boxes. Stim could terminate when it has collected a response, then the inline grabs the response and sets the text parameters for the following Fback slide. The transition from Stim to Fback need only occupy a single screen refresh, so would unlikely be noticed by subject. Not sure exactly what you are asking in each trial, but if in each trial the response is only made to one of the three stimuli, and you don't want empty text boxes in Fback, then make three Fback slides with only 1 textbox on each, beneath the stimulus that was responded to, and precede each one with a flag. The inline would then include an If statement assessing which stim was responded to, with a corresponding GoTo command jumping to the flag. >@Blaire > >I have used three echoes, but each displays all of the response text >(the "correct response" for the slide is a 3 character string). I >couldn't see anything in the echo display properties that would let me >set the allowable keys. > >Thanks for the responses though. > >On Jul 31, 4:12 am, Blaire wrote: > > Are they just typing A, B OR C, and you just want the letter to appear > > under the correct box? > > > > If so, you should be able to go with 3 echoes, but in the echo > > positioned where you want the A to appear, have only A be allowable, > > in the echo positioned where you want the B to appear, have only B be > > allowable...ect > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 1 05:42:23 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:42:23 +1000 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B991F9@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Screen placement can be a pain. Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a clockface paradigm as an example. In slide objects it is probably trial and errror using callipers, protractor etc that allows you to place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged neatly around circumference of circle so that (having decided on an appropriate viewing distance) the entire display subtends x degrees visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are appropriately located. The text boxes on the slide object are just rectangles (which can be square) with ceratin fill properties. When the slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x y) of each text (or image object), which will include values for the background colour and for the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. It makes sense to organise location of screen elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise functions that draw collections of pixels within them. The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels around the line in a rectangle and using line function to draw in the rectangle allows precise placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any pixel drawing computation which are all handled underneath. Same with the circle. The other interesting thing next on this page is the function for circle. I don't understand C, but ... something like this could be implemented in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. So, I think that one way to get precise placement of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to use the canvas object and, roughly: - run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, 120, ... 300 degrees in an array - populate another array with font character(s) - feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles - populate the rectangle(s) with font characters - draw to screen To get the correct size of the whole stimulus display you'd just need to adjust the radius value in the circle function, and measure the stimulus display with callipers until the correct visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > Sorry for responding so late - the > message below should be seen as answer here and > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > but as you will most likely be wanting to > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: >1. Write down the size of your monitor, >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. >2. Write down the resolution used in your >experiment. This you can find under >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to >calculate the number of pixels used to create a >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually >thinking that the authors use visual angle >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles >requires the information above. Also, you will >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) >as to how far the monitor is placed from the >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. >Visual angle refers to the angle of the stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > s > /s >Eye< s > \s > s > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the >entire screen has a visual angle of the >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe >I made a few mistakes in the above simple >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools >which will give you the information without >headache: just use your measuring tape and >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > >Best, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: Target position > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 >exactly >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : >right/Lift,how > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > of the total screen size. > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > , and I want to present target letter > appears in one out of six possible positions > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > to the left or right of the circle, > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > as " The task display consisted of > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > distractor letter, presented to the left or > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Aug 3 10:06:55 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:06:55 +0100 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <200908010542.n715gus3013129@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Peter, Ashraf & List, Whilst I appreciate the concerns you raised regarding my previous email (and yes, that is exactly what is typically meant by visual angle, hence angle = arctangent(diameter/distance), or if you use excel: DEGREES(ATAN(diameter/distance)), I think below you are getting a bit ahead of the stereotypical E-Primer (typically psychologists rather than programmers). I have occasionally done things like what you suggest below, but know few who would go into the whole fuss of canvas programming, which typically requires extra timing operations (because you log essentially nothing unless programmed), manual screen redraws ('waitforverticalblank'), a second canvas to use as buffer, etc. For those who like that sort of thing, I would be more than willing to send my messy programs, such as this one: http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/UC11.es (save as/ use different name, sorry about the Dutch instructions), illustrating at least the above concepts, and having a couple of nice functions for drawing stuff to the screen. Most people seem to prefer doing something easier, though. I would suggest for the current task a slide with a number of textobjects around a centre, measuring the distance with your measuring tape, tweaking it a bit, until right. Or you could use some basic Pythagoras to get the X and Y values (as Peter suggested) of each single degree within a circle, write them down, put 360 textdisplays in the slidedisplay (or, say, a fifth of that), and hide the ones you don't need. Or drawing all of it in mspaint (start>run>mspaint), which takes a little while, but then again, programming would take some too. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain Sent: 01 August 2009 06:42 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle Screen placement can be a pain. Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a clockface paradigm as an example. In slide objects it is probably trial and errror using callipers, protractor etc that allows you to place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged neatly around circumference of circle so that (having decided on an appropriate viewing distance) the entire display subtends x degrees visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are appropriately located. The text boxes on the slide object are just rectangles (which can be square) with ceratin fill properties. When the slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x y) of each text (or image object), which will include values for the background colour and for the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. It makes sense to organise location of screen elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise functions that draw collections of pixels within them. The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels around the line in a rectangle and using line function to draw in the rectangle allows precise placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any pixel drawing computation which are all handled underneath. Same with the circle. The other interesting thing next on this page is the function for circle. I don't understand C, but ... something like this could be implemented in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. So, I think that one way to get precise placement of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to use the canvas object and, roughly: - run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, 120, ... 300 degrees in an array - populate another array with font character(s) - feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles - populate the rectangle(s) with font characters - draw to screen To get the correct size of the whole stimulus display you'd just need to adjust the radius value in the circle function, and measure the stimulus display with callipers until the correct visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > Sorry for responding so late - the > message below should be seen as answer here and > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > but as you will most likely be wanting to > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: >1. Write down the size of your monitor, >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. >2. Write down the resolution used in your >experiment. This you can find under >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to >calculate the number of pixels used to create a >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually >thinking that the authors use visual angle >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles >requires the information above. Also, you will >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) >as to how far the monitor is placed from the >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. >Visual angle refers to the angle of the stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > s > /s >Eye< s > \s > s > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the >entire screen has a visual angle of the >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe >I made a few mistakes in the above simple >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools >which will give you the information without >headache: just use your measuring tape and >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > >Best, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: Target position > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 >exactly >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : >right/Lift,how > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > of the total screen size. > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > , and I want to present target letter > appears in one out of six possible positions > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > to the left or right of the circle, > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > as " The task display consisted of > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > distractor letter, presented to the left or > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 3 11:04:06 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:04:06 +1000 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B9941F@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich It is lots of fun playing with e-prime. I think groups like this - notably the archives - are good for finding ideas about which ways you may skin your cat. It is nice that different solutions are proposed, perhaps, including those that most people may not employ (but that some might). It is also nice, I think, that different people contribute, and leave their information for others to examine, and make of what they will. Also, I think this was a scientific dialogue. In which case, if something *seems* incorrect it is appropriate to say so, and provide one's logic, rather than remain silent for fear of being wrong, or creating offense. If this logic is wrong or right can be assessed, and the list has done its job. Best Peter At 08:06 PM 3/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Peter, Ashraf & List, > Whilst I appreciate the concerns you > raised regarding my previous email (and yes, > that is exactly what is typically meant by > visual angle, hence angle = > arctangent(diameter/distance), or if you use > excel: DEGREES(ATAN(diameter/distance)), I > think below you are getting a bit ahead of the > stereotypical E-Primer (typically psychologists > rather than programmers). I have occasionally > done things like what you suggest below, but > know few who would go into the whole fuss of > canvas programming, which typically requires > extra timing operations (because you log > essentially nothing unless programmed), manual > screen redraws ('waitforverticalblank'), a > second canvas to use as buffer, etc. For those > who like that sort of thing, I would be more > than willing to send my messy programs, such as > this one: > http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/UC11.es (save > as/ use different name, sorry about the Dutch > instructions), illustrating at least the above > concepts, and having a couple of nice functions > for drawing stuff to the screen. > > Most people seem to prefer doing > something easier, though. I would suggest for > the current task a slide with a number of > textobjects around a centre, measuring the > distance with your measuring tape, tweaking it > a bit, until right. Or you could use some basic > Pythagoras to get the X and Y values (as Peter > suggested) of each single degree within a > circle, write them down, put 360 textdisplays > in the slidedisplay (or, say, a fifth of that), > and hide the ones you don't need. Or drawing > all of it in mspaint (start>run>mspaint), which > takes a little while, but then again, programming would take some too. > > Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain >Sent: 01 August 2009 06:42 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle > > > >Screen placement can be a pain. > >Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a >clockface paradigm as an example. In slide >objects it is probably trial and errror using >callipers, protractor etc that allows you to >place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged >neatly around circumference of circle so that >(having decided on an appropriate viewing >distance) the entire display subtends x degrees >visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in >each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are >appropriately located. The text boxes on the >slide object are just rectangles (which can be >square) with ceratin fill properties. When the >slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will >draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x >y) of each text (or image object), which will >include values for the background colour and for >the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. > >It makes sense to organise location of screen >elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of >rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise >functions that draw collections of pixels within them. > >The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of >drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. > >http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html > >With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each >vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? >Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels >around the line in a rectangle and using line >function to draw in the rectangle allows precise >placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within >it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any >pixel drawing computation which are all handled >underneath. Same with the circle. > >The other interesting thing next on this page is >the function for circle. I don't understand C, >but ... something like this could be implemented >in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. > >So, I think that one way to get precise placement >of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to >use the canvas object and, roughly: > >- run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle >screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, >120, ... 300 degrees in an array >- populate another array with font character(s) >- feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles >- populate the rectangle(s) with font characters >- draw to screen > >To get the correct size of the whole stimulus >display you'd just need to adjust the radius >value in the circle function, and measure the >stimulus display with callipers until the correct >visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli >are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. > > > >At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Ashraf, > > Sorry for responding so late - the > > message below should be seen as answer here and > > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > > but as you will most likely be wanting to > > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: > >1. Write down the size of your monitor, > >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. > >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. > >2. Write down the resolution used in your > >experiment. This you can find under > >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties > >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by > >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y > >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. > >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by > >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> > >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. > >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of > >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels > >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 > >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > > > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm > >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to > >calculate the number of pixels used to create a > >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > > > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually > >thinking that the authors use visual angle > >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any > >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles > >requires the information above. Also, you will > >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) > >as to how far the monitor is placed from the > >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. > >Visual angle refers to the angle of the > stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > > > s > > /s > >Eye< s > > \s > > s > > > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > > > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm > >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the > >entire screen has a visual angle of the > >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which > >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, > >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm > >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 > >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 > >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to > >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > > > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe > >I made a few mistakes in the above simple > >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools > >which will give you the information without > >headache: just use your measuring tape and > >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a > >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye > >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > > > >Best, > >Mich > > > > > > > >Michiel Spapé > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Re: Target position > > > > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the > >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... > >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 > >exactly > >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > > > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : > >right/Lift,how > > > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > > of the total screen size. > > > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > > , and I want to present target letter > > appears in one out of six possible positions > > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > > to the left or right of the circle, > > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > > as " The task display consisted of > > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > > distractor letter, presented to the left or > > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Aug 3 11:24:59 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:24:59 +0100 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <200908031112.n73BCJ46020517@mail14.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Peter, Agreed wholeheartedly. Excuse me if my style came across as a bit aggravated; it was Monday morning, but nothing worth metacommunicating over (to say something psychobabblish) was intended! Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain Sent: 03 August 2009 12:04 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle Hi Mich It is lots of fun playing with e-prime. I think groups like this - notably the archives - are good for finding ideas about which ways you may skin your cat. It is nice that different solutions are proposed, perhaps, including those that most people may not employ (but that some might). It is also nice, I think, that different people contribute, and leave their information for others to examine, and make of what they will. Also, I think this was a scientific dialogue. In which case, if something *seems* incorrect it is appropriate to say so, and provide one's logic, rather than remain silent for fear of being wrong, or creating offense. If this logic is wrong or right can be assessed, and the list has done its job. Best Peter At 08:06 PM 3/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Peter, Ashraf & List, > Whilst I appreciate the concerns you > raised regarding my previous email (and yes, > that is exactly what is typically meant by > visual angle, hence angle = > arctangent(diameter/distance), or if you use > excel: DEGREES(ATAN(diameter/distance)), I > think below you are getting a bit ahead of the > stereotypical E-Primer (typically psychologists > rather than programmers). I have occasionally > done things like what you suggest below, but > know few who would go into the whole fuss of > canvas programming, which typically requires > extra timing operations (because you log > essentially nothing unless programmed), manual > screen redraws ('waitforverticalblank'), a > second canvas to use as buffer, etc. For those > who like that sort of thing, I would be more > than willing to send my messy programs, such as > this one: > http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/UC11.es (save > as/ use different name, sorry about the Dutch > instructions), illustrating at least the above > concepts, and having a couple of nice functions > for drawing stuff to the screen. > > Most people seem to prefer doing > something easier, though. I would suggest for > the current task a slide with a number of > textobjects around a centre, measuring the > distance with your measuring tape, tweaking it > a bit, until right. Or you could use some basic > Pythagoras to get the X and Y values (as Peter > suggested) of each single degree within a > circle, write them down, put 360 textdisplays > in the slidedisplay (or, say, a fifth of that), > and hide the ones you don't need. Or drawing > all of it in mspaint (start>run>mspaint), which > takes a little while, but then again, programming would take some too. > > Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain >Sent: 01 August 2009 06:42 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle > > > >Screen placement can be a pain. > >Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a >clockface paradigm as an example. In slide >objects it is probably trial and errror using >callipers, protractor etc that allows you to >place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged >neatly around circumference of circle so that >(having decided on an appropriate viewing >distance) the entire display subtends x degrees >visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in >each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are >appropriately located. The text boxes on the >slide object are just rectangles (which can be >square) with ceratin fill properties. When the >slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will >draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x >y) of each text (or image object), which will >include values for the background colour and for >the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. > >It makes sense to organise location of screen >elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of >rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise >functions that draw collections of pixels within them. > >The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of >drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. > >http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html > >With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each >vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? >Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels >around the line in a rectangle and using line >function to draw in the rectangle allows precise >placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within >it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any >pixel drawing computation which are all handled >underneath. Same with the circle. > >The other interesting thing next on this page is >the function for circle. I don't understand C, >but ... something like this could be implemented >in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. > >So, I think that one way to get precise placement >of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to >use the canvas object and, roughly: > >- run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle >screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, >120, ... 300 degrees in an array >- populate another array with font character(s) >- feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles >- populate the rectangle(s) with font characters >- draw to screen > >To get the correct size of the whole stimulus >display you'd just need to adjust the radius >value in the circle function, and measure the >stimulus display with callipers until the correct >visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli >are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. > > > >At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Ashraf, > > Sorry for responding so late - the > > message below should be seen as answer here and > > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > > but as you will most likely be wanting to > > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: > >1. Write down the size of your monitor, > >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. > >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. > >2. Write down the resolution used in your > >experiment. This you can find under > >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties > >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by > >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y > >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. > >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by > >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> > >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. > >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of > >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels > >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 > >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > > > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm > >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to > >calculate the number of pixels used to create a > >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > > > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually > >thinking that the authors use visual angle > >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any > >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles > >requires the information above. Also, you will > >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) > >as to how far the monitor is placed from the > >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. > >Visual angle refers to the angle of the > stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > > > s > > /s > >Eye< s > > \s > > s > > > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > > > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm > >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the > >entire screen has a visual angle of the > >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which > >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, > >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm > >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 > >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 > >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to > >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > > > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe > >I made a few mistakes in the above simple > >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools > >which will give you the information without > >headache: just use your measuring tape and > >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a > >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye > >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > > > >Best, > >Mich > > > > > > > >Michiel Spapé > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Re: Target position > > > > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the > >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... > >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 > >exactly > >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > > > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : > >right/Lift,how > > > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > > of the total screen size. > > > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > > , and I want to present target letter > > appears in one out of six possible positions > > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > > to the left or right of the circle, > > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > > as " The task display consisted of > > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > > distractor letter, presented to the left or > > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 09:13:01 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 02:13:01 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? Message-ID: Hi all! I got something.... Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an (unreferenced) list??? Elaborated background info: I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial (pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each time. I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray (0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for instance: negarray(0) = "negword1" negarray(1) = "negword2" etc This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute 'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- notation not working properly? Best regards, liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Tue Aug 4 10:03:28 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:03:28 +1000 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the stim sometime - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the string in each cell of your array Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. ... ' for 0 option base Dim YourArray() As String Dim s$ As String Dim LineCount As Integer Dim n As Integer ' Find out the number of lines Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 LineCount = -1 Do While Not EOF(1) LineCount = LineCount + 1 Input #1, s$ Loop Close #1 ' make the array the size of the document... ReDim YourArray(LineCount) ' Read in the stimuli Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 For n = 0 To LineCount Input #1, YourArray(n) Next n Close #1 At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi all! > >I got something.... > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an >(unreferenced) list??? > >Elaborated background info: >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each >time. > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for >instance: > >negarray(0) = "negword1" >negarray(1) = "negword2" >etc > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- >notation not working properly? > >Best regards, > >liwenna > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 10:44:25 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:44:25 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <200908041004.n74A4PhB006071@mail7.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Thank you for your quick reply Peter! I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) Thanks again! liwenna On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > stim sometime > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > string in each cell of your array > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > ... > ' for 0 option base > Dim YourArray() As String > Dim s$ As String > Dim LineCount As Integer > Dim n As Integer > > ' Find out the number of lines > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > LineCount = -1 > Do While Not EOF(1) > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > Input #1, s$ > Loop > Close #1 > > ' make the array the size of the document... > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > ' Read in the stimuli > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > For n = 0 To LineCount > Input #1, YourArray(n) > Next n > Close #1 > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi all! > > >I got something.... > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > >(unreferenced) list??? > > >Elaborated background info: > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > >time. > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > >instance: > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > >etc > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work....  I tried it with > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0]  as > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > >notation not working properly? > > >Best regards, > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ronitibon at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:43:13 2009 From: ronitibon at gmail.com (Roni Tibon) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:43:13 +0200 Subject: Fwd: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB adapter). The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) . Any suggestions? Thanks, Roni --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SRBox.zip Type: application/zip Size: 63731 bytes Desc: not available URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:08:09 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:08:09 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <8c49c06a-5f17-458e-91d3-fbf3620b86e2@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: The script works just fine Peter! (only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word does the trick) Thanks so much! Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > Thanks again! > > liwenna > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > stim sometime > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > string in each cell of your array > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > ... > > ' for 0 option base > > Dim YourArray() As String > > Dim s$ As String > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > Dim n As Integer > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > LineCount = -1 > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > Input #1, s$ > > Loop > > Close #1 > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > Next n > > Close #1 > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > >Hi all! > > > >I got something.... > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > >Elaborated background info: > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > >time. > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > >instance: > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > >etc > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > >notation not working properly? > > > >Best regards, > > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Wed Aug 5 09:13:16 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:13:16 +1000 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: good, i hadn't run that code. there should be no timing problems because of the import routine - that is all going on before your trial procedure starts, i gather, so been and gone by the time important things are afoot. Can you post how you go about populating list from array, if you have the time? ta At 07:08 PM 5/08/2009, you wrote: >The script works just fine Peter! > >(only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word >does the trick) > >Thanks so much! > > >Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? > > > >On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > > > Thanks again! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > > stim sometime > > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > > string in each cell of your array > > > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > > ... > > > ' for 0 option base > > > Dim YourArray() As String > > > Dim s$ As String > > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > > Dim n As Integer > > > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > LineCount = -1 > > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > > Input #1, s$ > > > Loop > > > Close #1 > > > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > > Next n > > > Close #1 > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all! > > > > > >I got something.... > > > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > > > >Elaborated background info: > > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > > >time. > > > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > > >instance: > > > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > > >etc > > > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > > >notation not working properly? > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >liwenna > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Aug 5 09:22:48 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:22:48 +0100 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Roni, Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. Other than that, I can't imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could try re-installing e-prime. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roni Tibon Sent: 05 August 2009 09:43 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Fwd: SRBox problem Hi all, We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB adapter). The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) . Any suggestions? Thanks, Roni This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronitibon at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:43:03 2009 From: ronitibon at gmail.com (Roni Tibon) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:43:03 +0200 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B998CF@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Thank you for your reply! The box was added to the experimet preoperties. I followed what you suggested - running a simple experiment with just the srbox, and got the same error message. The lights did not turn off when I started the experiment. Does it mean that e-prime doesn't connect with the box? I'd love to hear from you, or any one else, if there's anything else I should check or do, before trying to uninstall the program. Thanks! Roni 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape > Hi Roni, > > Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment > Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), > rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off > and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn > off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change > nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text > display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. > > > > Other than that, I can’t imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device > installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could > try re-installing e-prime. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > *Michiel Spapé* > > *Research Fellow* > > *Perception & Action group* > > *University of Nottingham* > > *School of Psychology*** > > > > *From:* e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Roni Tibon > *Sent:* 05 August 2009 09:43 > *To:* e-prime at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Fwd: SRBox problem > > > > Hi all, > > > > We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have > recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime > using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image > SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. > > > > The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB > adapter). > > > > The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. > We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the > machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port > (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. > > > Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can > see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications > Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? > > However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK > (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) > . > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks, > > Roni > > > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Aug 5 10:52:04 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:52:04 +0100 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Roni, Bummer. No, that would indeed suggest that rather than anything in E-Prime, there seems to be something malfunctioning in the driver. Have you tried running the experiment, with the SRBox, on a different computer? I tried to create an experiment like I suggested below and (though I have no SRBox in my office) added the SRBox, BUT disabled the PST Serial Response Box driver. This caused the exact same crash as your screenshot. Re-enabling the PST Serial Response Box Driver in device manager caused my experiment to run normally (though, of course, I couldn't get very far without the actual PST box). So, you might try uninstalling this particular driver and reinstalling it. Perhaps there's a little installer for it in the E-Prime setup? The PST SRBox Driver is supposed to be where you show it, by the way. It looks ugly in its unrecognised state, but it's always been like that (if I am correctly, even under win98). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roni Tibon Sent: 05 August 2009 10:43 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: SRBox problem Hi Mich, Thank you for your reply! The box was added to the experimet preoperties. I followed what you suggested - running a simple experiment with just the srbox, and got the same error message. The lights did not turn off when I started the experiment. Does it mean that e-prime doesn't connect with the box? I'd love to hear from you, or any one else, if there's anything else I should check or do, before trying to uninstall the program. Thanks! Roni 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape Hi Roni, Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. Other than that, I can't imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could try re-installing e-prime. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roni Tibon Sent: 05 August 2009 09:43 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Fwd: SRBox problem Hi all, We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB adapter). The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) . Any suggestions? Thanks, Roni This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:18:19 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:18:19 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <200908050914.n759EON3015947@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Sure..! The code to fill the triallist from the array is actually quite some work to type out (it's probably also possible in a more automated way... i just don't trust my own codes enough to do that) but it's very easy to understand. This is the complete code I use now. (I'd use some different coloured fonts but I don't think google groups supports that). Peter's code mentioned above is also shown, but I left out the part where it counts the lines in the .txt-files and gave the arrays a fixed length, as this works just as fine for my task. I use 12 trialpairs total = 24 screens of 2 stimuluswords each and this requires 24 negative words, 24 positive words and 16 neutral words in total, as will be more explained halfway the code. Therefore the positive and negative arrays run from 0 to 23 and the neutral array runs from 0 to 15. The code begins with resetting the triallist. Then there's a lot of dimming followed by the reading of the stimwords, filling the the arrays and lastly randomizing them. This is done for each type of stimulus: negative, positive and neutral respectively. ================================ 'reset the triallist TrialList.Reset Dim negwords(23) As String Dim poswords(23) As String Dim neutwords(15) As String Dim lineword As String Dim LineCount As Integer Dim n As Integer 'fill the array negwords 'Read in the stimuli into the array negwords Open "negative.txt" For Input As #1 For n = 0 To 23 Input #1, negwords(n) Next n Close #1 'Randomize the contents of the array RandomizeArray negwords 'fill the array poswords 'Read in the stimuli into the array poswords Open "positive.txt" For Input As #2 For n = 0 To 23 Input #2, poswords(n) Next n Close #2 'Randomize the contents of the array RandomizeArray poswords 'fill the array neutwords 'Read in the stimuli Open "neutral.txt" For Input As #3 For n = 0 To 15 Input #3, neutwords(n) Next n Close #3 'Randomize the contents of the array RandomizeArray neutwords ================================= For the next part it simply uses the values in the array to fill a triallist that has four attributes. As explained in the opening post; each screen shows two stimuluswords and two screens with a total of 4 stimuluswords make up 1 trial (or 1 trialpair if you like). Subjects have to respond to one of the stimuluswords (target) and ignore the other (distractor). In an experimental trialpair the target in the probetrial is of the same valence as the distractor in the primetrial, and the NAP effect is a slowing down on the probe trial with a negative target due to the distractor in the preceding primetrial also being negative. There are four types of trials, two experimental and two control with different arrangements of postive, negative and neutral valenced words in the target and distractor 'positions'. By filling the triallist level by level with words from the three arrays control is gained over which wordtype (valence) will appear in which position. The list is called triallist and for instance " triallist.setattrib 4 " referes to the 4th level of the triallist. I use 12 total levels (so 12 trialpairs per block) but only the first 4 are shown here as the others are repeats. Trialproc is nested into triallist and contains of two slides, one for the primetrials and one for the probetrials. ================================= 'Populate the Triallist with current array values 'fill level 1 to 12 with experimental trials 'Fill level 1 of Triallist (positive control) TrialList.SetAttrib 1, "primedistractor", negwords(0) Triallist.setattrib 1, "primetarget", negwords(1) Triallist.setattrib 1, "probedistractor", neutwords(0) Triallist.setattrib 1, "probetarget", poswords(0) 'Fill level 2 of Triallist (positive experimental) TrialList.SetAttrib 2, "primedistractor", poswords(1) Triallist.setattrib 2, "primetarget", negwords(2) Triallist.setattrib 2, "probedistractor", neutwords(1) Triallist.setattrib 2, "probetarget", poswords(2) 'Fill level 3 of Triallist (negative control) TrialList.SetAttrib 3, "primedistractor", poswords(3) Triallist.setattrib 3, "primetarget", poswords(4) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probedistractor", neutwords(2) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probetarget", negwords(3) 'Fill level 4 of Triallist (negative experimental) TrialList.SetAttrib 4, "primedistractor", negwords(4) Triallist.setattrib 4, "primetarget", poswords(5) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probedistractor", neutwords(3) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probetarget", negwords(5) ======================== That's all there is to it, basically... :) Not even that hard I see now ^.^ Thanks again for your help Peter! On Aug 5, 11:13 am, Peter Quain wrote: > good, i hadn't run that code. there should be no timing problems > because of the import routine - that is all going on before your > trial procedure starts, i gather, so been and gone by the time > important things are afoot. > > Can you post how you go about populating list from array, if you have > the time? ta > > At 07:08 PM 5/08/2009, you wrote: > > >The script works just fine Peter! > > >(only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word > >does the trick) > > >Thanks so much! > > >Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? > > >On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > > > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > > > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > > > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > > > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > > > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > > > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > > > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > > > Thanks again! