From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 1 13:13:19 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:13:19 -0000 Subject: resolution problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Though I am not entirely certain, this seems very unlikely, and even if it would be possible, the answer would take much longer than just changing your entire experiment back in lower resolution. You might be able to use a lot of canvas script, for instance, writing everything to a buffer that is larger than your real screen, and when the moment arrives to write it back to screen, just take the central part. Obviously, this would crop your pictures (from 1200 x 800, say, the central 1024 x 762 part), and apart from that, it would take *a lot* of script. The problem is this: if you can't get Windows to operate in a certain screen mode, there seems little reason to think E-Prime can - as much as E-Prime is possible to refresh at 120 Hz when the monitor only goes to 100 Hz. Instead, go to device properties, display device, and use the highest resolution available for your laptop - perhaps 1024 x 762 (like my laptop, but granted, it's a bit old)? I expect E-Prime 2 isn't able either to set the resolution to wide screen resolutions like your lab computers (1.2 only shows width options like 640, 800, 1024), or am I mistaken there? Anyway, short answer: sorry but no. Just use display device properties that both testing and programming devices support. Enlarge pictures that are too small. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Travis Nichols, Villanova University Sent: 31 January 2010 04:03 To: E-Prime Subject: resolution problems Hello all, So I programmed my project on one of the university lab computers and will test subjects from a laptop. The problem is that the computers have different screen sizes and resolutions. The program was working great on the programming computer but does not transfer well to the laptop which has a much higher resolution (so the pictures displayed in slide objects are too small). I have gone into the experiment-->device-->display settings, but the offered resolutions don't match those available on the testing laptop (I'm trying to get 1280 x 800). When I try and select those closest to the laptop resolution it crashes the running experiment saying it can't set that resolution. Is there any way to manually (like in-code or something) set the screen resolution to that of my testing laptop? Thanks, Travis Villanova University -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 1 13:18:10 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:18:10 -0000 Subject: Help!!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, No problem! I'm afraid no 'dot-probe' paradigm is covered (mainly because neither Rinus nor I ever used it), but the deal about learning programming in any environment is *practice practice practice*. That is also pretty much the answer to your later question. Let us know exactly where you get stuck, programming-wise (rather than paradigm-wise). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of scarpais Sent: 29 January 2010 17:26 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Help!!!!! Hi Mich, Sorry - I have just managed to locate the file via the web address and it is working fine. It looks fantastic - thanks so much again Anna On Jan 29, 11:41 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > That's OK, there's a particularly fancy Step-By-Step 'how to learn E-Prime if you're about as good at programming as the average psychotherapist you still know from your undergrads':http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf > Our students seemed to like it... it contains a number of experimental paradigms, the idea being that if you work through the book, you ought to be able to read an experimental psychological paper and replicate the experiment. > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of scarpais > Sent: 29 January 2010 09:31 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Help!!!!! > > Hi > > I have had only one short session on EPrime and have been left with > the task of designing my own experiment using this software. However, > the only tools I have are a guide that tells you how to do one > particular type of experiment :( I have no idea how to set up my own > and have searched EVERYWHERE in order to do so. Can anyone help? I am > such a beginner I need a step by step guide! > > My design is simple. I would like to investigate attentional bias > towards emotional stimuli: faces & words. I would like to investigate > this using a dot probe task. Therefore I would like the pictures to > appear side by side: one neutral & one emotional, followed by the > presence of the dot upon which participants must identify where it has > appeared. I would like to measure both accuracy and response times. > Following this, I would like to do the same but with neutral versus > emotional words. > > Lastly, I would like it so that one half of participants complete the > faces trial first and the other half, do the words part first. I would > also like the words and face stimuli to be randomised amongst > participants. > > As I say I have a design but I have no idea what to do and would > really, really appreciate the help. > > Thanks > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 14:11:42 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:11:42 -0800 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds Message-ID: Hi together, I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before some seconds are over. Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then can proceed to the next screen. Any ideas? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 14:47:46 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:47:46 -0800 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds In-Reply-To: <72c0be7e-714e-4c34-a026-1acf54982b3c@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: By far the most simple would be to have two subsequent slides, one with the instruction text and a fixed duration (i.e. 15 seconds) that will then be replaced by a second close to identical slide, that has the additional 'press key to continue' text and is set to terminate on a response... But err yeah... that almost seems too easy doesn't it ;) Best, liw On Feb 1, 3:11 pm, Tobias wrote: > Hi together, > > I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions > to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the > text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before > some seconds are over. > > Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a > certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text > after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then > can proceed to the next screen. > > Any ideas? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 15:02:19 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:02:19 -0800 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds In-Reply-To: <952af2f4-5305-4063-bb18-3fe62bcebde1@19g2000yql.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I guess that would be to easy. Well I see, it works - anyway, is there an easier way? I sometimes like it more sophisticated ;) On 1 Feb., 15:47, liwenna wrote: > By far the most simple would be to have two subsequent slides, one > with the instruction text and a fixed duration (i.e. 15 seconds) that > will then be replaced by a second close to identical slide, that has > the additional 'press key to continue' text and is set to terminate on > a response... > > But err yeah... that almost seems too easy doesn't it ;) > > Best, > > liw > > On Feb 1, 3:11 pm, Tobias wrote: > > > Hi together, > > > I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions > > to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the > > text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before > > some seconds are over. > > > Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a > > certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text > > after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then > > can proceed to the next screen. > > > Any ideas? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 16:15:54 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:15:54 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT Message-ID: Hi everybody, I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So far I have only had limited success although I think it should be pretty simple to do what I need. On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick movement to be recorded to the data file. It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do this type of thing? Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very appreciated. Thanks! Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 17:00:21 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:00:21 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <6ced274a-611e-4a89-bee3-e82334ce9c2c@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > pretty simple to do what I need. > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > this type of thing? > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > appreciated. > > Thanks! > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 20:02:01 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:02:01 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <7587d46a-ce63-4f6c-b16f-9fa645e5e067@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > this type of thing? > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out.  Although I don't like > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > appreciated. > > > Thanks! > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dolphin2002 at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 20:59:47 2010 From: dolphin2002 at gmail.com (CT_Robert) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:59:47 -0800 Subject: Dual Task design Message-ID: Hi All, I am new to E-Prime, and I've been through a few of the tutorials. I think I need some advice on how to set-up the following design with 2 tasks. 1) Task 1. Conditioned Fear. Subject hears one of two distinct tones. Each tone is on for 7.5s. For TONE1, after the 7.5s, a loud aversive tone is played for 500ms (CS+). For TONE2, after the 7.5s, no tone is played (CS-). There is a 10s ITI between these tones occurring. 2) Task 2. Go/No-Go Task. Participant sees an X or a K in the middle of the screen. Participant is to press the space bar when he sees an X and to withhold responding when he sees a K. These are on for 500ms and have a jittered ITI. This task should occur thoughout both conditions of Task 1 as well as during the ITI. The goal is to see how performance on the Go/No-Go task is affected by the increased arousal seen in the fearful condition (TONE1), so I will compare responding during TONE1 and TONE2. I somebody could give me some design advice, I will give it a try and return if I encounter problems. Offhand, I am trying Trial Procedure with two Slides, 1 auditory, 1 visual. But, they seem to proceed sequentiall. So, my 7.5s Auditory stimulus plays completely before moving on to the GoNoGo stimulus. I'd like the Auditory to start, and then move on to the next slide in the Procedure. But, perhaps this is a bad approach? Advice? Thanks so much. Robert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 21:08:39 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:08:39 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for forgiving me. Unfortunately that's also where my knowledge in implementing joysticks ends... I hope with you that someone else knows the trick. On Feb 1, 9:02 pm, Nick wrote: > I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > this type of thing? > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out.  Although I don't like > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > appreciated. > > > > Thanks! > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 1 21:08:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:08:29 -0500 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: liw indeed gave you the easy way. But if you want a more complicated way, here you go... (1) Put up your instruction Slide for, let's say, 15 seconds, taking no response. Follow that with a Wait object with infinite Duration that does get a response with an End Action of Terminate. Your subject will see the instructions for 15 s, then the instructions will simply remain until they respond to the Wait. (2) Or, as above, put up your instruction Slide for 15 s, taking no response. This time follow it with another Slide or TextDisplay that adds only the "press key to continue" and then gets a response as above -- if you fiddle with the Frame Width, Height, X, Y, and BackStyle transparent you can overlay your new display without disturbing the earlier instruction display. I have done this to create all sorts of effects myself. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Yeah, I guess that would be to easy. Well I see, it works - anyway, is >there an easier way? I sometimes like it more sophisticated ;) > >On 1 Feb., 15:47, liwenna wrote: > > By far the most simple would be to have two subsequent slides, one > > with the instruction text and a fixed duration (i.e. 15 seconds) that > > will then be replaced by a second close to identical slide, that has > > the additional 'press key to continue' text and is set to terminate on > > a response... > > > > But err yeah... that almost seems too easy doesn't it ;) > > > > Best, > > > > liw > > > > On Feb 1, 3:11 pm, Tobias wrote: > > > > > Hi together, > > > > > I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions > > > to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the > > > text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before > > > some seconds are over. > > > > > Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a > > > certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text > > > after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then > > > can proceed to the next screen. > > > > > Any ideas? > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 1 21:21:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:21:29 -0500 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless thoughts. If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick that used good quality micro switches. These gave simple off-on switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or corner. Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital I/O card. Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the ReadPort function from script. Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating system got out of our way... -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > this type of thing? > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > appreciated. > > > > > Thanks! > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:12:09 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:12:09 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4b630e69.5244f10a.078e.4caaSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hmm, on further thought (without benefit of getting StartupInfo files to work yet myself) I think that, in order to have each student's data files go into a separate directory, you would still need to give each student their own copy of the experiment program along with a mated StartupInfo file. This still seems rather clumsy -- among other things every time you revised the experiment program you would have to redo all the copies for each student, and you could accomplish much the same end without StartupInfo files just by giving each student their own directory containing their own copy of the experiment program. So I might have to retract a bit of my earlier enthusiasm for the StartupInfo file mechansism. (BTW, the "New Features Guide" that went out with EP2.0.8.73 has the wrong figure for section 1.6.2.1 about the StartupInfo Editor. Matt at PST kindly sent me his original (and correct) version of that section, and I posted that at http://www.pstnet.com/forum/Topic4015-6-1.aspx for everyone.) But now the good news -- I totally cracked this longstanding problem! (Or did I just fail to do a proper search of the archive?). It's not even that hard, and we had the clues all along in the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. I will post my solution in a separate thread with a title like "How to use a custom data file or path name." -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On 29 Jan 2010 David McFarlane wrote: > Liza, > > OK, now that I have looked at the documentation, I can say that the > StartupInfo file absolutely addresses your original question, i.e., it > provides a fine mechanism for managing the data file name and path in > any way you like, and many more things besides. Your programs can even > modify the StartupInfo file with your own script. Think of the > possibilities! Every once in a while PST gets something right, and this > looks like one of those times. It's just too bad that they are so > stingy in releasing the information. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:16:24 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:16:24 -0500 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: How to use a custom data file or path name In-Reply-To: <4b630e69.5244f10a.078e.4caaSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: E-Prime automatically puts data files into the same directory as the .ebs (or .ebs2) file, and gives each one a name of the form Experiment>--.edat (or .edat2). But what if you want to customize the file name, or change the path to put data files in a chosen directory location? You can do this by taking control of the Context.Datafile object, which you may learn about in the online E-Basic Help or from the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. You would then add the appropriate inline code as the first thing in your SessionProc. Here is an example script that you may build on. For the sake of this example we ask the experimenter for their initials (and then add that to the file name), though in practice we would more likely make this a StartupInfo parameter. ' Close data file already started in the Main() routine. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Close Kill c.DataFile.FileName ' might as well also delete it End If ' Construct new file or path name any way you like. You may want to ' add code to deal with potential problems such as existing (duplicate) ' or illegal file names and non-existent directories. Dim exptrID as String exptrID = AskBox( "Enter experimenter initials:" ) c.DataFile.Filename = c.GetAttrib("Experiment") & "-" & exptrID & "-" _ & c.GetAttrib("Subject") & "-" & c.GetAttrib("Session") & ".txt" ' Start new data file. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Open c.LogHeader End If Note that this method uses ordinary features of E-Prime and should work with every version going back to 1.0. A couple of warnings: First, if you use this to change the data path, pay attention to the use of forward slashes ("/") vs. backslashes ("\") as path separators in E-Prime strings, as discussed at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2336-12-1.aspx and elsewhere. Second, without care you could easily lose data doing this, so do not do this unless you know what you are doing and can enforce the proper safeguards. -- David McFarlane, E-Prime Master & Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:22:53 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:22:53 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4B678AF8.1070004@msu.edu> Message-ID: Arrgh! How did that happen? Somehow my last post changed the name of this thread, now I am just trying to set it back, darn this Mozilla Thunderbird, this never happens with Eudora! Then I have to repost my "Mastering E-Prime" as a separate thread. So sorry for the mess! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:27:37 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:27:37 -0500 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: How to use a custom data file or path name Message-ID: E-Prime automatically puts data files into the same directory as the .ebs (or .ebs2) file, and gives each one a name of the form --.edat (or .edat2). But what if you want to customize the file name, or change the path to put data files in a chosen directory location? You can do this by taking control of the Context.Datafile object, which you may learn about in the online E-Basic Help or from the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. You would then add the appropriate inline code as the first thing in your SessionProc. Here is an example script that you may build on. For the sake of this example we ask the experimenter for their initials (and then add that to the file name), though in practice we would more likely make this a StartupInfo parameter. ' Close data file already started in the Main() routine. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Close Kill c.DataFile.FileName ' might as well also delete it End If ' Construct new file or path name any way you like. You may want to ' add code to deal with potential problems such as existing (duplicate) ' or illegal file names and non-existent directories. Dim exptrID as String exptrID = AskBox( "Enter experimenter initials:" ) c.DataFile.Filename = c.GetAttrib("Experiment") & "-" & exptrID & "-" _ & c.GetAttrib("Subject") & "-" & c.GetAttrib("Session") & ".txt" ' Start new data file. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Open c.LogHeader End If Note that this method uses ordinary features of E-Prime and should work with every version going back to 1.0. A couple of warnings: First, if you use this to change the data path, pay attention to the use of forward slashes ("/") vs. backslashes ("\") as path separators in E-Prime strings, as discussed at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2336-12-1.aspx and elsewhere. Second, without care you could easily lose data doing this, so do not do this unless you know what you are doing and can enforce the proper safeguards. -- David McFarlane, E-Prime Master & Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:34:26 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4B678D99.1070306@msu.edu> Message-ID: Triple arrgh! The system is simply cursed tonight, every time I try to post something it changes the name of this thread again!!! So I will try to restore it once more and let it rest for tonight, then I will try again tomorrow morning after the gremlins have gone to rest. So, so sorry to everyone for the mess. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 10:23:12 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:23:12 -0800 Subject: Dual Task design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hurray and rejoice! The broken 'search this group' function seems to be fixed! Robert I never did dual taks design so no first-hand help here. But I went searching for a thread on dual task design that I remembered and it turns out that there have been many threads on dual task design. You can find them all here: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/search?group=e-prime&q=dual+task&qt_g=Search+this+group Enjoy! liw On Feb 1, 9:59 pm, CT_Robert wrote: > Hi All, > I am new to E-Prime, and I've been through a few of the tutorials.  I > think I need some advice on how to set-up the following design with 2 > tasks. > > 1) Task 1.  Conditioned Fear.  Subject hears one of two distinct > tones.  Each tone is on for 7.5s.  For TONE1, after the 7.5s, a loud > aversive tone is played for 500ms (CS+).  For TONE2, after the 7.5s, > no tone is played (CS-).  There is a 10s ITI between these tones > occurring. > > 2) Task 2. Go/No-Go Task.  Participant sees an X or a K in the middle > of the screen.  Participant is to press the space bar when he sees an > X and to withhold responding when he sees a K.  These are on for 500ms > and have a jittered ITI.  This task should occur thoughout both > conditions of Task 1 as well as during the ITI. > > The goal is to see how performance on the Go/No-Go task is affected by > the increased arousal seen in the fearful condition (TONE1), so I will > compare responding during TONE1 and TONE2. > > I somebody could give me some design advice, I will give it a try and > return if I encounter problems.  Offhand, I am trying  Trial Procedure > with two Slides, 1 auditory, 1 visual.  But, they seem to proceed > sequentiall.  So, my 7.5s Auditory stimulus plays completely before > moving on to the GoNoGo stimulus.  I'd like the Auditory to start, and > then move on to the next slide in the Procedure. > > But, perhaps this is a bad approach?  Advice? > > Thanks so much. > > Robert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk Tue Feb 2 10:45:49 2010 From: liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk (LizaM) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:45:49 -0800 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4B6789F9.9040600@msu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for a very comprehensive post there David - I will peruse that when I have a little more time... Many Thanks Liza On Feb 2, 2:12 am, David McFarlane wrote: > Hmm, on further thought (without benefit of getting StartupInfo files to > work yet myself) I think that, in order to have each student's data > files go into a separate directory, you would still need to give each > student their own copy of the experiment program along with a mated > StartupInfo file.  This still seems rather clumsy -- among other things > every time you revised the experiment program you would have to redo all > the copies for each student, and you could accomplish much the same end > without StartupInfo files just by giving each student their own > directory containing their own copy of the experiment program.  So I > might have to retract a bit of my earlier enthusiasm for the StartupInfo > file mechansism. > > (BTW, the "New Features Guide" that went out with EP2.0.8.73 has the > wrong figure for section 1.6.2.1 about the StartupInfo Editor.  Matt at > PST kindly sent me his original (and correct) version of that section, > and I posted that athttp://www.pstnet.com/forum/Topic4015-6-1.aspxfor > everyone.) > > But now the good news -- I totally cracked this longstanding problem! > (Or did I just fail to do a proper search of the archive?).  It's not > even that hard, and we had the clues all along in the code that E-Studio > generates for the Main() routine.  I will post my solution in a separate > thread with a title like "How to use a custom data file or path name." > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On 29 Jan 2010 David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Liza, > > > OK, now that I have looked at the documentation, I can say that the > > StartupInfo file absolutely addresses your original question, i.e., it > > provides a fine mechanism for managing the data file name and path in > > any way you like, and many more things besides.  Your programs can even > > modify the StartupInfo file with your own script.  Think of the > > possibilities!  Every once in a while PST gets something right, and this > > looks like one of those times.  It's just too bad that they are so > > stingy in releasing the information.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk Tue Feb 2 10:50:27 2010 From: liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk (LizaM) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:50:27 -0800 Subject: Selecting randomly which list object from one of 2 lists is shown on each position on a slide... Message-ID: Hello, In the experiment I am currently programming the student has 2 sets of images - a male face list and a female face list. I have made these into 2 list objects. I have created as slide object with 2 image displays on it and currently I have male faces displaying on the left and female on the right.... I want the EPrime file to randomly select whether the images are displayed male left, female right, or male right, female left so that we don't get an effect from one set of images always being on the one side - how can I achieve this??? Many Thanks Liza -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 11:04:17 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 03:04:17 -0800 Subject: Selecting randomly which list object from one of 2 lists is shown on each position on a slide... In-Reply-To: <8e7d6f03-03c1-4a92-a387-e725a1b8d344@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: The positions of the images are determined by the x and y value of the imageobjects. These are either pixels (i.e. x = 250 = 250th pixel from the left side of the screen) or percentages (f.i 25% and 75%). Create a 'positionslist' with two attributes 'posimage1' and 'posimage2' and put your current values of x in this list i.e level 1 posimage1= 25% and posimage2 = 75% and the other way around on the second level. Randomize the list. Nest this somewhere into your triallist (I would suggest to merge your current two lists into 1 list again with two separate attributes for image1 and image2). Lastly tell your imageobjects to get their x values from the attributes [posimage1] and [posimage2]. Done. best, liw On Feb 2, 11:50 am, LizaM wrote: > Hello, > > In the experiment I am currently programming the student has 2 sets of > images - a male face list and a female face list.  I have made these > into 2 list objects.  I have created as slide object with 2 image > displays on it and currently I have male faces displaying on the left > and female on the right....  I want the EPrime file to randomly select > whether the images are displayed male left, female right, or male > right, female left so that we don't get an  effect from one set of > images always being on the one side - how can I achieve this??? > > Many Thanks > > Liza -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 14:27:06 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:27:06 -0500 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: How to use a custom data file or path name Message-ID: E-Prime automatically puts data files into the same directory as the .ebs (or .ebs2) file, and gives each one a name of the form --.edat (or .edat2). But what if you want to customize the file name, or change the path to put data files in a chosen directory location? You can do this by taking control of the Context.Datafile object, which you may learn about in the online E-Basic Help or from the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. You would then add the appropriate inline code as the first thing in your SessionProc. Here is an example script that you may build on. For the sake of this example we ask the experimenter for their initials (and then add that to the file name), though in practice we would more likely make this a StartupInfo parameter. ' Close data file already started in the Main() routine. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Close Kill c.DataFile.FileName ' might as well also delete it End If ' Construct new file or path name any way you like. You may want to ' add code to deal with potential problems such as existing (duplicate) ' or illegal file names and non-existent directories. Dim exptrID as String exptrID = AskBox( "Enter experimenter initials:" ) c.DataFile.Filename = c.GetAttrib("Experiment") & "-" & exptrID & "-" _ & c.GetAttrib("Subject") & "-" & c.GetAttrib("Session") & ".txt" ' Start new data file. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Open c.LogHeader End If Note that this method uses ordinary features of E-Prime and should work with every version going back to 1.0. A couple of warnings: First, if you use this to change the data path, pay attention to the use of forward slashes ("/") vs. backslashes ("\") as path separators in E-Prime strings, as discussed at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2336-12-1.aspx and elsewhere. Second, without care you could easily lose data doing this, so do not do this unless you know what you are doing and can enforce the proper safeguards. -- David McFarlane, E-Prime Master & Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 14:31:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:31:10 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4b683655.5344f10a.7863.28ceSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Very sorry to all for my multiple posts. I finally got Google Groups to accept my start of a new thread, now just restoring the original title of this thread. That should do it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 16:05:16 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:05:16 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <4b6745f2.5344f10a.7863.ffffe740SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Thanks for the interesting suggestion. I think we're kinda locked into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near future having never done anything like that before. The frustrating thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first direction & RT by any chance? On Feb 1, 3:21 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > thoughts.  If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > that used good quality micro switches.  These gave simple off-on > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > corner.  Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > I/O card.  Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > ReadPort function from script. > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > system got out of our way... > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out.  Although I don't like > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > appreciated. > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 16:27:39 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:27:39 -0500 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nick, Fair question, and sadly the answer is no, I have not yet had any experience whatsoever with modern joysticks in E-Prime. And if the past is any guide, my saying that means that, almost certainly, one of the labs here is just about to bring me such a project... But hey, as I keep saying, that's what PST Web Support is for, so please contact them post haste at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. And if you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please do us all the favor of posting their reply back here. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/2/2010 11:05 AM Tuesday, Nick wrote: >Hi David, > >Thanks for the interesting suggestion. I think we're kinda locked >into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we >have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that >I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near >future having never done anything like that before. The frustrating >thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except >for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- >line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first >direction & RT by any chance? > >On Feb 1, 3:21 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > > thoughts. If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > > that used good quality micro switches. These gave simple off-on > > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > > corner. Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > > I/O card. Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > > ReadPort function from script. > > > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > > system got out of our way... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 16:41:10 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:41:10 -0800 Subject: nested list according to startup information Message-ID: Hi there, some time ago I asked here in the forum how to specify a correct response according to startup information (such as group, session etc.). A solution similar to this was suggested (I think by liwenna): If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 then c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespA") elseif c.getattrib ("group") = 2 then c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespB") end if Well that worked perfectly. However, this time I don't want to specifiy the correct response but which nested list is called from another list. This doesn't seem to work similarly, probably because an attribute in the list (i.e. "nested") refering to a variable, e.g. [listA] tries to already call a list before an inline can deliver that information. Any ideas how to solve that problem? THanks a lot, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 17:34:50 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:34:50 -0500 Subject: nested list according to startup information In-Reply-To: <2d569a85-fb3b-4221-ae56-8e016aae7486@a5g2000yqi.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Tobias, Hmm, just out of curiousity I threw together a quick demo, took me all of 10 minutes, I had no trouble using an attribute reference to name a nested List. I will send you my little EP1 demo program privately. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi there, > >some time ago I asked here in the forum how to specify a correct >response according to startup information (such as group, session >etc.). A solution similar to this was suggested (I think by liwenna): > >If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 then > c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespA") > elseif c.getattrib ("group") = 2 then > c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespB") >end if > > >Well that worked perfectly. However, this time I don't want to >specifiy the correct response but which nested list is called from >another list. >This doesn't seem to work similarly, probably because an attribute in >the list (i.e. "nested") refering to a variable, e.g. [listA] tries to >already call a list before an inline can deliver that information. > >Any ideas how to solve that problem? > >THanks a lot, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From shivani.shivipr at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 06:33:50 2010 From: shivani.shivipr at gmail.com (Shivani R) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:33:50 -0800 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help Message-ID: Hi, I am designing an experiment using E Prime. In this experiment an image comes up on the screen, the subject has to make a decision if the image was a target or distractor. I need to send a trigger at the instant when the picture comes up on the screen. Also I need to send a trigger to say if it was a target or distractor image. I have been trying to do this but not getting it the way I want. The trigger is coming at the instant the fixation comes up on the screen whereas I want the trigger at the instant the picture comes up on the screen. I read some previous posts on the same topic and tried putting my logic in the same way but to no use. Right now I am using the following code: "Fixation" is the object which displays the fixation and "Stimulus" is the object which displays the picture. I have two parallel ports avaialble in my PC - &H378 and &HCCE0. In the TrialList I have an attribute named as "Type" which tells if the image is a target or distractor. Inline1 is as follows: Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = &H01 Inline2 is as follows: If c.GetAttrib("Type") = Target Then WritePort &HCCE0, 1 ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Type") = Distractor Then WritePort &HCCE0, 2 End If The main problem I am facing is regarding the position of the inline script. Right now I have placed the Inline1 just before the Stimulus object and Inline2 just after the Stimulus object. Please let me know where I am going wrong in the placement of the inline script. Any help is really appreciated. Regards Shivani -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at Wed Feb 3 08:34:47 2010 From: daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at (Daniela Pfabigan) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:34:47 +0100 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help In-Reply-To: <43f6757d-8b56-458f-8506-04e496356c9d@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, try the following lines Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 Instruktion.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("Type") Place this inline just before the object 'Stimulus'. Cheers, Daniela Shivani R schrieb: > Hi, > > I am designing an experiment using E Prime. In this experiment an > image comes up on the screen, the subject has to make a decision if > the image was a target or distractor. I need to send a trigger at the > instant when the picture comes up on the screen. Also I need to send a > trigger to say if it was a target or distractor image. I have been > trying to do this but not getting it the way I want. The trigger is > coming at the instant the fixation comes up on the screen whereas I > want the trigger at the instant the picture comes up on the screen. I > read some previous posts on the same topic and tried putting my logic > in the same way but to no use. > > Right now I am using the following code: > > "Fixation" is the object which displays the fixation and "Stimulus" is > the object which displays the picture. I have two parallel ports > avaialble in my PC - &H378 and &HCCE0. In the TrialList I have an > attribute named as "Type" which tells if the image is a target or > distractor. > > Inline1 is as follows: > > Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True > Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 > Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = &H01 > > Inline2 is as follows: > > If c.GetAttrib("Type") = Target Then > WritePort &HCCE0, 1 > ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Type") = Distractor Then > WritePort &HCCE0, 2 > End If > > The main problem I am facing is regarding the position of the inline > script. Right now I have placed the Inline1 just before the Stimulus > object and Inline2 just after the Stimulus object. Please let me know > where I am going wrong in the placement of the inline script. Any > help is really appreciated. > > > Regards > Shivani > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at Wed Feb 3 09:35:46 2010 From: daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at (Daniela Pfabigan) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:35:46 +0100 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help In-Reply-To: <4B693527.7070103@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: ...sorry, typo third line should be: Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("Type") > Hi, > > try the following lines > > Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True > > Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 > > Instruktion.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("Type") > > > > Place this inline just before the object 'Stimulus'. > > Cheers, > Daniela > > > > Shivani R schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> I am designing an experiment using E Prime. In this experiment an >> image comes up on the screen, the subject has to make a decision if >> the image was a target or distractor. I need to send a trigger at the >> instant when the picture comes up on the screen. Also I need to send a >> trigger to say if it was a target or distractor image. I have been >> trying to do this but not getting it the way I want. The trigger is >> coming at the instant the fixation comes up on the screen whereas I >> want the trigger at the instant the picture comes up on the screen. I >> read some previous posts on the same topic and tried putting my logic >> in the same way but to no use. >> >> Right now I am using the following code: >> >> "Fixation" is the object which displays the fixation and "Stimulus" is >> the object which displays the picture. I have two parallel ports >> avaialble in my PC - &H378 and &HCCE0. In the TrialList I have an >> attribute named as "Type" which tells if the image is a target or >> distractor. >> >> Inline1 is as follows: >> >> Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True >> Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 >> Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = &H01 >> >> Inline2 is as follows: >> >> If c.GetAttrib("Type") = Target Then >> WritePort &HCCE0, 1 >> ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Type") = Distractor Then >> WritePort &HCCE0, 2 >> End If >> >> The main problem I am facing is regarding the position of the inline >> script. Right now I have placed the Inline1 just before the Stimulus >> object and Inline2 just after the Stimulus object. Please let me know >> where I am going wrong in the placement of the inline script. Any >> help is really appreciated. >> >> >> Regards >> Shivani >> >> > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk Wed Feb 3 11:00:33 2010 From: liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk (LizaM) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:00:33 -0800 Subject: Selecting randomly which list object from one of 2 lists is shown on each position on a slide... In-Reply-To: <5032f33b-da96-4ace-b104-b9e5068ec081@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: That works perfectly! Thank you very much :) Having used the same method to randomly select duration etc I should have extrapolated that would be the case! On Feb 2, 11:04 am, liwenna wrote: > The positions of the images are determined by the x and y value of the > imageobjects. These are either pixels (i.e. x = 250 = 250th pixel from > the left side of the screen) or percentages (f.i 25% and 75%). > Create a 'positionslist' with two attributes 'posimage1' and > 'posimage2' and put your current values of x in this list i.e level 1 > posimage1= 25% and posimage2 = 75% and the other way around on the > second level. Randomize the list. Nest this somewhere into your > triallist (I would suggest to merge your current two lists into 1 list > again with two separate attributes for image1 and image2). Lastly tell > your imageobjects to get their x values from the attributes > [posimage1] and [posimage2]. > > Done. > > best, > > liw > > On Feb 2, 11:50 am, LizaM wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > In the experiment I am currently programming the student has 2 sets of > > images - a male face list and a female face list.  I have made these > > into 2 list objects.  I have created as slide object with 2 image > > displays on it and currently I have male faces displaying on the left > > and female on the right....  I want the EPrime file to randomly select > > whether the images are displayed male left, female right, or male > > right, female left so that we don't get an  effect from one set of > > images always being on the one side - how can I achieve this??? > > > Many Thanks > > > Liza- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 11:45:41 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:45:41 -0800 Subject: nested list according to startup information In-Reply-To: <4b68627b.5944f10a.0edf.29c8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David, thanks a lot for the files. It helped me finding my fault. I was using If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 or c.getattrib ("group") = 3 or c.getattrib ("group") = 5 or c.getattrib ("group") = 7 then c.setattrib "nested1", c.getattrib ("grouped") whereat "grouped" is not an attribute... that is why the error message came. Now it works, though. By the way: Apparently you are still using E-Prime 1. Is there a particular reason for that? Best, Tobias On 2 Feb., 18:34, David McFarlane wrote: > Tobias, > > Hmm, just out of curiousity I threw together a quick demo, took me > all of 10 minutes, I had no trouble using an attribute reference to > name a nested List.  I will send you my little EP1 demo program privately. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >Hi there, > > >some time ago I asked here in the forum how to specify a correct > >response according to startup information (such as group, session > >etc.). A solution similar to this was suggested (I think by liwenna): > > >If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 then > >        c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespA") > >        elseif c.getattrib ("group") = 2 then > >        c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespB") > >end if > > >Well that worked perfectly. However, this time I don't want to > >specifiy the correct response but which nested list is called from > >another list. > >This doesn't seem to work similarly, probably because an attribute in > >the list (i.e. "nested") refering to a variable, e.g. [listA] tries to > >already call a list before an inline can deliver that information. > > >Any ideas how to solve that problem? > > >THanks a lot, > >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Feb 3 11:19:10 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:19:10 -0000 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <4b6852a7.5944f10a.1178.2ecfSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, Well - I do actually have script that gets you to run an XBOX-360 controller (convenient, because they connect using USB and Microsoft tends to release source-code for drivers of such things) on one computer which then connects with a serial cable to another one running E-Prime? It's even able to send continuous data from the various buttons and sticks on the XBOX, AND can receive commands to make it vibrate! Groovy! Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 02 February 2010 16:28 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Joystick direction as response & RT Nick, Fair question, and sadly the answer is no, I have not yet had any experience whatsoever with modern joysticks in E-Prime. And if the past is any guide, my saying that means that, almost certainly, one of the labs here is just about to bring me such a project... But hey, as I keep saying, that's what PST Web Support is for, so please contact them post haste at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. And if you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please do us all the favor of posting their reply back here. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/2/2010 11:05 AM Tuesday, Nick wrote: >Hi David, > >Thanks for the interesting suggestion. I think we're kinda locked >into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we >have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that >I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near >future having never done anything like that before. The frustrating >thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except >for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- >line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first >direction & RT by any chance? > >On Feb 1, 3:21 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > > thoughts. If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > > that used good quality micro switches. These gave simple off-on > > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > > corner. Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > > I/O card. Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > > ReadPort function from script. > > > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > > system got out of our way... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Feb 3 14:53:59 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:53:59 -0500 Subject: nested list according to startup information In-Reply-To: <1e463246-259d-4912-b6fd-01ab2e1e3faa@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Tobias, > By the way: Apparently you are still using E-Prime 1. Is there a > particular reason for that? Glad you asked. Actually, I do work with both EP1 and EP2. But I reserve EP2 for just those times when it is required (e.g., playing movies, or for labs that have only EP2), and otherwise stick to EP1 for a few reasons. First, everything in EP1 has continued to work under Vista, whereas some features in EP2 did not (e.g., sound). Second, EP1 is more lightweight and snappy than EP2 -- e.g., when I hit F7 my program just runs, none of this "please wait while E-Prime initializes" nonsense every time I save, generate, or run a file. Third, and most germane to this context, EP1 is far superior for exploring how E-Basic works -- I can type complete tiny three-line programs into E-Run and run those instantly to see how any E-Basic statement actually works, no need to employ all the baggage of E-Studio and enter Subject, Session, etc. each time just to see how one line of code works. I have learned more about E-Basic through E-Run than by any other means, and I pity the rest of you who have been deprived of that by PST with EP2. Finally, I purposely choose the lowest common denominator for my little demo programs. If I wrote those in EP2 then only users with EP2 could benefit from them, but if I write in EP1 then everyone can benefit (until PST also takes that away, just as Microsoft now disables Office from reading their own earlier file formats). Just trying to be a good E-Prime citizen. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From shivani.shivipr at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 22:55:30 2010 From: shivani.shivipr at gmail.com (Shivani R) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:55:30 -0800 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help In-Reply-To: <4B694372.5030704@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks a lot for your reply. I am trying to put the above logic in my experiment. But I think that Stimulus.OnsetSignalData should be given some numerical value between 0 to 255. I guess it cannot be assigned equal to c.GetAttrib("Type"). I am trying to test this and will let you know the results. Thanks again Regards Shivani -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From roccorocks5 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 4 01:37:43 2010 From: roccorocks5 at yahoo.com (neuropsych76) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:37:43 -0800 Subject: Only certain slides appear Message-ID: I have a series of four slides and I'm trying to put them in random order. However, I only want one slide to appear per session and not the other 3 slides while the one slide appearing still being randomly selected. How would I do this? Thank you!! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Feb 4 10:10:54 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 02:10:54 -0800 Subject: Only certain slides appear In-Reply-To: <5d03dd3b-1a05-45dc-b868-9842e6e10754@o23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Take one slide and give it three extra 'states' call them a b c and d or whatever is convenient for you. Create each of your slides in one of the four slidestates. Create a slidestatelist with variable called f.i 'displaystate' and give it four levels with the values a b c and d. Randomise the list and nest the list in your triallist. In the properties of the slide make the slidestate refer to the variable displaystate by filling in [displaystate]. For each trial that slide will now show only one of the slidestates dependent on which level of the slidestatelist is selected. Best, liw On Feb 4, 2:37 am, neuropsych76 wrote: > I have a series of four slides and I'm trying to put them in random > order. However, I only want one slide to appear per session and not > the other 3 slides while the one slide appearing still being randomly > selected. How would I do this? > > Thank you!! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Feb 4 11:22:17 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:22:17 -0000 Subject: Only certain slides appear In-Reply-To: <5d03dd3b-1a05-45dc-b868-9842e6e10754@o23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, If I understand you correctly, which I somehow doubt, you have four slides, in random order, but only want one to appear? Why do you have four slides then? Perhaps you might want to go for one slide with four states (look up the activestate property), which is basically four sheets in one book (this is how I would explain it to students), with the selected state via counterbalanced, retrieved from an attribute. Without using different slidestates, you might also consider using four procedures, the particular one selected in a list, counterbalanced (thus also only one per session). Thirdly, you could go for a series of labels between the four slides such that only one is shown, the rest skipped. Fourth, you could merely run the slide you want with a little inline (e.g. Slide4.run). Anyway, many options, but lacking details of what you want exactly, you may find my advice completely off the mark... Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of neuropsych76 Sent: 04 February 2010 01:38 To: E-Prime Subject: Only certain slides appear I have a series of four slides and I'm trying to put them in random order. However, I only want one slide to appear per session and not the other 3 slides while the one slide appearing still being randomly selected. How would I do this? Thank you!! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nickfraenkel at googlemail.com Thu Feb 4 14:15:58 2010 From: nickfraenkel at googlemail.com (Nick F) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:15:58 -0800 Subject: SoundIn problems: "Unable to find sound capture device" Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying to set up an experiment using the SoundIn object to record participants' responses. The problem I'm having is that every time I try to run or generate, I receive the following error message: "A Fatal Error occurred while generating the initialization code for the E-Object named 'SoundIn1' Error Message: Unable to find sound capture device. Ensure that a sound capture device is available." I've tried with both an external USB audio-recording soundcard and the computer's internal soundcard, and I get the same error with both. There doesn't seem to be any problem with the soundcards: E-Prime's SoundOut object will play without complaint using either card, and I'm able to record audio input in software other than E-Prime. If anyone has any experience of getting E-Prime to work with audio input, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions as to what might work. Here is my set-up: E-Prime 2.0.8.22 Professional / Windows XP Edirol UA-25 USB soundcard Many Thanks, Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From scarpais at hotmail.co.uk Thu Feb 4 17:23:15 2010 From: scarpais at hotmail.co.uk (scarpais) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:23:15 -0800 Subject: Face Recognition Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi liw, Thank you so much for your quick response. I apologise for the late reply. In answer to your first comment, the teacher felt that given time constraints, it would be impossible to program this design (dot probe). I have little time in which to do this task! It is ostensibly a simple design from my point of you also but I know little about E Prime and I think that's what he was getting at. In answer to the following: Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > This is correct. Simple as you can see. Only again, the fact that I know little about E Prime is making the task impossible. I have now sat for hours trying to work out how to do this to no avail :( On Jan 31, 1:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey Scarpais, > > Quite frankly I fail to see how a dot-probe is too problematic to > design using e-prime. E-prime is absolutely able to 'do it'. So... > could it be that your teacher actually tried to say that your set-up > was too complex for that specific assignment? I.e. a too complex > design for the given time? > > As for your new design: it seems about as complex as your intial > design was? Is what you describe the course of a single trial or the > complete test? I gather the latter? Then what would be the purpose of > response times? > > Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > > Well you had a basic lesson of e-prime so you're familiair with lists > and procedures. What you need are four lists on your testprocedure, > one for each type of stimulus (faces no interaciton, words no > interaction, words recognition and faces recognition) and a separate > procedure for each proc. Each procedure would hold a slide  (or a text/ > imageobject) that shows the stimulus and has it's properties set to > the needs of that list. And perhaps some fancy extra's like a > trialinterval slide. It's really quite simple. > > Don't fear e-prime! Open your e-studio and simply start making the > first part of the experiment: faces passive viewing. Once you got that > you can add the words passive viewing and from there it's not hard to > create the faces and words recognitions lists and procedures. Just > take it step by step and I think you'll find that it's all far less > difficult than you think now. > > Also: Michiel's book is a really nice guide, and I read that you have > some other guides as well. Consult them when you're stuck but dont' > fear to just start fiddling around in e-studio. > > Good luck! > > liw > > On 30 jan, 11:16, scarpais wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > As a newcomer to E Prime I have been told that my proposed experiment > > is going to be too problematic to design using E Prime. My initial > > idea was to design a dot-probe task to measure response times and > > accuracy to the dot probe following paired presentations of a neutral > > vs. an emotional face (happy/sad) and also for neutral vs. emotional > > words. > > > I have went to some lengths however to get my stimuli and would like > > to design something based around this. I was thinking perhaps a face > > recognition task to investigate response times and accuracy once more. > > This time, the faces would be presented in the first instance, a > > mixture of both happy, sad and neutral but this time only one pic at a > > time. Following this, I would like to present a some words > > sequentially. Again these would be a mix of neutral and emotional > > words. > > >  After this, I would like to present the target  faces once more and > > also some face stimuli not included in the first part of the > > experiment and ask participants to state whether this face appeared in > > the first trial or not and then do the same again for the words. > > Measuring both accuracy and response times. > > > This doesn't sound too complicated to me but as a relatively new > > EPrimer I am clueless as to how to go about doing this. I have a > > couple of starting up guides with examples and wondered if anyone had > > an example/tutorial that would show me step by step how to do this > > particular type of experiment? If not, if anyone had any suggestions > > as to how I can do another experiment using this stimuli I'd be > > extremely grateful. > > > I have been informed that my task is to design an experiment using E > > Prime and that it does not matter if it is from an online example or > > tutorial as long as it is not one of the ones from the E Prime > > starting guide. > > > Thanks for reading this!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 4 19:02:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:02:29 -0500 Subject: SoundIn problems: "Unable to find sound capture device" In-Reply-To: <40332ea2-1c36-4928-b353-e727b0fb2ec5@r19g2000yqb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Nick, Please submit this to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. Then please do us a favor and post back here with the result. Also, you might try upgrading to EP2.0.8.73 (Pro), any registered user can download that for free from the PST web site. Glad to see that you are still on XP, many of us have had trouble running EP2 under Vista, and I have not gotten any confirmed reports yet on whether 2.0.8.73 or Win7 fix that. Thanks, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I'm trying to set up an experiment using the SoundIn object to record >participants' responses. The problem I'm having is that every time I >try to run or generate, I receive the following error message: > >"A Fatal Error occurred while generating the initialization code for >the E-Object named 'SoundIn1' >Error Message: Unable to find sound capture device. Ensure that a >sound capture device is available." > >I've tried with both an external USB audio-recording soundcard and the >computer's internal soundcard, and I get the same error with both. >There doesn't seem to be any problem with the soundcards: E-Prime's >SoundOut object will play without complaint using either card, and I'm >able to record audio input in software other than E-Prime. > >If anyone has any experience of getting E-Prime to work with audio >input, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions as to what might work. > >Here is my set-up: > >E-Prime 2.0.8.22 Professional / Windows XP >Edirol UA-25 USB soundcard > >Many Thanks, > >Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Thu Feb 4 22:10:26 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:10:26 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02B48F18@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi All, Below is the great solution I received from E-Prime support. Does exactly what I need it to, I hope it helps others as well. If you do not want subjects to press a button after moving the joystick to the desired position, you can simply access the cursor position directly instead of checking for a button press. This means that you should set the Duration of Stimulus to zero so that the script can be processed immediately; for an example of this method, please see SAMPLE:Process Responses Template. By constantly checking the Y position of the cursor, you can determine whether the subject has responded. Here is an example of the script to use: Dim nInitY As Integer Dim nCurrentY As Integer Dim nDiff As Integer nInitY = Joystick.CursorY Do nCurrentY = Joystick.CursorY nDiff = nInitY - nCurrentY Loop Until Abs(nDiff) > 50 Stimulus.RTTime = Clock.Read Stimulus.RT = Stimulus.RTTime - Stimulus.OnsetTime If nDiff > 0 Then Stimulus.RESP = "Up" Else Stimulus.RESP = "Down" End If On Feb 3, 5:19 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Well - I do actually have script that gets you to run an XBOX-360 controller (convenient, because they connect using USB and Microsoft tends to release source-code for drivers of such things) on one computer which then connects with a serial cable to another one running E-Prime? It's even able to send continuous data from the various buttons and sticks on the XBOX, AND can receive commands to make it vibrate! Groovy! > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > Sent: 02 February 2010 16:28 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Joystick direction as response & RT > > Nick, > > Fair question, and sadly the answer is no, I have not yet had any > experience whatsoever with modern joysticks in E-Prime.  