From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Dec 1 09:34:24 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 09:34:24 +0000 Subject: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, One thing to add to what has already been said: are we talking about error: overflow, or error: buffer overflow? The former is generally really simply helped, it tends to be caused by a variable defined as integer but then getting a long number assigned to it, for instance: Dim a As Variant Dim i As Integer i = -32768 a = Abs(i) 'Result is a Long. i = Abs(i) 'Overflow! (from ebasic help) That is, an integer can only have values assigned to it between -32768 and (+)32767, thus assigning Abs(-32768) [results in +32768) causes an overflow. This would explain your scenario as follows: you have, for instance, a cumulative reaction time (or the sum of RTs), which sooner (if participants are really slow) or later (if they aren't) causes the overflow by reaching higher than 32767. Personally, I often get this because I define a variable as integer and do constant clock.read (which gets the time in ms from the onset of the experiment). This causes an overflow after less than a minute. Anyway, the error can usually be solved by defining the variable as long (or variant, but a curse rests on such ill-defined types) instead of integer. The latter (buffer overflow) is presumably associated with your neuroscan setup, which, I would expect, uses serial port communication. I would have predicted that something like 'flushoutputbuffer' might have helped you, but, according to the help file: "This function is reserved for future use. Serial output communications are synchronous. Data is always flushed from the output buffer after write operations are called." Did the future come with E-Prime 2? Are you using E-Prime 2? Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson Sent: 30 November 2010 20:20 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer which program is giving you the "Buffer Overflow" error, eprime or neuroscan? if eprime, does eprime crash when the error occurs? can you see where you were in the script when i crashes, and does it always crash at the same place in the script? On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Jessica Miller > wrote: Hello! We have Neuroscan 4.5 collecting ERP data while E-Prime presents the experiment to participants. Recently we have been getting a "Buffer Overflow" error message as soon as 15 minutes into an experiment and as late as 1 hour 20 minutes. I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if it is a problem with the data being sent from E- Prime to Neuroscan, or if it is another problem. Both computers that we use meet all requirements for both software packages, and were fully upgraded (RAM, video memory, etc) in the last month. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jess.cogneuro at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:50:03 2010 From: jess.cogneuro at gmail.com (Jessica Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 05:50:03 -0800 Subject: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20B58D08@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thank you for the input, everyone!! This is all good food-for-thought, as I've only been working with E-Prime and Neuroscan less than two years. I'm sorry for not being more clear in my original post. Providing a script in this post would not be of much help because I get "Error: Buffer Overflow" in Neuroscan 4.5 with numerous E-Prime 2 experiments. The E-Prime computer is connected via parallel ports, and the hookup with Neuroscan equipment and Neuroscan computer is a mix of serial and usb ports. I realize that the problem is most likely Neuroscan, but I have been in constant contact with our technician who tells me there is little he can do after upgrading the computers. Thus, I thought perhaps it is a common problem with E-Prime (not specific to any particular experiment, but the software in general). When Neurscan crashes E-Prime continues on, thus causing us to lose precious data. Again, I posted on here hoping someone had a similar problem and could tell me if they had a problem with the E-Prime software, the ports on either computer, a cable connection, or the Neuroscan software. I apologize if it isn't the most appropriate place to post this question. Thanks for any help! On Dec 1, 4:34 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > One thing to add to what has already been said: are we talking about error: overflow, or error: buffer overflow? > The former is generally really simply helped, it tends to be caused by a variable defined as integer but then getting a long number assigned to it, for instance: > Dim a As Variant > Dim i As Integer > i = -32768 > a = Abs(i)                                                       'Result is a Long. > i = Abs(i)                                                        'Overflow! > (from ebasic help) > That is, an integer can only have values assigned to it between -32768 and (+)32767, thus assigning Abs(-32768) [results in +32768) causes an overflow. This would explain your scenario as follows: you have, for instance, a cumulative reaction time (or the sum of RTs), which sooner (if participants are really slow) or later (if they aren't) causes the overflow by reaching higher than 32767. Personally, I often get this because I define a variable as integer and do constant clock.read (which gets the time in ms from the onset of the experiment). This causes an overflow after less than a minute.  Anyway, the error can usually be solved by defining the variable as long (or variant, but a curse rests on such ill-defined types) instead of integer. > > The latter (buffer overflow) is presumably associated with your neuroscan setup, which, I would expect, uses serial port communication. I would have predicted that something like 'flushoutputbuffer' might have helped you, but, according to the help file: > "This function is reserved for future use.  Serial output communications are synchronous.  Data is always flushed from the output buffer after write operations are called." > Did the future come with E-Prime 2? Are you using E-Prime 2? > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson > Sent: 30 November 2010 20:20 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer > > which program is giving you the "Buffer Overflow" error, eprime or neuroscan?  if eprime, does eprime crash when the error occurs?  can you see where you were in the script when i crashes, and does it always crash at the same place in the script? > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Jessica Miller > wrote: > Hello! > > We have Neuroscan 4.5 collecting ERP data while E-Prime presents the > experiment to participants. Recently we have been getting a "Buffer > Overflow" error message as soon as 15 minutes into an experiment and > as late as 1 hour 20 minutes. I am wondering if anyone else has had > this problem and if it is a problem with the data being sent from E- > Prime to Neuroscan, or if it is another problem. Both computers that > we use meet all requirements for both software packages, and were > fully upgraded (RAM, video memory, etc) in the last month. > > Any suggestions would be much appreciated. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Dec 1 19:23:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:23:56 -0500 Subject: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer In-Reply-To: <8c72def8-93e2-4d0b-872d-92965bf94bc7@d24g2000prj.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jessica, >Providing a script in this post would not be of much help because I >get "Error: Buffer Overflow" in Neuroscan 4.5 with numerous E-Prime 2 >experiments. The E-Prime computer is connected via parallel ports, and >the hookup with Neuroscan equipment and Neuroscan computer is a mix of >serial and usb ports. I realize that the problem is most likely >Neuroscan, but I have been in constant contact with our technician who >tells me there is little he can do after upgrading the computers. >Thus, I thought perhaps it is a common problem with E-Prime (not >specific to any particular experiment, but the software in general). >When Neurscan crashes E-Prime continues on, thus causing us to lose >precious data. Based on this description, I would say that EP works just fine, and the fault lies entirely with Neuroscan. So you will have to take this up with the Neuroscan folks. But if you want to pursue this a little further yourself, then try the following exercise: Disconnect EP from the Neuroscan equipment. Then run a mock ERP session wth the Neuroscan system. I bet that if you do this enough that you will still get the "Buffer Overflow" error on the Neuroscan, even with EP removed from the system. That should satisfy you that EP contributes nothing to the problem, and the fault lies entirely with the Neuroscan setup. >Both computers that we use meet all requirements for both software >packages, and were fully upgraded (RAM, video memory, etc) in the last month. As to that, did the system work fine before the upgrades, and the problem arose after the upgrades? If so, then I would just remove the upgrades. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nateaschreiber at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 16:08:47 2010 From: nateaschreiber at gmail.com (Nate) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:08:47 -0800 Subject: EEG Pulse Duration with Onsetsignal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So to close this- the pulse duration was the duration of the stimulus in this instance. This was actually not a problem, as Brain Vision only looks at the onset of the pulse, not the duration of the pulse. So, all is well! On Nov 16, 11:50 pm, Nate wrote: > Yes it's ridiculous.  It's even more ridiculous that our lab paid for > one...but we don't really have a dedicated tech staff.  (Have you seen > how much the electrode caps cost?! I would be willing to quit my job > and sit at home and make them myself for that price.) > > Thanks for the help on the pin placement- I'll check this out.  If > anything it is a good lesson in parallel port communication. > > On Nov 16, 4:41 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Wow, BioSemi wants $100 for a simple 25-pin D-sub to 37-pin D-sub > > cable?  I could build one from parts for a lot less than that, and > > then I would know exactly what it does.  But anyway...  I would just > > work on the 25-pin connector on the E-Prime end (and in fact I would > > add a straight-through 25-pin cable just to make my work > > easier).  That pinout remains the same for Presentation and EP.  Then > > yes, your negative lead goes to ground (pin 25; you can Google to get > > several pinout diagrams, pay attention to gender).  Then you have to > > know how to translate decimal to binary, and be aware that we count > > bits from low to high.  The value 9 comes to binary 00001001, which > > means that it would raise a signal on pins 2 and 5.  So put the > > positive lead of the meter on either of these (you will of course try > > both those pins plus a few others just to complete the exercise and > > to see if I really know what I am talking about).  If you then still > > wanted to see how the signal makes it through the BioSemi cable, then > > it looks like you put leads from pin 37 to pins 1 or 4 at the end of > > the BioSemi cable. > > > Sorry, I can't help at all with the Brain Vision issues. > > > -- David McFarlane, Profesional Faultfinder > > > >This is indeed VERY helpful.  If I was to measure the duration of the > > >pulse (the trigger sent is actually '9') using a voltmeter, I would > > >then connect the negative wire to the incoming PCI-DIO cable ground > > >hole (which one is this?) and the positive lead would then connect > > >to...hmm the chart below does not show 9.... > > > >This shows the pin mapping for this, but there is an error on the page > > >and I also can't tell which chart is actually for eprime. > > >http://www.biosemi.com/faq/presentation.htm > > > >Onto the other method/explanation: in this example then, I do not have > > >a prerelease for this particular slide, so the pulse duration is > > >probably1500ms.  Other triggers/slides are of different durations and > > >are hopefully not relevant.... > > > >However, now comes the potential problem of analysis in Brain Vision > > >analyzer, though I am not sure this is the correct forum for this (but > > >then again, I have not found a BV forum anywhere).  Anyways, if anyone > > >is familiar with this, I would really appreciate some input, as I am > > >kind of lost: > > > >I have been told that the triggers/markers (or only the one marker of > > >interest?) need to be moved based on the length of the pulse.    So > > >in  this example the 5 (or 9 in my instance) marker would need to be > > >moved with an offset of 1500 ms. Anyone know if this is true? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From S.Mobini at uea.ac.uk Thu Dec 2 20:34:41 2010 From: S.Mobini at uea.ac.uk (S.Mobini at uea.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:34:41 -0000 Subject: E-Prime course in UK Message-ID: Hi, does anyone know any formal E-prime course in the UK and how much does it cost? thanks Sirous -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hahajy15 at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 01:34:37 2010 From: hahajy15 at gmail.com (coglab760) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 17:34:37 -0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! Message-ID: To whom it may concerned, Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha Womans University. We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a naming task. Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box and the voice key. However, the SR box doesn't work. The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be a problem. And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. How can I fix this? Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such as the microphone? Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. Thank you. Sincerely, Jiyoon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From meg.andrejczuk at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 02:30:18 2010 From: meg.andrejczuk at gmail.com (Megan Andrejczuk) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 21:30:18 -0500 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <727f947b-cd5e-4aee-87ee-8331a120da84@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test the other functions? On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" wrote: > To whom it may concerned, > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > Womans University. > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > naming task. > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > and the voice key. > However, the SR box doesn't work. > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > a problem. > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > How can I fix this? > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > as the microphone? > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > Jiyoon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nusphd at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 03:54:17 2010 From: nusphd at gmail.com (Lidia Suarez) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 11:54:17 +0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jiyoon, This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that when Eprime was installed, "yes" was pressed to a message asking whether you are using SR box or one message alike. Regards, Lidia On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk wrote: > Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test the other > functions? > On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" wrote: > > To whom it may concerned, > > > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > > Womans University. > > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > > naming task. > > > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > > and the voice key. > > However, the SR box doesn't work. > > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > > a problem. > > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > > How can I fix this? > > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > > as the microphone? > > > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > > Thank you. > > > > Sincerely, > > Jiyoon > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Dec 6 06:00:03 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 06:00:03 +0000 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, This should indeed be the correct answer - that is to say, if the lights on the SR Box stay on, it means the SR Box is not correctly installed - either on the computer or on the experiment. Therefore: - Try the SRBox example programs from PST - if THEY don't work, you can be pretty sure it's not YOUR experiment that is the problem. - If they indeed don't work, try reinstalling E-Prime (it should try to install drivers for the SRBox - if you or someone had selected 'please don't install unverified drivers', it will have gone awry). - Check to see what Com Port the SRBox is actually on. If you don't know how, ask your system administrator. E-Prime can only address com ports 1-4, for some reason, so if you have installed a ton of other stuff that uses these (i run into that problem quite often), you may have some difficulty. Best, Mich ________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lidia Suarez [nusphd at gmail.com] Sent: 04 December 2010 03:54 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: need answers for SRbox, plz! Hi Jiyoon, This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that when Eprime was installed, "yes" was pressed to a message asking whether you are using SR box or one message alike. Regards, Lidia On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk > wrote: Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test the other functions? On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" > wrote: > To whom it may concerned, > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > Womans University. > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > naming task. > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > and the voice key. > However, the SR box doesn't work. > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > a problem. > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > How can I fix this? > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > as the microphone? > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > Jiyoon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 6 18:03:31 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 13:03:31 -0500 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20BCCE67@EXCHANGE3.ad.no ttingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Jiyoon, On top of all that, please submit a request to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp . After all, it is their job to make sure that you have all the instructions you need in order to make their equipment work. Tell them that I sent you :). Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/6/2010 01:00 AM Monday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >This should indeed be the correct answer - that is to say, if the >lights on the SR Box stay on, it means the SR Box is not correctly >installed - either on the computer or on the experiment. Therefore: >- Try the SRBox example programs from PST - if THEY don't work, you >can be pretty sure it's not YOUR experiment that is the problem. >- If they indeed don't work, try reinstalling E-Prime (it should try >to install drivers for the SRBox - if you or someone had selected >'please don't install unverified drivers', it will have gone awry). >- Check to see what Com Port the SRBox is actually on. If you don't >know how, ask your system administrator. E-Prime can only address >com ports 1-4, for some reason, so if you have installed a ton of >other stuff that uses these (i run into that problem quite often), >you may have some difficulty. >Best, >Mich > > >---------- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf >Of Lidia Suarez [nusphd at gmail.com] >Sent: 04 December 2010 03:54 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: Re: need answers for SRbox, plz! > >Hi Jiyoon, > >This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried >to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will >be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. >If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does >not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device >in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that >when Eprime was installed, "yes" was pressed to a message asking >whether you are using SR box or one message alike. > >Regards, >Lidia > > > >On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk ><meg.andrejczuk at gmail.com> wrote: > >Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test >the other functions? >On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" ><hahajy15 at gmail.com> wrote: > > To whom it may concerned, > > > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > > Womans University. > > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > > naming task. > > > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > > and the voice key. > > However, the SR box doesn't work. > > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > > a problem. > > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > > How can I fix this? > > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > > as the microphone? > > > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > > Thank you. > > > > Sincerely, > > Jiyoon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tatem.elizabeth at gmail.com Tue Dec 7 20:58:24 2010 From: tatem.elizabeth at gmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 12:58:24 -0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <4cfd2578.9e8de70a.5873.ffffdba4SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am also having a lot of difficulty with SR Box. We are running Windows 7, but working with another lab that has the same computers who are running things just fine. We are doing response time measurements and getting the "no reponse detected message." Also, it works once, the first time we turn everything on, but we have multiple sets and can't get it to move to the next and detect the keys. Does anyone have any other ideas? Elizabeth University of Houston On Dec 6, 12:03 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jiyoon, > > On top of all that, please submit a request to PST Web Support athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp.  After all, > it is their job to make sure that you have all the instructions you > need in order to make their equipment work.  Tell them that I sent you :). > > Regards, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 12/6/2010 01:00 AM Monday, Michiel Spape wrote: > > > > >Hi, > >This should indeed be the correct answer - that is to say, if the > >lights on the SR Box stay on, it means the SR Box is not correctly > >installed - either on the computer or on the experiment. Therefore: > >- Try the SRBox example programs from PST - if THEY don't work, you > >can be pretty sure it's not YOUR experiment that is the problem. > >- If they indeed don't work, try reinstalling E-Prime (it should try > >to install drivers for the SRBox - if you or someone had selected > >'please don't install unverified drivers', it will have gone awry). > >- Check to see what Com Port the SRBox is actually on. If you don't > >know how, ask your system administrator. E-Prime can only address > >com ports 1-4, for some reason, so if you have installed a ton of > >other stuff that uses these (i run into that problem quite often), > >you may have some difficulty. > >Best, > >Mich > > >---------- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf > >Of Lidia Suarez [nus... at gmail.com] > >Sent: 04 December 2010 03:54 > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >Subject: Re: need answers for SRbox, plz! > > >Hi Jiyoon, > > >This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried > >to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will > >be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. > >If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does > >not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device > >in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that > >when Eprime was installed,  "yes" was pressed to a message asking > >whether you are using SR box or one message alike. > > >Regards, > >Lidia > > >On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk > ><meg.andrejc... at gmail.com> wrote: > > >Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test > >the other functions? > >On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" > ><hahaj... at gmail.com> wrote: > > > To whom it may concerned, > > > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > > > Womans University. > > > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > > > naming task. > > > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > > > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > > > and the voice key. > > > However, the SR box doesn't work. > > > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > > > a problem. > > > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > > > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > > > How can I fix this? > > > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > > > as the microphone? > > > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > > > Thank you. > > > > Sincerely, > > > Jiyoon- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hahajy15 at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 00:59:01 2010 From: hahajy15 at gmail.com (coglab760) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 16:59:01 -0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <727f947b-cd5e-4aee-87ee-8331a120da84@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Thank you all. I've tried doing the followings answers, but I think the comport makes some problem I can't handle with. Anyhow, I am so pleased to find this group! Regards, Jiyoon On 12월4일, 오전10시34분, coglab760 wrote: > To whom it may concerned, > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > Womans University. > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > naming task. > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > and the voice key. > However, the SR box doesn't work. > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > a problem. > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > How can I fix this? > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > as the microphone? > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > Jiyoon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Thu Dec 9 11:32:13 2010 From: thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au (Merry Ha) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:32:13 +1100 Subject: eprime capabilities Message-ID: Hi, I'm a speech pathology honours student from the University of Sydney working on my project at the moment using e-prime for the first time. My honours project will be used for children with Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the screen visually and auditorily, and then have the child to imitate the computer, or read off the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment was to have the computer judge and provide feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be calculated using a pairwise variability index (PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Dec 9 12:27:24 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 12:27:24 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <012f01cb9794$bc2b9d40$3482d7c0$@uni.sydney.edu.au> Message-ID: Hi, What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? "whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be calculated using a pairwise variability index (PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)" would mean that the computer A) records vocal responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I'd imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic - let e-prime record responses and so on, and then have the experimenter classify the words immediately after the participant says them (I mean, after every trial, for instance), this would be possible. If you wish to know whether E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order analysis, the answer is no (unless you are REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which case you could do the same with much more ease in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, I classified the subjects' responses (tip for those thinking of it: classify the first letter of their literal response ('g' if green, for instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ will have a Stroop effect as well as the subjects!) as well. You will have to endure [number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. Hope that helps, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: eprime capabilities Hi, I'm a speech pathology honours student from the University of Sydney working on my project at the moment using e-prime for the first time. My honours project will be used for children with Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the screen visually and auditorily, and then have the child to imitate the computer, or read off the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment was to have the computer judge and provide feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be calculated using a pairwise variability index (PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Dec 9 15:52:40 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:52:40 -0500 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20B591D4@EXCHANGE3.ad.no ttingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >“whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)” >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I’d >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects’ responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response (‘g’ if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Fri Dec 10 06:50:30 2010 From: thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au (thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 06:50:30 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <4d00fb4b.9915e70a.2801.ffffd36bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sorry for the confusion. I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. Thanks for your help. ________________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >“whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)” >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I’d >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects’ responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response (‘g’ if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Dec 10 10:09:54 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:09:54 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <73F28666D01D6A4FBF7412122912060B014E3D@BL2PRD0103MB060.