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > > > stim sometime > > > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > > > string in each cell of your array > > > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > > > ... > > > > ' for 0 option base > > > > Dim YourArray() As String > > > > Dim s$ As String > > > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > > > Dim n As Integer > > > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > LineCount = -1 > > > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > > > Input #1, s$ > > > > Loop > > > > Close #1 > > > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > > > Next n > > > > Close #1 > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all! > > > > > >I got something.... > > > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > > > >Elaborated background info: > > > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > > > >time. > > > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > > > >instance: > > > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > > > >etc > > > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > > > >notation not working properly? > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:26:49 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:26:49 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <200908050914.n759EON3015947@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: I had a REAL long post but then realised that your question can actually be answered much simpler. Below is part of the filling code. It filles level 3 and 4 of the triallist (so trialpair 3 and 4 that are trials 5/6 and 7/8 as there are two trials (prime and probe) to each trialpair. Triallist therefore consists of 4 attirubtes primedistractor, primetarget, probedistractor and probetarget, to gain control over 2 consecutive 'trials' (two slides prime and probe on the trialproc). Poswords, neutwords and negwords are the names of the three arrays." Triallist setattrib 3 " refers to the 3rd level of triallist. 'Fill level 3 of Triallist (negative control) TrialList.SetAttrib 3, "primedistractor", poswords(3) Triallist.setattrib 3, "primetarget", poswords(4) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probedistractor", neutwords(2) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probetarget", negwords(3) 'Fill level 4 of Triallist (negative experimental) TrialList.SetAttrib 4, "primedistractor", negwords(4) Triallist.setattrib 4, "primetarget", poswords(5) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probedistractor", neutwords(3) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probetarget", negwords(5) It's really very simple, although it's a bit of a hassle to type it all out (should be able to automate it... ) but yet it's far more simple than the version I received from someone else who had done all the randomizing by hand. Thanks again for your help Peter! Best regards, liwenna On Aug 5, 11:13 am, Peter Quain wrote: > good, i hadn't run that code. there should be no timing problems > because of the import routine - that is all going on before your > trial procedure starts, i gather, so been and gone by the time > important things are afoot. > > Can you post how you go about populating list from array, if you have > the time? ta > > At 07:08 PM 5/08/2009, you wrote: > > >The script works just fine Peter! > > >(only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word > >does the trick) > > >Thanks so much! > > >Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? > > >On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > > > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > > > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > > > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > > > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > > > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > > > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > > > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > > > Thanks again! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > > > stim sometime > > > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > > > string in each cell of your array > > > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > > > ... > > > > ' for 0 option base > > > > Dim YourArray() As String > > > > Dim s$ As String > > > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > > > Dim n As Integer > > > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > LineCount = -1 > > > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > > > Input #1, s$ > > > > Loop > > > > Close #1 > > > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > > > Next n > > > > Close #1 > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all! > > > > > >I got something.... > > > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > > > >Elaborated background info: > > > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > > > >time. > > > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > > > >instance: > > > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > > > >etc > > > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > > > >notation not working properly? > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ronitibon at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:47:11 2009 From: ronitibon at gmail.com (Roni Tibon) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:47:11 +0300 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B9992E@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, We installed everything on a different machine, and it worked perfectly! There is a Radix card installed on the original computer, and we suspect that this was the source of the problem. We will try to remove it tomorrow and see how it goes. Anyway - thanks a lot for all your help! Roni 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape > Hi Roni, > > Bummer. No, that would indeed suggest that rather than anything in E-Prime, > there seems to be something malfunctioning in the driver. Have you tried > running the experiment, with the SRBox, on a different computer? > > > > I tried to create an experiment like I suggested below and (though I have > no SRBox in my office) added the SRBox, BUT disabled the PST Serial Response > Box driver. This caused the exact same crash as your screenshot. Re-enabling > the PST Serial Response Box Driver in device manager caused my experiment to > run normally (though, of course, I couldn’t get very far without the actual > PST box). So, you might try uninstalling this particular driver and > reinstalling it. Perhaps there’s a little installer for it in the E-Prime > setup? > > > > The PST SRBox Driver is supposed to be where you show it, by the way. It > looks ugly in its unrecognised state, but it’s always been like that (if I > am correctly, even under win98). > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > *Michiel Spapé* > > *Research Fellow* > > *Perception & Action group* > > *University of Nottingham* > > *School of Psychology*** > > > > *From:* e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Roni Tibon > *Sent:* 05 August 2009 10:43 > *To:* e-prime at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: SRBox problem > > > > Hi Mich, > > Thank you for your reply! > > > > The box was added to the experimet preoperties. > > > > I followed what you suggested - running a simple experiment with just the > srbox, and got the same error message. > > The lights did not turn off when I started the experiment. Does it mean > that e-prime doesn't connect with the box? > > > > I'd love to hear from you, or any one else, if there's anything else I > should check or do, before trying to uninstall the program. > > > > Thanks! > > Roni > > 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape > > Hi Roni, > > Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment > Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), > rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off > and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn > off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change > nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text > display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. > > > > Other than that, I can’t imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device > installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could > try re-installing e-prime. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > *Michiel Spapé* > > *Research Fellow* > > *Perception & Action group* > > *University of Nottingham* > > *School of Psychology* > > > > *From:* e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Roni Tibon > *Sent:* 05 August 2009 09:43 > *To:* e-prime at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Fwd: SRBox problem > > > > Hi all, > > > > We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have > recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime > using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image > SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. > > > > The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB > adapter). > > > > The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. > We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the > machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port > (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. > > > Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can > see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications > Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? > > However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK > (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) > . > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks, > > Roni > > > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your > computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > permitted by UK legislation. > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 23:37:02 2009 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:37:02 -0700 Subject: random positions for letters Message-ID: . I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3….TL.) and I want to present target letter appears in one of six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other letters is random thanks --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Aug 7 08:54:28 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:54:28 +0100 Subject: random positions for letters In-Reply-To: <0e1cf9b5-3d8b-48db-92da-e4588c6f2a56@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashraf, I believe at least two members of this list have given you helpful suggestions about what you write below. The question, however, is what exactly is your problem about it? At the moment, it sounds a bit like you want someone else to programme the task for you, or that you hope someone else already has programmed such a task and is willing to share. If that is the case, please spell that out, because as it is, I might as well write a letter to the GetBigBucks googlegroup list saying 'I want a thousand bucks on my account tomorrow' - sure I do, but, so what? If you know the very basics of E-Prime, it can't be too difficult to programme a task in which you use a SlideDisplay, add 6 textdisplays to that, all in a circle, write [L1] in the first ... [L6] in the last, use a list with 6 added attributes (L1 to L6), and just fill one of them, for every line, with the specific letter in the specific position (say, 6 positions x 26 letters is 156 cases, or use a nested list with the letters so you merely have 6). And so on. However, where exactly are you stuck in all this? Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 07 August 2009 00:37 To: E-Prime Subject: random positions for letters . I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3....TL.) and I want to present target letter appears in one of six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other letters is random thanks This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From morgan.prust at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 17:39:06 2009 From: morgan.prust at gmail.com (Morgan) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:39:06 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? Message-ID: I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). Would any of you know how to do this? Many thanks, Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From morgan.prust at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 17:43:53 2009 From: morgan.prust at gmail.com (Morgan) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:43:53 -0700 Subject: Summation across blocks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all, I just posted this to the group: I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). Would any of you know how to do this? Based on this thread, I was wondering if any of you might have an idea about this question. Thanks so much! --Morgan Prust On Jun 22, 4:03 pm, KKat wrote: > Hi Anne-Wil and Victor, > I will try your suggestions and post a reply :) > Thank you! > Kathy > > On Jun 18, 6:52 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey kat! > > > Is this the same task still or a new adventure? > > I understand that the summation within each block is working. Right? > > > Then there are two options (I think): > > > A. right now you have a separate summationvariable used within each > > block, for instance sumblock1 to sumblock4 ? In that case you can > > insert a line like : c.setattrib "sumblock2", sumblock1  at the > > beginning of each new block... but it would make more sense to just > > have 1 single summation attribute to run trough all four blocks, > > right? > > > which brings me to option > > > B: you allready have one single summation attribute but it is set to 0 > > somewhere in the beginning of each block (probably due to copy/pasting > > of one existing block into 4 total blocks). In that case simply > > identify a line like either totalwin = 0 or c.setattrib "totalwin", 0 > > and remove it from blocks 2, 3 and 4. > > > Alternatively you can send me the file again and I'll see if i can > > find it. > > > Greets, > > > AW > > > On Jun 18, 2:06 am, KKat wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > I have designed a task with 4 blocks. I currently have a running total > > > of "money" won within each block, however, I would like to alter this > > > so that.... > > > > - the starting value for "total won" in Block2 is the total from the > > > last trial of Block1 > > > - the starting value for "total won" in Block3 is the total from the > > > last trial of Block2 > > > - the starting value for "total won" in Block4 is the total from the > > > last trial of Block3 > > > > Thank you! > > > Kathy --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 12:12:52 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 05:12:52 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: <5c3250df-9aa9-4da5-9cae-d2ae4c6b322e@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Morgan, Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab of the script window. After you've generated the script a script window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: ======================== dim correctcounter as integer dim errorcounter as integer dim rtcorrectcounter as integer dim rterrorcounter as integer dim omitedcounter as integer dim trialcounter dim finalpercentcorrect as integer dim finalpercenterror as integer dim finalpercentomitted as integer dim meancorrectrt as integer dim meanerrorrt as integer ========================== Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on the answer given. The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as errortrials. ========================== trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 Select case slidedisplay.resp case "" omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter case else if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then correctcounter = correctcounter +1 c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner end if if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter end if end select ======================= The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. Place something like this in an inline that is located on the sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all to the edat file. ============================= finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt ========================== Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following (place a text like this in a text-object). ========================== You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. ========================== Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will all work as intended but it should get you started. Good luck on it! liwenna On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > Would any of you know how to do this? > > Many thanks, > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From morgan.prust at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 17:20:37 2009 From: morgan.prust at gmail.com (Morgan J Prust) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:20:37 -0400 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Liwenna, Thanks so much for this thoughtful and extensive reply! I'll give it a shot and let you know. Thanks again, Morgan On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:12 AM, liwenna wrote: > > Hey Morgan, > > Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole > experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab > of the script window. After you've generated the script a script > window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of > that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now > declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > > ======================== > dim correctcounter as integer > dim errorcounter as integer > dim rtcorrectcounter as integer > dim rterrorcounter as integer > dim omitedcounter as integer > dim trialcounter > > dim finalpercentcorrect as integer > dim finalpercenterror as integer > dim finalpercentomitted as integer > dim meancorrectrt as integer > dim meanerrorrt as integer > ========================== > > Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to > insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on > the answer given. > The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the > counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later > on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is > no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is > updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case > else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct > and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters > and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames > makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is > alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- > construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as > errortrials. > > ========================== > trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 > > Select case slidedisplay.resp > > case "" > omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 > c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter > > case else > if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then > > correctcounter = correctcounter +1 > c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter > rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt > c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner > > end if > > if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then > > errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 > c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter > rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt > c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter > > end if > > end select > > ======================= > The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the > answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make > the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. > > Place something like this in an inline that is located on the > sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not > entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... > but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- > tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all > to the edat file. > > ============================= > finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter > finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter > finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter > meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter > meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect > c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted > c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt > c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt > > ========================== > > Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following > (place a text like this in a text-object). > > ========================== > You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've > answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% > incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the > trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered > correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've > answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. > ========================== > > Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done > more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to > actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will > all work as intended but it should get you started. > > Good luck on it! > > liwenna > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Morgan Prust > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pquain at une.edu.au Sun Aug 9 17:10:28 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:10:28 +1000 Subject: random positions for letters In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B99C76@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Ashraf You probably have this sorted out by now, but after writing about positioning your stimuli using the canvas object (and Mich rightly pointing out that this might be a difficult solution to implement) I thought more about how this could be done, and worked out the (...one of the :) algorithm. Anyway i've built a little VB utility that computes the x-y coordinates for different size native display resolution (640*480; 800*600 etc.) for the upper left corners of 6 squares (of side 'S') that centre on screen centred circumference at 60, 120, ... 360 degrees of circle with radius 'r'. Let me know if it would be of any use and will send it along. You can run it on any computer and copy down the coordinates which could then be entered into the x / y properties dialogue of each of your slide objects, along with width, to situate them in clockface at correct degree. But, if you change the display resolution of the monitor you are going to be testing on to the resolution e-prime will use (set in experiment properties, but default, i think, at 640*480) and run the utility on that you can then adjust the size of the stimulus display very quickly, while measuring the elements in terms of the calculations you have done for visual angle relative to viewing distance. Then you'll get the correct coordinates to proceed. ~Peter At 06:54 PM 7/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > I believe at least two members of this > list have given you helpful suggestions about > what you write below. The question, however, is > what exactly is your problem about it? At the > moment, it sounds a bit like you want someone > else to programme the task for you, or that you > hope someone else already has programmed such a > task and is willing to share. If that is the > case, please spell that out, because as it is, > I might as well write a letter to the > GetBigBucks googlegroup list saying 'I want a > thousand bucks on my account tomorrow' - sure I do, but, so what? > If you know the very basics of E-Prime, > it can't be too difficult to programme a task > in which you use a SlideDisplay, add 6 > textdisplays to that, all in a circle, write > [L1] in the first ... [L6] in the last, use a > list with 6 added attributes (L1 to L6), and > just fill one of them, for every line, with the > specific letter in the specific position (say, > 6 positions x 26 letters is 156 cases, or use a > nested list with the letters so you merely have > 6). And so on. However, where exactly are you stuck in all this? > >Best, >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 07 August 2009 00:37 >To: E-Prime >Subject: random positions for letters > > > >. I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3....TL.) and I want >to present target letter appears in one of >six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other >letters is random >thanks > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 20:37:51 2009 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:37:51 -0700 Subject: random positions for letters In-Reply-To: <200908091710.n79HAhdZ015355@mail7.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Hi peter tbank you very much for your reply,my research about perceptual load,i would like to send me your VB utility for scientific purposes. ashraf On Aug 9, 8:10 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > Hi Ashraf > > You probably have this sorted out by now, but > after writing about positioning your stimuli > using the canvas object (and Mich rightly > pointing out that this might be a difficult > solution to implement) I thought more about how > this could be done, and worked out the (...one > of the :) algorithm. Anyway i've built a little > VB utility that computes the x-y coordinates for > different size native display resolution > (640*480; 800*600 etc.) for the upper left > corners of 6 squares (of side 'S') that centre on > screen centred circumference at 60, 120, ... 360 > degrees of circle with radius 'r'. > > Let me know if it would be of any use and will send it along. > > You can run it on any computer and copy down the > coordinates which could then be entered into the > x / y properties dialogue of each of your slide > objects, along with width, to situate them in > clockface at correct degree. But, if you change > the display resolution of the monitor you are > going to be testing on to the resolution e-prime > will use (set in experiment properties, but > default, i think, at 640*480) and run the utility > on that you can then adjust the size of the > stimulus display very quickly, while measuring > the elements in terms of the calculations you > have done for visual angle relative to viewing > distance. Then you'll get the correct coordinates to proceed. > > ~Peter > > At 06:54 PM 7/08/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Ashraf, > > I believe at least two members of this > > list have given you helpful suggestions about > > what you write below. The question, however, is > > what exactly is your problem about it? At the > > moment, it sounds a bit like you want someone > > else to programme the task for you, or that you > > hope someone else already has programmed such a > > task and is willing to share. If that is the > > case, please spell that out, because as it is, > > I might as well write a letter to the > > GetBigBucks googlegroup list saying 'I want a > > thousand bucks on my account tomorrow' - sure I do, but, so what? > > If you know the very basics of E-Prime, > > it can't be too difficult to programme a task > > in which you use a SlideDisplay, add 6 > > textdisplays to that, all in a circle, write > > [L1] in the first ... [L6] in the last, use a > > list with 6 added attributes (L1 to L6), and > > just fill one of them, for every line, with the > > specific letter in the specific position (say, > > 6 positions x 26 letters is 156 cases, or use a > > nested list with the letters so you merely have > > 6). And so on. However, where exactly are you stuck in all this? > > >Best, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > >Sent: 07 August 2009 00:37 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: random positions for letters > > >. I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3....TL.) and I want > >to present target letter appears in one of > >six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other > >letters is random > >thanks > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 21:33:45 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:33:45 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Morgan, I spotted at least 1 typo allready... dim omitedcounter as integer -> dim omitTedcounter as integer there's bound to be more of those... >.> On Aug 9, 7:20 pm, Morgan J Prust wrote: > Liwenna, > > Thanks so much for this thoughtful and extensive reply! I'll give it a shot > and let you know. > > Thanks again, > > Morgan > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:12 AM, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Morgan, > > > Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole > > experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab > > of the script window. After you've generated the script a script > > window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of > > that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now > > declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > > > ======================== > > dim correctcounter as integer > > dim errorcounter as integer > > dim rtcorrectcounter as integer > > dim rterrorcounter as integer > > dim omitedcounter as integer > > dim trialcounter > > > dim finalpercentcorrect as integer > > dim finalpercenterror as integer > > dim finalpercentomitted as integer > > dim meancorrectrt as integer > > dim meanerrorrt as integer > > ========================== > > > Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to > > insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on > > the answer given. > > The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the > > counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later > > on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is > > no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is > > updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case > > else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct > > and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters > > and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames > > makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is > > alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- > > construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as > > errortrials. > > > ========================== > > trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 > > > Select case slidedisplay.resp > > > case "" > > omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 > > c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter > > > case else > > if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then > > > correctcounter = correctcounter +1 > > c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter > > rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner > > > end if > > > if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then > > > errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 > > c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter > > rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter > > > end if > > > end select > > > ======================= > > The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the > > answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make > > the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. > > > Place something like this in an inline that is located on the > > sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not > > entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... > > but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- > > tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all > > to the edat file. > > > ============================= > > finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter > > finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter > > finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter > > meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter > > meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted > > c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt > > c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt > > > ========================== > > > Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following > > (place a text like this in a text-object). > > > ========================== > > You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've > > answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% > > incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the > > trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered > > correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've > > answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. > > ========================== > > > Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done > > more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to > > actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will > > all work as intended but it should get you started. > > > Good luck on it! > > > liwenna > > > On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 12:32:34 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:32:34 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: After testing in e-prime I have a number of additions to make. I sent a corrected .es2 file to Morgan but for everyone else who (in the future) references this thread I post the changes here too: There are quite a number of typo's in the variable names I wrote... I didn't keep a list of them, but anyone trying this script will encounter them and I excuse for that in advance.. ;) Then: The inline that calculates the final stats also has a number of lines that are supposed to write these stats to the edat file... but it turns out that e-prime won't do that if there is no proc and/or list connected to the inline. The solution is simple: add a (one level, no additional attributes) feedbacklist at the end of the experiment, connected to a feedbackproc and on this procedure place the feedbackslide and the inline that does the calculations. For convenience I added another z to these attributenames to keep things organised more or less neatly in your edatfile. The final calculations will be shown in the last level of the edatfile. Additionally the c.setattrib "zztrialcounter", trialcounter should also be added to this last inline. Lastly I forgot to add 'x 100' to the calculations of the % trials correct, incorrect and omitted... New second inline is as follows: ================= finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter * 100 finalpercenterror = errorcounter / trialcounter * 100 finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter * 100 meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter c.setattrib "zztrialcounter", trialcounter c.setattrib "zzfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect c.setattrib "zzfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror c.setattrib "zzfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted c.setattrib "zzmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt c.setattrib "zzmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt =================== with of course the feedbacktext also being adjusted to: =================== You've finished [zztrialcounter] trials and of these trials you've answered [zzfinalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [zzfinalpercenterror]% incorrectly and you did not answer [zzfinalpercentomitted]% of the trials. The average reactiontime on the trials you've answered correctly was [zzmeancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [zzmeanerrorrt] milliseconds. ================== Regards, Anne-Wil On Aug 9, 11:33 pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey Morgan, > > I spotted at least 1 typo allready... > dim omitedcounter as integer -> dim omitTedcounter as integer > > there's bound to be more of those... >.> > > On Aug 9, 7:20 pm, Morgan J Prust wrote: > > > Liwenna, > > > Thanks so much for this thoughtful and extensive reply! I'll give it a shot > > and let you know. > > > Thanks again, > > > Morgan > > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:12 AM, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey Morgan, > > > > Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole > > > experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab > > > of the script window. After you've generated the script a script > > > window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of > > > that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now > > > declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > > > > ======================== > > > dim correctcounter as integer > > > dim errorcounter as integer > > > dim rtcorrectcounter as integer > > > dim rterrorcounter as integer > > > dim omitedcounter as integer > > > dim trialcounter > > > > dim finalpercentcorrect as integer > > > dim finalpercenterror as integer > > > dim finalpercentomitted as integer > > > dim meancorrectrt as integer > > > dim meanerrorrt as integer > > > ========================== > > > > Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to > > > insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on > > > the answer given. > > > The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the > > > counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later > > > on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is > > > no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is > > > updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case > > > else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct > > > and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters > > > and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames > > > makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is > > > alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- > > > construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as > > > errortrials. > > > > ========================== > > > trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 > > > > Select case slidedisplay.resp > > > > case "" > > > omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 > > > c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter > > > > case else > > > if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then > > > > correctcounter = correctcounter +1 > > > c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter > > > rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > > c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner > > > > end if > > > > if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then > > > > errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 > > > c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter > > > rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > > c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter > > > > end if > > > > end select > > > > ======================= > > > The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the > > > answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make > > > the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. > > > > Place something like this in an inline that is located on the > > > sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not > > > entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... > > > but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- > > > tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all > > > to the edat file. > > > > ============================= > > > finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter > > > finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter > > > finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter > > > meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter > > > meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter > > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted > > > c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt > > > c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt > > > > ========================== > > > > Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following > > > (place a text like this in a text-object). > > > > ========================== > > > You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've > > > answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% > > > incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the > > > trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered > > > correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've > > > answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. > > > ========================== > > > > Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done > > > more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to > > > actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will > > > all work as intended but it should get you started. > > > > Good luck on it! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From jgfetter at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 14:55:19 2009 From: jgfetter at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:19 -0700 Subject: reading data from biopac Message-ID: Hi all, I am a new member to this group and this is my first post. I am a student at Saginaw Valley and recently started a job in the psychology department as a computer lab tech. My boss wants me to start playing around with biopac and to design a program in e-prime that will record the readings from the biopac system in addition to all the usual e- prime data logging. I have the computer running e-prime connected to the biopac hardware via a standard 25 pin d-sub cable. However, no matter what I do, I cannot get the e-prime program to record any data. I used the readport function and tried several ports in case I had mistakenly used the wrong base address. However, the data was always the same for each trial. One base address gave me all readouts of 120, another all 255, etc... None of them actually transmitted any useful data. I looked through the archives of old posts in this group and found a similar case that provided some suggestions. The problem is that some of these suggestions involved changing bios settings for the port and before I go that route (Jumping through hoops to get IT to allow us to access the system), I wanted to know if the problem was resolved using that method or if not, what might be a better option? I appreciate any help anyone has to offer, Joe --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From umaprabhu at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 15:55:33 2009 From: umaprabhu at gmail.com (Puma) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:55:33 -0700 Subject: Creating Push Buttons in Eprime like in VB Message-ID: Hi All, I need to design an experiment in Eprime, where I need to create VB like Push Buttons . Is it possible to create Push buttons in Eprime ? If yes , is there any document or sample code , then please share with me. Any pointers will be helpful. Thanks Puma --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 20:00:23 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:00:23 -0700 Subject: Creating Push Buttons in Eprime like in VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Puma! E-prime doesn't provide push buttons in the way VB does... (at least, to the best of my knowledge that it..... although e-basic and visual basic seem to be related...) There are some options, though. Firstly: e-prime is able to display 'windows styled boxes' that pose a question or prompt for an answer and have pushbuttons at the bottem (the 'ok' 'cancel' type) which you can fully customize to show your desired text, buttontexts etc. You should find info on these in the e- basic help section found in e-prime, and/or in the user guide. I digged up an screenshot from a task I did a few years ago and used only these types of boxes: http://images.redial.net/screenshot%20awaim%20.png As you can see it's possible to fully customize the box, from the text in the upper bar (AWAIM 1.2 in this case) to the question, to the options on the pushbuttons. The colourtheme (silverish) was the default theme set on the specific computer where this shot was taken. Alternatively: (if you don't want to be restricted to the limited space these boxes offer without look strange) you could work out a way to draw them on the canvas. Two useful example scripts would be this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? Mode=View&SampleID=39) which shows two ways on how to collect response based on the location of a mouseclick on the canvas. I suggest that you use the canvas method (not the dohittest) and perhaps combine that with info from this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/ samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=9) which (supposedly, I never saw it in action) shows you more about the option's you have with drawing on the canvas. It will take some fiddling around but if you're a littelbit experienced with how coding works you should be able to make it so that it looks and functions like a pushbutton and even shows in the desired location too.... ;) I think it should be something like a rectangle within a rectangle that colours darker and/or shows a dotted- line square when selected. Both options will be rather labout intensive though... so let's hope that someone else has even better suggestions.... Good luck, liwenna On Aug 11, 5:55 pm, Puma wrote: > Hi All, > > I need to design an experiment in Eprime, where I need to create VB > like Push Buttons . Is it possible to create Push buttons in Eprime ? > If yes , is there any document or sample code , then please share with > me. > Any pointers will be helpful. > > Thanks > Puma --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 20:03:46 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:03:46 -0700 Subject: Creating Push Buttons in Eprime like in VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Puma! E-prime doesn't provide push buttons in the way VB does... (at least, to the best of my knowledge that it..... although e-basic and visual basic seem to be related...) There are some options, though. Firstly: e-prime is able to display 'windows styled boxes' that pose a question or prompt for an answer and have pushbuttons at the bottem (the 'ok' 'cancel' type) which you can fully customize to show your desired text, buttontexts etc. You should find info on these in the e- basic help section found in e-prime, and/or in the user guide. I digged up an screenshot from a task I did a few years ago and used only these types of boxes: http://images.redial.net/screenshot%20awaim%20.png As you can see it's possible to fully customize the box, from the text in the upper bar (Awaim v1.2 in this case) to the question, up to the options on the pushbuttons. The colour theme (silverish) was the default theme set on the specific computer where this shot was taken. Alternatively: (if you don't want to be restricted to the limited space these boxes offer without looking strange) you could work out a way to draw them on the canvas. Two useful example scripts would be this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? Mode=View&SampleID=39) which shows two ways on how to collect response based on the location of a mouseclick on the canvas. I suggest that you use the canvas method (not the dohittest) and perhaps combine that with info from this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/ samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=9) which (supposedly, I never saw it in action) shows you more about the option's you have with drawing on the canvas. It will take some fiddling around but if you're a little bit experienced with how coding works you should be able to make it so that it looks and functions like a pushbutton and even shows in the desired location too.... ;) I think it should be something like a rectangle within a rectangle that colours darker and/or shows a dotted- line square when selected. Both options will be rather labour intensive though... so let's hope that someone else has even better suggestions.... Good luck, liwenna On Aug 11, 5:55 pm, Puma wrote: > Hi All, > > I need to design an experiment in Eprime, where I need to create VB > like Push Buttons . Is it possible to create Push buttons in Eprime ? > If yes , is there any document or sample code , then please share with > me. > Any pointers will be helpful. > > Thanks > Puma --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ekoren2 at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 08:55:27 2009 From: ekoren2 at gmail.com (Eli Koren) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:55:27 +0300 Subject: repeat sound Message-ID: Hi there! I want to repeat sound file if the user press "space" and if the user press "UP" key then next trial and if he press "Down" key then the previous trial. Thanks Eli --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.b.mccoy at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:19:08 2009 From: david.b.mccoy at gmail.com (David McCoy) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:19:08 -0700 Subject: Slide Number Message-ID: Hey Everyone, I am developing a psychological study that simply displays a series of pictures of famous people and famous places. I would like (on each slide) for there to be a number indicated what the slide number is. For example, picture one will have the number one, slide 2 with the number 2, etc. Is there a way of doing this? Any help would be wonderful. Thanks! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:16:43 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:16:43 -0700 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <946e2dec-4a4a-4752-8981-12390240d9e7@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hello David, I think you need to give us a bit more info. Does every picture have it's own slide-object? Or is there one slideobject that has a different image in it for every consecutive 'trial'? And are the images randomized or do they appear in a fixed order? Best regards, liwenna On Aug 12, 5:19 pm, David McCoy wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > I am developing a psychological study that simply displays a series of > pictures of famous people and famous places. I would like (on each > slide) for there to be a number indicated what the slide number is. > For example, picture one will have the number one, slide 2 with the > number 2, etc. Is there a way of doing this? Any help would be > wonderful. Thanks! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From david.b.mccoy at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:30:13 2009 From: david.b.mccoy at gmail.com (David McCoy) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:30:13 -0400 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <6814dba7-2794-4ecd-8c47-40fa65837809@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, I actually just figured it out. It was a pretty simple solution I was just not thinking enough. Thanks for the help though! Have a good day. David B. McCoy Research Assistant - Olson Lab Department of Psychology Temple University - College of Liberal Arts dmccoy at temple.edu 215-204-1708 Center for Cognitive Neuroscience Department of Psychology University of Pennsylvania dmccoy at psych.upenn.edu --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 18:37:25 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:37:25 -0700 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <1d21eee20908120930j19839315qe8bc2b035bc262dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Glad to hear! A good day to you too! On Aug 12, 6:30 pm, David McCoy wrote: > Hi Liwenna, > > I actually just figured it out. It was a pretty simple solution I was just > not thinking enough. Thanks for the help though! Have a good day. > David B. McCoy > Research Assistant - Olson Lab > Department of Psychology > Temple University - College of Liberal Arts > dmc... at temple.edu > 215-204-1708 > > Center for Cognitive Neuroscience > Department of Psychology > University of Pennsylvania > dmc... at psych.upenn.edu --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cadeni01 at louisville.edu Thu Aug 13 18:37:40 2009 From: cadeni01 at louisville.edu (cdenicola) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:37:40 -0700 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime Message-ID: Hi all, I'm currently trying to program a habituation experiment in E-Prime. I need it to display a stimulus when Enter is pressed, start recording looking time when 5 is pressed, and stop recording looking time when 5 is released, then one second later removing the stimulus. I also need to program it to calculate a sliding window to detect when they've habituated, but that's for another time. Here's some of the script: dim doAdd as boolean lookAwayTime = -1 lookAwayStart = -1 trialTimer = MovieDisplay1.FirstFrameTime 'loop to measure looking time via keyboard do set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then if doAdd = false then lookStart = theResponseData.RTTime lookAwayTime = 0 Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 pressed " & theResponseData.RTTime doADD = true end if if theResponseData = "{-5}" then if doAdd = true then lookAwayStart= theResponseData.RTTime lookTime = theResponseData.RTTime-lookStart habitArray(trialCount).AddObservation lookTime Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 Released " & theResponseData.RTTime Display.Canvas.text 500, 0, "looking time: " & habitArray (trialCount).total doAdd = false end if end select loop I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out with >>>> Also, am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? Thanks Chris --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From neurodrum at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 18:52:27 2009 From: neurodrum at gmail.com (Andrew Hill) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:52:27 -0700 Subject: CPT? Message-ID: hi folks, i've been looking for a while, but haven't been able to find any existing examples available for standard CPT tests like the TOVA, or IVA, AB-X, etc. does anyone have one of these written in eprime that they would be willing to share? my object is to find something that matches (in design) one of the in- use CPTs that has already been validated by lots of literature, and are in clinical use, as opposed to creating my own from scratch that might have different parameters, etc. thanks, andrew --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Fri Aug 14 03:54:05 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:54:05 +1000 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime In-Reply-To: <41244fe3-947e-417b-b2a0-f06fc4d39f1d@n11g2000yqb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris Not sure about this, and no e-prime to check it out on - so all suggestions dubious, and code suggestions are just that. Also, my understanding of e-prime object model is very muddy, so description below shouldn't be trusted too much. I think KeyBoard.History.Count is the instances of TYPES of response - that is, the number of ResponseData objects in the collection of all keyboard responsedata objects (e.g., RESP, RT, CRESP etc) - not a 'value' of a response (such as a key press of "5"). Values are held by the object. They are not 'the' object. From e-basic help: -------------------------------------- Dim nSpaceBarEntries As Long Dim nIndex As Long Dim theResponseData As ResponseData For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count 'retrieve a single ResponseData object from the collection 'of ResponseData objects stored in the InputHistoryManager Set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) If Not theResponseData Is Nothing Then If theResponseData.RESP = "{SPACE}" Then nSpaceBarEntries = nSpaceBarEntries + 1 End If End If -------------------------------- So, Keyboard.History.Count isn't something to *modify* with an expression (such as "set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1))... it is something, a collection of Keyboard objects (that itself is a member of the larger collection of InputMasks) to loop through the sub-objects of (.RT, .RESP etc), and get the values held by that sub-object. .Count is the number of sub-objects, and they each have a numeric index in the collection, as well as their name (e.g., .RT). So it is a property to access, not to set. Access allows you to then grab the value held by any particular sub-object. From e-basic help: ----------------------------- 'the StimDisplay object enables keyboard and mouse responses; ' keyboard is the first InputMask listed (see Duration/Input tab), ' so the keyboard response is stored as the first item in the ' InputMasks collection; ' mouse is the second InputMask listed, so the mouse response is the ' second item in the InputMasks collection ------------------------------------------------------------------- So your code : set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then .. is trying to modify the collection count i'd say, and then running a malformed conditional (no value for the ResponseData, compared to a string) and doesn't like it. The operator error could be where you have the "=" e-prime is looking for a dot operator ???? anyway ... Something like this might be on the right track. Dim nIndex As Integer For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) if theResponseData.RESP = {5} then ...your code ... if theResponseData.RESP = {-5} then if doAdd = true then ... etc... best Peter At 04:37 AM 14/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I'm currently trying to program a habituation experiment in E-Prime. I >need it to display a stimulus when Enter is pressed, start recording >looking time when 5 is pressed, and stop recording looking time when 5 >is released, then one second later removing the stimulus. I also need >to program it to calculate a sliding window to detect when they've >habituated, but that's for another time. Here's some of the script: > >dim doAdd as boolean >lookAwayTime = -1 >lookAwayStart = -1 >trialTimer = MovieDisplay1.FirstFrameTime > >'loop to measure looking time via keyboard > >do > set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) > >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then > if doAdd = false then > lookStart = theResponseData.RTTime > lookAwayTime = 0 > Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 > pressed " & theResponseData.RTTime > doADD = true > end if > if theResponseData = "{-5}" then > if doAdd = true then > lookAwayStart= theResponseData.RTTime > lookTime = theResponseData.RTTime-lookStart > >habitArray(trialCount).AddObservation lookTime > Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 > Released " & theResponseData.RTTime > Display.Canvas.text 500, 0, > "looking time: " & habitArray >(trialCount).total > doAdd = false > end if > end select >loop > >I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out >with >>>> >Also, am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? > >Thanks >Chris > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pquain at une.edu.au Fri Aug 14 04:49:42 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:49:42 +1000 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime In-Reply-To: <200908140354.n7E3sXrA000838@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: sorry, don't want to misinform: I said that "Keyboard.History.Count isn't something to *modify* with an expression (such as "set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1))..." - it certainly is! Looping through that index is how you get hold of the different attributes that are in the collection. It is just the conditional falling over that is the problem. ~Peter At 01:54 PM 14/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Chris > >Not sure about this, and no e-prime to check it out on - so all >suggestions dubious, and code suggestions are just that. Also, my >understanding of e-prime object model is very muddy, so description >below shouldn't be trusted too much. > >I think KeyBoard.History.Count is the instances of TYPES of response >- that is, the number of >ResponseData objects in the collection of all keyboard responsedata >objects (e.g., RESP, RT, CRESP etc) - >not a 'value' of a response (such as a key press of "5"). Values are >held by the object. They are not 'the' object. > > From e-basic help: >-------------------------------------- > >Dim nSpaceBarEntries As Long >Dim nIndex As Long >Dim theResponseData As ResponseData >For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count > 'retrieve a single ResponseData object from the collection > 'of ResponseData objects stored in the InputHistoryManager >Set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) > If Not theResponseData Is Nothing Then > If theResponseData.RESP = "{SPACE}" Then > nSpaceBarEntries = nSpaceBarEntries + 1 > End If > End If >-------------------------------- > >So, Keyboard.History.Count isn't something to *modify* with an >expression (such as "set theResponseData = >Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1))... it is something, a >collection of Keyboard objects (that itself is a member of the >larger collection of InputMasks) to loop through the sub-objects of >(.RT, .RESP etc), and get the values held by that sub-object. .Count >is the number of sub-objects, and they each have a numeric index in >the collection, as well as their name (e.g., .RT). So it is a >property to access, not to set. Access allows you to then grab the >value held by any particular sub-object. > > From e-basic help: >----------------------------- >'the StimDisplay object enables keyboard and mouse responses; >' keyboard is the first InputMask listed (see Duration/Input tab), >' so the keyboard response is stored as the first item in the >' InputMasks collection; >' mouse is the second InputMask listed, so the mouse response is the >' second item in the InputMasks collection >------------------------------------------------------------------- > >So your code : >set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) > >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then > >.. is trying to modify the collection count i'd say, and then >running a malformed conditional (no value for the ResponseData, >compared to a string) and doesn't like it. The operator error could >be where you have the "=" e-prime is looking for a dot operator ???? anyway ... > >Something like this might be on the right track. > >Dim nIndex As Integer >For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count >set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) >if theResponseData.RESP = {5} then >...your code ... >if theResponseData.RESP = {-5} then > if doAdd = true then >... etc... > >best >Peter > > > >At 04:37 AM 14/08/2009, you wrote: > >>Hi all, >> >>I'm currently trying to program a habituation experiment in E-Prime. I >>need it to display a stimulus when Enter is pressed, start recording >>looking time when 5 is pressed, and stop recording looking time when 5 >>is released, then one second later removing the stimulus. I also need >>to program it to calculate a sliding window to detect when they've >>habituated, but that's for another time. Here's some of the script: >> >>dim doAdd as boolean >>lookAwayTime = -1 >>lookAwayStart = -1 >>trialTimer = MovieDisplay1.FirstFrameTime >> >>'loop to measure looking time via keyboard >> >>do >> set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) >> >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then >> if doAdd = false then >> lookStart = theResponseData.RTTime >> lookAwayTime = 0 >> Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 >> pressed " & theResponseData.RTTime >> doADD = true >> end if >> if theResponseData = "{-5}" then >> if doAdd = true then >> lookAwayStart= theResponseData.RTTime >> lookTime = theResponseData.RTTime-lookStart >> >>habitArray(trialCount).AddObservation lookTime >> Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 >> Released " & theResponseData.RTTime >> Display.Canvas.text 500, 0, >> "looking time: " & habitArray >>(trialCount).total >> doAdd = false >> end if >> end select >>loop >> >>I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out >>with >>>> >>Also, am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? >> >>Thanks >>Chris >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kim.janssens1 at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 12:20:26 2009 From: kim.janssens1 at gmail.com (kimio) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:20:26 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming Message-ID: Hello group, I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? All help is welcome... thanks, Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 00:51:01 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:51:01 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Kim, Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the experiment you need help with. In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough refresh rate. I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the way. Good luck with it! liwenna On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > Hello group, > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > All help is welcome... > > thanks, > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From kim.janssens1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 06:25:54 2009 From: kim.janssens1 at gmail.com (Kim Janssens) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:25:54 +0200 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <5a3d10f7-b186-413f-8e24-ac3e8a9fcf3d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hello liwenna, Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will post my question again. greetz, Kim ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed for subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. 2009/8/15 liwenna > > Hello Kim, > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > experiment you need help with. > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > refresh rate. > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the > way. > > Good luck with it! > > liwenna > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > Hello group, > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > > All help is welcome... > > > > thanks, > > Kim > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 08:19:02 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:19:02 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <71491e900908162325l3913e943j7c7e9b56e19f2178@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey, I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Prime-program. It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal presentation. Greetz, liwenna On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > Hello liwenna, > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will post > my question again. > > greetz, > Kim > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed for > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > experiment you need help with. > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > refresh rate. > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the > > way. > > > Good luck with it! > > > liwenna > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > Hello group, > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > > > All help is welcome... > > > > thanks, > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 17 20:03:19 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:03:19 -0400 Subject: Sound to signal a key press In-Reply-To: <58b9b5a5-d195-4987-b5ff-730e2d788378@c2g2000yqi.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: River, (I have been off on holiday for a few weeks, just getting back into the swing of things...) Hmm, I just posted a response to a problem very much like this in the PST Forum (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3323-8-1.aspx ). In short, yes, it is possible to do what you wish, though not simple (as I hinted in my earlier reply). It will require the use of Extended Input, plus some script, Clock.Read, and possibly .IsPending(), although .RT, .RTTime, or .RESP should work fine in your case. So, suppose you want your stimulus image to remain for 2500 ms regardless of when the subject responds. You would set its Duration to 0 and its Time Limit to 2500. You would then follow that with inline script, and the script would take care of filling in the 2500 ms as well as detecting any response and then sounding a beep. You can probably fill in the details from there. For more info, please look at Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime (for the Extended Input example), the Clock.Read and InputMask.IsPending topics in the online E-Basic Help, and the "Process Responses Template" and "Clear Stimulus-Leave More Time for Response" samples downloadable from PST. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 7/24/2009 07:01 AM Friday, you wrote: >Firstly, thankyou to Rinus and David for your speedy replies! I have >be unable to look at your suggestions until now however I have managed >to get an InLine version to work whereby an image is displayed, a >keypress response is made and then, once the image is no longer >displayed (it is displayed for a set duration regardless of responses >made by the participant) the beep will sound to inform the participant >that a response was made. >Although this is on the right track I was hoping to be able to cause a >beep to be emitted at the same time as a response key is pressed, >therefore allowing you to press the key again (while the stimulus is >still being displayed) if the beep didn't sound to signal that a >response had been recorded. > >Do either of you know if this might be possible? I can't seem to find >a way to put the sound and the image together in a way that the sound >is contingent on a response to the image being made as well as >allowing the sound to occur AS the response is being made. > >Thanks again in advance, > >River > > > >On Jun 29, 7:23 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Are these self-paced trials, with no time limit? If so, you could > > just put a SoundOut with a beep.wav after whatever object you use to > > present your stimulus & get response, e.g., > > > > - TrialProc > > - StimSlide > > - BeepSound > > > > If trials are self-paced but with a time limit, then you could use an > > If-Then either to make a beep in script as Rinus sugessts (although > > the E-Basic beep command does not work on some computers), or with a > > label to skip past the BeepSound, e.g. > > > > - TrialProc > > - StimSlide > > - CheckResponseScript > > (If StimSlide.RT = 0 Then goto NoResponseLabel) > > - BeepSound > > - NoResponseLabel > > > > If trials are not self-paced then things get considerably trickier. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 6/27/2009 10:23 AM Saturday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >I presume the length is not infinite (otherwise the stimulus will not > > >go away untill they press).. > > >Might it be helpful just to do a simple beep with inline? Something in > > >the line of: > > > > >if TextDisplay1.RESP <> "" then beep > > > > >(TextDisplay or whatever you're using that is). > > > > >Kind regards, > > > > >Rinus > > > > >On Jun 26, 4:57 pm, River wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > This seems like a potentially simple thing to do but I can't figure it > > > > out-is it possible to make the computer or SR box emit a beep when a > > > > response key is pressed? > > > > Participants will be viewing stimuli on a computer screen and > > > > responding to it by pressing one of two buttons on the SR box (they > > > > will press a key on every trial). I'm looking at reaction times so I > > > > don't want them to have to look down to make sure they have made a > > > > response (i.e. light flashes by the keys aren't ideal) however its > > > > been mentioned that a noise to confirm a response has been recorded > > > > would be useful.... > > > > > > Does anyone know if this is possible or should I just ask them to > > > > press the keys down firmly!? I'm currently running version 1 of > > > > Eprime. > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > River --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 17 20:27:40 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:27:40 -0400 Subject: Randomizing multiple lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I haven't seen any responses to this. Did you ever get this sorted out? Did you do the Nested Lists example in Appedix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 7/27/2009 03:11 PM Monday, you wrote: >Hi! >I'm relatively new at using E-Prime, so, this may be a simple >question. > >We are developing a program whereby two Blocks of trials needs to >randomly select items from 2 different lists. There are 3 lists in >total. This may help: > >List A >List B >List C > >Block 1: randomly select list items from List A and List B > >Block 2: randomly select list items from List B and List C (without >repeating any items that were chosen from list B in Block 1). > >I understand general randomization etc, but don't know where to start >in terms of adding in a list. >Suggestions? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From godotworkaround at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 13:42:58 2009 From: godotworkaround at googlemail.com (vinz) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:42:58 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <7ddb5874-56e3-4800-a003-356f4de57e43@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hello group, I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan station. Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following slide (presented for about 500ms). For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like this: 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 instead of: 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: WritePort &H378,1 WritePort &H378,0 WritePort &H378,3 WritePort &H378,0 WritePort &H378,7 WritePort &H378,0 If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to give, I would greatly appreciate. Thank you, vinz. On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > Hey, > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it:http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > presentation. > > Greetz, > > liwenna > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > Hello liwenna, > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will post > > my question again. > > > greetz, > > Kim > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed for > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > experiment you need help with. > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > refresh rate. > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the > > > way. > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > Hello group, > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > thanks, > > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 14:25:45 2009 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:25:45 -0400 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the "WritePort &H378, 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. ben On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz wrote: > > Hello group, > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > station. > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > this: > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > instead of: > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > WritePort &H378,1 > WritePort &H378,0 > > WritePort &H378,3 > WritePort &H378,0 > > WritePort &H378,7 > WritePort &H378,0 > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > Thank you, > vinz. > > > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > presentation. > > > > Greetz, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will > post > > > my question again. > > > > > greetz, > > > Kim > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed > for > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you > use > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along > the > > > > way. > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show > the > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a > word > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > this? > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > Kim > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:32:50 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:32:50 -0400 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Morgan, By now you no doubt have this sorted out, but for the record I just want to mention that you might be able to use global Summation Objects instead of a bunch of separate variables to keep track of all your statistics for a later summary. Please see the Summation Object topic in the online E-Basic Help. You would still need script similar to what liwenna has shown in order to update the Summation Objects and to manage the final summary slide. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/8/2009 08:12 AM Saturday, liwenna wrote: >Hey Morgan, > >Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole >experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab >of the script window. After you've generated the script a script >window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of >that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now >declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > >======================== >dim correctcounter as integer >dim errorcounter as integer >dim rtcorrectcounter as integer >dim rterrorcounter as integer >dim omitedcounter as integer >dim trialcounter > >dim finalpercentcorrect as integer >dim finalpercenterror as integer >dim finalpercentomitted as integer >dim meancorrectrt as integer >dim meanerrorrt as integer >========================== >Good luck on it! > >liwenna > > > >On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From david.b.mccoy at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 14:55:04 2009 From: david.b.mccoy at gmail.com (David McCoy) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:55:04 -0700 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <4a8abfc9.1808c00a.60ae.4dafSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: The solution: This is really simple. I just needed a number on each slide of a picture that way I could keep track of what picture/object was up on each slide during a recall session with a subject. So, since my trials were sequential all I did was make another attribute called number, had a list of numbers from 1-whatever, then in the slide presentation just had a text blurp that called in that attribute [numbers]. That way, going through each of the pictures there would be a corresponding number. I thought this was the easiest way. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:58:44 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:58:44 -0400 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime In-Reply-To: <41244fe3-947e-417b-b2a0-f06fc4d39f1d@n11g2000yqb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Chris, At 8/13/2009 02:37 PM Thursday, you wrote: > set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) > >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then >I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out >with >>>> Just offhand, theResponseData is an object, it does not itself have a value and so it makes no sense to compare it to another value such as "5", hence the "operator mismatch error". You have to compare "5" to some appropriate property of your theResponseData object, e.g., If theResponseData.RESP = "5" Then Please see the InputDevice.History topic in the online E-Basic Help, also any basic introductory text in object-oriented programming. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:48:12 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:48:12 -0400 Subject: repeat sound In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eli, The problem of returning to a previous trial has been addressed before, and as far as I know there is no good way in E-Prime to return to a previous trial. For that you might want to try Empirisoft's MediaLab, as long as you do not need millisecond accuracy. Not too hard to repeat the sound within a trial or to move to the next trial after a key press, but no sense answering those questions if you'll just get stuck on the problem of returning to a previous trial. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/12/2009 04:55 AM Wednesday, you wrote: >Hi there! >I want to repeat sound file if the user press "space" and if the >user press "UP" key >then next trial and if he press "Down" key then the previous trial. > >Thanks >Eli --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:50:46 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:50:46 -0400 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <1d21eee20908120930j19839315qe8bc2b035bc262dc@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: David, OK, for the benefit of everyone please do tell us your solution! Thanks, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/12/2009 12:30 PM Wednesday, you wrote: >Hi Liwenna, > >I actually just figured it out. It was a pretty simple solution I >was just not thinking enough. Thanks for the help though! Have a good day. >David B. McCoy >Research Assistant - Olson Lab >Department of Psychology >Temple University - College of Liberal Arts >dmccoy at temple.edu >215-204-1708 > > >Center for Cognitive Neuroscience >Department of Psychology >University of Pennsylvania >dmccoy at psych.upenn.edu --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From godotworkaround at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 17:31:14 2009 From: godotworkaround at googlemail.com (vinz) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:31:14 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <3345e4a50908180725h404ce07fr2dd26d980ae5e43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you Ben, I will try it out tomorrow, and then let you know. Thank you again. vinz. On Aug 18, 3:25 pm, ben robinson wrote: > maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the "WritePort &H378, > 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. > ben > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz wrote: > > > > > Hello group, > > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > > station. > > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > > this: > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > > instead of: > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > > WritePort &H378,1 > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > WritePort &H378,3 > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > WritePort &H378,7 > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > > Thank you, > > vinz. > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > >http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > > presentation. > > > > Greetz, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will > > post > > > > my question again. > > > > > greetz, > > > > Kim > > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed > > for > > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you > > use > > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along > > the > > > > > way. > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show > > the > > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a > > word > > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > > this? > > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:46:22 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:46:22 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays Message-ID: Hi all, I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop pretty fast. This is how it looks. Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect response Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. Repeat 2500 times. I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the task to 500 ms. I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive delay. Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks, Conrad Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Aug 20 18:48:06 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:48:06 -0400 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <79e6792f-a33b-4857-b04f-acafbdf8eae4@c29g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Conrad, Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which answers the first question. Next question, are you running this under Windows XP, or Vista? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi all, > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop >pretty fast. This is how it looks. >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect >response >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. >Repeat 2500 times. > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each >audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the >task to 500 ms. > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive >delay. > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > >Thanks, >Conrad >Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 16:22:29 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:22:29 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <4a8d9a6c.5244f10a.30b5.0d5aSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am running XP. I see from other discussions streaming is the way to go. I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't help. I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh rate and that helped a little. Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can figure out how to do that. Thanks for the help! On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Conrad, > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > answers the first question.  Next question, are you running this > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >Hi all, > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files.  My samples loop > >pretty fast.  This is how it looks. > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > >response > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > >Repeat 2500 times. > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > >audio file.  This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > >task to 500 ms. > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > >delay. > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > >Thanks, > >Conrad > >Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From godotworkaround at googlemail.com Sat Aug 22 13:38:53 2009 From: godotworkaround at googlemail.com (vinz) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:38:53 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <842f5044-7169-4ebd-8cf5-eed60fadae3e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Ben, tried to add 'Sleep x' in between the two 'WritePort' but unfortunately it did not do the trick. It actually did with 'Sleep 40', but considering my stimuli (type 1) last about 6-7ms that delay is obviously infeasible. I can still use the data (getting the event table, correcting it with a custom script in matlab and then epoching in Neuroscan according to the modified event table file) even though, as you may understand, it is kind of a pain.. In fact, given that there must be a way to get the triggers sent right and neat in the first place, it feels quite annoying to have to correct them after each session. Once again, any help on how to send triggers for short-lasting stimuli (we are experiencing problems for any length<100ms) would be much appreciated. Thank you, vinz. On Aug 18, 6:31 pm, vinz wrote: > Thank you Ben, > I will try it out tomorrow, and then let you know. > > Thank you again. > vinz. > > On Aug 18, 3:25 pm, ben robinson wrote: > > > maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the "WritePort &H378, > > 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. > > ben > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz wrote: > > > > Hello group, > > > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > > > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > > > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > > > station. > > > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > > > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > > > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > > > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > > > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > > > this: > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > > > instead of: > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > > > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > > > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > > > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > > > WritePort &H378,1 > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > WritePort &H378,3 > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > WritePort &H378,7 > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > > > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > > > Thank you, > > > vinz. > > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > > >http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > > > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > > > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > > > presentation. > > > > > Greetz, > > > > > liwenna > > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will > > > post > > > > > my question again. > > > > > > greetz, > > > > > Kim > > > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed > > > for > > > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you > > > use > > > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along > > > the > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show > > > the > > > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a > > > word > > > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > > > this? > > > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 22 14:01:55 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:01:55 +1000 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: to get 6-7ms duration your monitor must be running at ~ 142Hz - that's a fast refresh! You must be using canvas (I assume, because you are using WritePort commands). Anyway, say your monitor is set to 100Hz. You should be able to copy from offscreen canvas at the start of a refresh, and follow the copy command with a writeport then Sleep for 7ms, then zero the port, and fit it all in the 10ms refresh. I thought Neuroscan equipment liked pulsewidths of a few ms, and my old lab had no worries with 7ms duration pulses. At 11:38 PM 22/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ben, > >tried to add 'Sleep x' in between the two 'WritePort' but >unfortunately it did not do the trick. > >It actually did with 'Sleep 40', but considering my stimuli (type 1) >last about 6-7ms that delay is obviously infeasible. >I can still use the data (getting the event table, correcting it with >a custom script in matlab and then epoching in Neuroscan according to >the modified event table file) even though, as you may understand, it >is kind of a pain.. > >In fact, given that there must be a way to get the triggers sent right >and neat in the first place, it feels quite annoying to have to >correct them after each session. > >Once again, any help on how to send triggers for short-lasting stimuli >(we are experiencing problems for any length<100ms) would be much >appreciated. > >Thank you, >vinz. > >On Aug 18, 6:31 pm, vinz wrote: > > Thank you Ben, > > I will try it out tomorrow, and then let you know. > > > > Thank you again. > > vinz. > > > > On Aug 18, 3:25 pm, ben robinson wrote: > > > > > maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the > "WritePort &H378, > > > 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. > > > ben > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz > wrote: > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > > > > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > > > > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > > > > station. > > > > > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > > > > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > > > > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > > > > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > > > > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > > > > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > > > > this: > > > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > > > > > instead of: > > > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > > > > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > > > > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > > > > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > > > > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > > > > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > > > > > WritePort &H378,1 > > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > > > WritePort &H378,3 > > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > > > WritePort &H378,7 > > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > > > > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > vinz. > > > > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > > > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > > > >http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-th > e-E-Pr.... > > > > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > > > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to > the design > > > > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > > > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > > > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > > > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > > > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > > > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > > > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > > > > presentation. > > > > > > > Greetz, > > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh > rate is really > > > > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when > building, I will > > > > post > > > > > > my question again. > > > > > > > > greetz, > > > > > > Kim > > > > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of > experiments designed > > > > for > > > > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which > deal with timing > > > > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. > Only other thing > > > > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make > sure that you > > > > use > > > > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently > high enough > > > > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime > (forgive me if I'm > > > > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > > > > building and post back here with problems that you > encounter along > > > > the > > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I > want to show > > > > the > > > > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime > them with a > > > > word > > > > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > > > > this? > > > > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > Kim > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 16:13:07 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:13:07 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <1a10ce28-e36a-43f1-ae94-a936ce329d38@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? Thanks again. Conrad On Aug 21, 11:22 am, Conrad wrote: > I am running XP.  I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > go. > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > help. > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > rate and that helped a little. > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > figure out how to do that. > > Thanks for the help! > > On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Conrad, > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > answers the first question.  Next question, are you running this > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > >Hi all, > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files.  My samples loop > > >pretty fast.  This is how it looks. > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > >response > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > >audio file.  This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > >task to 500 ms. > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > >delay. > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > >Thanks, > > >Conrad > > >Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 24 16:41:56 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:41:56 +1000 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: there's probably some much simpler way to do this that i don't know about, but you could do it with code. Need to Dim mySoundBuffers As SoundBufferCollection Set mySoundBuffers = new SoundBufferCollection mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer1, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer2, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer3, , , 'Spin through the collection and debug.print the name Dim r As RteObject Dim nIndex As Long For nIndex = 1 To newCollection.Count Set r = newCollection.Item(nIndex) If Not r Is Nothing Then Display.Canvas.Text 5, nIndex * 20, "Collection object " &_ "# " & nIndex & ": " & r.Name End If Next 'nIndex At 02:13 AM 25/08/2009, you wrote: >I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- >Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? > >So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? > >Thanks again. >Conrad > > > >On Aug 21, 11:22 am, Conrad wrote: > > I am running XP. I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > > go. > > > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > > help. > > > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > > rate and that helped a little. > > > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > > figure out how to do that. > > > > Thanks for the help! > > > > On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Conrad, > > > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > > answers the first question. Next question, are you running this > > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop > > > >pretty fast. This is how it looks. > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > > >audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > > >task to 500 ms. > > > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > > >delay. > > > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Conrad > > > >Madison, WI > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 24 16:57:19 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:57:19 +1000 Subject: audio files and delays Message-ID: Whooops .. thought I was clicking save, not send... better finish this now, then :) there's probably some much simpler way to do this that i don't know about, but you could do it with code. Need to do something with SoundBuffer I think ... no idea whether this will work, but might be one track to look at for preloading audio info into memory. 'make a collection of soundbuffers Dim mySoundBuffers As SoundBufferCollection Set mySoundBuffers = new SoundBufferCollection 'add buffers to hold as many audio files as needed for a trial mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer1, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer2, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer3, , , 'set the file for the buffer to hold sBuffer1.FileName = "myWavFile-1.wav" sBuffer2.FileName = "myWavFile-2.wav" sBuffer3.FileName = "myWavFile-3.wav" 'load the buffer into memory sBuffer1.Load sBuffer2.Load sBuffer3.Load ..... 