And if the > past is any guide, my saying that means that, almost certainly, one > of the labs here is just about to bring me such a project... > > But hey, as I keep saying, that's what PST Web Support is for, so > please contact them post haste athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, they strive > to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  And if you do get an > answer from PST Web Support, please do us all the favor of posting > their reply back here. > > Regards, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/2/2010 11:05 AM Tuesday, Nick wrote: > >Hi David, > > >Thanks for the interesting suggestion.  I think we're kinda locked > >into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we > >have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that > >I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near > >future having never done anything like that before.  The frustrating > >thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except > >for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- > >line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first > >direction & RT by any chance? > > >On Feb 1, 3:21 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > > > thoughts.  If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > > > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > > > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > > > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > > > that used good quality micro switches.  These gave simple off-on > > > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > > > corner.  Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > > > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > > > I/O card.  Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > > > ReadPort function from script. > > > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > > > system got out of our way... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > > > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > > > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > > > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out.  Although I don't like > > > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Nick > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yanhyu at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 00:36:45 2010 From: yanhyu at gmail.com (Helen) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:36:45 -0500 Subject: onset delays In-Reply-To: <54ff1cf1002041635k3fed6b2bl1a73622744bd3cb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > Hi, > > > > A very naive question from a very novice eprimer: the auditory stimuli > in my experiment have "0" action delay, but onset delay of 0-18 msec. > What is the acceptable range of stimulus onset delay? > > I do not have any eprime manual handy at this moment, and did not see > any discussion about it online. Please forgive me for asking such a > silly question. > > Helen > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 11:16:00 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 03:16:00 -0800 Subject: Face Recognition Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well.. your current task design is somewhat complex in that is has several 'phases' but in terms of 'e-prime mechanics' it's actually very basic. And from what I gather this whole assignment is ment to get you 'going on e-prime' so explaining you how to do everything and/ or sending you a file would completely defy the point. You had an introductionary course and you have several e-prime guides (including the one by Michiel) so you ought to get your way around a bit with lists, procedures and slideobjects. I'll repeat my earlier advice to start with just one of the phases of your experiment e.g. the passive viewing of faces and disregard the rest at first. One pointer that I'd like to give is that instead of telling your imageobject directly which file it should show (i.e. state something like 'filename.jpg' in the box 'filename' you can also tell it to fetch a filename from a list that has different filenames in it's different levels. To do this put the filenames in a list under an attribute called for instance 'stimulusfile' and in the filename box of the imageobject fill out [stimulusfile]. Best, liw On Feb 4, 6:23 pm, scarpais wrote: > Hi liw, > > Thank you so much for your quick response. I apologise for the late > reply. > > In answer to your first comment, the teacher felt that given time > constraints, it would be impossible to program this design (dot > probe). I have little time in which to do this task! It is ostensibly > a simple design from my point of you also but I know little about E > Prime and I think that's what he was getting at. > > In answer to the following: > > Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > > > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > > This is correct. Simple as you can see. Only again, the fact that I > know little about E Prime is making the task impossible. I have now > sat for hours trying to work out how to do this to no avail :( > > On Jan 31, 1:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Scarpais, > > > Quite frankly I fail to see how a dot-probe is too problematic to > > design using e-prime. E-prime is absolutely able to 'do it'. So... > > could it be that your teacher actually tried to say that your set-up > > was too complex for that specific assignment? I.e. a too complex > > design for the given time? > > > As for your new design: it seems about as complex as your intial > > design was? Is what you describe the course of a single trial or the > > complete test? I gather the latter? Then what would be the purpose of > > response times? > > > Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > > > Well you had a basic lesson of e-prime so you're familiair with lists > > and procedures. What you need are four lists on your testprocedure, > > one for each type of stimulus (faces no interaciton, words no > > interaction, words recognition and faces recognition) and a separate > > procedure for each proc. Each procedure would hold a slide (or a text/ > > imageobject) that shows the stimulus and has it's properties set to > > the needs of that list. And perhaps some fancy extra's like a > > trialinterval slide. It's really quite simple. > > > Don't fear e-prime! Open your e-studio and simply start making the > > first part of the experiment: faces passive viewing. Once you got that > > you can add the words passive viewing and from there it's not hard to > > create the faces and words recognitions lists and procedures. Just > > take it step by step and I think you'll find that it's all far less > > difficult than you think now. > > > Also: Michiel's book is a really nice guide, and I read that you have > > some other guides as well. Consult them when you're stuck but dont' > > fear to just start fiddling around in e-studio. > > > Good luck! > > > liw > > > On 30 jan, 11:16, scarpais wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > As a newcomer to E Prime I have been told that my proposed experiment > > > is going to be too problematic to design using E Prime. My initial > > > idea was to design a dot-probe task to measure response times and > > > accuracy to the dot probe following paired presentations of a neutral > > > vs. an emotional face (happy/sad) and also for neutral vs. emotional > > > words. > > > > I have went to some lengths however to get my stimuli and would like > > > to design something based around this. I was thinking perhaps a face > > > recognition task to investigate response times and accuracy once more. > > > This time, the faces would be presented in the first instance, a > > > mixture of both happy, sad and neutral but this time only one pic at a > > > time. Following this, I would like to present a some words > > > sequentially. Again these would be a mix of neutral and emotional > > > words. > > > > After this, I would like to present the target faces once more and > > > also some face stimuli not included in the first part of the > > > experiment and ask participants to state whether this face appeared in > > > the first trial or not and then do the same again for the words. > > > Measuring both accuracy and response times. > > > > This doesn't sound too complicated to me but as a relatively new > > > EPrimer I am clueless as to how to go about doing this. I have a > > > couple of starting up guides with examples and wondered if anyone had > > > an example/tutorial that would show me step by step how to do this > > > particular type of experiment? If not, if anyone had any suggestions > > > as to how I can do another experiment using this stimuli I'd be > > > extremely grateful. > > > > I have been informed that my task is to design an experiment using E > > > Prime and that it does not matter if it is from an online example or > > > tutorial as long as it is not one of the ones from the E Prime > > > starting guide. > > > > Thanks for reading this!- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 5 15:48:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:48:56 -0500 Subject: onset delays In-Reply-To: <54ff1cf1002041636p4af2f906k3b674368fdd11efa@mail.gmail.com > Message-ID: Helen, When you do have the manuals handy, study Chapter 3 of the User's Guide. Or make it handy by downloading the .pdf from the PST web site. -- David McFarlane, Professioal Faultfinder At 2/4/2010 07:36 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Hi, > > > >A very naive question from a very novice eprimer: the auditory stimuli >in my experiment have "0" action delay, but onset delay of 0-18 msec. >What is the acceptable range of stimulus onset delay? > >I do not have any eprime manual handy at this moment, and did not see >any discussion about it online. Please forgive me for asking such a >silly question. > >Helen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From rmutreja at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 15:53:58 2010 From: rmutreja at gmail.com (Rachna) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 07:53:58 -0800 Subject: Time Limit Indication Message-ID: For my task, there is an 8 second limit for response time. Is there a way to warn the participant at 6 or 7 seconds that they are running out of time? If participants respond before 8 seconds, the event terminates and moves to the next trial. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 5 16:05:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:05:10 -0500 Subject: Time Limit Indication In-Reply-To: <8d282d0f-60a1-4962-be26-edcab08f12e0@f15g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Rachna, I would do this using "extended input" to cover the 8 s period. Then set the Duration of the stimulus to 6 or 7 s, followed by some warning display (perhaps with a limited Frame so as not to cover the stimulus). Etc. If I used End Action Terminate then I would need some inline code between the stimulus and the warning in order to skip the warning in case a response came before the warning; or, if I used End Action Jump I might get it to jump past the warning after a response without using any code. Start by working through Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime in order to familiarize yourself with extended input, and take it from there. -- David McFarlane, Professioal Faultfinder >For my task, there is an 8 second limit for response time. Is there a >way to warn the participant at 6 or 7 seconds that they are running >out of time? If participants respond before 8 seconds, the event >terminates and moves to the next trial. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 16:15:34 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:15:34 -0800 Subject: closing another application when Eprime resumes from suspend In-Reply-To: <4b6204ee.5344f10a.7f95.315dSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey Dave, Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, we don't have a license for MediaLab, so it looks like I'm stuck to Eprime. PST did get back to me after almost 2 weeks (they're usually much better at responding). Apparently there's an AppClose command that will do just what I want. However, I'm having trouble getting it to work. Not sure if this is because I have the application header wrong, or something else. Anyone have experience using the AppClose() function? Thanks, -Matt On Jan 28, 4:42 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Matt, > > Don't you hate it when someone gives you a useless answer to a > question you did not ask?  Well, I have never explored E-Prime's > Suspend/Resume features, but I think you could run your design much > better in Empirisoft MediaLab (possibly combined with their DirectRT) > rather than E-Prime.  But maybe somebody else here has a real answer for you. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." > > > > >This is my first forum post, and I am an E-prime 2 user.  In my > >protocol, I am displaying some instructions, suspending E-prime to go > >to a web browser, returning to Eprime for a distractor task, and > >suspending E-prime again to open a new web browser window.  I am doing > >this by modifying the "Suspend/Resume" sample on PST's support site > >(http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? > >Mode=View&SampleID=27).  I created two instances of the inline object > >in the sample.  After setting all the variables to zero at the end of > >the first inline and removing the declaration statements in the second > >inline, I sandwiched my list object for the distracter task in the > >middle. > > >This works great when the first browser instance is closed before the > >logical expression... > > >nExitCode = STILL_ACTIVE And (Clock.Read - nStartTime < X) > > >...evaluates to false because X is reached.  However, if the first > >browser instance is left open when E-prime resumes control, then the > >second time I suspend Eprime, it resumes as soon as it opens the > >second browser window.  I think this has something to do with Eprime > >evaluating that the first instance of the browser is still open, since > >the second inline should change nStartTime to a new value as soon as > >the second browser is launched. > > >Do any of you have insights on how I can get Eprime to either 1)close > >the first browser window OR 2) not flake out when calling for a second > >browser to be open? > > >Thanks for your help, > >-Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 8 19:14:35 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:14:35 -0500 Subject: closing another application when Eprime resumes from suspend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Matt, Thanks for posting back with the response from PST. Just in case anyone else wants to use the AppClose command, note that you will not find it in the Index of the online E-Basic Help. Instead, if you want to see the documentation then you will need to use the Find feature to find the topic. I will have to take that up with PST Web Support. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hey Dave, > >Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, we don't have a license for >MediaLab, so it looks like I'm stuck to Eprime. PST did get back to me >after almost 2 weeks (they're usually much better at responding). >Apparently there's an AppClose command that will do just what I want. >However, I'm having trouble getting it to work. Not sure if this is >because I have the application header wrong, or something else. >Anyone have experience using the AppClose() function? > >Thanks, >-Matt > > > >On Jan 28, 4:42 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Matt, > > > > Don't you hate it when someone gives you a useless answer to a > > question you did not ask? Well, I have never explored E-Prime's > > Suspend/Resume features, but I think you could run your design much > > better in Empirisoft MediaLab (possibly combined with their DirectRT) > > rather than E-Prime. But maybe somebody else here has a real > answer for you. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." > > > > > > > > >This is my first forum post, and I am an E-prime 2 user. In my > > >protocol, I am displaying some instructions, suspending E-prime to go > > >to a web browser, returning to Eprime for a distractor task, and > > >suspending E-prime again to open a new web browser window. I am doing > > >this by modifying the "Suspend/Resume" sample on PST's support site > > >(http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? > > >Mode=View&SampleID=27). I created two instances of the inline object > > >in the sample. After setting all the variables to zero at the end of > > >the first inline and removing the declaration statements in the second > > >inline, I sandwiched my list object for the distracter task in the > > >middle. > > > > >This works great when the first browser instance is closed before the > > >logical expression... > > > > >nExitCode = STILL_ACTIVE And (Clock.Read - nStartTime < X) > > > > >...evaluates to false because X is reached. However, if the first > > >browser instance is left open when E-prime resumes control, then the > > >second time I suspend Eprime, it resumes as soon as it opens the > > >second browser window. I think this has something to do with Eprime > > >evaluating that the first instance of the browser is still open, since > > >the second inline should change nStartTime to a new value as soon as > > >the second browser is launched. > > > > >Do any of you have insights on how I can get Eprime to either 1)close > > >the first browser window OR 2) not flake out when calling for a second > > >browser to be open? > > > > >Thanks for your help, > > >-Matt > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From rmutreja at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 22:18:08 2010 From: rmutreja at gmail.com (Rachna) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:18:08 -0800 Subject: Runtime installation Message-ID: Has anyone experienced problems loading the runtime cd to install runtime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 8 22:24:05 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:24:05 -0500 Subject: Runtime installation In-Reply-To: <13f7a6cd-8cf5-4b01-a068-e5051ecc3e17@u26g2000yqm.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Rachna, >Has anyone experienced problems loading the runtime cd to install runtime? Do you have a full license, or runtime only? If a full license, please see discussion of full vs. subject-station installation at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3736-4-1.aspx and http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/1ab4456e77da1eaf . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 16:18:21 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:18:21 -0800 Subject: image angle variable Message-ID: Hi, does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle within e-prime? There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an attribute in a list. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Feb 9 16:34:10 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:34:10 -0000 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no such thing. The easiest way is using any kind of image processing software to do this and using those - and I hope you are not using too many images and angles - in E-Prime. You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being heavily promoted by a colleague over here). I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the possibility of updating their .NET reliance - all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming (cf. Expression Blend). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 To: E-Prime Subject: image angle variable Hi, does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle within e-prime? There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an attribute in a list. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 9 16:54:32 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:54:32 -0500 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: <4b719271.5344f10a.7f7e.121bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: BTW, for anyone interested in exploring Presentation, I believe they offer a free full one-year license to any owner of E-Prime (MatLab, by contrast, has a very expensive and confusing price structure). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I belive this is also a breeze in MatLab when >you have suitable toolkits. Possibly >Presentation also, but I would have to look into that. > >You should also post this question to PST Web >Support at >http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp >and then post back here with their response. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >At 2/9/2010 11:34 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >>Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no >>such thing. The easiest way is using any kind >>of image processing software to do this and >>using those - and I hope you are not using too >>many images and angles - in E-Prime. >>You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being >>heavily promoted by a colleague over here). >> >>I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the >>possibility of updating their .NET reliance - >>all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming (cf. Expression Blend). >>Cheers, >>Mich >> >>Michiel Spapé >>Research Fellow >>Perception & Action group >>University of Nottingham >>School of Psychology >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias >>Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 >>To: E-Prime >>Subject: image angle variable >> >>Hi, >> >>does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle >>within e-prime? >>There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such >>option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an >>attribute in a list. >> >>Cheers, >>Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are >subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 9 16:50:22 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:50:22 -0500 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02BD8792@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I belive this is also a breeze in MatLab when you have suitable toolkits. Possibly Presentation also, but I would have to look into that. You should also post this question to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and then post back here with their response. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/9/2010 11:34 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no such >thing. The easiest way is using any kind of >image processing software to do this and using >those - and I hope you are not using too many images and angles - in E-Prime. >You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being >heavily promoted by a colleague over here). > >I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the >possibility of updating their .NET reliance - >all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming (cf. Expression Blend). >Cheers, >Mich > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias >Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 >To: E-Prime >Subject: image angle variable > >Hi, > >does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle >within e-prime? >There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such >option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an >attribute in a list. > >Cheers, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From rmutreja at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 17:14:05 2010 From: rmutreja at gmail.com (Rachna Mutreja) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:14:05 -0600 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: <4b71936b.5344f10a.7b87.137cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: We used Dehaene's script to create varying dot patterns. I'm not sure it can be applied to other stimuli, but you can try. http://www.unicog.org/docs/DocumentationDotsGeneration.doc On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:54 AM, David McFarlane wrote: > BTW, for anyone interested in exploring Presentation, I believe they offer > a free full one-year license to any owner of E-Prime (MatLab, by contrast, > has a very expensive and confusing price structure). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > I belive this is also a breeze in MatLab when you have suitable toolkits. >> Possibly Presentation also, but I would have to look into that. >> >> You should also post this question to PST Web Support at >> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and then post back >> here with their response. >> >> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >> At 2/9/2010 11:34 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >> >>> Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no such thing. The easiest way >>> is using any kind of image processing software to do this and using those - >>> and I hope you are not using too many images and angles - in E-Prime. >>> You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being heavily promoted by a >>> colleague over here). >>> >>> I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the possibility of updating >>> their .NET reliance - all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming >>> (cf. Expression Blend). >>> Cheers, >>> Mich >>> >>> Michiel Spapé >>> Research Fellow >>> Perception & Action group >>> University of Nottingham >>> School of Psychology >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On >>> Behalf Of Tobias >>> Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 >>> To: E-Prime >>> Subject: image angle variable >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle >>> within e-prime? >>> There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such >>> option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an >>> attribute in a list. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Tobias >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Project Coordinator Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience Laboratory Northwestern University 2240 Campus Drive Frances Searle Building, Room 2-330 Evanston, Illinois, 60208 Phone: 847.467.1936 r-mutreja at northwestern.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.fw at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 09:00:18 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:00:18 -0800 Subject: How random is random? Message-ID: Hi together, I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list are not that randomly picked. Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some extent on the number picked before. No real random... Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better way? To optimise the random seed? Thanks a lot, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From psycholika at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 11:16:45 2010 From: psycholika at gmail.com (Siatra Vasiliki) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:16:45 -0800 Subject: How random is random? In-Reply-To: <268763ba-6fd7-4103-b571-5f17b85bdbe2@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Well, when I want to use a randomized exp I prefer a more unsophisticated way. I use the RAND function in excel for my items (and this can be done also within subcategories) and then have the sequential choice for the selection order. But in this way you have the same random order for every subj. Vasiliqu.ee On Feb 11, 11:00 am, Tobias wrote: > Hi together, > > I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing > things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list > are not that randomly picked. > Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to > pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and > are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" > it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some > extent on the number picked before. No real random... > > Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better > way? To optimise the random seed? > > Thanks a lot, > Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Feb 11 14:08:19 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:08:19 -0000 Subject: How random is random? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you don't want to see your random looking unrandomly, it pays off to use randomisation without replacement... That is, just make an array with your angles and randomise that. That will 'make it look more random' (though it is obviously less so), and I suspect we, humans, just tend to be very unrandom about random in general (i.e. the number 1111111 looking much less random than 2148712, for instance). Other than that, I suggest what E-Basic Help will tell you: Syntax Randomize [number] Description Initializes the random number generator with a new seed. Comments If number is not specified, then the current value of the system clock is used. Example 'This example sets the randomize seed to a random number between '100 and 1000, then generates ten random numbers for the lottery. Const crlf = Chr$(13) + Chr$(10) Sub Main() Randomize 'Start with new random seed. For x = 1 To 10 y = Random(0,100) 'Generate numbers. message = message + Str(y) + crlf Next x MsgBox "Ten numbers for the lottery: " & crlf & message End Sub Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Siatra Vasiliki Sent: 11 February 2010 11:17 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: How random is random? Well, when I want to use a randomized exp I prefer a more unsophisticated way. I use the RAND function in excel for my items (and this can be done also within subcategories) and then have the sequential choice for the selection order. But in this way you have the same random order for every subj. Vasiliqu.ee On Feb 11, 11:00 am, Tobias wrote: > Hi together, > > I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing > things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list > are not that randomly picked. > Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to > pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and > are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" > it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some > extent on the number picked before. No real random... > > Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better > way? To optimise the random seed? > > Thanks a lot, > Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 14:28:23 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:28:23 -0800 Subject: a randomization question Message-ID: hi i have four blocks - two for one task (A) and two for another task (B) my question is - how do i arrnage that the trandomization order of the blokcs will be for 50% of my subjects ABAB and for the other 50% BABA? thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 11 15:02:19 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:02:19 -0500 Subject: How random is random? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tobias, You have asked a very deep and excellent question of a sort that no doubt has lead to several dissertations, so I will not answer it in a short online post. I will say that E-Prime just uses the standard pseudorandom number generator provided in Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications. (And AFAIK Excel uses the same PRNG (after all it relies on VBA, just like E-Prime), so the method used by Vasiliqu.ee should produce the same results as E-Prime.) To really approach this question, we must first understand what we mean by "random", then go on to study "random number generation" and "pseudorandom number generator". For an introduction you should look up these topics on Wikipedia. (While you are at it you might also look up "shuffling" and "Fisher–Yates shuffle", since we most often use E-Prime randomization to shuffle a List.) Then you could ask more pointed questions about randomization in E-Prime. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'" (www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html ). Siatra Vasiliki wrote: > Well, when I want to use a randomized exp I prefer a more > unsophisticated way. > I use the RAND function in excel for my items (and this can be done > also within subcategories) > and then have the sequential choice for the selection order. > But in this way you have the same random order for every subj. > > Vasiliqu.ee > > On Feb 11, 11:00 am, Tobias wrote: >> Hi together, >> >> I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing >> things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list >> are not that randomly picked. >> Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to >> pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and >> are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" >> it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some >> extent on the number picked before. No real random... >> >> Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better >> way? To optimise the random seed? >> >> Thanks a lot, >> Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Sat Feb 13 17:39:01 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:39:01 -0800 Subject: 576 images in one slide In-Reply-To: <4b50a2ea.5944f10a.2351.4357SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, so thanks to David's hint I could manage to compose a script displaying 576 images on one slide. As I use a loop function it is not much code, however the processing time is a problem. Although the slide is supposed to be displayed for only 200 ms, it's duration is about 700-800 ms. I thought about changing the images' colour depth and got bitmaps of 144 bytes instead of 1 KB each. Unfortunately that didn't change anything. I then used pre-release of 1000 ms and (just to test) an empty screen of 2000 ms just before each slide. Interestingly, the durationError was increased exactly be the pre-release time and onsetDelay was constant. This really is a riddle to me. First of all, the duration didn't seem to be prolonged (by appearance). Then, why is the duration not the desired 200 ms if there is enough time for pre-release? What makes E-Prime unable to already establish the slide? Maybe you have had similar problems and could help me out. Best, Tobias On 15 Jan., 18:16, David McFarlane wrote: > Tobias, > > >576times inserting sub-objects is indeed too tedious, especially as > >copy-paste doesn't work in e-prime for filename or positionin the > >object settings. > > >If I change the code, I can only do that for the e-run script file, > >right? If I do change something here I won't see that anywhere in a > >visual form like in the main program of e-prime, if I'm not wrong. > >This might make it hard to check if it is running as I want. > > No, no, no.  Sorry if that was not clear.  Look at the generated > script just to figure out how things get done.  Then go back to > E-Studio and do your editing & exploration in inline script there.  I > would make one simple demo program to generate working code that I > can examine, and then a separate demo program where I make my changes > (and mistakes!). > > That said, here is another hint.  You have not said whether you are > stuck with EP1 or EP2.  But if you have access to good old EP1, it is > much, much easier to explore script in E-Run there.  As you > recognize, what you change in E-Run will not propogate back to > E-Studio, but in this case you just use E-Run edits to explore & > learn, then apply (possibly by copy & paste) what you learn with > E-Run back to inline script in E-Studio. > > Hope that makes things clearer. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 20:43:10 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:43:10 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample Message-ID: Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 10:56:12 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:56:12 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <26267dce-3284-4561-93dd-d301dec8078d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey John, These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting random order for your list properties your problem would be solved... ? best, liw On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 15:56:38 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:56:38 -0800 Subject: 576 images in one slide In-Reply-To: <4fa5d244-382a-4d29-ab3e-a0e2360291b6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Okay, I finally managed to solve the problem. I seperated the code in two inlines, one to define the slide and one to call the slide. fixation cross now comes between those and there seems to be no error anymore. On 13 Feb., 18:39, Tobias wrote: > Hi, > > so thanks to David's hint I could manage to compose a script > displaying 576 images on one slide. As I use a loop function it is not > much code, however the processing time is a problem. > Although the slide is supposed to be displayed for only 200 ms, it's > duration is about 700-800 ms. I thought about changing the images' > colour depth and got bitmaps of 144 bytes instead of 1 KB each. > Unfortunately that didn't change anything. > I then used pre-release of 1000 ms and (just to test) an empty screen > of 2000 ms just before each slide. Interestingly, the durationError > was increased exactly be the pre-release time and onsetDelay was > constant. This really is a riddle to me. > > First of all, the duration didn't seem to be prolonged (by > appearance). Then, why is the duration not the desired 200 ms if there > is enough time for pre-release? What makes E-Prime unable to already > establish the slide? > > Maybe you have had similar problems and could help me out. > > Best, > Tobias > > On 15 Jan., 18:16, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Tobias, > > > >576times inserting sub-objects is indeed too tedious, especially as > > >copy-paste doesn't work in e-prime for filename or positionin the > > >object settings. > > > >If I change the code, I can only do that for the e-run script file, > > >right? If I do change something here I won't see that anywhere in a > > >visual form like in the main program of e-prime, if I'm not wrong. > > >This might make it hard to check if it is running as I want. > > > No, no, no.  Sorry if that was not clear.  Look at the generated > > script just to figure out how things get done.  Then go back to > > E-Studio and do your editing & exploration in inline script there.  I > > would make one simple demo program to generate working code that I > > can examine, and then a separate demo program where I make my changes > > (and mistakes!). > > > That said, here is another hint.  You have not said whether you are > > stuck with EP1 or EP2.  But if you have access to good old EP1, it is > > much, much easier to explore script in E-Run there.  As you > > recognize, what you change in E-Run will not propogate back to > > E-Studio, but in this case you just use E-Run edits to explore & > > learn, then apply (possibly by copy & paste) what you learn with > > E-Run back to inline script in E-Studio. > > > Hope that makes things clearer. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 16:01:06 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:01:06 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <558eddf9-c535-4a60-b1e8-91c5e416ca40@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: liw, thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have written is not enough information about my experiment please let me know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of what I am doing. Thanks, JCFIII On Feb 16, 4:56 am, liwenna wrote: > Hey John, > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > random order for your list properties your problem would be > solved... ? > > best, > > liw > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 16:47:12 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:47:12 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <56a8380d-ca0d-446e-bc31-06819f1933cc@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi John, you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can then call that list from another list using square brackets around the attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... Cheers, Tobias On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > liw, > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > what I am doing. > > Thanks, > JCFIII > > On Feb 16, 4:56 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey John, > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > solved... ? > > > best, > > > liw > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 20:23:14 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:23:14 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tobias, Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. Thanks, JCFIII On Feb 16, 10:47 am, Tobias wrote: > Hi John, > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > Cheers, > Tobias > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > liw, > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > what I am doing. > > > Thanks, > > JCFIII > > > On Feb 16, 4:56 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey John, > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > solved... ? > > > > best, > > > > liw > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From kellerj at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 21:25:14 2010 From: kellerj at gmail.com (Jen Keller) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:25:14 -0800 Subject: JPEG image problem: Slice of JPEG image remains on subsequent screen Message-ID: Hello, I am having a problem with the JPEG images in my Eprime experiment. Our study format includes a screen which presents 2 target photos, the target photos then disappear and are replaced by a probe on the next screen (in our study an x). Both photos should be completely absent from the probe screen, however a slice of one of the picture remains on either the left of right side of the screen (whichever side the probe isn't on). Does anyone know why a portion of the picture is carrying over to the next screen, and how can we eliminate it? Additionally, we know how to set the pixel size for the jpeg photos, and we are wondering if there is a way to set the pixels for the distance between the two pictures. Thanks much. -Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 22:54:03 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:54:03 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <48f03f2f-d68c-46d2-943b-5e605c3483c7@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey John! I think I see your problem now... you want to have groups of nine words appearing in nine different locations and after each location is used once... a new run of nine words on each location etc. while in each group of 9 words your probeword needs to be used once and the other 8 words need to be randomly drawn from the remaining 23 words? Is that correct? *thinkthinkthink* how about... make a list with 9 levels... and an attribute called 'stimword' or whatever name you are using right now. This is the attribute that the textobject or slide will call out to for it's word. Fill out your probeword in one of the levels of 'stimword' and make the other 8 levels call out to a second attribute for instance called distractor by filling out [distractor] as the value of 'stimword'. Into this 9-level list nest a list called for instance 'distractorlist' that contains the attribute 'distractor' and has 23 levels holding the distractorwords. Randomise both lists and set the first list to be run a number of times (as many runs of 9 words as you need). Now... e-prime will run the 9-level (= 9 trials) list a set number of times always using the probeword in 1 out of 9 trials and randomingly pick words from the remaining 23 words on the remaining 8 trials. I would actually then suggest adding a 24th word to make 3x8=24+3 = 27 = 3 runs of 9 words possible... yet the very fact that your 23 words don't seem to 'match up' with what I now think you need done makes me think that I might have not the right idea of what you need after all.... Lastly: I don't know how you implemented the randompositioning at the moment but if the above suggstion is what you need after all, I suggest putting that attribute in yet anoter list that is also nested into the 9-level triallist together with the distractorlist (separate listnames by comma's in the attribute 'nested'). Best, liw On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > Tobias, > Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list > containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list > calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot > figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time > while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. > > Thanks, > JCFIII > > On Feb 16, 10:47 am, Tobias wrote: > > > Hi John, > > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > > Cheers, > > Tobias > > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > liw, > > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > > what I am doing. > > > > Thanks, > > > JCFIII > > > > On Feb 16, 4:56 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Hey John, > > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > > solved... ? > > > > > best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 23:02:30 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:02:30 -0800 Subject: JPEG image problem: Slice of JPEG image remains on subsequent screen In-Reply-To: <4b34b886-4e76-4805-914d-8d344c9de4b1@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Jen, Somehow your display screen is not completely cleard out by the probe screen. Check whether your probedisplay is completely 'opaque' (see for instance the backgroundcolour setting on 'default' (the 'background of your slide'). Is it possible that you have two imageobjects for the probe (left and right) and only one filled out on every trial? And that thus the location on the other imageobject is not 'filled with something' and hence showing part of the previous slide?. There is also this clearafter function that you could toggel to yes on the properties on the stimulusslide. As for the pixel distance... I guess you'll have to do the math by hand... if you set x of the rightsided stimuluspicture to say.... 960 pixels and the left sided stimuluspicture to 320 then the midlines of the pictures will be 640 pixels apart.... if your images are for instance... 400 pixels wide then that means that the distance between the inner edges is 240 pixels (as there is 1/2 x 400 = 200 pixels on both innersides of the pictures measured from the midline of the pictures which are located at the values of x). Hope this helps somewhat.... AW On Feb 16, 10:25 pm, Jen Keller wrote: > Hello, > > I am having a problem with the JPEG images in my Eprime experiment. > Our study format includes a screen which presents 2 target photos, the > target photos then disappear and are replaced by a probe on the next > screen (in our study an x). Both photos should be completely absent > from the probe screen, however a slice of one of the picture remains > on either the left of right side of the screen (whichever side the > probe isn't on). Does anyone know why a portion of the picture is > carrying over to the next screen, and how can we eliminate it? > > Additionally, we know how to set the pixel size for the jpeg photos, > and we are wondering if there is a way to set the pixels for the > distance between the two pictures. > > Thanks much. > > -Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 05:14:38 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:14:38 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <495f2240-345a-4ae3-af17-04cdd2793921@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: liw, I think you may have solved my problem, and I praise you for it. If this works it was my last portion of the experiment I've been writing will be done! I may be responding in childish excitement but I am quite ecstatic. I've been working on this for quite sometime and I believe that you may have just explained how to get past my last road block. Gratefully, JCFIII On Feb 16, 4:54 pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey John! > > I think I see your problem now... you want to have groups of nine > words appearing in nine different locations and after each location is > used once...  a new run of nine words on each location etc. while in > each group of 9 words your probeword needs to be used once and the > other 8 words need to be randomly drawn from the remaining 23 words? > > Is that correct? > > *thinkthinkthink* > how about... make a list with 9 levels... and an attribute called > 'stimword' or whatever name you are using right now. This is the > attribute that the textobject or slide will call out to for it's word. > Fill out your probeword in one of the levels of 'stimword' and make > the other 8 levels call out to a second attribute for instance called > distractor by filling out [distractor] as the value of 'stimword'. > Into this 9-level list nest a list called for instance > 'distractorlist' that contains the attribute 'distractor' and has 23 > levels holding the distractorwords. Randomise both lists and set the > first list to be run a number of times (as many runs of 9 words as you > need). Now... e-prime will run the 9-level (= 9 trials) list a set > number of times always using the probeword in 1 out of 9 trials and > randomingly pick words from the remaining 23 words on the remaining 8 > trials. I would actually then suggest adding a 24th word to make > 3x8=24+3 = 27 = 3 runs of 9 words possible... yet the very fact that > your 23 words don't seem to 'match up' with what I now think you need > done makes me think that I might have not the right idea of what you > need after all....   Lastly: I don't know how you implemented the > randompositioning at the moment but if the above suggstion is what you > need after all, I suggest putting that attribute in yet anoter list > that is also nested into the 9-level triallist together with the > distractorlist (separate listnames by comma's in the attribute > 'nested'). > > Best, > > liw > > On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > Tobias, > > Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list > > containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list > > calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot > > figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time > > while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. > > > Thanks, > > JCFIII > > > On Feb 16, 10:47 am, Tobias wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > > > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > > > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > > > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > > > Cheers, > > > Tobias > > > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > liw, > > > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > > > what I am doing. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > JCFIII > > > > > On Feb 16, 4:56 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > Hey John, > > > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > > > solved... ? > > > > > > best, > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 11:41:36 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:41:36 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <0deb73ef-9b09-4013-bac8-093809ccb12c@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: You're welcome ^.^ Let me know if something still gets in your way ;) Best, liw On Feb 17, 6:14 am, John Fletcher wrote: > liw, > I think you may have solved my problem, and I praise you for it. If > this works it was my last portion of the experiment I've been writing > will be done! I may be responding in childish excitement but I am > quite ecstatic. I've been working on this for quite sometime and I > believe that you may have just explained how to get past my last road > block. > > Gratefully, > JCFIII > > On Feb 16, 4:54 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey John! > > > I think I see your problem now... you want to have groups of nine > > words appearing in nine different locations and after each location is > > used once...  a new run of nine words on each location etc. while in > > each group of 9 words your probeword needs to be used once and the > > other 8 words need to be randomly drawn from the remaining 23 words? > > > Is that correct? > > > *thinkthinkthink* > > how about... make a list with 9 levels... and an attribute called > > 'stimword' or whatever name you are using right now. This is the > > attribute that the textobject or slide will call out to for it's word. > > Fill out your probeword in one of the levels of 'stimword' and make > > the other 8 levels call out to a second attribute for instance called > > distractor by filling out [distractor] as the value of 'stimword'. > > Into this 9-level list nest a list called for instance > > 'distractorlist' that contains the attribute 'distractor' and has 23 > > levels holding the distractorwords. Randomise both lists and set the > > first list to be run a number of times (as many runs of 9 words as you > > need). Now... e-prime will run the 9-level (= 9 trials) list a set > > number of times always using the probeword in 1 out of 9 trials and > > randomingly pick words from the remaining 23 words on the remaining 8 > > trials. I would actually then suggest adding a 24th word to make > > 3x8=24+3 = 27 = 3 runs of 9 words possible... yet the very fact that > > your 23 words don't seem to 'match up' with what I now think you need > > done makes me think that I might have not the right idea of what you > > need after all....   Lastly: I don't know how you implemented the > > randompositioning at the moment but if the above suggstion is what you > > need after all, I suggest putting that attribute in yet anoter list > > that is also nested into the 9-level triallist together with the > > distractorlist (separate listnames by comma's in the attribute > > 'nested'). > > > Best, > > > liw > > > On Feb 16, 9:23 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > Tobias, > > > Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list > > > containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list > > > calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot > > > figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time > > > while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. > > > > Thanks, > > > JCFIII > > > > On Feb 16, 10:47 am, Tobias wrote: > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > > > > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > > > > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > > > > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tobias > > > > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > liw, > > > > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > > > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > > > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > > > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > > > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > > > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > > > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > > > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > > > > what I am doing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > JCFIII > > > > > > On Feb 16, 4:56 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > Hey John, > > > > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > > > > solved... ? > > > > > > > best, > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Feb 17 17:53:07 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:53:07 -0500 Subject: Response devices In-Reply-To: <7e13effa-d50c-407e-9f05-63cd286dab8b@i39g2000yqm.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: At 2/16/2010 06:07 PM Tuesday, Carlos wrote: >David, > >Anyways, my colleague (who is the one mainly in charge of trying to >configure our response pads) and I have looked at this and tried to >implement a few things. So far we haven't had any luck. We don't have >an SRBox from E-Prime so we can't really route anything through there >or even try to figure out in more detail how it works. You seemed to >have provided that though in your e-mail so I don't think is an issue >at this point. It just seems that E-Prime does not want to correctly >interpret what we are sending to it. > >I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind. > >1) Should we be setting the SRBOX Object/Device in E-Prime to be >emulating the keyboard? That is entirely up to you, it makes no difference to how E-Prime gets the input from the SRBox. It may simplify the testing of your input masks -- you can use a Keyboard mask (using the same values as your SRBox will use) to test your program without the SRBox, then when you add the SRBox you have everything ready. >2) What type of information should we be having the breadbox send out? >Should this be in hex? We have verified that the breadbox is sending >out the information we configure it so send, but E-Prime doesn't seem >to happy with whatever type of output we send to it. I thought I covered that in my earlier post. >3) You said the E-Prime SRBOX sends out &H7F when it powers on. Is >this something that E-Prime has to detect? Not as far as I know, I simply recorded an observation that I made (hence I enclosed that in parentheses). >4) Does the SRBox send a steady stream of bytes to E-Prime at the >speed of 800 bytes per second even if no button is pressed? Yes. >5) If no button is pressed, what will the SRbox send to E-Prime? It sends a steady stream of &H00 bytes. >In your reply you said: In your reply you mentioned:Each bit encodes >the state of one button, so, e.g., button 1 sends &H01, button 2 &H02, >button 3 &H04, etc.; and buttons 1 & 3 simultaneously send &H05, etc. >You may then decode the byte with If...Then, or masking unwanted bits >with a bitwise And > >Would that be the answer to the last two questions? Yes, indeed. >6) If, for example, button 1 is pressed, does the SRBox send >"00000001" to E-Prime immediately? Is there any debounce processing >needed? By any chance do you know how they achieve the "0 millisecond >debounce period" as declared in their website? It does send the "00000001" (or &H01, or 0x01, which I find easier to read). I do not recall any debounce circuity in the SRBox. However, since it sends a new datum only once every 1/800 s = 1.25 ms, the buttons have plenty of time to debounce between each datum. Hope that helps, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From phoenix345 at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 14:25:43 2010 From: phoenix345 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:25:43 -0800 Subject: assessment designer needed Message-ID: Hi, My name is Joshua and I am searching for a consultant to design one, perhaps two, eprime experiments for a grant-funded study I coordinate. Specifically, I need customized "affective" versions of of the Stroop test and the Wisconsin Card Sorting Task that are suitable for subjects aged 8-16 years old (esp. reading grade level). Any information connecting me with someone with the specialized know-how to design such tests would be much appreciated. You may contact me at phoenix345 at gmail.com. JG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From fifilabouche at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 17:01:35 2010 From: fifilabouche at gmail.com (aoifemcloughlin) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:01:35 -0800 Subject: Data order in output Message-ID: Hi all, I've searched to see if this was asked before but couldn't find anything. I may not be explaining myself well enough though in the search. I hope this makes sense... In my output from E-prime there are lots of columns of course. One of which is called triallist. This denotes the order in which each trial was presented to the participant. Because I had my trials set on random the trial list order is messed up (3,9,10,1,4 etc!). What I was wondering was is it possible to change the order that the trial list is presented in in the output so that it is no longer shown differently for each participant. Any help would be appreciated. I can't be the first to have encountered this. Cheers :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Fri Feb 19 17:08:38 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:08:38 +0000 Subject: Data order in output In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, If I understand correctly, I think your column "triallist" is actually a numeric identifier of each item in that List (the first row of the List is triallist 1, etc.), but the order of which is randomized for each subject. The actual order of presentation for a given subject would appear in a column called "triallist.Sample". -dv aoifemcloughlin wrote: > Hi all, > > I've searched to see if this was asked before but couldn't find > anything. I may not be explaining myself well enough though in the > search. > > I hope this makes sense... In my output from E-prime there are lots of > columns of course. One of which is called triallist. This denotes the > order in which each trial was presented to the participant. Because I > had my trials set on random the trial list order is messed up > (3,9,10,1,4 etc!). What I was wondering was is it possible to change > the order that the trial list is presented in in the output so that it > is no longer shown differently for each participant. > > -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 19 17:56:19 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:56:19 -0500 Subject: Data order in output In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am glad that you searched the Group before posting. Also, you can always ask PST Web Support at support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp (and then report back here with their response), they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. But here's my take. You could do this with some clever use of the Analyze tool in E-DataAid. (And much more besides -- as I have said before, E-DataAid deserves much more respect than most labs give it.) So first I would have you study the E-DataAid chapters in both the User's Guide and the Reference Guide that came with E-Prime, and then go on to explore the possiblities of the Analyze tool. Otherwise, of course, you could always do what most labs do and just export the data to Excel and handle it all there (e.g., sort it on the TrialList column, and perhaps automating more data preparation using custom Excel macros). But E-DataAid Analyze makes data preparation so much easier, well worth learning that first. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I've searched to see if this was asked before but couldn't find >anything. I may not be explaining myself well enough though in the >search. > >I hope this makes sense... In my output from E-prime there are lots of >columns of course. One of which is called triallist. This denotes the >order in which each trial was presented to the participant. Because I >had my trials set on random the trial list order is messed up >(3,9,10,1,4 etc!). What I was wondering was is it possible to change >the order that the trial list is presented in in the output so that it >is no longer shown differently for each participant. > >Any help would be appreciated. I can't be the first to have >encountered this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 07:39:11 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:39:11 -0800 Subject: Uploading image Message-ID: Hi, I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best solution. So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in any way. Regards Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 09:13:16 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:13:16 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <722e54a9-69cc-493d-914a-a355d5c56c83@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Gilis, The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in research, make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the displaysize e-prime uses.... Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels display for instance. Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your screen... If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual size of your display. I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your image now. I hope it will be fixed this way! Best of luck, liw On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > Hi, > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > solution. > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > any way. > > Regards > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 11:04:43 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:04:43 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liw, thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the meanwhile just wanted to add that the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. Best Wishes GiliS On 22 פברואר, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > Hey Gilis, > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > research,  make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > display for instance. > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > screen...  If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > size of your display. > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > image now. > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > Best of luck, > > liw > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > solution. > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > any way. > > > Regards > > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 11:27:35 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:27:35 -0000 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Just to add to this excellent set of solutions by liw, *yes*, it is possible to use Canvas to load your image to the screen directly! Have a look at Canvas.LoadImage (eBasic help). This will also help you, if you want to do some later canvas work, in understanding offscreencanvas buffering and such, so it's not entirely useless. That said, it is not enormously useful, unless you have some reason to use canvas in the first place (e.g. you need to draw all kinds of things to the screen ad hoc), as A: it's an awful lot of script, and B: you can't do more than with slides or even imageObjects. Certainly, E-Prime does not magically make your image of size 800 x 600 fit on a screen that is set in 640 x 480 without cropping the image (which seems exactly what you want?). I would like to stress the fact that cropping in E-Prime works sub-optimally (aliasing problems tend to cause nasty pixel artefacts) in any way and since any decent experimenter wants perfect stimulus material, I'm sure you want to avoid this. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of liwenna Sent: 22 February 2010 09:13 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Uploading image Hey Gilis, The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in research, make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the displaysize e-prime uses.... Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels display for instance. Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your screen... If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual size of your display. I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your image now. I hope it will be fixed this way! Best of luck, liw On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > Hi, > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > solution. > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > any way. > > Regards > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 12:11:09 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:11:09 -0000 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <7f1efcb1-7ac0-4493-8411-9c9f39eb7bfe@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Just to add a little bit more to my previous mail: When you say: 'although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well', it seems you fail to see what exactly digital images are. Images, in particular bitmap images, do not have a size *other than pixel-size*. As such, an image of 100 x 100 pixels will inevitably take up 100/1024 x 100/768 space on your monitor, should your monitor be set to 1024 x 768, unless you stretch the image over a different number of pixels (which usually leads to quality degrading results). Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 11:05 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Uploading image Hi Liw, thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the meanwhile just wanted to add that the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. Best Wishes GiliS On 22 פברואר, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > Hey Gilis, > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > research,  make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > display for instance. > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > screen...  If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > size of your display. > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > image now. > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > Best of luck, > > liw > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > solution. > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > any way. > > > Regards > > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 12:11:54 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:11:54 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, Just wanted to thank you again-you are great! your advices saved me a lot of work in the very wrong directions... Warm regards Gilis On 22 פברואר, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > Hey Gilis, > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > research,  make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > display for instance. > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > screen...  If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > size of your display. > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > image now. > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > Best of luck, > > liw > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > solution. > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > any way. > > > Regards > > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 12:23:21 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:23:21 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECBBF@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thank you Michiel as well, I stand corrected. I know how silly it sounded, but usually there is some correlation between the image physical diamensions, size on disk and its pixel -size. Thanks alot for your advices in regard to the use in in canvs. Gilis On 22 פברואר, 14:11, Michiel Spape wrote: > Just to add a little bit more to my previous mail: > When you say: 'although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well', it seems you fail to see what exactly digital images are. Images, in particular bitmap images, do not have a size *other than pixel-size*. As such, an image of 100 x 100 pixels will inevitably take up 100/1024 x 100/768 space on your monitor, should your monitor be set to 1024 x 768, unless you stretch the image over a different number of pixels (which usually leads to quality degrading results). > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 11:05 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: Uploading image > > Hi Liw, > thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the > meanwhile just wanted to add that > the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display > (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. > Best Wishes > GiliS > > On 22 פברואר, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > > Hey Gilis, > > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > > research,  make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > > display for instance. > > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > > screen...  If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > > size of your display. > > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > > image now. > > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > > Best of luck, > > > liw > > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > > solution. > > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > > any way. > > > > Regards > > > Gili > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 13:52:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:52:25 -0500 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <29473adf-598a-418c-91f7-1f3876f8de56@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Gili, Hmm, I don't think anyone mentioned the Stretch property of Image objects. Setting Stretch to "Yes" will stretch or shrink images of any pixel dimensions to exactly fit the Image frame in E-Prime (I use this feature myself to animate some displays). But you should still pay attention to what others have said about first trying to get the dimensions of your images to better match your screen dimensions. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > Thank you Michiel as well, > I stand corrected. I know how silly it sounded, but usually there is > some correlation between the image physical diamensions, size on disk > and its pixel -size. > Thanks alot for your advices in regard to the use in in canvs. > Gilis > > On 22 פברואר, 14:11, Michiel Spape > wrote: >> Just to add a little bit more to my previous mail: >> When you say: 'although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well', it seems you fail to see what exactly digital images are. Images, in particular bitmap images, do not have a size *other than pixel-size*. As such, an image of 100 x 100 pixels will inevitably take up 100/1024 x 100/768 space on your monitor, should your monitor be set to 1024 x 768, unless you stretch the image over a different number of pixels (which usually leads to quality degrading results). >> Best, >> Mich >> >> Michiel Spapé >> Research Fellow >> Perception & Action group >> University of Nottingham >> School of Psychology >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis >> Sent: 22 February 2010 11:05 >> To: E-Prime >> Subject: Re: Uploading image >> >> Hi Liw, >> thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the >> meanwhile just wanted to add that >> the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display >> (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. >> Best Wishes >> GiliS >> >> On 22 פברואר, 11:13, liwenna wrote: >>> Hey Gilis, >>> The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your >>> image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think >>> the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in >>> research, make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I >>> am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your >>> image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the >>> displaysize e-prime uses.... >>> Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the >>> current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels >>> display for instance. >>> Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in >>> pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over >>> 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer >>> and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your >>> screen... If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply >>> should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... >>> Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): >>> when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's >>> own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 >>> pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't >>> fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your >>> experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the >>> experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), >>> choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual >>> size of your display. >>> I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in >>> your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at >>> the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y >>> coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your >>> image now. >>> I hope it will be fixed this way! >>> Best of luck, >>> liw >>> On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only >>>> recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which >>>> participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to >>>> the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli >>>> is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I >>>> always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the >>>> edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the >>>> slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. >>>> So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas >>>> object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it >>>> to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were >>>> or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best >>>> solution. >>>> So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in >>>> any way. >>>> Regards >>>> Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 14:44:09 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:44:09 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object Message-ID: Hi to all again, Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I hope: I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, left or right side of the display. I know that it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, center and right? Thanks, Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 15:59:16 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:59:16 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <34c591ef-bff8-4d97-ad94-cd30428962d7@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Gilis, I think this should work: Have an attribute in the list, let's say "posX". Refer to the x values of the bitmaps with [posX]. If I understood you correctly, the y value is not to be changed. If yes, this can also be done without problems. Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 This will set posX randomly to 200, 400 or 600 and of course you can change these values. However, if you really want to make sure that each subject had each condition equally often, you should go for setting this in the list. This is imho the more elegant way ;) Best, Tobias On 22 Feb., 15:44, gilis wrote: > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > Thanks, > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 15:59:39 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:59:39 -0800 Subject: critical timing (working with prerelease and event timing) Message-ID: Hello forum, I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the forum might have some ideas. I was sent an e-prime task, and I will be using it in conjunction with a physiological data collection system. I have figured out how to send TTL pulses from e-prime to the physio system, and have the physio data collection starting with a pulse from each block of the task. However, there is no way to offset the physio data collection with a pulse, so the offset of the physio data collection is specified by a user- defined duration. The problem I am running into is that each block of my task does not end at the same time each time I run it. After reading the critical timing chapter of the e-prime manual, I understand now why this is the case (at least in part). However, I am not sure how to fix this problem for my particular task. Presently there is no prerelease specified and all objects are set to event timing mode; I have questions about both of these options as they relate to this specific task: Prerelease: The task consists of several blocks, and within each block is a repeating sequence of events; a stimulus is shown for 3 seconds, the participant responds during that interval and is given on screen feedback as an overlay on the stimulus screen (the latency of the feedback presentation is contingent upon participants' response; regardless of participants' response the stimulus is displayed for 3 seconds), then there is a 500ms blank screen. After reading the critical timing chapter, I got the impression that one should not use prerelease on sequences including feedback. I get the sense that I may be able to have prerelease on some objects but not others, but it is very important that the data logging and feedback are correct for the task, so I am reluctant to use prerelease on anything. Thoughts? Event timing: Although I understand the difference between cumulative and event timing, I am still having a hard time grasping the implications of using each for my experiment; in particular I am not sure how each choice would impact data analysis. E-prime will be sending pulses to the physio machine that onset and offset with the onset and offset of each stimulus. I want to be able to look at physiological response to the stimuli (so it's an "event-related" design). Given my question, I'm not sure about the relative pros and cons of event and cumulative timing and what impact that decision will have on my attempts to analyze the data. I am reluctant to change it to cumulative timing because the task was made with "event timing" set. Again, it seems like here too it might be best to use event timing on certain objects and cumulative timing on others, but I'm not sure what impact this would actually have on the experiment or which objects to use what timing on. Thank you so much for your help Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:01:32 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:01:32 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer Message-ID: Hello forum, I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the forum might have some ideas. I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the "Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). I previously had the task running with an inline script following the stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 End If At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without using inline code. As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly timed with. Thanks, Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 16:13:09 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:13:09 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <34c591ef-bff8-4d97-ad94-cd30428962d7@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Gilis, What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 To: E-Prime Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object Hi to all again, Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I hope: I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, left or right side of the display. I know that it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, center and right? Thanks, Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:17:34 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:17:34 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <30bf1aba-2ff1-434e-95f0-361349fce2ab@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. here's what i would do: put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). the script in the inline would be something like this: Do Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the LetterStimulus object. how's that? ben On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim wrote: > Hello forum, > > I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > forum might have some ideas. > > I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > "Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > End If > > At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > using inline code. > > As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > timed with. > > Thanks, > Jim > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 16:35:02 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:35:02 -0500 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD2C@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Gilis, As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is pretty much the "E-Prime way". However, if you mean to combinatorically mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other attributes, then you might look into nested Lists. In that case, first work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas. And of course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > Cheers, > Mich > > > > > > > > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > > Thanks, > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:51:28 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:51:28 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <4B82B236.5040605@msu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks David, BTW, just tried to open the link and it seem to be a dead one-can you post it again please? Best Wishes Gilis On 22 פברואר, 18:35, David McFarlane wrote: > Gilis, > > As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is > pretty much the "E-Prime way".  However, if you mean to combinatorically > mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other > attributes, then you might look into nested Lists.  In that case, first > work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide > that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas.  And of > course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > Michiel Spape wrote: > > Hi Gilis, > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spap > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:53:26 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:53:26 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So simple, so true...How couldn't I see that ;) Thanks a lot! Gilis On 22 פברואר, 17:59, Tobias wrote: > Hi Gilis, > > I think this should work: Have an attribute in the list, let's say > "posX". Refer to the x values of the bitmaps with [posX]. If I > understood you correctly, the y value is not to be changed. If yes, > this can also be done without problems. > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > dim x as integer > x = random(1,3) > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 > > This will set posX randomly to 200, 400 or 600 and of course you can > change these values. > However, if you really want to make sure that each subject had each > condition equally often, you should go for setting this in the list. > This is imho the more elegant way ;) > > Best, > Tobias > > On 22 Feb., 15:44, gilis wrote: > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 17:01:08 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:01:08 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <49730d43-0390-4dc6-bc89-e8fe03d03b6c@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Seems fine here: http://www.cognitology.eu/about_me.htm below everything else. PDF takes some time to load, so I'd suggest right-clicking and using "save link as". One of these days, I should really try to update things (both book and website). I guess PST has infected me! Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 16:51 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object Thanks David, BTW, just tried to open the link and it seem to be a dead one-can you post it again please? Best Wishes Gilis On 22 פברואר, 18:35, David McFarlane wrote: > Gilis, > > As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is > pretty much the "E-Prime way".  However, if you mean to combinatorically > mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other > attributes, then you might look into nested Lists.  In that case, first > work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide > that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas.  And of > course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > Michiel Spape wrote: > > Hi Gilis, > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spap > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 17:19:27 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:19:27 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <52f0e9d7-e431-4637-88e0-989eff0a5651@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Gilis, Yes, I noticed it sounded very matlabby :) Matlab is awesome in terms of arrays, but I'm happy enough that E-Prime at least has this randomiseArray, er randomizeArray, function. Here's how you can do about the same: Dim locs() as integer Dim I as integer For i = 1 to 640 Locs(i) = i Next i RandomizeArray Locs 'this would be Locs = RandomizeArray(Locs) in Matlab style ...or something of that sort to obtain 640 values which you can later insert in your trial (e.g. if a slide has an image with x value referencing [myX] and you have a trial-counter called trialnum, then something like c.SetAttrib "myX", Locs(trialnum) Personally, I get heavily frustrated by the usage of (E-)Basic ()s which seems rather arbitrary, their lack of []s to reference arrays as in C, and can't quite wrap my mind around how all that is yet different in Matlab (including the added {}s)! Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 16:50 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object Hi Mich, Sure it make a little sense, it was just an hypothetical example ;) - meaning that I was trying to find a way to randomize three dichotomic values (e.g., a , c and d without the sequence between them). Somehow "RandomizeArray" was associatively connected in my mind with similar suffix functions from Matlab -I was sure it can be done in Eprime as well...For the present experiment I will use the list, but anyway wanted to know the alternatives. Thank you very much for the link, I hope to use it intensively. Cheers Gilis On 22 פברואר, 18:13, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > Thanks, > Gilis > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:50:13 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:50:13 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD2C@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Sure it make a little sense, it was just an hypothetical example ;) - meaning that I was trying to find a way to randomize three dichotomic values (e.g., a , c and d without the sequence between them). Somehow "RandomizeArray" was associatively connected in my mind with similar suffix functions from Matlab -I was sure it can be done in Eprime as well...For the present experiment I will use the list, but anyway wanted to know the alternatives. Thank you very much for the link, I hope to use it intensively. Cheers Gilis On 22 פברואר, 18:13, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > Thanks, > Gilis > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 18:29:46 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:29:46 -0500 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <081efad2-7159-410d-aeb2-b4811eb9f758@g11g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > > > dim x as integer > > x = random(1,3) > > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 Just can't let this sit (even though Mich & I disagree on this point of programming style :) ), so here is the same code in two more different styles: dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 elseif x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 elseif x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 end if or dim x as integer select case random(1,3) case 1 c.setattrib "posX", 200 case 2 c.setattrib "posX", 400 case 3 c.setattrib "posX", 600 end select -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 19:28:09 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:28:09 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD78@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Well, there is at the very least two things can be done in PST but not in E-prime 1. Gabor patch 2. Controling the luminance level for each stimuli within the program itself. That's at least what I learn in person when I worked on my thesis (transient attention)..Great list of publications you have-I liked! Best Gilis On 22 פברואר, 19:01, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Seems fine here:http://www.cognitology.eu/about_me.htmbelow everything else. PDF takes some time to load, so I'd suggest right-clicking and using "save link as". > > One of these days, I should really try to update things (both book and website). I guess PST has infected me! > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:51 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Thanks David, > BTW, just tried to open the link and it seem to be a dead one-can you > post it again please? > Best Wishes > Gilis > > On 22 פברואר, 18:35, David McFarlane wrote: > > Gilis, > > > As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is > > pretty much the "E-Prime way".  However, if you mean to combinatorically > > mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other > > attributes, then you might look into nested Lists.  In that case, first > > work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide > > that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas.  And of > > course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > Michiel Spape wrote: > > > Hi Gilis, > > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > > Cheers, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > > To: E-Prime > > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > > Hi to all again, > > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > > hope: > > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > > left or right side > > > of the display. > > > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > > center and right? > > > > Thanks, > > > Gilis > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 19:19:23 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:19:23 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <4b82cd4d.5344f10a.709f.1b3cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Select Case is my favorite condition, for some kinky reason :) Great forum you build here! Gilis On 22 פברואר, 20:29, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > > > dim x as integer > > > x = random(1,3) > > > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > > > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > > > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 > > Just can't let this sit (even though Mich & I disagree on this point > of programming style :) ), so here is the same code in two more > different styles: > > dim x as integer > x = random(1,3) > if x = 1 then >      c.setattrib "posX", 200 > elseif x = 2 then >      c.setattrib "posX", 400 > elseif x = 3 then >      c.setattrib "posX", 600 > end if > > or > > dim x as integer > select case random(1,3) >    case 1 >      c.setattrib "posX", 200 >    case 2 >      c.setattrib "posX", 400 >    case 3 >      c.setattrib "posX", 600 > end select > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 19:43:33 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:43:33 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD8D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I meant PTB and not PST...as I told, very "green" in here..;) On 22 פברואר, 19:19, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > Yes, I noticed it sounded very matlabby :) Matlab is awesome in terms of arrays, but I'm happy enough that E-Prime at least has this randomiseArray, er randomizeArray, function. Here's how you can do about the same: > Dim locs() as integer > Dim I as integer > > For i = 1 to 640 >         Locs(i) = i > Next i > > RandomizeArray Locs     'this would be Locs = RandomizeArray(Locs) in Matlab style > > ...or something of that sort to obtain 640 values which you can later insert in your trial (e.g. if a slide has an image with x value referencing [myX] and you have a trial-counter called trialnum, then something like c.SetAttrib "myX", Locs(trialnum) > > Personally, I get heavily frustrated by the usage of (E-)Basic ()s which seems rather arbitrary, their lack of []s to reference arrays as in C, and can't quite wrap my mind around how all that is yet different in Matlab (including the added {}s)! > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:50 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi Mich, > > Sure it make a little sense, it was just an hypothetical example ;) - > meaning that I was trying to find a way to randomize three dichotomic > values (e.g., a , c and d without the sequence between them). > Somehow   "RandomizeArray"  was associatively connected in my mind > with similar suffix functions from Matlab -I was sure it can be done > in Eprime as well...For the present experiment I will use the list, > but anyway wanted to know the alternatives. Thank you very much for > the link, I hope to use it  intensively. > Cheers > Gilis > > On 22 פברואר, 18:13, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Hi Gilis, > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spapé > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that  it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 22:52:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:52:25 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51002220817r7efe1ceci370851fcb912a0d2@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: Jim, First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct response targets". By way of background, if you search this Group using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed several approaches to that. Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. It should just work for you. Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand the intricacies of PreRelease. Sadly, PST does not do a very good job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill effects). For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final object to score the .ACC if needed. Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. Then I just lay down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! Yes, I know that is excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems in several contexts. If it were up to me I would just make Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. >here's what i would do: > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). >the script in the inline would be something like this: >Do >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the >LetterStimulus object. > >how's that? > >ben > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim ><jjprisciandaro at gmail.com> wrote: >Hello forum, > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the >forum might have some ideas. > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 >End If > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without >using inline code. > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly >timed with. > >Thanks, >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 22:54:22 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:54:22 -0500 Subject: critical timing (working with prerelease and event timing) In-Reply-To: <0afbd710-25ed-4e45-b903-75c0ee583919@u20g2000yqu.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, Please see my comments in your thread, "scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer". (OK, now I'm late for my yoga class, and I really need the exercise.) -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hello forum, > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the >forum might have some ideas. > >I was sent an e-prime task, and I will be using it in conjunction with >a physiological data collection system. I have figured out how to send >TTL pulses from e-prime to the physio system, and have the physio data >collection starting with a pulse from each block of the task. However, >there is no way to offset the physio data collection with a pulse, so >the offset of the physio data collection is specified by a user- >defined duration. > >The problem I am running into is that each block of my task does not >end at the same time each time I run it. After reading the critical >timing chapter of the e-prime manual, I understand now why this is the >case (at least in part). However, I am not sure how to fix this >problem for my particular task. Presently there is no prerelease >specified and all objects are set to event timing mode; I have >questions about both of these options as they relate to this specific >task: > >Prerelease: The task consists of several blocks, and within each block >is a repeating sequence of events; a stimulus is shown for 3 seconds, >the participant responds during that interval and is given on screen >feedback as an overlay on the stimulus screen (the latency of the >feedback presentation is contingent upon participants' response; >regardless of participants' response the stimulus is displayed for 3 >seconds), then there is a 500ms blank screen. After reading the >critical timing chapter, I got the impression that one should not use >prerelease on sequences including feedback. I get the sense that I may >be able to have prerelease on some objects but not others, but it is >very important that the data logging and feedback are correct for the >task, so I am reluctant to use prerelease on anything. Thoughts? > >Event timing: Although I understand the difference between cumulative >and event timing, I am still having a hard time grasping the >implications of using each for my experiment; in particular I am not >sure how each choice would impact data analysis. E-prime will be >sending pulses to the physio machine that onset and offset with the >onset and offset of each stimulus. I want to be able to look at >physiological response to the stimuli (so it's an "event-related" >design). Given my question, I'm not sure about the relative pros and >cons of event and cumulative timing and what impact that decision will >have on my attempts to analyze the data. I am reluctant to change it >to cumulative timing because the task was made with "event timing" >set. Again, it seems like here too it might be best to use event >timing on certain objects and cumulative timing on others, but I'm not >sure what impact this would actually have on the experiment or which >objects to use what timing on. > >Thank you so much for your help >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Feb 23 10:34:03 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:34:03 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <4b82cd4d.5344f10a.709f.1b3cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: I think you meant Tobias, who wrote dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 ...rather than my... Dim Locs() as integer Dim i as integer For i = 1 to 640 Locs(i) = i Next i RandomizeArray Locs As I tried to explain usage of RandomizeArray... Still, my choice for your example, without randomized arrays would be: dim x as integer c.SetAttrib "posX", 200 * random(1,3) Hatsekidee! Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 22 February 2010 18:30 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > > > dim x as integer > > x = random(1,3) > > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 Just can't let this sit (even though Mich & I disagree on this point of programming style :) ), so here is the same code in two more different styles: dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 elseif x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 elseif x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 end if or dim x as integer select case random(1,3) case 1 c.setattrib "posX", 200 case 2 c.setattrib "posX", 400 case 3 c.setattrib "posX", 600 end select -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 15:05:38 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:05:38 -0800 Subject: critical timing (working with prerelease and event timing) In-Reply-To: <4b830b52.5344f10a.7089.22a5SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Namaste David, Thanks, I'll reply in the other post. Jim On Feb 22, 5:54 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > Please see my comments in your thread, "scoring a nonresponse as a > correct answer". > > (OK, now I'm late for my yoga class, and I really need the exercise.) > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hello forum, > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > >forum might have some ideas. > > >I was sent an e-prime task, and I will be using it in conjunction with > >a physiological data collection system. I have figured out how to send > >TTL pulses from e-prime to the physio system, and have the physio data > >collection starting with a pulse from each block of the task. However, > >there is no way to offset the physio data collection with a pulse, so > >the offset of the physio data collection is specified by a user- > >defined duration. > > >The problem I am running into is that each block of my task does not > >end at the same time each time I run it. After reading the critical > >timing chapter of the e-prime manual, I understand now why this is the > >case (at least in part). However, I am not sure how to fix this > >problem for my particular task. Presently there is no prerelease > >specified and all objects are set to event timing mode; I have > >questions about both of these options as they relate to this specific > >task: > > >Prerelease: The task consists of several blocks, and within each block > >is a repeating sequence of events; a stimulus is shown for 3 seconds, > >the participant responds during that interval and is given on screen > >feedback as an overlay on the stimulus screen (the latency of the > >feedback presentation is contingent upon participants' response; > >regardless of participants' response the stimulus is displayed for 3 > >seconds), then there is a 500ms blank screen. After reading the > >critical timing chapter, I got the impression that one should not use > >prerelease on sequences including feedback. I get the sense that I may > >be able to have prerelease on some objects but not others, but it is > >very important that the data logging and feedback are correct for the > >task, so I am reluctant to use prerelease on anything. Thoughts? > > >Event timing: Although I understand the difference between cumulative > >and event timing, I am still having a hard time grasping the > >implications of using each for my experiment; in particular I am not > >sure how each choice would impact data analysis. E-prime will be > >sending pulses to the physio machine that onset and offset with the > >onset and offset of each stimulus. I want to be able to look at > >physiological response to the stimuli (so it's an "event-related" > >design). Given my question, I'm not sure about the relative pros and > >cons of event and cumulative timing and what impact that decision will > >have on my attempts to analyze the data. I am reluctant to change it > >to cumulative timing because the task was made with "event timing" > >set. Again, it seems like here too it might be best to use event > >timing on certain objects and cumulative timing on others, but I'm not > >sure what impact this would actually have on the experiment or which > >objects to use what timing on. > > >Thank you so much for your help > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 16:00:01 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b830add.5344f10a.7089.2296SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. David: "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final object to score the .ACC if needed." Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data logging. Is this a correct assumption? Thanks, Jim On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > response targets".  By way of background, if you search this Group > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > several approaches to that. > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program?  I > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me.  It > should just work for you. > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > the intricacies of PreRelease.  Sadly, PST does not do a very good > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > effects).  For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing.  Then I just lay > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!!  Yes, I know that is > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > in several contexts.  If it were up to me I would just make > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > >here's what i would do: > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > >Do > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > >LetterStimulus object. > > >how's that? > > >ben > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > >Hello forum, > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > >forum might have some ideas. > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > >End If > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > >using inline code. > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > >timed with. > > >Thanks, > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From morgbri at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 16:43:07 2010 From: morgbri at gmail.com (Bri Morgan) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:43:07 -0800 Subject: key release timing Message-ID: I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0. Subjects will be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on the screen. The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount of time (avg 1250 ms). We need to log the time from when a subject releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 16:21:20 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:21:20 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: you say both your stim and the subsequent blank screen objects are recording responses? i would recommend that you set the stim to terminate after 250ms without prerelease, set the response window duration to 1250 ms, and do all the prerelease stuff at the end of your 1000 ms blank screen without expecting the blank screen to record any responses. the benefit to using only a single object to collect responses is mainly that it gives you a cleaner data file - you only need to look within a single column to see all the responses or non-responses, rather than look at multiple columns belonging to multiple E-Objects (stim and blank). that would be my preference... On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim wrote: > Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's > response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that > it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > > David: > "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > > By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any > leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be > incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > > "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > object to score the .ACC if needed." > > Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final > object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. > For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a > letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants > responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other > experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > > One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no > inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data > logging. Is this a correct assumption? > > Thanks, > Jim > > > > On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > response targets". By way of background, if you search this Group > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? I > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. It > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > the intricacies of PreRelease. Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > effects). For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. Then I just lay > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! Yes, I know that is > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > in several contexts. If it were up to me I would just make > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the > prerelease. > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > >Do > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > > >using inline code. > > > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > > >timed with. > > > > >Thanks, > > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From morgbri at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 17:55:24 2010 From: morgbri at gmail.com (Bri Morgan) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:55:24 -0800 Subject: key release timing In-Reply-To: <4b841045.5344f10a.70cb.7ec8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Is the only way to record releases using an SRBox? On Feb 23, 12:27 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Bri, > > First, use the search feature of this group with a term like > "release" and browse through the results, that should give you some > fuel to puzzle over for awhile.  Then if you still have more specific > difficulties write back. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > >I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0.  Subjects will > >be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" > >key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on > >the screen.  The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount > >of time (avg 1250 ms).  We need to log the time from when a subject > >releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. > >Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the > >subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. > > >Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? > > >Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 17:27:43 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:27:43 -0500 Subject: key release timing In-Reply-To: <9d899c00-6472-4fd5-b9f7-dcc2a489745a@y26g2000vbb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Bri, First, use the search feature of this group with a term like "release" and browse through the results, that should give you some fuel to puzzle over for awhile. Then if you still have more specific difficulties write back. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0. Subjects will >be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" >key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on >the screen. The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount >of time (avg 1250 ms). We need to log the time from when a subject >releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. >Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the >subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. > >Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? > >Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 19:07:04 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:07:04 -0500 Subject: key release timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bri, Oh, no, sorry if you got that impression. You can record releases from any response device. Please look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic of the online E-Basic Help. The E-Prime manuals may also cover this a bit so take a look there as well (note that you can use the search feature in the .pdfs of the manuals). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Is the only way to record releases using an SRBox? > >On Feb 23, 12:27 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Bri, > > > > First, use the search feature of this group with a term like > > "release" and browse through the results, that should give you some > > fuel to puzzle over for awhile. Then if you still have more specific > > difficulties write back. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > >I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0. Subjects will > > >be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" > > >key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on > > >the screen. The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount > > >of time (avg 1250 ms). We need to log the time from when a subject > > >releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. > > >Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the > > >subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. > > > > >Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? > > > > >Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Feb 23 16:57:48 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:57:48 -0000 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Speaking before my turn, but I thought perhaps the only issue you have is due to a 'pending' response, which is not exactly the same as an inaccurate or accurate response. Does the display to which you have an accurate or inaccurate response perhaps one that has a certain time limit? If I have a simple screen with time limit 10000 ms and duration 100 ms, for example, this is logged as ACC = 0 (just tested). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: 23 February 2010 16:00 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. David: "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final object to score the .ACC if needed." Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data logging. Is this a correct assumption? Thanks, Jim On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > response targets".  By way of background, if you search this Group > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > several approaches to that. > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program?  I > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me.  It > should just work for you. > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > the intricacies of PreRelease.  Sadly, PST does not do a very good > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > effects).  For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing.  Then I just lay > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!!  Yes, I know that is > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > in several contexts.  If it were up to me I would just make > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > >here's what i would do: > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > >Do > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > >LetterStimulus object. > > >how's that? > > >ben > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > >Hello forum, > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > >forum might have some ideas. > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > >End If > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > >using inline code. > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > >timed with. > > >Thanks, > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 21:44:15 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:44:15 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CED13A@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mich -- Good catch! Of course I had to try and verify this for myself, and as you outlined, if the Time Limit extends around to the next use of the same object, then E-Prime never gets to score the non-response and .ACC gets stuck with the default value of 0. Whenever I have used non-responses in the past of course I used either self-paced trials with End Action = Terminate, or I had better contained Time Limits, so I never noticed this until you mentioned it. Jim -- Ben's response refers to the use of what PST calls "Extended Input", you can learn about that in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. If you do not do this already, then only the letter object should collect the response, throughout its Duration and the Duration of the following blank period, using Extended Input (i.e., setting Time Limit to the sum of both Durations). If you cannot use a constant Time Limit then you will need some code to set it each time. Also, as explained in Chapter 3, PreRelease *can* interfere with data logging even if there is no inline scoring code, in particular if you get a response during a PreRelease right at the end of a Procedure. E.g., if your final stimuls/response object has a Duration of 1000 ms and a PreRelease of 200 ms, then E-Prime will run the object for just 1000 - 200 = 800 ms and then move on log responses, end the trial procedure, prepare the next object (i.e., the first object of the next trial) and then wait for the new object's .TargetOnsetTime. If your subject responds during that final 200 ms PreRelease window then it comes *after* responses have already been logged and will not be logged itself. So please read through that section again. Understanding PreRelease gets tricky, and I try to give beginners some rules of thumb such as, (1) if your Procedure collects a response, then do not use PreRelease, (2) if your Procedure does *not* collect any response then feel free to use any PreRelease that you like, (3) if you do use a PreRelease, don't bother overthinking it, just make it some arbitrarily large value. This is Draconian, and may well lead to some timing inaccuracies, but in general we fear losing responses more than we fear bad timing, and we can deal with the timing issues just for those cases where it matters. Finally, I will repeat that no one should ever take my word (much less the E-Prime documentation's word!) for anything -- you should think up as many specific test cases as you can and make as many short demo programs as you need to convince yourself of how things really work. All we can do here is give you a few hints of paths to try. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/23/2010 11:57 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >Hi, >Speaking before my turn, but I thought perhaps >the only issue you have is due to a 'pending' >response, which is not exactly the same as an >inaccurate or accurate response. Does the >display to which you have an accurate or >inaccurate response perhaps one that has a >certain time limit? If I have a simple screen >with time limit 10000 ms and duration 100 ms, >for example, this is logged as ACC = 0 (just tested). >Cheers, >Mich > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim >Sent: 23 February 2010 16:00 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer > >Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's >response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that >it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > >David: >"I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of >no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and >any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > >By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any >leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be >incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > >"For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial >itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the >onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use >PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final >object to score the .ACC if needed." > >Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final >object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. >For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a >letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants >responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other >experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > >One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no >inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data >logging. Is this a correct assumption? > >Thanks, >Jim > > > >On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > response targets". By way of background, if you search this Group > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? I > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. It > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > the intricacies of PreRelease. Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > effects). For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. Then I just lay > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! Yes, I know that is > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > in several contexts. If it were up to me I would just make > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > >Do > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > > >using inline code. > > > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > > >timed with. > > > > >Thanks, > > >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 21:51:53 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:51:53 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51002230821p251a0f38n52af247dd3a1017c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ben: I mispoke, only the stimulus is recording responses and it has a response window duration of 1250ms just as you said. On this particular task, I don't want to mess with pre-release because the scanner paradigm has already been used/validated by someone in my lab with 100ms prerelease on every object. I just want to figure out how to score non-response without inline code (the person who used the task before me did not log responses). Michiel: I'm not following you, so I will give more detail about the procedure of the task and maybe this will answer your question. Each trial presents a letter in the middle of a black screen for 250ms (with a response window duration of 1250ms) followed by a black screen (with no letter) for 1000ms. Thanks! Jim On Feb 23, 11:21 am, ben robinson wrote: > you say both your stim and the subsequent blank screen objects are recording > responses? > i would recommend that you set the stim to terminate after 250ms without > prerelease, set the response window duration to 1250 ms, and do all the > prerelease stuff at the end of your 1000 ms blank screen without expecting > the blank screen to record any responses.  the benefit to using only a > single object to collect responses is mainly that it gives you a cleaner > data file - you only need to look within a single column to see all the > responses or non-responses, rather than look at multiple columns belonging > to multiple E-Objects (stim and blank).  that would be my preference... > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim wrote: > > Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's > > response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that > > it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > > > David: > > "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > > > By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any > > leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be > > incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > > > "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > object to score the .ACC if needed." > > > Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final > > object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. > > For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a > > letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants > > responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other > > experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > > > One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no > > inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data > > logging. Is this a correct assumption? > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > > response targets".  By way of background, if you search this Group > > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program?  I > > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me.  It > > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > > the intricacies of PreRelease.  Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > > effects).  For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing.  Then I just lay > > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!!  Yes, I know that is > > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > > in several contexts.  If it were up to me I would just make > > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the > > prerelease. > > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > > >Do > > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > > > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > > > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > > > >using inline code. > > > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > > > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > > > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > > > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > > > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > > > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > > > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > > > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > > > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > > > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > > > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > > > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > > > >timed with. > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 22:06:38 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:06:38 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, >I don't want to mess with pre-release because the >scanner paradigm has already been used/validated by someone in my lab >with 100ms prerelease on every object. That 100 ms PreRelease is almost certainly an artifact of E-Prime defaults, and not a deliberate choice on the part of your developer. When you switch an object from Event to Cumulative timing mode then EP automatically imposes a default PreRelease of 100 ms, and unless the developer edits that then that is what you get left with whether it helps or not. As an exercise, you definitely should try setting PreRelease to 0 and then test the timing/sychnonization for yourself. Even without changes, you must personally shake down every program you use, I don't want to repeat the horror story we had here a few years back. If it takes you half an hour to sit through a timing verification run, then so be it, although with some cleverness you can speed things up using Clock.Scale. But in any case, you must, MUST personally shake down every program you use. I cannot stress that enough. And as long as you are shaking down that program, you might as well try some changes and learn a few things. Above all, do NOT get into a rush -- as my own graduate advisor told me many years ago, scientific research is a deliberative process and not a business to be done in a rush. Or have the times changed that much? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 22:04:28 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:04:28 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b844c66.5844f10a.1435.ffff8d06SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks David, I was typing my last response while you posted this! I think I understand Mich's response now. Essentially, there needs to be a gap between the end of the response interval of a given stimulus and the presentation of the next instance of the same stimulus? What would be the least disruptive way to change my task so that non- responses are correctly logged (e.g., should I change the response duration to 1249ms)? Also just to make sure I'm clear on this, Is this problem related to the fact that my objects have 100ms of prerelease or is this a totally separate issue? I read the timing chapter twice and the prerelease section more than that; unfortunately I am still very confused. Your general guidelines help. From your description, it really seems like one should not use prerelease if they are logging responses. Or I'm just misunderstanding you :) Also, David, I wanted to give an update on my other posting that you responded to here (the one that has a task with feedback synching with physio data collection). I tried setting all objects to cumulative mode. Timing was relatively repeatable accross runs (give or take a millisecond); however, when I responded to the stimuli instead of just letting the task run without responses, the timing was not repeatable (30-50ms off). I am not using prerelease with this task; participants are given feedback and I don't want it to interfere. Any ideas? Thanks, Jim On Feb 23, 4:44 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Mich -- Good catch!  Of course I had to try and > verify this for myself, and as you outlined, if > the Time Limit extends around to the next use of > the same object, then E-Prime never gets to score > the non-response and .ACC gets stuck with the > default value of 0.  Whenever I have used > non-responses in the past of course I used either > self-paced trials with End Action = Terminate, or > I had better contained Time Limits, so I never > noticed this until you mentioned it. > > Jim -- Ben's response refers to the use of what > PST calls "Extended Input", you can learn about > that in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came > with E-Prime.  If you do not do this already, > then only the letter object should collect the > response, throughout its Duration and the > Duration of the following blank period, using > Extended Input (i.e., setting Time Limit to the > sum of both Durations).  If you cannot use a > constant Time Limit then you will need some code to set it each time. > > Also, as explained in Chapter 3, PreRelease *can* > interfere with data logging even if there is no > inline scoring code, in particular if you get a > response during a PreRelease right at the end of > a Procedure.  E.g., if your final > stimuls/response object has a Duration of 1000 ms > and a PreRelease of 200 ms, then E-Prime will run > the object for just 1000 - 200 = 800 ms and then > move on log responses, end the trial procedure, > prepare the next object (i.e., the first object > of the next trial) and then wait for the new > object's .TargetOnsetTime.  If your subject > responds during that final 200 ms PreRelease > window then it comes *after* responses have > already been logged and will not be logged > itself.  So please read through that section > again.  Understanding PreRelease gets tricky, and > I try to give beginners some rules of thumb such > as,  (1) if your Procedure collects a response, > then do not use PreRelease,  (2) if your > Procedure does *not* collect any response then > feel free to use any PreRelease that you > like,  (3) if you do use a PreRelease, don't > bother overthinking it, just make it some > arbitrarily large value.  This is Draconian, and > may well lead to some timing inaccuracies, but in > general we fear losing responses more than we > fear bad timing, and we can deal with the timing > issues just for those cases where it matters. > > Finally, I will repeat that no one should ever > take my word (much less the E-Prime > documentation's word!) for anything -- you should > think up as many specific test cases as you can > and make as many short demo programs as you need > to convince yourself of how things really > work.  All we can do here is give you a few hints of paths to try. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/23/2010 11:57 AM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > >Hi, > >Speaking before my turn, but I thought perhaps > >the only issue you have is due to a 'pending' > >response, which is not exactly the same as an > >inaccurate or accurate response. Does the > >display to which you have an accurate or > >inaccurate response perhaps one that has a > >certain time limit? If I have a simple screen > >with time limit 10000 ms and duration 100 ms, > >for example, this is logged as ACC = 0 (just tested). > >Cheers, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim > >Sent: 23 February 2010 16:00 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Re: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer > > >Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's > >response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that > >it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > > >David: > >"I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > >no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > >any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > > >By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any > >leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be > >incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > > >"For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > >itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > >onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > >PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > >object to score the .ACC if needed." > > >Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final > >object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. > >For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a > >letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants > >responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other > >experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > > >One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no > >inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data > >logging. Is this a correct assumption? > > >Thanks, > >Jim > > >On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > > response targets".  By way of background, if you search this Group > > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program?  I > > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me.  It > > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > > the intricacies of PreRelease.  Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > > effects).  For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing.  Then I just lay > > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!!  Yes, I know that is > > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > > in several contexts.  If it were up to me I would just make > > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > > >Do > > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > > >I want to > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 22:42:12 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:42:12 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b8451a5.5244f10a.6521.ffff93e8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: FYI, I set the response duration as 1150ms (100ms prior to the presentation of the subsequent stimulus) and nonresponses are still being incorrectly scored as ACC=0. ??? On Feb 23, 5:06 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > >I don't want to mess with pre-release because the > >scanner paradigm has already been used/validated by someone in my lab > >with 100ms prerelease on every object. > > That 100 ms PreRelease is almost certainly an artifact of E-Prime > defaults, and not a deliberate choice on the part of your > developer.  When you switch an object from Event to Cumulative timing > mode then EP automatically imposes a default PreRelease of 100 ms, > and unless the developer edits that then that is what you get left > with whether it helps or not. > > As an exercise, you definitely should try setting PreRelease to 0 and > then test the timing/sychnonization for yourself.  Even without > changes, you must personally shake down every program you use, I > don't want to repeat the horror story we had here a few years > back.  If it takes you half an hour to sit through a timing > verification run, then so be it, although with some cleverness you > can speed things up using Clock.Scale.  But in any case, you must, > MUST personally shake down every program you use.  I cannot stress > that enough.  And as long as you are shaking down that program, you > might as well try some changes and learn a few things.  Above all, do > NOT get into a rush -- as my own graduate advisor told me many years > ago, scientific research is a deliberative process and not a business > to be done in a rush.  Or have the times changed that much? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 22:43:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:43:10 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, >I think I understand Mich's response now. Essentially, there needs to >be a gap between the end of the response interval of a given stimulus >and the presentation of the next instance of the same stimulus? What >would be the least disruptive way to change my task so that non- >responses are correctly logged (e.g., should I change the response >duration to 1249ms)? Hmm, even if that worked I think there is a better way. > Also just to make sure I'm clear on this, Is this >problem related to the fact that my objects have 100ms of prerelease >or is this a totally separate issue? Quite likely related, the more I understand your program. >I read the timing chapter twice and the prerelease section more than >that; unfortunately I am still very confused. Your general guidelines >help. From your description, it really seems like one should not use >prerelease if they are logging responses. Or I'm just misunderstanding >you :) No, you got that right. I would start with all PreRelease set to 0, and then add PreRelease only as needed. And instead of doing this in my actual experiment program, I would start with a lot of little demo programs as exercises to first test my understanding. Cumulative mode should do everthing you need to make sure that your task program stays more or less in sync with external equipment (brain scan, etc.), even in the presence of large OnsetDelays (in fact I have sometimes deliberately taken advantage of that fact); PreRelease contributes nothing to synchronizing with external equipment, and comes into play only when you need to reduce individual OnsetDelays, and even then some cases require techniques that go beyond PreRelease (preloading/caching, etc.). So leave PreRelease at 0 until you know you need it, and know *why* and *where* you need it. >I tried setting all objects to cumulative >mode. Timing was relatively repeatable accross runs (give or take a >millisecond); however, when I responded to the stimuli instead of just >letting the task run without responses, the timing was not repeatable >(30-50ms off). That's just weird. Unless... unless you have End Action = (none) or Jump anywhere, then all bets are off. But then you should also get off by much more than 30-50 ms. Or unless you have some inline code messing with TargetOnsetTime, or skipping past some objects, but short of that, with Cumulative Timing everything should Just Work regardless of responses. So maybe it's time for you to take this to a local expert who can look at the program, or send it back to your collaborator and have their developer fix this. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 22:50:49 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:50:49 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <983cfe88-fe90-4e50-8c21-6012063f7f9e@m37g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, >FYI, I set the response duration as 1150ms (100ms prior to the >presentation of the subsequent stimulus) and nonresponses are still >being incorrectly scored as ACC=0. ??? You need to stop working on the actual experiment program. Before you do anything else, make a simple demo program with a List and a Procedure with one TextDisplay, have it take some input and leave Correct empty, then run it and see that you get .ACC = 1 for nonresponses. If you cannot get that to work then nothing else matters. Once you do get that to work you can extend it along the lines of your experiment until you figure out what is going on. As a general strategy, I find it more productive to start from success than from failure -- easier to start with a simple and easily understood working model and find what breaks it than to start from a complex broken model and find what fixes it. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ixkackxi at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 18:37:47 2010 From: ixkackxi at gmail.com (Carlos) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:37:47 -0800 Subject: Response devices In-Reply-To: <4b7c2d2f.5944f10a.7174.7ae3SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: To all, Just to make things simple for everyone, here is what e-prime would be expecting regardless of what response pads you are using. Constant data stream when nothing is pressed = 00000000 = &H00 Button 1 = 00000001 = &H01 Button 2 = 00000010 = &H02 Button 3 = 00000100 = &H04 Button 4 = 00001000 = &H08 Button 5 = 00010000 = &H10 and so on up until 8 buttons. I want to thank David for his help on this! Without his input we might not have figured this out. We were thinking what E-Prime was expecting was much more complicated than this, and kept on straying farther and farther. Hope this helps everyone -Carlos Faraco On Feb 17, 12:53 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > At 2/16/2010 06:07 PM Tuesday, Carlos wrote: > > >David, > > >Anyways, my colleague (who is the one mainly in charge of trying to > >configure our response pads) and I have looked at this and tried to > >implement a few things. So far we haven't had any luck. We don't have > >an SRBox from E-Prime so we can't really route anything through there > >or even try to figure out in more detail how it works. You seemed to > >have provided that though in your e-mail so I don't think is an issue > >at this point. It just seems that E-Prime does not want to correctly > >interpret what we are sending to it. > > >I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind. > > >1) Should we be setting the SRBOX Object/Device in E-Prime to be > >emulating the keyboard? > > That is entirely up to you, it makes no difference to how E-Prime > gets the input from the SRBox.  It may simplify the testing of your > input masks -- you can use a Keyboard mask (using the same values as > your SRBox will use) to test your program without the SRBox, then > when you add the SRBox you have everything ready. > > >2) What type of information should we be having the breadbox send out? > >Should this be in hex? We have verified that the breadbox is sending > >out the information we configure it so send, but E-Prime doesn't seem > >to happy with whatever type of output we send to it. > > I thought I covered that in my earlier post. > > >3) You said the E-Prime SRBOX sends out &H7F when it powers on. Is > >this something that E-Prime has to detect? > > Not as far as I know, I simply recorded an observation that I made > (hence I enclosed that in parentheses). > > >4) Does the SRBox send a steady stream of bytes to E-Prime at the > >speed of 800 bytes per second even if no button is pressed? > > Yes. > > >5) If no button is pressed, what will the SRbox send to E-Prime? > > It sends a steady stream of &H00 bytes. > > >In your reply you said: In your reply you mentioned:Each bit encodes > >the state of one button, so, e.g., button 1 sends &H01, button 2 &H02, > >button 3 &H04, etc.; and buttons 1 & 3 simultaneously send &H05, etc. > >You may then decode the byte with If...Then, or masking unwanted bits > >with a bitwise And > > >Would that be the answer to the last two questions? > > Yes, indeed. > > >6) If, for example, button 1 is pressed, does the SRBox send > >"00000001" to E-Prime immediately? Is there any debounce processing > >needed? By any chance do you know how they achieve the "0 millisecond > >debounce period" as declared in their website? > > It does send the "00000001" (or &H01, or 0x01, which I find easier to > read).  I do not recall any debounce circuity in the SRBox.  However, > since it sends a new datum only once every 1/800 s = 1.25 ms, the > buttons have plenty of time to debounce between each datum. > > Hope that helps, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 19:07:47 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:07:47 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b845c00.5244f10a.6521.ffff954fSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Using a paired down version of the task, with one block but with everything else in tact, I tried some things: 1) I tried turning prerelease off on all objects, this didn't solve the problem 2) As I noted previously, I tried shortening the response duration to 1150, also didn't solve the problem 3) Did both 1 and 2 simultaneously, and nonresponses were correctly scored ACC = 1. **So the problem is an interaction of prerelease and response duration However, shortening the response duration really defeats the purpose of why I removed the inline code. Specifically, I was concerned that having the inline code (and having the previous object with a prerelease of 100ms) meant that the inline would be executed 100ms before the end of the response period. So, 4) I turned all prereleases off, inserted my scoring inline code, nonresponses were correctly scored. So, now a question about inline code: how much time does it add to each trial of my task to run the inline code (and does this amount of time increase depending on the length of the inline code script)? My task currently has each trial as a) stimulus (250ms with 1250ms response window), b) blank screen (1000ms), c) inline scoring code. My questions: 1) Does adding the inline code increase the duration of the overall task (does the magnitude of this increase in duration depend on the length of inline code)? 2) Does adding inline code cause responses to be logged and scored prior to the termination of the 1250ms response window? (If so, how much) 3) To clarify your earlier point, David, I am assuming that removing all prereleases shouldn't change the overall duration of my task, just the magnitude of onset delays, right? By the way, this discussion has been, and continues to be, tremendously helpful in my learning about e-prime as a new user! Thanks, Jim On Feb 23, 5:50 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > >FYI, I set the response duration as 1150ms (100ms prior to the > >presentation of the subsequent stimulus) and nonresponses are still > >being incorrectly scored as ACC=0. ??? > > You need to stop working on the actual experiment program.  Before > you do anything else, make a simple demo program with a List and a > Procedure with one TextDisplay, have it take some input and leave > Correct empty, then run it and see that you get .ACC = 1 for > nonresponses.  If you cannot get that to work then nothing else > matters.  Once you do get that to work you can extend it along the > lines of your experiment until you figure out what is going on. > > As a general strategy, I find it more productive to start from > success than from failure -- easier to start with a simple and easily > understood working model and find what breaks it than to start from a > complex broken model and find what fixes it. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 22:34:08 2010 From: sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:34:08 -0800 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects Message-ID: Hello all, I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, in that order. It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT from both objects. I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT instead of two for both objects. Is there any way for this to be done? Thank you, Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 04:07:32 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:07:32 -0500 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects In-Reply-To: <1032b21b-a58d-4ec8-8192-92846c570d3c@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Sarah, Please work through the Extended Input tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and see if that helps. Also, think through the difference between End Action = Terminate vs. (none). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > Hello all, > > I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 > and Wait1, in that order. > > It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it > is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, > then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. > This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the > subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects > the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for > each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT > from both objects. > > I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for > ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT > instead of two for both objects. > > Is there any way for this to be done? > > Thank you, > Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 15:57:43 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:57:43 -0800 Subject: e-prime task runs for variable durations Message-ID: Forum, I'm developing a basic CPT task to use in conjunction with fMRI. The task displays a letter for 250ms, a blank screen for 1 second, then scores responses using inline code. Rinse and repeat. One thing that I've noticed with e-prime is that the duration of a task changes across trials, even when all objects are set to cumulative (and objects are set to run for a specified length of time as opposed to terminating with user input). For example, I ran a task this morning 4 times, 2 with 100ms prerelease and 2 without prerelease. The difference between the longest and shortest trials accross task versions was 5 seconds; the difference between the average duration for the 2 task versions was 2 seconds. This is problematic for me since most of the time I am using e-prime in conjunction with fMRI or physio data collection. I can't get a handle on how long I should set my scanner program for if the e-prime program has a variable duration. Is this variable duration to be expected or something problematic with my task? If it is to be expected, how do folks synch scanner/physio programs with e-prime? Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 19:27:30 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:27:30 -0800 Subject: Buttons Message-ID: Hi, Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that with buttons. The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will have to choose one of those. However, my research involved with numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to 4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to learn it soon. So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 20:33:37 2010 From: sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:33:37 -0800 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects In-Reply-To: <4B85F784.5040305@msu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks David, It was a little more complicated than the appendix explanation. Instead of having the ImageDisplay1 = 500ms and the Wait1 = 1000ms, I changed the ImageDisplay to terminate but made it 1500ms, and kept the duration to 500ms, and then took out response collection for Wait1. I also had to adjust my inline to have the total trial time always equaling 1500ms despite the response time. But the appendix helped! Thank you, Sarah On Feb 24, 11:07 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Sarah, > > Please work through the Extended Input tutorial in Appendix C of the > User's Guide that came with E-Prime and see if that helps. > > Also, think through the difference between End Action = Terminate vs. > (none). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > Hello all, > > > I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 > > and Wait1, in that order. > > > It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it > > is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, > > then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. > > This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the > > subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects > > the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for > > each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT > > from both objects. > > > I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for > > ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT > > instead of two for both objects. > > > Is there any way for this to be done? > > > Thank you, > > Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 21:00:21 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:00:21 -0500 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects In-Reply-To: <118b9037-2ede-4679-a198-5b37473aed77@m37g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Sarah, Glad you got it to work. Not that you need this now, but here is another trick that I have used in a situation somewhat like yours. Suppose we have a StimSlide followed by a MaskText to erase the stimulus, where StimSlide lasts for 500 ms or until a response (whichever comes first), and we want the whole trial to last 1500 ms regardless of response time (i.e., MaskText should last the remainder of the 1500 ms after the termination of StimSlide). We still need a bit of inline code between StimSlide and MaskText, but instead of doing the calculation directly (which can get tricky to take account of onset delays, etc.), we set both objects to Cumulative timing mode, set the Duration of MaskText to a constant 1500 ms, and use the following single line of code: SetNextTargetOnsetTime StimSlide.TargetOnsetTime E-Prime then automatically takes care of the rest. Just think about it (and maybe look at SetNextTargetOnsetTime in the online E-Basic Help). Even though MaskText starts well into the 1500 ms, that doesn't matter, because E-Prime still takes MaskText.TargetOnsetTime to be the same as StimSlide.TargetOnsetTime, and as a result MaskText.TargetOffsetTime becomes StimSlide.TargetOnsetTime + 1500, which is all that we want. Whew! Now, I am still a bit puzzled about exactly what your Wait1 does, since unless you have ClearAfter = Yes on your ImageDisplay then the ImageDisplay would remain during the Wait1. Usually when we want to erase a display we follow it with a blank TextDisplay instead of using ClearAfter with a Wait object, but I suppose that is a matter of personal programming style. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Thanks David, > >It was a little more complicated than the appendix explanation. >Instead of having the ImageDisplay1 = 500ms and the Wait1 = 1000ms, I >changed the ImageDisplay to terminate but made it 1500ms, and kept the >duration to 500ms, and then took out response collection for Wait1. I >also had to adjust my inline to have the total trial time always >equaling 1500ms despite the response time. > >But the appendix helped! >Thank you, >Sarah > >On Feb 24, 11:07 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Sarah, > > > > Please work through the Extended Input tutorial in Appendix C of the > > User's Guide that came with E-Prime and see if that helps. > > > > Also, think through the difference between End Action = Terminate vs. > > (none). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 > > > and Wait1, in that order. > > > > > It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it > > > is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, > > > then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. > > > This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the > > > subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects > > > the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for > > > each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT > > > from both objects. > > > > > I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for > > > ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT > > > instead of two for both objects. > > > > > Is there any way for this to be done? > > > > > Thank you, > > > Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 22:01:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:01:54 -0500 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <65fb5de8-81a1-49f0-ad42-b1aea1af544c@e7g2000yqf.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Gilis, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which you may look up in the online E-Basic Help. Also, if you look at the Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of how to use this. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that >with buttons. > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will >have to choose one of those. However, my research involved with >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to >learn it soon. > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 23:13:42 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:13:42 -0500 Subject: e-prime task runs for variable durations In-Reply-To: <2f804f9d-ed11-4ef5-8a7c-248911db8f42@c16g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, It's your program. I have used Cumulative timing mode on very complex tasks that span many minutes in an fMRI scanner, with exactly 0 ms error on the final .TargetOnsetTime, which is the operative measure here. And if you understand the simple arithmetic underlying Cumulative mode (much simpler than the PST documentation makes it out), then you will know that it *has* to be exact, anything else would violate the laws of arithmetic! So I say this again Jim -- Stop working on your actual experiment programs and start working on *lots* of *small* demo programs until you work out the fundamental concepts of Cumulative vs. Event, PreRelease, Terminate vs (none), and Duration vs. Time Limit inside & out, forward & backwards, sideways & up & down! And I do not mean a "paired [sic] down" version of your experiment program, that is not fair. I mean start with a completely blank slate. Add one List, one Procedure, and one TextDisplay. Set it to log *everything*. Run that with every combination of parameters that you can think of (preferably in a systematic way) and examine the changing relationships between *all* the logged timing measures in the resulting .edat files until you think you know how everything works. Then try to think up more tests that will prove you wrong, and run those tests. (Need I say that I am just asking you to apply the same scientific process to your research tools as you do to your research itself?) Then add one or two more TextDisplay objects to the Procedure and continue your battery of tests. Etc., etc. And after all that, still do *not* go back to your existing broken program. Instead, start with another blank slate and rebuild your experiment program from scratch, this time doing a test run after *each* and *every* change. No, I am *not* kidding. Do it this way and you will finally creep up on the factor that breaks your existing program, and only then will you be close to the understanding you need. For the final stage (and I have neglected to stress this earlier) you must also study the code automatically generated by E-Studio. That will reveal much of the inner workings. Only after you have done the exercises described above *combined with* studying and understanding the code generated by E-Studio will you be in a position to tame your programs as desired. Over thirty years in this business has taught me the hard way, again and again, that I will not find the solution to even the "simplest" problem until I do the hard work of tearing each system down to its roots and understanding it to the very core. Not what we wish, but there it is. The sooner you learn that lesson the sooner you will progress in this endeavor. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) >I'm developing a basic CPT task to use in conjunction with fMRI. The >task displays a letter for 250ms, a blank screen for 1 second, then >scores responses using inline code. Rinse and repeat. > >One thing that I've noticed with e-prime is that the duration of a >task changes across trials, even when all objects are set to >cumulative (and objects are set to run for a specified length of time >as opposed to terminating with user input). For example, I ran a task >this morning 4 times, 2 with 100ms prerelease and 2 without >prerelease. The difference between the longest and shortest trials >accross task versions was 5 seconds; the difference between the >average duration for the 2 task versions was 2 seconds. This is >problematic for me since most of the time I am using e-prime in >conjunction with fMRI or physio data collection. I can't get a handle >on how long I should set my scanner program for if the e-prime program >has a variable duration. > >Is this variable duration to be expected or something problematic with >my task? If it is to be expected, how do folks synch scanner/physio >programs with e-prime? > >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 23:14:27 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:14:27 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <823cecf3-8be5-4e5b-8753-60394adb017b@g10g2000yqh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, >1) Does adding the inline code increase the duration of the overall >task (does the magnitude of this increase in duration depend on the >length of inline code)? As I have said recently in another thread, you might be surprised at just how much code modern machines can run in under a millisecond. I once wrote a complete & inefficient Maximum Liklihood Estimation staircase program in EP code that did dozens of logarithmic calculations and multiplications between each stimulus, and noticed no delays at all. Most time bottlenecks these days are not due to running code, but to loading files from the disk or interruptions from the operating system. So in principle, yes, the more code you add the more you will add delays, but in practice, unless you run actual timing delay loops or sleep commands, I highly doubt you will see any difference. And once again, you should devise your own tests to see if I know what I am talking about. More importantly, even in the worst case of delays added from inline code, Cumulative mode will *still* provide the proper .TargetOnsetTimes. It *must*, because it is just simple arithmetic, as I explain below. >2) Does adding inline code cause responses to be logged and scored >prior to the termination of the 1250ms response window? (If so, how >much) Note first that scoring, setting, and logging are all different things. Scoring happens either internally by the object, or externally when you add inline code such as If StimText.RESP = "1" Then StimText.ACC = 1 What I will call "setting" (lacking a better term on the spur of the moment) happens when you or E-Prime adds code such as c.SetAttrib "StimText.ACC", StimText.ACC This sets the value of an attribute which can then be logged. Finally, logging happens with the line c.Log This line gets added silently & automatically at the end of every Procedure (unless you disable that, which is by design hard to do). Go ahead, look at the full generated code and see if you can find the c.Log just before the End Sub of every Procedure. So you can have c.SetAttrib change the value of any attribute wherever and as many times as you like within a Procedure, but it will get logged using the latest value only at the end of the Procedure. So in answer to your question, if your scoring inline takes place before the response then the response may not get properly scored; all input masks will get logged at the end of the Procedure, whether or not a response has come by then and notwithstanding any nonsense that goes on in intervening inline code; and inline code cannot "log" (as opposed to score) responses prematurely unless you deliberately add the c.Log line yourself, in which case you are just asking for trouble (unless you are an E-Prime Master and really know what you are doing). >3) To clarify your earlier point, David, I am assuming that removing >all prereleases shouldn't change the overall duration of my task, just >the magnitude of onset delays, right? As long as you set everything to use Cumulative timing mode, yes, that is correct. It has to be, because of the laws of arithmetic and the simple arithmetic relationship between consecutive .TargetOnsetTimes (which PST fails to properly explain). Taking the simple case of Cumulative timing where objects never get terminated by a response, given two objects A and B where B follows A (whether within the same Procedure or on the following trial, and where B may in fact just be a repetition of A), then the following simple relation holds: B.TargetOnsetTime = A.TargetOnsetTime + A.Duration Note that PreRelease and actual OnsetTime (let alone OnsetDelay) play absolutely *no* role in this calculation. Thus, in this simple case, the timing synchronization of .TargetOnsetTime (which is all that we can really control) absolutely *cannot* drift. Now, PreRelease simply advances the .OffsetTime of objects, thus, A.TargetOffsetTime = A.TargetOnsetTime + A.Duration - A.PreRelease Note that neither A.TargetOffsetTime nor A.OffsetTime control when B will start, that is controlled only by B.TargetOnsetTime. A.TargetOffsetTime simply controls when E-Prime ceases the idle loop that runs during A, and allows the processor to do some other work (e.g., run inline code, or load image or sound files). B will not start until the Clock reaches B.TargetOnsetTime, regardless of how early A.TargetOffsetTime comes. Finally, if by some quirk E-Prime does not get to B until the Clock is already past B.TargetOnsetTime, B will just start immediately, and (in Cumulative mode) B.TargetOffsetTime (as well as, now, C.TargetOnsetTime) will still just be A.TargetOnsetTime + A.Duration. Follow? (This is in fact an advanced trick that I take advatage of in some programs.) Again, this is just elementary arithmetic, nothing magic. (And if you understand the underlying mechanics like I do, you will see how silly this whole PreRelease mechanism is, but that is another matter.) And once again, do NOT take my word, or even PST's word, for *any* of this. You really have to knuckle down, make a bunch of small demo programs for yourself, turn on logging of *everything*, start making changes and see for yourself how all these parameters really affect all the timing measures. How do you think *I* figured this all out? I certainly did not get it from reading PST's documentation (Chapter 3 notwithstanding), nor did I get it from reading the online posts of some random self-styled "Faultfinder" like me. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 13:35:26 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:35:26 -0800 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <4b86f38c.5344f10a.7093.3386SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: thanks, I tried to open this example : http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a readable file... Best Wishes Gilis On 26 פברואר, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: > Gilis, > > Standard reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > really does like to take any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  So don't be shy > there.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please > extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take ... > > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help.  Also, if you look at the > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of > how to use this. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that > >with buttons. > > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will > >have to choose one of those. However, my research  involved with > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to > >learn it soon. > > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:18:36 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:18:36 -0500 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <6add181e-1825-4f07-b0a8-29b0caeafcb0@b30g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Gilis, I clicked on your link, downloaded the .zip file, extracted it, and opened the .es file with no trouble. Just to be sure, I will send you the .zip file privately, along with the extracted .es file. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I tried to open this example : >http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 >however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the >first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and >after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, >only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a >txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me >whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a >readable file... >Best Wishes >Gilis > >On 26 ×¤×‘×¨×•× ×¨, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: > > Gilis, > > > > Standard reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > > really does like to take any and all > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  So don't be shy > > there.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please > > extend the courtesy of posting their reply > back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take ... > > > > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the > > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the > > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which > > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help.  Also, if you look at the > > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of > > how to use this. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an > > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly > > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that > > >with buttons. > > > > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object > > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will > > >have to choose one of those. However, my research  involved with > > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to > > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > > > > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design > > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit > > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to > > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet > > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and > > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to > > >learn it soon. > > > > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:20:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:20:54 -0500 Subject: [Private] Re: Buttons In-Reply-To: <6add181e-1825-4f07-b0a8-29b0caeafcb0@b30g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: [Private e-mail] Gilis, I have attached the .zip file from PST, plus the extracted .es file. -- dkm >thanks, >I tried to open this example : >http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 >however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the >first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and >after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, >only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a >txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me >whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a >readable file... >Best Wishes >Gilis > >On 26 ×¤×‘×¨×•× ×¨, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: > > Gilis, > > > > Standard reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > > really does like to take any and all > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  So don't be shy > > there.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please > > extend the courtesy of posting their reply > back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take ... > > > > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the > > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the > > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which > > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help.  Also, if you look at the > > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of > > how to use this. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an > > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly > > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that > > >with buttons. > > > > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object > > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will > > >have to choose one of those. However, my research  involved with > > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to > > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > > > > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design > > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit > > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to > > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet > > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and > > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to > > >learn it soon. > > > > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- [WARNING] WARNING: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY! Use only E-Studio to edit this file. Editing of this file from any other means is not supported and may corrupt the experiment design specification. Technical support will not be able to address any issue in regards to this file format. [Experiment] VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _VersionPersist=6 Root="SessionProc" Author="PST" Abstract="3/24/04 - Updated to use MouseResponseData and fixed two\r\n props in Stimulus that were set wrong from legacy versions\r\n\r\nThis example illustrates how to create response areas on the screen,\r\nthen collect and score mouse-click responses based on those \r\nareas. The example uses the HitTest method of the SlideState \r\nobject.\r\n\r\nResponse areas have been defined as SlideText objects on the \r\nSlide object \"Stimulus\". Each SlideText object is given a\r\nunique name via its Properties window. \r\n\r\nThe TrialList references the SlideText object by name under the \r\nCorrectAnswer attribute.\r\n\r\nThe DoHitTest script tells E-Prime to find the x- and y-\r\ncoordinates of the mouse click when a response is made. \r\nThe HitTest method determines the string name of the SlideText \r\nobject at the specified coordinates. If the \r\nmouse click occurs within a SlideText object, the name of\r\nthe object is returned. If the mouse click occurs in another area of\r\nthe display, a null value is returned.\r\n\r\nThe DoHitTest InLine then compares the name returned by the\r\nresponse to the name designated in the TrialList as the \r\nCorrectAnswer. If they match, the response is scored as correct. \r\nIf they do not, the response is incorrect. " Notes="Revised: 1/22/02" Creation=1080162287 [Device0] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=1 CollectionMode=1 EmulateDeviceName="" CapsLock=0 NumLock=0 Name="Keyboard" Class="Keyboard" [Device1] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=1 CollectionMode=1 EmulateDeviceName="" OpenMode=0 ShowCursor=0 Name="Mouse" Class="Mouse" [Device2] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=1 Width=640 Height=480 Bpp=16 Name="Display" Class="Display" [Device3] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=0 Channels=2 Samples=22050 Bps=16 Name="Sound" Class="Sound" [DataFile] WarnBeforeOverwrite=1 WarnIfConvertFailed=1 RemoveERecoveryFile=0 ReceiveFeedbackDuringDataFileConversion=1 LogLevel(2).Name="Block" LogLevel(3).Name="Trial" LogLevel(4).Name="SubTrial" LogLevel(5).Name="LogLevel5" LogLevel(6).Name="LogLevel6" LogLevel(7).Name="LogLevel7" LogLevel(8).Name="LogLevel8" LogLevel(9).Name="LogLevel9" LogLevel(10).Name="LogLevel10" [StartupInfo] DisplaySummary=1 UseDefaults=0 [StartupInfo1] Name="Subject" Prompt="Please enter the Subject Number (0-32767):" DataType=0 Enabled=1 PromptEnabled=1 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 PrivateFlags=268435477 PrivateInfo=1 [StartupInfo2] Name="Session" Prompt="Please enter the Session Number (0-32767):" DataType=0 Enabled=1 PromptEnabled=1 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 PrivateFlags=268435477 PrivateInfo=1 [StartupInfo3] Name="Group" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Group (0-32767):" DataType=0 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 [StartupInfo4] Name="Name" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Name:" DataType=1 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="" MaxLength=255 [StartupInfo5] Name="Age" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Age (0-150):" DataType=0 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="0" Min=0 Max=150 [StartupInfo6] Name="Sex" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Sex:" DataType=2 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="male" Choice(1).Value="male" Choice(2).Value="female" [StartupInfo7] Name="Handedness" Prompt="Enter Subject's Handedness:" DataType=2 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="left" Choice(1).Value="left" Choice(2).Value="right" [StartupInfo8] Name="ResearcherID" Prompt="Please enter Researcher's ID:" DataType=0 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 [Object0] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _ItemList="Instructions;ShowCursor;BlockList;Goodbye" _VersionPersist=1 FlowLines(0).Count=4 FlowLines(0).FlowItem(0).Name="Instructions" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(1).Name="ShowCursor" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(2).Name="BlockList" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(3).Name="Goodbye" LogData=1 Name="SessionProc" TypeName="Procedure" Tag="" Notes="" [Object1] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 Input(0)=!Data0 _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Text="Welcome to the experiment\n\nYou will see a fixation followed by an arrow and a '*' in 1 of 4 positions.\n\n\nAs quickly as you can, click the box containing the '*'.\n\nPress any key to continue" ForeColor="black" BackColor="white" BackStyle="opaque" BorderColor="black" BorderWidth="0" X="center" Y="center" Width="100%" Height="100%" XAlign="center" YAlign="center" AlignHorizontal="center" AlignVertical="center" FontName="Courier New" FontSize="18" FontBold="Yes" FontItalic="No" FontUnderline="No" FontStrikeout="No" WordWrap=1 ClearAfter="No" Duration="10000" JumpLabel="" TimingMode=0 PreRelease="0" OnsetSync=1 OffsetSync=0 Name="Instructions" TypeName="TextDisplay" Tag="" Notes="" [Data0] DeviceName="Keyboard" DeviceClass="Keyboard" AllowableInput="{ANY}" CorrectInput="" TimeLimit="" MaxCount="1" InputAction=1 SyncOwnerDuration=1 Enabled=1 FlushInputBuffer="Yes" TerminationInput="" UserTag="" ResponseMode="All" ProcessBackspace="Yes" [Object2] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("PracticeMode").Log=-1 _ItemList="BlockProc" _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Order=0 OrderBy=0 ResetEveryRun=0 HideLevelsWithZeroWeight=0 CycleDef=0 CycleValueSamples=0 CycleValueCondition="" ExitDef=0 ExitValueCycles=1 ExitValueSamples=1 ExitValueSeconds=0 ExitValueCondition="" LoadMethod=2 Filename="" UserAttributes=1 Attributes("Weight").DefaultValue="1" Attributes("Weight").Visible=1 Attributes("Weight").Width=75 Attributes("Weight").OrderIndex=0 Attributes("Procedure").DefaultValue="" Attributes("Procedure").Visible=1 Attributes("Procedure").Width=75 Attributes("Procedure").OrderIndex=1 Attributes("Nested").DefaultValue="" Attributes("Nested").Visible=1 Attributes("Nested").Width=75 Attributes("Nested").OrderIndex=2 Attributes(1).Name="PracticeMode" Attributes(1).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(1).VarType=8 Attributes(1).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(1).Visible=1 Attributes(1).Width=86 Levels=1 Levels(1).ValueString="1\tBlockProc\t\tNo\t" Name="BlockList" TypeName="List" Tag="" Notes="" [Object3] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Text="Thank you for participating.\n\n\nGoodbye!" ForeColor="black" BackColor="white" BackStyle="opaque" BorderColor="black" BorderWidth="0" X="center" Y="center" Width="100%" Height="100%" XAlign="center" YAlign="center" AlignHorizontal="center" AlignVertical="center" FontName="Courier New" FontSize="18" FontBold="Yes" FontItalic="No" FontUnderline="No" FontStrikeout="No" WordWrap=1 ClearAfter="yes" Duration="2000" JumpLabel="" TimingMode=0 PreRelease="0" OnsetSync=1 OffsetSync=0 Name="Goodbye" TypeName="TextDisplay" Tag="" Notes="" [Object4] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _ItemList="TrialList" _VersionPersist=1 FlowLines(0).Count=1 FlowLines(0).FlowItem(0).Name="TrialList" LogData=1 Name="BlockProc" TypeName="Procedure" Tag="" Notes="" [Object5] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Text="\n\n\n\n\n\n\n+\n\n\n\n\n\n" ForeColor="black" BackColor="white" BackStyle="opaque" BorderColor="black" BorderWidth="0" X="center" Y="center" Width="100%" Height="100%" XAlign="center" YAlign="center" AlignHorizontal="center" AlignVertical="center" FontName="Courier New" FontSize="18" FontBold="Yes" FontItalic="No" FontUnderline="No" FontStrikeout="No" WordWrap=1 ClearAfter="No" Duration="1000" JumpLabel="" TimingMode=0 PreRelease="0" OnsetSync=1 OffsetSync=0 Name="Fixation" TypeName="TextDisplay" Tag="" Notes="" [Object6] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("Up").Log=-1 Logging("Right").Log=-1 Logging("Down").Log=-1 Logging("Left").Log=-1 Logging("Stimulus").Log=-1 Logging("CorrectAnswer").Log=-1 _ItemList="TrialProc" _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Order=0 OrderBy=0 ResetEveryRun=0 HideLevelsWithZeroWeight=0 CycleDef=0 CycleValueSamples=0 CycleValueCondition="" ExitDef=0 ExitValueCycles=1 ExitValueSamples=1 ExitValueSeconds=0 ExitValueCondition="" LoadMethod=2 Filename="" UserAttributes=6 Attributes("Weight").DefaultValue="1" Attributes("Weight").Visible=1 Attributes("Weight").Width=43 Attributes("Weight").OrderIndex=0 Attributes("Procedure").DefaultValue="TrialProc" Attributes("Procedure").Visible=1 Attributes("Procedure").Width=75 Attributes("Procedure").OrderIndex=1 Attributes("Nested").DefaultValue="" Attributes("Nested").Visible=1 Attributes("Nested").Width=75 Attributes("Nested").OrderIndex=2 Attributes(1).Name="Up" Attributes(1).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(1).VarType=8 Attributes(1).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(1).Visible=1 Attributes(1).Width=48 Attributes(2).Name="Right" Attributes(2).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(2).VarType=8 Attributes(2).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(2).Visible=1 Attributes(2).Width=50 Attributes(3).Name="Down" Attributes(3).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(3).VarType=8 Attributes(3).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(3).Visible=1 Attributes(3).Width=45 Attributes(4).Name="Left" Attributes(4).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(4).VarType=8 Attributes(4).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(4).Visible=1 Attributes(4).Width=47 Attributes(5).Name="Stimulus" Attributes(5).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(5).VarType=8 Attributes(5).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(5).Visible=1 Attributes(5).Width=75 Attributes(6).Name="CorrectAnswer" Attributes(6).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(6).VarType=8 Attributes(6).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(6).Visible=1 Attributes(6).Width=75 Levels=4 Levels(1).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t*\t\t\t\tUp\tUp\t" Levels(2).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t\t*\t\t\tRight\tRight\t" Levels(3).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t\t\t*\t\tDown\tDown\t" Levels(4).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t\t\t\t*\tLeft\tLeft\t" Name="TrialList" TypeName="List" Tag="" Notes="" [Object7] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _ItemList="Fixation;Stimulus;DoHitTest;Feedback" _VersionPersist=1 FlowLines(0).Count=4 FlowLines(0).FlowItem(0).Name="Fixation" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(1).Name="Stimulus" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(2).Name="DoHitTest" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(3).Name="Feedback" LogData=1 Name="TrialProc" TypeName="Procedure" Tag="" Notes="" [Object8] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 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States("Default").Objects(5).BackStyle="opaque" States("Default").Objects(5).BorderWidth="0" States("Default").Objects(5).BorderColor="black" States("Default").Objects(5).XAlign="center" States("Default").Objects(5).YAlign="center" States("Default").Objects(5).SourceColorKey="black" States("Default").Objects(5).UseSourceColorKey="No" States("Default").Objects(5).Name="Image1" Duration="10000" JumpLabel="" TimingMode=0 PreRelease="0" OnsetSync=1 OffsetSync=0 Name="Stimulus" TypeName="Slide" Tag="" Notes="" [Data1] DeviceName="Mouse" DeviceClass="Mouse" AllowableInput="{ANY}" CorrectInput="" TimeLimit="" MaxCount="1" InputAction=1 SyncOwnerDuration=1 Enabled=1 FlushInputBuffer="Yes" TerminationInput="" UserTag="" [Object9] _Version=131072 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _VersionPersist=1 Code="\n\t'Designate \"theState\" as the Default Slide State, which is the \n\t'current, ActiveState on the Slide object \"Stimulus\"\n\tDim theState as SlideState\n\tSet theState = Stimulus.States(\"Default\")\n\n\tDim strHit As String\n\tDim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData\n\n\n\t'Was there a response?\n\tIf Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then\n\n\t\t'Get the mouse response\n\t\tSet theMouseResponseData = CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))\n\n\t\t'Determine string name of SlideImage or SlideText object at \n\t\t'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit\n\t\tstrHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, theMouseResponseData.CursorY)\n\n\t\t'Compare string name where mouse click occurred to CorrectAnswer\n\t\t'attribute on each trial, and score response\n\t\t'NOTE: This comparison is case sensitive\n\t\tIf strHit = c.GetAttrib(\"CorrectAnswer\") Then\n\t\t Stimulus.ACC = 1\n\t\tElse\n\t\t Stimulus.ACC = 0\t\n\t\tEnd If\n\n\tEnd If\n\n\n\n\n" Name="DoHitTest" TypeName="InLine" Tag="" Notes="" [Object10] _Version=131072 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _VersionPersist=1 Code="'Make mouse cursor visible at run-time\nMouse.ShowCursor true\n\n" Name="ShowCursor" TypeName="InLine" Tag="" Notes="" [Object11] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 _VersionPersist=1 States("Correct").X="center" States("Correct").Y="center" States("Correct").Width="100%" States("Correct").Height="100%" States("Correct").XAlign="center" States("Correct").YAlign="center" States("Correct").BackColor="white" States("Correct").BackStyle="opaque" States("Correct").BorderColor="black" States("Correct").BorderWidth="0" States("Correct").ClearAfter="No" States("Correct").Enabled="Yes" States("Correct").ChildCount=3 States("Correct").Objects(1).Type="Text" States("Correct").Objects(1).Text="Correct!" 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Name: ResponseAreasForMouseInput.zip Type: application/zip Size: 9201 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:39:40 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Private] Re: Buttons In-Reply-To: <4b87f521.5844f10a.55d0.179aSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Arrgh! My apologies to all! I forgot to change the "To" address for that to just go to Gilis, as intended. But I suppose he will get it now. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/26/2010 11:20 AM Friday, you wrote: >[Private e-mail] > >Gilis, > >I have attached the .zip file from PST, plus the extracted .es file. > >-- dkm > > >>thanks, >>I tried to open this example : >>http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 >>however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the >>first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and >>after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, >>only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a >>txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me >>whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a >>readable file... >>Best Wishes >>Gilis >> >>On 26 ×¤×‘×¨×•× ×¨, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: >> > Gilis, >> > >> > Standard reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff >> > really does like to take any and all >> questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they >> > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  So don't be shy >> > there.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please >> > extend the courtesy of posting their reply >> back here for the sake of others. >> > >> > That said, here is my take ... >> > >> > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the >> > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the >> > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which >> > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help.  Also, if you look at the >> > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of >> > how to use this. >> > >> > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over >> > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, >> > Nobel prize-winning physicist) >> > >> > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an >> > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly >> > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that >> > >with buttons. >> > >> > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object >> > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will >> > >have to choose one of those. However, my research  involved with >> > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to >> > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. >> > >> > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design >> > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit >> > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to >> > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet >> > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and >> > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to >> > >learn it soon. >> > >> > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:43:43 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:43 -0500 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <4b87f497.5844f10a.596f.18c2SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Double arrgh! Now I have to send another message just to change the discussion topic back to "Buttons". I hate it when Google Groups does this! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 1 13:13:19 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:13:19 -0000 Subject: resolution problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Though I am not entirely certain, this seems very unlikely, and even if it would be possible, the answer would take much longer than just changing your entire experiment back in lower resolution. You might be able to use a lot of canvas script, for instance, writing everything to a buffer that is larger than your real screen, and when the moment arrives to write it back to screen, just take the central part. Obviously, this would crop your pictures (from 1200 x 800, say, the central 1024 x 762 part), and apart from that, it would take *a lot* of script. The problem is this: if you can't get Windows to operate in a certain screen mode, there seems little reason to think E-Prime can - as much as E-Prime is possible to refresh at 120 Hz when the monitor only goes to 100 Hz. Instead, go to device properties, display device, and use the highest resolution available for your laptop - perhaps 1024 x 762 (like my laptop, but granted, it's a bit old)? I expect E-Prime 2 isn't able either to set the resolution to wide screen resolutions like your lab computers (1.2 only shows width options like 640, 800, 1024), or am I mistaken there? Anyway, short answer: sorry but no. Just use display device properties that both testing and programming devices support. Enlarge pictures that are too small. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Travis Nichols, Villanova University Sent: 31 January 2010 04:03 To: E-Prime Subject: resolution problems Hello all, So I programmed my project on one of the university lab computers and will test subjects from a laptop. The problem is that the computers have different screen sizes and resolutions. The program was working great on the programming computer but does not transfer well to the laptop which has a much higher resolution (so the pictures displayed in slide objects are too small). I have gone into the experiment-->device-->display settings, but the offered resolutions don't match those available on the testing laptop (I'm trying to get 1280 x 800). When I try and select those closest to the laptop resolution it crashes the running experiment saying it can't set that resolution. Is there any way to manually (like in-code or something) set the screen resolution to that of my testing laptop? Thanks, Travis Villanova University -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 1 13:18:10 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:18:10 -0000 Subject: Help!!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, No problem! I'm afraid no 'dot-probe' paradigm is covered (mainly because neither Rinus nor I ever used it), but the deal about learning programming in any environment is *practice practice practice*. That is also pretty much the answer to your later question. Let us know exactly where you get stuck, programming-wise (rather than paradigm-wise). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of scarpais Sent: 29 January 2010 17:26 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Help!!!!! Hi Mich, Sorry - I have just managed to locate the file via the web address and it is working fine. It looks fantastic - thanks so much again Anna On Jan 29, 11:41?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > That's OK, there's a particularly fancy Step-By-Step 'how to learn E-Prime if you're about as good at programming as the average psychotherapist you still know from your undergrads':http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf > Our students seemed to like it... it contains a number of experimental paradigms, the idea being that if you work through the book, you ought to be able to read an experimental psychological paper and replicate the experiment. > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of scarpais > Sent: 29 January 2010 09:31 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Help!!!!! > > Hi > > I have had only one short session on EPrime and have been left with > the task of designing my own experiment using this software. However, > the only tools I have are a guide that tells you how to do one > particular type of experiment :( I have no idea how to set up my own > and have searched EVERYWHERE in order to do so. Can anyone help? I am > such a beginner I need a step by step guide! > > My design is simple. I would like to investigate attentional bias > towards emotional stimuli: faces & words. I would like to investigate > this using a dot probe task. Therefore I would like the pictures to > appear side by side: one neutral & one emotional, followed by the > presence of the dot upon which participants must identify where it has > appeared. I would like to measure both accuracy and response times. > Following this, I would like to do the same but with neutral versus > emotional words. > > Lastly, I would like it so that one half of participants complete the > faces trial first and the other half, do the words part first. I would > also like the words and face stimuli to be randomised amongst > participants. > > As I say I have a design but I have no idea what to do and would > really, really appreciate the help. > > Thanks > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 14:11:42 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:11:42 -0800 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds Message-ID: Hi together, I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before some seconds are over. Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then can proceed to the next screen. Any ideas? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 14:47:46 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 06:47:46 -0800 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds In-Reply-To: <72c0be7e-714e-4c34-a026-1acf54982b3c@l19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: By far the most simple would be to have two subsequent slides, one with the instruction text and a fixed duration (i.e. 15 seconds) that will then be replaced by a second close to identical slide, that has the additional 'press key to continue' text and is set to terminate on a response... But err yeah... that almost seems too easy doesn't it ;) Best, liw On Feb 1, 3:11 pm, Tobias wrote: > Hi together, > > I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions > to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the > text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before > some seconds are over. > > Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a > certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text > after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then > can proceed to the next screen. > > Any ideas? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 15:02:19 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 07:02:19 -0800 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds In-Reply-To: <952af2f4-5305-4063-bb18-3fe62bcebde1@19g2000yql.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I guess that would be to easy. Well I see, it works - anyway, is there an easier way? I sometimes like it more sophisticated ;) On 1 Feb., 15:47, liwenna wrote: > By far the most simple would be to have two subsequent slides, one > with the instruction text and a fixed duration (i.e. 15 seconds) that > will then be replaced by a second close to identical slide, that has > the additional 'press key to continue' text and is set to terminate on > a response... > > But err yeah... that almost seems too easy doesn't it ;) > > Best, > > liw > > On Feb 1, 3:11 pm, Tobias wrote: > > > Hi together, > > > I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions > > to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the > > text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before > > some seconds are over. > > > Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a > > certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text > > after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then > > can proceed to the next screen. > > > Any ideas? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 16:15:54 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 08:15:54 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT Message-ID: Hi everybody, I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So far I have only had limited success although I think it should be pretty simple to do what I need. On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick movement to be recorded to the data file. It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do this type of thing? Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very appreciated. Thanks! Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 17:00:21 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:00:21 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <6ced274a-611e-4a89-bee3-e82334ce9c2c@n33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > pretty simple to do what I need. > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > this type of thing? > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > appreciated. > > Thanks! > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 20:02:01 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:02:01 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <7587d46a-ce63-4f6c-b16f-9fa645e5e067@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. On Feb 1, 11:00?am, liwenna wrote: > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > Hi everybody, > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > this type of thing? > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. ?Although I don't like > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > appreciated. > > > Thanks! > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dolphin2002 at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 20:59:47 2010 From: dolphin2002 at gmail.com (CT_Robert) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:59:47 -0800 Subject: Dual Task design Message-ID: Hi All, I am new to E-Prime, and I've been through a few of the tutorials. I think I need some advice on how to set-up the following design with 2 tasks. 1) Task 1. Conditioned Fear. Subject hears one of two distinct tones. Each tone is on for 7.5s. For TONE1, after the 7.5s, a loud aversive tone is played for 500ms (CS+). For TONE2, after the 7.5s, no tone is played (CS-). There is a 10s ITI between these tones occurring. 2) Task 2. Go/No-Go Task. Participant sees an X or a K in the middle of the screen. Participant is to press the space bar when he sees an X and to withhold responding when he sees a K. These are on for 500ms and have a jittered ITI. This task should occur thoughout both conditions of Task 1 as well as during the ITI. The goal is to see how performance on the Go/No-Go task is affected by the increased arousal seen in the fearful condition (TONE1), so I will compare responding during TONE1 and TONE2. I somebody could give me some design advice, I will give it a try and return if I encounter problems. Offhand, I am trying Trial Procedure with two Slides, 1 auditory, 1 visual. But, they seem to proceed sequentiall. So, my 7.5s Auditory stimulus plays completely before moving on to the GoNoGo stimulus. I'd like the Auditory to start, and then move on to the next slide in the Procedure. But, perhaps this is a bad approach? Advice? Thanks so much. Robert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 1 21:08:39 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:08:39 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for forgiving me. Unfortunately that's also where my knowledge in implementing joysticks ends... I hope with you that someone else knows the trick. On Feb 1, 9:02?pm, Nick wrote: > I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > On Feb 1, 11:00?am, liwenna wrote: > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > this type of thing? > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. ?Although I don't like > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > appreciated. > > > > Thanks! > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 1 21:08:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:08:29 -0500 Subject: "continue" only possible after x seconds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: liw indeed gave you the easy way. But if you want a more complicated way, here you go... (1) Put up your instruction Slide for, let's say, 15 seconds, taking no response. Follow that with a Wait object with infinite Duration that does get a response with an End Action of Terminate. Your subject will see the instructions for 15 s, then the instructions will simply remain until they respond to the Wait. (2) Or, as above, put up your instruction Slide for 15 s, taking no response. This time follow it with another Slide or TextDisplay that adds only the "press key to continue" and then gets a response as above -- if you fiddle with the Frame Width, Height, X, Y, and BackStyle transparent you can overlay your new display without disturbing the earlier instruction display. I have done this to create all sorts of effects myself. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Yeah, I guess that would be to easy. Well I see, it works - anyway, is >there an easier way? I sometimes like it more sophisticated ;) > >On 1 Feb., 15:47, liwenna wrote: > > By far the most simple would be to have two subsequent slides, one > > with the instruction text and a fixed duration (i.e. 15 seconds) that > > will then be replaced by a second close to identical slide, that has > > the additional 'press key to continue' text and is set to terminate on > > a response... > > > > But err yeah... that almost seems too easy doesn't it ;) > > > > Best, > > > > liw > > > > On Feb 1, 3:11 pm, Tobias wrote: > > > > > Hi together, > > > > > I think I have a rather simple problem: I want to display instructions > > > to a task on the screen. As participants should carefully read the > > > text, I don't want them to already continue to the next slide before > > > some seconds are over. > > > > > Is there a way of allowing people only to press buttons after a > > > certain period of time? The best would be to have an additional text > > > after x seconds saying "press key to continue" and subjects only then > > > can proceed to the next screen. > > > > > Any ideas? > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 1 21:21:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:21:29 -0500 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless thoughts. If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick that used good quality micro switches. These gave simple off-on switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or corner. Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital I/O card. Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the ReadPort function from script. Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating system got out of our way... -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > this type of thing? > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > appreciated. > > > > > Thanks! > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:12:09 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:12:09 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4b630e69.5244f10a.078e.4caaSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hmm, on further thought (without benefit of getting StartupInfo files to work yet myself) I think that, in order to have each student's data files go into a separate directory, you would still need to give each student their own copy of the experiment program along with a mated StartupInfo file. This still seems rather clumsy -- among other things every time you revised the experiment program you would have to redo all the copies for each student, and you could accomplish much the same end without StartupInfo files just by giving each student their own directory containing their own copy of the experiment program. So I might have to retract a bit of my earlier enthusiasm for the StartupInfo file mechansism. (BTW, the "New Features Guide" that went out with EP2.0.8.73 has the wrong figure for section 1.6.2.1 about the StartupInfo Editor. Matt at PST kindly sent me his original (and correct) version of that section, and I posted that at http://www.pstnet.com/forum/Topic4015-6-1.aspx for everyone.) But now the good news -- I totally cracked this longstanding problem! (Or did I just fail to do a proper search of the archive?). It's not even that hard, and we had the clues all along in the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. I will post my solution in a separate thread with a title like "How to use a custom data file or path name." -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On 29 Jan 2010 David McFarlane wrote: > Liza, > > OK, now that I have looked at the documentation, I can say that the > StartupInfo file absolutely addresses your original question, i.e., it > provides a fine mechanism for managing the data file name and path in > any way you like, and many more things besides. Your programs can even > modify the StartupInfo file with your own script. Think of the > possibilities! Every once in a while PST gets something right, and this > looks like one of those times. It's just too bad that they are so > stingy in releasing the information. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:16:24 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:16:24 -0500 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: How to use a custom data file or path name In-Reply-To: <4b630e69.5244f10a.078e.4caaSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: E-Prime automatically puts data files into the same directory as the .ebs (or .ebs2) file, and gives each one a name of the form Experiment>--.edat (or .edat2). But what if you want to customize the file name, or change the path to put data files in a chosen directory location? You can do this by taking control of the Context.Datafile object, which you may learn about in the online E-Basic Help or from the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. You would then add the appropriate inline code as the first thing in your SessionProc. Here is an example script that you may build on. For the sake of this example we ask the experimenter for their initials (and then add that to the file name), though in practice we would more likely make this a StartupInfo parameter. ' Close data file already started in the Main() routine. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Close Kill c.DataFile.FileName ' might as well also delete it End If ' Construct new file or path name any way you like. You may want to ' add code to deal with potential problems such as existing (duplicate) ' or illegal file names and non-existent directories. Dim exptrID as String exptrID = AskBox( "Enter experimenter initials:" ) c.DataFile.Filename = c.GetAttrib("Experiment") & "-" & exptrID & "-" _ & c.GetAttrib("Subject") & "-" & c.GetAttrib("Session") & ".txt" ' Start new data file. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Open c.LogHeader End If Note that this method uses ordinary features of E-Prime and should work with every version going back to 1.0. A couple of warnings: First, if you use this to change the data path, pay attention to the use of forward slashes ("/") vs. backslashes ("\") as path separators in E-Prime strings, as discussed at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2336-12-1.aspx and elsewhere. Second, without care you could easily lose data doing this, so do not do this unless you know what you are doing and can enforce the proper safeguards. -- David McFarlane, E-Prime Master & Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:22:53 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:22:53 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4B678AF8.1070004@msu.edu> Message-ID: Arrgh! How did that happen? Somehow my last post changed the name of this thread, now I am just trying to set it back, darn this Mozilla Thunderbird, this never happens with Eudora! Then I have to repost my "Mastering E-Prime" as a separate thread. So sorry for the mess! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:27:37 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:27:37 -0500 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: How to use a custom data file or path name Message-ID: E-Prime automatically puts data files into the same directory as the .ebs (or .ebs2) file, and gives each one a name of the form --.edat (or .edat2). But what if you want to customize the file name, or change the path to put data files in a chosen directory location? You can do this by taking control of the Context.Datafile object, which you may learn about in the online E-Basic Help or from the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. You would then add the appropriate inline code as the first thing in your SessionProc. Here is an example script that you may build on. For the sake of this example we ask the experimenter for their initials (and then add that to the file name), though in practice we would more likely make this a StartupInfo parameter. ' Close data file already started in the Main() routine. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Close Kill c.DataFile.FileName ' might as well also delete it End If ' Construct new file or path name any way you like. You may want to ' add code to deal with potential problems such as existing (duplicate) ' or illegal file names and non-existent directories. Dim exptrID as String exptrID = AskBox( "Enter experimenter initials:" ) c.DataFile.Filename = c.GetAttrib("Experiment") & "-" & exptrID & "-" _ & c.GetAttrib("Subject") & "-" & c.GetAttrib("Session") & ".txt" ' Start new data file. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Open c.LogHeader End If Note that this method uses ordinary features of E-Prime and should work with every version going back to 1.0. A couple of warnings: First, if you use this to change the data path, pay attention to the use of forward slashes ("/") vs. backslashes ("\") as path separators in E-Prime strings, as discussed at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2336-12-1.aspx and elsewhere. Second, without care you could easily lose data doing this, so do not do this unless you know what you are doing and can enforce the proper safeguards. -- David McFarlane, E-Prime Master & Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 02:34:26 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 21:34:26 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4B678D99.1070306@msu.edu> Message-ID: Triple arrgh! The system is simply cursed tonight, every time I try to post something it changes the name of this thread again!!! So I will try to restore it once more and let it rest for tonight, then I will try again tomorrow morning after the gremlins have gone to rest. So, so sorry to everyone for the mess. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 10:23:12 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:23:12 -0800 Subject: Dual Task design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hurray and rejoice! The broken 'search this group' function seems to be fixed! Robert I never did dual taks design so no first-hand help here. But I went searching for a thread on dual task design that I remembered and it turns out that there have been many threads on dual task design. You can find them all here: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/search?group=e-prime&q=dual+task&qt_g=Search+this+group Enjoy! liw On Feb 1, 9:59?pm, CT_Robert wrote: > Hi All, > I am new to E-Prime, and I've been through a few of the tutorials. ?I > think I need some advice on how to set-up the following design with 2 > tasks. > > 1) Task 1. ?Conditioned Fear. ?Subject hears one of two distinct > tones. ?Each tone is on for 7.5s. ?For TONE1, after the 7.5s, a loud > aversive tone is played for 500ms (CS+). ?For TONE2, after the 7.5s, > no tone is played (CS-). ?There is a 10s ITI between these tones > occurring. > > 2) Task 2. Go/No-Go Task. ?Participant sees an X or a K in the middle > of the screen. ?Participant is to press the space bar when he sees an > X and to withhold responding when he sees a K. ?These are on for 500ms > and have a jittered ITI. ?This task should occur thoughout both > conditions of Task 1 as well as during the ITI. > > The goal is to see how performance on the Go/No-Go task is affected by > the increased arousal seen in the fearful condition (TONE1), so I will > compare responding during TONE1 and TONE2. > > I somebody could give me some design advice, I will give it a try and > return if I encounter problems. ?Offhand, I am trying ?Trial Procedure > with two Slides, 1 auditory, 1 visual. ?But, they seem to proceed > sequentiall. ?So, my 7.5s Auditory stimulus plays completely before > moving on to the GoNoGo stimulus. ?I'd like the Auditory to start, and > then move on to the next slide in the Procedure. > > But, perhaps this is a bad approach? ?Advice? > > Thanks so much. > > Robert -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk Tue Feb 2 10:45:49 2010 From: liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk (LizaM) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:45:49 -0800 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4B6789F9.9040600@msu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks for a very comprehensive post there David - I will peruse that when I have a little more time... Many Thanks Liza On Feb 2, 2:12?am, David McFarlane wrote: > Hmm, on further thought (without benefit of getting StartupInfo files to > work yet myself) I think that, in order to have each student's data > files go into a separate directory, you would still need to give each > student their own copy of the experiment program along with a mated > StartupInfo file. ?This still seems rather clumsy -- among other things > every time you revised the experiment program you would have to redo all > the copies for each student, and you could accomplish much the same end > without StartupInfo files just by giving each student their own > directory containing their own copy of the experiment program. ?So I > might have to retract a bit of my earlier enthusiasm for the StartupInfo > file mechansism. > > (BTW, the "New Features Guide" that went out with EP2.0.8.73 has the > wrong figure for section 1.6.2.1 about the StartupInfo Editor. ?Matt at > PST kindly sent me his original (and correct) version of that section, > and I posted that athttp://www.pstnet.com/forum/Topic4015-6-1.aspxfor > everyone.) > > But now the good news -- I totally cracked this longstanding problem! > (Or did I just fail to do a proper search of the archive?). ?It's not > even that hard, and we had the clues all along in the code that E-Studio > generates for the Main() routine. ?I will post my solution in a separate > thread with a title like "How to use a custom data file or path name." > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On 29 Jan 2010 David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Liza, > > > OK, now that I have looked at the documentation, I can say that the > > StartupInfo file absolutely addresses your original question, i.e., it > > provides a fine mechanism for managing the data file name and path in > > any way you like, and many more things besides. ?Your programs can even > > modify the StartupInfo file with your own script. ?Think of the > > possibilities! ?Every once in a while PST gets something right, and this > > looks like one of those times. ?It's just too bad that they are so > > stingy in releasing the information.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk Tue Feb 2 10:50:27 2010 From: liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk (LizaM) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:50:27 -0800 Subject: Selecting randomly which list object from one of 2 lists is shown on each position on a slide... Message-ID: Hello, In the experiment I am currently programming the student has 2 sets of images - a male face list and a female face list. I have made these into 2 list objects. I have created as slide object with 2 image displays on it and currently I have male faces displaying on the left and female on the right.... I want the EPrime file to randomly select whether the images are displayed male left, female right, or male right, female left so that we don't get an effect from one set of images always being on the one side - how can I achieve this??? Many Thanks Liza -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 11:04:17 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 03:04:17 -0800 Subject: Selecting randomly which list object from one of 2 lists is shown on each position on a slide... In-Reply-To: <8e7d6f03-03c1-4a92-a387-e725a1b8d344@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: The positions of the images are determined by the x and y value of the imageobjects. These are either pixels (i.e. x = 250 = 250th pixel from the left side of the screen) or percentages (f.i 25% and 75%). Create a 'positionslist' with two attributes 'posimage1' and 'posimage2' and put your current values of x in this list i.e level 1 posimage1= 25% and posimage2 = 75% and the other way around on the second level. Randomize the list. Nest this somewhere into your triallist (I would suggest to merge your current two lists into 1 list again with two separate attributes for image1 and image2). Lastly tell your imageobjects to get their x values from the attributes [posimage1] and [posimage2]. Done. best, liw On Feb 2, 11:50?am, LizaM wrote: > Hello, > > In the experiment I am currently programming the student has 2 sets of > images - a male face list and a female face list. ?I have made these > into 2 list objects. ?I have created as slide object with 2 image > displays on it and currently I have male faces displaying on the left > and female on the right.... ?I want the EPrime file to randomly select > whether the images are displayed male left, female right, or male > right, female left so that we don't get an ?effect from one set of > images always being on the one side - how can I achieve this??? > > Many Thanks > > Liza -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 14:27:06 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:27:06 -0500 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: How to use a custom data file or path name Message-ID: E-Prime automatically puts data files into the same directory as the .ebs (or .ebs2) file, and gives each one a name of the form --.edat (or .edat2). But what if you want to customize the file name, or change the path to put data files in a chosen directory location? You can do this by taking control of the Context.Datafile object, which you may learn about in the online E-Basic Help or from the code that E-Studio generates for the Main() routine. You would then add the appropriate inline code as the first thing in your SessionProc. Here is an example script that you may build on. For the sake of this example we ask the experimenter for their initials (and then add that to the file name), though in practice we would more likely make this a StartupInfo parameter. ' Close data file already started in the Main() routine. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Close Kill c.DataFile.FileName ' might as well also delete it End If ' Construct new file or path name any way you like. You may want to ' add code to deal with potential problems such as existing (duplicate) ' or illegal file names and non-existent directories. Dim exptrID as String exptrID = AskBox( "Enter experimenter initials:" ) c.DataFile.Filename = c.GetAttrib("Experiment") & "-" & exptrID & "-" _ & c.GetAttrib("Subject") & "-" & c.GetAttrib("Session") & ".txt" ' Start new data file. If CLng(c.GetAttrib("Subject")) <> 0 Then c.DataFile.Open c.LogHeader End If Note that this method uses ordinary features of E-Prime and should work with every version going back to 1.0. A couple of warnings: First, if you use this to change the data path, pay attention to the use of forward slashes ("/") vs. backslashes ("\") as path separators in E-Prime strings, as discussed at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic2336-12-1.aspx and elsewhere. Second, without care you could easily lose data doing this, so do not do this unless you know what you are doing and can enforce the proper safeguards. -- David McFarlane, E-Prime Master & Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 14:31:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:31:10 -0500 Subject: Specifying output data file location? In-Reply-To: <4b683655.5344f10a.7863.28ceSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Very sorry to all for my multiple posts. I finally got Google Groups to accept my start of a new thread, now just restoring the original title of this thread. That should do it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 16:05:16 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:05:16 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <4b6745f2.5344f10a.7863.ffffe740SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Thanks for the interesting suggestion. I think we're kinda locked into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near future having never done anything like that before. The frustrating thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first direction & RT by any chance? On Feb 1, 3:21?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > thoughts. ?If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > that used good quality micro switches. ?These gave simple off-on > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > corner. ?Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > I/O card. ?Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > ReadPort function from script. > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > system got out of our way... > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. ?Although I don't like > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > appreciated. > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 16:27:39 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 11:27:39 -0500 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nick, Fair question, and sadly the answer is no, I have not yet had any experience whatsoever with modern joysticks in E-Prime. And if the past is any guide, my saying that means that, almost certainly, one of the labs here is just about to bring me such a project... But hey, as I keep saying, that's what PST Web Support is for, so please contact them post haste at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. And if you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please do us all the favor of posting their reply back here. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/2/2010 11:05 AM Tuesday, Nick wrote: >Hi David, > >Thanks for the interesting suggestion. I think we're kinda locked >into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we >have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that >I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near >future having never done anything like that before. The frustrating >thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except >for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- >line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first >direction & RT by any chance? > >On Feb 1, 3:21 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > > thoughts. If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > > that used good quality micro switches. These gave simple off-on > > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > > corner. Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > > I/O card. Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > > ReadPort function from script. > > > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > > system got out of our way... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 2 16:41:10 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 08:41:10 -0800 Subject: nested list according to startup information Message-ID: Hi there, some time ago I asked here in the forum how to specify a correct response according to startup information (such as group, session etc.). A solution similar to this was suggested (I think by liwenna): If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 then c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespA") elseif c.getattrib ("group") = 2 then c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespB") end if Well that worked perfectly. However, this time I don't want to specifiy the correct response but which nested list is called from another list. This doesn't seem to work similarly, probably because an attribute in the list (i.e. "nested") refering to a variable, e.g. [listA] tries to already call a list before an inline can deliver that information. Any ideas how to solve that problem? THanks a lot, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 2 17:34:50 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:34:50 -0500 Subject: nested list according to startup information In-Reply-To: <2d569a85-fb3b-4221-ae56-8e016aae7486@a5g2000yqi.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Tobias, Hmm, just out of curiousity I threw together a quick demo, took me all of 10 minutes, I had no trouble using an attribute reference to name a nested List. I will send you my little EP1 demo program privately. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi there, > >some time ago I asked here in the forum how to specify a correct >response according to startup information (such as group, session >etc.). A solution similar to this was suggested (I think by liwenna): > >If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 then > c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespA") > elseif c.getattrib ("group") = 2 then > c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespB") >end if > > >Well that worked perfectly. However, this time I don't want to >specifiy the correct response but which nested list is called from >another list. >This doesn't seem to work similarly, probably because an attribute in >the list (i.e. "nested") refering to a variable, e.g. [listA] tries to >already call a list before an inline can deliver that information. > >Any ideas how to solve that problem? > >THanks a lot, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From shivani.shivipr at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 06:33:50 2010 From: shivani.shivipr at gmail.com (Shivani R) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:33:50 -0800 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help Message-ID: Hi, I am designing an experiment using E Prime. In this experiment an image comes up on the screen, the subject has to make a decision if the image was a target or distractor. I need to send a trigger at the instant when the picture comes up on the screen. Also I need to send a trigger to say if it was a target or distractor image. I have been trying to do this but not getting it the way I want. The trigger is coming at the instant the fixation comes up on the screen whereas I want the trigger at the instant the picture comes up on the screen. I read some previous posts on the same topic and tried putting my logic in the same way but to no use. Right now I am using the following code: "Fixation" is the object which displays the fixation and "Stimulus" is the object which displays the picture. I have two parallel ports avaialble in my PC - &H378 and &HCCE0. In the TrialList I have an attribute named as "Type" which tells if the image is a target or distractor. Inline1 is as follows: Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = &H01 Inline2 is as follows: If c.GetAttrib("Type") = Target Then WritePort &HCCE0, 1 ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Type") = Distractor Then WritePort &HCCE0, 2 End If The main problem I am facing is regarding the position of the inline script. Right now I have placed the Inline1 just before the Stimulus object and Inline2 just after the Stimulus object. Please let me know where I am going wrong in the placement of the inline script. Any help is really appreciated. Regards Shivani -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at Wed Feb 3 08:34:47 2010 From: daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at (Daniela Pfabigan) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:34:47 +0100 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help In-Reply-To: <43f6757d-8b56-458f-8506-04e496356c9d@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, try the following lines Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 Instruktion.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("Type") Place this inline just before the object 'Stimulus'. Cheers, Daniela Shivani R schrieb: > Hi, > > I am designing an experiment using E Prime. In this experiment an > image comes up on the screen, the subject has to make a decision if > the image was a target or distractor. I need to send a trigger at the > instant when the picture comes up on the screen. Also I need to send a > trigger to say if it was a target or distractor image. I have been > trying to do this but not getting it the way I want. The trigger is > coming at the instant the fixation comes up on the screen whereas I > want the trigger at the instant the picture comes up on the screen. I > read some previous posts on the same topic and tried putting my logic > in the same way but to no use. > > Right now I am using the following code: > > "Fixation" is the object which displays the fixation and "Stimulus" is > the object which displays the picture. I have two parallel ports > avaialble in my PC - &H378 and &HCCE0. In the TrialList I have an > attribute named as "Type" which tells if the image is a target or > distractor. > > Inline1 is as follows: > > Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True > Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 > Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = &H01 > > Inline2 is as follows: > > If c.GetAttrib("Type") = Target Then > WritePort &HCCE0, 1 > ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Type") = Distractor Then > WritePort &HCCE0, 2 > End If > > The main problem I am facing is regarding the position of the inline > script. Right now I have placed the Inline1 just before the Stimulus > object and Inline2 just after the Stimulus object. Please let me know > where I am going wrong in the placement of the inline script. Any > help is really appreciated. > > > Regards > Shivani > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at Wed Feb 3 09:35:46 2010 From: daniela.pfabigan at univie.ac.at (Daniela Pfabigan) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:35:46 +0100 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help In-Reply-To: <4B693527.7070103@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: ...sorry, typo third line should be: Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("Type") > Hi, > > try the following lines > > Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True > > Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 > > Instruktion.OnsetSignalData = c.GetAttrib("Type") > > > > Place this inline just before the object 'Stimulus'. > > Cheers, > Daniela > > > > Shivani R schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> I am designing an experiment using E Prime. In this experiment an >> image comes up on the screen, the subject has to make a decision if >> the image was a target or distractor. I need to send a trigger at the >> instant when the picture comes up on the screen. Also I need to send a >> trigger to say if it was a target or distractor image. I have been >> trying to do this but not getting it the way I want. The trigger is >> coming at the instant the fixation comes up on the screen whereas I >> want the trigger at the instant the picture comes up on the screen. I >> read some previous posts on the same topic and tried putting my logic >> in the same way but to no use. >> >> Right now I am using the following code: >> >> "Fixation" is the object which displays the fixation and "Stimulus" is >> the object which displays the picture. I have two parallel ports >> avaialble in my PC - &H378 and &HCCE0. In the TrialList I have an >> attribute named as "Type" which tells if the image is a target or >> distractor. >> >> Inline1 is as follows: >> >> Stimulus.OnsetSignalEnabled = True >> Stimulus.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 >> Stimulus.OnsetSignalData = &H01 >> >> Inline2 is as follows: >> >> If c.GetAttrib("Type") = Target Then >> WritePort &HCCE0, 1 >> ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Type") = Distractor Then >> WritePort &HCCE0, 2 >> End If >> >> The main problem I am facing is regarding the position of the inline >> script. Right now I have placed the Inline1 just before the Stimulus >> object and Inline2 just after the Stimulus object. Please let me know >> where I am going wrong in the placement of the inline script. Any >> help is really appreciated. >> >> >> Regards >> Shivani >> >> > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk Wed Feb 3 11:00:33 2010 From: liza.mccarron at uwe.ac.uk (LizaM) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:00:33 -0800 Subject: Selecting randomly which list object from one of 2 lists is shown on each position on a slide... In-Reply-To: <5032f33b-da96-4ace-b104-b9e5068ec081@r6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: That works perfectly! Thank you very much :) Having used the same method to randomly select duration etc I should have extrapolated that would be the case! On Feb 2, 11:04?am, liwenna wrote: > The positions of the images are determined by the x and y value of the > imageobjects. These are either pixels (i.e. x = 250 = 250th pixel from > the left side of the screen) or percentages (f.i 25% and 75%). > Create a 'positionslist' with two attributes 'posimage1' and > 'posimage2' and put your current values of x in this list i.e level 1 > posimage1= 25% and posimage2 = 75% and the other way around on the > second level. Randomize the list. Nest this somewhere into your > triallist (I would suggest to merge your current two lists into 1 list > again with two separate attributes for image1 and image2). Lastly tell > your imageobjects to get their x values from the attributes > [posimage1] and [posimage2]. > > Done. > > best, > > liw > > On Feb 2, 11:50?am, LizaM wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > In the experiment I am currently programming the student has 2 sets of > > images - a male face list and a female face list. ?I have made these > > into 2 list objects. ?I have created as slide object with 2 image > > displays on it and currently I have male faces displaying on the left > > and female on the right.... ?I want the EPrime file to randomly select > > whether the images are displayed male left, female right, or male > > right, female left so that we don't get an ?effect from one set of > > images always being on the one side - how can I achieve this??? > > > Many Thanks > > > Liza- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 11:45:41 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:45:41 -0800 Subject: nested list according to startup information In-Reply-To: <4b68627b.5944f10a.0edf.29c8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David, thanks a lot for the files. It helped me finding my fault. I was using If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 or c.getattrib ("group") = 3 or c.getattrib ("group") = 5 or c.getattrib ("group") = 7 then c.setattrib "nested1", c.getattrib ("grouped") whereat "grouped" is not an attribute... that is why the error message came. Now it works, though. By the way: Apparently you are still using E-Prime 1. Is there a particular reason for that? Best, Tobias On 2 Feb., 18:34, David McFarlane wrote: > Tobias, > > Hmm, just out of curiousity I threw together a quick demo, took me > all of 10 minutes, I had no trouble using an attribute reference to > name a nested List. ?I will send you my little EP1 demo program privately. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >Hi there, > > >some time ago I asked here in the forum how to specify a correct > >response according to startup information (such as group, session > >etc.). A solution similar to this was suggested (I think by liwenna): > > >If c.getattrib ("group") = 1 then > > ? ? ? ?c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespA") > > ? ? ? ?elseif c.getattrib ("group") = 2 then > > ? ? ? ?c.setattrib "CorrectResponse", c.getattrib ("CorrectRespB") > >end if > > >Well that worked perfectly. However, this time I don't want to > >specifiy the correct response but which nested list is called from > >another list. > >This doesn't seem to work similarly, probably because an attribute in > >the list (i.e. "nested") refering to a variable, e.g. [listA] tries to > >already call a list before an inline can deliver that information. > > >Any ideas how to solve that problem? > > >THanks a lot, > >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Feb 3 11:19:10 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:19:10 -0000 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <4b6852a7.5944f10a.1178.2ecfSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, Well - I do actually have script that gets you to run an XBOX-360 controller (convenient, because they connect using USB and Microsoft tends to release source-code for drivers of such things) on one computer which then connects with a serial cable to another one running E-Prime? It's even able to send continuous data from the various buttons and sticks on the XBOX, AND can receive commands to make it vibrate! Groovy! Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 02 February 2010 16:28 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Joystick direction as response & RT Nick, Fair question, and sadly the answer is no, I have not yet had any experience whatsoever with modern joysticks in E-Prime. And if the past is any guide, my saying that means that, almost certainly, one of the labs here is just about to bring me such a project... But hey, as I keep saying, that's what PST Web Support is for, so please contact them post haste at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. And if you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please do us all the favor of posting their reply back here. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/2/2010 11:05 AM Tuesday, Nick wrote: >Hi David, > >Thanks for the interesting suggestion. I think we're kinda locked >into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we >have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that >I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near >future having never done anything like that before. The frustrating >thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except >for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- >line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first >direction & RT by any chance? > >On Feb 1, 3:21 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > > thoughts. If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > > that used good quality micro switches. These gave simple off-on > > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > > corner. Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > > I/O card. Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > > ReadPort function from script. > > > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > > system got out of our way... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. Although I don't like > > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Feb 3 14:53:59 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:53:59 -0500 Subject: nested list according to startup information In-Reply-To: <1e463246-259d-4912-b6fd-01ab2e1e3faa@s12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Tobias, > By the way: Apparently you are still using E-Prime 1. Is there a > particular reason for that? Glad you asked. Actually, I do work with both EP1 and EP2. But I reserve EP2 for just those times when it is required (e.g., playing movies, or for labs that have only EP2), and otherwise stick to EP1 for a few reasons. First, everything in EP1 has continued to work under Vista, whereas some features in EP2 did not (e.g., sound). Second, EP1 is more lightweight and snappy than EP2 -- e.g., when I hit F7 my program just runs, none of this "please wait while E-Prime initializes" nonsense every time I save, generate, or run a file. Third, and most germane to this context, EP1 is far superior for exploring how E-Basic works -- I can type complete tiny three-line programs into E-Run and run those instantly to see how any E-Basic statement actually works, no need to employ all the baggage of E-Studio and enter Subject, Session, etc. each time just to see how one line of code works. I have learned more about E-Basic through E-Run than by any other means, and I pity the rest of you who have been deprived of that by PST with EP2. Finally, I purposely choose the lowest common denominator for my little demo programs. If I wrote those in EP2 then only users with EP2 could benefit from them, but if I write in EP1 then everyone can benefit (until PST also takes that away, just as Microsoft now disables Office from reading their own earlier file formats). Just trying to be a good E-Prime citizen. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From shivani.shivipr at gmail.com Wed Feb 3 22:55:30 2010 From: shivani.shivipr at gmail.com (Shivani R) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 14:55:30 -0800 Subject: Parallel port communication - need help In-Reply-To: <4B694372.5030704@univie.ac.at> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks a lot for your reply. I am trying to put the above logic in my experiment. But I think that Stimulus.OnsetSignalData should be given some numerical value between 0 to 255. I guess it cannot be assigned equal to c.GetAttrib("Type"). I am trying to test this and will let you know the results. Thanks again Regards Shivani -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From roccorocks5 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 4 01:37:43 2010 From: roccorocks5 at yahoo.com (neuropsych76) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:37:43 -0800 Subject: Only certain slides appear Message-ID: I have a series of four slides and I'm trying to put them in random order. However, I only want one slide to appear per session and not the other 3 slides while the one slide appearing still being randomly selected. How would I do this? Thank you!! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Feb 4 10:10:54 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 02:10:54 -0800 Subject: Only certain slides appear In-Reply-To: <5d03dd3b-1a05-45dc-b868-9842e6e10754@o23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Take one slide and give it three extra 'states' call them a b c and d or whatever is convenient for you. Create each of your slides in one of the four slidestates. Create a slidestatelist with variable called f.i 'displaystate' and give it four levels with the values a b c and d. Randomise the list and nest the list in your triallist. In the properties of the slide make the slidestate refer to the variable displaystate by filling in [displaystate]. For each trial that slide will now show only one of the slidestates dependent on which level of the slidestatelist is selected. Best, liw On Feb 4, 2:37?am, neuropsych76 wrote: > I have a series of four slides and I'm trying to put them in random > order. However, I only want one slide to appear per session and not > the other 3 slides while the one slide appearing still being randomly > selected. How would I do this? > > Thank you!! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Feb 4 11:22:17 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:22:17 -0000 Subject: Only certain slides appear In-Reply-To: <5d03dd3b-1a05-45dc-b868-9842e6e10754@o23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, If I understand you correctly, which I somehow doubt, you have four slides, in random order, but only want one to appear? Why do you have four slides then? Perhaps you might want to go for one slide with four states (look up the activestate property), which is basically four sheets in one book (this is how I would explain it to students), with the selected state via counterbalanced, retrieved from an attribute. Without using different slidestates, you might also consider using four procedures, the particular one selected in a list, counterbalanced (thus also only one per session). Thirdly, you could go for a series of labels between the four slides such that only one is shown, the rest skipped. Fourth, you could merely run the slide you want with a little inline (e.g. Slide4.run). Anyway, many options, but lacking details of what you want exactly, you may find my advice completely off the mark... Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of neuropsych76 Sent: 04 February 2010 01:38 To: E-Prime Subject: Only certain slides appear I have a series of four slides and I'm trying to put them in random order. However, I only want one slide to appear per session and not the other 3 slides while the one slide appearing still being randomly selected. How would I do this? Thank you!! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nickfraenkel at googlemail.com Thu Feb 4 14:15:58 2010 From: nickfraenkel at googlemail.com (Nick F) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:15:58 -0800 Subject: SoundIn problems: "Unable to find sound capture device" Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying to set up an experiment using the SoundIn object to record participants' responses. The problem I'm having is that every time I try to run or generate, I receive the following error message: "A Fatal Error occurred while generating the initialization code for the E-Object named 'SoundIn1' Error Message: Unable to find sound capture device. Ensure that a sound capture device is available." I've tried with both an external USB audio-recording soundcard and the computer's internal soundcard, and I get the same error with both. There doesn't seem to be any problem with the soundcards: E-Prime's SoundOut object will play without complaint using either card, and I'm able to record audio input in software other than E-Prime. If anyone has any experience of getting E-Prime to work with audio input, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions as to what might work. Here is my set-up: E-Prime 2.0.8.22 Professional / Windows XP Edirol UA-25 USB soundcard Many Thanks, Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From scarpais at hotmail.co.uk Thu Feb 4 17:23:15 2010 From: scarpais at hotmail.co.uk (scarpais) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:23:15 -0800 Subject: Face Recognition Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi liw, Thank you so much for your quick response. I apologise for the late reply. In answer to your first comment, the teacher felt that given time constraints, it would be impossible to program this design (dot probe). I have little time in which to do this task! It is ostensibly a simple design from my point of you also but I know little about E Prime and I think that's what he was getting at. In answer to the following: Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > This is correct. Simple as you can see. Only again, the fact that I know little about E Prime is making the task impossible. I have now sat for hours trying to work out how to do this to no avail :( On Jan 31, 1:44?pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey Scarpais, > > Quite frankly I fail to see how a dot-probe is too problematic to > design using e-prime. E-prime is absolutely able to 'do it'. So... > could it be that your teacher actually tried to say that your set-up > was too complex for that specific assignment? I.e. a too complex > design for the given time? > > As for your new design: it seems about as complex as your intial > design was? Is what you describe the course of a single trial or the > complete test? I gather the latter? Then what would be the purpose of > response times? > > Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > > Well you had a basic lesson of e-prime so you're familiair with lists > and procedures. What you need are four lists on your testprocedure, > one for each type of stimulus (faces no interaciton, words no > interaction, words recognition and faces recognition) and a separate > procedure for each proc. Each procedure would hold a slide ?(or a text/ > imageobject) that shows the stimulus and has it's properties set to > the needs of that list. And perhaps some fancy extra's like a > trialinterval slide. It's really quite simple. > > Don't fear e-prime! Open your e-studio and simply start making the > first part of the experiment: faces passive viewing. Once you got that > you can add the words passive viewing and from there it's not hard to > create the faces and words recognitions lists and procedures. Just > take it step by step and I think you'll find that it's all far less > difficult than you think now. > > Also: Michiel's book is a really nice guide, and I read that you have > some other guides as well. Consult them when you're stuck but dont' > fear to just start fiddling around in e-studio. > > Good luck! > > liw > > On 30 jan, 11:16, scarpais wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > As a newcomer to E Prime I have been told that my proposed experiment > > is going to be too problematic to design using E Prime. My initial > > idea was to design a dot-probe task to measure response times and > > accuracy to the dot probe following paired presentations of a neutral > > vs. an emotional face (happy/sad) and also for neutral vs. emotional > > words. > > > I have went to some lengths however to get my stimuli and would like > > to design something based around this. I was thinking perhaps a face > > recognition task to investigate response times and accuracy once more. > > This time, the faces would be presented in the first instance, a > > mixture of both happy, sad and neutral but this time only one pic at a > > time. Following this, I would like to present a some words > > sequentially. Again these would be a mix of neutral and emotional > > words. > > > ?After this, I would like to present the target ?faces once more and > > also some face stimuli not included in the first part of the > > experiment and ask participants to state whether this face appeared in > > the first trial or not and then do the same again for the words. > > Measuring both accuracy and response times. > > > This doesn't sound too complicated to me but as a relatively new > > EPrimer I am clueless as to how to go about doing this. I have a > > couple of starting up guides with examples and wondered if anyone had > > an example/tutorial that would show me step by step how to do this > > particular type of experiment? If not, if anyone had any suggestions > > as to how I can do another experiment using this stimuli I'd be > > extremely grateful. > > > I have been informed that my task is to design an experiment using E > > Prime and that it does not matter if it is from an online example or > > tutorial as long as it is not one of the ones from the E Prime > > starting guide. > > > Thanks for reading this!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 4 19:02:29 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:02:29 -0500 Subject: SoundIn problems: "Unable to find sound capture device" In-Reply-To: <40332ea2-1c36-4928-b353-e727b0fb2ec5@r19g2000yqb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Nick, Please submit this to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. Then please do us a favor and post back here with the result. Also, you might try upgrading to EP2.0.8.73 (Pro), any registered user can download that for free from the PST web site. Glad to see that you are still on XP, many of us have had trouble running EP2 under Vista, and I have not gotten any confirmed reports yet on whether 2.0.8.73 or Win7 fix that. Thanks, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I'm trying to set up an experiment using the SoundIn object to record >participants' responses. The problem I'm having is that every time I >try to run or generate, I receive the following error message: > >"A Fatal Error occurred while generating the initialization code for >the E-Object named 'SoundIn1' >Error Message: Unable to find sound capture device. Ensure that a >sound capture device is available." > >I've tried with both an external USB audio-recording soundcard and the >computer's internal soundcard, and I get the same error with both. >There doesn't seem to be any problem with the soundcards: E-Prime's >SoundOut object will play without complaint using either card, and I'm >able to record audio input in software other than E-Prime. > >If anyone has any experience of getting E-Prime to work with audio >input, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions as to what might work. > >Here is my set-up: > >E-Prime 2.0.8.22 Professional / Windows XP >Edirol UA-25 USB soundcard > >Many Thanks, > >Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ndlange at gmail.com Thu Feb 4 22:10:26 2010 From: ndlange at gmail.com (Nick) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:10:26 -0800 Subject: Joystick direction as response & RT In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02B48F18@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi All, Below is the great solution I received from E-Prime support. Does exactly what I need it to, I hope it helps others as well. If you do not want subjects to press a button after moving the joystick to the desired position, you can simply access the cursor position directly instead of checking for a button press. This means that you should set the Duration of Stimulus to zero so that the script can be processed immediately; for an example of this method, please see SAMPLE:Process Responses Template. By constantly checking the Y position of the cursor, you can determine whether the subject has responded. Here is an example of the script to use: Dim nInitY As Integer Dim nCurrentY As Integer Dim nDiff As Integer nInitY = Joystick.CursorY Do nCurrentY = Joystick.CursorY nDiff = nInitY - nCurrentY Loop Until Abs(nDiff) > 50 Stimulus.RTTime = Clock.Read Stimulus.RT = Stimulus.RTTime - Stimulus.OnsetTime If nDiff > 0 Then Stimulus.RESP = "Up" Else Stimulus.RESP = "Down" End If On Feb 3, 5:19?