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: Hiya, Thanks for the clarification. I understand what you want e-prime, or some other psycho-prog to do, but if so, you may still ask yourself HOW MUCH you want to do this - because it will be difficult. The thing is, to my knowledge, nobody has written an automated script to do the thing you want, which would be: 1. Recording vocal responses to buffer (to .wav would be probably too slow - real signal analysis software can do this sort of thing on the fly, but I'd imagine you just might be able to come up with something based on a flow of save-to-wav then read-from-disk then analysis then feedback, but read on) 2. Analysis using sophisticated signal analysis. Language labs may have that kind of thing, but those I know prefer to do this off-line (outside the experiment) because it is VERY tricky indeed. For example, you might (at least most people do) think syllables can be easily observed in a wave-form, so that the word 'programming' has a wave-form of roughly 3 distinct waves 'pro' 'gram' 'ming'. After finding out what the first wave is (thus, the first syllable), you will easily see which was has the higher volume, and thus detect stress, right? (I see PVI detects it based on syllable duration, but the point is merely to illustrate the difficulty of connecting the higher to the lower order - loudness to wave amplitude, here) No, the spaces seldom exist, words, as waveforms, are often jumbled together, syllables may be bigger points of empty sounds than actual spaces, or vice versa (thus two words will be detected as one, or vice versa), there's _massive_ variance between participants, and, more annoyingly, between separate phonemes (P sounds produce big 'pops', for instance). Then, the 'high volume' means either high peaks, high absolute averages (envelope), high RMS? A P-pop, for instance, has a much higher peak than the (very subtle) difference between stress, therefore making it really quite difficult to 'see' stress in syllables, let alone programming it so a pc can do it automatically. Having produced quite a bit of spoken word music, myself, I lack the ability to see stress in wave-forms, actually... I am almost certain that normal stimulus presentation software (e-prime, DMDX, superlab, etc) might be able to do what you want it to do - but you'd need great amounts of experience both in advanced signal processing and (to use such knowledge in the way you want it to) lots in programming languages. You might, if you go that path, find it much easier to work using matlab, which has signal processing scripts pre-written (and, presumably, language labs doing the sort of thing you want, have scripts to work out), which should make things a lot easier. Also, PsychoPy might be able to help you, since you could presumably incorporate pre-written Python scripts. My apologies if this all sounds very drastic, I'm mainly trying to show you that, as David pointed out, it is more difficult than you may think. Perhaps this is because E-Prime (and similar software) seems to have been designed for experimental psychology (priming experiments, etc) rather than as a piece of all-purpose experimentation/analysis software. What you want, then, sounds a bit like me hoping E-Prime (or such software) will not only present my stimuli, but also analyse EEG and give biofeedback. The easiest way I could think of to have E-Prime do what you want is to employ a similar setup: have one computer (with the speech analysis software running) connected to another one (serial cable) and another running E-Prime (granted, it's not a *very* easy solution). In summary then, three thoughts: try Matlab (and see if you can get a speech analysis toolkit for matlab), try psychopy (and see if you can get a speech toolkit in Python) and try to find a dedicated, automated speech analysis toolkit from some place that might work in conjunction with other bits of software. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Sent: 10 December 2010 06:50 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Sorry for the confusion. I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. Thanks for your help. ________________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >"whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)" >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I'd >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects' responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response ('g' if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Fri Dec 10 07:14:24 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 18:14:24 +1100 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <73F28666D01D6A4FBF7412122912060B014E3D@BL2PRD0103MB060.pro d.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would do, no matter how you fiddle. At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: >Sorry for the confusion. > >I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and >determine whether the duration of the first >syllable is longer than the second syllable, and >vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do >real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. >PVI is a calculation equation about the duration >of syllables to determine stress, that I assume >would have to be part of the programming script >in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am >fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. > >Thanks for your help. >________________________________________ >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] >Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: RE: eprime capabilities > >Merry, > >I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich >to your question. EP can readily present your >visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, >and might even collect the subjects' responses >(EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into >.wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... >whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly >understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal >recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall >order! Do you know of any other current software >or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW >stress, but do so reliably enough to pass >scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, >based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? > >To be sure, in principle EP might well be >*capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it >would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. > >But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: > >Hi, > >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? > >“whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or > >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be > >calculated using a pairwise variability index > >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a > >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)” > >would mean that the computer A) records vocal > >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal > >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I’d > >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic > >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and > >then have the experimenter classify the words > >immediately after the participant says them (I > >mean, after every trial, for instance), this > >would be possible. If you wish to know whether > >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order > >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are > >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which > >case you could do the same with much more ease > >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal > >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis > >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > > > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much > >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few > >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, > >I classified the subjects’ responses (tip for > >those thinking of it: classify the first letter > >of their literal response (‘g’ if green, for > >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ > >will have a Stroop effect as well as the > >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure > >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > > > >Hope that helps, > >Mich > > > > > >Michiel Spapé > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > >www.cognitology.eu > > > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha > >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >Subject: eprime capabilities > > > >Hi, > >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the > >University of Sydney working on my project at > >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My > >honours project will be used for children with > >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > > > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the > >screen visually and auditorily, and then have > >the child to imitate the computer, or read off > >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words > >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment > >was to have the computer judge and provide > >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong > >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be > >calculated using a pairwise variability index > >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a > >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). > >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > > > >Merry > >-- >You received this message because you are >subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > >-- >You received this message because you are >subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nusphd at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 02:42:39 2010 From: nusphd at gmail.com (Lidia Suarez) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:42:39 +0800 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <201012101239.oBACdI37016470@mail14.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Thanks Michiel for all the suggestions. Yes, it is very difficult to identify syllable boundaries because of co-articulation. Merry, note that lexical stress is defined by changes in pitch, duration, and intensity. All three features are interrelated, choosing just duration may be not enough. Therefore, you may need to support the results given by the software with some kind of "human" rating. For example, you could have two judges and calculate inter-rater agreement or have a sample of "naive/healthy" participants to rate lexical stress of the words pronounced by children with CAS. On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Peter Quain wrote: > > My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to > sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is > this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing > software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to > accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when > needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would > do, no matter how you fiddle. > > > > At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: > >> Sorry for the confusion. >> >> I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the >> duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice >> versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant >> feedback on the responses. >> PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine >> stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in >> order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if >> it is able to do this kind of analysis. >> >> Thanks for your help. >> ________________________________________ >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of >> David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] >> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM >> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: eprime capabilities >> >> Merry, >> >> I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich >> to your question. EP can readily present your >> visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, >> and might even collect the subjects' responses >> (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into >> .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... >> whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >> strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly >> understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal >> recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall >> order! Do you know of any other current software >> or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW >> stress, but do so reliably enough to pass >> scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, >> based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? >> >> To be sure, in principle EP might well be >> *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it >> would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be >> *practical*. >> >> But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. >> >> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >> At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >> >Hi, >> >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >> >“whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >> >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)” >> >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >> >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >> >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I’d >> >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >> >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >> >then have the experimenter classify the words >> >immediately after the participant says them (I >> >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >> >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >> >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >> >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >> >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >> >case you could do the same with much more ease >> >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >> >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >> >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. >> > >> >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >> >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >> >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >> >I classified the subjects’ responses (tip for >> >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >> >of their literal response (‘g’ if green, for >> >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >> >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >> >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >> >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. >> > >> >Hope that helps, >> >Mich >> > >> > >> >Michiel Spapé >> >Research Fellow >> >Perception & Action group >> >University of Nottingham >> >School of Psychology >> >www.cognitology.eu >> > >> >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >> >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >> >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> >Subject: eprime capabilities >> > >> >Hi, >> >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >> >University of Sydney working on my project at >> >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >> >honours project will be used for children with >> >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). >> > >> >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >> >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >> >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >> >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >> >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >> >was to have the computer judge and provide >> >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >> >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >> >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? >> > >> >Merry >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nusphd at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 02:45:02 2010 From: nusphd at gmail.com (Lidia Suarez) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:45:02 +0800 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah! I would appreciate you let us know what you used to objectively measure syllabic stress eventually! This is interesting. On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Lidia Suarez wrote: > Thanks Michiel for all the suggestions. Yes, it is very difficult > to identify syllable boundaries because of co-articulation. Merry, note that > lexical stress is defined by changes in pitch, duration, and intensity. All > three features are interrelated, choosing just duration may be not enough. > Therefore, you may need to support the results given by the software with > some kind of "human" rating. For example, you could have two judges and > calculate inter-rater agreement or have a sample of "naive/healthy" > participants to rate lexical stress of the words pronounced by children > with CAS. > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Peter Quain wrote: > >> >> My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to >> sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is >> this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing >> software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to >> accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when >> needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would >> do, no matter how you fiddle. >> >> >> >> At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: >> >>> Sorry for the confusion. >>> >>> I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the >>> duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice >>> versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant >>> feedback on the responses. >>> PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to >>> determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming >>> script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX >>> to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. >>> >>> Thanks for your help. >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of >>> David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] >>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM >>> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>> Subject: RE: eprime capabilities >>> >>> Merry, >>> >>> I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich >>> to your question. EP can readily present your >>> visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, >>> and might even collect the subjects' responses >>> (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into >>> .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... >>> whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >>> strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly >>> understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal >>> recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall >>> order! Do you know of any other current software >>> or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW >>> stress, but do so reliably enough to pass >>> scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, >>> based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? >>> >>> To be sure, in principle EP might well be >>> *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it >>> would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be >>> *practical*. >>> >>> But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. >>> >>> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >>> >>> >>> At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >>> >Hi, >>> >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >>> >“whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >>> >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >>> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >>> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >>> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)” >>> >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >>> >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >>> >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I’d >>> >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >>> >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >>> >then have the experimenter classify the words >>> >immediately after the participant says them (I >>> >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >>> >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >>> >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >>> >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >>> >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >>> >case you could do the same with much more ease >>> >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >>> >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >>> >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. >>> > >>> >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >>> >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >>> >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >>> >I classified the subjects’ responses (tip for >>> >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >>> >of their literal response (‘g’ if green, for >>> >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >>> >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >>> >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >>> >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. >>> > >>> >Hope that helps, >>> >Mich >>> > >>> > >>> >Michiel Spapé >>> >Research Fellow >>> >Perception & Action group >>> >University of Nottingham >>> >School of Psychology >>> >www.cognitology.eu >>> > >>> >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>> >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >>> >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >>> >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>> >Subject: eprime capabilities >>> > >>> >Hi, >>> >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >>> >University of Sydney working on my project at >>> >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >>> >honours project will be used for children with >>> >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). >>> > >>> >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >>> >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >>> >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >>> >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >>> >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >>> >was to have the computer judge and provide >>> >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >>> >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >>> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >>> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >>> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >>> >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? >>> > >>> >Merry >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "E-Prime" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "E-Prime" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug.girard at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 14:06:35 2010 From: doug.girard at gmail.com (DGirard) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:06:35 -0800 Subject: Fixes for RB-530 driver problems with e-Prime 2.0 Message-ID: Hi all, I kept getting this error message (or something like it), when trying to use the Cedrus RB-530 response pad with e-Prime 2.0 on Windows Vista: 'Unable to open the SRBOX: 0x00000103 The SRBox Device Driver may not be installed' Although I'm not sure if this is recommended practice, I was able to resolve this issue by: 1. Running the SRBoxDriverInstallation.exe file on the E-Prime 2.0 CD- ROM. It's under the /E-Prime folder. This installs a driver called "PST Serial Response Box Driver" to Windows. The driver installed should have the name: SRBoxDRv.sys 2. In Device Manager, Ports (COM & LPT) should have an entry of: "Cedrus RB-x30 Response Pad (COM#)". If not, you may want to try to update the Cedrus driver from their website. Visit their site for the rbx30_driver_uninstall.zip file (http://www.cedrus.com/support/ rb_series/tn1059_mprog.htm). There are *.inf driver files in one of the ZIP file's subfolders. After driver installation, make sure the baudrate is 19200. Also, make sure this device has a COM port of 1, 2, 3, or 4. Anything higher will not work with ePrime. You can adjust this under the Advanced settings in the driver properties. More about that here: http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1045_usbport_win.htm 3. In Device Manager, under Universal Serial Bus controllers, there should be an entry of: "USB Serial Converter". If not, update the driver using the ftdibus.inf file located within the rbx30_driver_uninstall.zip file mentioned above (downloaded from the Cedrus website). 