'play the appropriate file If cond = "whatever" Then sBuffer1.Play ElseIf cond = "another" Then sBuffer2.Play Else sBuffer3.Play End If ~Peter At 02:13 AM 25/08/2009, you wrote: >I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- >Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? > >So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? > >Thanks again. >Conrad > > > >On Aug 21, 11:22 am, Conrad wrote: > > I am running XP. I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > > go. > > > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > > help. > > > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > > rate and that helped a little. > > > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > > figure out how to do that. > > > > Thanks for the help! > > > > On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Conrad, > > > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > > answers the first question. Next question, are you running this > > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop > > > >pretty fast. This is how it looks. > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > > >audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > > >task to 500 ms. > > > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > > >delay. > > > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Conrad > > > >Madison, WI > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From stephanedebrito at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 14:19:37 2009 From: stephanedebrito at gmail.com (sphdsdb) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:19:37 -0700 Subject: Array problem Message-ID: Dear all, I am trying to programme an emotional stroop experiment, but I am facing a problem with the array declared in the inline I think. I have downloaded the NoRepeat.es file from the pst website: http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic324-5-1.aspx This file presents 4 different lists of words, each with 5 words. The inline RandomizeStim makes sure that no words from the same list are presented on two consecutive trials. In the inline, there is this line for the array: 'Declare an array of 20 slots to hold 5 stim of each of 4 types. Slot 0 is unused. Dim arrStim(20) As Integer I wanted to present 4 lists, each including 12 words. So, I have changed this line to: 'Declare an array of 48 slots to hold 12 stim of each of 4 types. Slot 0 is unused. Dim arrStim(48) As Integer I have also added the 28 additional levels needed in the TrialList. When I do this, my experiment works fine, but it takes about 5 seconds for the instructions to appear. Then, I have tried to present 4 lists, each including 24 words. So, I have changed this line to: 'Declare an array of 96 slots to hold 24 stim of each of 4 types. Slot 0 is unused. Dim arrStim(96) As Integer I have added the 48 additional levels in the TrialList. In that case, the experiment does not even start. The screen stays blank…. At the moment, I don’t have the hardware key plugged in, as one of my colleagues is using it. Can it be that the problem has nothing to do with the array and that this is caused by the absence of the hardwarekey? Any help is much appreciated. stephane --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From blweidler at davidson.edu Wed Aug 26 18:41:54 2009 From: blweidler at davidson.edu (Blaire) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:41:54 -0700 Subject: Removing {ENTER} from screen display of echo Message-ID: In part of the program I need participants to be able to submit four word answers based on one picture. They need to submit each answer separately, and NOT be able to edit it once they've pressed enter. But, they do need to be able to SEE each of the other three answers while they're typing the fourth, and then ultimately all four before they "submit" that screen and move to the next slide object. We've been able to get the .RESP written into an attribute and then displayed on the screen and make this work, but since {ENTER} is set to the termination of the echo box, the screen displays the entered PLUS the {ENTER}. Earlier, we were able to get the program to do a certain command based on a .RESP + "{ENTER}", but when we tried to prevent it from displaying the {ENTER} by using a - "{ENTER}", but that won't run due to the error "type mismatch". Any ideas how to display what has previously been captured in an echo on to the screen WITHOUT whatever key was used to terminate the echo box? Thanks for any help! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Aug 27 13:12:33 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:12:33 +0100 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Conrad et al., I've worked quite a bit with audio files, and pre-buffering in the style of Peter is usually the way to go for me (never used the .add and some differences but this looked very neat). However, I do not think this (problem) should be happening in the first place, unless you use a sort of manual loop (or jump-label, for instance). Do you have these 2500 repeats in a loop, or using many sequences? The thing is that E-Prime should always pre-buffer sound-files if used in a slide (in e-basic help: "E-Studio automatically generates calls to SoundBuffer.Load for the buffer identified as SoundOut.ActiveBuffer for each SoundOut object in the experiment"), and although I have never believed E-Prime can do what NO professional music programme, to my knowledge, can (i.e. play sound with 0 latency) even with sub-quality soundcards (e.g. those with ASIO drivers) and directx engine, the latency should not be... growing. This typically suggests a memory or processing 'leak', such as when you leave response collections unfinished, etc. I therefore suggest rather than looking at the sound, to take a look at your design and programming (of the rest). To give you some indication: I'm currently doing a tapping tasks which should involve about 1200 taps that are to be made in sync with tone (i.e. subject hears tones at about 1 Hz and responds with the spacebar or whatever at similar Hz, trying to minimise tap-to-response asynchrony). So I do just about what Peter suggested (i.e. preload with script, play with script). I find that the onset of the playing is pretty accurate, certainly not shifting, but sometimes, my 50 ms stimuli are cut off (easily detectable as they have a fade-in and out, so that you hear a tick if the fade-in is not played correctly. I've recreated this design in several ways (such as described, or doing buffer.load once, long before the sound is played, etc), more importantly also using normal sound-objects (in or not in slide-objects), but the cut-offs as described above is always present. Anyway, the quality of the sound is not crucial to my experiment, nor is the timing as such as long as these errors are equally distributed over conditions, but just a (sorry) long-winded story to say that I'm sure that buffering errors occur... but they should not be as you describe (growing). Should you find no problematic issue with the rest of your design, I have one remaining tip: make 1 audio file with silences and samples pre-mixed, instead of > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > >response > > >Slide 4: 100 ms 1. make soundbuffer etc as Peter described, make it at least 1101 ms 2. fill the buffer with one file: 350 ms of audio clip, followed by 50 ms of silence, followed by 600 ms of audio clip, followed by 100 ms of silence, load and 3. play the file (it will keep playing following this command) 4. show slides 1 -4 with whatever you want. Sometimes this method takes quite a bit of time and is, granted, extremely inflexible. But, download a trial version of CoolEdit (these days called adobe audition), and you will be able to get your silences and sounds beyond millisecond accurate: if your system plays at 44.1 Khz, timing accuracy should be correct at about 0.02 ms level. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Conrad Sent: 24 August 2009 17:13 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: audio files and delays I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? Thanks again. Conrad On Aug 21, 11:22 am, Conrad wrote: > I am running XP.  I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > go. > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > help. > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > rate and that helped a little. > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > figure out how to do that. > > Thanks for the help! > > On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Conrad, > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > answers the first question.  Next question, are you running this > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > >Hi all, > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files.  My samples loop > > >pretty fast.  This is how it looks. > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > >response > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > >audio file.  This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > >task to 500 ms. > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > >delay. > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > >Thanks, > > >Conrad > > >Madison, WI This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From nkpiano at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 13:42:50 2009 From: nkpiano at gmail.com (nkpiano) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:42:50 -0700 Subject: GE scanner recognizing Eprime Message-ID: Our GE scanner automatically opens "Brainwave" even with the Lumina box set to "Eprime" mode and with the Eprime paradigm up and running on the paradigm PC. Our paradigm PC is NOT a laptop and is in a room separate from the MR scanner. Does anyone know how to access and run Eprime from the scanner console? Thank you. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 15:36:28 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:36:28 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01DA6D1D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks Michael, Peter, and David. I didn't have a loop or a jump. My problem had a much simpler solution for me, use E-Prime 1! The word on the street is EP2 is currently a bit buggy with audio files. I wrote up an identical program in EP1 and I got my delays down to an average of 7 or 8 ms per slide, which is pretty dang good. Two other tips to share is adding a pre-release to the slide prior to the audio slide. The pre-release duration is the same as the slide duration. Also I closed other programs before running the task. That's it. No inlines necessary. Conrad On Aug 27, 8:12 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Conrad et al., >         I've worked quite a bit with audio files, and pre-buffering in the style of Peter is usually the way to go for me (never used the .add and some differences but this looked very neat). However, I do not think this (problem) should be happening in the first place, unless you use a sort of manual loop (or jump-label, for instance). Do you have these 2500 repeats in a loop, or using many sequences? The thing is that E-Prime should always pre-buffer sound-files if used in a slide (in e-basic help: "E-Studio automatically generates calls to SoundBuffer.Load for the buffer identified as SoundOut.ActiveBuffer for each SoundOut object in the experiment"), and although I have never believed E-Prime can do what NO professional music programme, to my knowledge, can (i.e. play sound with 0 latency) even with sub-quality soundcards (e.g. those with ASIO drivers) and directx engine, the latency should not be... growing. This typically suggests a memory or processing 'leak', such as when you leave response collections unfinished, etc. I therefore suggest rather than looking at the sound, to take a look at your design and programming (of the rest). >         To give you some indication: I'm currently doing a tapping tasks which should involve about 1200 taps that are to be made in sync with tone (i.e. subject hears tones at about 1 Hz and responds with the spacebar or whatever at similar Hz, trying to minimise tap-to-response asynchrony). So I do just about what Peter suggested (i.e. preload with script, play with script). I find that the onset of the playing is pretty accurate, certainly not shifting, but sometimes, my 50 ms stimuli are cut off (easily detectable as they have a fade-in and out, so that you hear a tick if the fade-in is not played correctly. I've recreated this design in several ways (such as described, or doing buffer.load once, long before the sound is played, etc), more importantly also using normal sound-objects (in or not in slide-objects), but the cut-offs as described above is always present. Anyway, the quality of the sound is not crucial to my experiment, nor is the timing as such as long as these errors are equally distributed over conditions, but just a (sorry) long-winded story to say that I'm sure that buffering errors occur... but they should not be as you describe (growing). > >         Should you find no problematic issue with the rest of your design, I have one remaining tip: make 1 audio file with silences and samples pre-mixed, instead of > > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms > > 1. make soundbuffer etc as Peter described, make it at least 1101 ms > 2. fill the buffer with one file: 350 ms of audio clip, followed by 50 ms of silence, followed by 600 ms of audio clip, followed by 100 ms of silence, load and > 3. play the file (it will keep playing following this command) > 4. show slides 1 -4 with whatever you want. > > Sometimes this method takes quite a bit of time and is, granted, extremely inflexible. But, download a trial version of CoolEdit (these days called adobe audition), and you will be able to get your silences and sounds beyond millisecond accurate: if your system plays at 44.1 Khz, timing accuracy should be correct at about 0.02 ms level. > > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Conrad > Sent: 24 August 2009 17:13 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: audio files and delays > > I have not figured out how to cache.  Getting the sample script from E- > Prime is taking longer than I hoped.  Does anybody have it? > > So this issue is unresolved.  Any other thoughts? > > Thanks again. > Conrad > > On Aug 21, 11:22 am, Conrad wrote: > > I am running XP.  I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > > go. > > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > > help. > > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > > rate and that helped a little. > > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > > figure out how to do that. > > > Thanks for the help! > > > On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > Conrad, > > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > > answers the first question.  Next question, are you running this > > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hi all, > > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files.  My samples loop > > > >pretty fast.  This is how it looks. > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > > >audio file.  This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > > >task to 500 ms. > > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > > >delay. > > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Conrad > > > >Madison, WI > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Aug 27 15:49:48 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:49:48 -0400 Subject: Removing {ENTER} from screen display of echo In-Reply-To: <46a75ab1-8597-4def-85c8-996f39305211@w6g2000yqw.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Just repeating what I posted earlier today at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3368-5-1.aspx : Could you just remove the offending terminal character with a bit of inline script, e.g., assuming your stimulus is called StimSlide, Dim xString as String xString = Left$( StimSlide.RESP, (Len(StimSlide.RESP) - 1) ) ? Please see the online E-Basic Help for more info on the Left$() and Len() functions. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >In part of the program I need participants to be able to submit four >word answers based on one picture. They need to submit each answer >separately, and NOT be able to edit it once they've pressed enter. >But, they do need to be able to SEE each of the other three answers >while they're typing the fourth, and then ultimately all four before >they "submit" that screen and move to the next slide object. > >We've been able to get the .RESP written into an attribute and then >displayed on the screen and make this work, but since {ENTER} is set >to the termination of the echo box, the screen displays the entered >PLUS the {ENTER}. > >Earlier, we were able to get the program to do a certain command based >on a .RESP + "{ENTER}", but when we tried to prevent it from >displaying the {ENTER} by using a - "{ENTER}", but that won't run due >to the error "type mismatch". > >Any ideas how to display what has previously been captured in an echo >on to the screen WITHOUT whatever key was used to terminate the echo >box? > >Thanks for any help! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Aug 27 16:11:14 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:11:14 -0400 Subject: Array problem In-Reply-To: <9924f913-4fad-49c4-9de9-c858d5707fc7@g31g2000yqc.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Stephane, I suspect that your run-time delay has nothing to do with the lack of a hardware key (especially since E-Prime does not use the hardware key at run-time), and everything to do with the size and complexity of your arrays and randomization needs. The method illustrated in PST's NoRepeat.es example is non-deterministic, which means it does not guarantee a solution in any finite time and the search time gets longer as the arrays get longer and stimulus lists more complex. You can find this discussed at length on the PST Forum at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3166-5-1.aspx , http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3178-5-1.aspx , and http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2186-5-1.aspx . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/26/2009 10:19 AM Wednesday, you wrote: >Dear all, > >I am trying to programme an emotional stroop experiment, but I am >facing a problem with the array declared in the inline I think. I have >downloaded the NoRepeat.es file from the pst website: >http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic324-5-1.aspx > >This file presents 4 different lists of words, each with 5 words. The >inline RandomizeStim makes sure that no words from the same list are >presented on two consecutive trials. > >In the inline, there is this line for the array: >'Declare an array of 20 slots to hold 5 stim of each of 4 types. Slot >0 is unused. >Dim arrStim(20) As Integer > >I wanted to present 4 lists, each including 12 words. So, I have >changed this line to: > >'Declare an array of 48 slots to hold 12 stim of each of 4 types. Slot >0 is unused. >Dim arrStim(48) As Integer > >I have also added the 28 additional levels needed in the TrialList. >When I do this, my experiment works fine, but it takes about 5 seconds >for the instructions to appear. > >Then, I have tried to present 4 lists, each including 24 words. So, I >have changed this line to: > >'Declare an array of 96 slots to hold 24 stim of each of 4 types. Slot >0 is unused. >Dim arrStim(96) As Integer > >I have added the 48 additional levels in the TrialList. In that case, >the experiment does not even start. The screen stays blank…. > >At the moment, I don’t have the hardware key plugged in, as one of my >colleagues is using it. Can it be that the problem has nothing to do >with the array and that this is caused by the absence of the >hardwarekey? > >Any help is much appreciated. > >stephane --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From gsamson at goldbern.co.uk Fri Aug 28 10:27:38 2009 From: gsamson at goldbern.co.uk (Gary Samson) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:27:38 -0700 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Message-ID: Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer Department of Psychology University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 www.kent.ac.uk/psychology --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 11:39:41 2009 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:39:41 -0700 Subject: Startle probe or sound while showing image Message-ID: I am trying to put a startle experiment up and running but I can not get the sound to play while still presenting the image. What I want to do is to have a sound presented after 5s into a 10s long image presentation. What I get right now is sound and image at the same time or sound after image offset. I have also tried to get an image superimposed on an other image, which is kind of the same problem, but with no luck. Thanks Jens --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Aug 28 12:01:28 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:01:28 +0100 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? In-Reply-To: <933a1528-23a8-4162-b52f-10e4617ce21b@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Few people like Vista much and I think that is the main reason they are reluctant to running critical stuff on it. However, personally, I never had problems with running E-Prime on vista, although I did not make sure in any technical manner. If timing is your main concern, I would suggest running those timer tests from the E-Prime site, preferably on a pc that has both vista and winxp on it. Vista does include quite a number of tools to tweak all kinds of extra processes, but it will take a little time to get it right - I would urge not to just use your e-prime on a fresh install (for example, you do not want it to reboot during an experiment because of updates!), but then, that goes for xp too. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Samson Sent: 28 August 2009 11:28 To: E-Prime Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer Department of Psychology University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 www.kent.ac.uk/psychology This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ll356 at medschl.cam.ac.uk Fri Aug 28 12:11:29 2009 From: ll356 at medschl.cam.ac.uk (River) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:11:29 -0700 Subject: OnsetDelay query Message-ID: Hi, I'm curious about my experiments OnsetDelay. As i understand it, OnsetDelay is the difference between when the image should be shown according to your design and when it is actually shown and that these delays are often caused by the computers OS doing stuff you can't stop as well as (possibly) the stimuli prep time. At present participants see a bunch of stimuli in this structure: 1) fixation cross-500ms 2) 1280x1024 32 bit colour image- 2500ms, which then clears to a blank white screen for 2000ms giving a total response window of 4500ms (the reponse does not terminate the image or the blank screen). Structurally, this is followed by a Wait object of 2000ms to accomodate the blank white screen following the image. So therefore the OnsetDelay in this instance describes the delay between the end of the fixation duration and the start of the image duration. Would this be correct? My monitors sampling rate is 60Hz (as listed in the eprime data files) and so my sample refresh duration is 16.67ms. I noticed that the fixation cross or the blank screen occasionally appeared for longer than specified so added a PreRelease of 200ms to the fixation (but not the Wait as this caused a failure to record responses in that period), as I thought the large bitmaps were taking a while to load. I also changed all my durations to accomodate the refresh duration: 1) 501ms 2)2505ms, 2004ms, giving a total of 4509ms Despite this, my OnsetDelays for the colour image still average around 1000ms across all the stimuli. The DurationError is 0, I'm running no other applications and I've tried increasing the PreRelease to 400ms and 450ms with no obvious change. I also placed a PreRelease on the Wait Object to determine if the delay was coming from the prep time for the fixation and this didn't improve the OnsetDelay either so now I'm stumped! I noticed that on another version where smaller images were being used (1024 x 768, and the display size was changed to accomodate) the Onset delay was around 600ms with no PreRelease on the fixation, and 400ms with the PreRelease. When the screen is physically smaller (i.e. the experiment is being run on a small laptop instead of a large screen desktop) it seems as if this delay is reduced again. Is it possible that the image size is the problem and if so, is there a way to fix this or is it just a symptom of my systems processing power? Or is it the OS doing stuff and therefore it can't be fixed? I've attempted to guage my screen refresh rate using the Refresh detector attached to the SRBox but cannot get it to work (the sensor seems to be working when its waved around and i'm testing in 'ambient lighting conditions' as prescribed). I'm using Eprime v1. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Perhaps i'm just misinterpreting the definition of OnsetDelay...or any of the other things mentioned here! River --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From debramalpass at yahoo.co.uk Fri Aug 28 13:36:45 2009 From: debramalpass at yahoo.co.uk (Deb Malpass) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:36:45 -0700 Subject: Specifying onset of response time Message-ID: Hi - I'm designing an experiment where participants are visually presented with text (e.g. "boats") followed by the auditory presentation of a question (e.g "What did you build?"). They then have to respond to the question constructing their answer using the text they have seen (e.g. "I built boats"). I need to measure their response from the onset of the verb in the auditory question until the voice key is triggered. Is there any way in E-Prime to specify when to begin measuring response time? Many Thanks, Debra Malpass --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 15:15:33 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:15:33 -0400 Subject: Startle probe or sound while showing image In-Reply-To: <2edddc9b-de5d-4981-b04b-70f6beb08987@m38g2000yqh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jens, Suppose your image object is called StimImage, and your startle sound object is called StartleSound. Then try this: Set Duration of StimImage to 5000 ms, and make sure that Clear After is No. Set Duration of StartleSound to 5000 ms, and make sure that End Sound Action is (none). Now StimImage will come on, and 5 sec later your startle sound will start, without erasing your StimImage. Your startle sound will play, and the StartleSound object will continue to run the full 5 sec even after your sound file ends, completing the desired 10 sec interval. If needed, you may also collect a response to either StimImage or StartleSound (or both, if you dare!). If you want to collect a response to StimImage over the entire 10 sec, then set its Time Limit to 10000 ms (see Extended Input in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am trying to put a startle experiment up and running but I can not >get the sound to play while still presenting the image. > >What I want to do is to have a sound presented after 5s into a 10s >long image presentation. > >What I get right now is sound and image at the same time or sound >after image offset. > > >I have also tried to get an image superimposed on an other image, >which is kind of the same problem, but with no luck. > > >Thanks >Jens --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 15:23:43 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:23:43 -0400 Subject: Specifying onset of response time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Debra, Hmm, wouldn't that be nice. But as far as I know E-Prime cannot do this, though perhaps someone else has a better answer. I would just measure RT from the start of the audio, then during data analysis subtract out the known time from the start of the audio to the onset of the verb. Or, if you really need that data at run time, include the verb onset times in your stimulus list, and then add a bit of inline script to do any needed calculations. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi - I'm designing an experiment where participants are visually >presented with text (e.g. "boats") followed by the auditory >presentation of a question (e.g "What did you build?"). They then >have to respond to the question constructing their answer using the >text they have seen (e.g. "I built boats"). > >I need to measure their response from the onset of the verb in the >auditory question until the voice key is triggered. > >Is there any way in E-Prime to specify when to begin measuring >response time? > >Many Thanks, > >Debra Malpass --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From zajdeld at ohsu.edu Fri Aug 28 18:25:56 2009 From: zajdeld at ohsu.edu (Daniel Zajdel) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:25:56 -0700 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Message-ID: My lab will be hanging on to WinXP for as long as possible. I have definitely seen the timing issue with Vista and I don't forsee Windows7 to be any better. Neurology Oregon Health & Science University ________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com on behalf of Gary Samson Sent: Fri 8/28/2009 3:27 AM To: E-Prime Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer Department of Psychology University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 www.kent.ac.uk/psychology --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 14:48:48 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:48:48 -0400 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? In-Reply-To: <933a1528-23a8-4162-b52f-10e4617ce21b@18g2000yqa.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Nothing has changed with regard to reliability of E-Prime 2 under Vista. Note that the latest build of EP2 (2.0.8.22) was released over a year ago on 21 May 2008, and nothing has changed since then. So all the reported problems remain: Delays and crashes when playing sound (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1361-12-1.aspx ), crashes when playing movies (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1850-4-1.aspx ), anomalies in measured response times (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2994-12-1.aspx ). In short, DO NOT use Vista for E-Prime 2! E-Prime 1, by contrast, does seem to work OK under Vista. Nevertheless, I would go even further to insist that Vista not be used for running any experiments, as Vista simply has not proved itself reliable for laboratory use in the way that XP has. OK though to use Vista for *developing* the experiment programs and then move them to XP machines for running subjects, if you can get through the occasional glitches during development -- that's what I do. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime >under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current >thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? > >Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer >Department of Psychology >University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP >Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 >www.kent.ac.uk/psychology --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 15:54:33 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:54:33 -0400 Subject: OnsetDelay query In-Reply-To: <8136d9a1-3ac1-4a3d-8aa3-9fbbfdd7a8fb@j21g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: River, >So therefore the OnsetDelay in this instance describes the delay >between the end of the fixation duration and the start of the image >duration. Would this be correct? Just to be clear, there is practically *no* delay between the *actual* end of the fixation duration and the *actual* start of the image duration. OnsetDelay refers rather to the delay from the *specified* start time of an object to the *actual* start time of that object. This is illustrated in a very complex diagram in Appendix E of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. Beyond that, I would guess that your high-resolution images present a problem. You could test that further by trying some good old 6402x480 16-bit images. Offhand, OnsetDelays of over 400 ms seem *way* too long, and I hope others weigh in with their own experiences here. You might also resort to pre-loading or caching the images before display. You may download PST's "Pre-loading images without the use of Canvas" sample from their web site, or you may try the TimingParadigm5 example mentioned in Chapter 3 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime (PST does not provide TimingParadigm5 for download, you must request it through e-mail or Web Support as I did). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sun Aug 30 16:30:46 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:30:46 +1000 Subject: PreRelease?? In-Reply-To: <8136d9a1-3ac1-4a3d-8aa3-9fbbfdd7a8fb@j21g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Hi I was looking at prerelease, and came across what seems to me to be an anomaly. Two snippets, below. One from Users Guide, the other from help. Key bits underlined. Prerelease is mentioned more in Guide chapter 3 example paradigms, used with event mode. Yet e-basic notes that it is ignored during event mode. So does anyone know what is the real story with prerelease? does it operate in Event mode, or not? Secondly, Timing paradigm 2 details a masking paradigm with Probe duration 90ms, and waiting for a response for 2000 ms. The Probe has 100 ms prerelease so the following mask can be prepared. Have a look at the bold line in e=prime help snippet below. Again, does anyone know the real story with this? Is e-prime example paradigm fantasy, or has the implementation of prerelease been modified early, and the woeful help has escaped notice and updating for 7(?) years? From p110 of e-prime users guide (from version 1): ---------------------------------------------------- Timing Paradigm 2: Critical sequence of events ... An example would be to present a sequence of a fixation, probe, and mask, where the duration of each of the events is precise, the time of the response is precise, and the response may occur during or after the stimulus event (e.g., response to the probe occurred while the mask display was presented). Subject input may alter the timing (e.g., remove the stimulus when the subject responds). After the critical sequence of events, the timing of the remaining events (e.g., feedback) and the time to choose the next condition are not critical (e.g., delays of less than 100ms are not critical). This paradigm model uses Event timing mode with PreRelease enabled on all objects except the last one of the sequence. Durations for displays are set based on the refresh rate of the video mode. ----------------------------------------------------- From e-basic help (both versions 1, and 2) ---------------------------------------------- Syntax RteRunnableInputObject.PreRelease Description Amount of time released during the processing of the current object to allow for setup of the next object. Comments ¨ This property is used only with Cumulative Timing Mode. It is ignored in Event timing. ¨ PreRelease is ignored by objects which have their Run method terminated by a response. ¨ If the object has a post-action (e.g., ClearAfter), the Pre-Release time will have little effect (e.g., the object must wait until its true offset time before clearing). ----------------------------------------- --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 31 07:01:51 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:01:51 +1000 Subject: OnsetDelay query Message-ID: Hi This problem could reflect poorly performing graphics system (or other) on the computer. Agree with David - 1000 ms load times are ridiculous, and even 400 ms, on the laptop, seems like a very long time, whether it is happening during a trial sequence, or not. On an old p4 2.8Ghz laptop, garden variety graphics, 768Mb RAM I got load times in e-prime of 20 ms for a 2.3Mb BMP, 7 ms for 567Kb pic. E-prime Users guide cites old Pentium 450MHz 30ms load times, bitmap unspecified file size. You should cache your image files. - What are the file sizes? What are these machine's configurations? Load times of 1000 ms out of order, unless your files are huge .. +100Mb maybe ..., or your computer is old (and thus very slow), or ill. -Your computer (graphics card / drivers?; have you a g-Force, N-vidia card?? if so, try ATI... CPU?; RAM?; HDD?) mightn't be operating too well when it comes to discussing images with e-prime... or there could be something to do with the programming of the paradigm that is screwing things up between fixation and stim. The wait object? can't see how it could influence after fixation executes... Maybe to find the more about cause of problem try logging 'ActionDelay' on stim presentation pbject, with no prerelease on fixation. Action delay will tell you how long it takes for stim object to do all prep for drawing to screen. 1) If loading is the problem, ActionDelay will be the same as onsetDelay. 2) if they aren't the same then something else in the program is possibly delaying execution of stim object. To check whether prerelease is doing anything, set fixation pr to maybe 200 ms, then run and log action delay and onset delay on stim object again. Action delay should be the same as with no pr, and onset delay *should* be reduced by 200 ms, i think. (but you report no influence of fixation prerelease on onset time..??) Reduction in load time of 400 ms (from 1000 to 600 ms with no prerelease) with image dimension (and thus size) reduction (on the same computer) would suggest that it is your computer graphics (and or RAM, CPU, HDD) performance, not odd code, that is causing the delay. A 1024*768*32bit image is about 5/8 file size of 1280*1024*32bit image (I think). Interestingly, but perhaps coincidentally , 5/8 of 1000ms = 625ms. However, I can't work out how this would add up with what you note about prerelease behaviour. Same conclusion from the delay reduction on another machine (the laptop). Don't think it would have anything to do with screen *size*, provided that its screen could run native at the appropriate resolution. Different machine, different graphics hardware, CPU etc = different load times. Still long though ... Anyway, try pre-load the image files, and if you still have timing issues, change your video card - or your computer, if you have a better specced 1 around. Best ~Peter At 01:54 AM 29/08/2009, you wrote: >River, > > >So therefore the OnsetDelay in this instance describes the delay > >between the end of the fixation duration and the start of the image > >duration. Would this be correct? > >Just to be clear, there is practically *no* delay between the >*actual* end of the fixation duration and the *actual* start of the >image duration. OnsetDelay refers rather to the delay from the >*specified* start time of an object to the *actual* start time of >that object. This is illustrated in a very complex diagram in >Appendix E of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. > >Beyond that, I would guess that your high-resolution images present a >problem. You could test that further by trying some good old >6402x480 16-bit images. Offhand, OnsetDelays of over 400 ms seem >*way* too long, and I hope others weigh in with their own experiences here. > >You might also resort to pre-loading or caching the images before >display. You may download PST's >"Pre-loading > >images without the use of Canvas" sample from their web site, or you >may try the TimingParadigm5 example mentioned in Chapter 3 of the >User's Guide that came with E-Prime (PST does not provide >TimingParadigm5 for download, you must request it through e-mail or >Web Support as I did). > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 31 18:35:24 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:35:24 -0400 Subject: OnsetDelay query In-Reply-To: <4a97fdcf.5944f10a.6f7b.0ba8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: >You could test that further by trying some good old 6402x480 16-bit images. Oops, just noticed that typo -- should read "640 x 480 ..."! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 31 18:49:32 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:49:32 -0400 Subject: PreRelease?? In-Reply-To: <200908301631.n7UGVEBK006558@mail11.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Peter, At 8/30/2009 12:30 PM Sunday, you wrote: > From e-basic help (both versions 1, and 2) >---------------------------------------------- >Syntax > >RteRunnableInputObject.PreRelease >¨ This property is used only with >Cumulative Timing Mode. It is ignored in Event timing. Thanks for noticing this, and for bringing it to our attention here. I brought this up on the PST Forum over a year ago (in the context of the topic "Size of Image Files", see http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1197-5-1.aspx ), and got this response from Brandon Cernicky: "... thank you for bringing a significant oversight in the E-Basic help file to our attention. The documentation you mentioned in RteRunnableInputObject.PreRelease is minimally out of context and the statement about PreRelease being ignored in Event timing mode is just plain inaccurate. We have typically not referred end users to the E-Basic help for this specific property instead towards the Critical Timing Chapter in the manuals. Thanks again for bring this to our attention so that it can be corrected. "The use of PreRelease works the same for both Cumulative and Event timing modes. Cumulative timing mode depends more on PreRelease because of its temporal sync mechanisms. But Event timing requires the benefits of PreRelease just as well." Hope that clarifies that issue. Also FWIW, as far as I can tell, the E-Basic Help that comes with EP2 contains exactly the same content as in EP1 -- in particular, the EP2 Help lacks any documentation on new features added in EP2. So I expect that any errors in the EP1 Help carry over unchanged into the EP2 Help. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 19:03:50 2009 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:03:50 -0700 Subject: Startle probe or sound while showing image In-Reply-To: <4a97f4a7.5944f10a.7262.0ba6SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you very much. It works perfect. Also, I changed the Duration of the StimImage to an Attribute in a List set at 2000ms and 8000ms. Then, I changed the Duration of the StartleSound to another Attribute set at 8000ms and 2000ms. This gave me the desired 10 sec interval of image presentation with two different SOAs. Early vs. late Thanks again Jens --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From svlevi at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 20:31:01 2009 From: svlevi at gmail.com (susie) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:31:01 -0700 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? In-Reply-To: <55D76FF9A5DA02418C7F92EE0FEA4002AC5126@EX-BE05.ohsu.edu> Message-ID: I bought an XP machine in June after having problems with my new Vista machines. Vista was unable to run sounds with the correct timing even with pre-release and other changes (eg buffering to streaming or vice versa). --Susie On Aug 28, 2:25 pm, "Daniel Zajdel" wrote: > My lab will be hanging on to WinXP for as long as possible. I have definitely seen the timing issue with Vista and I don't forsee Windows7 to be any better. > > Neurology > Oregon Health & Science University > > ________________________________ > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com on behalf of Gary Samson > Sent: Fri 8/28/2009 3:27 AM > To: E-Prime > Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? > > Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime > under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current > thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? > > Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer > Department of Psychology > University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP > Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030www.kent.ac.uk/psychology > >  winmail.dat > 5KViewDownload --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 1 00:44:37 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 10:44:37 +1000 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B991F9@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Could be wrong here, but ... I don't think the pixel size is correct. A pixel is a unit with area .. a mm or cm is a unit of distance. Pixels are square (when used by modern compter displays), so their diagonal is 1.41*side. It seems to me that this calculation returns the number of pixel sides that would fill the diagonal distance, not necessarily the number of pixels. So you could possibly work out how many pixels in the diagonal by dividing 800 by 1.41, but I think this is wrong also - If you drew a 640*480 grid and then drew the diagonal, would it follow the diagonals of all of the pixels it passed through? I'm not sure that it would. When it comes to computations of distance in terms of number of pixels, I think it is simple to define vertical, or horizontal planes, in this way, but very difficult for any other angles. Oh. Visual angle is the angle an object subtends in the visual field, not where it is in the visual field. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_angle .. if you wanted a circle display that subtended 3.2 degrees visual angle, then ,... tan(visual angle) = diameter / viewing distance .. say viewing distance of 1.2 metres tan(3.2) = diameter / 1.2 metres = diameter of 6.7cm .. say viewing distance of 1.5 metres = diameter of 8.3cm .. say viewing distance of 0.9 metres = diameter of 5.0cm At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > Sorry for responding so late - the > message below should be seen as answer here and > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > but as you will most likely be wanting to > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: >1. Write down the size of your monitor, >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. >2. Write down the resolution used in your >experiment. This you can find under >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to >calculate the number of pixels used to create a >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually >thinking that the authors use visual angle >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles >requires the information above. Also, you will >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) >as to how far the monitor is placed from the >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. >Visual angle refers to the angle of the stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > s > /s >Eye< s > \s > s > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the >entire screen has a visual angle of the >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe >I made a few mistakes in the above simple >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools >which will give you the information without >headache: just use your measuring tape and >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > >Best, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: Target position > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 >exactly >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : >right/Lift,how > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > of the total screen size. > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > , and I want to present target letter > appears in one out of six possible positions > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > to the left or right of the circle, > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > as " The task display consisted of > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > distractor letter, presented to the left or > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 1 02:33:15 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:33:15 +1000 Subject: Echo to display--how can I get more control? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 03:40 AM 1/08/2009, you wrote: >@Peter Quain > >I've tried adding a text box with [Slide1.RESP], which works in my >feedback object, to my Slide1 Object. E-Prime doesn't like it, says >that it doesn't exist, which makes sense, because it doesn't yet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm trying to put together an experimental setup in which participants respond to 3 different stimuli presented simultaneously. They respond either A, B, or C. The way I have this set up is as a slide object with the 3 stimuli, accepting their 3 character response. While I can get these three character responses to echo to the screen in one location, I'd like to have each character of their responses echo to the screen under its corresponding stimuli, and I can't seem to get this to work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ... perhaps you could have your stimulus slide (Stim), an inline, then a copy of the stimulus slide (Fback) with text boxes. Stim could terminate when it has collected a response, then the inline grabs the response and sets the text parameters for the following Fback slide. The transition from Stim to Fback need only occupy a single screen refresh, so would unlikely be noticed by subject. Not sure exactly what you are asking in each trial, but if in each trial the response is only made to one of the three stimuli, and you don't want empty text boxes in Fback, then make three Fback slides with only 1 textbox on each, beneath the stimulus that was responded to, and precede each one with a flag. The inline would then include an If statement assessing which stim was responded to, with a corresponding GoTo command jumping to the flag. >@Blaire > >I have used three echoes, but each displays all of the response text >(the "correct response" for the slide is a 3 character string). I >couldn't see anything in the echo display properties that would let me >set the allowable keys. > >Thanks for the responses though. > >On Jul 31, 4:12 am, Blaire wrote: > > Are they just typing A, B OR C, and you just want the letter to appear > > under the correct box? > > > > If so, you should be able to go with 3 echoes, but in the echo > > positioned where you want the A to appear, have only A be allowable, > > in the echo positioned where you want the B to appear, have only B be > > allowable...ect > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 1 05:42:23 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:42:23 +1000 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B991F9@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Screen placement can be a pain. Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a clockface paradigm as an example. In slide objects it is probably trial and errror using callipers, protractor etc that allows you to place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged neatly around circumference of circle so that (having decided on an appropriate viewing distance) the entire display subtends x degrees visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are appropriately located. The text boxes on the slide object are just rectangles (which can be square) with ceratin fill properties. When the slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x y) of each text (or image object), which will include values for the background colour and for the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. It makes sense to organise location of screen elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise functions that draw collections of pixels within them. The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels around the line in a rectangle and using line function to draw in the rectangle allows precise placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any pixel drawing computation which are all handled underneath. Same with the circle. The other interesting thing next on this page is the function for circle. I don't understand C, but ... something like this could be implemented in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. So, I think that one way to get precise placement of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to use the canvas object and, roughly: - run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, 120, ... 