4. Unplug the USB response pad. Start a reboot. While the computer is rebooting, make sure the device pins (DIP switches) are in the following position: 1=Up, 2=Down, 3=Down, 4=Down. See: http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1047_eprime.htm 5. AFTER Windows successfully boots and you login, THEN plug in the response box (otherwise Windows may falsely detect it as a mouse during startup). 6. Adjust the Experiment properties to ensure that the ePrime settings are identical to the Device Manager properties, e.g. baudrate = 19200, COM=1,2,3, or 4, etc. 7. Generate and run! Basically, I think I did not do Step #1 and this screwed everything up. For some reason the default installation for ePrime 2.0 does not install these driver files. Here are some other helpful resources I found during this ordeal to assist with troubleshooting: 1. There is also an SRBoxTester.exe application which can confirm that everything is in working order with the box. Google that. 2. If installation of the driver does not go as planned, you may want to follow these instructions closely. They are strange, but in the end, it may be the only way to get this working. http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1059_mprog.htm 3. Some of the older devices (pre-2010) may need a firmware upgrade. If nothing is working, you may want to try this. To do this, unplug the device and set all of the pins to the DOWN positions. This places the device in XID mode. Plug the device back in and download the Xidon software mentioned on this page and follow the directions to perform the firmware upgrade: http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1056_updating_firmware.htm Hope this helps (and saves you the 3 hours it took me)... - DGirard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Mon Dec 13 01:48:10 2010 From: thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au (thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 01:48:10 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We did take into account the difficulties of identifying syllable boundaries and have decided to use voiced plosives as a starter as they can be determined easiest in signal analysis. We are just concentrating on duration in therapy, but will be measuring for intensity and pitch and expecting these to generalise also. Doing these kind of analyses offline is not our concern, its the real-time, objective analyses that is the difficult. Will let you know what we end up doing! ________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of Lidia Suarez [nusphd at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 1:45 PM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: eprime capabilities Ah! I would appreciate you let us know what you used to objectively measure syllabic stress eventually! This is interesting. On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Lidia Suarez > wrote: Thanks Michiel for all the suggestions. Yes, it is very difficult to identify syllable boundaries because of co-articulation. Merry, note that lexical stress is defined by changes in pitch, duration, and intensity. All three features are interrelated, choosing just duration may be not enough. Therefore, you may need to support the results given by the software with some kind of "human" rating. For example, you could have two judges and calculate inter-rater agreement or have a sample of "naive/healthy" participants to rate lexical stress of the words pronounced by children with CAS. On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Peter Quain > wrote: My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would do, no matter how you fiddle. At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: Sorry for the confusion. I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. Thanks for your help. ________________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >“whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)” >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I’d >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects’ responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response (‘g’ if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jennaology at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 13:25:10 2010 From: jennaology at yahoo.com (RB209) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 05:25:10 -0800 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing Message-ID: Hi, I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time a participant makes a response. I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for 2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). The first issue is fine. I use ... slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with a possible response. sleep (10) writeport, &H37, 0 However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to clear everything but still having problems). I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way that works. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tybeet at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 15:57:14 2010 From: tybeet at gmail.com (Tyler) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 07:57:14 -0800 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop Message-ID: I have two questions that I hope someone can help me figure out the answers to. I'm trying to present a Likert scale on the screen using a Slide and capture responses using E-Basic. I have working code for this, based on an example I found on the PST forums. The first issue I am having is what to do when the user clicks an object that doesn't register as a scale response. Initially, the code I was using would simply continue and register the rating as "nothing". However, as I require a response, I simply used an If... condition that would jump back to a Label (and start the trial over) unless it was a registered response. This is the code I have: ------------- BEGIN CODE 'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the 'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". Dim theState As SlideState Set theState = F1DStimulus.States("Default") Dim theSlideText As SlideText Dim strHit As String Dim intRating As Integer Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData 'Get the mouse response. Set theMouseResponseData = CMouseResponseData(F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) 'Was there a response? If F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then 'Determine string name of SlideText object at 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, theMouseResponseData.CursorY) 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit <> "Image" And strHit <> "Instr" Then 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected 'Change appearance of selected sub-object to provide feedback to the subject. Set theSlideText = CSlideText(F1DStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") 'Redraw the Slide to present changes F1DStimulus.Draw 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by a single digit. The Mid function is 'instructed to return the 5th character (i.e. the digit) of strHit for logging purposes. intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) 'Log rating in the data file under the attribute "Rating" c.SetAttrib "F1DRating", intRating Sleep 1000 theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") 'The subject did not click a valid sub-object. Else 'Restart the trial GoTo F1DTLabel End If 'The subject did not respond. Else 'Restart the trial GoTo F1DTLabel End If Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE ------------- END CODE The above code works flawlessly. The problem I am having now is that I would like to use a Do... Loop Until in place of the GoTo Label command. With the following code in place, clicking on a scale position work, but clicking on an invalid object does not. What happens is that the program fails to capture any mouse clicks beyond the first one. This is the code I am using: ------------- BEGIN CODE 'This file has been modified by Tyler Burleigh - December 11, 2010 'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the 'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". Dim theState As SlideState Set theState = F1AStimulus.States("Default") Dim theSlideText As SlideText Dim strHit As String Dim intRating As Integer Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData Do 'Get the mouse response. Set theMouseResponseData = CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) 'Was there a response? If F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then 'Determine string name of SlideText object at 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, theMouseResponseData.CursorY) 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit <> "Image" And strHit <> "Instr" Then 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected 'Change appearance of selected sub-object to provide feedback to the subject. Set theSlideText = CSlideText(F1AStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") 'Redraw the Slide to present changes F1AStimulus.Draw 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by a single digit. The Mid function is 'instructed to return the 5th character (i.e. the digit) of strHit for logging purposes. intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) 'Log rating in the data file under the attribute "Rating" c.SetAttrib "F1ARating", intRating Sleep 1000 theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") End If End If Loop Until (intRating > 0) Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE ------------- END CODE Can someone help me identify what may be causing the program to not register new mouse clicks? I think it's something simple such as a value not being re-set somewhere, however I tried placing Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing and intRating = 0 inside the loop without any luck. Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? Thanks, Tyler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 19:03:43 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:03:43 -0500 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did you see the thread at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd ? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/13/2010 08:25 AM Monday, you wrote: >I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time >a participant makes a response. > >I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide >object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like >triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact >point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for >2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is >followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). > >The first issue is fine. I use ... > >slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true >slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 >slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with >a possible response. >sleep (10) >writeport, &H37, 0 > >However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have >been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the >participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. >Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being >sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if >I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide >duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the >slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time >although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it >causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs >about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no >matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR >response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to >clear everything but still having problems). > >I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been >trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous >discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments >but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to >achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way >that works. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 21:16:30 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:16:30 -0500 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tyler, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... First some explanation, then some pointers toward solutions... If I understand correctly the example you found at PST, then your F1DTLabel lies on the Procedure somewhere before your F1DStimulus. When the Goto goes back to that label, it re-runs your F1DStimulus, which then also re-runs its input mask and captures one more mouse click, which your inline code then processes. But the Do...Loop code never re-runs the input mask, so you never get another mouse click. You might get around this by the simple expedient of replacing your F1DTLabel with a bit of inline code that simply says Do and then following up with the approprate Loop Until statement in the code that follows the stimulus, but I expect you had something more elegant in mind like handling everything in one inline code object. So you would need to have some way for your code to get additional mouse clicks. In addition, if you run this as an ordinary self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus Duration of (infinite) and End Action of (terminate)), then your program does not get to the inline code until after the first mouse click, so depending on how you want to play this you might have to also find some way to have EP run your code as soon as the stimulus is presented. So much for explanation, on to solutions. I will address the second issue first, then the first issue. You have two options for running inline code right after presentation of a stimulus: either set the stimulus Duration to 0, or set PreRelease >= Duration. Most users will naturally adopt the first option, and that indeed works best for self-paced presentations. But if you want the stimulus to time out or the next stimulus to come at a controlled time later, then your code would have to also handle the timing. Most users would handle that with some use of Clock.Read, but by judicious use of PreRelease you can have your code run and still let EP automatically handle the stimulus timing for you. (Some day I will write up a proper explanation of the interactions between Duration, PreRelease, and NextTargetOnsetTime and post that to the list.) In your case, if your task involves only a self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus remains until a response, then moves on), then just set stimulus Duration to 0. In any case, to collect responses while your code runs, you would also have to use "Extended Input" (see Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime), e.g., set Time Limit to (infinite). OK, now to the code. It all comes down to the line Set theMouseResponseData = _ CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) As it stands now, that line gets the first, one, and only response from the input mask. You want to allow for more mouse clicks. I can think of three approaches here. First, you could use the Advanced properties to increase the MaxCount to some suitably high value. Then you might change that line to something like Set theMouseResponseData = _ CMouseResponseData( F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(_ F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count) ) which will now get the latest mouse click each time. Or you could do without the input mask and address the Mouse device History directly, as in Set theMouseResponseData = _ CMouseResponseData( Mouse.History(Mouse.History.Count) ) (if you do this, make sure first that the Mouse.History contains at least one mouse click, otherwise you will get a run-time error). Or you could go hard-core and handle the mouse directly (only the mouse (and perhaps the joystick) allows this level of access), e.g., Mouse.GetCursorPos p.x, p.y with other code changes as appropriate (plus code to debounce the mouse, get response time, etc.). I like the second and third approaches since those allow me to write transportable code that does not need to know anything about the stimulus object (and then I do not use any input mask on the stimulus object). I actually used the third approach to write an extensive library of routines to do exactly what you are trying to do, but that was before I understood the device History mechanism, now I might rewrite it to use that approach. (If I ever get that cleaned up enough then I might submit it to STEP to see if they will post it for everyone.) Finally, your code might in fact work by just making the substitutions I suggest, but as it stands that would repeatedly re-test each mouse click until the next one comes. So if you want to look like a real programmer then you will add code to test to see when a new click arrives, and while you are at it clean up some of the other sloppiness that was in the original PST example. I leave that as an exercise for you. I will address your second question in a separate post. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 12/13/2010 10:57 AM Monday, you wrote: >I have two questions that I hope someone can help me figure out the >answers to. > >I'm trying to present a Likert scale on the screen using a Slide and >capture responses using E-Basic. I have working code for this, based >on an example I found on the PST forums. The first issue I am having >is what to do when the user clicks an object that doesn't register as >a scale response. Initially, the code I was using would simply >continue and register the rating as "nothing". However, as I require a >response, I simply used an If... condition that would jump back to a >Label (and start the trial over) unless it was a registered response. >This is the code I have: > >------------- BEGIN CODE > >'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >Dim theState As SlideState >Set theState = F1DStimulus.States("Default") > >Dim theSlideText As SlideText > >Dim strHit As String >Dim intRating As Integer >Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData > > > 'Get the mouse response. > Set theMouseResponseData = >CMouseResponseData(F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > > 'Was there a response? > If F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then > > 'Determine string name of SlideText object at > 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit > strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >theMouseResponseData.CursorY) > > 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? > If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit > <> "Image" And >strHit <> "Instr" Then > > 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected > 'Change appearance of selected sub-object > to provide feedback to >the subject. > Set theSlideText = >CSlideText(F1DStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") > > 'Redraw the Slide to present changes > F1DStimulus.Draw > > 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by > a single digit. The Mid >function is > 'instructed to return the 5th character > (i.e. the digit) of strHit >for logging purposes. > intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) > > 'Log rating in the data file under the > attribute "Rating" > c.SetAttrib "F1DRating", intRating > > Sleep 1000 > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") > > 'The subject did not click a valid sub-object. > Else > 'Restart the trial > GoTo F1DTLabel > End If > > 'The subject did not respond. > Else > 'Restart the trial > GoTo F1DTLabel > End If > >Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE > >------------- END CODE > >The above code works flawlessly. > >The problem I am having now is that I would like to use a Do... Loop >Until in place of the GoTo Label command. With the following code in >place, clicking on a scale position work, but clicking on an invalid >object does not. What happens is that the program fails to capture any >mouse clicks beyond the first one. This is the code I am using: > >------------- BEGIN CODE > >'This file has been modified by Tyler Burleigh - December 11, 2010 > >'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >Dim theState As SlideState >Set theState = F1AStimulus.States("Default") > >Dim theSlideText As SlideText > >Dim strHit As String >Dim intRating As Integer >Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData > >Do > 'Get the mouse response. > Set theMouseResponseData = >CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > > 'Was there a response? > If F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then > > 'Determine string name of SlideText object at > 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit > strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >theMouseResponseData.CursorY) > > 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? > If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit > <> "Image" And >strHit <> "Instr" Then > > 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected > 'Change appearance of selected sub-object > to provide feedback to >the subject. > Set theSlideText = >CSlideText(F1AStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") > > 'Redraw the Slide to present changes > F1AStimulus.Draw > > 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by > a single digit. The Mid >function is > 'instructed to return the 5th character > (i.e. the digit) of strHit >for logging purposes. > intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) > > 'Log rating in the data file under the > attribute "Rating" > c.SetAttrib "F1ARating", intRating > > Sleep 1000 > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") > > End If > End If > >Loop Until (intRating > 0) > >Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE > >------------- END CODE > >Can someone help me identify what may be causing the program to not >register new mouse clicks? I think it's something simple such as a >value not being re-set somewhere, however I tried placing Set >theMouseResponseData = Nothing and intRating = 0 inside the loop >without any luck. > >Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the >name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I >need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, >for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me >countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? > >Thanks, >Tyler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 21:28:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:28:29 -0500 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: <4d068d34.13bbe70a.737d.7429SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hmm, after drafting and posting that lengthy reply, I checked my E-Prime FAQ and found that I had posted another answer to this at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic4009-23-1.aspx , so you might also look there (contains more detailed code, but lacks the detailed explanation). As long as I am at it, I should have declared my variable in my third mouse approach fragment, so here you go: Dim p as Point Mouse.GetCursorPos p.x, p.y -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Tyler, > >Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff >takes any and all questions at >http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they >strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty >much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of >it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend >the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > >That said, here is my take... > >First some explanation, then some pointers toward solutions... > >If I understand correctly the example you found at PST, then your >F1DTLabel lies on the Procedure somewhere before your >F1DStimulus. When the Goto goes back to that label, it re-runs your >F1DStimulus, which then also re-runs its input mask and captures one >more mouse click, which your inline code then processes. But the >Do...Loop code never re-runs the input mask, so you never get >another mouse click. You might get around this by the simple >expedient of replacing your F1DTLabel with a bit of inline code that >simply says > >Do > >and then following up with the approprate Loop Until statement in >the code that follows the stimulus, but I expect you had something >more elegant in mind like handling everything in one inline code object. > >So you would need to have some way for your code to get additional >mouse clicks. In addition, if you run this as an ordinary >self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus Duration of (infinite) and >End Action of (terminate)), then your program does not get to the >inline code until after the first mouse click, so depending on how >you want to play this you might have to also find some way to have >EP run your code as soon as the stimulus is presented. > >So much for explanation, on to solutions. I will address the second >issue first, then the first issue. > >You have two options for running inline code right after >presentation of a stimulus: either set the stimulus Duration to 0, >or set PreRelease >= Duration. Most users will naturally adopt the >first option, and that indeed works best for self-paced >presentations. But if you want the stimulus to time out or the next >stimulus to come at a controlled time later, then your code would >have to also handle the timing. Most users would handle that with >some use of Clock.Read, but by judicious use of PreRelease you can >have your code run and still let EP automatically handle the >stimulus timing for you. (Some day I will write up a proper >explanation of the interactions between Duration, PreRelease, and >NextTargetOnsetTime and post that to the list.) In your case, if >your task involves only a self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus >remains until a response, then moves on), then just set stimulus >Duration to 0. In any case, to collect responses while your code >runs, you would also have to use "Extended Input" (see Appendix C of >the User's Guide that came with E-Prime), e.g., set Time Limit to (infinite). > >OK, now to the code. It all comes down to the line > >Set theMouseResponseData = _ > CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > >As it stands now, that line gets the first, one, and only response >from the input mask. You want to allow for more mouse clicks. I >can think of three approaches here. First, you could use the >Advanced properties to increase the MaxCount to some suitably high >value. Then you might change that line to something like > >Set theMouseResponseData = _ > CMouseResponseData( F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(_ > F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count) ) > >which will now get the latest mouse click each time. Or you could >do without the input mask and address the Mouse device History directly, as in > >Set theMouseResponseData = _ > CMouseResponseData( Mouse.History(Mouse.History.Count) ) > >(if you do this, make sure first that the Mouse.History contains at >least one mouse click, otherwise you will get a run-time error). Or >you could go hard-core and handle the mouse directly (only the mouse >(and perhaps the joystick) allows this level of access), e.g., > >Mouse.GetCursorPos p.x, p.y > >with other code changes as appropriate (plus code to debounce the >mouse, get response time, etc.). > >I like the second and third approaches since those allow me to write >transportable code that does not need to know anything about the >stimulus object (and then I do not use any input mask on the >stimulus object). I actually used the third approach to write an >extensive library of routines to do exactly what you are trying to >do, but that was before I understood the device History mechanism, >now I might rewrite it to use that approach. (If I ever get that >cleaned up enough then I might submit it to STEP to see if they will >post it for everyone.) > >Finally, your code might in fact work by just making the >substitutions I suggest, but as it stands that would repeatedly >re-test each mouse click until the next one comes. So if you want >to look like a real programmer then you will add code to test to see >when a new click arrives, and while you are at it clean up some of >the other sloppiness that was in the original PST example. I leave >that as an exercise for you. > > >I will address your second question in a separate post. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over >public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, >Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > >At 12/13/2010 10:57 AM Monday, you wrote: >>I have two questions that I hope someone can help me figure out the >>answers to. >> >>I'm trying to present a Likert scale on the screen using a Slide and >>capture responses using E-Basic. I have working code for this, based >>on an example I found on the PST forums. The first issue I am having >>is what to do when the user clicks an object that doesn't register as >>a scale response. Initially, the code I was using would simply >>continue and register the rating as "nothing". However, as I require a >>response, I simply used an If... condition that would jump back to a >>Label (and start the trial over) unless it was a registered response. >>This is the code I have: >> >>------------- BEGIN CODE >> >>'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >>'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >>Dim theState As SlideState >>Set theState = F1DStimulus.States("Default") >> >>Dim theSlideText As SlideText >> >>Dim strHit As String >>Dim intRating As Integer >>Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData >> >> >> 'Get the mouse response. >> Set theMouseResponseData = >>CMouseResponseData(F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) >> >> 'Was there a response? >> If F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then >> >> 'Determine string name of SlideText object at >> 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit >> strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >>theMouseResponseData.CursorY) >> >> 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? >> If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And >> strHit <> "Image" And >>strHit <> "Instr" Then >> >> 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected >> 'Change appearance of selected sub-object >> to provide feedback to >>the subject. >> Set theSlideText = >>CSlideText(F1DStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") >> >> 'Redraw the Slide to present changes >> F1DStimulus.Draw >> >> 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed >> by a single digit. The Mid >>function is >> 'instructed to return the 5th character >> (i.e. the digit) of strHit >>for logging purposes. >> intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) >> >> 'Log rating in the data file under the >> attribute "Rating" >> c.SetAttrib "F1DRating", intRating >> >> Sleep 1000 >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") >> >> 'The subject did not click a valid sub-object. >> Else >> 'Restart the trial >> GoTo F1DTLabel >> End If >> >> 'The subject did not respond. >> Else >> 'Restart the trial >> GoTo F1DTLabel >> End If >> >>Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >>Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE >> >>------------- END CODE >> >>The above code works flawlessly. >> >>The problem I am having now is that I would like to use a Do... Loop >>Until in place of the GoTo Label command. With the following code in >>place, clicking on a scale position work, but clicking on an invalid >>object does not. What happens is that the program fails to capture any >>mouse clicks beyond the first one. This is the code I am using: >> >>------------- BEGIN CODE >> >>'This file has been modified by Tyler Burleigh - December 11, 2010 >> >>'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >>'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >>Dim theState As SlideState >>Set theState = F1AStimulus.States("Default") >> >>Dim theSlideText As SlideText >> >>Dim strHit As String >>Dim intRating As Integer >>Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData >> >>Do >> 'Get the mouse response. >> Set theMouseResponseData = >>CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) >> >> 'Was there a response? >> If F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then >> >> 'Determine string name of SlideText object at >> 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit >> strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >>theMouseResponseData.CursorY) >> >> 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? >> If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And >> strHit <> "Image" And >>strHit <> "Instr" Then >> >> 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected >> 'Change appearance of selected sub-object >> to provide feedback to >>the subject. >> Set theSlideText = >>CSlideText(F1AStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") >> >> 'Redraw the Slide to present changes >> F1AStimulus.Draw >> >> 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed >> by a single digit. The Mid >>function is >> 'instructed to return the 5th character >> (i.e. the digit) of strHit >>for logging purposes. >> intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) >> >> 'Log rating in the data file under the >> attribute "Rating" >> c.SetAttrib "F1ARating", intRating >> >> Sleep 1000 >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") >> >> End If >> End If >> >>Loop Until (intRating > 0) >> >>Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >>Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE >> >>------------- END CODE >> >>Can someone help me identify what may be causing the program to not >>register new mouse clicks? I think it's something simple such as a >>value not being re-set somewhere, however I tried placing Set >>theMouseResponseData = Nothing and intRating = 0 inside the loop >>without any luck. >> >>Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the >>name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I >>need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, >>for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me >>countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? >> >>Thanks, >>Tyler > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 21:19:59 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:19:59 -0500 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tyler, >Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the >name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I >need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, >for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me >countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? Indeed, c.GetAttrib("Procedure") will return a string with the name of the current running Procedure (unless it is SessionProc, in which case you get a run-time error). In addition, you can use Rte.GetObject to retrieve any E-Object by name. Please see the appropriate topics in the online E-Basic Help. But this seems a very poor way to get your work done. I don't know enough about your particular experimental task to see why you need 100+ Procedures, nor do I want to know that much. But I have vast experience with EP and other platforms, and I cannot think of a time when some user's large & complex program did not result simply from their poor structure ( which in turn results from a perverse refusal of users to get even the most rudimentary formal training in computer programming ). Time and again users have come to me with a program where they used a different Procedure for any time they wanted to use a different stimulus content, instead of simply changing the stimulus content by using an attribute (from a List or from code), as is shown in Tutorial 1 of the Getting Started Guide. This recurring mistake completely violates the very purpose of a tool like E-Prime, it would be like turning a power drill by hand. On several occasions I have taken some program from a user and reduced it down to a single Procedure that covered all the situtations, controlling contest with attributes, which made the program much more manageable and understandable. So I suspect that your 100+ Procedures problem has more to do with not completely working out the task structure, and rather than adding more complexity in order to get around this, I would implore you to fix the underlying structure. That will pay much bigger dividends. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." -- Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'" (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tybeet at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 00:33:29 2010 From: tybeet at gmail.com (Tyler) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:33:29 -0800 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: <4d069003.44842a0a.3c2e.07aaSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: As I had Inline code beginning my procedure anyway, I simply added a Do statement to the beginning, and left the Loop Until statement where it was, and that fixed that problem. As you suggested, I've also removed the mouse mask instead hard-coding using the GetCursorPos function. Simultaneously, I am migrating the code I am using now which uses a Slide object to Canvas objects instead, and that way I can use conditional statements and drastically economize the number of procedures I will need. Thank you for your help, I've learned quite a bit from your response. Cheers! Tyler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jennaology at yahoo.com Tue Dec 14 08:33:05 2010 From: jennaology at yahoo.com (RB209) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 00:33:05 -0800 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing In-Reply-To: <4d066e14.13bbe70a.6b04.7521SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I had been working from that post but it doesn't work - at least not when I try it. In order to initiate the inline immediately you need to set a large prerelease time (as suggested in the thread) but this interferes with data logging in Eprime. So I can get accurate response triggers using this method but for at least 30% (but sometimes up to 70%) of trials no data is logged by Eprime. : ( On Dec 13, 7:03 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Did you see the thread athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307...? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 12/13/2010 08:25 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time > >a participant makes a response. > > >I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide > >object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like > >triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact > >point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for > >2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is > >followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). > > >The first issue is fine. I use ... > > >slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true > >slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 > >slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with > >a possible response. > >sleep (10) > >writeport, &H37, 0 > > >However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have > >been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the > >participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. > >Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being > >sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if > >I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide > >duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the > >slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time > >although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it > >causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs > >about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no > >matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR > >response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to > >clear everything but still having problems). > > >I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been > >trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous > >discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments > >but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to > >achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way > >that works.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Dec 14 20:51:05 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:51:05 -0500 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing In-Reply-To: <31314263-a327-456a-8514-caa8e321560b@s9g2000vby.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Then something else is going on. As explained in Chapter 3 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime, EP will fail to log data whenever your program reaches the end of the Procedure before it gets a response, and in some specific situations a PreRelease will exacerbate that. (If you look at the generated code you will see why -- EP puts the requested c.SetAttrib commands and a c.Log just before the End Sub of a Procedure, so once your program runs past that it is too late.) But the code under discussion specifically holds up the code until it gets a response, so, PreRelease notwithstanding, there is no way that it could fail to log the response unless you are doing something wacky with your attribute logging. As also suggested in that example you could set Duration to 0, but you say you have also tried that and it does not work. All I can tell you is that the posted code has worked flawlessly for us, exactly as used & described in that thread. So at this point you need to submit a request to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and have them help you sort it out (and then please post back here with their response). BTW, I trust that the line writeport, &H37, 0 in your post is a typo, because if that really is in your code then you would likely get no 0 signal at all out to your device, because the proper line would be writeport, &H378, 0 -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I had been working from that post but it doesn't work - at least not >when I try it. In order to initiate the inline immediately you need to >set a large prerelease time (as suggested in the thread) but this >interferes with data logging in Eprime. So I can get accurate response >triggers using this method but for at least 30% (but sometimes up to >70%) of trials no data is logged by Eprime. : ( > > >On Dec 13, 7:03 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Did you see the thread > athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307...? > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 12/13/2010 08:25 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time > > >a participant makes a response. > > > > >I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide > > >object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like > > >triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact > > >point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for > > >2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is > > >followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). > > > > >The first issue is fine. I use ... > > > > >slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true > > >slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 > > >slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with > > >a possible response. > > >sleep (10) > > >writeport, &H37, 0 > > > > >However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have > > >been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the > > >participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. > > >Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being > > >sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if > > >I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide > > >duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the > > >slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time > > >although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it > > >causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs > > >about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no > > >matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR > > >response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to > > >clear everything but still having problems). > > > > >I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been > > >trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous > > >discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments > > >but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to > > >achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way > > >that works.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ingvalson at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 19:51:50 2010 From: ingvalson at gmail.com (Erin) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:51:50 -0800 Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm Message-ID: Hi All- I'm developing an adaptive training experiment that will take place over several days. Within a day, the difficulty of a given block will depend on the Ss performance on the previous block. The next day's session will require the experimenter to enter what difficulty level to start at, mostly because I can't think how to get E-Prime to store this information between sessions. I think the best way to do this is to have difficulty as an attribute called Condition. The experimenter enters this at the beginning, then c.GetAttrib("Condition") sets the difficulty level. After n trials, an in-line script checks the accuracy and uses c.SetAttrib("Condition") for the next block. I think it makes the most sense to have each difficulty level as its own procedure and list all these procedures in List1. After n blocks, the experiment would terminate. The problem I'm having is that I can't figure out how to call procedures from List1 based on a particular Condition. For example, if the experimenter enters Condition 1, I want to call and run Procedure 1. After say 25 trials, I want to set Condition to 2 then run Procedure 2. Does anyone know how to do this? Or is there a better way to code this experiment? Thanks. -Erin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Dec 16 09:56:02 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:56:02 +0000 Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm In-Reply-To: <8b9c37a5-22df-43f9-a715-60dc9c9af29a@o23g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hiya, Some suggestions: - You might want to add 'CurrentDay' as a startup parameter (edit>experiment) so that E-Prime asks specifically at the beginning of the experiment which day it is (I always add a few extra variables there). Then, if you call it indeed CurrentDay, c.GetAttrib("CurrentDay") will read whatever is entered. You could also write down performance level on a piece of paper and add that as a startup variable. - By the way, you can have one list, each with one procedure, and use 'order by': session. Then, at session two, the second level is automatically selected, and I think that answers your question directly (as for different days, but not for specific difficulty). - Next, running of procedures can be done, I think, but is neither easy nor recommended. If you must, you could save performance level, save it to some global variable (e.g. performance = performance + mystimulus.acc), and do something like the following in between two lists (the next one being List2 here, it has two levels and two procedures, one for low performance, lvl1, one for high performance lvl2): If performance >= 6 then 'if at least 6 answers were correct List2.SetWeight 1, 0 'sets level 1 to 0 so that low performance is skipped Else List2.SetWeight 2, 0 'sets level 2 to 0 so that high performance is skipped End If List2.Reset 'this is necessary. Beautiful, no? - Yet, if you can do the above, you must be able to think up some way of not using different procedures - you will only make it difficult for yourself. I cannot easily conceive of a reason why different procedures would give you any benefit, unless the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. In a stop-signal task, for instance (which often has an adaptive aspect), we tend to do count the number of wrong answers and adjust the stop-signal delay accordingly. It has only one procedure. Often, I have a training which uses the exact same procedure as the normal trial, with a bit of code for extra feedback and so on. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erin Sent: 15 December 2010 19:52 To: E-Prime Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm Hi All- I'm developing an adaptive training experiment that will take place over several days. Within a day, the difficulty of a given block will depend on the Ss performance on the previous block. The next day's session will require the experimenter to enter what difficulty level to start at, mostly because I can't think how to get E-Prime to store this information between sessions. I think the best way to do this is to have difficulty as an attribute called Condition. The experimenter enters this at the beginning, then c.GetAttrib("Condition") sets the difficulty level. After n trials, an in-line script checks the accuracy and uses c.SetAttrib("Condition") for the next block. I think it makes the most sense to have each difficulty level as its own procedure and list all these procedures in List1. After n blocks, the experiment would terminate. The problem I'm having is that I can't figure out how to call procedures from List1 based on a particular Condition. For example, if the experimenter enters Condition 1, I want to call and run Procedure 1. After say 25 trials, I want to set Condition to 2 then run Procedure 2. Does anyone know how to do this? Or is there a better way to code this experiment? Thanks. -Erin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 10:18:00 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 02:18:00 -0800 Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20B5948B@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: In addition, and this is something that I probably wouldn't bother to implement unless you really want it, you could have e-prime write the achieved level of difficulty into a .txt file (a separate file for each subject) at the end of one session. At the next session this .txt file could be read again by the program and the stored difficulty level could be used again. best, liw On Dec 16, 10:56 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hiya, > Some suggestions: > - You might want to add 'CurrentDay' as a startup parameter (edit>experiment) so that E-Prime asks specifically at the beginning of the experiment which day it is (I always add a few extra variables there). Then, if you call it indeed CurrentDay, c.GetAttrib("CurrentDay") will read whatever is entered. You could also write down performance level on a piece of paper and add that as a startup variable. > - By the way, you can have one list, each with one procedure, and use 'order by': session. Then, at session two, the second level is automatically selected, and I think that answers your question directly (as for different days, but not for specific difficulty). > - Next, running of procedures can be done, I think, but is neither easy nor recommended. If you must, you could save performance level, save it to some global variable (e.g. performance = performance + mystimulus.acc), and do something like the following in between two lists (the next one being List2 here, it has two levels and two procedures, one for low performance, lvl1, one for high performance lvl2): > If performance >= 6 then 'if at least 6 answers were correct >         List2.SetWeight 1, 0 'sets level 1 to 0 so that low performance is skipped > Else >         List2.SetWeight 2, 0 'sets level 2 to 0 so that high performance is skipped > End If > List2.Reset 'this is necessary. > > Beautiful, no? > - Yet, if you can do the above, you must be able to think up some way of not using different procedures - you will only make it difficult for yourself. I cannot easily conceive of a reason why different procedures would give you any benefit, unless the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. In a stop-signal task, for instance (which often has an adaptive aspect), we tend to do count the number of wrong answers and adjust the stop-signal delay accordingly. It has only one procedure. Often, I have a training which uses the exact same procedure as the normal trial, with a bit of code for extra feedback and so on. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erin > Sent: 15 December 2010 19:52 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm > > Hi All- > > I'm developing an adaptive training experiment that will take place > over several days. Within a day, the difficulty of a given block will > depend on the Ss performance on the previous block. The next day's > session will require the experimenter to enter what difficulty level > to start at, mostly because I can't think how to get E-Prime to store > this information between sessions. > > I think the best way to do this is to have difficulty as an attribute > called Condition. The experimenter enters this at the beginning, then > c.GetAttrib("Condition") sets the difficulty level. After n trials, an > in-line script checks the accuracy and uses c.SetAttrib("Condition") > for the next block. > > I think it makes the most sense to have each difficulty level as its > own procedure and list all these procedures in List1. After n blocks, > the experiment would terminate. The problem I'm having is that I can't > figure out how to call procedures from List1 based on a particular > Condition. For example, if the experimenter enters Condition 1, I want > to call and run Procedure 1. After say 25 trials, I want to set > Condition to 2 then run Procedure 2. > > Does anyone know how to do this? Or is there a better way to code this > experiment? > > Thanks. > > -Erin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Dec 1 09:34:24 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 09:34:24 +0000 Subject: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, One thing to add to what has already been said: are we talking about error: overflow, or error: buffer overflow? The former is generally really simply helped, it tends to be caused by a variable defined as integer but then getting a long number assigned to it, for instance: Dim a As Variant Dim i As Integer i = -32768 a = Abs(i) 'Result is a Long. i = Abs(i) 'Overflow! (from ebasic help) That is, an integer can only have values assigned to it between -32768 and (+)32767, thus assigning Abs(-32768) [results in +32768) causes an overflow. This would explain your scenario as follows: you have, for instance, a cumulative reaction time (or the sum of RTs), which sooner (if participants are really slow) or later (if they aren't) causes the overflow by reaching higher than 32767. Personally, I often get this because I define a variable as integer and do constant clock.read (which gets the time in ms from the onset of the experiment). This causes an overflow after less than a minute. Anyway, the error can usually be solved by defining the variable as long (or variant, but a curse rests on such ill-defined types) instead of integer. The latter (buffer overflow) is presumably associated with your neuroscan setup, which, I would expect, uses serial port communication. I would have predicted that something like 'flushoutputbuffer' might have helped you, but, according to the help file: "This function is reserved for future use. Serial output communications are synchronous. Data is always flushed from the output buffer after write operations are called." Did the future come with E-Prime 2? Are you using E-Prime 2? Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson Sent: 30 November 2010 20:20 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer which program is giving you the "Buffer Overflow" error, eprime or neuroscan? if eprime, does eprime crash when the error occurs? can you see where you were in the script when i crashes, and does it always crash at the same place in the script? On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Jessica Miller > wrote: Hello! We have Neuroscan 4.5 collecting ERP data while E-Prime presents the experiment to participants. Recently we have been getting a "Buffer Overflow" error message as soon as 15 minutes into an experiment and as late as 1 hour 20 minutes. I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if it is a problem with the data being sent from E- Prime to Neuroscan, or if it is another problem. Both computers that we use meet all requirements for both software packages, and were fully upgraded (RAM, video memory, etc) in the last month. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jess.cogneuro at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:50:03 2010 From: jess.cogneuro at gmail.com (Jessica Miller) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 05:50:03 -0800 Subject: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20B58D08@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thank you for the input, everyone!! This is all good food-for-thought, as I've only been working with E-Prime and Neuroscan less than two years. I'm sorry for not being more clear in my original post. Providing a script in this post would not be of much help because I get "Error: Buffer Overflow" in Neuroscan 4.5 with numerous E-Prime 2 experiments. The E-Prime computer is connected via parallel ports, and the hookup with Neuroscan equipment and Neuroscan computer is a mix of serial and usb ports. I realize that the problem is most likely Neuroscan, but I have been in constant contact with our technician who tells me there is little he can do after upgrading the computers. Thus, I thought perhaps it is a common problem with E-Prime (not specific to any particular experiment, but the software in general). When Neurscan crashes E-Prime continues on, thus causing us to lose precious data. Again, I posted on here hoping someone had a similar problem and could tell me if they had a problem with the E-Prime software, the ports on either computer, a cable connection, or the Neuroscan software. I apologize if it isn't the most appropriate place to post this question. Thanks for any help! On Dec 1, 4:34?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > One thing to add to what has already been said: are we talking about error: overflow, or error: buffer overflow? > The former is generally really simply helped, it tends to be caused by a variable defined as integer but then getting a long number assigned to it, for instance: > Dim a As Variant > Dim i As Integer > i = -32768 > a = Abs(i) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 'Result is a Long. > i = Abs(i) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'Overflow! > (from ebasic help) > That is, an integer can only have values assigned to it between -32768 and (+)32767, thus assigning Abs(-32768) [results in +32768) causes an overflow. This would explain your scenario as follows: you have, for instance, a cumulative reaction time (or the sum of RTs), which sooner (if participants are really slow) or later (if they aren't) causes the overflow by reaching higher than 32767. Personally, I often get this because I define a variable as integer and do constant clock.read (which gets the time in ms from the onset of the experiment). This causes an overflow after less than a minute. ?Anyway, the error can usually be solved by defining the variable as long (or variant, but a curse rests on such ill-defined types) instead of integer. > > The latter (buffer overflow) is presumably associated with your neuroscan setup, which, I would expect, uses serial port communication. I would have predicted that something like 'flushoutputbuffer' might have helped you, but, according to the help file: > "This function is reserved for future use. ?Serial output communications are synchronous. ?Data is always flushed from the output buffer after write operations are called." > Did the future come with E-Prime 2? Are you using E-Prime 2? > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson > Sent: 30 November 2010 20:20 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer > > which program is giving you the "Buffer Overflow" error, eprime or neuroscan? ?if eprime, does eprime crash when the error occurs? ?can you see where you were in the script when i crashes, and does it always crash at the same place in the script? > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Jessica Miller > wrote: > Hello! > > We have Neuroscan 4.5 collecting ERP data while E-Prime presents the > experiment to participants. Recently we have been getting a "Buffer > Overflow" error message as soon as 15 minutes into an experiment and > as late as 1 hour 20 minutes. I am wondering if anyone else has had > this problem and if it is a problem with the data being sent from E- > Prime to Neuroscan, or if it is another problem. Both computers that > we use meet all requirements for both software packages, and were > fully upgraded (RAM, video memory, etc) in the last month. > > Any suggestions would be much appreciated. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Dec 1 19:23:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:23:56 -0500 Subject: Neuroscan/E-Prime Buffer In-Reply-To: <8c72def8-93e2-4d0b-872d-92965bf94bc7@d24g2000prj.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jessica, >Providing a script in this post would not be of much help because I >get "Error: Buffer Overflow" in Neuroscan 4.5 with numerous E-Prime 2 >experiments. The E-Prime computer is connected via parallel ports, and >the hookup with Neuroscan equipment and Neuroscan computer is a mix of >serial and usb ports. I realize that the problem is most likely >Neuroscan, but I have been in constant contact with our technician who >tells me there is little he can do after upgrading the computers. >Thus, I thought perhaps it is a common problem with E-Prime (not >specific to any particular experiment, but the software in general). >When Neurscan crashes E-Prime continues on, thus causing us to lose >precious data. Based on this description, I would say that EP works just fine, and the fault lies entirely with Neuroscan. So you will have to take this up with the Neuroscan folks. But if you want to pursue this a little further yourself, then try the following exercise: Disconnect EP from the Neuroscan equipment. Then run a mock ERP session wth the Neuroscan system. I bet that if you do this enough that you will still get the "Buffer Overflow" error on the Neuroscan, even with EP removed from the system. That should satisfy you that EP contributes nothing to the problem, and the fault lies entirely with the Neuroscan setup. >Both computers that we use meet all requirements for both software >packages, and were fully upgraded (RAM, video memory, etc) in the last month. As to that, did the system work fine before the upgrades, and the problem arose after the upgrades? If so, then I would just remove the upgrades. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nateaschreiber at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 16:08:47 2010 From: nateaschreiber at gmail.com (Nate) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 08:08:47 -0800 Subject: EEG Pulse Duration with Onsetsignal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So to close this- the pulse duration was the duration of the stimulus in this instance. This was actually not a problem, as Brain Vision only looks at the onset of the pulse, not the duration of the pulse. So, all is well! On Nov 16, 11:50?pm, Nate wrote: > Yes it's ridiculous. ?It's even more ridiculous that our lab paid for > one...but we don't really have a dedicated tech staff. ?(Have you seen > how much the electrode caps cost?! I would be willing to quit my job > and sit at home and make them myself for that price.) > > Thanks for the help on the pin placement- I'll check this out. ?If > anything it is a good lesson in parallel port communication. > > On Nov 16, 4:41?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Wow, BioSemi wants $100 for a simple 25-pin D-sub to 37-pin D-sub > > cable? ?I could build one from parts for a lot less than that, and > > then I would know exactly what it does. ?But anyway... ?I would just > > work on the 25-pin connector on the E-Prime end (and in fact I would > > add a straight-through 25-pin cable just to make my work > > easier). ?That pinout remains the same for Presentation and EP. ?Then > > yes, your negative lead goes to ground (pin 25; you can Google to get > > several pinout diagrams, pay attention to gender). ?Then you have to > > know how to translate decimal to binary, and be aware that we count > > bits from low to high. ?The value 9 comes to binary 00001001, which > > means that it would raise a signal on pins 2 and 5. ?So put the > > positive lead of the meter on either of these (you will of course try > > both those pins plus a few others just to complete the exercise and > > to see if I really know what I am talking about). ?If you then still > > wanted to see how the signal makes it through the BioSemi cable, then > > it looks like you put leads from pin 37 to pins 1 or 4 at the end of > > the BioSemi cable. > > > Sorry, I can't help at all with the Brain Vision issues. > > > -- David McFarlane, Profesional Faultfinder > > > >This is indeed VERY helpful. ?If I was to measure the duration of the > > >pulse (the trigger sent is actually '9') using a voltmeter, I would > > >then connect the negative wire to the incoming PCI-DIO cable ground > > >hole (which one is this?) and the positive lead would then connect > > >to...hmm the chart below does not show 9.... > > > >This shows the pin mapping for this, but there is an error on the page > > >and I also can't tell which chart is actually for eprime. > > >http://www.biosemi.com/faq/presentation.htm > > > >Onto the other method/explanation: in this example then, I do not have > > >a prerelease for this particular slide, so the pulse duration is > > >probably1500ms. ?Other triggers/slides are of different durations and > > >are hopefully not relevant.... > > > >However, now comes the potential problem of analysis in Brain Vision > > >analyzer, though I am not sure this is the correct forum for this (but > > >then again, I have not found a BV forum anywhere). ?Anyways, if anyone > > >is familiar with this, I would really appreciate some input, as I am > > >kind of lost: > > > >I have been told that the triggers/markers (or only the one marker of > > >interest?) need to be moved based on the length of the pulse. ? ?So > > >in ?this example the 5 (or 9 in my instance) marker would need to be > > >moved with an offset of 1500 ms. Anyone know if this is true? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From S.Mobini at uea.ac.uk Thu Dec 2 20:34:41 2010 From: S.Mobini at uea.ac.uk (S.Mobini at uea.ac.uk) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:34:41 -0000 Subject: E-Prime course in UK Message-ID: Hi, does anyone know any formal E-prime course in the UK and how much does it cost? thanks Sirous -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hahajy15 at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 01:34:37 2010 From: hahajy15 at gmail.com (coglab760) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 17:34:37 -0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! Message-ID: To whom it may concerned, Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha Womans University. We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a naming task. Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box and the voice key. However, the SR box doesn't work. The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be a problem. And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. How can I fix this? Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such as the microphone? Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. Thank you. Sincerely, Jiyoon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From meg.andrejczuk at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 02:30:18 2010 From: meg.andrejczuk at gmail.com (Megan Andrejczuk) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 21:30:18 -0500 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <727f947b-cd5e-4aee-87ee-8331a120da84@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test the other functions? On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" wrote: > To whom it may concerned, > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > Womans University. > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > naming task. > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > and the voice key. > However, the SR box doesn't work. > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > a problem. > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > How can I fix this? > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > as the microphone? > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > Jiyoon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nusphd at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 03:54:17 2010 From: nusphd at gmail.com (Lidia Suarez) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 11:54:17 +0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jiyoon, This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that when Eprime was installed, "yes" was pressed to a message asking whether you are using SR box or one message alike. Regards, Lidia On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk wrote: > Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test the other > functions? > On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" wrote: > > To whom it may concerned, > > > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > > Womans University. > > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > > naming task. > > > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > > and the voice key. > > However, the SR box doesn't work. > > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > > a problem. > > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > > How can I fix this? > > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > > as the microphone? > > > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > > Thank you. > > > > Sincerely, > > Jiyoon > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Dec 6 06:00:03 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 06:00:03 +0000 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, This should indeed be the correct answer - that is to say, if the lights on the SR Box stay on, it means the SR Box is not correctly installed - either on the computer or on the experiment. Therefore: - Try the SRBox example programs from PST - if THEY don't work, you can be pretty sure it's not YOUR experiment that is the problem. - If they indeed don't work, try reinstalling E-Prime (it should try to install drivers for the SRBox - if you or someone had selected 'please don't install unverified drivers', it will have gone awry). - Check to see what Com Port the SRBox is actually on. If you don't know how, ask your system administrator. E-Prime can only address com ports 1-4, for some reason, so if you have installed a ton of other stuff that uses these (i run into that problem quite often), you may have some difficulty. Best, Mich ________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lidia Suarez [nusphd at gmail.com] Sent: 04 December 2010 03:54 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: need answers for SRbox, plz! Hi Jiyoon, This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that when Eprime was installed, "yes" was pressed to a message asking whether you are using SR box or one message alike. Regards, Lidia On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk > wrote: Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test the other functions? On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" > wrote: > To whom it may concerned, > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > Womans University. > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > naming task. > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > and the voice key. > However, the SR box doesn't work. > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > a problem. > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > How can I fix this? > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > as the microphone? > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > Jiyoon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 6 18:03:31 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 13:03:31 -0500 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20BCCE67@EXCHANGE3.ad.no ttingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Jiyoon, On top of all that, please submit a request to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp . After all, it is their job to make sure that you have all the instructions you need in order to make their equipment work. Tell them that I sent you :). Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/6/2010 01:00 AM Monday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >This should indeed be the correct answer - that is to say, if the >lights on the SR Box stay on, it means the SR Box is not correctly >installed - either on the computer or on the experiment. Therefore: >- Try the SRBox example programs from PST - if THEY don't work, you >can be pretty sure it's not YOUR experiment that is the problem. >- If they indeed don't work, try reinstalling E-Prime (it should try >to install drivers for the SRBox - if you or someone had selected >'please don't install unverified drivers', it will have gone awry). >- Check to see what Com Port the SRBox is actually on. If you don't >know how, ask your system administrator. E-Prime can only address >com ports 1-4, for some reason, so if you have installed a ton of >other stuff that uses these (i run into that problem quite often), >you may have some difficulty. >Best, >Mich > > >---------- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf >Of Lidia Suarez [nusphd at gmail.com] >Sent: 04 December 2010 03:54 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: Re: need answers for SRbox, plz! > >Hi Jiyoon, > >This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried >to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will >be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. >If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does >not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device >in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that >when Eprime was installed, "yes" was pressed to a message asking >whether you are using SR box or one message alike. > >Regards, >Lidia > > > >On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk ><meg.andrejczuk at gmail.com> wrote: > >Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test >the other functions? >On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" ><hahajy15 at gmail.com> wrote: > > To whom it may concerned, > > > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > > Womans University. > > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > > naming task. > > > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > > and the voice key. > > However, the SR box doesn't work. > > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > > a problem. > > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > > How can I fix this? > > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > > as the microphone? > > > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > > Thank you. > > > > Sincerely, > > Jiyoon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tatem.elizabeth at gmail.com Tue Dec 7 20:58:24 2010 From: tatem.elizabeth at gmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 12:58:24 -0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <4cfd2578.9e8de70a.5873.ffffdba4SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am also having a lot of difficulty with SR Box. We are running Windows 7, but working with another lab that has the same computers who are running things just fine. We are doing response time measurements and getting the "no reponse detected message." Also, it works once, the first time we turn everything on, but we have multiple sets and can't get it to move to the next and detect the keys. Does anyone have any other ideas? Elizabeth University of Houston On Dec 6, 12:03?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jiyoon, > > On top of all that, please submit a request to PST Web Support athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp. ?After all, > it is their job to make sure that you have all the instructions you > need in order to make their equipment work. ?Tell them that I sent you :). > > Regards, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 12/6/2010 01:00 AM Monday, Michiel Spape wrote: > > > > >Hi, > >This should indeed be the correct answer - that is to say, if the > >lights on the SR Box stay on, it means the SR Box is not correctly > >installed - either on the computer or on the experiment. Therefore: > >- Try the SRBox example programs from PST - if THEY don't work, you > >can be pretty sure it's not YOUR experiment that is the problem. > >- If they indeed don't work, try reinstalling E-Prime (it should try > >to install drivers for the SRBox - if you or someone had selected > >'please don't install unverified drivers', it will have gone awry). > >- Check to see what Com Port the SRBox is actually on. If you don't > >know how, ask your system administrator. E-Prime can only address > >com ports 1-4, for some reason, so if you have installed a ton of > >other stuff that uses these (i run into that problem quite often), > >you may have some difficulty. > >Best, > >Mich > > >---------- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf > >Of Lidia Suarez [nus... at gmail.com] > >Sent: 04 December 2010 03:54 > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >Subject: Re: need answers for SRbox, plz! > > >Hi Jiyoon, > > >This may sound stupid...but you may give it a try...have you tried > >to switch on the SR box before the computer is on? The lights will > >be on but then when you run the experiment the lights should go off. > >If I switch on the box once the Eprime is open, the computer does > >not recognise the device. Also make sure you have added that device > >in your experiment (check the manual). Also you can make sure that > >when Eprime was installed, ?"yes" was pressed to a message asking > >whether you are using SR box or one message alike. > > >Regards, > >Lidia > > >On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Megan Andrejczuk > ><meg.andrejc... at gmail.com> wrote: > > >Have you used the test software that comes with the srbox to test > >the other functions? > >On Dec 3, 2010 8:34 PM, "coglab760" > ><hahaj... at gmail.com> wrote: > > > To whom it may concerned, > > > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > > > Womans University. > > > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > > > naming task. > > > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > > > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > > > and the voice key. > > > However, the SR box doesn't work. > > > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > > > a problem. > > > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > > > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > > > How can I fix this? > > > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > > > as the microphone? > > > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > > > Thank you. > > > > Sincerely, > > > Jiyoon- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hahajy15 at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 00:59:01 2010 From: hahajy15 at gmail.com (coglab760) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 16:59:01 -0800 Subject: need answers for SRbox, plz! In-Reply-To: <727f947b-cd5e-4aee-87ee-8331a120da84@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Thank you all. I've tried doing the followings answers, but I think the comport makes some problem I can't handle with. Anyhow, I am so pleased to find this group! Regards, Jiyoon On 12?4?, ??10?34?, coglab760 wrote: > To whom it may concerned, > > Hello, I'm on the master program in Cognitive Phychology at Ewha > Womans University. > We have some problems to use the SR box for our experiment using a > naming task. > > Our lab have recently perchased a new computer and E-Prime 2.0. > We want to make a procedure for a naming experiment using the SR box > and the voice key. > However, the SR box doesn't work. > The lights of the buttons of the box are always on, which seems to be > a problem. > And the keys cannot be detected by E-Prime. > > We use Windows XP with Inter Core Quad. > I've already tried to change com port numbers, but it didn't work. > How can I fix this? > Or do you think there could be another problems besides the box, such > as the microphone? > > Any Answers Welcomed and Appreciated. > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > Jiyoon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Thu Dec 9 11:32:13 2010 From: thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au (Merry Ha) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:32:13 +1100 Subject: eprime capabilities Message-ID: Hi, I'm a speech pathology honours student from the University of Sydney working on my project at the moment using e-prime for the first time. My honours project will be used for children with Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the screen visually and auditorily, and then have the child to imitate the computer, or read off the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment was to have the computer judge and provide feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be calculated using a pairwise variability index (PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Dec 9 12:27:24 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 12:27:24 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <012f01cb9794$bc2b9d40$3482d7c0$@uni.sydney.edu.au> Message-ID: Hi, What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? "whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be calculated using a pairwise variability index (PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)" would mean that the computer A) records vocal responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I'd imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic - let e-prime record responses and so on, and then have the experimenter classify the words immediately after the participant says them (I mean, after every trial, for instance), this would be possible. If you wish to know whether E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order analysis, the answer is no (unless you are REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which case you could do the same with much more ease in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, I classified the subjects' responses (tip for those thinking of it: classify the first letter of their literal response ('g' if green, for instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ will have a Stroop effect as well as the subjects!) as well. You will have to endure [number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. Hope that helps, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: eprime capabilities Hi, I'm a speech pathology honours student from the University of Sydney working on my project at the moment using e-prime for the first time. My honours project will be used for children with Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the screen visually and auditorily, and then have the child to imitate the computer, or read off the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment was to have the computer judge and provide feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be calculated using a pairwise variability index (PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Dec 9 15:52:40 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:52:40 -0500 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20B591D4@EXCHANGE3.ad.no ttingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >?whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)? >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I?d >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects? responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response (?g? if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Fri Dec 10 06:50:30 2010 From: thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au (thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 06:50:30 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <4d00fb4b.9915e70a.2801.ffffd36bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sorry for the confusion. I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. Thanks for your help. ________________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >?whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)? >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I?d >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects? responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response (?g? if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Dec 10 10:09:54 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:09:54 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <73F28666D01D6A4FBF7412122912060B014E3D@BL2PRD0103MB060.prod.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: Hiya, Thanks for the clarification. I understand what you want e-prime, or some other psycho-prog to do, but if so, you may still ask yourself HOW MUCH you want to do this - because it will be difficult. The thing is, to my knowledge, nobody has written an automated script to do the thing you want, which would be: 1. Recording vocal responses to buffer (to .wav would be probably too slow - real signal analysis software can do this sort of thing on the fly, but I'd imagine you just might be able to come up with something based on a flow of save-to-wav then read-from-disk then analysis then feedback, but read on) 2. Analysis using sophisticated signal analysis. Language labs may have that kind of thing, but those I know prefer to do this off-line (outside the experiment) because it is VERY tricky indeed. For example, you might (at least most people do) think syllables can be easily observed in a wave-form, so that the word 'programming' has a wave-form of roughly 3 distinct waves 'pro' 'gram' 'ming'. After finding out what the first wave is (thus, the first syllable), you will easily see which was has the higher volume, and thus detect stress, right? (I see PVI detects it based on syllable duration, but the point is merely to illustrate the difficulty of connecting the higher to the lower order - loudness to wave amplitude, here) No, the spaces seldom exist, words, as waveforms, are often jumbled together, syllables may be bigger points of empty sounds than actual spaces, or vice versa (thus two words will be detected as one, or vice versa), there's _massive_ variance between participants, and, more annoyingly, between separate phonemes (P sounds produce big 'pops', for instance). Then, the 'high volume' means either high peaks, high absolute averages (envelope), high RMS? A P-pop, for instance, has a much higher peak than the (very subtle) difference between stress, therefore making it really quite difficult to 'see' stress in syllables, let alone programming it so a pc can do it automatically. Having produced quite a bit of spoken word music, myself, I lack the ability to see stress in wave-forms, actually... I am almost certain that normal stimulus presentation software (e-prime, DMDX, superlab, etc) might be able to do what you want it to do - but you'd need great amounts of experience both in advanced signal processing and (to use such knowledge in the way you want it to) lots in programming languages. You might, if you go that path, find it much easier to work using matlab, which has signal processing scripts pre-written (and, presumably, language labs doing the sort of thing you want, have scripts to work out), which should make things a lot easier. Also, PsychoPy might be able to help you, since you could presumably incorporate pre-written Python scripts. My apologies if this all sounds very drastic, I'm mainly trying to show you that, as David pointed out, it is more difficult than you may think. Perhaps this is because E-Prime (and similar software) seems to have been designed for experimental psychology (priming experiments, etc) rather than as a piece of all-purpose experimentation/analysis software. What you want, then, sounds a bit like me hoping E-Prime (or such software) will not only present my stimuli, but also analyse EEG and give biofeedback. The easiest way I could think of to have E-Prime do what you want is to employ a similar setup: have one computer (with the speech analysis software running) connected to another one (serial cable) and another running E-Prime (granted, it's not a *very* easy solution). In summary then, three thoughts: try Matlab (and see if you can get a speech analysis toolkit for matlab), try psychopy (and see if you can get a speech toolkit in Python) and try to find a dedicated, automated speech analysis toolkit from some place that might work in conjunction with other bits of software. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Sent: 10 December 2010 06:50 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Sorry for the confusion. I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. Thanks for your help. ________________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >"whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)" >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I'd >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects' responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response ('g' if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. 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From pquain at une.edu.au Fri Dec 10 07:14:24 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 18:14:24 +1100 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <73F28666D01D6A4FBF7412122912060B014E3D@BL2PRD0103MB060.pro d.exchangelabs.com> Message-ID: My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would do, no matter how you fiddle. At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: >Sorry for the confusion. > >I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and >determine whether the duration of the first >syllable is longer than the second syllable, and >vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do >real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. >PVI is a calculation equation about the duration >of syllables to determine stress, that I assume >would have to be part of the programming script >in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am >fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. > >Thanks for your help. >________________________________________ >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] >Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: RE: eprime capabilities > >Merry, > >I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich >to your question. EP can readily present your >visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, >and might even collect the subjects' responses >(EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into >.wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... >whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly >understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal >recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall >order! Do you know of any other current software >or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW >stress, but do so reliably enough to pass >scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, >based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? > >To be sure, in principle EP might well be >*capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it >would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. > >But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: > >Hi, > >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? > >?whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or > >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be > >calculated using a pairwise variability index > >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a > >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)? > >would mean that the computer A) records vocal > >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal > >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I?d > >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic > >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and > >then have the experimenter classify the words > >immediately after the participant says them (I > >mean, after every trial, for instance), this > >would be possible. If you wish to know whether > >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order > >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are > >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which > >case you could do the same with much more ease > >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal > >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis > >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > > > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much > >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few > >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, > >I classified the subjects? responses (tip for > >those thinking of it: classify the first letter > >of their literal response (?g? if green, for > >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ > >will have a Stroop effect as well as the > >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure > >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > > > >Hope that helps, > >Mich > > > > > >Michiel Spap? > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > >www.cognitology.eu > > > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha > >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >Subject: eprime capabilities > > > >Hi, > >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the > >University of Sydney working on my project at > >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My > >honours project will be used for children with > >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > > > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the > >screen visually and auditorily, and then have > >the child to imitate the computer, or read off > >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words > >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment > >was to have the computer judge and provide > >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong > >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be > >calculated using a pairwise variability index > >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a > >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). > >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > > > >Merry > >-- >You received this message because you are >subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > >-- >You received this message because you are >subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nusphd at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 02:42:39 2010 From: nusphd at gmail.com (Lidia Suarez) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:42:39 +0800 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: <201012101239.oBACdI37016470@mail14.tpg.com.au> Message-ID: Thanks Michiel for all the suggestions. Yes, it is very difficult to identify syllable boundaries because of co-articulation. Merry, note that lexical stress is defined by changes in pitch, duration, and intensity. All three features are interrelated, choosing just duration may be not enough. Therefore, you may need to support the results given by the software with some kind of "human" rating. For example, you could have two judges and calculate inter-rater agreement or have a sample of "naive/healthy" participants to rate lexical stress of the words pronounced by children with CAS. On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Peter Quain wrote: > > My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to > sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is > this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing > software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to > accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when > needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would > do, no matter how you fiddle. > > > > At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: > >> Sorry for the confusion. >> >> I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the >> duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice >> versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant >> feedback on the responses. >> PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine >> stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in >> order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if >> it is able to do this kind of analysis. >> >> Thanks for your help. >> ________________________________________ >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of >> David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] >> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM >> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: eprime capabilities >> >> Merry, >> >> I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich >> to your question. EP can readily present your >> visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, >> and might even collect the subjects' responses >> (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into >> .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... >> whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >> strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly >> understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal >> recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall >> order! Do you know of any other current software >> or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW >> stress, but do so reliably enough to pass >> scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, >> based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? >> >> To be sure, in principle EP might well be >> *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it >> would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be >> *practical*. >> >> But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. >> >> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >> At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >> >Hi, >> >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >> >?whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >> >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)? >> >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >> >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >> >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I?d >> >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >> >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >> >then have the experimenter classify the words >> >immediately after the participant says them (I >> >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >> >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >> >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >> >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >> >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >> >case you could do the same with much more ease >> >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >> >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >> >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. >> > >> >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >> >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >> >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >> >I classified the subjects? responses (tip for >> >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >> >of their literal response (?g? if green, for >> >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >> >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >> >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >> >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. >> > >> >Hope that helps, >> >Mich >> > >> > >> >Michiel Spap? >> >Research Fellow >> >Perception & Action group >> >University of Nottingham >> >School of Psychology >> >www.cognitology.eu >> > >> >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >> >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >> >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> >Subject: eprime capabilities >> > >> >Hi, >> >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >> >University of Sydney working on my project at >> >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >> >honours project will be used for children with >> >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). >> > >> >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >> >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >> >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >> >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >> >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >> >was to have the computer judge and provide >> >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >> >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >> >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? >> > >> >Merry >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nusphd at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 02:45:02 2010 From: nusphd at gmail.com (Lidia Suarez) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:45:02 +0800 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah! I would appreciate you let us know what you used to objectively measure syllabic stress eventually! This is interesting. On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Lidia Suarez wrote: > Thanks Michiel for all the suggestions. Yes, it is very difficult > to identify syllable boundaries because of co-articulation. Merry, note that > lexical stress is defined by changes in pitch, duration, and intensity. All > three features are interrelated, choosing just duration may be not enough. > Therefore, you may need to support the results given by the software with > some kind of "human" rating. For example, you could have two judges and > calculate inter-rater agreement or have a sample of "naive/healthy" > participants to rate lexical stress of the words pronounced by children > with CAS. > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Peter Quain wrote: > >> >> My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to >> sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is >> this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing >> software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to >> accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when >> needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would >> do, no matter how you fiddle. >> >> >> >> At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: >> >>> Sorry for the confusion. >>> >>> I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the >>> duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice >>> versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant >>> feedback on the responses. >>> PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to >>> determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming >>> script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX >>> to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. >>> >>> Thanks for your help. >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of >>> David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] >>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM >>> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>> Subject: RE: eprime capabilities >>> >>> Merry, >>> >>> I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich >>> to your question. EP can readily present your >>> visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, >>> and might even collect the subjects' responses >>> (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into >>> .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... >>> whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >>> strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly >>> understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal >>> recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall >>> order! Do you know of any other current software >>> or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW >>> stress, but do so reliably enough to pass >>> scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, >>> based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? >>> >>> To be sure, in principle EP might well be >>> *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it >>> would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be >>> *practical*. >>> >>> But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. >>> >>> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >>> >>> >>> At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >>> >Hi, >>> >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >>> >?whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >>> >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >>> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >>> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >>> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)? >>> >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >>> >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >>> >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I?d >>> >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >>> >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >>> >then have the experimenter classify the words >>> >immediately after the participant says them (I >>> >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >>> >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >>> >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >>> >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >>> >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >>> >case you could do the same with much more ease >>> >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >>> >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >>> >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. >>> > >>> >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >>> >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >>> >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >>> >I classified the subjects? responses (tip for >>> >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >>> >of their literal response (?g? if green, for >>> >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >>> >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >>> >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >>> >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. >>> > >>> >Hope that helps, >>> >Mich >>> > >>> > >>> >Michiel Spap? >>> >Research Fellow >>> >Perception & Action group >>> >University of Nottingham >>> >School of Psychology >>> >www.cognitology.eu >>> > >>> >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>> >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >>> >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >>> >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>> >Subject: eprime capabilities >>> > >>> >Hi, >>> >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >>> >University of Sydney working on my project at >>> >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >>> >honours project will be used for children with >>> >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). >>> > >>> >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >>> >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >>> >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >>> >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >>> >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >>> >was to have the computer judge and provide >>> >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >>> >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >>> >calculated using a pairwise variability index >>> >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >>> >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >>> >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? >>> > >>> >Merry >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "E-Prime" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "E-Prime" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug.girard at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 14:06:35 2010 From: doug.girard at gmail.com (DGirard) Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 06:06:35 -0800 Subject: Fixes for RB-530 driver problems with e-Prime 2.0 Message-ID: Hi all, I kept getting this error message (or something like it), when trying to use the Cedrus RB-530 response pad with e-Prime 2.0 on Windows Vista: 'Unable to open the SRBOX: 0x00000103 The SRBox Device Driver may not be installed' Although I'm not sure if this is recommended practice, I was able to resolve this issue by: 1. Running the SRBoxDriverInstallation.exe file on the E-Prime 2.0 CD- ROM. It's under the /E-Prime folder. This installs a driver called "PST Serial Response Box Driver" to Windows. The driver installed should have the name: SRBoxDRv.sys 2. In Device Manager, Ports (COM & LPT) should have an entry of: "Cedrus RB-x30 Response Pad (COM#)". If not, you may want to try to update the Cedrus driver from their website. Visit their site for the rbx30_driver_uninstall.zip file (http://www.cedrus.com/support/ rb_series/tn1059_mprog.htm). There are *.inf driver files in one of the ZIP file's subfolders. After driver installation, make sure the baudrate is 19200. Also, make sure this device has a COM port of 1, 2, 3, or 4. Anything higher will not work with ePrime. You can adjust this under the Advanced settings in the driver properties. More about that here: http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1045_usbport_win.htm 3. In Device Manager, under Universal Serial Bus controllers, there should be an entry of: "USB Serial Converter". If not, update the driver using the ftdibus.inf file located within the rbx30_driver_uninstall.zip file mentioned above (downloaded from the Cedrus website). 4. Unplug the USB response pad. Start a reboot. While the computer is rebooting, make sure the device pins (DIP switches) are in the following position: 1=Up, 2=Down, 3=Down, 4=Down. See: http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1047_eprime.htm 5. AFTER Windows successfully boots and you login, THEN plug in the response box (otherwise Windows may falsely detect it as a mouse during startup). 