300 degrees in an array - populate another array with font character(s) - feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles - populate the rectangle(s) with font characters - draw to screen To get the correct size of the whole stimulus display you'd just need to adjust the radius value in the circle function, and measure the stimulus display with callipers until the correct visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > Sorry for responding so late - the > message below should be seen as answer here and > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > but as you will most likely be wanting to > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: >1. Write down the size of your monitor, >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. >2. Write down the resolution used in your >experiment. This you can find under >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to >calculate the number of pixels used to create a >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually >thinking that the authors use visual angle >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles >requires the information above. Also, you will >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) >as to how far the monitor is placed from the >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. >Visual angle refers to the angle of the stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > s > /s >Eye< s > \s > s > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the >entire screen has a visual angle of the >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe >I made a few mistakes in the above simple >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools >which will give you the information without >headache: just use your measuring tape and >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > >Best, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: Target position > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 >exactly >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : >right/Lift,how > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > of the total screen size. > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > , and I want to present target letter > appears in one out of six possible positions > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > to the left or right of the circle, > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > as " The task display consisted of > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > distractor letter, presented to the left or > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Aug 3 10:06:55 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:06:55 +0100 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <200908010542.n715gus3013129@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Peter, Ashraf & List, Whilst I appreciate the concerns you raised regarding my previous email (and yes, that is exactly what is typically meant by visual angle, hence angle = arctangent(diameter/distance), or if you use excel: DEGREES(ATAN(diameter/distance)), I think below you are getting a bit ahead of the stereotypical E-Primer (typically psychologists rather than programmers). I have occasionally done things like what you suggest below, but know few who would go into the whole fuss of canvas programming, which typically requires extra timing operations (because you log essentially nothing unless programmed), manual screen redraws ('waitforverticalblank'), a second canvas to use as buffer, etc. For those who like that sort of thing, I would be more than willing to send my messy programs, such as this one: http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/UC11.es (save as/ use different name, sorry about the Dutch instructions), illustrating at least the above concepts, and having a couple of nice functions for drawing stuff to the screen. Most people seem to prefer doing something easier, though. I would suggest for the current task a slide with a number of textobjects around a centre, measuring the distance with your measuring tape, tweaking it a bit, until right. Or you could use some basic Pythagoras to get the X and Y values (as Peter suggested) of each single degree within a circle, write them down, put 360 textdisplays in the slidedisplay (or, say, a fifth of that), and hide the ones you don't need. Or drawing all of it in mspaint (start>run>mspaint), which takes a little while, but then again, programming would take some too. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain Sent: 01 August 2009 06:42 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle Screen placement can be a pain. Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a clockface paradigm as an example. In slide objects it is probably trial and errror using callipers, protractor etc that allows you to place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged neatly around circumference of circle so that (having decided on an appropriate viewing distance) the entire display subtends x degrees visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are appropriately located. The text boxes on the slide object are just rectangles (which can be square) with ceratin fill properties. When the slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x y) of each text (or image object), which will include values for the background colour and for the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. It makes sense to organise location of screen elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise functions that draw collections of pixels within them. The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels around the line in a rectangle and using line function to draw in the rectangle allows precise placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any pixel drawing computation which are all handled underneath. Same with the circle. The other interesting thing next on this page is the function for circle. I don't understand C, but ... something like this could be implemented in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. So, I think that one way to get precise placement of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to use the canvas object and, roughly: - run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, 120, ... 300 degrees in an array - populate another array with font character(s) - feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles - populate the rectangle(s) with font characters - draw to screen To get the correct size of the whole stimulus display you'd just need to adjust the radius value in the circle function, and measure the stimulus display with callipers until the correct visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > Sorry for responding so late - the > message below should be seen as answer here and > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > but as you will most likely be wanting to > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: >1. Write down the size of your monitor, >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. >2. Write down the resolution used in your >experiment. This you can find under >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to >calculate the number of pixels used to create a >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually >thinking that the authors use visual angle >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles >requires the information above. Also, you will >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) >as to how far the monitor is placed from the >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. >Visual angle refers to the angle of the stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > s > /s >Eye< s > \s > s > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the >entire screen has a visual angle of the >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe >I made a few mistakes in the above simple >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools >which will give you the information without >headache: just use your measuring tape and >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > >Best, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: Target position > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 >exactly >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : >right/Lift,how > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > of the total screen size. > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > , and I want to present target letter > appears in one out of six possible positions > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > to the left or right of the circle, > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > as " The task display consisted of > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > distractor letter, presented to the left or > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 3 11:04:06 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:04:06 +1000 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B9941F@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich It is lots of fun playing with e-prime. I think groups like this - notably the archives - are good for finding ideas about which ways you may skin your cat. It is nice that different solutions are proposed, perhaps, including those that most people may not employ (but that some might). It is also nice, I think, that different people contribute, and leave their information for others to examine, and make of what they will. Also, I think this was a scientific dialogue. In which case, if something *seems* incorrect it is appropriate to say so, and provide one's logic, rather than remain silent for fear of being wrong, or creating offense. If this logic is wrong or right can be assessed, and the list has done its job. Best Peter At 08:06 PM 3/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Peter, Ashraf & List, > Whilst I appreciate the concerns you > raised regarding my previous email (and yes, > that is exactly what is typically meant by > visual angle, hence angle = > arctangent(diameter/distance), or if you use > excel: DEGREES(ATAN(diameter/distance)), I > think below you are getting a bit ahead of the > stereotypical E-Primer (typically psychologists > rather than programmers). I have occasionally > done things like what you suggest below, but > know few who would go into the whole fuss of > canvas programming, which typically requires > extra timing operations (because you log > essentially nothing unless programmed), manual > screen redraws ('waitforverticalblank'), a > second canvas to use as buffer, etc. For those > who like that sort of thing, I would be more > than willing to send my messy programs, such as > this one: > http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/UC11.es (save > as/ use different name, sorry about the Dutch > instructions), illustrating at least the above > concepts, and having a couple of nice functions > for drawing stuff to the screen. > > Most people seem to prefer doing > something easier, though. I would suggest for > the current task a slide with a number of > textobjects around a centre, measuring the > distance with your measuring tape, tweaking it > a bit, until right. Or you could use some basic > Pythagoras to get the X and Y values (as Peter > suggested) of each single degree within a > circle, write them down, put 360 textdisplays > in the slidedisplay (or, say, a fifth of that), > and hide the ones you don't need. Or drawing > all of it in mspaint (start>run>mspaint), which > takes a little while, but then again, programming would take some too. > > Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain >Sent: 01 August 2009 06:42 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle > > > >Screen placement can be a pain. > >Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a >clockface paradigm as an example. In slide >objects it is probably trial and errror using >callipers, protractor etc that allows you to >place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged >neatly around circumference of circle so that >(having decided on an appropriate viewing >distance) the entire display subtends x degrees >visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in >each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are >appropriately located. The text boxes on the >slide object are just rectangles (which can be >square) with ceratin fill properties. When the >slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will >draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x >y) of each text (or image object), which will >include values for the background colour and for >the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. > >It makes sense to organise location of screen >elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of >rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise >functions that draw collections of pixels within them. > >The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of >drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. > >http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html > >With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each >vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? >Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels >around the line in a rectangle and using line >function to draw in the rectangle allows precise >placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within >it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any >pixel drawing computation which are all handled >underneath. Same with the circle. > >The other interesting thing next on this page is >the function for circle. I don't understand C, >but ... something like this could be implemented >in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. > >So, I think that one way to get precise placement >of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to >use the canvas object and, roughly: > >- run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle >screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, >120, ... 300 degrees in an array >- populate another array with font character(s) >- feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles >- populate the rectangle(s) with font characters >- draw to screen > >To get the correct size of the whole stimulus >display you'd just need to adjust the radius >value in the circle function, and measure the >stimulus display with callipers until the correct >visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli >are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. > > > >At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Ashraf, > > Sorry for responding so late - the > > message below should be seen as answer here and > > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > > but as you will most likely be wanting to > > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: > >1. Write down the size of your monitor, > >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. > >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. > >2. Write down the resolution used in your > >experiment. This you can find under > >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties > >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by > >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y > >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. > >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by > >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> > >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. > >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of > >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels > >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 > >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > > > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm > >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to > >calculate the number of pixels used to create a > >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > > > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually > >thinking that the authors use visual angle > >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any > >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles > >requires the information above. Also, you will > >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) > >as to how far the monitor is placed from the > >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. > >Visual angle refers to the angle of the > stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > > > s > > /s > >Eye< s > > \s > > s > > > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > > > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm > >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the > >entire screen has a visual angle of the > >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which > >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, > >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm > >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 > >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 > >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to > >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > > > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe > >I made a few mistakes in the above simple > >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools > >which will give you the information without > >headache: just use your measuring tape and > >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a > >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye > >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > > > >Best, > >Mich > > > > > > > >Michiel Spap? > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Re: Target position > > > > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the > >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... > >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 > >exactly > >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > > > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : > >right/Lift,how > > > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > > of the total screen size. > > > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > > , and I want to present target letter > > appears in one out of six possible positions > > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > > to the left or right of the circle, > > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > > as " The task display consisted of > > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > > distractor letter, presented to the left or > > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Aug 3 11:24:59 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:24:59 +0100 Subject: Target position and Visual Angle In-Reply-To: <200908031112.n73BCJ46020517@mail14.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Peter, Agreed wholeheartedly. Excuse me if my style came across as a bit aggravated; it was Monday morning, but nothing worth metacommunicating over (to say something psychobabblish) was intended! Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain Sent: 03 August 2009 12:04 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle Hi Mich It is lots of fun playing with e-prime. I think groups like this - notably the archives - are good for finding ideas about which ways you may skin your cat. It is nice that different solutions are proposed, perhaps, including those that most people may not employ (but that some might). It is also nice, I think, that different people contribute, and leave their information for others to examine, and make of what they will. Also, I think this was a scientific dialogue. In which case, if something *seems* incorrect it is appropriate to say so, and provide one's logic, rather than remain silent for fear of being wrong, or creating offense. If this logic is wrong or right can be assessed, and the list has done its job. Best Peter At 08:06 PM 3/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Peter, Ashraf & List, > Whilst I appreciate the concerns you > raised regarding my previous email (and yes, > that is exactly what is typically meant by > visual angle, hence angle = > arctangent(diameter/distance), or if you use > excel: DEGREES(ATAN(diameter/distance)), I > think below you are getting a bit ahead of the > stereotypical E-Primer (typically psychologists > rather than programmers). I have occasionally > done things like what you suggest below, but > know few who would go into the whole fuss of > canvas programming, which typically requires > extra timing operations (because you log > essentially nothing unless programmed), manual > screen redraws ('waitforverticalblank'), a > second canvas to use as buffer, etc. For those > who like that sort of thing, I would be more > than willing to send my messy programs, such as > this one: > http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/UC11.es (save > as/ use different name, sorry about the Dutch > instructions), illustrating at least the above > concepts, and having a couple of nice functions > for drawing stuff to the screen. > > Most people seem to prefer doing > something easier, though. I would suggest for > the current task a slide with a number of > textobjects around a centre, measuring the > distance with your measuring tape, tweaking it > a bit, until right. Or you could use some basic > Pythagoras to get the X and Y values (as Peter > suggested) of each single degree within a > circle, write them down, put 360 textdisplays > in the slidedisplay (or, say, a fifth of that), > and hide the ones you don't need. Or drawing > all of it in mspaint (start>run>mspaint), which > takes a little while, but then again, programming would take some too. > > Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Quain >Sent: 01 August 2009 06:42 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: RE: Target position and Visual Angle > > > >Screen placement can be a pain. > >Using the six stimuli- say font characters - in a >clockface paradigm as an example. In slide >objects it is probably trial and errror using >callipers, protractor etc that allows you to >place 6 elements- say text boxes - arranged >neatly around circumference of circle so that >(having decided on an appropriate viewing >distance) the entire display subtends x degrees >visual angle, and the individual stimuli drawn in >each text box subtend y*z degrees, and are >appropriately located. The text boxes on the >slide object are just rectangles (which can be >square) with ceratin fill properties. When the >slide object draws the stimuli to screen it will >draw the necessary pixels for the dimensions (x >y) of each text (or image object), which will >include values for the background colour and for >the stimulus colour(s), size, and location. > >It makes sense to organise location of screen >elements in terms of rectangles, or arrays of >rectangles (a grid, or grids), which utilise >functions that draw collections of pixels within them. > >The top bit of this page has 2 nice diagrams of >drawing to screen, a line, and a circle. > >http://sol.gfxile.net/gp/ch06.html > >With the line, 2 or 3 pixels are active at each >vertical coordinate. Which ones is centre? >Imagine enclosing the entire grid of pixels >around the line in a rectangle and using line >function to draw in the rectangle allows precise >placement of the rectangle, and stumulus within >it (centred, left etc.; size in %)), without any >pixel drawing computation which are all handled >underneath. Same with the circle. > >The other interesting thing next on this page is >the function for circle. I don't understand C, >but ... something like this could be implemented >in VB to generate x y coordinates of points on a circle of r radius. > >So, I think that one way to get precise placement >of the clock face elements in e-prime could be to >use the canvas object and, roughly: > >- run a similar function, 'drawing' a circle >screen centred, and trap the x y values at 0, 60, >120, ... 300 degrees in an array >- populate another array with font character(s) >- feed the x y coordinate values into a loop creating rectangles >- populate the rectangle(s) with font characters >- draw to screen > >To get the correct size of the whole stimulus >display you'd just need to adjust the radius >value in the circle function, and measure the >stimulus display with callipers until the correct >visual angle was subtended. If the font stimuli >are too small (or large) adjust size property a couple of times until OK. > > > >At 09:05 PM 31/07/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Ashraf, > > Sorry for responding so late - the > > message below should be seen as answer here and > > off-list. The numbers are either centimetres > > (i.e. 1 inch is about 2.5 cm), or - more > > traditionally angles. The paper you seem to be > > reading will mention it, and if you just give a > > reference, or paste the relevant passage here, > > we would possibly be able to help you. At the > > moment, your English makes it very difficult to > > understand what you are saying. As a fellow > > non-natively English speaker, I can empathise > > with the difficulty you might be experiencing, > > but as you will most likely be wanting to > > publish in English, I believe you should try a little harder. > > > > Anyway, if the numbers are cm: > >1. Write down the size of your monitor, > >typically given in the diagonal size, in inches. > >Mine used to be 19 inch, for example, which is about 47.5 cm. > >2. Write down the resolution used in your > >experiment. This you can find under > >edit>experiment>properties>devices>display>properties > >(or something like that). It is 640x480 by > >default, which is X (number of pixels) by Y > >(number of pixels). I'll stick to this resolution for the current example. > >3. Calculate the diagonal number of pixels by > >using Pythagoras' wisdom: A^2 + B^2 = C^2 --> > >640^2 + 480^2 = C^2 --> 409600 + 230400 = 640000 --> SQRT(640000) = 800. > >4. Divide number of pixels (from 3) by number of > >centimetres (from 1) to get the number of pixels > >per centimetres: 800 / 47.5 = about 16.84 > >pixel/cm (also useful is number of cm per pixel): about 0.05 cm/pixel. > > > > > >Okay, so now we can use the fact that 1 cm > >equals about 16.84 pixels on the monitor to > >calculate the number of pixels used to create a > >0.61 by 0.41 letter: about 10 by 7. > > > >It's a bit small, though, so I am actually > >thinking that the authors use visual angle > >rather than cm - 0.41 cm is pretty small for any > >stimulus. Still, to understand visual angles > >requires the information above. Also, you will > >need to make a good guess (er.. I mean measure) > >as to how far the monitor is placed from the > >participant - typically about 40 to 60 cm. > >Visual angle refers to the angle of the > stimulus as relative to the eye, i.e: > > > > s > > /s > >Eye< s > > \s > > s > > > >..in which s is stimulus. Sorry if this becomes scrambled. > > > >Given that your screen is 40 cm away and 47.5 cm > >in diagonal width, you can calculate that the > >entire screen has a visual angle of the > >arctangent of Y / X, i.e. ATAN(47.5/40), which > >is about 38.66 degrees. As you may remember, > >43.53 degrees should be equal to both 47.5 cm > >(1) but also 800 pixels (3), you will realise 1 > >degree should be about 800 / 38.66 = 20.69 > >pixels. Therefore, if you want your stimulus to > >be 0.61 degrees, it should be about 13 pixels. > > > >Okay, I'm not the best at trigonometry, so maybe > >I made a few mistakes in the above simple > >calculus. There are, of course, age old tools > >which will give you the information without > >headache: just use your measuring tape and > >trigonometry triangle. Sit where you think a > >participant sits, put the triangle in your eye > >(note: I'm not liable for any damage) use a marker, note the angle, good. > > > >Best, > >Mich > > > > > > > >Michiel Spap? > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > >Sent: 30 July 2009 22:14 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Re: Target position > > > > > >Thank you very much , you said "do not forget to tell e-prime the > >dimensions of your screen first" . execuse me i do not understand ,... > >Tell me how could i make circle letters subtended, 0.61 by 0.41 > >exactly > >and the Flanker letter out of the Circle subtended 0.81 by 0.51. > > > >Target position differs according to six possible position ,how > > Flanker letter position differs according to two possible position : > >right/Lift,how > > > >On Jul 30, 11:40 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hello Ashraf, > > > > > > E-prime does not offer the possibility to control target positions > > > relative to each other not in terms of 'place one target a centimeter > > > left to the other, and not in terms of place 6 targets in a circle). > > > The only way to position targets is by positioning each target > > > separately. In the slide object you can place multiple targets and > > > give each target an x (horizontal) and an y (vertical) position, this > > > can be done in eather pixels from the top left corner or percentages > > > of the total screen size. > > > > > > For your setup you should make an slide object with 7 textboxes: 6 in > > > the circle and 1 to the left or right. For the circle letters figure > > > out the correct x and y positions either by simply trial and error and > > > controlling with a set triangle. Yet I also think it should be > > > possible to simply calculate the desired x and y positons if you know > > > what the dimensions of your screen are, how big your textboxes are and > > > how big the circle should be. (do not forget to tell e-prime the > > > dimensions of your screen first however... find display properties > > > under the square with the e-prime E at the top of your experiment > > > tree). For the target letter-textbox the x position (left or right) > > > should be drawn from a list that holds the value for x (in a variable > > > called targetposition for instance) and is set to the value for left > > > (ie 25%) or rigth (75%) both in half of the trials. In the properties > > > of the targettextbox set the y value to center (assuming that it > > > shoudl appear in the vertical middle of the screen) and set the x > > > value to [xtargetposition] to make it refer t1o the variable with 25% > > > or 75% in it. The content of the textboxes (i.e. the letters that > > > make up the target and distractors) should also be drawn from a list. > > > Make a list with 7 variables: distractor1 distractor2 etc and target: > > > and place your letters into this list. In the properties of the 7 > > > textboxes do not fill in a text but fill in [distractor1], > > > [distractor2], etc. For each of the trials the textboxes will now take > > > their content from (the same level of ) the list. > > > > > > Alternatively, you could make the distractor circle arrays in a > > > separate program (perhaps paint, it is more easy I think with > > > photoshop, Gimp or another programs that offers working in multiple > > > layers). Then you can use an image like this > > one:http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/images/degrees-360.gif, and place > > > it in a layer. In a new layer you can then place your letters and > > > delete the circle layer and save the image to use in in e-prime. (as > > > an imageobject in your slide). You would need to make quite a bunch of > > > these images however in order to not have the same circle of > > > distractoritems repeat too often. > > > > > > I hope that this info will help you start your experiment. > > > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Jul 30, 12:45 am, ashraf ashraf wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > . I want to make of six letters in E-prime > > , and I want to present target letter > > appears in one out of six possible positions > > in a circle and a distractor letter presented > > to the left or right of the circle, > > > > how can i maniplute Target position and distractor position . > > > > > > > > I read in some papers properties of stimuli > > as " The task display consisted of > > > > a circle (1.61 radius) of six letters > > centered at fixation, plus aperipheral > > distractor letter, presented to the left or > > right of the circle, 1.41 away from the nearest circle letter. Each of the > > > > circle letters subtended 0.61 by 0.41, and > > the distractor letter subtended 0.81 by 0.51. " > > > > what do these numbers mean and how could I control it with E-prime > > > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 09:13:01 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 02:13:01 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? Message-ID: Hi all! I got something.... Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an (unreferenced) list??? Elaborated background info: I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial (pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each time. I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray (0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for instance: negarray(0) = "negword1" negarray(1) = "negword2" etc This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute 'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- notation not working properly? Best regards, liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Tue Aug 4 10:03:28 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:03:28 +1000 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the stim sometime - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the string in each cell of your array Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. ... ' for 0 option base Dim YourArray() As String Dim s$ As String Dim LineCount As Integer Dim n As Integer ' Find out the number of lines Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 LineCount = -1 Do While Not EOF(1) LineCount = LineCount + 1 Input #1, s$ Loop Close #1 ' make the array the size of the document... ReDim YourArray(LineCount) ' Read in the stimuli Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 For n = 0 To LineCount Input #1, YourArray(n) Next n Close #1 At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi all! > >I got something.... > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an >(unreferenced) list??? > >Elaborated background info: >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each >time. > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for >instance: > >negarray(0) = "negword1" >negarray(1) = "negword2" >etc > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- >notation not working properly? > >Best regards, > >liwenna > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 10:44:25 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:44:25 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <200908041004.n74A4PhB006071@mail7.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Thank you for your quick reply Peter! I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) Thanks again! liwenna On Aug 4, 12:03?pm, Peter Quain wrote: > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > stim sometime > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > string in each cell of your array > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > ... > ' for 0 option base > Dim YourArray() As String > Dim s$ As String > Dim LineCount As Integer > Dim n As Integer > > ' Find out the number of lines > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > LineCount = -1 > Do While Not EOF(1) > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > Input #1, s$ > Loop > Close #1 > > ' make the array the size of the document... > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > ' Read in the stimuli > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > For n = 0 To LineCount > Input #1, YourArray(n) > Next n > Close #1 > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi all! > > >I got something.... > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > >(unreferenced) list??? > > >Elaborated background info: > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > >time. > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > >instance: > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > >etc > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... ?I tried it with > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] ?as > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > >notation not working properly? > > >Best regards, > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ronitibon at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:43:13 2009 From: ronitibon at gmail.com (Roni Tibon) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:43:13 +0200 Subject: Fwd: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB adapter). The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) . Any suggestions? Thanks, Roni --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SRBox.zip Type: application/zip Size: 63731 bytes Desc: not available URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:08:09 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:08:09 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <8c49c06a-5f17-458e-91d3-fbf3620b86e2@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: The script works just fine Peter! (only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word does the trick) Thanks so much! Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > Thanks again! > > liwenna > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > stim sometime > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > string in each cell of your array > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > ... > > ' for 0 option base > > Dim YourArray() As String > > Dim s$ As String > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > Dim n As Integer > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > LineCount = -1 > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > Input #1, s$ > > Loop > > Close #1 > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > Next n > > Close #1 > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > >Hi all! > > > >I got something.... > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > >Elaborated background info: > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > >time. > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > >instance: > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > >etc > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > >notation not working properly? > > > >Best regards, > > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Wed Aug 5 09:13:16 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:13:16 +1000 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: good, i hadn't run that code. there should be no timing problems because of the import routine - that is all going on before your trial procedure starts, i gather, so been and gone by the time important things are afoot. Can you post how you go about populating list from array, if you have the time? ta At 07:08 PM 5/08/2009, you wrote: >The script works just fine Peter! > >(only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word >does the trick) > >Thanks so much! > > >Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? > > > >On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > > > Thanks again! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > > stim sometime > > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > > string in each cell of your array > > > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > > ... > > > ' for 0 option base > > > Dim YourArray() As String > > > Dim s$ As String > > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > > Dim n As Integer > > > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > LineCount = -1 > > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > > Input #1, s$ > > > Loop > > > Close #1 > > > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > > Next n > > > Close #1 > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all! > > > > > >I got something.... > > > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > > > >Elaborated background info: > > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > > >time. > > > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > > >instance: > > > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > > >etc > > > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > > >notation not working properly? > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >liwenna > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Aug 5 09:22:48 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:22:48 +0100 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Roni, Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. Other than that, I can't imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could try re-installing e-prime. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roni Tibon Sent: 05 August 2009 09:43 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Fwd: SRBox problem Hi all, We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB adapter). The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) . Any suggestions? Thanks, Roni This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronitibon at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:43:03 2009 From: ronitibon at gmail.com (Roni Tibon) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:43:03 +0200 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B998CF@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Thank you for your reply! The box was added to the experimet preoperties. I followed what you suggested - running a simple experiment with just the srbox, and got the same error message. The lights did not turn off when I started the experiment. Does it mean that e-prime doesn't connect with the box? I'd love to hear from you, or any one else, if there's anything else I should check or do, before trying to uninstall the program. Thanks! Roni 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape > Hi Roni, > > Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment > Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), > rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off > and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn > off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change > nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text > display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. > > > > Other than that, I can?t imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device > installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could > try re-installing e-prime. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > *Michiel Spap?* > > *Research Fellow* > > *Perception & Action group* > > *University of Nottingham* > > *School of Psychology*** > > > > *From:* e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Roni Tibon > *Sent:* 05 August 2009 09:43 > *To:* e-prime at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Fwd: SRBox problem > > > > Hi all, > > > > We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have > recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime > using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image > SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. > > > > The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB > adapter). > > > > The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. > We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the > machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port > (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. > > > Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can > see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications > Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? > > However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK > (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) > . > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks, > > Roni > > > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Aug 5 10:52:04 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:52:04 +0100 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Roni, Bummer. No, that would indeed suggest that rather than anything in E-Prime, there seems to be something malfunctioning in the driver. Have you tried running the experiment, with the SRBox, on a different computer? I tried to create an experiment like I suggested below and (though I have no SRBox in my office) added the SRBox, BUT disabled the PST Serial Response Box driver. This caused the exact same crash as your screenshot. Re-enabling the PST Serial Response Box Driver in device manager caused my experiment to run normally (though, of course, I couldn't get very far without the actual PST box). So, you might try uninstalling this particular driver and reinstalling it. Perhaps there's a little installer for it in the E-Prime setup? The PST SRBox Driver is supposed to be where you show it, by the way. It looks ugly in its unrecognised state, but it's always been like that (if I am correctly, even under win98). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roni Tibon Sent: 05 August 2009 10:43 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: SRBox problem Hi Mich, Thank you for your reply! The box was added to the experimet preoperties. I followed what you suggested - running a simple experiment with just the srbox, and got the same error message. The lights did not turn off when I started the experiment. Does it mean that e-prime doesn't connect with the box? I'd love to hear from you, or any one else, if there's anything else I should check or do, before trying to uninstall the program. Thanks! Roni 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape Hi Roni, Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. Other than that, I can't imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could try re-installing e-prime. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roni Tibon Sent: 05 August 2009 09:43 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Fwd: SRBox problem Hi all, We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB adapter). The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) . Any suggestions? Thanks, Roni This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:18:19 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:18:19 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <200908050914.n759EON3015947@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Sure..! The code to fill the triallist from the array is actually quite some work to type out (it's probably also possible in a more automated way... i just don't trust my own codes enough to do that) but it's very easy to understand. This is the complete code I use now. (I'd use some different coloured fonts but I don't think google groups supports that). Peter's code mentioned above is also shown, but I left out the part where it counts the lines in the .txt-files and gave the arrays a fixed length, as this works just as fine for my task. I use 12 trialpairs total = 24 screens of 2 stimuluswords each and this requires 24 negative words, 24 positive words and 16 neutral words in total, as will be more explained halfway the code. Therefore the positive and negative arrays run from 0 to 23 and the neutral array runs from 0 to 15. The code begins with resetting the triallist. Then there's a lot of dimming followed by the reading of the stimwords, filling the the arrays and lastly randomizing them. This is done for each type of stimulus: negative, positive and neutral respectively. ================================ 'reset the triallist TrialList.Reset Dim negwords(23) As String Dim poswords(23) As String Dim neutwords(15) As String Dim lineword As String Dim LineCount As Integer Dim n As Integer 'fill the array negwords 'Read in the stimuli into the array negwords Open "negative.txt" For Input As #1 For n = 0 To 23 Input #1, negwords(n) Next n Close #1 'Randomize the contents of the array RandomizeArray negwords 'fill the array poswords 'Read in the stimuli into the array poswords Open "positive.txt" For Input As #2 For n = 0 To 23 Input #2, poswords(n) Next n Close #2 'Randomize the contents of the array RandomizeArray poswords 'fill the array neutwords 'Read in the stimuli Open "neutral.txt" For Input As #3 For n = 0 To 15 Input #3, neutwords(n) Next n Close #3 'Randomize the contents of the array RandomizeArray neutwords ================================= For the next part it simply uses the values in the array to fill a triallist that has four attributes. As explained in the opening post; each screen shows two stimuluswords and two screens with a total of 4 stimuluswords make up 1 trial (or 1 trialpair if you like). Subjects have to respond to one of the stimuluswords (target) and ignore the other (distractor). In an experimental trialpair the target in the probetrial is of the same valence as the distractor in the primetrial, and the NAP effect is a slowing down on the probe trial with a negative target due to the distractor in the preceding primetrial also being negative. There are four types of trials, two experimental and two control with different arrangements of postive, negative and neutral valenced words in the target and distractor 'positions'. By filling the triallist level by level with words from the three arrays control is gained over which wordtype (valence) will appear in which position. The list is called triallist and for instance " triallist.setattrib 4 " referes to the 4th level of the triallist. I use 12 total levels (so 12 trialpairs per block) but only the first 4 are shown here as the others are repeats. Trialproc is nested into triallist and contains of two slides, one for the primetrials and one for the probetrials. ================================= 'Populate the Triallist with current array values 'fill level 1 to 12 with experimental trials 'Fill level 1 of Triallist (positive control) TrialList.SetAttrib 1, "primedistractor", negwords(0) Triallist.setattrib 1, "primetarget", negwords(1) Triallist.setattrib 1, "probedistractor", neutwords(0) Triallist.setattrib 1, "probetarget", poswords(0) 'Fill level 2 of Triallist (positive experimental) TrialList.SetAttrib 2, "primedistractor", poswords(1) Triallist.setattrib 2, "primetarget", negwords(2) Triallist.setattrib 2, "probedistractor", neutwords(1) Triallist.setattrib 2, "probetarget", poswords(2) 'Fill level 3 of Triallist (negative control) TrialList.SetAttrib 3, "primedistractor", poswords(3) Triallist.setattrib 3, "primetarget", poswords(4) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probedistractor", neutwords(2) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probetarget", negwords(3) 'Fill level 4 of Triallist (negative experimental) TrialList.SetAttrib 4, "primedistractor", negwords(4) Triallist.setattrib 4, "primetarget", poswords(5) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probedistractor", neutwords(3) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probetarget", negwords(5) ======================== That's all there is to it, basically... :) Not even that hard I see now ^.^ Thanks again for your help Peter! On Aug 5, 11:13 am, Peter Quain wrote: > good, i hadn't run that code. there should be no timing problems > because of the import routine - that is all going on before your > trial procedure starts, i gather, so been and gone by the time > important things are afoot. > > Can you post how you go about populating list from array, if you have > the time? ta > > At 07:08 PM 5/08/2009, you wrote: > > >The script works just fine Peter! > > >(only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word > >does the trick) > > >Thanks so much! > > >Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? > > >On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > > > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > > > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > > > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > > > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > > > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > > > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > > > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > > > Thanks again! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > > > stim sometime > > > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > > > string in each cell of your array > > > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > > > ... > > > > ' for 0 option base > > > > Dim YourArray() As String > > > > Dim s$ As String > > > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > > > Dim n As Integer > > > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > LineCount = -1 > > > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > > > Input #1, s$ > > > > Loop > > > > Close #1 > > > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > > > Next n > > > > Close #1 > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all! > > > > > >I got something.... > > > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > > > >Elaborated background info: > > > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > > > >time. > > > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > > > >instance: > > > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > > > >etc > > > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > > > >notation not working properly? > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:26:49 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:26:49 -0700 Subject: Fill an array from an (unreferenced) list? In-Reply-To: <200908050914.n759EON3015947@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: I had a REAL long post but then realised that your question can actually be answered much simpler. Below is part of the filling code. It filles level 3 and 4 of the triallist (so trialpair 3 and 4 that are trials 5/6 and 7/8 as there are two trials (prime and probe) to each trialpair. Triallist therefore consists of 4 attirubtes primedistractor, primetarget, probedistractor and probetarget, to gain control over 2 consecutive 'trials' (two slides prime and probe on the trialproc). Poswords, neutwords and negwords are the names of the three arrays." Triallist setattrib 3 " refers to the 3rd level of triallist. 'Fill level 3 of Triallist (negative control) TrialList.SetAttrib 3, "primedistractor", poswords(3) Triallist.setattrib 3, "primetarget", poswords(4) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probedistractor", neutwords(2) Triallist.setattrib 3, "probetarget", negwords(3) 'Fill level 4 of Triallist (negative experimental) TrialList.SetAttrib 4, "primedistractor", negwords(4) Triallist.setattrib 4, "primetarget", poswords(5) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probedistractor", neutwords(3) Triallist.setattrib 4, "probetarget", negwords(5) It's really very simple, although it's a bit of a hassle to type it all out (should be able to automate it... ) but yet it's far more simple than the version I received from someone else who had done all the randomizing by hand. Thanks again for your help Peter! Best regards, liwenna On Aug 5, 11:13 am, Peter Quain wrote: > good, i hadn't run that code. there should be no timing problems > because of the import routine - that is all going on before your > trial procedure starts, i gather, so been and gone by the time > important things are afoot. > > Can you post how you go about populating list from array, if you have > the time? ta > > At 07:08 PM 5/08/2009, you wrote: > > >The script works just fine Peter! > > >(only the s$ was not allowed but simply replacing it by a normal word > >does the trick) > > >Thanks so much! > > >Now the timing question remains.... anyone experience with that? > > >On Aug 4, 12:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Thank you for your quick reply Peter! > > > > I will definitely try your suggestion! I never used external files to > > > feed info into e-prime so that's a nice thing to 'get my hands on'. > > > > However: doesn't the use of external files influence timing? > > > (anyone?). And if so: would this also be the case if the whole > > > retrieveing of info is done in the beginning of a blockproc BEFORE the > > > trials start running (i.e. in my set-up combined with your/Peter's > > > suggestion, arrays would be filled, randomised and used to fill a > > > triallist BEFORE each block of trials starts running). > > > > I think I won't have time to try it before tomorrow but I'll post back > > > when succesfull (and also when not actually ;) ) > > > > Thanks again! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 4, 12:03 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > > > > > If you want flexibility and to avoid finicky typing, perhaps you could: > > > > - type the words in text documents, 1 word to a line. you have > > > > seperate arrays for each stimulus type ... and you need to type the > > > > stim sometime > > > > - open the text documents to read, 1 at a time > > > > - run a loop, reading each line of the document and saving it as the > > > > string in each cell of your array > > > > > Something like this would allow lists of differing length to be read in. > > > > ... > > > > ' for 0 option base > > > > Dim YourArray() As String > > > > Dim s$ As String > > > > Dim LineCount As Integer > > > > Dim n As Integer > > > > > ' Find out the number of lines > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > LineCount = -1 > > > > Do While Not EOF(1) > > > > LineCount = LineCount + 1 > > > > Input #1, s$ > > > > Loop > > > > Close #1 > > > > > ' make the array the size of the document... > > > > ReDim YourArray(LineCount) > > > > > ' Read in the stimuli > > > > Open "YOURFILE.txt" For Input As #1 > > > > For n = 0 To LineCount > > > > Input #1, YourArray(n) > > > > Next n > > > > Close #1 > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/08/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all! > > > > > >I got something.... > > > > > >Does anyone know how to fill an array with words from an > > > > >(unreferenced) list??? > > > > > >Elaborated background info: > > > > >I'm working on a NAP task which demands control over two pairs of > > > > >stimuli in consecutive trials. I.E. a prime trial may show a negative > > > > >distractorword and a negative targetword and is followed by a probe > > > > >trial that shows a neutral distractorword and a positive targetword. > > > > >To put it differently: each trials consists of 2 displays with 4 > > > > >stimuli in total and control over which type of word (pos neg neutral) > > > > >appears in which position is needed. Moreover... blocks of trial > > > > >(pairs) are repeated and the stimuliwords need to be randomized each > > > > >time. > > > > > >I got this all working by using arrays. I got separate arrays for > > > > >negative, positive and neutral words and at the beginning of each > > > > >block these 3 arrays are randomised and then used to fill a triallist. > > > > >The trialpair described above for instance is one level in this list > > > > >that has four attributes (primetarget = negarray(0) primedistractor = > > > > >negarray(1), probetarget = posarray(0) and probedistractor = neutarray > > > > >(0), etc etc, with one level per trialpair. > > > > > >So far so good.... but now about filling the arrays... in my testsetup > > > > >I filled the arrays by typing out each word in the array-inline for > > > > >instance: > > > > > >negarray(0) = "negword1" > > > > >negarray(1) = "negword2" > > > > >etc > > > > > >This works fine but it means that each single word in every list has > > > > >to be written out in the inline and completed with " " at the start > > > > >and beginning. As I like my setups to be 'versatile' and easy to > > > > >adjust for later use I would think it to be more elegant (and less of > > > > >a pain in adding " -wise) if the stimuliwords could more simply be > > > > >pasted in to an (unreferenced) list and the arrays being filled from > > > > >these lists.... but I can't get this to work.... I tried it with > > > > >colon notation and unreferenced lists ( negarray(0) = [negative:0] and > > > > >with getattrib/setattrib setattrib ( "negarray(0)", [negative:0] as > > > > >well as negarray(0) = getattrib ([negative:0]) ), both in all kinds of > > > > >bracket-arrangements and with the list that contains the attribute > > > > >'negative' placed in different locations (trashthing, sessionproc, > > > > >blockproc, trialproc etc) but to no avail.... > > > > > >I'm just hoping that I'm majorly overlooking something and/or that > > > > >someone just happens to know how to do this. The task is working fine > > > > >as it is, I just think it would be more elegant if the arrays could be > > > > >filled from lists. Or could this perhaps be another instance of colon- > > > > >notation not working properly? > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >liwenna --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ronitibon at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:47:11 2009 From: ronitibon at gmail.com (Roni Tibon) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:47:11 +0300 Subject: SRBox problem In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B9992E@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, We installed everything on a different machine, and it worked perfectly! There is a Radix card installed on the original computer, and we suspect that this was the source of the problem. We will try to remove it tomorrow and see how it goes. Anyway - thanks a lot for all your help! Roni 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape > Hi Roni, > > Bummer. No, that would indeed suggest that rather than anything in E-Prime, > there seems to be something malfunctioning in the driver. Have you tried > running the experiment, with the SRBox, on a different computer? > > > > I tried to create an experiment like I suggested below and (though I have > no SRBox in my office) added the SRBox, BUT disabled the PST Serial Response > Box driver. This caused the exact same crash as your screenshot. Re-enabling > the PST Serial Response Box Driver in device manager caused my experiment to > run normally (though, of course, I couldn?t get very far without the actual > PST box). So, you might try uninstalling this particular driver and > reinstalling it. Perhaps there?s a little installer for it in the E-Prime > setup? > > > > The PST SRBox Driver is supposed to be where you show it, by the way. It > looks ugly in its unrecognised state, but it?s always been like that (if I > am correctly, even under win98). > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > *Michiel Spap?* > > *Research Fellow* > > *Perception & Action group* > > *University of Nottingham* > > *School of Psychology*** > > > > *From:* e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Roni Tibon > *Sent:* 05 August 2009 10:43 > *To:* e-prime at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: SRBox problem > > > > Hi Mich, > > Thank you for your reply! > > > > The box was added to the experimet preoperties. > > > > I followed what you suggested - running a simple experiment with just the > srbox, and got the same error message. > > The lights did not turn off when I started the experiment. Does it mean > that e-prime doesn't connect with the box? > > > > I'd love to hear from you, or any one else, if there's anything else I > should check or do, before trying to uninstall the program. > > > > Thanks! > > Roni > > 2009/8/5 Michiel Spape > > Hi Roni, > > Not much, just the following: have you actually added it to Experiment > Properties (edit>experiment>devices>add SRBOX, make sure it is actually on), > rather than, for instance, a SERIAL object? If it is, you could turn it off > and on (all lights on the SRBOX should light up) and see if the lights turn > off when you start the experiment. Make it a blank experiment, change > nothing in the SRBOX properties, and see whether adding only one text > display with infinite duration and only the SRBOX as input object turns off. > > > > Other than that, I can?t imagine much else goes wrong, unless the device > installation went awry at some point during E-Prime installation. You could > try re-installing e-prime. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > *Michiel Spap?* > > *Research Fellow* > > *Perception & Action group* > > *University of Nottingham* > > *School of Psychology* > > > > *From:* e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] *On > Behalf Of *Roni Tibon > *Sent:* 05 August 2009 09:43 > *To:* e-prime at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Fwd: SRBox problem > > > > Hi all, > > > > We're experiencing some problems with a serial response box we have > recently puchased (model 200A). When trying to run an experiment in E-Prime > using the box we get an error message numbered 10051 (see image > SRBox1.jpg). We are running E-Prime 2 on a Windows XP computer. > > > > The SRBox is connected to the actual port (and not to a serial-to-USB > adapter). > > > > The drivers are installed on the machine, and the device is well connected. > We couldn't locate any conflicting ports, and we have full privileges on the > machine. We also tried changing the "bits per second" property for the port > (under device manager) to 19,200, but it didn't help. > > > Attached is a screenshot of the device manager (SRBox2.jpg). As you can > see, the SRBox appears under "Other devices", and not under "Communications > Port". Could this be the problem? What might cause it? > > However - when I tested the box using the SRBoxTester, everything looked OK > (see attached image - SRBox3.jpg - which was taken while holding keys 2 & 3) > . > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks, > > Roni > > > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your > computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > permitted by UK legislation. > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 23:37:02 2009 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:37:02 -0700 Subject: random positions for letters Message-ID: . I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3?.TL.) and I want to present target letter appears in one of six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other letters is random thanks --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Aug 7 08:54:28 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:54:28 +0100 Subject: random positions for letters In-Reply-To: <0e1cf9b5-3d8b-48db-92da-e4588c6f2a56@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Ashraf, I believe at least two members of this list have given you helpful suggestions about what you write below. The question, however, is what exactly is your problem about it? At the moment, it sounds a bit like you want someone else to programme the task for you, or that you hope someone else already has programmed such a task and is willing to share. If that is the case, please spell that out, because as it is, I might as well write a letter to the GetBigBucks googlegroup list saying 'I want a thousand bucks on my account tomorrow' - sure I do, but, so what? If you know the very basics of E-Prime, it can't be too difficult to programme a task in which you use a SlideDisplay, add 6 textdisplays to that, all in a circle, write [L1] in the first ... [L6] in the last, use a list with 6 added attributes (L1 to L6), and just fill one of them, for every line, with the specific letter in the specific position (say, 6 positions x 26 letters is 156 cases, or use a nested list with the letters so you merely have 6). And so on. However, where exactly are you stuck in all this? Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 07 August 2009 00:37 To: E-Prime Subject: random positions for letters . I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3....TL.) and I want to present target letter appears in one of six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other letters is random thanks This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From morgan.prust at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 17:39:06 2009 From: morgan.prust at gmail.com (Morgan) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:39:06 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? Message-ID: I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). Would any of you know how to do this? Many thanks, Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From morgan.prust at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 17:43:53 2009 From: morgan.prust at gmail.com (Morgan) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:43:53 -0700 Subject: Summation across blocks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello all, I just posted this to the group: I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). Would any of you know how to do this? Based on this thread, I was wondering if any of you might have an idea about this question. Thanks so much! --Morgan Prust On Jun 22, 4:03?pm, KKat wrote: > Hi Anne-Wil and Victor, > I will try your suggestions and post a reply :) > Thank you! > Kathy > > On Jun 18, 6:52?am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey kat! > > > Is this the same task still or a new adventure? > > I understand that the summation within each block is working. Right? > > > Then there are two options (I think): > > > A. right now you have a separate summationvariable used within each > > block, for instance sumblock1 to sumblock4 ? In that case you can > > insert a line like : c.setattrib "sumblock2", sumblock1 ?at the > > beginning of each new block... but it would make more sense to just > > have 1 single summation attribute to run trough all four blocks, > > right? > > > which brings me to option > > > B: you allready have one single summation attribute but it is set to 0 > > somewhere in the beginning of each block (probably due to copy/pasting > > of one existing block into 4 total blocks). In that case simply > > identify a line like either totalwin = 0 or c.setattrib "totalwin", 0 > > and remove it from blocks 2, 3 and 4. > > > Alternatively you can send me the file again and I'll see if i can > > find it. > > > Greets, > > > AW > > > On Jun 18, 2:06 am, KKat wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > I have designed a task with 4 blocks. I currently have a running total > > > of "money" won within each block, however, I would like to alter this > > > so that.... > > > > - the starting value for "total won" in Block2 is the total from the > > > last trial of Block1 > > > - the starting value for "total won" in Block3 is the total from the > > > last trial of Block2 > > > - the starting value for "total won" in Block4 is the total from the > > > last trial of Block3 > > > > Thank you! > > > Kathy --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 12:12:52 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 05:12:52 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: <5c3250df-9aa9-4da5-9cae-d2ae4c6b322e@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Morgan, Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab of the script window. After you've generated the script a script window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: ======================== dim correctcounter as integer dim errorcounter as integer dim rtcorrectcounter as integer dim rterrorcounter as integer dim omitedcounter as integer dim trialcounter dim finalpercentcorrect as integer dim finalpercenterror as integer dim finalpercentomitted as integer dim meancorrectrt as integer dim meanerrorrt as integer ========================== Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on the answer given. The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as errortrials. ========================== trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 Select case slidedisplay.resp case "" omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter case else if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then correctcounter = correctcounter +1 c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner end if if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter end if end select ======================= The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. Place something like this in an inline that is located on the sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all to the edat file. ============================= finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt ========================== Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following (place a text like this in a text-object). ========================== You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. ========================== Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will all work as intended but it should get you started. Good luck on it! liwenna On Aug 7, 7:39?pm, Morgan wrote: > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > Would any of you know how to do this? > > Many thanks, > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From morgan.prust at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 17:20:37 2009 From: morgan.prust at gmail.com (Morgan J Prust) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:20:37 -0400 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Liwenna, Thanks so much for this thoughtful and extensive reply! I'll give it a shot and let you know. Thanks again, Morgan On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:12 AM, liwenna wrote: > > Hey Morgan, > > Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole > experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab > of the script window. After you've generated the script a script > window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of > that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now > declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > > ======================== > dim correctcounter as integer > dim errorcounter as integer > dim rtcorrectcounter as integer > dim rterrorcounter as integer > dim omitedcounter as integer > dim trialcounter > > dim finalpercentcorrect as integer > dim finalpercenterror as integer > dim finalpercentomitted as integer > dim meancorrectrt as integer > dim meanerrorrt as integer > ========================== > > Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to > insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on > the answer given. > The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the > counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later > on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is > no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is > updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case > else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct > and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters > and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames > makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is > alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- > construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as > errortrials. > > ========================== > trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 > > Select case slidedisplay.resp > > case "" > omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 > c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter > > case else > if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then > > correctcounter = correctcounter +1 > c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter > rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt > c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner > > end if > > if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then > > errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 > c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter > rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt > c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter > > end if > > end select > > ======================= > The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the > answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make > the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. > > Place something like this in an inline that is located on the > sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not > entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... > but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- > tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all > to the edat file. > > ============================= > finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter > finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter > finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter > meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter > meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect > c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted > c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt > c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt > > ========================== > > Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following > (place a text like this in a text-object). > > ========================== > You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've > answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% > incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the > trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered > correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've > answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. > ========================== > > Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done > more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to > actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will > all work as intended but it should get you started. > > Good luck on it! > > liwenna > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Morgan Prust > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pquain at une.edu.au Sun Aug 9 17:10:28 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:10:28 +1000 Subject: random positions for letters In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01B99C76@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Ashraf You probably have this sorted out by now, but after writing about positioning your stimuli using the canvas object (and Mich rightly pointing out that this might be a difficult solution to implement) I thought more about how this could be done, and worked out the (...one of the :) algorithm. Anyway i've built a little VB utility that computes the x-y coordinates for different size native display resolution (640*480; 800*600 etc.) for the upper left corners of 6 squares (of side 'S') that centre on screen centred circumference at 60, 120, ... 360 degrees of circle with radius 'r'. Let me know if it would be of any use and will send it along. You can run it on any computer and copy down the coordinates which could then be entered into the x / y properties dialogue of each of your slide objects, along with width, to situate them in clockface at correct degree. But, if you change the display resolution of the monitor you are going to be testing on to the resolution e-prime will use (set in experiment properties, but default, i think, at 640*480) and run the utility on that you can then adjust the size of the stimulus display very quickly, while measuring the elements in terms of the calculations you have done for visual angle relative to viewing distance. Then you'll get the correct coordinates to proceed. ~Peter At 06:54 PM 7/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ashraf, > I believe at least two members of this > list have given you helpful suggestions about > what you write below. The question, however, is > what exactly is your problem about it? At the > moment, it sounds a bit like you want someone > else to programme the task for you, or that you > hope someone else already has programmed such a > task and is willing to share. If that is the > case, please spell that out, because as it is, > I might as well write a letter to the > GetBigBucks googlegroup list saying 'I want a > thousand bucks on my account tomorrow' - sure I do, but, so what? > If you know the very basics of E-Prime, > it can't be too difficult to programme a task > in which you use a SlideDisplay, add 6 > textdisplays to that, all in a circle, write > [L1] in the first ... [L6] in the last, use a > list with 6 added attributes (L1 to L6), and > just fill one of them, for every line, with the > specific letter in the specific position (say, > 6 positions x 26 letters is 156 cases, or use a > nested list with the letters so you merely have > 6). And so on. However, where exactly are you stuck in all this? > >Best, >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >Sent: 07 August 2009 00:37 >To: E-Prime >Subject: random positions for letters > > > >. I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3....TL.) and I want >to present target letter appears in one of >six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other >letters is random >thanks > > > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 20:37:51 2009 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:37:51 -0700 Subject: random positions for letters In-Reply-To: <200908091710.n79HAhdZ015355@mail7.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Hi peter tbank you very much for your reply,my research about perceptual load,i would like to send me your VB utility for scientific purposes. ashraf On Aug 9, 8:10 pm, Peter Quain wrote: > Hi Ashraf > > You probably have this sorted out by now, but > after writing about positioning your stimuli > using the canvas object (and Mich rightly > pointing out that this might be a difficult > solution to implement) I thought more about how > this could be done, and worked out the (...one > of the :) algorithm. Anyway i've built a little > VB utility that computes the x-y coordinates for > different size native display resolution > (640*480; 800*600 etc.) for the upper left > corners of 6 squares (of side 'S') that centre on > screen centred circumference at 60, 120, ... 360 > degrees of circle with radius 'r'. > > Let me know if it would be of any use and will send it along. > > You can run it on any computer and copy down the > coordinates which could then be entered into the > x / y properties dialogue of each of your slide > objects, along with width, to situate them in > clockface at correct degree. But, if you change > the display resolution of the monitor you are > going to be testing on to the resolution e-prime > will use (set in experiment properties, but > default, i think, at 640*480) and run the utility > on that you can then adjust the size of the > stimulus display very quickly, while measuring > the elements in terms of the calculations you > have done for visual angle relative to viewing > distance. Then you'll get the correct coordinates to proceed. > > ~Peter > > At 06:54 PM 7/08/2009, you wrote: > > >Hi Ashraf, > > I believe at least two members of this > > list have given you helpful suggestions about > > what you write below. The question, however, is > > what exactly is your problem about it? At the > > moment, it sounds a bit like you want someone > > else to programme the task for you, or that you > > hope someone else already has programmed such a > > task and is willing to share. If that is the > > case, please spell that out, because as it is, > > I might as well write a letter to the > > GetBigBucks googlegroup list saying 'I want a > > thousand bucks on my account tomorrow' - sure I do, but, so what? > > If you know the very basics of E-Prime, > > it can't be too difficult to programme a task > > in which you use a SlideDisplay, add 6 > > textdisplays to that, all in a circle, write > > [L1] in the first ... [L6] in the last, use a > > list with 6 added attributes (L1 to L6), and > > just fill one of them, for every line, with the > > specific letter in the specific position (say, > > 6 positions x 26 letters is 156 cases, or use a > > nested list with the letters so you merely have > > 6). And so on. However, where exactly are you stuck in all this? > > >Best, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > >Sent: 07 August 2009 00:37 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: random positions for letters > > >. I want to make a circle of six letters, (L1,L2,L3....TL.) and I want > >to present target letter appears in one of > >six possible positions in the circle . also the positions of other > >letters is random > >thanks > > >This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > >may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > >you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > >University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 21:33:45 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:33:45 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Morgan, I spotted at least 1 typo allready... dim omitedcounter as integer -> dim omitTedcounter as integer there's bound to be more of those... >.> On Aug 9, 7:20?pm, Morgan J Prust wrote: > Liwenna, > > Thanks so much for this thoughtful and extensive reply! I'll give it a shot > and let you know. > > Thanks again, > > Morgan > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:12 AM, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Morgan, > > > Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole > > experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab > > of the script window. After you've generated the script a script > > window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of > > that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now > > declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > > > ======================== > > dim correctcounter as integer > > dim errorcounter as integer > > dim rtcorrectcounter as integer > > dim rterrorcounter as integer > > dim omitedcounter as integer > > dim trialcounter > > > dim finalpercentcorrect as integer > > dim finalpercenterror as integer > > dim finalpercentomitted as integer > > dim meancorrectrt as integer > > dim meanerrorrt as integer > > ========================== > > > Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to > > insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on > > the answer given. > > The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the > > counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later > > on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is > > no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is > > updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case > > else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct > > and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters > > and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames > > makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is > > alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- > > construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as > > errortrials. > > > ========================== > > trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 > > > Select case slidedisplay.resp > > > case "" > > omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 > > c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter > > > case else > > if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then > > > correctcounter = correctcounter +1 > > c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter > > rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner > > > end if > > > if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then > > > errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 > > c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter > > rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter > > > end if > > > end select > > > ======================= > > The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the > > answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make > > the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. > > > Place something like this in an inline that is located on the > > sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not > > entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... > > but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- > > tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all > > to the edat file. > > > ============================= > > finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter > > finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter > > finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter > > meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter > > meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted > > c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt > > c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt > > > ========================== > > > Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following > > (place a text like this in a text-object). > > > ========================== > > You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've > > answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% > > incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the > > trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered > > correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've > > answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. > > ========================== > > > Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done > > more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to > > actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will > > all work as intended but it should get you started. > > > Good luck on it! > > > liwenna > > > On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 12:32:34 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:32:34 -0700 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: After testing in e-prime I have a number of additions to make. I sent a corrected .es2 file to Morgan but for everyone else who (in the future) references this thread I post the changes here too: There are quite a number of typo's in the variable names I wrote... I didn't keep a list of them, but anyone trying this script will encounter them and I excuse for that in advance.. ;) Then: The inline that calculates the final stats also has a number of lines that are supposed to write these stats to the edat file... but it turns out that e-prime won't do that if there is no proc and/or list connected to the inline. The solution is simple: add a (one level, no additional attributes) feedbacklist at the end of the experiment, connected to a feedbackproc and on this procedure place the feedbackslide and the inline that does the calculations. For convenience I added another z to these attributenames to keep things organised more or less neatly in your edatfile. The final calculations will be shown in the last level of the edatfile. Additionally the c.setattrib "zztrialcounter", trialcounter should also be added to this last inline. Lastly I forgot to add 'x 100' to the calculations of the % trials correct, incorrect and omitted... New second inline is as follows: ================= finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter * 100 finalpercenterror = errorcounter / trialcounter * 100 finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter * 100 meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter c.setattrib "zztrialcounter", trialcounter c.setattrib "zzfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect c.setattrib "zzfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror c.setattrib "zzfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted c.setattrib "zzmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt c.setattrib "zzmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt =================== with of course the feedbacktext also being adjusted to: =================== You've finished [zztrialcounter] trials and of these trials you've answered [zzfinalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [zzfinalpercenterror]% incorrectly and you did not answer [zzfinalpercentomitted]% of the trials. The average reactiontime on the trials you've answered correctly was [zzmeancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [zzmeanerrorrt] milliseconds. ================== Regards, Anne-Wil On Aug 9, 11:33 pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey Morgan, > > I spotted at least 1 typo allready... > dim omitedcounter as integer -> dim omitTedcounter as integer > > there's bound to be more of those... >.> > > On Aug 9, 7:20 pm, Morgan J Prust wrote: > > > Liwenna, > > > Thanks so much for this thoughtful and extensive reply! I'll give it a shot > > and let you know. > > > Thanks again, > > > Morgan > > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:12 AM, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey Morgan, > > > > Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole > > > experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab > > > of the script window. After you've generated the script a script > > > window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of > > > that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now > > > declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > > > > ======================== > > > dim correctcounter as integer > > > dim errorcounter as integer > > > dim rtcorrectcounter as integer > > > dim rterrorcounter as integer > > > dim omitedcounter as integer > > > dim trialcounter > > > > dim finalpercentcorrect as integer > > > dim finalpercenterror as integer > > > dim finalpercentomitted as integer > > > dim meancorrectrt as integer > > > dim meanerrorrt as integer > > > ========================== > > > > Now at the end of a trial (or after an answer is given) you need to > > > insert an inline that updates the error- an correctcounter based on > > > the answer given. > > > The following code should do this: firstly it simply updates the > > > counter that keeps the total number of trials which we'll need later > > > on. Then it determines whether or not a response is given. If there is > > > no response (slidedisplay.resp = "") then the omittedcounter is > > > updated and written to the edatfile. If a response is given (case > > > else) it goes on to determine whether or not this response is correct > > > and based on that, it updates either the correct- or the errcounters > > > and writes them to the edatfile. The z in front of the attributenames > > > makes them all appear at the far right of the edat file (which is > > > alphabetically ordered) so you can easily find them. This select case- > > > construction is to make it so that omitted trials are not counted as > > > errortrials. > > > > ========================== > > > trialcounter = trialcounter + 1 > > > > Select case slidedisplay.resp > > > > case "" > > > omittedcounter = omittedcounter + 1 > > > c.setattrib "zomittedcounter", omittedcounter > > > > case else > > > if slidedisplay.acc = 1 then > > > > correctcounter = correctcounter +1 > > > c.setattrib "zcorrectcounter", correctounter > > > rtcorrectcounter = rtcorrectcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > > c.setattrib "zrtcorrectcounter", rtcorrectcoutner > > > > end if > > > > if slidedisplay.acc = 0 then > > > > errorcounter = errorcounter + 1 > > > c.setattrib "zerrorcounter", errorcounter > > > rterrorcounter = rterrorcounter + slidedisplay.rt > > > c.setattrib "zrterrorcounter", rterrorcounter > > > > end if > > > > end select > > > > ======================= > > > The above script updates the counters for each trial based on the > > > answer given. At the end of the experiment we should of course make > > > the counters go to percentages and the rt's should be averaged. > > > > Place something like this in an inline that is located on the > > > sessionproc after (all) the trialproc(s) have been run (I'm not > > > entirely sure whether the / for dividing will work just like that... > > > but you should be able to work that out). Firstly it updates the user- > > > tab variables based on the counters and the second part writes it all > > > to the edat file. > > > > ============================= > > > finalpercentcorrect = correctcounter / trialcounter > > > finalpercenterror = erorrounter / trialcounter > > > finalpercentomitted = omittedcounter / trialcounter > > > meancorrectrt = rtcorrectcounter / correctcounter > > > meanerrorrt = rterrorcounter / errorcounter > > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentcorrect", finalpercentcorrect > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercenterror", finalpercenterror > > > c.setattrib "zfinalpercentomitted", finalpercentomitted > > > c.setattrib "zmeancorrectrt", meancorrectrt > > > c.setattrib "zmeanerrorrt", meanerrorrt > > > > ========================== > > > > Lastly you can show a slide that tells the subject the following > > > (place a text like this in a text-object). > > > > ========================== > > > You've finished [trialcounter] trials and of these trials you've > > > answered [finalpercentcorrect] % correctly, [finalprcenterror]% > > > incorrectly and you did not answer [finalpercentomitted]% of the > > > trials. Your average reactiontime on the trials you've answered > > > correctly was [meancorrectrt] milliseconds, and for the trials you've > > > answered incorrectly your average reactiontime was [meanerrorrt]. > > > ========================== > > > > Ok.... now all the above is to give you an idea of what should be done > > > more or less.... I did it top of my head and have no opportunity to > > > actually run it in e-prime so I am not entirely sure whether it will > > > all work as intended but it should get you started. > > > > Good luck on it! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From jgfetter at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 14:55:19 2009 From: jgfetter at gmail.com (Joe) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:19 -0700 Subject: reading data from biopac Message-ID: Hi all, I am a new member to this group and this is my first post. I am a student at Saginaw Valley and recently started a job in the psychology department as a computer lab tech. My boss wants me to start playing around with biopac and to design a program in e-prime that will record the readings from the biopac system in addition to all the usual e- prime data logging. I have the computer running e-prime connected to the biopac hardware via a standard 25 pin d-sub cable. However, no matter what I do, I cannot get the e-prime program to record any data. I used the readport function and tried several ports in case I had mistakenly used the wrong base address. However, the data was always the same for each trial. One base address gave me all readouts of 120, another all 255, etc... None of them actually transmitted any useful data. I looked through the archives of old posts in this group and found a similar case that provided some suggestions. The problem is that some of these suggestions involved changing bios settings for the port and before I go that route (Jumping through hoops to get IT to allow us to access the system), I wanted to know if the problem was resolved using that method or if not, what might be a better option? I appreciate any help anyone has to offer, Joe --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From umaprabhu at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 15:55:33 2009 From: umaprabhu at gmail.com (Puma) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:55:33 -0700 Subject: Creating Push Buttons in Eprime like in VB Message-ID: Hi All, I need to design an experiment in Eprime, where I need to create VB like Push Buttons . Is it possible to create Push buttons in Eprime ? If yes , is there any document or sample code , then please share with me. Any pointers will be helpful. Thanks Puma --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 20:00:23 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:00:23 -0700 Subject: Creating Push Buttons in Eprime like in VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Puma! E-prime doesn't provide push buttons in the way VB does... (at least, to the best of my knowledge that it..... although e-basic and visual basic seem to be related...) There are some options, though. Firstly: e-prime is able to display 'windows styled boxes' that pose a question or prompt for an answer and have pushbuttons at the bottem (the 'ok' 'cancel' type) which you can fully customize to show your desired text, buttontexts etc. You should find info on these in the e- basic help section found in e-prime, and/or in the user guide. I digged up an screenshot from a task I did a few years ago and used only these types of boxes: http://images.redial.net/screenshot%20awaim%20.png As you can see it's possible to fully customize the box, from the text in the upper bar (AWAIM 1.2 in this case) to the question, to the options on the pushbuttons. The colourtheme (silverish) was the default theme set on the specific computer where this shot was taken. Alternatively: (if you don't want to be restricted to the limited space these boxes offer without look strange) you could work out a way to draw them on the canvas. Two useful example scripts would be this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? Mode=View&SampleID=39) which shows two ways on how to collect response based on the location of a mouseclick on the canvas. I suggest that you use the canvas method (not the dohittest) and perhaps combine that with info from this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/ samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=9) which (supposedly, I never saw it in action) shows you more about the option's you have with drawing on the canvas. It will take some fiddling around but if you're a littelbit experienced with how coding works you should be able to make it so that it looks and functions like a pushbutton and even shows in the desired location too.... ;) I think it should be something like a rectangle within a rectangle that colours darker and/or shows a dotted- line square when selected. Both options will be rather labout intensive though... so let's hope that someone else has even better suggestions.... Good luck, liwenna On Aug 11, 5:55?pm, Puma wrote: > Hi All, > > I need to design an experiment in Eprime, where I need to create VB > like Push Buttons . Is it possible to create Push buttons in Eprime ? > If yes , is there any document or sample code , then please share with > me. > Any pointers will be helpful. > > Thanks > Puma --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 20:03:46 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:03:46 -0700 Subject: Creating Push Buttons in Eprime like in VB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Puma! E-prime doesn't provide push buttons in the way VB does... (at least, to the best of my knowledge that it..... although e-basic and visual basic seem to be related...) There are some options, though. Firstly: e-prime is able to display 'windows styled boxes' that pose a question or prompt for an answer and have pushbuttons at the bottem (the 'ok' 'cancel' type) which you can fully customize to show your desired text, buttontexts etc. You should find info on these in the e- basic help section found in e-prime, and/or in the user guide. I digged up an screenshot from a task I did a few years ago and used only these types of boxes: http://images.redial.net/screenshot%20awaim%20.png As you can see it's possible to fully customize the box, from the text in the upper bar (Awaim v1.2 in this case) to the question, up to the options on the pushbuttons. The colour theme (silverish) was the default theme set on the specific computer where this shot was taken. Alternatively: (if you don't want to be restricted to the limited space these boxes offer without looking strange) you could work out a way to draw them on the canvas. Two useful example scripts would be this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? Mode=View&SampleID=39) which shows two ways on how to collect response based on the location of a mouseclick on the canvas. I suggest that you use the canvas method (not the dohittest) and perhaps combine that with info from this one (http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/ samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=9) which (supposedly, I never saw it in action) shows you more about the option's you have with drawing on the canvas. It will take some fiddling around but if you're a little bit experienced with how coding works you should be able to make it so that it looks and functions like a pushbutton and even shows in the desired location too.... ;) I think it should be something like a rectangle within a rectangle that colours darker and/or shows a dotted- line square when selected. Both options will be rather labour intensive though... so let's hope that someone else has even better suggestions.... Good luck, liwenna On Aug 11, 5:55?pm, Puma wrote: > Hi All, > > I need to design an experiment in Eprime, where I need to create VB > like Push Buttons . Is it possible to create Push buttons in Eprime ? > If yes , is there any document or sample code , then please share with > me. > Any pointers will be helpful. > > Thanks > Puma --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ekoren2 at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 08:55:27 2009 From: ekoren2 at gmail.com (Eli Koren) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:55:27 +0300 Subject: repeat sound Message-ID: Hi there! I want to repeat sound file if the user press "space" and if the user press "UP" key then next trial and if he press "Down" key then the previous trial. Thanks Eli --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.b.mccoy at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:19:08 2009 From: david.b.mccoy at gmail.com (David McCoy) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:19:08 -0700 Subject: Slide Number Message-ID: Hey Everyone, I am developing a psychological study that simply displays a series of pictures of famous people and famous places. I would like (on each slide) for there to be a number indicated what the slide number is. For example, picture one will have the number one, slide 2 with the number 2, etc. Is there a way of doing this? Any help would be wonderful. Thanks! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:16:43 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:16:43 -0700 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <946e2dec-4a4a-4752-8981-12390240d9e7@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hello David, I think you need to give us a bit more info. Does every picture have it's own slide-object? Or is there one slideobject that has a different image in it for every consecutive 'trial'? And are the images randomized or do they appear in a fixed order? Best regards, liwenna On Aug 12, 5:19?pm, David McCoy wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > I am developing a psychological study that simply displays a series of > pictures of famous people and famous places. I would like (on each > slide) for there to be a number indicated what the slide number is. > For example, picture one will have the number one, slide 2 with the > number 2, etc. Is there a way of doing this? Any help would be > wonderful. Thanks! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From david.b.mccoy at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:30:13 2009 From: david.b.mccoy at gmail.com (David McCoy) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:30:13 -0400 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <6814dba7-2794-4ecd-8c47-40fa65837809@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, I actually just figured it out. It was a pretty simple solution I was just not thinking enough. Thanks for the help though! Have a good day. David B. McCoy Research Assistant - Olson Lab Department of Psychology Temple University - College of Liberal Arts dmccoy at temple.edu 215-204-1708 Center for Cognitive Neuroscience Department of Psychology University of Pennsylvania dmccoy at psych.upenn.edu --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 18:37:25 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:37:25 -0700 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <1d21eee20908120930j19839315qe8bc2b035bc262dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Glad to hear! A good day to you too! On Aug 12, 6:30?pm, David McCoy wrote: > Hi Liwenna, > > I actually just figured it out. It was a pretty simple solution I was just > not thinking enough. Thanks for the help though! Have a good day. > David B. McCoy > Research Assistant - Olson Lab > Department of Psychology > Temple University - College of Liberal Arts > dmc... at temple.edu > 215-204-1708 > > Center for Cognitive Neuroscience > Department of Psychology > University of Pennsylvania > dmc... at psych.upenn.edu --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cadeni01 at louisville.edu Thu Aug 13 18:37:40 2009 From: cadeni01 at louisville.edu (cdenicola) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:37:40 -0700 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime Message-ID: Hi all, I'm currently trying to program a habituation experiment in E-Prime. I need it to display a stimulus when Enter is pressed, start recording looking time when 5 is pressed, and stop recording looking time when 5 is released, then one second later removing the stimulus. I also need to program it to calculate a sliding window to detect when they've habituated, but that's for another time. Here's some of the script: dim doAdd as boolean lookAwayTime = -1 lookAwayStart = -1 trialTimer = MovieDisplay1.FirstFrameTime 'loop to measure looking time via keyboard do set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then if doAdd = false then lookStart = theResponseData.RTTime lookAwayTime = 0 Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 pressed " & theResponseData.RTTime doADD = true end if if theResponseData = "{-5}" then if doAdd = true then lookAwayStart= theResponseData.RTTime lookTime = theResponseData.RTTime-lookStart habitArray(trialCount).AddObservation lookTime Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 Released " & theResponseData.RTTime Display.Canvas.text 500, 0, "looking time: " & habitArray (trialCount).total doAdd = false end if end select loop I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out with >>>> Also, am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? Thanks Chris --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From neurodrum at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 18:52:27 2009 From: neurodrum at gmail.com (Andrew Hill) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:52:27 -0700 Subject: CPT? Message-ID: hi folks, i've been looking for a while, but haven't been able to find any existing examples available for standard CPT tests like the TOVA, or IVA, AB-X, etc. does anyone have one of these written in eprime that they would be willing to share? my object is to find something that matches (in design) one of the in- use CPTs that has already been validated by lots of literature, and are in clinical use, as opposed to creating my own from scratch that might have different parameters, etc. thanks, andrew --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Fri Aug 14 03:54:05 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:54:05 +1000 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime In-Reply-To: <41244fe3-947e-417b-b2a0-f06fc4d39f1d@n11g2000yqb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris Not sure about this, and no e-prime to check it out on - so all suggestions dubious, and code suggestions are just that. Also, my understanding of e-prime object model is very muddy, so description below shouldn't be trusted too much. I think KeyBoard.History.Count is the instances of TYPES of response - that is, the number of ResponseData objects in the collection of all keyboard responsedata objects (e.g., RESP, RT, CRESP etc) - not a 'value' of a response (such as a key press of "5"). Values are held by the object. They are not 'the' object. From e-basic help: -------------------------------------- Dim nSpaceBarEntries As Long Dim nIndex As Long Dim theResponseData As ResponseData For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count 'retrieve a single ResponseData object from the collection 'of ResponseData objects stored in the InputHistoryManager Set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) If Not theResponseData Is Nothing Then If theResponseData.RESP = "{SPACE}" Then nSpaceBarEntries = nSpaceBarEntries + 1 End If End If -------------------------------- So, Keyboard.History.Count isn't something to *modify* with an expression (such as "set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1))... it is something, a collection of Keyboard objects (that itself is a member of the larger collection of InputMasks) to loop through the sub-objects of (.RT, .RESP etc), and get the values held by that sub-object. .Count is the number of sub-objects, and they each have a numeric index in the collection, as well as their name (e.g., .RT). So it is a property to access, not to set. Access allows you to then grab the value held by any particular sub-object. From e-basic help: ----------------------------- 'the StimDisplay object enables keyboard and mouse responses; ' keyboard is the first InputMask listed (see Duration/Input tab), ' so the keyboard response is stored as the first item in the ' InputMasks collection; ' mouse is the second InputMask listed, so the mouse response is the ' second item in the InputMasks collection ------------------------------------------------------------------- So your code : set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then .. is trying to modify the collection count i'd say, and then running a malformed conditional (no value for the ResponseData, compared to a string) and doesn't like it. The operator error could be where you have the "=" e-prime is looking for a dot operator ???? anyway ... Something like this might be on the right track. Dim nIndex As Integer For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) if theResponseData.RESP = {5} then ...your code ... if theResponseData.RESP = {-5} then if doAdd = true then ... etc... best Peter At 04:37 AM 14/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I'm currently trying to program a habituation experiment in E-Prime. I >need it to display a stimulus when Enter is pressed, start recording >looking time when 5 is pressed, and stop recording looking time when 5 >is released, then one second later removing the stimulus. I also need >to program it to calculate a sliding window to detect when they've >habituated, but that's for another time. Here's some of the script: > >dim doAdd as boolean >lookAwayTime = -1 >lookAwayStart = -1 >trialTimer = MovieDisplay1.FirstFrameTime > >'loop to measure looking time via keyboard > >do > set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) > >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then > if doAdd = false then > lookStart = theResponseData.RTTime > lookAwayTime = 0 > Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 > pressed " & theResponseData.RTTime > doADD = true > end if > if theResponseData = "{-5}" then > if doAdd = true then > lookAwayStart= theResponseData.RTTime > lookTime = theResponseData.RTTime-lookStart > >habitArray(trialCount).AddObservation lookTime > Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 > Released " & theResponseData.RTTime > Display.Canvas.text 500, 0, > "looking time: " & habitArray >(trialCount).total > doAdd = false > end if > end select >loop > >I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out >with >>>> >Also, am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? > >Thanks >Chris > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pquain at une.edu.au Fri Aug 14 04:49:42 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:49:42 +1000 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime In-Reply-To: <200908140354.n7E3sXrA000838@mail6.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: sorry, don't want to misinform: I said that "Keyboard.History.Count isn't something to *modify* with an expression (such as "set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1))..." - it certainly is! Looping through that index is how you get hold of the different attributes that are in the collection. It is just the conditional falling over that is the problem. ~Peter At 01:54 PM 14/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Chris > >Not sure about this, and no e-prime to check it out on - so all >suggestions dubious, and code suggestions are just that. Also, my >understanding of e-prime object model is very muddy, so description >below shouldn't be trusted too much. > >I think KeyBoard.History.Count is the instances of TYPES of response >- that is, the number of >ResponseData objects in the collection of all keyboard responsedata >objects (e.g., RESP, RT, CRESP etc) - >not a 'value' of a response (such as a key press of "5"). Values are >held by the object. They are not 'the' object. > > From e-basic help: >-------------------------------------- > >Dim nSpaceBarEntries As Long >Dim nIndex As Long >Dim theResponseData As ResponseData >For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count > 'retrieve a single ResponseData object from the collection > 'of ResponseData objects stored in the InputHistoryManager >Set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) > If Not theResponseData Is Nothing Then > If theResponseData.RESP = "{SPACE}" Then > nSpaceBarEntries = nSpaceBarEntries + 1 > End If > End If >-------------------------------- > >So, Keyboard.History.Count isn't something to *modify* with an >expression (such as "set theResponseData = >Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1))... it is something, a >collection of Keyboard objects (that itself is a member of the >larger collection of InputMasks) to loop through the sub-objects of >(.RT, .RESP etc), and get the values held by that sub-object. .Count >is the number of sub-objects, and they each have a numeric index in >the collection, as well as their name (e.g., .RT). So it is a >property to access, not to set. Access allows you to then grab the >value held by any particular sub-object. > > From e-basic help: >----------------------------- >'the StimDisplay object enables keyboard and mouse responses; >' keyboard is the first InputMask listed (see Duration/Input tab), >' so the keyboard response is stored as the first item in the >' InputMasks collection; >' mouse is the second InputMask listed, so the mouse response is the >' second item in the InputMasks collection >------------------------------------------------------------------- > >So your code : >set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) > >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then > >.. is trying to modify the collection count i'd say, and then >running a malformed conditional (no value for the ResponseData, >compared to a string) and doesn't like it. The operator error could >be where you have the "=" e-prime is looking for a dot operator ???? anyway ... > >Something like this might be on the right track. > >Dim nIndex As Integer >For nIndex = 1 To Keyboard.History.Count >set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(nIndex) >if theResponseData.RESP = {5} then >...your code ... >if theResponseData.RESP = {-5} then > if doAdd = true then >... etc... > >best >Peter > > > >At 04:37 AM 14/08/2009, you wrote: > >>Hi all, >> >>I'm currently trying to program a habituation experiment in E-Prime. I >>need it to display a stimulus when Enter is pressed, start recording >>looking time when 5 is pressed, and stop recording looking time when 5 >>is released, then one second later removing the stimulus. I also need >>to program it to calculate a sliding window to detect when they've >>habituated, but that's for another time. Here's some of the script: >> >>dim doAdd as boolean >>lookAwayTime = -1 >>lookAwayStart = -1 >>trialTimer = MovieDisplay1.FirstFrameTime >> >>'loop to measure looking time via keyboard >> >>do >> set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) >> >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then >> if doAdd = false then >> lookStart = theResponseData.RTTime >> lookAwayTime = 0 >> Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 >> pressed " & theResponseData.RTTime >> doADD = true >> end if >> if theResponseData = "{-5}" then >> if doAdd = true then >> lookAwayStart= theResponseData.RTTime >> lookTime = theResponseData.RTTime-lookStart >> >>habitArray(trialCount).AddObservation lookTime >> Display.Canvas.text 0, 0, "5 >> Released " & theResponseData.RTTime >> Display.Canvas.text 500, 0, >> "looking time: " & habitArray >>(trialCount).total >> doAdd = false >> end if >> end select >>loop >> >>I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out >>with >>>> >>Also, am I making this more complicated than it needs to be? >> >>Thanks >>Chris >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kim.janssens1 at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 12:20:26 2009 From: kim.janssens1 at gmail.com (kimio) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:20:26 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming Message-ID: Hello group, I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? All help is welcome... thanks, Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From liwenna at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 00:51:01 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:51:01 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Kim, Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the experiment you need help with. In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough refresh rate. I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the way. Good luck with it! liwenna On Aug 14, 2:20?pm, kimio wrote: > Hello group, > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > All help is welcome... > > thanks, > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From kim.janssens1 at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 06:25:54 2009 From: kim.janssens1 at gmail.com (Kim Janssens) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:25:54 +0200 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <5a3d10f7-b186-413f-8e24-ac3e8a9fcf3d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hello liwenna, Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will post my question again. greetz, Kim ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed for subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. 2009/8/15 liwenna > > Hello Kim, > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > experiment you need help with. > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > refresh rate. > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the > way. > > Good luck with it! > > liwenna > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > Hello group, > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > > All help is welcome... > > > > thanks, > > Kim > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 08:19:02 2009 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:19:02 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <71491e900908162325l3913e943j7c7e9b56e19f2178@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hey, I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Prime-program. It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal presentation. Greetz, liwenna On Aug 17, 8:25?am, Kim Janssens wrote: > Hello liwenna, > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will post > my question again. > > greetz, > Kim > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed for > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > experiment you need help with. > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > refresh rate. > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the > > way. > > > Good luck with it! > > > liwenna > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > Hello group, > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > > > All help is welcome... > > > > thanks, > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 17 20:03:19 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:03:19 -0400 Subject: Sound to signal a key press In-Reply-To: <58b9b5a5-d195-4987-b5ff-730e2d788378@c2g2000yqi.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: River, (I have been off on holiday for a few weeks, just getting back into the swing of things...) Hmm, I just posted a response to a problem very much like this in the PST Forum (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3323-8-1.aspx ). In short, yes, it is possible to do what you wish, though not simple (as I hinted in my earlier reply). It will require the use of Extended Input, plus some script, Clock.Read, and possibly .IsPending(), although .RT, .RTTime, or .RESP should work fine in your case. So, suppose you want your stimulus image to remain for 2500 ms regardless of when the subject responds. You would set its Duration to 0 and its Time Limit to 2500. You would then follow that with inline script, and the script would take care of filling in the 2500 ms as well as detecting any response and then sounding a beep. You can probably fill in the details from there. For more info, please look at Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime (for the Extended Input example), the Clock.Read and InputMask.IsPending topics in the online E-Basic Help, and the "Process Responses Template" and "Clear Stimulus-Leave More Time for Response" samples downloadable from PST. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 7/24/2009 07:01 AM Friday, you wrote: >Firstly, thankyou to Rinus and David for your speedy replies! I have >be unable to look at your suggestions until now however I have managed >to get an InLine version to work whereby an image is displayed, a >keypress response is made and then, once the image is no longer >displayed (it is displayed for a set duration regardless of responses >made by the participant) the beep will sound to inform the participant >that a response was made. >Although this is on the right track I was hoping to be able to cause a >beep to be emitted at the same time as a response key is pressed, >therefore allowing you to press the key again (while the stimulus is >still being displayed) if the beep didn't sound to signal that a >response had been recorded. > >Do either of you know if this might be possible? I can't seem to find >a way to put the sound and the image together in a way that the sound >is contingent on a response to the image being made as well as >allowing the sound to occur AS the response is being made. > >Thanks again in advance, > >River > > > >On Jun 29, 7:23 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Are these self-paced trials, with no time limit? If so, you could > > just put a SoundOut with a beep.wav after whatever object you use to > > present your stimulus & get response, e.g., > > > > - TrialProc > > - StimSlide > > - BeepSound > > > > If trials are self-paced but with a time limit, then you could use an > > If-Then either to make a beep in script as Rinus sugessts (although > > the E-Basic beep command does not work on some computers), or with a > > label to skip past the BeepSound, e.g. > > > > - TrialProc > > - StimSlide > > - CheckResponseScript > > (If StimSlide.RT = 0 Then goto NoResponseLabel) > > - BeepSound > > - NoResponseLabel > > > > If trials are not self-paced then things get considerably trickier. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 6/27/2009 10:23 AM Saturday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >I presume the length is not infinite (otherwise the stimulus will not > > >go away untill they press).. > > >Might it be helpful just to do a simple beep with inline? Something in > > >the line of: > > > > >if TextDisplay1.RESP <> "" then beep > > > > >(TextDisplay or whatever you're using that is). > > > > >Kind regards, > > > > >Rinus > > > > >On Jun 26, 4:57 pm, River wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > This seems like a potentially simple thing to do but I can't figure it > > > > out-is it possible to make the computer or SR box emit a beep when a > > > > response key is pressed? > > > > Participants will be viewing stimuli on a computer screen and > > > > responding to it by pressing one of two buttons on the SR box (they > > > > will press a key on every trial). I'm looking at reaction times so I > > > > don't want them to have to look down to make sure they have made a > > > > response (i.e. light flashes by the keys aren't ideal) however its > > > > been mentioned that a noise to confirm a response has been recorded > > > > would be useful.... > > > > > > Does anyone know if this is possible or should I just ask them to > > > > press the keys down firmly!? I'm currently running version 1 of > > > > Eprime. > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > River --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 17 20:27:40 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:27:40 -0400 Subject: Randomizing multiple lists In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I haven't seen any responses to this. Did you ever get this sorted out? Did you do the Nested Lists example in Appedix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 7/27/2009 03:11 PM Monday, you wrote: >Hi! >I'm relatively new at using E-Prime, so, this may be a simple >question. > >We are developing a program whereby two Blocks of trials needs to >randomly select items from 2 different lists. There are 3 lists in >total. This may help: > >List A >List B >List C > >Block 1: randomly select list items from List A and List B > >Block 2: randomly select list items from List B and List C (without >repeating any items that were chosen from list B in Block 1). > >I understand general randomization etc, but don't know where to start >in terms of adding in a list. >Suggestions? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From godotworkaround at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 13:42:58 2009 From: godotworkaround at googlemail.com (vinz) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:42:58 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <7ddb5874-56e3-4800-a003-356f4de57e43@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hello group, I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan station. Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following slide (presented for about 500ms). For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like this: 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 instead of: 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: WritePort &H378,1 WritePort &H378,0 WritePort &H378,3 WritePort &H378,0 WritePort &H378,7 WritePort &H378,0 If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to give, I would greatly appreciate. Thank you, vinz. On Aug 17, 9:19?am, liwenna wrote: > Hey, > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it:http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > presentation. > > Greetz, > > liwenna > > On Aug 17, 8:25?am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > Hello liwenna, > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will post > > my question again. > > > greetz, > > Kim > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed for > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > experiment you need help with. > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you use > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > refresh rate. > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along the > > > way. > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > Hello group, > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show the > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a word > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with this? > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > thanks, > > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 14:25:45 2009 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:25:45 -0400 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the "WritePort &H378, 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. ben On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz wrote: > > Hello group, > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > station. > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > this: > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > instead of: > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > WritePort &H378,1 > WritePort &H378,0 > > WritePort &H378,3 > WritePort &H378,0 > > WritePort &H378,7 > WritePort &H378,0 > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > Thank you, > vinz. > > > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > presentation. > > > > Greetz, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will > post > > > my question again. > > > > > greetz, > > > Kim > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed > for > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you > use > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along > the > > > > way. > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show > the > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a > word > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > this? > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > Kim > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:32:50 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:32:50 -0400 Subject: Generating a performance summary at task completion? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Morgan, By now you no doubt have this sorted out, but for the record I just want to mention that you might be able to use global Summation Objects instead of a bunch of separate variables to keep track of all your statistics for a later summary. Please see the Summation Object topic in the online E-Basic Help. You would still need script similar to what liwenna has shown in order to update the Summation Objects and to manage the final summary slide. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/8/2009 08:12 AM Saturday, liwenna wrote: >Hey Morgan, > >Basically what you need are variables that run accros the whole >experiment instead of per trial. You can define these in the user tab >of the script window. After you've generated the script a script >window is opened that has two tabs to be chosen from in the bottom of >that window: full (shows the script) and user (which is empty). Now >declare the variables you need in that user-tab. For instance: > >======================== >dim correctcounter as integer >dim errorcounter as integer >dim rtcorrectcounter as integer >dim rterrorcounter as integer >dim omitedcounter as integer >dim trialcounter > >dim finalpercentcorrect as integer >dim finalpercenterror as integer >dim finalpercentomitted as integer >dim meancorrectrt as integer >dim meanerrorrt as integer >========================== >Good luck on it! > >liwenna > > > >On Aug 7, 7:39 pm, Morgan wrote: > > I'm attempting to program an n-back task in E-Prime and am currently > > trying to figure out how to have the task generate a performance > > summary to be displayed at the completion of the task, which would > > include % of correct responses, % of incorrect responses, reaction for > > correct responses, reaction for incorrect responses, and the number of > > omitted trials across the entire task (in other words, not after each > > trial or each block, but at the end of all of the trials/blocks). > > Would any of you know how to do this? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Morgan Prust --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From david.b.mccoy at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 14:55:04 2009 From: david.b.mccoy at gmail.com (David McCoy) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:55:04 -0700 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <4a8abfc9.1808c00a.60ae.4dafSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: The solution: This is really simple. I just needed a number on each slide of a picture that way I could keep track of what picture/object was up on each slide during a recall session with a subject. So, since my trials were sequential all I did was make another attribute called number, had a list of numbers from 1-whatever, then in the slide presentation just had a text blurp that called in that attribute [numbers]. That way, going through each of the pictures there would be a corresponding number. I thought this was the easiest way. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:58:44 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:58:44 -0400 Subject: Habituation with E-Prime In-Reply-To: <41244fe3-947e-417b-b2a0-f06fc4d39f1d@n11g2000yqb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Chris, At 8/13/2009 02:37 PM Thursday, you wrote: > set theResponseData = Keyboard.History(Keyboard.History.Count - 1) > >>>> if theResponseData = "5" then >I keep getting an "operator mismatch error" on the line pointed out >with >>>> Just offhand, theResponseData is an object, it does not itself have a value and so it makes no sense to compare it to another value such as "5", hence the "operator mismatch error". You have to compare "5" to some appropriate property of your theResponseData object, e.g., If theResponseData.RESP = "5" Then Please see the InputDevice.History topic in the online E-Basic Help, also any basic introductory text in object-oriented programming. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:48:12 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:48:12 -0400 Subject: repeat sound In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eli, The problem of returning to a previous trial has been addressed before, and as far as I know there is no good way in E-Prime to return to a previous trial. For that you might want to try Empirisoft's MediaLab, as long as you do not need millisecond accuracy. Not too hard to repeat the sound within a trial or to move to the next trial after a key press, but no sense answering those questions if you'll just get stuck on the problem of returning to a previous trial. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/12/2009 04:55 AM Wednesday, you wrote: >Hi there! >I want to repeat sound file if the user press "space" and if the >user press "UP" key >then next trial and if he press "Down" key then the previous trial. > >Thanks >Eli --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Aug 18 14:50:46 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:50:46 -0400 Subject: Slide Number In-Reply-To: <1d21eee20908120930j19839315qe8bc2b035bc262dc@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: David, OK, for the benefit of everyone please do tell us your solution! Thanks, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/12/2009 12:30 PM Wednesday, you wrote: >Hi Liwenna, > >I actually just figured it out. It was a pretty simple solution I >was just not thinking enough. Thanks for the help though! Have a good day. >David B. McCoy >Research Assistant - Olson Lab >Department of Psychology >Temple University - College of Liberal Arts >dmccoy at temple.edu >215-204-1708 > > >Center for Cognitive Neuroscience >Department of Psychology >University of Pennsylvania >dmccoy at psych.upenn.edu --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From godotworkaround at googlemail.com Tue Aug 18 17:31:14 2009 From: godotworkaround at googlemail.com (vinz) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:31:14 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <3345e4a50908180725h404ce07fr2dd26d980ae5e43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you Ben, I will try it out tomorrow, and then let you know. Thank you again. vinz. On Aug 18, 3:25?pm, ben robinson wrote: > maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the "WritePort &H378, > 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. > ben > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz wrote: > > > > > Hello group, > > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > > station. > > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > > this: > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > > instead of: > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > > WritePort &H378,1 > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > WritePort &H378,3 > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > WritePort &H378,7 > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > > Thank you, > > vinz. > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > >http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > > presentation. > > > > Greetz, > > > > liwenna > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will > > post > > > > my question again. > > > > > greetz, > > > > Kim > > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed > > for > > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you > > use > > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along > > the > > > > > way. > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show > > the > > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a > > word > > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > > this? > > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 17:46:22 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:46:22 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays Message-ID: Hi all, I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop pretty fast. This is how it looks. Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect response Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. Repeat 2500 times. I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the task to 500 ms. I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive delay. Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks, Conrad Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Aug 20 18:48:06 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:48:06 -0400 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <79e6792f-a33b-4857-b04f-acafbdf8eae4@c29g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Conrad, Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which answers the first question. Next question, are you running this under Windows XP, or Vista? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi all, > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop >pretty fast. This is how it looks. >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect >response >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. >Repeat 2500 times. > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each >audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the >task to 500 ms. > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive >delay. > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > >Thanks, >Conrad >Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 16:22:29 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:22:29 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <4a8d9a6c.5244f10a.30b5.0d5aSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am running XP. I see from other discussions streaming is the way to go. I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't help. I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh rate and that helped a little. Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can figure out how to do that. Thanks for the help! On Aug 20, 1:48?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Conrad, > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > answers the first question. ?Next question, are you running this > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >Hi all, > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. ?My samples loop > >pretty fast. ?This is how it looks. > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > >response > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > >Repeat 2500 times. > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > >audio file. ?This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > >task to 500 ms. > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > >delay. > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > >Thanks, > >Conrad > >Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From godotworkaround at googlemail.com Sat Aug 22 13:38:53 2009 From: godotworkaround at googlemail.com (vinz) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:38:53 -0700 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: <842f5044-7169-4ebd-8cf5-eed60fadae3e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Ben, tried to add 'Sleep x' in between the two 'WritePort' but unfortunately it did not do the trick. It actually did with 'Sleep 40', but considering my stimuli (type 1) last about 6-7ms that delay is obviously infeasible. I can still use the data (getting the event table, correcting it with a custom script in matlab and then epoching in Neuroscan according to the modified event table file) even though, as you may understand, it is kind of a pain.. In fact, given that there must be a way to get the triggers sent right and neat in the first place, it feels quite annoying to have to correct them after each session. Once again, any help on how to send triggers for short-lasting stimuli (we are experiencing problems for any length<100ms) would be much appreciated. Thank you, vinz. On Aug 18, 6:31?pm, vinz wrote: > Thank you Ben, > I will try it out tomorrow, and then let you know. > > Thank you again. > vinz. > > On Aug 18, 3:25?pm, ben robinson wrote: > > > maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the "WritePort &H378, > > 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. > > ben > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz wrote: > > > > Hello group, > > > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > > > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > > > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > > > station. > > > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > > > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > > > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > > > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > > > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > > > this: > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > > > instead of: > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > > > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > > > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > > > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > > > WritePort &H378,1 > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > WritePort &H378,3 > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > WritePort &H378,7 > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > > > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > > > Thank you, > > > vinz. > > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > > >http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-the-E-Pr.... > > > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to the design > > > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > > > presentation. > > > > > Greetz, > > > > > liwenna > > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh rate is really > > > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when building, I will > > > post > > > > > my question again. > > > > > > greetz, > > > > > Kim > > > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of experiments designed > > > for > > > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which deal with timing > > > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. Only other thing > > > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make sure that you > > > use > > > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently high enough > > > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime (forgive me if I'm > > > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > > > building and post back here with problems that you encounter along > > > the > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I want to show > > > the > > > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime them with a > > > word > > > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > > > this? > > > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > Kim --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sat Aug 22 14:01:55 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:01:55 +1000 Subject: subliminal priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: to get 6-7ms duration your monitor must be running at ~ 142Hz - that's a fast refresh! You must be using canvas (I assume, because you are using WritePort commands). Anyway, say your monitor is set to 100Hz. You should be able to copy from offscreen canvas at the start of a refresh, and follow the copy command with a writeport then Sleep for 7ms, then zero the port, and fit it all in the 10ms refresh. I thought Neuroscan equipment liked pulsewidths of a few ms, and my old lab had no worries with 7ms duration pulses. At 11:38 PM 22/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Ben, > >tried to add 'Sleep x' in between the two 'WritePort' but >unfortunately it did not do the trick. > >It actually did with 'Sleep 40', but considering my stimuli (type 1) >last about 6-7ms that delay is obviously infeasible. >I can still use the data (getting the event table, correcting it with >a custom script in matlab and then epoching in Neuroscan according to >the modified event table file) even though, as you may understand, it >is kind of a pain.. > >In fact, given that there must be a way to get the triggers sent right >and neat in the first place, it feels quite annoying to have to >correct them after each session. > >Once again, any help on how to send triggers for short-lasting stimuli >(we are experiencing problems for any length<100ms) would be much >appreciated. > >Thank you, >vinz. > >On Aug 18, 6:31 pm, vinz wrote: > > Thank you Ben, > > I will try it out tomorrow, and then let you know. > > > > Thank you again. > > vinz. > > > > On Aug 18, 3:25 pm, ben robinson wrote: > > > > > maybe you you'd want to sleep for 10 ms before sending the > "WritePort &H378, > > > 0"... just a suggestion, won't necessarily fix it. > > > ben > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:42 AM, vinz > wrote: > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > I am current running a subliminal ERP study. Everything is fine as far > > > > as the implementation of subliminal stimuli is concerned but we are > > > > experiencing problems with the triggers from E-Prime to the Neuroscan > > > > station. > > > > > > Specifically, we have noticed that any time E-Prime sends a trigger > > > > relative to a slide presented for a time between 100ms and 20ms (we > > > > don't have anything in between this two values, so I cannot be more > > > > specific) the trigger is sent twice, also affecting the following > > > > slide (presented for about 500ms). > > > > > > For the sake of clearness, the event table in Neuroscan looks like > > > > this: > > > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 |1| 3 |3| 3 7 7 3 3 1 > > > > > > instead of: > > > > > > 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 3 3 7 7 1 > > > > > > where '1' is the trigger code for the subliminal stimulus, and |1|,|3| > > > > are actually doubled. In fact the latencies for the first 1 and the > > > > second |1| are equal. The same happens for 3 and |3|. > > > > > > Being most likely a problem caused by incorrect trigger settings in > > > > the InLine procedures, here it is what we are using: > > > > > > WritePort &H378,1 > > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > > > WritePort &H378,3 > > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > > > WritePort &H378,7 > > > > WritePort &H378,0 > > > > > > If anyone is familiar with E-Prime triggers and has a suggestion to > > > > give, I would greatly appreciate. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > vinz. > > > > > > On Aug 17, 9:19 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > I looked around a bit and I think the link in this page downloads a > > > > > estudio file with subliminal exposure in it: > > > >http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5417962/Instructions-for-running-th > e-E-Pr.... > > > > > It's part of some book... and it also mentions some other usefull > > > > > things. I think there really isn't all that much special to > the design > > > > > of a subliminal task... simply make the exposureduration on the > > > > > primeslide really short (dependent on the exact nature of your task) > > > > > and ussually you'll want to show a mask right after your prime but > > > > > this is, again, dependent on the nature of your task. Then consider > > > > > options like enabling preloading and disabling showafter (all should > > > > > be explained in the mentioned chapter in the user-guide), and make > > > > > sure that your hardware is actually capable of subliminal > > > > > presentation. > > > > > > > Greetz, > > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 8:25 am, Kim Janssens wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello liwenna, > > > > > > > > Thank you for your fast reply: the advice on the refresh > rate is really > > > > > > helpful! If I come across any specific problems when > building, I will > > > > post > > > > > > my question again. > > > > > > > > greetz, > > > > > > Kim > > > > > > ps: do you know where i could find an example of > experiments designed > > > > for > > > > > > subliminal priming? they could help me on the way.. > > > > > > > > 2009/8/15 liwenna > > > > > > > > > Hello Kim, > > > > > > > > > Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what part of designing the > > > > > > > experiment you need help with. > > > > > > > In general I think you should start with reading chapter 3 and > > > > > > > appendix A of the user guide (top of my head), which > deal with timing > > > > > > > issues, obviously important for subliminal priming. > Only other thing > > > > > > > that I can think of now is the monitor issue... make > sure that you > > > > use > > > > > > > a monitor (when doing the experiment) that is actually capable of > > > > > > > subliminal-range exposure time i.e. has a sufficiently > high enough > > > > > > > refresh rate. > > > > > > > > > I'm guessing that you're relatively new to e-prime > (forgive me if I'm > > > > > > > wrong there). I think it's the most easiest if you simply start > > > > > > > building and post back here with problems that you > encounter along > > > > the > > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > Good luck with it! > > > > > > > > > liwenna > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 2:20 pm, kimio wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > > > > > > > I want to design an experiment in eprime in which I > want to show > > > > the > > > > > > > > participants a set of pictures and subliminally prime > them with a > > > > word > > > > > > > > in between the pictures.. Does anyone have any experience with > > > > this? > > > > > > > > All help is welcome... > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > Kim > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 16:13:07 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:13:07 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <1a10ce28-e36a-43f1-ae94-a936ce329d38@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? Thanks again. Conrad On Aug 21, 11:22?am, Conrad wrote: > I am running XP. ?I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > go. > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > help. > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > rate and that helped a little. > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > figure out how to do that. > > Thanks for the help! > > On Aug 20, 1:48?