6. Adjust the Experiment properties to ensure that the ePrime settings are identical to the Device Manager properties, e.g. baudrate = 19200, COM=1,2,3, or 4, etc. 7. Generate and run! Basically, I think I did not do Step #1 and this screwed everything up. For some reason the default installation for ePrime 2.0 does not install these driver files. Here are some other helpful resources I found during this ordeal to assist with troubleshooting: 1. There is also an SRBoxTester.exe application which can confirm that everything is in working order with the box. Google that. 2. If installation of the driver does not go as planned, you may want to follow these instructions closely. They are strange, but in the end, it may be the only way to get this working. http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1059_mprog.htm 3. Some of the older devices (pre-2010) may need a firmware upgrade. If nothing is working, you may want to try this. To do this, unplug the device and set all of the pins to the DOWN positions. This places the device in XID mode. Plug the device back in and download the Xidon software mentioned on this page and follow the directions to perform the firmware upgrade: http://www.cedrus.com/support/rb_series/tn1056_updating_firmware.htm Hope this helps (and saves you the 3 hours it took me)... - DGirard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au Mon Dec 13 01:48:10 2010 From: thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au (thha4757 at uni.sydney.edu.au) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 01:48:10 +0000 Subject: eprime capabilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We did take into account the difficulties of identifying syllable boundaries and have decided to use voiced plosives as a starter as they can be determined easiest in signal analysis. We are just concentrating on duration in therapy, but will be measuring for intensity and pitch and expecting these to generalise also. Doing these kind of analyses offline is not our concern, its the real-time, objective analyses that is the difficult. Will let you know what we end up doing! ________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of Lidia Suarez [nusphd at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 1:45 PM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: eprime capabilities Ah! I would appreciate you let us know what you used to objectively measure syllabic stress eventually! This is interesting. On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Lidia Suarez > wrote: Thanks Michiel for all the suggestions. Yes, it is very difficult to identify syllable boundaries because of co-articulation. Merry, note that lexical stress is defined by changes in pitch, duration, and intensity. All three features are interrelated, choosing just duration may be not enough. Therefore, you may need to support the results given by the software with some kind of "human" rating. For example, you could have two judges and calculate inter-rater agreement or have a sample of "naive/healthy" participants to rate lexical stress of the words pronounced by children with CAS. On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Peter Quain > wrote: My guess is that you'd need signal analysis software (and good code) to sort out syllable boundaries, and WS or SW emphasis, or syllable length (is this related to WS SW?). Neither e-prime or DMDX is a signal processing software. They are designed to time presention of stimuli accurately, and to accurately collect responses to the stimuli, and to provide feedback when needed. I think that they cannot do what I think you are wishing they would do, no matter how you fiddle. At 05:50 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote: Sorry for the confusion. I want e-prime to record vocal responses, and determine whether the duration of the first syllable is longer than the second syllable, and vice versa. So yes, i wanted e-prime to do real-time analysis and provide instant feedback on the responses. PVI is a calculation equation about the duration of syllables to determine stress, that I assume would have to be part of the programming script in order for it to be able to do. Currently I am fiddling with DMDX to see if it is able to do this kind of analysis. Thanks for your help. ________________________________________ From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [e-prime at googlegroups.com] on behalf of David McFarlane [mcfarla9 at msu.edu] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:52 AM To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: eprime capabilities Merry, I had pretty much the same reaction as did Mich to your question. EP can readily present your visual and auditory stimuli and present feedback, and might even collect the subjects' responses (EP2 can even record subjects' vocalizations into .wav files). But by "have the computer judge ... whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress" do I correctly understand that you wish EP to do real-time vocal recognition & analysis? That *is* a tall order! Do you know of any other current software or hardware that can not only recognize WS vs. SW stress, but do so reliably enough to pass scientific muster? Or is that what the PVI does, based merely on the raw sound-pressure waveforms? To be sure, in principle EP might well be *capable* of "judging" WS vs. SW stress, but it would pose a formidable programming challenge and so would not be *practical*. But perhaps I misunderstand and you have something simpler in mind. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/9/2010 07:27 AM Thursday, Michiel Spape wrote: >Hi, >What exactly do you wish E-Prime to calculate? >?whether they correctly used weak-strong (WS) or >strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress)? >would mean that the computer A) records vocal >responses (possible in E-Prime), B) that vocal >responses are classified as WS/SW, right? I?d >imagine if you would do the test semi-automatic >- let e-prime record responses and so on, and >then have the experimenter classify the words >immediately after the participant says them (I >mean, after every trial, for instance), this >would be possible. If you wish to know whether >E-Prime can do any sort of higher-order >analysis, the answer is no (unless you are >REALLY REALLY good with programming, in which >case you could do the same with much more ease >in .NET, c#, Matlab, etc). It cannot do signal >analysis at all (therefore no acoustic analysis >either), nor is it (I imagine) intended to do such things. > >BUT, the semi-automatic way is probably much >easier for anyone involved. I mean, the few >times I did a Stroop task with vocal responses, >I classified the subjects? responses (tip for >those thinking of it: classify the first letter >of their literal response (?g? if green, for >instance), not whether it is correct, or _you_ >will have a Stroop effect as well as the >subjects!) as well. You will have to endure >[number of subjects * boredom involved in task = ] total boredom though. > >Hope that helps, >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology >www.cognitology.eu > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Merry Ha >Sent: 09 December 2010 11:32 >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >Subject: eprime capabilities > >Hi, >I'm a speech pathology honours student from the >University of Sydney working on my project at >the moment using e-prime for the first time. My >honours project will be used for children with >Childhood Apraxia of Speech (CAS). > >We will be presenting novel word stimuli on the >screen visually and auditorily, and then have >the child to imitate the computer, or read off >the screen. Children with CAS tend to say words >with equal stress, and the aim of the experiment >was to have the computer judge and provide >feedback whether they correctly used weak-strong >(WS) or strong-weak (SW) stress (this could be >calculated using a pairwise variability index >(PVI) - a positive PVI would indicate SW, and a >negative PVI would indicate weak-strong stress). >Do you know if this programming is possible for e-prime? > >Merry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jennaology at yahoo.com Mon Dec 13 13:25:10 2010 From: jennaology at yahoo.com (RB209) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 05:25:10 -0800 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing Message-ID: Hi, I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time a participant makes a response. I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for 2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). The first issue is fine. I use ... slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with a possible response. sleep (10) writeport, &H37, 0 However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to clear everything but still having problems). I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way that works. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tybeet at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 15:57:14 2010 From: tybeet at gmail.com (Tyler) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 07:57:14 -0800 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop Message-ID: I have two questions that I hope someone can help me figure out the answers to. I'm trying to present a Likert scale on the screen using a Slide and capture responses using E-Basic. I have working code for this, based on an example I found on the PST forums. The first issue I am having is what to do when the user clicks an object that doesn't register as a scale response. Initially, the code I was using would simply continue and register the rating as "nothing". However, as I require a response, I simply used an If... condition that would jump back to a Label (and start the trial over) unless it was a registered response. This is the code I have: ------------- BEGIN CODE 'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the 'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". Dim theState As SlideState Set theState = F1DStimulus.States("Default") Dim theSlideText As SlideText Dim strHit As String Dim intRating As Integer Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData 'Get the mouse response. Set theMouseResponseData = CMouseResponseData(F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) 'Was there a response? If F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then 'Determine string name of SlideText object at 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, theMouseResponseData.CursorY) 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit <> "Image" And strHit <> "Instr" Then 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected 'Change appearance of selected sub-object to provide feedback to the subject. Set theSlideText = CSlideText(F1DStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") 'Redraw the Slide to present changes F1DStimulus.Draw 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by a single digit. The Mid function is 'instructed to return the 5th character (i.e. the digit) of strHit for logging purposes. intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) 'Log rating in the data file under the attribute "Rating" c.SetAttrib "F1DRating", intRating Sleep 1000 theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") 'The subject did not click a valid sub-object. Else 'Restart the trial GoTo F1DTLabel End If 'The subject did not respond. Else 'Restart the trial GoTo F1DTLabel End If Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE ------------- END CODE The above code works flawlessly. The problem I am having now is that I would like to use a Do... Loop Until in place of the GoTo Label command. With the following code in place, clicking on a scale position work, but clicking on an invalid object does not. What happens is that the program fails to capture any mouse clicks beyond the first one. This is the code I am using: ------------- BEGIN CODE 'This file has been modified by Tyler Burleigh - December 11, 2010 'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the 'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". Dim theState As SlideState Set theState = F1AStimulus.States("Default") Dim theSlideText As SlideText Dim strHit As String Dim intRating As Integer Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData Do 'Get the mouse response. Set theMouseResponseData = CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) 'Was there a response? If F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then 'Determine string name of SlideText object at 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, theMouseResponseData.CursorY) 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit <> "Image" And strHit <> "Instr" Then 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected 'Change appearance of selected sub-object to provide feedback to the subject. Set theSlideText = CSlideText(F1AStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") 'Redraw the Slide to present changes F1AStimulus.Draw 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by a single digit. The Mid function is 'instructed to return the 5th character (i.e. the digit) of strHit for logging purposes. intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) 'Log rating in the data file under the attribute "Rating" c.SetAttrib "F1ARating", intRating Sleep 1000 theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") End If End If Loop Until (intRating > 0) Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE ------------- END CODE Can someone help me identify what may be causing the program to not register new mouse clicks? I think it's something simple such as a value not being re-set somewhere, however I tried placing Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing and intRating = 0 inside the loop without any luck. Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? Thanks, Tyler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 19:03:43 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:03:43 -0500 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did you see the thread at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd ? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 12/13/2010 08:25 AM Monday, you wrote: >I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time >a participant makes a response. > >I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide >object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like >triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact >point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for >2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is >followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). > >The first issue is fine. I use ... > >slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true >slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 >slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with >a possible response. >sleep (10) >writeport, &H37, 0 > >However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have >been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the >participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. >Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being >sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if >I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide >duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the >slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time >although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it >causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs >about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no >matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR >response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to >clear everything but still having problems). > >I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been >trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous >discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments >but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to >achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way >that works. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 21:16:30 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:16:30 -0500 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tyler, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... First some explanation, then some pointers toward solutions... If I understand correctly the example you found at PST, then your F1DTLabel lies on the Procedure somewhere before your F1DStimulus. When the Goto goes back to that label, it re-runs your F1DStimulus, which then also re-runs its input mask and captures one more mouse click, which your inline code then processes. But the Do...Loop code never re-runs the input mask, so you never get another mouse click. You might get around this by the simple expedient of replacing your F1DTLabel with a bit of inline code that simply says Do and then following up with the approprate Loop Until statement in the code that follows the stimulus, but I expect you had something more elegant in mind like handling everything in one inline code object. So you would need to have some way for your code to get additional mouse clicks. In addition, if you run this as an ordinary self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus Duration of (infinite) and End Action of (terminate)), then your program does not get to the inline code until after the first mouse click, so depending on how you want to play this you might have to also find some way to have EP run your code as soon as the stimulus is presented. So much for explanation, on to solutions. I will address the second issue first, then the first issue. You have two options for running inline code right after presentation of a stimulus: either set the stimulus Duration to 0, or set PreRelease >= Duration. Most users will naturally adopt the first option, and that indeed works best for self-paced presentations. But if you want the stimulus to time out or the next stimulus to come at a controlled time later, then your code would have to also handle the timing. Most users would handle that with some use of Clock.Read, but by judicious use of PreRelease you can have your code run and still let EP automatically handle the stimulus timing for you. (Some day I will write up a proper explanation of the interactions between Duration, PreRelease, and NextTargetOnsetTime and post that to the list.) In your case, if your task involves only a self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus remains until a response, then moves on), then just set stimulus Duration to 0. In any case, to collect responses while your code runs, you would also have to use "Extended Input" (see Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime), e.g., set Time Limit to (infinite). OK, now to the code. It all comes down to the line Set theMouseResponseData = _ CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) As it stands now, that line gets the first, one, and only response from the input mask. You want to allow for more mouse clicks. I can think of three approaches here. First, you could use the Advanced properties to increase the MaxCount to some suitably high value. Then you might change that line to something like Set theMouseResponseData = _ CMouseResponseData( F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(_ F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count) ) which will now get the latest mouse click each time. Or you could do without the input mask and address the Mouse device History directly, as in Set theMouseResponseData = _ CMouseResponseData( Mouse.History(Mouse.History.Count) ) (if you do this, make sure first that the Mouse.History contains at least one mouse click, otherwise you will get a run-time error). Or you could go hard-core and handle the mouse directly (only the mouse (and perhaps the joystick) allows this level of access), e.g., Mouse.GetCursorPos p.x, p.y with other code changes as appropriate (plus code to debounce the mouse, get response time, etc.). I like the second and third approaches since those allow me to write transportable code that does not need to know anything about the stimulus object (and then I do not use any input mask on the stimulus object). I actually used the third approach to write an extensive library of routines to do exactly what you are trying to do, but that was before I understood the device History mechanism, now I might rewrite it to use that approach. (If I ever get that cleaned up enough then I might submit it to STEP to see if they will post it for everyone.) Finally, your code might in fact work by just making the substitutions I suggest, but as it stands that would repeatedly re-test each mouse click until the next one comes. So if you want to look like a real programmer then you will add code to test to see when a new click arrives, and while you are at it clean up some of the other sloppiness that was in the original PST example. I leave that as an exercise for you. I will address your second question in a separate post. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 12/13/2010 10:57 AM Monday, you wrote: >I have two questions that I hope someone can help me figure out the >answers to. > >I'm trying to present a Likert scale on the screen using a Slide and >capture responses using E-Basic. I have working code for this, based >on an example I found on the PST forums. The first issue I am having >is what to do when the user clicks an object that doesn't register as >a scale response. Initially, the code I was using would simply >continue and register the rating as "nothing". However, as I require a >response, I simply used an If... condition that would jump back to a >Label (and start the trial over) unless it was a registered response. >This is the code I have: > >------------- BEGIN CODE > >'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >Dim theState As SlideState >Set theState = F1DStimulus.States("Default") > >Dim theSlideText As SlideText > >Dim strHit As String >Dim intRating As Integer >Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData > > > 'Get the mouse response. > Set theMouseResponseData = >CMouseResponseData(F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > > 'Was there a response? > If F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then > > 'Determine string name of SlideText object at > 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit > strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >theMouseResponseData.CursorY) > > 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? > If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit > <> "Image" And >strHit <> "Instr" Then > > 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected > 'Change appearance of selected sub-object > to provide feedback to >the subject. > Set theSlideText = >CSlideText(F1DStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") > > 'Redraw the Slide to present changes > F1DStimulus.Draw > > 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by > a single digit. The Mid >function is > 'instructed to return the 5th character > (i.e. the digit) of strHit >for logging purposes. > intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) > > 'Log rating in the data file under the > attribute "Rating" > c.SetAttrib "F1DRating", intRating > > Sleep 1000 > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") > > 'The subject did not click a valid sub-object. > Else > 'Restart the trial > GoTo F1DTLabel > End If > > 'The subject did not respond. > Else > 'Restart the trial > GoTo F1DTLabel > End If > >Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE > >------------- END CODE > >The above code works flawlessly. > >The problem I am having now is that I would like to use a Do... Loop >Until in place of the GoTo Label command. With the following code in >place, clicking on a scale position work, but clicking on an invalid >object does not. What happens is that the program fails to capture any >mouse clicks beyond the first one. This is the code I am using: > >------------- BEGIN CODE > >'This file has been modified by Tyler Burleigh - December 11, 2010 > >'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >Dim theState As SlideState >Set theState = F1AStimulus.States("Default") > >Dim theSlideText As SlideText > >Dim strHit As String >Dim intRating As Integer >Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData > >Do > 'Get the mouse response. > Set theMouseResponseData = >CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > > 'Was there a response? > If F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then > > 'Determine string name of SlideText object at > 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit > strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >theMouseResponseData.CursorY) > > 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? > If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And strHit > <> "Image" And >strHit <> "Instr" Then > > 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected > 'Change appearance of selected sub-object > to provide feedback to >the subject. > Set theSlideText = >CSlideText(F1AStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") > > 'Redraw the Slide to present changes > F1AStimulus.Draw > > 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed by > a single digit. The Mid >function is > 'instructed to return the 5th character > (i.e. the digit) of strHit >for logging purposes. > intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) > > 'Log rating in the data file under the > attribute "Rating" > c.SetAttrib "F1ARating", intRating > > Sleep 1000 > theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") > > End If > End If > >Loop Until (intRating > 0) > >Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE > >------------- END CODE > >Can someone help me identify what may be causing the program to not >register new mouse clicks? I think it's something simple such as a >value not being re-set somewhere, however I tried placing Set >theMouseResponseData = Nothing and intRating = 0 inside the loop >without any luck. > >Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the >name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I >need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, >for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me >countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? > >Thanks, >Tyler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 21:28:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:28:29 -0500 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: <4d068d34.13bbe70a.737d.7429SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hmm, after drafting and posting that lengthy reply, I checked my E-Prime FAQ and found that I had posted another answer to this at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic4009-23-1.aspx , so you might also look there (contains more detailed code, but lacks the detailed explanation). As long as I am at it, I should have declared my variable in my third mouse approach fragment, so here you go: Dim p as Point Mouse.GetCursorPos p.x, p.y -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Tyler, > >Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff >takes any and all questions at >http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they >strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty >much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of >it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend >the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > >That said, here is my take... > >First some explanation, then some pointers toward solutions... > >If I understand correctly the example you found at PST, then your >F1DTLabel lies on the Procedure somewhere before your >F1DStimulus. When the Goto goes back to that label, it re-runs your >F1DStimulus, which then also re-runs its input mask and captures one >more mouse click, which your inline code then processes. But the >Do...Loop code never re-runs the input mask, so you never get >another mouse click. You might get around this by the simple >expedient of replacing your F1DTLabel with a bit of inline code that >simply says > >Do > >and then following up with the approprate Loop Until statement in >the code that follows the stimulus, but I expect you had something >more elegant in mind like handling everything in one inline code object. > >So you would need to have some way for your code to get additional >mouse clicks. In addition, if you run this as an ordinary >self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus Duration of (infinite) and >End Action of (terminate)), then your program does not get to the >inline code until after the first mouse click, so depending on how >you want to play this you might have to also find some way to have >EP run your code as soon as the stimulus is presented. > >So much for explanation, on to solutions. I will address the second >issue first, then the first issue. > >You have two options for running inline code right after >presentation of a stimulus: either set the stimulus Duration to 0, >or set PreRelease >= Duration. Most users will naturally adopt the >first option, and that indeed works best for self-paced >presentations. But if you want the stimulus to time out or the next >stimulus to come at a controlled time later, then your code would >have to also handle the timing. Most users would handle that with >some use of Clock.Read, but by judicious use of PreRelease you can >have your code run and still let EP automatically handle the >stimulus timing for you. (Some day I will write up a proper >explanation of the interactions between Duration, PreRelease, and >NextTargetOnsetTime and post that to the list.) In your case, if >your task involves only a self-paced presentation (i.e., stimulus >remains until a response, then moves on), then just set stimulus >Duration to 0. In any case, to collect responses while your code >runs, you would also have to use "Extended Input" (see Appendix C of >the User's Guide that came with E-Prime), e.g., set Time Limit to (infinite). > >OK, now to the code. It all comes down to the line > >Set theMouseResponseData = _ > CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > >As it stands now, that line gets the first, one, and only response >from the input mask. You want to allow for more mouse clicks. I >can think of three approaches here. First, you could use the >Advanced properties to increase the MaxCount to some suitably high >value. Then you might change that line to something like > >Set theMouseResponseData = _ > CMouseResponseData( F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(_ > F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count) ) > >which will now get the latest mouse click each time. Or you could >do without the input mask and address the Mouse device History directly, as in > >Set theMouseResponseData = _ > CMouseResponseData( Mouse.History(Mouse.History.Count) ) > >(if you do this, make sure first that the Mouse.History contains at >least one mouse click, otherwise you will get a run-time error). Or >you could go hard-core and handle the mouse directly (only the mouse >(and perhaps the joystick) allows this level of access), e.g., > >Mouse.GetCursorPos p.x, p.y > >with other code changes as appropriate (plus code to debounce the >mouse, get response time, etc.). > >I like the second and third approaches since those allow me to write >transportable code that does not need to know anything about the >stimulus object (and then I do not use any input mask on the >stimulus object). I actually used the third approach to write an >extensive library of routines to do exactly what you are trying to >do, but that was before I understood the device History mechanism, >now I might rewrite it to use that approach. (If I ever get that >cleaned up enough then I might submit it to STEP to see if they will >post it for everyone.) > >Finally, your code might in fact work by just making the >substitutions I suggest, but as it stands that would repeatedly >re-test each mouse click until the next one comes. So if you want >to look like a real programmer then you will add code to test to see >when a new click arrives, and while you are at it clean up some of >the other sloppiness that was in the original PST example. I leave >that as an exercise for you. > > >I will address your second question in a separate post. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over >public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, >Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > >At 12/13/2010 10:57 AM Monday, you wrote: >>I have two questions that I hope someone can help me figure out the >>answers to. >> >>I'm trying to present a Likert scale on the screen using a Slide and >>capture responses using E-Basic. I have working code for this, based >>on an example I found on the PST forums. The first issue I am having >>is what to do when the user clicks an object that doesn't register as >>a scale response. Initially, the code I was using would simply >>continue and register the rating as "nothing". However, as I require a >>response, I simply used an If... condition that would jump back to a >>Label (and start the trial over) unless it was a registered response. >>This is the code I have: >> >>------------- BEGIN CODE >> >>'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >>'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >>Dim theState As SlideState >>Set theState = F1DStimulus.States("Default") >> >>Dim theSlideText As SlideText >> >>Dim strHit As String >>Dim intRating As Integer >>Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData >> >> >> 'Get the mouse response. >> Set theMouseResponseData = >>CMouseResponseData(F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) >> >> 'Was there a response? >> If F1DStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then >> >> 'Determine string name of SlideText object at >> 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit >> strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >>theMouseResponseData.CursorY) >> >> 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? >> If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And >> strHit <> "Image" And >>strHit <> "Instr" Then >> >> 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected >> 'Change appearance of selected sub-object >> to provide feedback to >>the subject. >> Set theSlideText = >>CSlideText(F1DStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") >> >> 'Redraw the Slide to present changes >> F1DStimulus.Draw >> >> 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed >> by a single digit. The Mid >>function is >> 'instructed to return the 5th character >> (i.e. the digit) of strHit >>for logging purposes. >> intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) >> >> 'Log rating in the data file under the >> attribute "Rating" >> c.SetAttrib "F1DRating", intRating >> >> Sleep 1000 >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") >> >> 'The subject did not click a valid sub-object. >> Else >> 'Restart the trial >> GoTo F1DTLabel >> End If >> >> 'The subject did not respond. >> Else >> 'Restart the trial >> GoTo F1DTLabel >> End If >> >>Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >>Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE >> >>------------- END CODE >> >>The above code works flawlessly. >> >>The problem I am having now is that I would like to use a Do... Loop >>Until in place of the GoTo Label command. With the following code in >>place, clicking on a scale position work, but clicking on an invalid >>object does not. What happens is that the program fails to capture any >>mouse clicks beyond the first one. This is the code I am using: >> >>------------- BEGIN CODE >> >>'This file has been modified by Tyler Burleigh - December 11, 2010 >> >>'Designate "theState" as the Default Slide State, which is the >>'current ActiveState on the Slide object "Stimulus". >>Dim theState As SlideState >>Set theState = F1AStimulus.States("Default") >> >>Dim theSlideText As SlideText >> >>Dim strHit As String >>Dim intRating As Integer >>Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData >> >>Do >> 'Get the mouse response. >> Set theMouseResponseData = >>CMouseResponseData(F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1)) >> >> 'Was there a response? >> If F1AStimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then >> >> 'Determine string name of SlideText object at >> 'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit >> strHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, >>theMouseResponseData.CursorY) >> >> 'Did the subject click one of the SlideText sub-objects? >> If strHit <> "" And strHit <> "Question" And >> strHit <> "Image" And >>strHit <> "Instr" Then >> >> 'Gain access to the SlideText sub-object selected >> 'Change appearance of selected sub-object >> to provide feedback to >>the subject. >> Set theSlideText = >>CSlideText(F1AStimulus.States.Item("Default").Objects(strHit)) >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("red") >> >> 'Redraw the Slide to present changes >> F1AStimulus.Draw >> >> 'Each SlideText is named "Text" followed >> by a single digit. The Mid >>function is >> 'instructed to return the 5th character >> (i.e. the digit) of strHit >>for logging purposes. >> intRating = CInt(Mid(strHit, 5, 1)) >> >> 'Log rating in the data file under the >> attribute "Rating" >> c.SetAttrib "F1ARating", intRating >> >> Sleep 1000 >> theSlideText.BackColor = CColor("gray") >> >> End If >> End If >> >>Loop Until (intRating > 0) >> >>Set theMouseResponseData = Nothing >>Mouse.ShowCursor FALSE >> >>------------- END CODE >> >>Can someone help me identify what may be causing the program to not >>register new mouse clicks? I think it's something simple such as a >>value not being re-set somewhere, however I tried placing Set >>theMouseResponseData = Nothing and intRating = 0 inside the loop >>without any luck. >> >>Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the >>name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I >>need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, >>for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me >>countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? >> >>Thanks, >>Tyler > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Dec 13 21:19:59 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:19:59 -0500 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tyler, >Second, is it possible for the E-Basic code to "know" (or read-in) the >name of the Procedure it is running? In the code I am working with I >need to make 100+ procedures and adapt the code for each (changing, >for example, F1AStimulus to F1DStimulus), but it would save me >countless hours if I could read in this value. Is this possible? Indeed, c.GetAttrib("Procedure") will return a string with the name of the current running Procedure (unless it is SessionProc, in which case you get a run-time error). In addition, you can use Rte.GetObject to retrieve any E-Object by name. Please see the appropriate topics in the online E-Basic Help. But this seems a very poor way to get your work done. I don't know enough about your particular experimental task to see why you need 100+ Procedures, nor do I want to know that much. But I have vast experience with EP and other platforms, and I cannot think of a time when some user's large & complex program did not result simply from their poor structure ( which in turn results from a perverse refusal of users to get even the most rudimentary formal training in computer programming ). Time and again users have come to me with a program where they used a different Procedure for any time they wanted to use a different stimulus content, instead of simply changing the stimulus content by using an attribute (from a List or from code), as is shown in Tutorial 1 of the Getting Started Guide. This recurring mistake completely violates the very purpose of a tool like E-Prime, it would be like turning a power drill by hand. On several occasions I have taken some program from a user and reduced it down to a single Procedure that covered all the situtations, controlling contest with attributes, which made the program much more manageable and understandable. So I suspect that your 100+ Procedures problem has more to do with not completely working out the task structure, and rather than adding more complexity in order to get around this, I would implore you to fix the underlying structure. That will pay much bigger dividends. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." -- Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'" (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tybeet at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 00:33:29 2010 From: tybeet at gmail.com (Tyler) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:33:29 -0800 Subject: Help with E-Basic Mouse-Capture Loop In-Reply-To: <4d069003.44842a0a.3c2e.07aaSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: As I had Inline code beginning my procedure anyway, I simply added a Do statement to the beginning, and left the Loop Until statement where it was, and that fixed that problem. As you suggested, I've also removed the mouse mask instead hard-coding using the GetCursorPos function. Simultaneously, I am migrating the code I am using now which uses a Slide object to Canvas objects instead, and that way I can use conditional statements and drastically economize the number of procedures I will need. Thank you for your help, I've learned quite a bit from your response. Cheers! Tyler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jennaology at yahoo.com Tue Dec 14 08:33:05 2010 From: jennaology at yahoo.com (RB209) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 00:33:05 -0800 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing In-Reply-To: <4d066e14.13bbe70a.6b04.7521SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, I had been working from that post but it doesn't work - at least not when I try it. In order to initiate the inline immediately you need to set a large prerelease time (as suggested in the thread) but this interferes with data logging in Eprime. So I can get accurate response triggers using this method but for at least 30% (but sometimes up to 70%) of trials no data is logged by Eprime. : ( On Dec 13, 7:03?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Did you see the thread athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307...? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 12/13/2010 08:25 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time > >a participant makes a response. > > >I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide > >object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like > >triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact > >point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for > >2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is > >followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). > > >The first issue is fine. I use ... > > >slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true > >slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 > >slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with > >a possible response. > >sleep (10) > >writeport, &H37, 0 > > >However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have > >been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the > >participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. > >Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being > >sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if > >I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide > >duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the > >slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time > >although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it > >causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs > >about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no > >matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR > >response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to > >clear everything but still having problems). > > >I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been > >trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous > >discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments > >but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to > >achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way > >that works.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Dec 14 20:51:05 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:51:05 -0500 Subject: Response triggers with accurate timing In-Reply-To: <31314263-a327-456a-8514-caa8e321560b@s9g2000vby.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Then something else is going on. As explained in Chapter 3 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime, EP will fail to log data whenever your program reaches the end of the Procedure before it gets a response, and in some specific situations a PreRelease will exacerbate that. (If you look at the generated code you will see why -- EP puts the requested c.SetAttrib commands and a c.Log just before the End Sub of a Procedure, so once your program runs past that it is too late.) But the code under discussion specifically holds up the code until it gets a response, so, PreRelease notwithstanding, there is no way that it could fail to log the response unless you are doing something wacky with your attribute logging. As also suggested in that example you could set Duration to 0, but you say you have also tried that and it does not work. All I can tell you is that the posted code has worked flawlessly for us, exactly as used & described in that thread. So at this point you need to submit a request to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and have them help you sort it out (and then please post back here with their response). BTW, I trust that the line writeport, &H37, 0 in your post is a typo, because if that really is in your code then you would likely get no 0 signal at all out to your device, because the proper line would be writeport, &H378, 0 -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I had been working from that post but it doesn't work - at least not >when I try it. In order to initiate the inline immediately you need to >set a large prerelease time (as suggested in the thread) but this >interferes with data logging in Eprime. So I can get accurate response >triggers using this method but for at least 30% (but sometimes up to >70%) of trials no data is logged by Eprime. : ( > > >On Dec 13, 7:03 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Did you see the thread > athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307...? > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 12/13/2010 08:25 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >I have been struggling to send triggers to Actiview at the exact time > > >a participant makes a response. > > > > >I'm running a memory experiment where images are presented in a slide > > >object and participants respond by pressing 1,2,3 or 4. I would like > > >triggers to be sent a.) at the onset of the slide and b.) at the exact > > >point a participant makes a response. I want the slide to run for > > >2500ms but responses to be collected for 3700ms in total. (Slide1 is > > >followed by a blank screen for 1200ms). > > > > >The first issue is fine. I use ... > > > > >slide1.onsetsignalenabled = true > > >slide1.onsetsignalport = &H378 > > >slide1.onsetsignaldata = &H05 'send 5 so the value does not clash with > > >a possible response. > > >sleep (10) > > >writeport, &H37, 0 > > > > >However, I can't get the response trigger to send accurately. I have > > >been trying to use slide1.inputmasks.Ispending to collect the > > >participant's response and writeport it while the slide is presented. > > >Unfortunaltely, this sends the trigger late (looks like it is being > > >sent after slide1 has finished running). This remains the case even if > > >I set the slide1 duration to 0 . I have also tried setting the slide > > >duration in properties to 2500 and using a large prerelease on the > > >slide object. This seems to send the response triggers on time > > >although I'm only judging this by eye at the moment. However, it > > >causes problems with data logging in eprime. I.e Eprime only logs > > >about 30% of the responses unless I reduce the prerelease. Also, no > > >matter what I try I seem to either get stimulus onset triggers OR > > >response triggers but not both. (I am sending 0s after each trigger to > > >clear everything but still having problems). > > > > >I would appreciate any help with this issue - I have honestly been > > >trying for days to sort this by myself. I have found previous > > >discussions useful and have looked at some of the sample experiments > > >but I still haven't gotten close to solving this problem. I am able to > > >achieve most of the subtasks but cannot put them together in a way > > >that works.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ingvalson at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 19:51:50 2010 From: ingvalson at gmail.com (Erin) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:51:50 -0800 Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm Message-ID: Hi All- I'm developing an adaptive training experiment that will take place over several days. Within a day, the difficulty of a given block will depend on the Ss performance on the previous block. The next day's session will require the experimenter to enter what difficulty level to start at, mostly because I can't think how to get E-Prime to store this information between sessions. I think the best way to do this is to have difficulty as an attribute called Condition. The experimenter enters this at the beginning, then c.GetAttrib("Condition") sets the difficulty level. After n trials, an in-line script checks the accuracy and uses c.SetAttrib("Condition") for the next block. I think it makes the most sense to have each difficulty level as its own procedure and list all these procedures in List1. After n blocks, the experiment would terminate. The problem I'm having is that I can't figure out how to call procedures from List1 based on a particular Condition. For example, if the experimenter enters Condition 1, I want to call and run Procedure 1. After say 25 trials, I want to set Condition to 2 then run Procedure 2. Does anyone know how to do this? Or is there a better way to code this experiment? Thanks. -Erin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Dec 16 09:56:02 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 09:56:02 +0000 Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm In-Reply-To: <8b9c37a5-22df-43f9-a715-60dc9c9af29a@o23g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hiya, Some suggestions: - You might want to add 'CurrentDay' as a startup parameter (edit>experiment) so that E-Prime asks specifically at the beginning of the experiment which day it is (I always add a few extra variables there). Then, if you call it indeed CurrentDay, c.GetAttrib("CurrentDay") will read whatever is entered. You could also write down performance level on a piece of paper and add that as a startup variable. - By the way, you can have one list, each with one procedure, and use 'order by': session. Then, at session two, the second level is automatically selected, and I think that answers your question directly (as for different days, but not for specific difficulty). - Next, running of procedures can be done, I think, but is neither easy nor recommended. If you must, you could save performance level, save it to some global variable (e.g. performance = performance + mystimulus.acc), and do something like the following in between two lists (the next one being List2 here, it has two levels and two procedures, one for low performance, lvl1, one for high performance lvl2): If performance >= 6 then 'if at least 6 answers were correct List2.SetWeight 1, 0 'sets level 1 to 0 so that low performance is skipped Else List2.SetWeight 2, 0 'sets level 2 to 0 so that high performance is skipped End If List2.Reset 'this is necessary. Beautiful, no? - Yet, if you can do the above, you must be able to think up some way of not using different procedures - you will only make it difficult for yourself. I cannot easily conceive of a reason why different procedures would give you any benefit, unless the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. In a stop-signal task, for instance (which often has an adaptive aspect), we tend to do count the number of wrong answers and adjust the stop-signal delay accordingly. It has only one procedure. Often, I have a training which uses the exact same procedure as the normal trial, with a bit of code for extra feedback and so on. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erin Sent: 15 December 2010 19:52 To: E-Prime Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm Hi All- I'm developing an adaptive training experiment that will take place over several days. Within a day, the difficulty of a given block will depend on the Ss performance on the previous block. The next day's session will require the experimenter to enter what difficulty level to start at, mostly because I can't think how to get E-Prime to store this information between sessions. I think the best way to do this is to have difficulty as an attribute called Condition. The experimenter enters this at the beginning, then c.GetAttrib("Condition") sets the difficulty level. After n trials, an in-line script checks the accuracy and uses c.SetAttrib("Condition") for the next block. I think it makes the most sense to have each difficulty level as its own procedure and list all these procedures in List1. After n blocks, the experiment would terminate. The problem I'm having is that I can't figure out how to call procedures from List1 based on a particular Condition. For example, if the experimenter enters Condition 1, I want to call and run Procedure 1. After say 25 trials, I want to set Condition to 2 then run Procedure 2. Does anyone know how to do this? Or is there a better way to code this experiment? Thanks. -Erin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 10:18:00 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 02:18:00 -0800 Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92A20B5948B@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: In addition, and this is something that I probably wouldn't bother to implement unless you really want it, you could have e-prime write the achieved level of difficulty into a .txt file (a separate file for each subject) at the end of one session. At the next session this .txt file could be read again by the program and the stored difficulty level could be used again. best, liw On Dec 16, 10:56?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hiya, > Some suggestions: > - You might want to add 'CurrentDay' as a startup parameter (edit>experiment) so that E-Prime asks specifically at the beginning of the experiment which day it is (I always add a few extra variables there). Then, if you call it indeed CurrentDay, c.GetAttrib("CurrentDay") will read whatever is entered. You could also write down performance level on a piece of paper and add that as a startup variable. > - By the way, you can have one list, each with one procedure, and use 'order by': session. Then, at session two, the second level is automatically selected, and I think that answers your question directly (as for different days, but not for specific difficulty). > - Next, running of procedures can be done, I think, but is neither easy nor recommended. If you must, you could save performance level, save it to some global variable (e.g. performance = performance + mystimulus.acc), and do something like the following in between two lists (the next one being List2 here, it has two levels and two procedures, one for low performance, lvl1, one for high performance lvl2): > If performance >= 6 then 'if at least 6 answers were correct > ? ? ? ? List2.SetWeight 1, 0 'sets level 1 to 0 so that low performance is skipped > Else > ? ? ? ? List2.SetWeight 2, 0 'sets level 2 to 0 so that high performance is skipped > End If > List2.Reset 'this is necessary. > > Beautiful, no? > - Yet, if you can do the above, you must be able to think up some way of not using different procedures - you will only make it difficult for yourself. I cannot easily conceive of a reason why different procedures would give you any benefit, unless the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another. In a stop-signal task, for instance (which often has an adaptive aspect), we tend to do count the number of wrong answers and adjust the stop-signal delay accordingly. It has only one procedure. Often, I have a training which uses the exact same procedure as the normal trial, with a bit of code for extra feedback and so on. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erin > Sent: 15 December 2010 19:52 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Please help developing adaptive paradigm > > Hi All- > > I'm developing an adaptive training experiment that will take place > over several days. Within a day, the difficulty of a given block will > depend on the Ss performance on the previous block. The next day's > session will require the experimenter to enter what difficulty level > to start at, mostly because I can't think how to get E-Prime to store > this information between sessions. > > I think the best way to do this is to have difficulty as an attribute > called Condition. The experimenter enters this at the beginning, then > c.GetAttrib("Condition") sets the difficulty level. After n trials, an > in-line script checks the accuracy and uses c.SetAttrib("Condition") > for the next block. > > I think it makes the most sense to have each difficulty level as its > own procedure and list all these procedures in List1. After n blocks, > the experiment would terminate. The problem I'm having is that I can't > figure out how to call procedures from List1 based on a particular > Condition. For example, if the experimenter enters Condition 1, I want > to call and run Procedure 1. After say 25 trials, I want to set > Condition to 2 then run Procedure 2. > > Does anyone know how to do this? Or is there a better way to code this > experiment? > > Thanks. > > -Erin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.