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Conrad, > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > answers the first question. ?Next question, are you running this > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > >Hi all, > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. ?My samples loop > > >pretty fast. ?This is how it looks. > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > >response > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > >audio file. ?This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > >task to 500 ms. > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > >delay. > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > >Thanks, > > >Conrad > > >Madison, WI --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 24 16:41:56 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:41:56 +1000 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: there's probably some much simpler way to do this that i don't know about, but you could do it with code. Need to Dim mySoundBuffers As SoundBufferCollection Set mySoundBuffers = new SoundBufferCollection mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer1, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer2, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer3, , , 'Spin through the collection and debug.print the name Dim r As RteObject Dim nIndex As Long For nIndex = 1 To newCollection.Count Set r = newCollection.Item(nIndex) If Not r Is Nothing Then Display.Canvas.Text 5, nIndex * 20, "Collection object " &_ "# " & nIndex & ": " & r.Name End If Next 'nIndex At 02:13 AM 25/08/2009, you wrote: >I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- >Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? > >So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? > >Thanks again. >Conrad > > > >On Aug 21, 11:22 am, Conrad wrote: > > I am running XP. I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > > go. > > > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > > help. > > > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > > rate and that helped a little. > > > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > > figure out how to do that. > > > > Thanks for the help! > > > > On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Conrad, > > > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > > answers the first question. Next question, are you running this > > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop > > > >pretty fast. This is how it looks. > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > > >audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > > >task to 500 ms. > > > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > > >delay. > > > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Conrad > > > >Madison, WI > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 24 16:57:19 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:57:19 +1000 Subject: audio files and delays Message-ID: Whooops .. thought I was clicking save, not send... better finish this now, then :) there's probably some much simpler way to do this that i don't know about, but you could do it with code. Need to do something with SoundBuffer I think ... no idea whether this will work, but might be one track to look at for preloading audio info into memory. 'make a collection of soundbuffers Dim mySoundBuffers As SoundBufferCollection Set mySoundBuffers = new SoundBufferCollection 'add buffers to hold as many audio files as needed for a trial mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer1, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer2, , , mySoundBuffers.Add sBuffer3, , , 'set the file for the buffer to hold sBuffer1.FileName = "myWavFile-1.wav" sBuffer2.FileName = "myWavFile-2.wav" sBuffer3.FileName = "myWavFile-3.wav" 'load the buffer into memory sBuffer1.Load sBuffer2.Load sBuffer3.Load ..... 'play the appropriate file If cond = "whatever" Then sBuffer1.Play ElseIf cond = "another" Then sBuffer2.Play Else sBuffer3.Play End If ~Peter At 02:13 AM 25/08/2009, you wrote: >I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- >Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? > >So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? > >Thanks again. >Conrad > > > >On Aug 21, 11:22 am, Conrad wrote: > > I am running XP. I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > > go. > > > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > > help. > > > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > > rate and that helped a little. > > > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > > figure out how to do that. > > > > Thanks for the help! > > > > On Aug 20, 1:48 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Conrad, > > > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > > answers the first question. Next question, are you running this > > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. My samples loop > > > >pretty fast. This is how it looks. > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > > >audio file. This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > > >task to 500 ms. > > > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > > >delay. > > > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Conrad > > > >Madison, WI > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From stephanedebrito at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 14:19:37 2009 From: stephanedebrito at gmail.com (sphdsdb) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:19:37 -0700 Subject: Array problem Message-ID: Dear all, I am trying to programme an emotional stroop experiment, but I am facing a problem with the array declared in the inline I think. I have downloaded the NoRepeat.es file from the pst website: http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic324-5-1.aspx This file presents 4 different lists of words, each with 5 words. The inline RandomizeStim makes sure that no words from the same list are presented on two consecutive trials. In the inline, there is this line for the array: 'Declare an array of 20 slots to hold 5 stim of each of 4 types. Slot 0 is unused. Dim arrStim(20) As Integer I wanted to present 4 lists, each including 12 words. So, I have changed this line to: 'Declare an array of 48 slots to hold 12 stim of each of 4 types. Slot 0 is unused. Dim arrStim(48) As Integer I have also added the 28 additional levels needed in the TrialList. When I do this, my experiment works fine, but it takes about 5 seconds for the instructions to appear. Then, I have tried to present 4 lists, each including 24 words. So, I have changed this line to: 'Declare an array of 96 slots to hold 24 stim of each of 4 types. Slot 0 is unused. Dim arrStim(96) As Integer I have added the 48 additional levels in the TrialList. In that case, the experiment does not even start. The screen stays blank?. At the moment, I don?t have the hardware key plugged in, as one of my colleagues is using it. Can it be that the problem has nothing to do with the array and that this is caused by the absence of the hardwarekey? Any help is much appreciated. stephane --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From blweidler at davidson.edu Wed Aug 26 18:41:54 2009 From: blweidler at davidson.edu (Blaire) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:41:54 -0700 Subject: Removing {ENTER} from screen display of echo Message-ID: In part of the program I need participants to be able to submit four word answers based on one picture. They need to submit each answer separately, and NOT be able to edit it once they've pressed enter. But, they do need to be able to SEE each of the other three answers while they're typing the fourth, and then ultimately all four before they "submit" that screen and move to the next slide object. We've been able to get the .RESP written into an attribute and then displayed on the screen and make this work, but since {ENTER} is set to the termination of the echo box, the screen displays the entered PLUS the {ENTER}. Earlier, we were able to get the program to do a certain command based on a .RESP + "{ENTER}", but when we tried to prevent it from displaying the {ENTER} by using a - "{ENTER}", but that won't run due to the error "type mismatch". Any ideas how to display what has previously been captured in an echo on to the screen WITHOUT whatever key was used to terminate the echo box? Thanks for any help! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Aug 27 13:12:33 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:12:33 +0100 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Conrad et al., I've worked quite a bit with audio files, and pre-buffering in the style of Peter is usually the way to go for me (never used the .add and some differences but this looked very neat). However, I do not think this (problem) should be happening in the first place, unless you use a sort of manual loop (or jump-label, for instance). Do you have these 2500 repeats in a loop, or using many sequences? The thing is that E-Prime should always pre-buffer sound-files if used in a slide (in e-basic help: "E-Studio automatically generates calls to SoundBuffer.Load for the buffer identified as SoundOut.ActiveBuffer for each SoundOut object in the experiment"), and although I have never believed E-Prime can do what NO professional music programme, to my knowledge, can (i.e. play sound with 0 latency) even with sub-quality soundcards (e.g. those with ASIO drivers) and directx engine, the latency should not be... growing. This typically suggests a memory or processing 'leak', such as when you leave response collections unfinished, etc. I therefore suggest rather than looking at the sound, to take a look at your design and programming (of the rest). To give you some indication: I'm currently doing a tapping tasks which should involve about 1200 taps that are to be made in sync with tone (i.e. subject hears tones at about 1 Hz and responds with the spacebar or whatever at similar Hz, trying to minimise tap-to-response asynchrony). So I do just about what Peter suggested (i.e. preload with script, play with script). I find that the onset of the playing is pretty accurate, certainly not shifting, but sometimes, my 50 ms stimuli are cut off (easily detectable as they have a fade-in and out, so that you hear a tick if the fade-in is not played correctly. I've recreated this design in several ways (such as described, or doing buffer.load once, long before the sound is played, etc), more importantly also using normal sound-objects (in or not in slide-objects), but the cut-offs as described above is always present. Anyway, the quality of the sound is not crucial to my experiment, nor is the timing as such as long as these errors are equally distributed over conditions, but just a (sorry) long-winded story to say that I'm sure that buffering errors occur... but they should not be as you describe (growing). Should you find no problematic issue with the rest of your design, I have one remaining tip: make 1 audio file with silences and samples pre-mixed, instead of > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > >response > > >Slide 4: 100 ms 1. make soundbuffer etc as Peter described, make it at least 1101 ms 2. fill the buffer with one file: 350 ms of audio clip, followed by 50 ms of silence, followed by 600 ms of audio clip, followed by 100 ms of silence, load and 3. play the file (it will keep playing following this command) 4. show slides 1 -4 with whatever you want. Sometimes this method takes quite a bit of time and is, granted, extremely inflexible. But, download a trial version of CoolEdit (these days called adobe audition), and you will be able to get your silences and sounds beyond millisecond accurate: if your system plays at 44.1 Khz, timing accuracy should be correct at about 0.02 ms level. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Conrad Sent: 24 August 2009 17:13 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: audio files and delays I have not figured out how to cache. Getting the sample script from E- Prime is taking longer than I hoped. Does anybody have it? So this issue is unresolved. Any other thoughts? Thanks again. Conrad On Aug 21, 11:22?am, Conrad wrote: > I am running XP. ?I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > go. > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > help. > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > rate and that helped a little. > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > figure out how to do that. > > Thanks for the help! > > On Aug 20, 1:48?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Conrad, > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > answers the first question. ?Next question, are you running this > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > >Hi all, > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. ?My samples loop > > >pretty fast. ?This is how it looks. > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > >response > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > >audio file. ?This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > >task to 500 ms. > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > >delay. > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > >Thanks, > > >Conrad > > >Madison, WI This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From nkpiano at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 13:42:50 2009 From: nkpiano at gmail.com (nkpiano) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:42:50 -0700 Subject: GE scanner recognizing Eprime Message-ID: Our GE scanner automatically opens "Brainwave" even with the Lumina box set to "Eprime" mode and with the Eprime paradigm up and running on the paradigm PC. Our paradigm PC is NOT a laptop and is in a room separate from the MR scanner. Does anyone know how to access and run Eprime from the scanner console? Thank you. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From cmwarnke at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 15:36:28 2009 From: cmwarnke at gmail.com (Conrad) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:36:28 -0700 Subject: audio files and delays In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF01DA6D1D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks Michael, Peter, and David. I didn't have a loop or a jump. My problem had a much simpler solution for me, use E-Prime 1! The word on the street is EP2 is currently a bit buggy with audio files. I wrote up an identical program in EP1 and I got my delays down to an average of 7 or 8 ms per slide, which is pretty dang good. Two other tips to share is adding a pre-release to the slide prior to the audio slide. The pre-release duration is the same as the slide duration. Also I closed other programs before running the task. That's it. No inlines necessary. Conrad On Aug 27, 8:12?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Conrad et al., > ? ? ? ? I've worked quite a bit with audio files, and pre-buffering in the style of Peter is usually the way to go for me (never used the .add and some differences but this looked very neat). However, I do not think this (problem) should be happening in the first place, unless you use a sort of manual loop (or jump-label, for instance). Do you have these 2500 repeats in a loop, or using many sequences? The thing is that E-Prime should always pre-buffer sound-files if used in a slide (in e-basic help: "E-Studio automatically generates calls to SoundBuffer.Load for the buffer identified as SoundOut.ActiveBuffer for each SoundOut object in the experiment"), and although I have never believed E-Prime can do what NO professional music programme, to my knowledge, can (i.e. play sound with 0 latency) even with sub-quality soundcards (e.g. those with ASIO drivers) and directx engine, the latency should not be... growing. This typically suggests a memory or processing 'leak', such as when you leave response collections unfinished, etc. I therefore suggest rather than looking at the sound, to take a look at your design and programming (of the rest). > ? ? ? ? To give you some indication: I'm currently doing a tapping tasks which should involve about 1200 taps that are to be made in sync with tone (i.e. subject hears tones at about 1 Hz and responds with the spacebar or whatever at similar Hz, trying to minimise tap-to-response asynchrony). So I do just about what Peter suggested (i.e. preload with script, play with script). I find that the onset of the playing is pretty accurate, certainly not shifting, but sometimes, my 50 ms stimuli are cut off (easily detectable as they have a fade-in and out, so that you hear a tick if the fade-in is not played correctly. I've recreated this design in several ways (such as described, or doing buffer.load once, long before the sound is played, etc), more importantly also using normal sound-objects (in or not in slide-objects), but the cut-offs as described above is always present. Anyway, the quality of the sound is not crucial to my experiment, nor is the timing as such as long as these errors are equally distributed over conditions, but just a (sorry) long-winded story to say that I'm sure that buffering errors occur... but they should not be as you describe (growing). > > ? ? ? ? Should you find no problematic issue with the rest of your design, I have one remaining tip: make 1 audio file with silences and samples pre-mixed, instead of > > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms > > 1. make soundbuffer etc as Peter described, make it at least 1101 ms > 2. fill the buffer with one file: 350 ms of audio clip, followed by 50 ms of silence, followed by 600 ms of audio clip, followed by 100 ms of silence, load and > 3. play the file (it will keep playing following this command) > 4. show slides 1 -4 with whatever you want. > > Sometimes this method takes quite a bit of time and is, granted, extremely inflexible. But, download a trial version of CoolEdit (these days called adobe audition), and you will be able to get your silences and sounds beyond millisecond accurate: if your system plays at 44.1 Khz, timing accuracy should be correct at about 0.02 ms level. > > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Conrad > Sent: 24 August 2009 17:13 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: audio files and delays > > I have not figured out how to cache. ?Getting the sample script from E- > Prime is taking longer than I hoped. ?Does anybody have it? > > So this issue is unresolved. ?Any other thoughts? > > Thanks again. > Conrad > > On Aug 21, 11:22?am, Conrad wrote: > > I am running XP. ?I see from other discussions streaming is the way to > > go. > > > I've tried changing the SoundDeviceOutput properties but that didn't > > help. > > > I have changed the duration of the slide to multiples of the refresh > > rate and that helped a little. > > > Next up for my game plan is to cache these audio files, if I can > > figure out how to do that. > > > Thanks for the help! > > > On Aug 20, 1:48?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > Conrad, > > > > Since you mention streaming mode, you must be using EP2, which > > > answers the first question. ?Next question, are you running this > > > under Windows XP, or Vista? > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hi all, > > > > >I am developing a task which includes audio files. ?My samples loop > > > >pretty fast. ?This is how it looks. > > > >Slide 1: 350 ms with audio clip (1 of 12 audio files) > > > >Slide 2: 50 ms of black screen buffer > > > >Slide 3: 600 ms with audio clip (same audio file every time); collect > > > >response > > > >Slide 4: 100 ms of black screen buffer. > > > >Repeat 2500 times. > > > > >I have noticed that i get a pretty significant delay 150 ms with each > > > >audio file. ?This delay seems to grow quite a bit by the end of the > > > >task to 500 ms. > > > > >I've played around with the pre-release, audio buffer time, and > > > >streaming vs. buffered audio files and I haven't found a combination > > > >where the audio file will completely play and I don't have a massive > > > >delay. > > > > >Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions? > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Conrad > > > >Madison, WI > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Aug 27 15:49:48 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:49:48 -0400 Subject: Removing {ENTER} from screen display of echo In-Reply-To: <46a75ab1-8597-4def-85c8-996f39305211@w6g2000yqw.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Just repeating what I posted earlier today at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3368-5-1.aspx : Could you just remove the offending terminal character with a bit of inline script, e.g., assuming your stimulus is called StimSlide, Dim xString as String xString = Left$( StimSlide.RESP, (Len(StimSlide.RESP) - 1) ) ? Please see the online E-Basic Help for more info on the Left$() and Len() functions. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >In part of the program I need participants to be able to submit four >word answers based on one picture. They need to submit each answer >separately, and NOT be able to edit it once they've pressed enter. >But, they do need to be able to SEE each of the other three answers >while they're typing the fourth, and then ultimately all four before >they "submit" that screen and move to the next slide object. > >We've been able to get the .RESP written into an attribute and then >displayed on the screen and make this work, but since {ENTER} is set >to the termination of the echo box, the screen displays the entered >PLUS the {ENTER}. > >Earlier, we were able to get the program to do a certain command based >on a .RESP + "{ENTER}", but when we tried to prevent it from >displaying the {ENTER} by using a - "{ENTER}", but that won't run due >to the error "type mismatch". > >Any ideas how to display what has previously been captured in an echo >on to the screen WITHOUT whatever key was used to terminate the echo >box? > >Thanks for any help! --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Aug 27 16:11:14 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:11:14 -0400 Subject: Array problem In-Reply-To: <9924f913-4fad-49c4-9de9-c858d5707fc7@g31g2000yqc.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Stephane, I suspect that your run-time delay has nothing to do with the lack of a hardware key (especially since E-Prime does not use the hardware key at run-time), and everything to do with the size and complexity of your arrays and randomization needs. The method illustrated in PST's NoRepeat.es example is non-deterministic, which means it does not guarantee a solution in any finite time and the search time gets longer as the arrays get longer and stimulus lists more complex. You can find this discussed at length on the PST Forum at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3166-5-1.aspx , http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3178-5-1.aspx , and http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2186-5-1.aspx . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 8/26/2009 10:19 AM Wednesday, you wrote: >Dear all, > >I am trying to programme an emotional stroop experiment, but I am >facing a problem with the array declared in the inline I think. I have >downloaded the NoRepeat.es file from the pst website: >http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic324-5-1.aspx > >This file presents 4 different lists of words, each with 5 words. The >inline RandomizeStim makes sure that no words from the same list are >presented on two consecutive trials. > >In the inline, there is this line for the array: >'Declare an array of 20 slots to hold 5 stim of each of 4 types. Slot >0 is unused. >Dim arrStim(20) As Integer > >I wanted to present 4 lists, each including 12 words. So, I have >changed this line to: > >'Declare an array of 48 slots to hold 12 stim of each of 4 types. Slot >0 is unused. >Dim arrStim(48) As Integer > >I have also added the 28 additional levels needed in the TrialList. >When I do this, my experiment works fine, but it takes about 5 seconds >for the instructions to appear. > >Then, I have tried to present 4 lists, each including 24 words. So, I >have changed this line to: > >'Declare an array of 96 slots to hold 24 stim of each of 4 types. Slot >0 is unused. >Dim arrStim(96) As Integer > >I have added the 48 additional levels in the TrialList. In that case, >the experiment does not even start. The screen stays blank?. > >At the moment, I don?t have the hardware key plugged in, as one of my >colleagues is using it. Can it be that the problem has nothing to do >with the array and that this is caused by the absence of the >hardwarekey? > >Any help is much appreciated. > >stephane --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From gsamson at goldbern.co.uk Fri Aug 28 10:27:38 2009 From: gsamson at goldbern.co.uk (Gary Samson) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:27:38 -0700 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Message-ID: Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer Department of Psychology University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 www.kent.ac.uk/psychology --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 11:39:41 2009 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:39:41 -0700 Subject: Startle probe or sound while showing image Message-ID: I am trying to put a startle experiment up and running but I can not get the sound to play while still presenting the image. What I want to do is to have a sound presented after 5s into a 10s long image presentation. What I get right now is sound and image at the same time or sound after image offset. I have also tried to get an image superimposed on an other image, which is kind of the same problem, but with no luck. Thanks Jens --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Aug 28 12:01:28 2009 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:01:28 +0100 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? In-Reply-To: <933a1528-23a8-4162-b52f-10e4617ce21b@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Few people like Vista much and I think that is the main reason they are reluctant to running critical stuff on it. However, personally, I never had problems with running E-Prime on vista, although I did not make sure in any technical manner. If timing is your main concern, I would suggest running those timer tests from the E-Prime site, preferably on a pc that has both vista and winxp on it. Vista does include quite a number of tools to tweak all kinds of extra processes, but it will take a little time to get it right - I would urge not to just use your e-prime on a fresh install (for example, you do not want it to reboot during an experiment because of updates!), but then, that goes for xp too. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Samson Sent: 28 August 2009 11:28 To: E-Prime Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer Department of Psychology University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 www.kent.ac.uk/psychology This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses, which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From ll356 at medschl.cam.ac.uk Fri Aug 28 12:11:29 2009 From: ll356 at medschl.cam.ac.uk (River) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:11:29 -0700 Subject: OnsetDelay query Message-ID: Hi, I'm curious about my experiments OnsetDelay. As i understand it, OnsetDelay is the difference between when the image should be shown according to your design and when it is actually shown and that these delays are often caused by the computers OS doing stuff you can't stop as well as (possibly) the stimuli prep time. At present participants see a bunch of stimuli in this structure: 1) fixation cross-500ms 2) 1280x1024 32 bit colour image- 2500ms, which then clears to a blank white screen for 2000ms giving a total response window of 4500ms (the reponse does not terminate the image or the blank screen). Structurally, this is followed by a Wait object of 2000ms to accomodate the blank white screen following the image. So therefore the OnsetDelay in this instance describes the delay between the end of the fixation duration and the start of the image duration. Would this be correct? My monitors sampling rate is 60Hz (as listed in the eprime data files) and so my sample refresh duration is 16.67ms. I noticed that the fixation cross or the blank screen occasionally appeared for longer than specified so added a PreRelease of 200ms to the fixation (but not the Wait as this caused a failure to record responses in that period), as I thought the large bitmaps were taking a while to load. I also changed all my durations to accomodate the refresh duration: 1) 501ms 2)2505ms, 2004ms, giving a total of 4509ms Despite this, my OnsetDelays for the colour image still average around 1000ms across all the stimuli. The DurationError is 0, I'm running no other applications and I've tried increasing the PreRelease to 400ms and 450ms with no obvious change. I also placed a PreRelease on the Wait Object to determine if the delay was coming from the prep time for the fixation and this didn't improve the OnsetDelay either so now I'm stumped! I noticed that on another version where smaller images were being used (1024 x 768, and the display size was changed to accomodate) the Onset delay was around 600ms with no PreRelease on the fixation, and 400ms with the PreRelease. When the screen is physically smaller (i.e. the experiment is being run on a small laptop instead of a large screen desktop) it seems as if this delay is reduced again. Is it possible that the image size is the problem and if so, is there a way to fix this or is it just a symptom of my systems processing power? Or is it the OS doing stuff and therefore it can't be fixed? I've attempted to guage my screen refresh rate using the Refresh detector attached to the SRBox but cannot get it to work (the sensor seems to be working when its waved around and i'm testing in 'ambient lighting conditions' as prescribed). I'm using Eprime v1. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Perhaps i'm just misinterpreting the definition of OnsetDelay...or any of the other things mentioned here! River --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From debramalpass at yahoo.co.uk Fri Aug 28 13:36:45 2009 From: debramalpass at yahoo.co.uk (Deb Malpass) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:36:45 -0700 Subject: Specifying onset of response time Message-ID: Hi - I'm designing an experiment where participants are visually presented with text (e.g. "boats") followed by the auditory presentation of a question (e.g "What did you build?"). They then have to respond to the question constructing their answer using the text they have seen (e.g. "I built boats"). I need to measure their response from the onset of the verb in the auditory question until the voice key is triggered. Is there any way in E-Prime to specify when to begin measuring response time? Many Thanks, Debra Malpass --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 15:15:33 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:15:33 -0400 Subject: Startle probe or sound while showing image In-Reply-To: <2edddc9b-de5d-4981-b04b-70f6beb08987@m38g2000yqh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jens, Suppose your image object is called StimImage, and your startle sound object is called StartleSound. Then try this: Set Duration of StimImage to 5000 ms, and make sure that Clear After is No. Set Duration of StartleSound to 5000 ms, and make sure that End Sound Action is (none). Now StimImage will come on, and 5 sec later your startle sound will start, without erasing your StimImage. Your startle sound will play, and the StartleSound object will continue to run the full 5 sec even after your sound file ends, completing the desired 10 sec interval. If needed, you may also collect a response to either StimImage or StartleSound (or both, if you dare!). If you want to collect a response to StimImage over the entire 10 sec, then set its Time Limit to 10000 ms (see Extended Input in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am trying to put a startle experiment up and running but I can not >get the sound to play while still presenting the image. > >What I want to do is to have a sound presented after 5s into a 10s >long image presentation. > >What I get right now is sound and image at the same time or sound >after image offset. > > >I have also tried to get an image superimposed on an other image, >which is kind of the same problem, but with no luck. > > >Thanks >Jens --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 15:23:43 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:23:43 -0400 Subject: Specifying onset of response time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Debra, Hmm, wouldn't that be nice. But as far as I know E-Prime cannot do this, though perhaps someone else has a better answer. I would just measure RT from the start of the audio, then during data analysis subtract out the known time from the start of the audio to the onset of the verb. Or, if you really need that data at run time, include the verb onset times in your stimulus list, and then add a bit of inline script to do any needed calculations. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi - I'm designing an experiment where participants are visually >presented with text (e.g. "boats") followed by the auditory >presentation of a question (e.g "What did you build?"). They then >have to respond to the question constructing their answer using the >text they have seen (e.g. "I built boats"). > >I need to measure their response from the onset of the verb in the >auditory question until the voice key is triggered. > >Is there any way in E-Prime to specify when to begin measuring >response time? > >Many Thanks, > >Debra Malpass --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From zajdeld at ohsu.edu Fri Aug 28 18:25:56 2009 From: zajdeld at ohsu.edu (Daniel Zajdel) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:25:56 -0700 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Message-ID: My lab will be hanging on to WinXP for as long as possible. I have definitely seen the timing issue with Vista and I don't forsee Windows7 to be any better. Neurology Oregon Health & Science University ________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com on behalf of Gary Samson Sent: Fri 8/28/2009 3:27 AM To: E-Prime Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer Department of Psychology University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 www.kent.ac.uk/psychology --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 14:48:48 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:48:48 -0400 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? In-Reply-To: <933a1528-23a8-4162-b52f-10e4617ce21b@18g2000yqa.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Nothing has changed with regard to reliability of E-Prime 2 under Vista. Note that the latest build of EP2 (2.0.8.22) was released over a year ago on 21 May 2008, and nothing has changed since then. So all the reported problems remain: Delays and crashes when playing sound (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1361-12-1.aspx ), crashes when playing movies (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1850-4-1.aspx ), anomalies in measured response times (http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2994-12-1.aspx ). In short, DO NOT use Vista for E-Prime 2! E-Prime 1, by contrast, does seem to work OK under Vista. Nevertheless, I would go even further to insist that Vista not be used for running any experiments, as Vista simply has not proved itself reliable for laboratory use in the way that XP has. OK though to use Vista for *developing* the experiment programs and then move them to XP machines for running subjects, if you can get through the occasional glitches during development -- that's what I do. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime >under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current >thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? > >Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer >Department of Psychology >University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP >Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030 >www.kent.ac.uk/psychology --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Aug 28 15:54:33 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:54:33 -0400 Subject: OnsetDelay query In-Reply-To: <8136d9a1-3ac1-4a3d-8aa3-9fbbfdd7a8fb@j21g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: River, >So therefore the OnsetDelay in this instance describes the delay >between the end of the fixation duration and the start of the image >duration. Would this be correct? Just to be clear, there is practically *no* delay between the *actual* end of the fixation duration and the *actual* start of the image duration. OnsetDelay refers rather to the delay from the *specified* start time of an object to the *actual* start time of that object. This is illustrated in a very complex diagram in Appendix E of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. Beyond that, I would guess that your high-resolution images present a problem. You could test that further by trying some good old 6402x480 16-bit images. Offhand, OnsetDelays of over 400 ms seem *way* too long, and I hope others weigh in with their own experiences here. You might also resort to pre-loading or caching the images before display. You may download PST's "Pre-loading images without the use of Canvas" sample from their web site, or you may try the TimingParadigm5 example mentioned in Chapter 3 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime (PST does not provide TimingParadigm5 for download, you must request it through e-mail or Web Support as I did). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From pquain at une.edu.au Sun Aug 30 16:30:46 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:30:46 +1000 Subject: PreRelease?? In-Reply-To: <8136d9a1-3ac1-4a3d-8aa3-9fbbfdd7a8fb@j21g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Hi I was looking at prerelease, and came across what seems to me to be an anomaly. Two snippets, below. One from Users Guide, the other from help. Key bits underlined. Prerelease is mentioned more in Guide chapter 3 example paradigms, used with event mode. Yet e-basic notes that it is ignored during event mode. So does anyone know what is the real story with prerelease? does it operate in Event mode, or not? Secondly, Timing paradigm 2 details a masking paradigm with Probe duration 90ms, and waiting for a response for 2000 ms. The Probe has 100 ms prerelease so the following mask can be prepared. Have a look at the bold line in e=prime help snippet below. Again, does anyone know the real story with this? Is e-prime example paradigm fantasy, or has the implementation of prerelease been modified early, and the woeful help has escaped notice and updating for 7(?) years? From p110 of e-prime users guide (from version 1): ---------------------------------------------------- Timing Paradigm 2: Critical sequence of events ... An example would be to present a sequence of a fixation, probe, and mask, where the duration of each of the events is precise, the time of the response is precise, and the response may occur during or after the stimulus event (e.g., response to the probe occurred while the mask display was presented). Subject input may alter the timing (e.g., remove the stimulus when the subject responds). After the critical sequence of events, the timing of the remaining events (e.g., feedback) and the time to choose the next condition are not critical (e.g., delays of less than 100ms are not critical). This paradigm model uses Event timing mode with PreRelease enabled on all objects except the last one of the sequence. Durations for displays are set based on the refresh rate of the video mode. ----------------------------------------------------- From e-basic help (both versions 1, and 2) ---------------------------------------------- Syntax RteRunnableInputObject.PreRelease Description Amount of time released during the processing of the current object to allow for setup of the next object. Comments ? This property is used only with Cumulative Timing Mode. It is ignored in Event timing. ? PreRelease is ignored by objects which have their Run method terminated by a response. ? If the object has a post-action (e.g., ClearAfter), the Pre-Release time will have little effect (e.g., the object must wait until its true offset time before clearing). ----------------------------------------- --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pquain at une.edu.au Mon Aug 31 07:01:51 2009 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:01:51 +1000 Subject: OnsetDelay query Message-ID: Hi This problem could reflect poorly performing graphics system (or other) on the computer. Agree with David - 1000 ms load times are ridiculous, and even 400 ms, on the laptop, seems like a very long time, whether it is happening during a trial sequence, or not. On an old p4 2.8Ghz laptop, garden variety graphics, 768Mb RAM I got load times in e-prime of 20 ms for a 2.3Mb BMP, 7 ms for 567Kb pic. E-prime Users guide cites old Pentium 450MHz 30ms load times, bitmap unspecified file size. You should cache your image files. - What are the file sizes? What are these machine's configurations? Load times of 1000 ms out of order, unless your files are huge .. +100Mb maybe ..., or your computer is old (and thus very slow), or ill. -Your computer (graphics card / drivers?; have you a g-Force, N-vidia card?? if so, try ATI... CPU?; RAM?; HDD?) mightn't be operating too well when it comes to discussing images with e-prime... or there could be something to do with the programming of the paradigm that is screwing things up between fixation and stim. The wait object? can't see how it could influence after fixation executes... Maybe to find the more about cause of problem try logging 'ActionDelay' on stim presentation pbject, with no prerelease on fixation. Action delay will tell you how long it takes for stim object to do all prep for drawing to screen. 1) If loading is the problem, ActionDelay will be the same as onsetDelay. 2) if they aren't the same then something else in the program is possibly delaying execution of stim object. To check whether prerelease is doing anything, set fixation pr to maybe 200 ms, then run and log action delay and onset delay on stim object again. Action delay should be the same as with no pr, and onset delay *should* be reduced by 200 ms, i think. (but you report no influence of fixation prerelease on onset time..??) Reduction in load time of 400 ms (from 1000 to 600 ms with no prerelease) with image dimension (and thus size) reduction (on the same computer) would suggest that it is your computer graphics (and or RAM, CPU, HDD) performance, not odd code, that is causing the delay. A 1024*768*32bit image is about 5/8 file size of 1280*1024*32bit image (I think). Interestingly, but perhaps coincidentally , 5/8 of 1000ms = 625ms. However, I can't work out how this would add up with what you note about prerelease behaviour. Same conclusion from the delay reduction on another machine (the laptop). Don't think it would have anything to do with screen *size*, provided that its screen could run native at the appropriate resolution. Different machine, different graphics hardware, CPU etc = different load times. Still long though ... Anyway, try pre-load the image files, and if you still have timing issues, change your video card - or your computer, if you have a better specced 1 around. Best ~Peter At 01:54 AM 29/08/2009, you wrote: >River, > > >So therefore the OnsetDelay in this instance describes the delay > >between the end of the fixation duration and the start of the image > >duration. Would this be correct? > >Just to be clear, there is practically *no* delay between the >*actual* end of the fixation duration and the *actual* start of the >image duration. OnsetDelay refers rather to the delay from the >*specified* start time of an object to the *actual* start time of >that object. This is illustrated in a very complex diagram in >Appendix E of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. > >Beyond that, I would guess that your high-resolution images present a >problem. You could test that further by trying some good old >6402x480 16-bit images. Offhand, OnsetDelays of over 400 ms seem >*way* too long, and I hope others weigh in with their own experiences here. > >You might also resort to pre-loading or caching the images before >display. You may download PST's >"Pre-loading > >images without the use of Canvas" sample from their web site, or you >may try the TimingParadigm5 example mentioned in Chapter 3 of the >User's Guide that came with E-Prime (PST does not provide >TimingParadigm5 for download, you must request it through e-mail or >Web Support as I did). > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 31 18:35:24 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:35:24 -0400 Subject: OnsetDelay query In-Reply-To: <4a97fdcf.5944f10a.6f7b.0ba8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: >You could test that further by trying some good old 6402x480 16-bit images. Oops, just noticed that typo -- should read "640 x 480 ..."! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Aug 31 18:49:32 2009 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:49:32 -0400 Subject: PreRelease?? In-Reply-To: <200908301631.n7UGVEBK006558@mail11.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Peter, At 8/30/2009 12:30 PM Sunday, you wrote: > From e-basic help (both versions 1, and 2) >---------------------------------------------- >Syntax > >RteRunnableInputObject.PreRelease >? This property is used only with >Cumulative Timing Mode. It is ignored in Event timing. Thanks for noticing this, and for bringing it to our attention here. I brought this up on the PST Forum over a year ago (in the context of the topic "Size of Image Files", see http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1197-5-1.aspx ), and got this response from Brandon Cernicky: "... thank you for bringing a significant oversight in the E-Basic help file to our attention. The documentation you mentioned in RteRunnableInputObject.PreRelease is minimally out of context and the statement about PreRelease being ignored in Event timing mode is just plain inaccurate. We have typically not referred end users to the E-Basic help for this specific property instead towards the Critical Timing Chapter in the manuals. Thanks again for bring this to our attention so that it can be corrected. "The use of PreRelease works the same for both Cumulative and Event timing modes. Cumulative timing mode depends more on PreRelease because of its temporal sync mechanisms. But Event timing requires the benefits of PreRelease just as well." Hope that clarifies that issue. Also FWIW, as far as I can tell, the E-Basic Help that comes with EP2 contains exactly the same content as in EP1 -- in particular, the EP2 Help lacks any documentation on new features added in EP2. So I expect that any errors in the EP1 Help carry over unchanged into the EP2 Help. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 19:03:50 2009 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:03:50 -0700 Subject: Startle probe or sound while showing image In-Reply-To: <4a97f4a7.5944f10a.7262.0ba6SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you very much. It works perfect. Also, I changed the Duration of the StimImage to an Attribute in a List set at 2000ms and 8000ms. Then, I changed the Duration of the StartleSound to another Attribute set at 8000ms and 2000ms. This gave me the desired 10 sec interval of image presentation with two different SOAs. Early vs. late Thanks again Jens --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- From svlevi at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 20:31:01 2009 From: svlevi at gmail.com (susie) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:31:01 -0700 Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? In-Reply-To: <55D76FF9A5DA02418C7F92EE0FEA4002AC5126@EX-BE05.ohsu.edu> Message-ID: I bought an XP machine in June after having problems with my new Vista machines. Vista was unable to run sounds with the correct timing even with pre-release and other changes (eg buffering to streaming or vice versa). --Susie On Aug 28, 2:25?pm, "Daniel Zajdel" wrote: > My lab will be hanging on to WinXP for as long as possible. I have definitely seen the timing issue with Vista and I don't forsee Windows7 to be any better. > > Neurology > Oregon Health & Science University > > ________________________________ > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com on behalf of Gary Samson > Sent: Fri 8/28/2009 3:27 AM > To: E-Prime > Subject: Current thinking on Windows Vista and E-Prime? > > Earlier this year there were concerns about the reliability of E-Prime > under Vista (timing accuracy was one issue). What is the current > thinking on Vista and E-Prime. Is it still a combination to avoid? > > Gary Samson, Senior Experimental Officer > Department of Psychology > University of Kent, Canterbury, Kent CT2 7NP > Tel: 01227 823079 Fax: 01227 827030www.kent.ac.uk/psychology > > ?winmail.dat > 5KViewDownload --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---