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Well - I do actually have script that gets you to run an XBOX-360 controller (convenient, because they connect using USB and Microsoft tends to release source-code for drivers of such things) on one computer which then connects with a serial cable to another one running E-Prime? It's even able to send continuous data from the various buttons and sticks on the XBOX, AND can receive commands to make it vibrate! Groovy! > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > Sent: 02 February 2010 16:28 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Joystick direction as response & RT > > Nick, > > Fair question, and sadly the answer is no, I have not yet had any > experience whatsoever with modern joysticks in E-Prime. ?And if the > past is any guide, my saying that means that, almost certainly, one > of the labs here is just about to bring me such a project... > > But hey, as I keep saying, that's what PST Web Support is for, so > please contact them post haste athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, they strive > to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. ?And if you do get an > answer from PST Web Support, please do us all the favor of posting > their reply back here. > > Regards, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/2/2010 11:05 AM Tuesday, Nick wrote: > >Hi David, > > >Thanks for the interesting suggestion. ?I think we're kinda locked > >into trying to figure something out with the existing joysticks we > >have before buying other equipment though. Also, I am not so sure that > >I could pull off the the custom cable and connections in the near > >future having never done anything like that before. ?The frustrating > >thing is that my colleague and I have our procedure ready to go except > >for this data recording issue. Would you have any suggestion of in- > >line script that might be able to accomplish the recording of first > >direction & RT by any chance? > > >On Feb 1, 3:21 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > This old geezer cannot quite resist chiming in with some useless > > > thoughts. ?If I only wanted to detect when a subject pushed a > > > joystick forward or backward (and not how far or fast), then I would > > > go to eBay and purchase a simple old four- or eight-position Atari or > > > Commodore style joystick, or even better, an arcade game joystick > > > that used good quality micro switches. ?These gave simple off-on > > > switch closures when the user pushed the stick to a side or > > > corner. ?Then I would build a custom cable to go from the appropriate > > > switches directly to an old parallel printer port or an added digital > > > I/O card. ?Then in E-Prime I would use the Port device, or the > > > ReadPort function from script. > > > > Ah for the days when the electronics were laid bare and the operating > > > system got out of our way... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I can certainly forgive it, but unfortunately that's not the problem. > > > >I can get E-Prime to recognize the joystick and record certain > > > >responses (e.g. button click and concomitant RT), but I can't get it > > > >to record the direction of first movement and the RT of that response. > > > > >On Feb 1, 11:00 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > I hope you can forgive me if this is is a really silly question but: > > > > > did you add a 'joystick' to the devices in the experiment properties? > > > > > (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree). > > > > > > On Feb 1, 5:15 pm, Nick wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > > > > I am trying to interface a Logitech Attack3 joystick with E-Prime. So > > > > > > far I have only had limited success although I think it should be > > > > > > pretty simple to do what I need. > > > > > > > On each trial, the participants will have to respond to the final > > > > > > slide with a forward or backward movement of the joystick (depending > > > > > > on the trial type). All I need is 1) for E-Prime to record the > > > > > > Reaction Time of when the the push or pull of the joystick is > > > > > > initiated (in correspondence to the onset of the final slide for each > > > > > > trial) and 2) for the direction (up or down) of the first joystick > > > > > > movement to be recorded to the data file. > > > > > > > It seems like this should be pretty standard, but I can't find any > > > > > > code that addresses it. Is there some code you might know of to do > > > > > > this type of thing? > > > > > > > Also, I did read through previous posts attempting to solve this > > > > > > problem with continuous sampling of the joystick X-Y coordinates, but > > > > > > I couldn't get the posted code to work out. ?Although I don't like > > > > > > this solution quite as much for my purposes, any help with how to > > > > > > continuously sample the X-Y coordinates would also be very > > > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Nick > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yanhyu at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 00:36:45 2010 From: yanhyu at gmail.com (Helen) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:36:45 -0500 Subject: onset delays In-Reply-To: <54ff1cf1002041635k3fed6b2bl1a73622744bd3cb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > > Hi, > > > > A very naive question from a very novice eprimer: the auditory stimuli > in my experiment have "0" action delay, but onset delay of 0-18 msec. > What is the acceptable range of stimulus onset delay? > > I do not have any eprime manual handy at this moment, and did not see > any discussion about it online. Please forgive me for asking such a > silly question. > > Helen > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 11:16:00 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 03:16:00 -0800 Subject: Face Recognition Task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well.. your current task design is somewhat complex in that is has several 'phases' but in terms of 'e-prime mechanics' it's actually very basic. And from what I gather this whole assignment is ment to get you 'going on e-prime' so explaining you how to do everything and/ or sending you a file would completely defy the point. You had an introductionary course and you have several e-prime guides (including the one by Michiel) so you ought to get your way around a bit with lists, procedures and slideobjects. I'll repeat my earlier advice to start with just one of the phases of your experiment e.g. the passive viewing of faces and disregard the rest at first. One pointer that I'd like to give is that instead of telling your imageobject directly which file it should show (i.e. state something like 'filename.jpg' in the box 'filename' you can also tell it to fetch a filename from a list that has different filenames in it's different levels. To do this put the filenames in a list under an attribute called for instance 'stimulusfile' and in the filename box of the imageobject fill out [stimulusfile]. Best, liw On Feb 4, 6:23 pm, scarpais wrote: > Hi liw, > > Thank you so much for your quick response. I apologise for the late > reply. > > In answer to your first comment, the teacher felt that given time > constraints, it would be impossible to program this design (dot > probe). I have little time in which to do this task! It is ostensibly > a simple design from my point of you also but I know little about E > Prime and I think that's what he was getting at. > > In answer to the following: > > Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > > > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > > This is correct. Simple as you can see. Only again, the fact that I > know little about E Prime is making the task impossible. I have now > sat for hours trying to work out how to do this to no avail :( > > On Jan 31, 1:44 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Scarpais, > > > Quite frankly I fail to see how a dot-probe is too problematic to > > design using e-prime. E-prime is absolutely able to 'do it'. So... > > could it be that your teacher actually tried to say that your set-up > > was too complex for that specific assignment? I.e. a too complex > > design for the given time? > > > As for your new design: it seems about as complex as your intial > > design was? Is what you describe the course of a single trial or the > > complete test? I gather the latter? Then what would be the purpose of > > response times? > > > Do I get this correctly: you first want to run a list of faces each > > shown once for a designated time and the subject does not need to do > > anything but view? Followed by a list of words and again the subject > > only needs to view? Then faces are shown again and this time the > > subject needs to indicate by a buttonpress whether or not this face > > has been shown before, followed by a word list and again subjecst need > > to indicate whether or not they recognise the words? > > > Well you had a basic lesson of e-prime so you're familiair with lists > > and procedures. What you need are four lists on your testprocedure, > > one for each type of stimulus (faces no interaciton, words no > > interaction, words recognition and faces recognition) and a separate > > procedure for each proc. Each procedure would hold a slide (or a text/ > > imageobject) that shows the stimulus and has it's properties set to > > the needs of that list. And perhaps some fancy extra's like a > > trialinterval slide. It's really quite simple. > > > Don't fear e-prime! Open your e-studio and simply start making the > > first part of the experiment: faces passive viewing. Once you got that > > you can add the words passive viewing and from there it's not hard to > > create the faces and words recognitions lists and procedures. Just > > take it step by step and I think you'll find that it's all far less > > difficult than you think now. > > > Also: Michiel's book is a really nice guide, and I read that you have > > some other guides as well. Consult them when you're stuck but dont' > > fear to just start fiddling around in e-studio. > > > Good luck! > > > liw > > > On 30 jan, 11:16, scarpais wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > As a newcomer to E Prime I have been told that my proposed experiment > > > is going to be too problematic to design using E Prime. My initial > > > idea was to design a dot-probe task to measure response times and > > > accuracy to the dot probe following paired presentations of a neutral > > > vs. an emotional face (happy/sad) and also for neutral vs. emotional > > > words. > > > > I have went to some lengths however to get my stimuli and would like > > > to design something based around this. I was thinking perhaps a face > > > recognition task to investigate response times and accuracy once more. > > > This time, the faces would be presented in the first instance, a > > > mixture of both happy, sad and neutral but this time only one pic at a > > > time. Following this, I would like to present a some words > > > sequentially. Again these would be a mix of neutral and emotional > > > words. > > > > After this, I would like to present the target faces once more and > > > also some face stimuli not included in the first part of the > > > experiment and ask participants to state whether this face appeared in > > > the first trial or not and then do the same again for the words. > > > Measuring both accuracy and response times. > > > > This doesn't sound too complicated to me but as a relatively new > > > EPrimer I am clueless as to how to go about doing this. I have a > > > couple of starting up guides with examples and wondered if anyone had > > > an example/tutorial that would show me step by step how to do this > > > particular type of experiment? If not, if anyone had any suggestions > > > as to how I can do another experiment using this stimuli I'd be > > > extremely grateful. > > > > I have been informed that my task is to design an experiment using E > > > Prime and that it does not matter if it is from an online example or > > > tutorial as long as it is not one of the ones from the E Prime > > > starting guide. > > > > Thanks for reading this!- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 5 15:48:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:48:56 -0500 Subject: onset delays In-Reply-To: <54ff1cf1002041636p4af2f906k3b674368fdd11efa@mail.gmail.com > Message-ID: Helen, When you do have the manuals handy, study Chapter 3 of the User's Guide. Or make it handy by downloading the .pdf from the PST web site. -- David McFarlane, Professioal Faultfinder At 2/4/2010 07:36 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Hi, > > > >A very naive question from a very novice eprimer: the auditory stimuli >in my experiment have "0" action delay, but onset delay of 0-18 msec. >What is the acceptable range of stimulus onset delay? > >I do not have any eprime manual handy at this moment, and did not see >any discussion about it online. Please forgive me for asking such a >silly question. > >Helen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From rmutreja at gmail.com Fri Feb 5 15:53:58 2010 From: rmutreja at gmail.com (Rachna) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 07:53:58 -0800 Subject: Time Limit Indication Message-ID: For my task, there is an 8 second limit for response time. Is there a way to warn the participant at 6 or 7 seconds that they are running out of time? If participants respond before 8 seconds, the event terminates and moves to the next trial. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 5 16:05:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:05:10 -0500 Subject: Time Limit Indication In-Reply-To: <8d282d0f-60a1-4962-be26-edcab08f12e0@f15g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Rachna, I would do this using "extended input" to cover the 8 s period. Then set the Duration of the stimulus to 6 or 7 s, followed by some warning display (perhaps with a limited Frame so as not to cover the stimulus). Etc. If I used End Action Terminate then I would need some inline code between the stimulus and the warning in order to skip the warning in case a response came before the warning; or, if I used End Action Jump I might get it to jump past the warning after a response without using any code. Start by working through Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime in order to familiarize yourself with extended input, and take it from there. -- David McFarlane, Professioal Faultfinder >For my task, there is an 8 second limit for response time. Is there a >way to warn the participant at 6 or 7 seconds that they are running >out of time? If participants respond before 8 seconds, the event >terminates and moves to the next trial. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 16:15:34 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 08:15:34 -0800 Subject: closing another application when Eprime resumes from suspend In-Reply-To: <4b6204ee.5344f10a.7f95.315dSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey Dave, Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, we don't have a license for MediaLab, so it looks like I'm stuck to Eprime. PST did get back to me after almost 2 weeks (they're usually much better at responding). Apparently there's an AppClose command that will do just what I want. However, I'm having trouble getting it to work. Not sure if this is because I have the application header wrong, or something else. Anyone have experience using the AppClose() function? Thanks, -Matt On Jan 28, 4:42?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Matt, > > Don't you hate it when someone gives you a useless answer to a > question you did not ask? ?Well, I have never explored E-Prime's > Suspend/Resume features, but I think you could run your design much > better in Empirisoft MediaLab (possibly combined with their DirectRT) > rather than E-Prime. ?But maybe somebody else here has a real answer for you. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." > > > > >This is my first forum post, and I am an E-prime 2 user. ?In my > >protocol, I am displaying some instructions, suspending E-prime to go > >to a web browser, returning to Eprime for a distractor task, and > >suspending E-prime again to open a new web browser window. ?I am doing > >this by modifying the "Suspend/Resume" sample on PST's support site > >(http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? > >Mode=View&SampleID=27). ?I created two instances of the inline object > >in the sample. ?After setting all the variables to zero at the end of > >the first inline and removing the declaration statements in the second > >inline, I sandwiched my list object for the distracter task in the > >middle. > > >This works great when the first browser instance is closed before the > >logical expression... > > >nExitCode = STILL_ACTIVE And (Clock.Read - nStartTime < X) > > >...evaluates to false because X is reached. ?However, if the first > >browser instance is left open when E-prime resumes control, then the > >second time I suspend Eprime, it resumes as soon as it opens the > >second browser window. ?I think this has something to do with Eprime > >evaluating that the first instance of the browser is still open, since > >the second inline should change nStartTime to a new value as soon as > >the second browser is launched. > > >Do any of you have insights on how I can get Eprime to either 1)close > >the first browser window OR 2) not flake out when calling for a second > >browser to be open? > > >Thanks for your help, > >-Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 8 19:14:35 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:14:35 -0500 Subject: closing another application when Eprime resumes from suspend In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Matt, Thanks for posting back with the response from PST. Just in case anyone else wants to use the AppClose command, note that you will not find it in the Index of the online E-Basic Help. Instead, if you want to see the documentation then you will need to use the Find feature to find the topic. I will have to take that up with PST Web Support. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hey Dave, > >Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, we don't have a license for >MediaLab, so it looks like I'm stuck to Eprime. PST did get back to me >after almost 2 weeks (they're usually much better at responding). >Apparently there's an AppClose command that will do just what I want. >However, I'm having trouble getting it to work. Not sure if this is >because I have the application header wrong, or something else. >Anyone have experience using the AppClose() function? > >Thanks, >-Matt > > > >On Jan 28, 4:42 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Matt, > > > > Don't you hate it when someone gives you a useless answer to a > > question you did not ask? Well, I have never explored E-Prime's > > Suspend/Resume features, but I think you could run your design much > > better in Empirisoft MediaLab (possibly combined with their DirectRT) > > rather than E-Prime. But maybe somebody else here has a real > answer for you. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." > > > > > > > > >This is my first forum post, and I am an E-prime 2 user. In my > > >protocol, I am displaying some instructions, suspending E-prime to go > > >to a web browser, returning to Eprime for a distractor task, and > > >suspending E-prime again to open a new web browser window. I am doing > > >this by modifying the "Suspend/Resume" sample on PST's support site > > >(http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp? > > >Mode=View&SampleID=27). I created two instances of the inline object > > >in the sample. After setting all the variables to zero at the end of > > >the first inline and removing the declaration statements in the second > > >inline, I sandwiched my list object for the distracter task in the > > >middle. > > > > >This works great when the first browser instance is closed before the > > >logical expression... > > > > >nExitCode = STILL_ACTIVE And (Clock.Read - nStartTime < X) > > > > >...evaluates to false because X is reached. However, if the first > > >browser instance is left open when E-prime resumes control, then the > > >second time I suspend Eprime, it resumes as soon as it opens the > > >second browser window. I think this has something to do with Eprime > > >evaluating that the first instance of the browser is still open, since > > >the second inline should change nStartTime to a new value as soon as > > >the second browser is launched. > > > > >Do any of you have insights on how I can get Eprime to either 1)close > > >the first browser window OR 2) not flake out when calling for a second > > >browser to be open? > > > > >Thanks for your help, > > >-Matt > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From rmutreja at gmail.com Mon Feb 8 22:18:08 2010 From: rmutreja at gmail.com (Rachna) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:18:08 -0800 Subject: Runtime installation Message-ID: Has anyone experienced problems loading the runtime cd to install runtime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 8 22:24:05 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:24:05 -0500 Subject: Runtime installation In-Reply-To: <13f7a6cd-8cf5-4b01-a068-e5051ecc3e17@u26g2000yqm.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Rachna, >Has anyone experienced problems loading the runtime cd to install runtime? Do you have a full license, or runtime only? If a full license, please see discussion of full vs. subject-station installation at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic3736-4-1.aspx and http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/1ab4456e77da1eaf . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 16:18:21 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 08:18:21 -0800 Subject: image angle variable Message-ID: Hi, does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle within e-prime? There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an attribute in a list. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Feb 9 16:34:10 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:34:10 -0000 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no such thing. The easiest way is using any kind of image processing software to do this and using those - and I hope you are not using too many images and angles - in E-Prime. You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being heavily promoted by a colleague over here). I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the possibility of updating their .NET reliance - all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming (cf. Expression Blend). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 To: E-Prime Subject: image angle variable Hi, does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle within e-prime? There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an attribute in a list. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 9 16:54:32 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:54:32 -0500 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: <4b719271.5344f10a.7f7e.121bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: BTW, for anyone interested in exploring Presentation, I believe they offer a free full one-year license to any owner of E-Prime (MatLab, by contrast, has a very expensive and confusing price structure). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I belive this is also a breeze in MatLab when >you have suitable toolkits. Possibly >Presentation also, but I would have to look into that. > >You should also post this question to PST Web >Support at >http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp >and then post back here with their response. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >At 2/9/2010 11:34 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >>Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no >>such thing. The easiest way is using any kind >>of image processing software to do this and >>using those - and I hope you are not using too >>many images and angles - in E-Prime. >>You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being >>heavily promoted by a colleague over here). >> >>I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the >>possibility of updating their .NET reliance - >>all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming (cf. Expression Blend). >>Cheers, >>Mich >> >>Michiel Spap? >>Research Fellow >>Perception & Action group >>University of Nottingham >>School of Psychology >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >>[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias >>Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 >>To: E-Prime >>Subject: image angle variable >> >>Hi, >> >>does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle >>within e-prime? >>There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such >>option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an >>attribute in a list. >> >>Cheers, >>Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are >subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 9 16:50:22 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:50:22 -0500 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02BD8792@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I belive this is also a breeze in MatLab when you have suitable toolkits. Possibly Presentation also, but I would have to look into that. You should also post this question to PST Web Support at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and then post back here with their response. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/9/2010 11:34 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no such >thing. The easiest way is using any kind of >image processing software to do this and using >those - and I hope you are not using too many images and angles - in E-Prime. >You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being >heavily promoted by a colleague over here). > >I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the >possibility of updating their .NET reliance - >all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming (cf. Expression Blend). >Cheers, >Mich > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias >Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 >To: E-Prime >Subject: image angle variable > >Hi, > >does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle >within e-prime? >There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such >option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an >attribute in a list. > >Cheers, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From rmutreja at gmail.com Tue Feb 9 17:14:05 2010 From: rmutreja at gmail.com (Rachna Mutreja) Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:14:05 -0600 Subject: image angle variable In-Reply-To: <4b71936b.5344f10a.7b87.137cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: We used Dehaene's script to create varying dot patterns. I'm not sure it can be applied to other stimuli, but you can try. http://www.unicog.org/docs/DocumentationDotsGeneration.doc On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:54 AM, David McFarlane wrote: > BTW, for anyone interested in exploring Presentation, I believe they offer > a free full one-year license to any owner of E-Prime (MatLab, by contrast, > has a very expensive and confusing price structure). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > I belive this is also a breeze in MatLab when you have suitable toolkits. >> Possibly Presentation also, but I would have to look into that. >> >> You should also post this question to PST Web Support at >> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and then post back >> here with their response. >> >> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >> At 2/9/2010 11:34 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >> >>> Tough luck :) As far as I know, there is no such thing. The easiest way >>> is using any kind of image processing software to do this and using those - >>> and I hope you are not using too many images and angles - in E-Prime. >>> You might also wish to try PsychoPy (it being heavily promoted by a >>> colleague over here). >>> >>> I think it's time for E-Prime to look into the possibility of updating >>> their .NET reliance - all this would be a breeze in .XAML like programming >>> (cf. Expression Blend). >>> Cheers, >>> Mich >>> >>> Michiel Spap? >>> Research Fellow >>> Perception & Action group >>> University of Nottingham >>> School of Psychology >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On >>> Behalf Of Tobias >>> Sent: 09 February 2010 16:18 >>> To: E-Prime >>> Subject: image angle variable >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> does anyone know by any chance a good way of changing an image's angle >>> within e-prime? >>> There is an option "mirrorleftright" and "mirrorupdown", but no such >>> option for the angle. I'd like to change that according to an >>> attribute in a list. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Tobias >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "E-Prime" group. >> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Project Coordinator Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience Laboratory Northwestern University 2240 Campus Drive Frances Searle Building, Room 2-330 Evanston, Illinois, 60208 Phone: 847.467.1936 r-mutreja at northwestern.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.fw at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 09:00:18 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:00:18 -0800 Subject: How random is random? Message-ID: Hi together, I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list are not that randomly picked. Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some extent on the number picked before. No real random... Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better way? To optimise the random seed? Thanks a lot, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From psycholika at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 11:16:45 2010 From: psycholika at gmail.com (Siatra Vasiliki) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:16:45 -0800 Subject: How random is random? In-Reply-To: <268763ba-6fd7-4103-b571-5f17b85bdbe2@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Well, when I want to use a randomized exp I prefer a more unsophisticated way. I use the RAND function in excel for my items (and this can be done also within subcategories) and then have the sequential choice for the selection order. But in this way you have the same random order for every subj. Vasiliqu.ee On Feb 11, 11:00?am, Tobias wrote: > Hi together, > > I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing > things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list > are not that randomly picked. > Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to > pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and > are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" > it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some > extent on the number picked before. No real random... > > Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better > way? To optimise the random seed? > > Thanks a lot, > Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Feb 11 14:08:19 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:08:19 -0000 Subject: How random is random? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you don't want to see your random looking unrandomly, it pays off to use randomisation without replacement... That is, just make an array with your angles and randomise that. That will 'make it look more random' (though it is obviously less so), and I suspect we, humans, just tend to be very unrandom about random in general (i.e. the number 1111111 looking much less random than 2148712, for instance). Other than that, I suggest what E-Basic Help will tell you: Syntax Randomize [number] Description Initializes the random number generator with a new seed. Comments If number is not specified, then the current value of the system clock is used. Example 'This example sets the randomize seed to a random number between '100 and 1000, then generates ten random numbers for the lottery. Const crlf = Chr$(13) + Chr$(10) Sub Main() Randomize 'Start with new random seed. For x = 1 To 10 y = Random(0,100) 'Generate numbers. message = message + Str(y) + crlf Next x MsgBox "Ten numbers for the lottery: " & crlf & message End Sub Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Siatra Vasiliki Sent: 11 February 2010 11:17 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: How random is random? Well, when I want to use a randomized exp I prefer a more unsophisticated way. I use the RAND function in excel for my items (and this can be done also within subcategories) and then have the sequential choice for the selection order. But in this way you have the same random order for every subj. Vasiliqu.ee On Feb 11, 11:00?am, Tobias wrote: > Hi together, > > I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing > things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list > are not that randomly picked. > Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to > pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and > are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" > it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some > extent on the number picked before. No real random... > > Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better > way? To optimise the random seed? > > Thanks a lot, > Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Thu Feb 11 14:28:23 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 06:28:23 -0800 Subject: a randomization question Message-ID: hi i have four blocks - two for one task (A) and two for another task (B) my question is - how do i arrnage that the trandomization order of the blokcs will be for 50% of my subjects ABAB and for the other 50% BABA? thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 11 15:02:19 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:02:19 -0500 Subject: How random is random? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tobias, You have asked a very deep and excellent question of a sort that no doubt has lead to several dissertations, so I will not answer it in a short online post. I will say that E-Prime just uses the standard pseudorandom number generator provided in Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications. (And AFAIK Excel uses the same PRNG (after all it relies on VBA, just like E-Prime), so the method used by Vasiliqu.ee should produce the same results as E-Prime.) To really approach this question, we must first understand what we mean by "random", then go on to study "random number generation" and "pseudorandom number generator". For an introduction you should look up these topics on Wikipedia. (While you are at it you might also look up "shuffling" and "Fisher?Yates shuffle", since we most often use E-Prime randomization to shuffle a List.) Then you could ask more pointed questions about randomization in E-Prime. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'" (www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html ). Siatra Vasiliki wrote: > Well, when I want to use a randomized exp I prefer a more > unsophisticated way. > I use the RAND function in excel for my items (and this can be done > also within subcategories) > and then have the sequential choice for the selection order. > But in this way you have the same random order for every subj. > > Vasiliqu.ee > > On Feb 11, 11:00 am, Tobias wrote: >> Hi together, >> >> I was wondering: What's your experience with E-Prime randomizing >> things? It sometimes occured to me that e.g. conditions from a list >> are not that randomly picked. >> Just yesterday I used some InLineScript "y = random(1,180) in order to >> pick a bitmap. As these bitmaps content a line of a certain angle and >> are put on the screen in a matrix, you can kind of see how "mixed up" >> it looks. It seems to me that which number is picked relies to some >> extent on the number picked before. No real random... >> >> Do you know if there is any way to draw random numbers in a better >> way? To optimise the random seed? >> >> Thanks a lot, >> Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Sat Feb 13 17:39:01 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:39:01 -0800 Subject: 576 images in one slide In-Reply-To: <4b50a2ea.5944f10a.2351.4357SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi, so thanks to David's hint I could manage to compose a script displaying 576 images on one slide. As I use a loop function it is not much code, however the processing time is a problem. Although the slide is supposed to be displayed for only 200 ms, it's duration is about 700-800 ms. I thought about changing the images' colour depth and got bitmaps of 144 bytes instead of 1 KB each. Unfortunately that didn't change anything. I then used pre-release of 1000 ms and (just to test) an empty screen of 2000 ms just before each slide. Interestingly, the durationError was increased exactly be the pre-release time and onsetDelay was constant. This really is a riddle to me. First of all, the duration didn't seem to be prolonged (by appearance). Then, why is the duration not the desired 200 ms if there is enough time for pre-release? What makes E-Prime unable to already establish the slide? Maybe you have had similar problems and could help me out. Best, Tobias On 15 Jan., 18:16, David McFarlane wrote: > Tobias, > > >576times inserting sub-objects is indeed too tedious, especially as > >copy-paste doesn't work in e-prime for filename or positionin the > >object settings. > > >If I change the code, I can only do that for the e-run script file, > >right? If I do change something here I won't see that anywhere in a > >visual form like in the main program of e-prime, if I'm not wrong. > >This might make it hard to check if it is running as I want. > > No, no, no. ?Sorry if that was not clear. ?Look at the generated > script just to figure out how things get done. ?Then go back to > E-Studio and do your editing & exploration in inline script there. ?I > would make one simple demo program to generate working code that I > can examine, and then a separate demo program where I make my changes > (and mistakes!). > > That said, here is another hint. ?You have not said whether you are > stuck with EP1 or EP2. ?But if you have access to good old EP1, it is > much, much easier to explore script in E-Run there. ?As you > recognize, what you change in E-Run will not propogate back to > E-Studio, but in this case you just use E-Run edits to explore & > learn, then apply (possibly by copy & paste) what you learn with > E-Run back to inline script in E-Studio. > > Hope that makes things clearer. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Mon Feb 15 20:43:10 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:43:10 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample Message-ID: Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 10:56:12 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:56:12 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <26267dce-3284-4561-93dd-d301dec8078d@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey John, These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting random order for your list properties your problem would be solved... ? best, liw On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 15:56:38 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:56:38 -0800 Subject: 576 images in one slide In-Reply-To: <4fa5d244-382a-4d29-ab3e-a0e2360291b6@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Okay, I finally managed to solve the problem. I seperated the code in two inlines, one to define the slide and one to call the slide. fixation cross now comes between those and there seems to be no error anymore. On 13 Feb., 18:39, Tobias wrote: > Hi, > > so thanks to David's hint I could manage to compose a script > displaying 576 images on one slide. As I use a loop function it is not > much code, however the processing time is a problem. > Although the slide is supposed to be displayed for only 200 ms, it's > duration is about 700-800 ms. I thought about changing the images' > colour depth and got bitmaps of 144 bytes instead of 1 KB each. > Unfortunately that didn't change anything. > I then used pre-release of 1000 ms and (just to test) an empty screen > of 2000 ms just before each slide. Interestingly, the durationError > was increased exactly be the pre-release time and onsetDelay was > constant. This really is a riddle to me. > > First of all, the duration didn't seem to be prolonged (by > appearance). Then, why is the duration not the desired 200 ms if there > is enough time for pre-release? What makes E-Prime unable to already > establish the slide? > > Maybe you have had similar problems and could help me out. > > Best, > Tobias > > On 15 Jan., 18:16, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Tobias, > > > >576times inserting sub-objects is indeed too tedious, especially as > > >copy-paste doesn't work in e-prime for filename or positionin the > > >object settings. > > > >If I change the code, I can only do that for the e-run script file, > > >right? If I do change something here I won't see that anywhere in a > > >visual form like in the main program of e-prime, if I'm not wrong. > > >This might make it hard to check if it is running as I want. > > > No, no, no. ?Sorry if that was not clear. ?Look at the generated > > script just to figure out how things get done. ?Then go back to > > E-Studio and do your editing & exploration in inline script there. ?I > > would make one simple demo program to generate working code that I > > can examine, and then a separate demo program where I make my changes > > (and mistakes!). > > > That said, here is another hint. ?You have not said whether you are > > stuck with EP1 or EP2. ?But if you have access to good old EP1, it is > > much, much easier to explore script in E-Run there. ?As you > > recognize, what you change in E-Run will not propogate back to > > E-Studio, but in this case you just use E-Run edits to explore & > > learn, then apply (possibly by copy & paste) what you learn with > > E-Run back to inline script in E-Studio. > > > Hope that makes things clearer. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 16:01:06 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:01:06 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <558eddf9-c535-4a60-b1e8-91c5e416ca40@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: liw, thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have written is not enough information about my experiment please let me know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of what I am doing. Thanks, JCFIII On Feb 16, 4:56?am, liwenna wrote: > Hey John, > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > random order for your list properties your problem would be > solved... ? > > best, > > liw > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 16:47:12 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:47:12 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <56a8380d-ca0d-446e-bc31-06819f1933cc@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi John, you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can then call that list from another list using square brackets around the attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... Cheers, Tobias On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > liw, > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > what I am doing. > > Thanks, > JCFIII > > On Feb 16, 4:56?am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey John, > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > solved... ? > > > best, > > > liw > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 20:23:14 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:23:14 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tobias, Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. Thanks, JCFIII On Feb 16, 10:47?am, Tobias wrote: > Hi John, > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > Cheers, > Tobias > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > liw, > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > what I am doing. > > > Thanks, > > JCFIII > > > On Feb 16, 4:56?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey John, > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > solved... ? > > > > best, > > > > liw > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From kellerj at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 21:25:14 2010 From: kellerj at gmail.com (Jen Keller) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:25:14 -0800 Subject: JPEG image problem: Slice of JPEG image remains on subsequent screen Message-ID: Hello, I am having a problem with the JPEG images in my Eprime experiment. Our study format includes a screen which presents 2 target photos, the target photos then disappear and are replaced by a probe on the next screen (in our study an x). Both photos should be completely absent from the probe screen, however a slice of one of the picture remains on either the left of right side of the screen (whichever side the probe isn't on). Does anyone know why a portion of the picture is carrying over to the next screen, and how can we eliminate it? Additionally, we know how to set the pixel size for the jpeg photos, and we are wondering if there is a way to set the pixels for the distance between the two pictures. Thanks much. -Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 22:54:03 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 14:54:03 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <48f03f2f-d68c-46d2-943b-5e605c3483c7@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey John! I think I see your problem now... you want to have groups of nine words appearing in nine different locations and after each location is used once... a new run of nine words on each location etc. while in each group of 9 words your probeword needs to be used once and the other 8 words need to be randomly drawn from the remaining 23 words? Is that correct? *thinkthinkthink* how about... make a list with 9 levels... and an attribute called 'stimword' or whatever name you are using right now. This is the attribute that the textobject or slide will call out to for it's word. Fill out your probeword in one of the levels of 'stimword' and make the other 8 levels call out to a second attribute for instance called distractor by filling out [distractor] as the value of 'stimword'. Into this 9-level list nest a list called for instance 'distractorlist' that contains the attribute 'distractor' and has 23 levels holding the distractorwords. Randomise both lists and set the first list to be run a number of times (as many runs of 9 words as you need). Now... e-prime will run the 9-level (= 9 trials) list a set number of times always using the probeword in 1 out of 9 trials and randomingly pick words from the remaining 23 words on the remaining 8 trials. I would actually then suggest adding a 24th word to make 3x8=24+3 = 27 = 3 runs of 9 words possible... yet the very fact that your 23 words don't seem to 'match up' with what I now think you need done makes me think that I might have not the right idea of what you need after all.... Lastly: I don't know how you implemented the randompositioning at the moment but if the above suggstion is what you need after all, I suggest putting that attribute in yet anoter list that is also nested into the 9-level triallist together with the distractorlist (separate listnames by comma's in the attribute 'nested'). Best, liw On Feb 16, 9:23?pm, John Fletcher wrote: > Tobias, > Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list > containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list > calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot > figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time > while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. > > Thanks, > JCFIII > > On Feb 16, 10:47?am, Tobias wrote: > > > Hi John, > > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > > Cheers, > > Tobias > > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > liw, > > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > > what I am doing. > > > > Thanks, > > > JCFIII > > > > On Feb 16, 4:56?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Hey John, > > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > > solved... ? > > > > > best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Feb 16 23:02:30 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:02:30 -0800 Subject: JPEG image problem: Slice of JPEG image remains on subsequent screen In-Reply-To: <4b34b886-4e76-4805-914d-8d344c9de4b1@y26g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Jen, Somehow your display screen is not completely cleard out by the probe screen. Check whether your probedisplay is completely 'opaque' (see for instance the backgroundcolour setting on 'default' (the 'background of your slide'). Is it possible that you have two imageobjects for the probe (left and right) and only one filled out on every trial? And that thus the location on the other imageobject is not 'filled with something' and hence showing part of the previous slide?. There is also this clearafter function that you could toggel to yes on the properties on the stimulusslide. As for the pixel distance... I guess you'll have to do the math by hand... if you set x of the rightsided stimuluspicture to say.... 960 pixels and the left sided stimuluspicture to 320 then the midlines of the pictures will be 640 pixels apart.... if your images are for instance... 400 pixels wide then that means that the distance between the inner edges is 240 pixels (as there is 1/2 x 400 = 200 pixels on both innersides of the pictures measured from the midline of the pictures which are located at the values of x). Hope this helps somewhat.... AW On Feb 16, 10:25?pm, Jen Keller wrote: > Hello, > > I am having a problem with the JPEG images in my Eprime experiment. > Our study format includes a screen which presents 2 target photos, the > target photos then disappear and are replaced by a probe on the next > screen (in our study an x). Both photos should be completely absent > from the probe screen, however a slice of one of the picture remains > on either the left of right side of the screen (whichever side the > probe isn't on). Does anyone know why a portion of the picture is > carrying over to the next screen, and how can we eliminate it? > > Additionally, we know how to set the pixel size for the jpeg photos, > and we are wondering if there is a way to set the pixels for the > distance between the two pictures. > > Thanks much. > > -Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From thethirdclyde at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 05:14:38 2010 From: thethirdclyde at gmail.com (John Fletcher) Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:14:38 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <495f2240-345a-4ae3-af17-04cdd2793921@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: liw, I think you may have solved my problem, and I praise you for it. If this works it was my last portion of the experiment I've been writing will be done! I may be responding in childish excitement but I am quite ecstatic. I've been working on this for quite sometime and I believe that you may have just explained how to get past my last road block. Gratefully, JCFIII On Feb 16, 4:54?pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey John! > > I think I see your problem now... you want to have groups of nine > words appearing in nine different locations and after each location is > used once... ?a new run of nine words on each location etc. while in > each group of 9 words your probeword needs to be used once and the > other 8 words need to be randomly drawn from the remaining 23 words? > > Is that correct? > > *thinkthinkthink* > how about... make a list with 9 levels... and an attribute called > 'stimword' or whatever name you are using right now. This is the > attribute that the textobject or slide will call out to for it's word. > Fill out your probeword in one of the levels of 'stimword' and make > the other 8 levels call out to a second attribute for instance called > distractor by filling out [distractor] as the value of 'stimword'. > Into this 9-level list nest a list called for instance > 'distractorlist' that contains the attribute 'distractor' and has 23 > levels holding the distractorwords. Randomise both lists and set the > first list to be run a number of times (as many runs of 9 words as you > need). Now... e-prime will run the 9-level (= 9 trials) list a set > number of times always using the probeword in 1 out of 9 trials and > randomingly pick words from the remaining 23 words on the remaining 8 > trials. I would actually then suggest adding a 24th word to make > 3x8=24+3 = 27 = 3 runs of 9 words possible... yet the very fact that > your 23 words don't seem to 'match up' with what I now think you need > done makes me think that I might have not the right idea of what you > need after all.... ? Lastly: I don't know how you implemented the > randompositioning at the moment but if the above suggstion is what you > need after all, I suggest putting that attribute in yet anoter list > that is also nested into the 9-level triallist together with the > distractorlist (separate listnames by comma's in the attribute > 'nested'). > > Best, > > liw > > On Feb 16, 9:23?pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > Tobias, > > Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list > > containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list > > calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot > > figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time > > while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. > > > Thanks, > > JCFIII > > > On Feb 16, 10:47?am, Tobias wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > > > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > > > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > > > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > > > Cheers, > > > Tobias > > > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > liw, > > > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > > > what I am doing. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > JCFIII > > > > > On Feb 16, 4:56?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > Hey John, > > > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > > > solved... ? > > > > > > best, > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Feb 17 11:41:36 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 03:41:36 -0800 Subject: Help! Getting a probe word chosen out of a large list once during every sample In-Reply-To: <0deb73ef-9b09-4013-bac8-093809ccb12c@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: You're welcome ^.^ Let me know if something still gets in your way ;) Best, liw On Feb 17, 6:14?am, John Fletcher wrote: > liw, > I think you may have solved my problem, and I praise you for it. If > this works it was my last portion of the experiment I've been writing > will be done! I may be responding in childish excitement but I am > quite ecstatic. I've been working on this for quite sometime and I > believe that you may have just explained how to get past my last road > block. > > Gratefully, > JCFIII > > On Feb 16, 4:54?pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey John! > > > I think I see your problem now... you want to have groups of nine > > words appearing in nine different locations and after each location is > > used once... ?a new run of nine words on each location etc. while in > > each group of 9 words your probeword needs to be used once and the > > other 8 words need to be randomly drawn from the remaining 23 words? > > > Is that correct? > > > *thinkthinkthink* > > how about... make a list with 9 levels... and an attribute called > > 'stimword' or whatever name you are using right now. This is the > > attribute that the textobject or slide will call out to for it's word. > > Fill out your probeword in one of the levels of 'stimword' and make > > the other 8 levels call out to a second attribute for instance called > > distractor by filling out [distractor] as the value of 'stimword'. > > Into this 9-level list nest a list called for instance > > 'distractorlist' that contains the attribute 'distractor' and has 23 > > levels holding the distractorwords. Randomise both lists and set the > > first list to be run a number of times (as many runs of 9 words as you > > need). Now... e-prime will run the 9-level (= 9 trials) list a set > > number of times always using the probeword in 1 out of 9 trials and > > randomingly pick words from the remaining 23 words on the remaining 8 > > trials. I would actually then suggest adding a 24th word to make > > 3x8=24+3 = 27 = 3 runs of 9 words possible... yet the very fact that > > your 23 words don't seem to 'match up' with what I now think you need > > done makes me think that I might have not the right idea of what you > > need after all.... ? Lastly: I don't know how you implemented the > > randompositioning at the moment but if the above suggstion is what you > > need after all, I suggest putting that attribute in yet anoter list > > that is also nested into the 9-level triallist together with the > > distractorlist (separate listnames by comma's in the attribute > > 'nested'). > > > Best, > > > liw > > > On Feb 16, 9:23?pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > Tobias, > > > Thank you for your response. I am currently using a nested list > > > containing my 23 distractors and one probe word. I have my main list > > > calling to that for each presentation, my problem is that I cannot > > > figure out how to guarantee that my probe word will show up every time > > > while still keeping where it shows up in my list random. > > > > Thanks, > > > JCFIII > > > > On Feb 16, 10:47?am, Tobias wrote: > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > you should use a nested list with an attribute (the name of a column > > > > in the list) with 23 entries (i.e. one line for each word). You can > > > > then call that list from another list using square brackets around the > > > > attribute's name. That should make it a bit easier... > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tobias > > > > > On 16 Feb., 17:01, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > liw, > > > > > thank you for your response. The words are being shown 1 at a time in > > > > > the 9 positions. My problem with setting the list to random is that > > > > > the probe word is not shown every time in one of those 9 position > > > > > because there are 23 other words and only one probe. I have tried > > > > > weighting my probe word, but I cannot have it shown more than once in > > > > > each group of 9 words. I am rather new to E-prime, and if what i have > > > > > written is not enough information about my experiment please let me > > > > > know and when I get out of class I will sit down and write out all of > > > > > what I am doing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > JCFIII > > > > > > On Feb 16, 4:56?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > Hey John, > > > > > > > These nine positions.... are nine words shown at once? Or are the > > > > > > words shown one at a time and at one of the nine positions? > > > > > > In the first case I think we'd need some extra information on your > > > > > > current set-up, in the second case you'd simply have your list contain > > > > > > the 24 words, on of them your probeword, in 24 levels and by selecting > > > > > > random order for your list properties your problem would be > > > > > > solved... ? > > > > > > > best, > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > On Feb 15, 9:43 pm, John Fletcher wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, I am very close to having my experiment done, but I just have > > > > > > > one last piece that I have yet to figure out. I have a list of 24 > > > > > > > words, 23 of which are distractors, and 1 is my probe word. I have 9 > > > > > > > serial positions that these words need to show up randomly in, but my > > > > > > > probe word has to show up once randomly during every run of the list. > > > > > > > I cannot seem to figure out how to make this happen. If anyone can > > > > > > > shed some light on my situation I would immensely grateful. Thank you > > > > > > > for taking the time to read this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Feb 17 17:53:07 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:53:07 -0500 Subject: Response devices In-Reply-To: <7e13effa-d50c-407e-9f05-63cd286dab8b@i39g2000yqm.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: At 2/16/2010 06:07 PM Tuesday, Carlos wrote: >David, > >Anyways, my colleague (who is the one mainly in charge of trying to >configure our response pads) and I have looked at this and tried to >implement a few things. So far we haven't had any luck. We don't have >an SRBox from E-Prime so we can't really route anything through there >or even try to figure out in more detail how it works. You seemed to >have provided that though in your e-mail so I don't think is an issue >at this point. It just seems that E-Prime does not want to correctly >interpret what we are sending to it. > >I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind. > >1) Should we be setting the SRBOX Object/Device in E-Prime to be >emulating the keyboard? That is entirely up to you, it makes no difference to how E-Prime gets the input from the SRBox. It may simplify the testing of your input masks -- you can use a Keyboard mask (using the same values as your SRBox will use) to test your program without the SRBox, then when you add the SRBox you have everything ready. >2) What type of information should we be having the breadbox send out? >Should this be in hex? We have verified that the breadbox is sending >out the information we configure it so send, but E-Prime doesn't seem >to happy with whatever type of output we send to it. I thought I covered that in my earlier post. >3) You said the E-Prime SRBOX sends out &H7F when it powers on. Is >this something that E-Prime has to detect? Not as far as I know, I simply recorded an observation that I made (hence I enclosed that in parentheses). >4) Does the SRBox send a steady stream of bytes to E-Prime at the >speed of 800 bytes per second even if no button is pressed? Yes. >5) If no button is pressed, what will the SRbox send to E-Prime? It sends a steady stream of &H00 bytes. >In your reply you said: In your reply you mentioned:Each bit encodes >the state of one button, so, e.g., button 1 sends &H01, button 2 &H02, >button 3 &H04, etc.; and buttons 1 & 3 simultaneously send &H05, etc. >You may then decode the byte with If...Then, or masking unwanted bits >with a bitwise And > >Would that be the answer to the last two questions? Yes, indeed. >6) If, for example, button 1 is pressed, does the SRBox send >"00000001" to E-Prime immediately? Is there any debounce processing >needed? By any chance do you know how they achieve the "0 millisecond >debounce period" as declared in their website? It does send the "00000001" (or &H01, or 0x01, which I find easier to read). I do not recall any debounce circuity in the SRBox. However, since it sends a new datum only once every 1/800 s = 1.25 ms, the buttons have plenty of time to debounce between each datum. Hope that helps, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From phoenix345 at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 14:25:43 2010 From: phoenix345 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:25:43 -0800 Subject: assessment designer needed Message-ID: Hi, My name is Joshua and I am searching for a consultant to design one, perhaps two, eprime experiments for a grant-funded study I coordinate. Specifically, I need customized "affective" versions of of the Stroop test and the Wisconsin Card Sorting Task that are suitable for subjects aged 8-16 years old (esp. reading grade level). Any information connecting me with someone with the specialized know-how to design such tests would be much appreciated. You may contact me at phoenix345 at gmail.com. JG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From fifilabouche at gmail.com Fri Feb 19 17:01:35 2010 From: fifilabouche at gmail.com (aoifemcloughlin) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:01:35 -0800 Subject: Data order in output Message-ID: Hi all, I've searched to see if this was asked before but couldn't find anything. I may not be explaining myself well enough though in the search. I hope this makes sense... In my output from E-prime there are lots of columns of course. One of which is called triallist. This denotes the order in which each trial was presented to the participant. Because I had my trials set on random the trial list order is messed up (3,9,10,1,4 etc!). What I was wondering was is it possible to change the order that the trial list is presented in in the output so that it is no longer shown differently for each participant. Any help would be appreciated. I can't be the first to have encountered this. Cheers :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Fri Feb 19 17:08:38 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:08:38 +0000 Subject: Data order in output In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, If I understand correctly, I think your column "triallist" is actually a numeric identifier of each item in that List (the first row of the List is triallist 1, etc.), but the order of which is randomized for each subject. The actual order of presentation for a given subject would appear in a column called "triallist.Sample". -dv aoifemcloughlin wrote: > Hi all, > > I've searched to see if this was asked before but couldn't find > anything. I may not be explaining myself well enough though in the > search. > > I hope this makes sense... In my output from E-prime there are lots of > columns of course. One of which is called triallist. This denotes the > order in which each trial was presented to the participant. Because I > had my trials set on random the trial list order is messed up > (3,9,10,1,4 etc!). What I was wondering was is it possible to change > the order that the trial list is presented in in the output so that it > is no longer shown differently for each participant. > > -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 19 17:56:19 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:56:19 -0500 Subject: Data order in output In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am glad that you searched the Group before posting. Also, you can always ask PST Web Support at support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp (and then report back here with their response), they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. But here's my take. You could do this with some clever use of the Analyze tool in E-DataAid. (And much more besides -- as I have said before, E-DataAid deserves much more respect than most labs give it.) So first I would have you study the E-DataAid chapters in both the User's Guide and the Reference Guide that came with E-Prime, and then go on to explore the possiblities of the Analyze tool. Otherwise, of course, you could always do what most labs do and just export the data to Excel and handle it all there (e.g., sort it on the TrialList column, and perhaps automating more data preparation using custom Excel macros). But E-DataAid Analyze makes data preparation so much easier, well worth learning that first. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I've searched to see if this was asked before but couldn't find >anything. I may not be explaining myself well enough though in the >search. > >I hope this makes sense... In my output from E-prime there are lots of >columns of course. One of which is called triallist. This denotes the >order in which each trial was presented to the participant. Because I >had my trials set on random the trial list order is messed up >(3,9,10,1,4 etc!). What I was wondering was is it possible to change >the order that the trial list is presented in in the output so that it >is no longer shown differently for each participant. > >Any help would be appreciated. I can't be the first to have >encountered this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 07:39:11 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:39:11 -0800 Subject: Uploading image Message-ID: Hi, I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best solution. So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in any way. Regards Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 09:13:16 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:13:16 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <722e54a9-69cc-493d-914a-a355d5c56c83@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Gilis, The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in research, make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the displaysize e-prime uses.... Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels display for instance. Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your screen... If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual size of your display. I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your image now. I hope it will be fixed this way! Best of luck, liw On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > Hi, > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > solution. > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > any way. > > Regards > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 11:04:43 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:04:43 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liw, thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the meanwhile just wanted to add that the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. Best Wishes GiliS On 22 ??????, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > Hey Gilis, > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > research, ?make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > display for instance. > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > screen... ?If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > size of your display. > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > image now. > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > Best of luck, > > liw > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > solution. > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > any way. > > > Regards > > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 11:27:35 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:27:35 -0000 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Just to add to this excellent set of solutions by liw, *yes*, it is possible to use Canvas to load your image to the screen directly! Have a look at Canvas.LoadImage (eBasic help). This will also help you, if you want to do some later canvas work, in understanding offscreencanvas buffering and such, so it's not entirely useless. That said, it is not enormously useful, unless you have some reason to use canvas in the first place (e.g. you need to draw all kinds of things to the screen ad hoc), as A: it's an awful lot of script, and B: you can't do more than with slides or even imageObjects. Certainly, E-Prime does not magically make your image of size 800 x 600 fit on a screen that is set in 640 x 480 without cropping the image (which seems exactly what you want?). I would like to stress the fact that cropping in E-Prime works sub-optimally (aliasing problems tend to cause nasty pixel artefacts) in any way and since any decent experimenter wants perfect stimulus material, I'm sure you want to avoid this. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of liwenna Sent: 22 February 2010 09:13 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Uploading image Hey Gilis, The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in research, make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the displaysize e-prime uses.... Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels display for instance. Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your screen... If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual size of your display. I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your image now. I hope it will be fixed this way! Best of luck, liw On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > Hi, > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > solution. > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > any way. > > Regards > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 12:11:09 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:11:09 -0000 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <7f1efcb1-7ac0-4493-8411-9c9f39eb7bfe@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Just to add a little bit more to my previous mail: When you say: 'although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well', it seems you fail to see what exactly digital images are. Images, in particular bitmap images, do not have a size *other than pixel-size*. As such, an image of 100 x 100 pixels will inevitably take up 100/1024 x 100/768 space on your monitor, should your monitor be set to 1024 x 768, unless you stretch the image over a different number of pixels (which usually leads to quality degrading results). Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 11:05 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Uploading image Hi Liw, thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the meanwhile just wanted to add that the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. Best Wishes GiliS On 22 ??????, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > Hey Gilis, > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > research, ?make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > display for instance. > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > screen... ?If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > size of your display. > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > image now. > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > Best of luck, > > liw > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > solution. > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > any way. > > > Regards > > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 12:11:54 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:11:54 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, Just wanted to thank you again-you are great! your advices saved me a lot of work in the very wrong directions... Warm regards Gilis On 22 ??????, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > Hey Gilis, > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > research, ?make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > display for instance. > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > screen... ?If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > size of your display. > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > image now. > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > Best of luck, > > liw > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > Hi, > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > solution. > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > any way. > > > Regards > > Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 12:23:21 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:23:21 -0800 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECBBF@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thank you Michiel as well, I stand corrected. I know how silly it sounded, but usually there is some correlation between the image physical diamensions, size on disk and its pixel -size. Thanks alot for your advices in regard to the use in in canvs. Gilis On 22 ??????, 14:11, Michiel Spape wrote: > Just to add a little bit more to my previous mail: > When you say: 'although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well', it seems you fail to see what exactly digital images are. Images, in particular bitmap images, do not have a size *other than pixel-size*. As such, an image of 100 x 100 pixels will inevitably take up 100/1024 x 100/768 space on your monitor, should your monitor be set to 1024 x 768, unless you stretch the image over a different number of pixels (which usually leads to quality degrading results). > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 11:05 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: Uploading image > > Hi Liw, > thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the > meanwhile just wanted to add that > the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display > (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. > Best Wishes > GiliS > > On 22 ??????, 11:13, liwenna wrote: > > Hey Gilis, > > > The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your > > image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think > > the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in > > research, ?make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I > > am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your > > image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the > > displaysize e-prime uses.... > > > Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the > > current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels > > display for instance. > > > Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in > > pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over > > 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer > > and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your > > screen... ?If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply > > should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... > > > Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): > > when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's > > own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 > > pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't > > fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your > > experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the > > experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), > > choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual > > size of your display. > > > I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in > > your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at > > the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y > > coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your > > image now. > > > I hope it will be fixed this way! > > > Best of luck, > > > liw > > > On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only > > > recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which > > > participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to > > > the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli > > > is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I > > > always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the > > > edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the > > > slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. > > > > So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas > > > object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it > > > to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were > > > or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best > > > solution. > > > > So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in > > > any way. > > > > Regards > > > Gili > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 13:52:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:52:25 -0500 Subject: Uploading image In-Reply-To: <29473adf-598a-418c-91f7-1f3876f8de56@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Gili, Hmm, I don't think anyone mentioned the Stretch property of Image objects. Setting Stretch to "Yes" will stretch or shrink images of any pixel dimensions to exactly fit the Image frame in E-Prime (I use this feature myself to animate some displays). But you should still pay attention to what others have said about first trying to get the dimensions of your images to better match your screen dimensions. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > Thank you Michiel as well, > I stand corrected. I know how silly it sounded, but usually there is > some correlation between the image physical diamensions, size on disk > and its pixel -size. > Thanks alot for your advices in regard to the use in in canvs. > Gilis > > On 22 ??????, 14:11, Michiel Spape > wrote: >> Just to add a little bit more to my previous mail: >> When you say: 'although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well', it seems you fail to see what exactly digital images are. Images, in particular bitmap images, do not have a size *other than pixel-size*. As such, an image of 100 x 100 pixels will inevitably take up 100/1024 x 100/768 space on your monitor, should your monitor be set to 1024 x 768, unless you stretch the image over a different number of pixels (which usually leads to quality degrading results). >> Best, >> Mich >> >> Michiel Spap? >> Research Fellow >> Perception & Action group >> University of Nottingham >> School of Psychology >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis >> Sent: 22 February 2010 11:05 >> To: E-Prime >> Subject: Re: Uploading image >> >> Hi Liw, >> thanks for your detailed reply-I will try your solutions, in the >> meanwhile just wanted to add that >> the size of the Image is smaller than the size of the display >> (although I still have to see if it's true in pixels as well).. >> Best Wishes >> GiliS >> >> On 22 ??????, 11:13, liwenna wrote: >>> Hey Gilis, >>> The imageobject in the slideobject should be able to display your >>> image reliably in the way you wish it to be displayed... I don't think >>> the canvas object will solve your problem. But, as with everything in >>> research, make sure you've controlled all the necessary variables. I >>> am not too sure about what's going on but it seems to me that your >>> image is larger than either your display is, OR larger than the >>> displaysize e-prime uses.... >>> Under start menu, settings, control panel; display settings, find the >>> current size of your display in pixels.... I use a 1280*1024 pixels >>> display for instance. >>> Next: you mention your image is very big.... is it's actual size (in >>> pixels) bigger than your display is??? (in my case that would be over >>> 1280 or 1024 pixels on either dimension). Open the picture in viewer >>> and choose 'actual size' to see if it actually fits into your >>> screen... If not... use photoshop or gimp to resize it. You simply >>> should not use an imagesize that your display can't show ... >>> Third (and I actually think that this is where your problem lies): >>> when e-prime runs an experiment it resets the display settings to it's >>> own 'settings'. By default e-prime reconfigures the display to 640*480 >>> pixels. This means that if your image is bigger than that.. it won't >>> fit on the screen. It also means that pretty much everything in your >>> experiment will look rather 'chunky'. Go to the properties of the >>> experiment object (e-prime logo at the top of your experiment tree), >>> choose devices; choose display and set the display size to the actual >>> size of your display. >>> I guess you'd better reset all the properties of the imageobject in >>> your slide (size 100% you can resize later, or even better: set it at >>> the actual pixel dimensions your image has) and set the x and y >>> coordinates to center and have a look at how e-prime displays your >>> image now. >>> I hope it will be fixed this way! >>> Best of luck, >>> liw >>> On Feb 22, 8:39 am, gilis wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> I'm pretty "green" with Eprime and started to program with only >>>> recently. Anyway, I now have to program an experiment in which >>>> participants will have to make achoice and to indicate it in regard to >>>> the side of the image in which the stimuli have appeared. The stimuli >>>> is realy large one and so when I try to upload it to a slide object I >>>> always get the image presented truncated to different extents at the >>>> edegs of the screen. I tried to play with the size of the image in the >>>> slide object but I failed to get satisfaying results. >>>> So now my focus is on how the image can be uploaded through Canvas >>>> object but yet the knowledge I have in programing with Eprime turn it >>>> to a real sisyphean task and I don't even always what my mistakes were >>>> or way it didn't work, or if Canavas object is the only or the best >>>> solution. >>>> So, I would be very grateful to any one who could help me with this in >>>> any way. >>>> Regards >>>> Gili -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 14:44:09 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:44:09 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object Message-ID: Hi to all again, Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I hope: I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, left or right side of the display. I know that it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, center and right? Thanks, Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 15:59:16 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:59:16 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <34c591ef-bff8-4d97-ad94-cd30428962d7@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Gilis, I think this should work: Have an attribute in the list, let's say "posX". Refer to the x values of the bitmaps with [posX]. If I understood you correctly, the y value is not to be changed. If yes, this can also be done without problems. Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 This will set posX randomly to 200, 400 or 600 and of course you can change these values. However, if you really want to make sure that each subject had each condition equally often, you should go for setting this in the list. This is imho the more elegant way ;) Best, Tobias On 22 Feb., 15:44, gilis wrote: > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > Thanks, > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 15:59:39 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 07:59:39 -0800 Subject: critical timing (working with prerelease and event timing) Message-ID: Hello forum, I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the forum might have some ideas. I was sent an e-prime task, and I will be using it in conjunction with a physiological data collection system. I have figured out how to send TTL pulses from e-prime to the physio system, and have the physio data collection starting with a pulse from each block of the task. However, there is no way to offset the physio data collection with a pulse, so the offset of the physio data collection is specified by a user- defined duration. The problem I am running into is that each block of my task does not end at the same time each time I run it. After reading the critical timing chapter of the e-prime manual, I understand now why this is the case (at least in part). However, I am not sure how to fix this problem for my particular task. Presently there is no prerelease specified and all objects are set to event timing mode; I have questions about both of these options as they relate to this specific task: Prerelease: The task consists of several blocks, and within each block is a repeating sequence of events; a stimulus is shown for 3 seconds, the participant responds during that interval and is given on screen feedback as an overlay on the stimulus screen (the latency of the feedback presentation is contingent upon participants' response; regardless of participants' response the stimulus is displayed for 3 seconds), then there is a 500ms blank screen. After reading the critical timing chapter, I got the impression that one should not use prerelease on sequences including feedback. I get the sense that I may be able to have prerelease on some objects but not others, but it is very important that the data logging and feedback are correct for the task, so I am reluctant to use prerelease on anything. Thoughts? Event timing: Although I understand the difference between cumulative and event timing, I am still having a hard time grasping the implications of using each for my experiment; in particular I am not sure how each choice would impact data analysis. E-prime will be sending pulses to the physio machine that onset and offset with the onset and offset of each stimulus. I want to be able to look at physiological response to the stimuli (so it's an "event-related" design). Given my question, I'm not sure about the relative pros and cons of event and cumulative timing and what impact that decision will have on my attempts to analyze the data. I am reluctant to change it to cumulative timing because the task was made with "event timing" set. Again, it seems like here too it might be best to use event timing on certain objects and cumulative timing on others, but I'm not sure what impact this would actually have on the experiment or which objects to use what timing on. Thank you so much for your help Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:01:32 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:01:32 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer Message-ID: Hello forum, I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the forum might have some ideas. I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the "Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). I previously had the task running with an inline script following the stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 End If At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without using inline code. As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly timed with. Thanks, Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 16:13:09 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:13:09 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <34c591ef-bff8-4d97-ad94-cd30428962d7@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Gilis, What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 To: E-Prime Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object Hi to all again, Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I hope: I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, left or right side of the display. I know that it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, center and right? Thanks, Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:17:34 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:17:34 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <30bf1aba-2ff1-434e-95f0-361349fce2ab@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. here's what i would do: put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). the script in the inline would be something like this: Do Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the LetterStimulus object. how's that? ben On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim wrote: > Hello forum, > > I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > forum might have some ideas. > > I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > "Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > End If > > At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > using inline code. > > As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > timed with. > > Thanks, > Jim > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 16:35:02 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:35:02 -0500 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD2C@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Gilis, As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is pretty much the "E-Prime way". However, if you mean to combinatorically mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other attributes, then you might look into nested Lists. In that case, first work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas. And of course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > Cheers, > Mich > > > > > > > > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > > Thanks, > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:51:28 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:51:28 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <4B82B236.5040605@msu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks David, BTW, just tried to open the link and it seem to be a dead one-can you post it again please? Best Wishes Gilis On 22 ??????, 18:35, David McFarlane wrote: > Gilis, > > As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is > pretty much the "E-Prime way". ?However, if you mean to combinatorically > mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other > attributes, then you might look into nested Lists. ?In that case, first > work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide > that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas. ?And of > course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > Michiel Spape wrote: > > Hi Gilis, > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spap > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:53:26 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:53:26 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So simple, so true...How couldn't I see that ;) Thanks a lot! Gilis On 22 ??????, 17:59, Tobias wrote: > Hi Gilis, > > I think this should work: Have an attribute in the list, let's say > "posX". Refer to the x values of the bitmaps with [posX]. If I > understood you correctly, the y value is not to be changed. If yes, > this can also be done without problems. > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > dim x as integer > x = random(1,3) > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 > > This will set posX randomly to 200, 400 or 600 and of course you can > change these values. > However, if you really want to make sure that each subject had each > condition equally often, you should go for setting this in the list. > This is imho the more elegant way ;) > > Best, > Tobias > > On 22 Feb., 15:44, gilis wrote: > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 17:01:08 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:01:08 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <49730d43-0390-4dc6-bc89-e8fe03d03b6c@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Seems fine here: http://www.cognitology.eu/about_me.htm below everything else. PDF takes some time to load, so I'd suggest right-clicking and using "save link as". One of these days, I should really try to update things (both book and website). I guess PST has infected me! Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 16:51 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object Thanks David, BTW, just tried to open the link and it seem to be a dead one-can you post it again please? Best Wishes Gilis On 22 ??????, 18:35, David McFarlane wrote: > Gilis, > > As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is > pretty much the "E-Prime way". ?However, if you mean to combinatorically > mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other > attributes, then you might look into nested Lists. ?In that case, first > work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide > that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas. ?And of > course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > Michiel Spape wrote: > > Hi Gilis, > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spap > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Feb 22 17:19:27 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:19:27 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <52f0e9d7-e431-4637-88e0-989eff0a5651@i39g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Gilis, Yes, I noticed it sounded very matlabby :) Matlab is awesome in terms of arrays, but I'm happy enough that E-Prime at least has this randomiseArray, er randomizeArray, function. Here's how you can do about the same: Dim locs() as integer Dim I as integer For i = 1 to 640 Locs(i) = i Next i RandomizeArray Locs 'this would be Locs = RandomizeArray(Locs) in Matlab style ...or something of that sort to obtain 640 values which you can later insert in your trial (e.g. if a slide has an image with x value referencing [myX] and you have a trial-counter called trialnum, then something like c.SetAttrib "myX", Locs(trialnum) Personally, I get heavily frustrated by the usage of (E-)Basic ()s which seems rather arbitrary, their lack of []s to reference arrays as in C, and can't quite wrap my mind around how all that is yet different in Matlab (including the added {}s)! Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 22 February 2010 16:50 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object Hi Mich, Sure it make a little sense, it was just an hypothetical example ;) - meaning that I was trying to find a way to randomize three dichotomic values (e.g., a , c and d without the sequence between them). Somehow "RandomizeArray" was associatively connected in my mind with similar suffix functions from Matlab -I was sure it can be done in Eprime as well...For the present experiment I will use the list, but anyway wanted to know the alternatives. Thank you very much for the link, I hope to use it intensively. Cheers Gilis On 22 ??????, 18:13, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > Thanks, > Gilis > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 16:50:13 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:50:13 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD2C@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Sure it make a little sense, it was just an hypothetical example ;) - meaning that I was trying to find a way to randomize three dichotomic values (e.g., a , c and d without the sequence between them). Somehow "RandomizeArray" was associatively connected in my mind with similar suffix functions from Matlab -I was sure it can be done in Eprime as well...For the present experiment I will use the list, but anyway wanted to know the alternatives. Thank you very much for the link, I hope to use it intensively. Cheers Gilis On 22 ??????, 18:13, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi to all again, > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > hope: > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > left or right side > of the display. > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > center and right? > > Thanks, > Gilis > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 18:29:46 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:29:46 -0500 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <081efad2-7159-410d-aeb2-b4811eb9f758@g11g2000yqe.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > > > dim x as integer > > x = random(1,3) > > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 Just can't let this sit (even though Mich & I disagree on this point of programming style :) ), so here is the same code in two more different styles: dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 elseif x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 elseif x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 end if or dim x as integer select case random(1,3) case 1 c.setattrib "posX", 200 case 2 c.setattrib "posX", 400 case 3 c.setattrib "posX", 600 end select -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 19:28:09 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:28:09 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD78@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Well, there is at the very least two things can be done in PST but not in E-prime 1. Gabor patch 2. Controling the luminance level for each stimuli within the program itself. That's at least what I learn in person when I worked on my thesis (transient attention)..Great list of publications you have-I liked! Best Gilis On 22 ??????, 19:01, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Seems fine here:http://www.cognitology.eu/about_me.htmbelow everything else. PDF takes some time to load, so I'd suggest right-clicking and using "save link as". > > One of these days, I should really try to update things (both book and website). I guess PST has infected me! > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:51 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Thanks David, > BTW, just tried to open the link and it seem to be a dead one-can you > post it again please? > Best Wishes > Gilis > > On 22 ??????, 18:35, David McFarlane wrote: > > Gilis, > > > As Michiel says, setting out the full set of combinations into a List is > > pretty much the "E-Prime way". ?However, if you mean to combinatorically > > mix one set of attributes (e.g., stimulus location) with other > > attributes, then you might look into nested Lists. ?In that case, first > > work through the Nested List tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide > > that came with E-Prime, and see if that gives you any ideas. ?And of > > course, do also look through Michiel's E-Primer. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > Michiel Spape wrote: > > > Hi Gilis, > > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > > Cheers, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > > To: E-Prime > > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > > Hi to all again, > > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > > hope: > > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > > left or right side > > > of the display. > > > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > > center and right? > > > > Thanks, > > > Gilis > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 19:19:23 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:19:23 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <4b82cd4d.5344f10a.709f.1b3cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Select Case is my favorite condition, for some kinky reason :) Great forum you build here! Gilis On 22 ??????, 20:29, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > > > dim x as integer > > > x = random(1,3) > > > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > > > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > > > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 > > Just can't let this sit (even though Mich & I disagree on this point > of programming style :) ), so here is the same code in two more > different styles: > > dim x as integer > x = random(1,3) > if x = 1 then > ? ? ?c.setattrib "posX", 200 > elseif x = 2 then > ? ? ?c.setattrib "posX", 400 > elseif x = 3 then > ? ? ?c.setattrib "posX", 600 > end if > > or > > dim x as integer > select case random(1,3) > ? ?case 1 > ? ? ?c.setattrib "posX", 200 > ? ?case 2 > ? ? ?c.setattrib "posX", 400 > ? ?case 3 > ? ? ?c.setattrib "posX", 600 > end select > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Feb 22 19:43:33 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:43:33 -0800 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CECD8D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I meant PTB and not PST...as I told, very "green" in here..;) On 22 ??????, 19:19, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Gilis, > Yes, I noticed it sounded very matlabby :) Matlab is awesome in terms of arrays, but I'm happy enough that E-Prime at least has this randomiseArray, er randomizeArray, function. Here's how you can do about the same: > Dim locs() as integer > Dim I as integer > > For i = 1 to 640 > ? ? ? ? Locs(i) = i > Next i > > RandomizeArray Locs ? ? 'this would be Locs = RandomizeArray(Locs) in Matlab style > > ...or something of that sort to obtain 640 values which you can later insert in your trial (e.g. if a slide has an image with x value referencing [myX] and you have a trial-counter called trialnum, then something like c.SetAttrib "myX", Locs(trialnum) > > Personally, I get heavily frustrated by the usage of (E-)Basic ()s which seems rather arbitrary, their lack of []s to reference arrays as in C, and can't quite wrap my mind around how all that is yet different in Matlab (including the added {}s)! > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 22 February 2010 16:50 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Hi Mich, > > Sure it make a little sense, it was just an hypothetical example ;) - > meaning that I was trying to find a way to randomize three dichotomic > values (e.g., a , c and d without the sequence between them). > Somehow ? "RandomizeArray" ?was associatively connected in my mind > with similar suffix functions from Matlab -I was sure it can be done > in Eprime as well...For the present experiment I will use the list, > but anyway wanted to know the alternatives. Thank you very much for > the link, I hope to use it ?intensively. > Cheers > Gilis > > On 22 ??????, 18:13, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Hi Gilis, > > What may be unelegant programming-wise, I often find much better psychologically, for some reason! That is, yes, it seems like an awful lot to tell a programme to use "red", "green", "blue" for a Stroop task and then having to bother with setting all 9 combinations, rather than, for example, setting one attribute (congruence) and using a little script to randomly set colours and words. Still, I would advise you to use the list anyway; it provides much more clarity for yourself and others, its randomising tends to give better results than randomizing with replacement, and, well, you don't need to learn so much E-Basic programming. > > > Anyway, we have discussed randomising location fully and thoroughly in the seminal E-Primer (www.cognitology.eu, under references) and the easiest would be just to use percentage. I don't see where 'side' comes in... Just use two attributes [XLoc], [YLoc] if you will, use % values in your list and voila. > > > "c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4)" > > ...makes very little sense. If you are using "Side" to set your location, why do you want to fill it (I guess) with 1, 3 or 4? Are those pixels? 3 is about 2 pixels to the right of 1... Are you trying to randomize a list? If you have many combinations, I suggest looking up nested lists in the user guide / getting started guide. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spap? > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > > Sent: 22 February 2010 14:44 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > > Hi to all again, > > > Appologize for bothring the forum again, but it's not a too hard one I > > hope: > > I want the computer to randomly present the stimuli in the center, > > left or right side > > of the display. > > > I know that ?it can be done easily by adding attribute ("side") in the > > trial list with values of left right or center and then to define the > > X axis of the image in the slide object as [side] and that's all. > > > However, this method means that I have to insert manualy all different > > combinations -and it's not an elegant solution. > > > I tried to define side as a new attribute in an inline object this way > > > c.SetAttrib "side", RandomizeArray(1,3,4) > > > of course-it didn't work and I tried many different configurations and > > randomization commands. With which command can I randomize left, > > center and right? > > > Thanks, > > Gilis > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 22:52:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:52:25 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51002220817r7efe1ceci370851fcb912a0d2@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: Jim, First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct response targets". By way of background, if you search this Group using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed several approaches to that. Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. It should just work for you. Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand the intricacies of PreRelease. Sadly, PST does not do a very good job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill effects). For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final object to score the .ACC if needed. Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. Then I just lay down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! Yes, I know that is excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems in several contexts. If it were up to me I would just make Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. >here's what i would do: > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). >the script in the inline would be something like this: >Do >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the >LetterStimulus object. > >how's that? > >ben > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim ><jjprisciandaro at gmail.com> wrote: >Hello forum, > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the >forum might have some ideas. > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 >End If > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without >using inline code. > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly >timed with. > >Thanks, >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Feb 22 22:54:22 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:54:22 -0500 Subject: critical timing (working with prerelease and event timing) In-Reply-To: <0afbd710-25ed-4e45-b903-75c0ee583919@u20g2000yqu.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, Please see my comments in your thread, "scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer". (OK, now I'm late for my yoga class, and I really need the exercise.) -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hello forum, > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the >forum might have some ideas. > >I was sent an e-prime task, and I will be using it in conjunction with >a physiological data collection system. I have figured out how to send >TTL pulses from e-prime to the physio system, and have the physio data >collection starting with a pulse from each block of the task. However, >there is no way to offset the physio data collection with a pulse, so >the offset of the physio data collection is specified by a user- >defined duration. > >The problem I am running into is that each block of my task does not >end at the same time each time I run it. After reading the critical >timing chapter of the e-prime manual, I understand now why this is the >case (at least in part). However, I am not sure how to fix this >problem for my particular task. Presently there is no prerelease >specified and all objects are set to event timing mode; I have >questions about both of these options as they relate to this specific >task: > >Prerelease: The task consists of several blocks, and within each block >is a repeating sequence of events; a stimulus is shown for 3 seconds, >the participant responds during that interval and is given on screen >feedback as an overlay on the stimulus screen (the latency of the >feedback presentation is contingent upon participants' response; >regardless of participants' response the stimulus is displayed for 3 >seconds), then there is a 500ms blank screen. After reading the >critical timing chapter, I got the impression that one should not use >prerelease on sequences including feedback. I get the sense that I may >be able to have prerelease on some objects but not others, but it is >very important that the data logging and feedback are correct for the >task, so I am reluctant to use prerelease on anything. Thoughts? > >Event timing: Although I understand the difference between cumulative >and event timing, I am still having a hard time grasping the >implications of using each for my experiment; in particular I am not >sure how each choice would impact data analysis. E-prime will be >sending pulses to the physio machine that onset and offset with the >onset and offset of each stimulus. I want to be able to look at >physiological response to the stimuli (so it's an "event-related" >design). Given my question, I'm not sure about the relative pros and >cons of event and cumulative timing and what impact that decision will >have on my attempts to analyze the data. I am reluctant to change it >to cumulative timing because the task was made with "event timing" >set. Again, it seems like here too it might be best to use event >timing on certain objects and cumulative timing on others, but I'm not >sure what impact this would actually have on the experiment or which >objects to use what timing on. > >Thank you so much for your help >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Feb 23 10:34:03 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:34:03 -0000 Subject: Randomizing image position in a slide object In-Reply-To: <4b82cd4d.5344f10a.709f.1b3cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: I think you meant Tobias, who wrote dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 ...rather than my... Dim Locs() as integer Dim i as integer For i = 1 to 640 Locs(i) = i Next i RandomizeArray Locs As I tried to explain usage of RandomizeArray... Still, my choice for your example, without randomized arrays would be: dim x as integer c.SetAttrib "posX", 200 * random(1,3) Hatsekidee! Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 22 February 2010 18:30 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Randomizing image position in a slide object > > Well, have an inline like this before the display appears: > > > > dim x as integer > > x = random(1,3) > > if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 > > if x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 > > if x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 Just can't let this sit (even though Mich & I disagree on this point of programming style :) ), so here is the same code in two more different styles: dim x as integer x = random(1,3) if x = 1 then c.setattrib "posX", 200 elseif x = 2 then c.setattrib "posX", 400 elseif x = 3 then c.setattrib "posX", 600 end if or dim x as integer select case random(1,3) case 1 c.setattrib "posX", 200 case 2 c.setattrib "posX", 400 case 3 c.setattrib "posX", 600 end select -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 15:05:38 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:05:38 -0800 Subject: critical timing (working with prerelease and event timing) In-Reply-To: <4b830b52.5344f10a.7089.22a5SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Namaste David, Thanks, I'll reply in the other post. Jim On Feb 22, 5:54?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > Please see my comments in your thread, "scoring a nonresponse as a > correct answer". > > (OK, now I'm late for my yoga class, and I really need the exercise.) > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hello forum, > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > >forum might have some ideas. > > >I was sent an e-prime task, and I will be using it in conjunction with > >a physiological data collection system. I have figured out how to send > >TTL pulses from e-prime to the physio system, and have the physio data > >collection starting with a pulse from each block of the task. However, > >there is no way to offset the physio data collection with a pulse, so > >the offset of the physio data collection is specified by a user- > >defined duration. > > >The problem I am running into is that each block of my task does not > >end at the same time each time I run it. After reading the critical > >timing chapter of the e-prime manual, I understand now why this is the > >case (at least in part). However, I am not sure how to fix this > >problem for my particular task. Presently there is no prerelease > >specified and all objects are set to event timing mode; I have > >questions about both of these options as they relate to this specific > >task: > > >Prerelease: The task consists of several blocks, and within each block > >is a repeating sequence of events; a stimulus is shown for 3 seconds, > >the participant responds during that interval and is given on screen > >feedback as an overlay on the stimulus screen (the latency of the > >feedback presentation is contingent upon participants' response; > >regardless of participants' response the stimulus is displayed for 3 > >seconds), then there is a 500ms blank screen. After reading the > >critical timing chapter, I got the impression that one should not use > >prerelease on sequences including feedback. I get the sense that I may > >be able to have prerelease on some objects but not others, but it is > >very important that the data logging and feedback are correct for the > >task, so I am reluctant to use prerelease on anything. Thoughts? > > >Event timing: Although I understand the difference between cumulative > >and event timing, I am still having a hard time grasping the > >implications of using each for my experiment; in particular I am not > >sure how each choice would impact data analysis. E-prime will be > >sending pulses to the physio machine that onset and offset with the > >onset and offset of each stimulus. I want to be able to look at > >physiological response to the stimuli (so it's an "event-related" > >design). Given my question, I'm not sure about the relative pros and > >cons of event and cumulative timing and what impact that decision will > >have on my attempts to analyze the data. I am reluctant to change it > >to cumulative timing because the task was made with "event timing" > >set. Again, it seems like here too it might be best to use event > >timing on certain objects and cumulative timing on others, but I'm not > >sure what impact this would actually have on the experiment or which > >objects to use what timing on. > > >Thank you so much for your help > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 16:00:01 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b830add.5344f10a.7089.2296SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. David: "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final object to score the .ACC if needed." Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data logging. Is this a correct assumption? Thanks, Jim On Feb 22, 5:52?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > response targets". ?By way of background, if you search this Group > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > several approaches to that. > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? ?I > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. ?It > should just work for you. > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > the intricacies of PreRelease. ?Sadly, PST does not do a very good > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > effects). ?For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. ?Then I just lay > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! ?Yes, I know that is > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > in several contexts. ?If it were up to me I would just make > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > >here's what i would do: > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > >Do > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > >LetterStimulus object. > > >how's that? > > >ben > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > >Hello forum, > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > >forum might have some ideas. > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > >End If > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > >using inline code. > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > >timed with. > > >Thanks, > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From morgbri at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 16:43:07 2010 From: morgbri at gmail.com (Bri Morgan) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:43:07 -0800 Subject: key release timing Message-ID: I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0. Subjects will be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on the screen. The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount of time (avg 1250 ms). We need to log the time from when a subject releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 16:21:20 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:21:20 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: you say both your stim and the subsequent blank screen objects are recording responses? i would recommend that you set the stim to terminate after 250ms without prerelease, set the response window duration to 1250 ms, and do all the prerelease stuff at the end of your 1000 ms blank screen without expecting the blank screen to record any responses. the benefit to using only a single object to collect responses is mainly that it gives you a cleaner data file - you only need to look within a single column to see all the responses or non-responses, rather than look at multiple columns belonging to multiple E-Objects (stim and blank). that would be my preference... On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim wrote: > Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's > response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that > it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > > David: > "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > > By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any > leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be > incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > > "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > object to score the .ACC if needed." > > Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final > object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. > For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a > letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants > responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other > experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > > One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no > inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data > logging. Is this a correct assumption? > > Thanks, > Jim > > > > On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > response targets". By way of background, if you search this Group > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? I > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. It > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > the intricacies of PreRelease. Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > effects). For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. Then I just lay > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! Yes, I know that is > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > in several contexts. If it were up to me I would just make > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the > prerelease. > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > >Do > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > > >using inline code. > > > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > > >timed with. > > > > >Thanks, > > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From morgbri at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 17:55:24 2010 From: morgbri at gmail.com (Bri Morgan) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:55:24 -0800 Subject: key release timing In-Reply-To: <4b841045.5344f10a.70cb.7ec8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Is the only way to record releases using an SRBox? On Feb 23, 12:27?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Bri, > > First, use the search feature of this group with a term like > "release" and browse through the results, that should give you some > fuel to puzzle over for awhile. ?Then if you still have more specific > difficulties write back. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > >I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0. ?Subjects will > >be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" > >key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on > >the screen. ?The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount > >of time (avg 1250 ms). ?We need to log the time from when a subject > >releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. > >Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the > >subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. > > >Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? > > >Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 17:27:43 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 12:27:43 -0500 Subject: key release timing In-Reply-To: <9d899c00-6472-4fd5-b9f7-dcc2a489745a@y26g2000vbb.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Bri, First, use the search feature of this group with a term like "release" and browse through the results, that should give you some fuel to puzzle over for awhile. Then if you still have more specific difficulties write back. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0. Subjects will >be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" >key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on >the screen. The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount >of time (avg 1250 ms). We need to log the time from when a subject >releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. >Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the >subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. > >Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? > >Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 19:07:04 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:07:04 -0500 Subject: key release timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bri, Oh, no, sorry if you got that impression. You can record releases from any response device. Please look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic of the online E-Basic Help. The E-Prime manuals may also cover this a bit so take a look there as well (note that you can use the search feature in the .pdfs of the manuals). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Is the only way to record releases using an SRBox? > >On Feb 23, 12:27 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Bri, > > > > First, use the search feature of this group with a term like > > "release" and browse through the results, that should give you some > > fuel to puzzle over for awhile. Then if you still have more specific > > difficulties write back. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > >I am trying to create an experiment using E Prime 2.0. Subjects will > > >be holding down a "Start" key and then asked to release the "Start" > > >key and press a different "Target" key when a "Go" signal appears on > > >the screen. The "Go" signal will be presented after a variable amount > > >of time (avg 1250 ms). We need to log the time from when a subject > > >releases the start key to when he or she presses a "Target" key. > > >Additionally, we would like to measure the time between when the > > >subject sees the "Go" signal to when they release the "Start" key. > > > > >Is this possible using E Prime 2.0? > > > > >Thanks so much for you time. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Feb 23 16:57:48 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:57:48 -0000 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Speaking before my turn, but I thought perhaps the only issue you have is due to a 'pending' response, which is not exactly the same as an inaccurate or accurate response. Does the display to which you have an accurate or inaccurate response perhaps one that has a certain time limit? If I have a simple screen with time limit 10000 ms and duration 100 ms, for example, this is logged as ACC = 0 (just tested). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: 23 February 2010 16:00 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. David: "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final object to score the .ACC if needed." Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data logging. Is this a correct assumption? Thanks, Jim On Feb 22, 5:52?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > response targets". ?By way of background, if you search this Group > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > several approaches to that. > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? ?I > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. ?It > should just work for you. > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > the intricacies of PreRelease. ?Sadly, PST does not do a very good > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > effects). ?For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. ?Then I just lay > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! ?Yes, I know that is > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > in several contexts. ?If it were up to me I would just make > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > >here's what i would do: > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > >Do > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > >LetterStimulus object. > > >how's that? > > >ben > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > >Hello forum, > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > >forum might have some ideas. > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > >End If > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > >using inline code. > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > >timed with. > > >Thanks, > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 21:44:15 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:44:15 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02CED13A@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mich -- Good catch! Of course I had to try and verify this for myself, and as you outlined, if the Time Limit extends around to the next use of the same object, then E-Prime never gets to score the non-response and .ACC gets stuck with the default value of 0. Whenever I have used non-responses in the past of course I used either self-paced trials with End Action = Terminate, or I had better contained Time Limits, so I never noticed this until you mentioned it. Jim -- Ben's response refers to the use of what PST calls "Extended Input", you can learn about that in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. If you do not do this already, then only the letter object should collect the response, throughout its Duration and the Duration of the following blank period, using Extended Input (i.e., setting Time Limit to the sum of both Durations). If you cannot use a constant Time Limit then you will need some code to set it each time. Also, as explained in Chapter 3, PreRelease *can* interfere with data logging even if there is no inline scoring code, in particular if you get a response during a PreRelease right at the end of a Procedure. E.g., if your final stimuls/response object has a Duration of 1000 ms and a PreRelease of 200 ms, then E-Prime will run the object for just 1000 - 200 = 800 ms and then move on log responses, end the trial procedure, prepare the next object (i.e., the first object of the next trial) and then wait for the new object's .TargetOnsetTime. If your subject responds during that final 200 ms PreRelease window then it comes *after* responses have already been logged and will not be logged itself. So please read through that section again. Understanding PreRelease gets tricky, and I try to give beginners some rules of thumb such as, (1) if your Procedure collects a response, then do not use PreRelease, (2) if your Procedure does *not* collect any response then feel free to use any PreRelease that you like, (3) if you do use a PreRelease, don't bother overthinking it, just make it some arbitrarily large value. This is Draconian, and may well lead to some timing inaccuracies, but in general we fear losing responses more than we fear bad timing, and we can deal with the timing issues just for those cases where it matters. Finally, I will repeat that no one should ever take my word (much less the E-Prime documentation's word!) for anything -- you should think up as many specific test cases as you can and make as many short demo programs as you need to convince yourself of how things really work. All we can do here is give you a few hints of paths to try. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/23/2010 11:57 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >Hi, >Speaking before my turn, but I thought perhaps >the only issue you have is due to a 'pending' >response, which is not exactly the same as an >inaccurate or accurate response. Does the >display to which you have an accurate or >inaccurate response perhaps one that has a >certain time limit? If I have a simple screen >with time limit 10000 ms and duration 100 ms, >for example, this is logged as ACC = 0 (just tested). >Cheers, >Mich > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim >Sent: 23 February 2010 16:00 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Re: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer > >Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's >response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that >it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > >David: >"I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of >no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and >any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > >By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any >leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be >incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > >"For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial >itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the >onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use >PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final >object to score the .ACC if needed." > >Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final >object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. >For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a >letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants >responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other >experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > >One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no >inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data >logging. Is this a correct assumption? > >Thanks, >Jim > > > >On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > response targets". By way of background, if you search this Group > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? I > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. It > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > the intricacies of PreRelease. Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > effects). For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. Then I just lay > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! Yes, I know that is > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > in several contexts. If it were up to me I would just make > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > >Do > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > > >using inline code. > > > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > > >timed with. > > > > >Thanks, > > >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 21:51:53 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:51:53 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51002230821p251a0f38n52af247dd3a1017c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Ben: I mispoke, only the stimulus is recording responses and it has a response window duration of 1250ms just as you said. On this particular task, I don't want to mess with pre-release because the scanner paradigm has already been used/validated by someone in my lab with 100ms prerelease on every object. I just want to figure out how to score non-response without inline code (the person who used the task before me did not log responses). Michiel: I'm not following you, so I will give more detail about the procedure of the task and maybe this will answer your question. Each trial presents a letter in the middle of a black screen for 250ms (with a response window duration of 1250ms) followed by a black screen (with no letter) for 1000ms. Thanks! Jim On Feb 23, 11:21?am, ben robinson wrote: > you say both your stim and the subsequent blank screen objects are recording > responses? > i would recommend that you set the stim to terminate after 250ms without > prerelease, set the response window duration to 1250 ms, and do all the > prerelease stuff at the end of your 1000 ms blank screen without expecting > the blank screen to record any responses. ?the benefit to using only a > single object to collect responses is mainly that it gives you a cleaner > data file - you only need to look within a single column to see all the > responses or non-responses, rather than look at multiple columns belonging > to multiple E-Objects (stim and blank). ?that would be my preference... > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim wrote: > > Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's > > response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that > > it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > > > David: > > "I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > > > By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any > > leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be > > incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > > > "For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > object to score the .ACC if needed." > > > Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final > > object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. > > For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a > > letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants > > responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other > > experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > > > One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no > > inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data > > logging. Is this a correct assumption? > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > > response targets". ?By way of background, if you search this Group > > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? ?I > > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. ?It > > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > > the intricacies of PreRelease. ?Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > > effects). ?For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. ?Then I just lay > > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! ?Yes, I know that is > > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > > in several contexts. ?If it were up to me I would just make > > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the > > prerelease. > > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > > >Do > > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > > >I want to remove the inline code. However, when I was using this code, > > > >nonresponses were scored as correct for X trials. Please let me know > > > >how I can have nonresponses scored as correct for X trials without > > > >using inline code. > > > > >As an aside, I removed the inline code because I am concerned that it > > > >will be executed too early. Each trial consists of the presentation of > > > >a letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms)- both > > > >objects have a 100ms prerelease. Once the letter is presented, > > > >participants have until the end of the blank screen (1250ms later) to > > > >make a response. I prevously had the inline script following the blank > > > >screen object ("ISI"). I've been reading the critical timing chapter > > > >of the eprime manual which made me concerned that if participants made > > > >a response between 1150 and 1250ms their response will not be scored > > > >with inline code because of the 100ms prerelease on the blank screen. > > > >A complicating factor, is that I can't change the timing of the task > > > >whatsoever, it has an associated fMRI program that it must be tightly > > > >timed with. > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Jim- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 22:06:38 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:06:38 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, >I don't want to mess with pre-release because the >scanner paradigm has already been used/validated by someone in my lab >with 100ms prerelease on every object. That 100 ms PreRelease is almost certainly an artifact of E-Prime defaults, and not a deliberate choice on the part of your developer. When you switch an object from Event to Cumulative timing mode then EP automatically imposes a default PreRelease of 100 ms, and unless the developer edits that then that is what you get left with whether it helps or not. As an exercise, you definitely should try setting PreRelease to 0 and then test the timing/sychnonization for yourself. Even without changes, you must personally shake down every program you use, I don't want to repeat the horror story we had here a few years back. If it takes you half an hour to sit through a timing verification run, then so be it, although with some cleverness you can speed things up using Clock.Scale. But in any case, you must, MUST personally shake down every program you use. I cannot stress that enough. And as long as you are shaking down that program, you might as well try some changes and learn a few things. Above all, do NOT get into a rush -- as my own graduate advisor told me many years ago, scientific research is a deliberative process and not a business to be done in a rush. Or have the times changed that much? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 22:04:28 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:04:28 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b844c66.5844f10a.1435.ffff8d06SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks David, I was typing my last response while you posted this! I think I understand Mich's response now. Essentially, there needs to be a gap between the end of the response interval of a given stimulus and the presentation of the next instance of the same stimulus? What would be the least disruptive way to change my task so that non- responses are correctly logged (e.g., should I change the response duration to 1249ms)? Also just to make sure I'm clear on this, Is this problem related to the fact that my objects have 100ms of prerelease or is this a totally separate issue? I read the timing chapter twice and the prerelease section more than that; unfortunately I am still very confused. Your general guidelines help. From your description, it really seems like one should not use prerelease if they are logging responses. Or I'm just misunderstanding you :) Also, David, I wanted to give an update on my other posting that you responded to here (the one that has a task with feedback synching with physio data collection). I tried setting all objects to cumulative mode. Timing was relatively repeatable accross runs (give or take a millisecond); however, when I responded to the stimuli instead of just letting the task run without responses, the timing was not repeatable (30-50ms off). I am not using prerelease with this task; participants are given feedback and I don't want it to interfere. Any ideas? Thanks, Jim On Feb 23, 4:44?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Mich -- Good catch! ?Of course I had to try and > verify this for myself, and as you outlined, if > the Time Limit extends around to the next use of > the same object, then E-Prime never gets to score > the non-response and .ACC gets stuck with the > default value of 0. ?Whenever I have used > non-responses in the past of course I used either > self-paced trials with End Action = Terminate, or > I had better contained Time Limits, so I never > noticed this until you mentioned it. > > Jim -- Ben's response refers to the use of what > PST calls "Extended Input", you can learn about > that in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came > with E-Prime. ?If you do not do this already, > then only the letter object should collect the > response, throughout its Duration and the > Duration of the following blank period, using > Extended Input (i.e., setting Time Limit to the > sum of both Durations). ?If you cannot use a > constant Time Limit then you will need some code to set it each time. > > Also, as explained in Chapter 3, PreRelease *can* > interfere with data logging even if there is no > inline scoring code, in particular if you get a > response during a PreRelease right at the end of > a Procedure. ?E.g., if your final > stimuls/response object has a Duration of 1000 ms > and a PreRelease of 200 ms, then E-Prime will run > the object for just 1000 - 200 = 800 ms and then > move on log responses, end the trial procedure, > prepare the next object (i.e., the first object > of the next trial) and then wait for the new > object's .TargetOnsetTime. ?If your subject > responds during that final 200 ms PreRelease > window then it comes *after* responses have > already been logged and will not be logged > itself. ?So please read through that section > again. ?Understanding PreRelease gets tricky, and > I try to give beginners some rules of thumb such > as, ?(1) if your Procedure collects a response, > then do not use PreRelease, ?(2) if your > Procedure does *not* collect any response then > feel free to use any PreRelease that you > like, ?(3) if you do use a PreRelease, don't > bother overthinking it, just make it some > arbitrarily large value. ?This is Draconian, and > may well lead to some timing inaccuracies, but in > general we fear losing responses more than we > fear bad timing, and we can deal with the timing > issues just for those cases where it matters. > > Finally, I will repeat that no one should ever > take my word (much less the E-Prime > documentation's word!) for anything -- you should > think up as many specific test cases as you can > and make as many short demo programs as you need > to convince yourself of how things really > work. ?All we can do here is give you a few hints of paths to try. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 2/23/2010 11:57 AM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > >Hi, > >Speaking before my turn, but I thought perhaps > >the only issue you have is due to a 'pending' > >response, which is not exactly the same as an > >inaccurate or accurate response. Does the > >display to which you have an accurate or > >inaccurate response perhaps one that has a > >certain time limit? If I have a simple screen > >with time limit 10000 ms and duration 100 ms, > >for example, this is logged as ACC = 0 (just tested). > >Cheers, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim > >Sent: 23 February 2010 16:00 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Re: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer > > >Ben: Thanks, this is a creative solution. However, as per David's > >response, it seems like there is something wrong with my task and that > >it should be able to correctly score nonresponses without inline code. > > >David: > >"I myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > >no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > >any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me." > > >By reading the description above of my experiment, do you have any > >leads as to what might be causing the no-response trials to be > >incorrectly scored? I'm stumped. > > >"For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > >itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > >onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > >PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > >object to score the .ACC if needed." > > >Unfortunately, I don't think this will be helpful because the final > >object in the trial procedure is still logging participants responses. > >For this particular experiement, the trial procedure consists of a > >letter (250ms), and subsequently a blank screen (1000ms); participants > >responses are logged during both of these objects. For my other > >experiments, the inline scoring code is used in the trial itself. > > >One related question/clarification: I am assuming that if there is no > >inline scoring code that prerelease doesn't interfere with data > >logging. Is this a correct assumption? > > >Thanks, > >Jim > > >On Feb 22, 5:52 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > First, your earlier designed used what I call "multiple correct > > > response targets". ?By way of background, if you search this Group > > > using terms like that then you will find where we have discussed > > > several approaches to that. > > > > Second, I wonder if something else is going on in your program? ?I > > > myself have used a blank [Correct] to score the accuracy of > > > no-response trials (where the absence of a response is correct and > > > any other response is incorrect) and that worked fine for me. ?It > > > should just work for you. > > > > Third, you might want to study Chapter 3 further to better understand > > > the intricacies of PreRelease. ?Sadly, PST does not do a very good > > > job of explaining it, and in fact the whole PreRelease mechanism > > > provides much more granularity than users need or want (should be > > > just on or off -- whenever I use PreRelease I just set it to some > > > arbitrarily large value, often larger than the Duration, with no ill > > > effects). ?For instance, if you do not use the .ACC within the trial > > > itself (only to log it) and know the response will come before the > > > onset of the final object in trial Procedure, then you can safely use > > > PreRelease with abandon and then use inline code after the final > > > object to score the .ACC if needed. > > > > Fourth, whenever I teach E-Prime for fMRI, I first briefly explain > > > the difference between Event and Cumulative timing. ?Then I just lay > > > down the law and tell students, for fMRI, just make things easy and > > > set *every* object to Cumulative timing!! ?Yes, I know that is > > > excessive, but I have yet to find a case where Cumulative timing > > > creates a problem, whereas Event timing is known to create problems > > > in several contexts. ?If it were up to me I would just make > > > Cumulative the default and then only allow users to choose Event mode > > > if they think it really applies to their study (back when I wrote > > > everything in C I did everything in what E-Prime calls "Cumulative" > > > timing mode, it just seemed cleaner and took no real programming effort). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 2/22/2010 11:17 AM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >i think you'll need to use an inline to do this, but i also think > > > >you can mostly avoid the complications introduced by using the prerelease. > > > >here's what i would do: > > > > >put your inline after the 1000 ms blank screen, knowing that the > > > >inline code may be read as early as 900 ms into the blank screen's > > > >duration (and only 1150 ms after onset of your letter stimulus). > > > >the script in the inline would be something like this: > > > >Do > > > >Loop Until (Clock.Read - LetterStimulus.OnsetTime) < (1250 - > > > >Display.RefreshDurationStats.Mean) > > > >If LetterStimulus.RESP = "" And c.GetAttrib("Stim") = "X" Then > > > >LetterStimulus.ACC = 1 > > > > >that Do...Loop will loop continuously until there is less than a > > > >single screen refresh's worth of milliseconds remaining in the > > > >LetterStimulus's response window, at which point the script will > > > >kick out of the Do...Loop, check to see if there was no response, > > > >and if no response and if 'X' then assign an accuracy of '1' to the > > > >LetterStimulus object. > > > > >how's that? > > > > >ben > > > > >On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Jim > > > ><jjprisciand... at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >Hello forum, > > > > >I sent this question to e-prime support last week; unfortunately, they > > > >are experiencing high volume and have been taking a long time to get > > > >back to my requests. They are time sensitive, so I was hoping the > > > >forum might have some ideas. > > > > >I'm working with an e-prime experiment where participants are asked to > > > >press a button ("7") whenever they see a letter except for "X" (at > > > >which point they are asked to withold a response). I have a column in > > > >my task list "CorrectAnswerL" which states "7" for any letter (another > > > >column in the task list) other than X; CorrectAnswerL is blank for > > > >trials with "X"s. In the procedure associated with that list, the > > > >stimulus "LetterPresentation" has [CorrectAnswerL] listed in the > > > >"Correct" blank in the "Duration/Input" tab. When I run the task, > > > >nonresponses are not scored as correct for X trials (that is, > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 0). > > > > >I previously had the task running with an inline script following the > > > >stimulus and a blank pane "ISI" which stated: > > > > >If LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerR") OR > > > >LetterPresentation.RESP = c.GetAttrib ("CorrectAnswerL") Then > > > >LetterPresentation.ACC = 1 > > > >End If > > > > >At this time there were two correct responses which is why there is an > > > >additional "correctanswer" attribute. This is no longer the case, and > > > >I want to > > ... > > read more ?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Tue Feb 23 22:42:12 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:42:12 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b8451a5.5244f10a.6521.ffff93e8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: FYI, I set the response duration as 1150ms (100ms prior to the presentation of the subsequent stimulus) and nonresponses are still being incorrectly scored as ACC=0. ??? On Feb 23, 5:06?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > >I don't want to mess with pre-release because the > >scanner paradigm has already been used/validated by someone in my lab > >with 100ms prerelease on every object. > > That 100 ms PreRelease is almost certainly an artifact of E-Prime > defaults, and not a deliberate choice on the part of your > developer. ?When you switch an object from Event to Cumulative timing > mode then EP automatically imposes a default PreRelease of 100 ms, > and unless the developer edits that then that is what you get left > with whether it helps or not. > > As an exercise, you definitely should try setting PreRelease to 0 and > then test the timing/sychnonization for yourself. ?Even without > changes, you must personally shake down every program you use, I > don't want to repeat the horror story we had here a few years > back. ?If it takes you half an hour to sit through a timing > verification run, then so be it, although with some cleverness you > can speed things up using Clock.Scale. ?But in any case, you must, > MUST personally shake down every program you use. ?I cannot stress > that enough. ?And as long as you are shaking down that program, you > might as well try some changes and learn a few things. ?Above all, do > NOT get into a rush -- as my own graduate advisor told me many years > ago, scientific research is a deliberative process and not a business > to be done in a rush. ?Or have the times changed that much? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 22:43:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:43:10 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, >I think I understand Mich's response now. Essentially, there needs to >be a gap between the end of the response interval of a given stimulus >and the presentation of the next instance of the same stimulus? What >would be the least disruptive way to change my task so that non- >responses are correctly logged (e.g., should I change the response >duration to 1249ms)? Hmm, even if that worked I think there is a better way. > Also just to make sure I'm clear on this, Is this >problem related to the fact that my objects have 100ms of prerelease >or is this a totally separate issue? Quite likely related, the more I understand your program. >I read the timing chapter twice and the prerelease section more than >that; unfortunately I am still very confused. Your general guidelines >help. From your description, it really seems like one should not use >prerelease if they are logging responses. Or I'm just misunderstanding >you :) No, you got that right. I would start with all PreRelease set to 0, and then add PreRelease only as needed. And instead of doing this in my actual experiment program, I would start with a lot of little demo programs as exercises to first test my understanding. Cumulative mode should do everthing you need to make sure that your task program stays more or less in sync with external equipment (brain scan, etc.), even in the presence of large OnsetDelays (in fact I have sometimes deliberately taken advantage of that fact); PreRelease contributes nothing to synchronizing with external equipment, and comes into play only when you need to reduce individual OnsetDelays, and even then some cases require techniques that go beyond PreRelease (preloading/caching, etc.). So leave PreRelease at 0 until you know you need it, and know *why* and *where* you need it. >I tried setting all objects to cumulative >mode. Timing was relatively repeatable accross runs (give or take a >millisecond); however, when I responded to the stimuli instead of just >letting the task run without responses, the timing was not repeatable >(30-50ms off). That's just weird. Unless... unless you have End Action = (none) or Jump anywhere, then all bets are off. But then you should also get off by much more than 30-50 ms. Or unless you have some inline code messing with TargetOnsetTime, or skipping past some objects, but short of that, with Cumulative Timing everything should Just Work regardless of responses. So maybe it's time for you to take this to a local expert who can look at the program, or send it back to your collaborator and have their developer fix this. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Feb 23 22:50:49 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:50:49 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <983cfe88-fe90-4e50-8c21-6012063f7f9e@m37g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, >FYI, I set the response duration as 1150ms (100ms prior to the >presentation of the subsequent stimulus) and nonresponses are still >being incorrectly scored as ACC=0. ??? You need to stop working on the actual experiment program. Before you do anything else, make a simple demo program with a List and a Procedure with one TextDisplay, have it take some input and leave Correct empty, then run it and see that you get .ACC = 1 for nonresponses. If you cannot get that to work then nothing else matters. Once you do get that to work you can extend it along the lines of your experiment until you figure out what is going on. As a general strategy, I find it more productive to start from success than from failure -- easier to start with a simple and easily understood working model and find what breaks it than to start from a complex broken model and find what fixes it. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ixkackxi at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 18:37:47 2010 From: ixkackxi at gmail.com (Carlos) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:37:47 -0800 Subject: Response devices In-Reply-To: <4b7c2d2f.5944f10a.7174.7ae3SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: To all, Just to make things simple for everyone, here is what e-prime would be expecting regardless of what response pads you are using. Constant data stream when nothing is pressed = 00000000 = &H00 Button 1 = 00000001 = &H01 Button 2 = 00000010 = &H02 Button 3 = 00000100 = &H04 Button 4 = 00001000 = &H08 Button 5 = 00010000 = &H10 and so on up until 8 buttons. I want to thank David for his help on this! Without his input we might not have figured this out. We were thinking what E-Prime was expecting was much more complicated than this, and kept on straying farther and farther. Hope this helps everyone -Carlos Faraco On Feb 17, 12:53?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > At 2/16/2010 06:07 PM Tuesday, Carlos wrote: > > >David, > > >Anyways, my colleague (who is the one mainly in charge of trying to > >configure our response pads) and I have looked at this and tried to > >implement a few things. So far we haven't had any luck. We don't have > >an SRBox from E-Prime so we can't really route anything through there > >or even try to figure out in more detail how it works. You seemed to > >have provided that though in your e-mail so I don't think is an issue > >at this point. It just seems that E-Prime does not want to correctly > >interpret what we are sending to it. > > >I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind. > > >1) Should we be setting the SRBOX Object/Device in E-Prime to be > >emulating the keyboard? > > That is entirely up to you, it makes no difference to how E-Prime > gets the input from the SRBox. ?It may simplify the testing of your > input masks -- you can use a Keyboard mask (using the same values as > your SRBox will use) to test your program without the SRBox, then > when you add the SRBox you have everything ready. > > >2) What type of information should we be having the breadbox send out? > >Should this be in hex? We have verified that the breadbox is sending > >out the information we configure it so send, but E-Prime doesn't seem > >to happy with whatever type of output we send to it. > > I thought I covered that in my earlier post. > > >3) You said the E-Prime SRBOX sends out &H7F when it powers on. Is > >this something that E-Prime has to detect? > > Not as far as I know, I simply recorded an observation that I made > (hence I enclosed that in parentheses). > > >4) Does the SRBox send a steady stream of bytes to E-Prime at the > >speed of 800 bytes per second even if no button is pressed? > > Yes. > > >5) If no button is pressed, what will the SRbox send to E-Prime? > > It sends a steady stream of &H00 bytes. > > >In your reply you said: In your reply you mentioned:Each bit encodes > >the state of one button, so, e.g., button 1 sends &H01, button 2 &H02, > >button 3 &H04, etc.; and buttons 1 & 3 simultaneously send &H05, etc. > >You may then decode the byte with If...Then, or masking unwanted bits > >with a bitwise And > > >Would that be the answer to the last two questions? > > Yes, indeed. > > >6) If, for example, button 1 is pressed, does the SRBox send > >"00000001" to E-Prime immediately? Is there any debounce processing > >needed? By any chance do you know how they achieve the "0 millisecond > >debounce period" as declared in their website? > > It does send the "00000001" (or &H01, or 0x01, which I find easier to > read). ?I do not recall any debounce circuity in the SRBox. ?However, > since it sends a new datum only once every 1/800 s = 1.25 ms, the > buttons have plenty of time to debounce between each datum. > > Hope that helps, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 19:07:47 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:07:47 -0800 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <4b845c00.5244f10a.6521.ffff954fSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Using a paired down version of the task, with one block but with everything else in tact, I tried some things: 1) I tried turning prerelease off on all objects, this didn't solve the problem 2) As I noted previously, I tried shortening the response duration to 1150, also didn't solve the problem 3) Did both 1 and 2 simultaneously, and nonresponses were correctly scored ACC = 1. **So the problem is an interaction of prerelease and response duration However, shortening the response duration really defeats the purpose of why I removed the inline code. Specifically, I was concerned that having the inline code (and having the previous object with a prerelease of 100ms) meant that the inline would be executed 100ms before the end of the response period. So, 4) I turned all prereleases off, inserted my scoring inline code, nonresponses were correctly scored. So, now a question about inline code: how much time does it add to each trial of my task to run the inline code (and does this amount of time increase depending on the length of the inline code script)? My task currently has each trial as a) stimulus (250ms with 1250ms response window), b) blank screen (1000ms), c) inline scoring code. My questions: 1) Does adding the inline code increase the duration of the overall task (does the magnitude of this increase in duration depend on the length of inline code)? 2) Does adding inline code cause responses to be logged and scored prior to the termination of the 1250ms response window? (If so, how much) 3) To clarify your earlier point, David, I am assuming that removing all prereleases shouldn't change the overall duration of my task, just the magnitude of onset delays, right? By the way, this discussion has been, and continues to be, tremendously helpful in my learning about e-prime as a new user! Thanks, Jim On Feb 23, 5:50?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Jim, > > >FYI, I set the response duration as 1150ms (100ms prior to the > >presentation of the subsequent stimulus) and nonresponses are still > >being incorrectly scored as ACC=0. ??? > > You need to stop working on the actual experiment program. ?Before > you do anything else, make a simple demo program with a List and a > Procedure with one TextDisplay, have it take some input and leave > Correct empty, then run it and see that you get .ACC = 1 for > nonresponses. ?If you cannot get that to work then nothing else > matters. ?Once you do get that to work you can extend it along the > lines of your experiment until you figure out what is going on. > > As a general strategy, I find it more productive to start from > success than from failure -- easier to start with a simple and easily > understood working model and find what breaks it than to start from a > complex broken model and find what fixes it. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com Wed Feb 24 22:34:08 2010 From: sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:34:08 -0800 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects Message-ID: Hello all, I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, in that order. It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT from both objects. I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT instead of two for both objects. Is there any way for this to be done? Thank you, Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 04:07:32 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 23:07:32 -0500 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects In-Reply-To: <1032b21b-a58d-4ec8-8192-92846c570d3c@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Sarah, Please work through the Extended Input tutorial in Appendix C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and see if that helps. Also, think through the difference between End Action = Terminate vs. (none). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > Hello all, > > I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 > and Wait1, in that order. > > It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it > is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, > then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. > This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the > subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects > the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for > each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT > from both objects. > > I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for > ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT > instead of two for both objects. > > Is there any way for this to be done? > > Thank you, > Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 15:57:43 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:57:43 -0800 Subject: e-prime task runs for variable durations Message-ID: Forum, I'm developing a basic CPT task to use in conjunction with fMRI. The task displays a letter for 250ms, a blank screen for 1 second, then scores responses using inline code. Rinse and repeat. One thing that I've noticed with e-prime is that the duration of a task changes across trials, even when all objects are set to cumulative (and objects are set to run for a specified length of time as opposed to terminating with user input). For example, I ran a task this morning 4 times, 2 with 100ms prerelease and 2 without prerelease. The difference between the longest and shortest trials accross task versions was 5 seconds; the difference between the average duration for the 2 task versions was 2 seconds. This is problematic for me since most of the time I am using e-prime in conjunction with fMRI or physio data collection. I can't get a handle on how long I should set my scanner program for if the e-prime program has a variable duration. Is this variable duration to be expected or something problematic with my task? If it is to be expected, how do folks synch scanner/physio programs with e-prime? Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 19:27:30 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:27:30 -0800 Subject: Buttons Message-ID: Hi, Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that with buttons. The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will have to choose one of those. However, my research involved with numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to 4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to learn it soon. So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com Thu Feb 25 20:33:37 2010 From: sarah.levy.21 at gmail.com (Sarah) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 12:33:37 -0800 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects In-Reply-To: <4B85F784.5040305@msu.edu> Message-ID: Thanks David, It was a little more complicated than the appendix explanation. Instead of having the ImageDisplay1 = 500ms and the Wait1 = 1000ms, I changed the ImageDisplay to terminate but made it 1500ms, and kept the duration to 500ms, and then took out response collection for Wait1. I also had to adjust my inline to have the total trial time always equaling 1500ms despite the response time. But the appendix helped! Thank you, Sarah On Feb 24, 11:07?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Sarah, > > Please work through the Extended Input tutorial in Appendix C of the > User's Guide that came with E-Prime and see if that helps. > > Also, think through the difference between End Action = Terminate vs. > (none). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > Hello all, > > > I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 > > and Wait1, in that order. > > > It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it > > is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, > > then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. > > This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the > > subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects > > the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for > > each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT > > from both objects. > > > I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for > > ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT > > instead of two for both objects. > > > Is there any way for this to be done? > > > Thank you, > > Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 21:00:21 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:00:21 -0500 Subject: Collecting data continuously for 2 objects In-Reply-To: <118b9037-2ede-4679-a198-5b37473aed77@m37g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Sarah, Glad you got it to work. Not that you need this now, but here is another trick that I have used in a situation somewhat like yours. Suppose we have a StimSlide followed by a MaskText to erase the stimulus, where StimSlide lasts for 500 ms or until a response (whichever comes first), and we want the whole trial to last 1500 ms regardless of response time (i.e., MaskText should last the remainder of the 1500 ms after the termination of StimSlide). We still need a bit of inline code between StimSlide and MaskText, but instead of doing the calculation directly (which can get tricky to take account of onset delays, etc.), we set both objects to Cumulative timing mode, set the Duration of MaskText to a constant 1500 ms, and use the following single line of code: SetNextTargetOnsetTime StimSlide.TargetOnsetTime E-Prime then automatically takes care of the rest. Just think about it (and maybe look at SetNextTargetOnsetTime in the online E-Basic Help). Even though MaskText starts well into the 1500 ms, that doesn't matter, because E-Prime still takes MaskText.TargetOnsetTime to be the same as StimSlide.TargetOnsetTime, and as a result MaskText.TargetOffsetTime becomes StimSlide.TargetOnsetTime + 1500, which is all that we want. Whew! Now, I am still a bit puzzled about exactly what your Wait1 does, since unless you have ClearAfter = Yes on your ImageDisplay then the ImageDisplay would remain during the Wait1. Usually when we want to erase a display we follow it with a blank TextDisplay instead of using ClearAfter with a Wait object, but I suppose that is a matter of personal programming style. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Thanks David, > >It was a little more complicated than the appendix explanation. >Instead of having the ImageDisplay1 = 500ms and the Wait1 = 1000ms, I >changed the ImageDisplay to terminate but made it 1500ms, and kept the >duration to 500ms, and then took out response collection for Wait1. I >also had to adjust my inline to have the total trial time always >equaling 1500ms despite the response time. > >But the appendix helped! >Thank you, >Sarah > >On Feb 24, 11:07 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Sarah, > > > > Please work through the Extended Input tutorial in Appendix C of the > > User's Guide that came with E-Prime and see if that helps. > > > > Also, think through the difference between End Action = Terminate vs. > > (none). > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > I have a TrialProc with five objects, two of them being ImageDisplay1 > > > and Wait1, in that order. > > > > > It is a go/nogo task, where ImageDisplay1 is the "Go" target, but it > > > is only shown for 500ms regardless of the subject's response time, > > > then the Wait1 in there which lasts for 1000ms - ImageDisplay1 RT. > > > This keeps the ImageDisplay1 duration at a constant 500ms, but if the > > > subject takes longer than 500ms to respond, the Wait1 still collects > > > the response. When I analyze the data it is difficult to get an RT for > > > each trial because I have to do some math in order to find the one RT > > > from both objects. > > > > > I am wondering if there is a way to continuously collect the data for > > > ImageDisplay1 and Wait1, so that my data output will give one RT > > > instead of two for both objects. > > > > > Is there any way for this to be done? > > > > > Thank you, > > > Sarah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 22:01:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:01:54 -0500 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <65fb5de8-81a1-49f0-ad42-b1aea1af544c@e7g2000yqf.googlegrou ps.com> Message-ID: Gilis, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which you may look up in the online E-Basic Help. Also, if you look at the Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of how to use this. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that >with buttons. > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will >have to choose one of those. However, my research involved with >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to >learn it soon. > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 23:13:42 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:13:42 -0500 Subject: e-prime task runs for variable durations In-Reply-To: <2f804f9d-ed11-4ef5-8a7c-248911db8f42@c16g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, It's your program. I have used Cumulative timing mode on very complex tasks that span many minutes in an fMRI scanner, with exactly 0 ms error on the final .TargetOnsetTime, which is the operative measure here. And if you understand the simple arithmetic underlying Cumulative mode (much simpler than the PST documentation makes it out), then you will know that it *has* to be exact, anything else would violate the laws of arithmetic! So I say this again Jim -- Stop working on your actual experiment programs and start working on *lots* of *small* demo programs until you work out the fundamental concepts of Cumulative vs. Event, PreRelease, Terminate vs (none), and Duration vs. Time Limit inside & out, forward & backwards, sideways & up & down! And I do not mean a "paired [sic] down" version of your experiment program, that is not fair. I mean start with a completely blank slate. Add one List, one Procedure, and one TextDisplay. Set it to log *everything*. Run that with every combination of parameters that you can think of (preferably in a systematic way) and examine the changing relationships between *all* the logged timing measures in the resulting .edat files until you think you know how everything works. Then try to think up more tests that will prove you wrong, and run those tests. (Need I say that I am just asking you to apply the same scientific process to your research tools as you do to your research itself?) Then add one or two more TextDisplay objects to the Procedure and continue your battery of tests. Etc., etc. And after all that, still do *not* go back to your existing broken program. Instead, start with another blank slate and rebuild your experiment program from scratch, this time doing a test run after *each* and *every* change. No, I am *not* kidding. Do it this way and you will finally creep up on the factor that breaks your existing program, and only then will you be close to the understanding you need. For the final stage (and I have neglected to stress this earlier) you must also study the code automatically generated by E-Studio. That will reveal much of the inner workings. Only after you have done the exercises described above *combined with* studying and understanding the code generated by E-Studio will you be in a position to tame your programs as desired. Over thirty years in this business has taught me the hard way, again and again, that I will not find the solution to even the "simplest" problem until I do the hard work of tearing each system down to its roots and understanding it to the very core. Not what we wish, but there it is. The sooner you learn that lesson the sooner you will progress in this endeavor. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) >I'm developing a basic CPT task to use in conjunction with fMRI. The >task displays a letter for 250ms, a blank screen for 1 second, then >scores responses using inline code. Rinse and repeat. > >One thing that I've noticed with e-prime is that the duration of a >task changes across trials, even when all objects are set to >cumulative (and objects are set to run for a specified length of time >as opposed to terminating with user input). For example, I ran a task >this morning 4 times, 2 with 100ms prerelease and 2 without >prerelease. The difference between the longest and shortest trials >accross task versions was 5 seconds; the difference between the >average duration for the 2 task versions was 2 seconds. This is >problematic for me since most of the time I am using e-prime in >conjunction with fMRI or physio data collection. I can't get a handle >on how long I should set my scanner program for if the e-prime program >has a variable duration. > >Is this variable duration to be expected or something problematic with >my task? If it is to be expected, how do folks synch scanner/physio >programs with e-prime? > >Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Feb 25 23:14:27 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:14:27 -0500 Subject: scoring a nonresponse as a correct answer In-Reply-To: <823cecf3-8be5-4e5b-8753-60394adb017b@g10g2000yqh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Jim, >1) Does adding the inline code increase the duration of the overall >task (does the magnitude of this increase in duration depend on the >length of inline code)? As I have said recently in another thread, you might be surprised at just how much code modern machines can run in under a millisecond. I once wrote a complete & inefficient Maximum Liklihood Estimation staircase program in EP code that did dozens of logarithmic calculations and multiplications between each stimulus, and noticed no delays at all. Most time bottlenecks these days are not due to running code, but to loading files from the disk or interruptions from the operating system. So in principle, yes, the more code you add the more you will add delays, but in practice, unless you run actual timing delay loops or sleep commands, I highly doubt you will see any difference. And once again, you should devise your own tests to see if I know what I am talking about. More importantly, even in the worst case of delays added from inline code, Cumulative mode will *still* provide the proper .TargetOnsetTimes. It *must*, because it is just simple arithmetic, as I explain below. >2) Does adding inline code cause responses to be logged and scored >prior to the termination of the 1250ms response window? (If so, how >much) Note first that scoring, setting, and logging are all different things. Scoring happens either internally by the object, or externally when you add inline code such as If StimText.RESP = "1" Then StimText.ACC = 1 What I will call "setting" (lacking a better term on the spur of the moment) happens when you or E-Prime adds code such as c.SetAttrib "StimText.ACC", StimText.ACC This sets the value of an attribute which can then be logged. Finally, logging happens with the line c.Log This line gets added silently & automatically at the end of every Procedure (unless you disable that, which is by design hard to do). Go ahead, look at the full generated code and see if you can find the c.Log just before the End Sub of every Procedure. So you can have c.SetAttrib change the value of any attribute wherever and as many times as you like within a Procedure, but it will get logged using the latest value only at the end of the Procedure. So in answer to your question, if your scoring inline takes place before the response then the response may not get properly scored; all input masks will get logged at the end of the Procedure, whether or not a response has come by then and notwithstanding any nonsense that goes on in intervening inline code; and inline code cannot "log" (as opposed to score) responses prematurely unless you deliberately add the c.Log line yourself, in which case you are just asking for trouble (unless you are an E-Prime Master and really know what you are doing). >3) To clarify your earlier point, David, I am assuming that removing >all prereleases shouldn't change the overall duration of my task, just >the magnitude of onset delays, right? As long as you set everything to use Cumulative timing mode, yes, that is correct. It has to be, because of the laws of arithmetic and the simple arithmetic relationship between consecutive .TargetOnsetTimes (which PST fails to properly explain). Taking the simple case of Cumulative timing where objects never get terminated by a response, given two objects A and B where B follows A (whether within the same Procedure or on the following trial, and where B may in fact just be a repetition of A), then the following simple relation holds: B.TargetOnsetTime = A.TargetOnsetTime + A.Duration Note that PreRelease and actual OnsetTime (let alone OnsetDelay) play absolutely *no* role in this calculation. Thus, in this simple case, the timing synchronization of .TargetOnsetTime (which is all that we can really control) absolutely *cannot* drift. Now, PreRelease simply advances the .OffsetTime of objects, thus, A.TargetOffsetTime = A.TargetOnsetTime + A.Duration - A.PreRelease Note that neither A.TargetOffsetTime nor A.OffsetTime control when B will start, that is controlled only by B.TargetOnsetTime. A.TargetOffsetTime simply controls when E-Prime ceases the idle loop that runs during A, and allows the processor to do some other work (e.g., run inline code, or load image or sound files). B will not start until the Clock reaches B.TargetOnsetTime, regardless of how early A.TargetOffsetTime comes. Finally, if by some quirk E-Prime does not get to B until the Clock is already past B.TargetOnsetTime, B will just start immediately, and (in Cumulative mode) B.TargetOffsetTime (as well as, now, C.TargetOnsetTime) will still just be A.TargetOnsetTime + A.Duration. Follow? (This is in fact an advanced trick that I take advatage of in some programs.) Again, this is just elementary arithmetic, nothing magic. (And if you understand the underlying mechanics like I do, you will see how silly this whole PreRelease mechanism is, but that is another matter.) And once again, do NOT take my word, or even PST's word, for *any* of this. You really have to knuckle down, make a bunch of small demo programs for yourself, turn on logging of *everything*, start making changes and see for yourself how all these parameters really affect all the timing measures. How do you think *I* figured this all out? I certainly did not get it from reading PST's documentation (Chapter 3 notwithstanding), nor did I get it from reading the online posts of some random self-styled "Faultfinder" like me. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Fri Feb 26 13:35:26 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:35:26 -0800 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <4b86f38c.5344f10a.7093.3386SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: thanks, I tried to open this example : http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a readable file... Best Wishes Gilis On 26 ??????, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: > Gilis, > > Standard reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > really does like to take any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. ?So don't be shy > there. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please > extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take ... > > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help. ?Also, if you look at the > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of > how to use this. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that > >with buttons. > > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will > >have to choose one of those. However, my research ?involved with > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to > >learn it soon. > > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:18:36 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:18:36 -0500 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <6add181e-1825-4f07-b0a8-29b0caeafcb0@b30g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Gilis, I clicked on your link, downloaded the .zip file, extracted it, and opened the .es file with no trouble. Just to be sure, I will send you the .zip file privately, along with the extracted .es file. Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I tried to open this example : >http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 >however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the >first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and >after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, >only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a >txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me >whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a >readable file... >Best Wishes >Gilis > >On 26 ????????? ??, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: > > Gilis, > > > > Standard reminder: ? 1) I do not work for PST. ? 2) PST's trained staff > > really does like to take any and all > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. ? So don't be shy > > there. ? 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please > > extend the courtesy of posting their reply > back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take ... > > > > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the > > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the > > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which > > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help. ? Also, if you look at the > > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of > > how to use this. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ? (Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an > > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly > > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that > > >with buttons. > > > > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object > > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will > > >have to choose one of those. However, my research ? involved with > > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to > > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > > > > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design > > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit > > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to > > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet > > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and > > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to > > >learn it soon. > > > > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:20:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:20:54 -0500 Subject: [Private] Re: Buttons In-Reply-To: <6add181e-1825-4f07-b0a8-29b0caeafcb0@b30g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: [Private e-mail] Gilis, I have attached the .zip file from PST, plus the extracted .es file. -- dkm >thanks, >I tried to open this example : >http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 >however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the >first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and >after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, >only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a >txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me >whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a >readable file... >Best Wishes >Gilis > >On 26 ????????? ??, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: > > Gilis, > > > > Standard reminder: ? 1) I do not work for PST. ? 2) PST's trained staff > > really does like to take any and all > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. ? So don't be shy > > there. ? 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please > > extend the courtesy of posting their reply > back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take ... > > > > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the > > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the > > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which > > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help. ? Also, if you look at the > > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of > > how to use this. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ? (Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an > > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly > > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that > > >with buttons. > > > > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object > > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will > > >have to choose one of those. However, my research ? involved with > > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to > > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. > > > > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design > > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit > > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to > > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet > > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and > > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to > > >learn it soon. > > > > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- [WARNING] WARNING: DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY! Use only E-Studio to edit this file. Editing of this file from any other means is not supported and may corrupt the experiment design specification. Technical support will not be able to address any issue in regards to this file format. [Experiment] VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _VersionPersist=6 Root="SessionProc" Author="PST" Abstract="3/24/04 - Updated to use MouseResponseData and fixed two\r\n props in Stimulus that were set wrong from legacy versions\r\n\r\nThis example illustrates how to create response areas on the screen,\r\nthen collect and score mouse-click responses based on those \r\nareas. The example uses the HitTest method of the SlideState \r\nobject.\r\n\r\nResponse areas have been defined as SlideText objects on the \r\nSlide object \"Stimulus\". Each SlideText object is given a\r\nunique name via its Properties window. \r\n\r\nThe TrialList references the SlideText object by name under the \r\nCorrectAnswer attribute.\r\n\r\nThe DoHitTest script tells E-Prime to find the x- and y-\r\ncoordinates of the mouse click when a response is made. \r\nThe HitTest method determines the string name of the SlideText \r\nobject at the specified coordinates. If the \r\nmouse click occurs within a SlideText object, the name of\r\nthe object is returned. If the mouse click occurs in another area of\r\nthe display, a null value is returned.\r\n\r\nThe DoHitTest InLine then compares the name returned by the\r\nresponse to the name designated in the TrialList as the \r\nCorrectAnswer. If they match, the response is scored as correct. \r\nIf they do not, the response is incorrect. " Notes="Revised: 1/22/02" Creation=1080162287 [Device0] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=1 CollectionMode=1 EmulateDeviceName="" CapsLock=0 NumLock=0 Name="Keyboard" Class="Keyboard" [Device1] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=1 CollectionMode=1 EmulateDeviceName="" OpenMode=0 ShowCursor=0 Name="Mouse" Class="Mouse" [Device2] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=1 Width=640 Height=480 Bpp=16 Name="Display" Class="Display" [Device3] _VersionPersist=1 OpenDevice=0 Channels=2 Samples=22050 Bps=16 Name="Sound" Class="Sound" [DataFile] WarnBeforeOverwrite=1 WarnIfConvertFailed=1 RemoveERecoveryFile=0 ReceiveFeedbackDuringDataFileConversion=1 LogLevel(2).Name="Block" LogLevel(3).Name="Trial" LogLevel(4).Name="SubTrial" LogLevel(5).Name="LogLevel5" LogLevel(6).Name="LogLevel6" LogLevel(7).Name="LogLevel7" LogLevel(8).Name="LogLevel8" LogLevel(9).Name="LogLevel9" LogLevel(10).Name="LogLevel10" [StartupInfo] DisplaySummary=1 UseDefaults=0 [StartupInfo1] Name="Subject" Prompt="Please enter the Subject Number (0-32767):" DataType=0 Enabled=1 PromptEnabled=1 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 PrivateFlags=268435477 PrivateInfo=1 [StartupInfo2] Name="Session" Prompt="Please enter the Session Number (0-32767):" DataType=0 Enabled=1 PromptEnabled=1 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 PrivateFlags=268435477 PrivateInfo=1 [StartupInfo3] Name="Group" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Group (0-32767):" DataType=0 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 [StartupInfo4] Name="Name" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Name:" DataType=1 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="" MaxLength=255 [StartupInfo5] Name="Age" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Age (0-150):" DataType=0 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="0" Min=0 Max=150 [StartupInfo6] Name="Sex" Prompt="Please enter Subject's Sex:" DataType=2 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="male" Choice(1).Value="male" Choice(2).Value="female" [StartupInfo7] Name="Handedness" Prompt="Enter Subject's Handedness:" DataType=2 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="left" Choice(1).Value="left" Choice(2).Value="right" [StartupInfo8] Name="ResearcherID" Prompt="Please enter Researcher's ID:" DataType=0 Enabled=0 PromptEnabled=0 Default="1" Min=0 Max=32767 [Object0] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _ItemList="Instructions;ShowCursor;BlockList;Goodbye" _VersionPersist=1 FlowLines(0).Count=4 FlowLines(0).FlowItem(0).Name="Instructions" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(1).Name="ShowCursor" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(2).Name="BlockList" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(3).Name="Goodbye" LogData=1 Name="SessionProc" TypeName="Procedure" Tag="" Notes="" [Object1] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 Input(0)=!Data0 _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Text="Welcome to the experiment\n\nYou will see a fixation followed by an arrow and a '*' in 1 of 4 positions.\n\n\nAs quickly as you can, click the box containing the '*'.\n\nPress any key to continue" ForeColor="black" BackColor="white" BackStyle="opaque" BorderColor="black" BorderWidth="0" X="center" Y="center" Width="100%" Height="100%" XAlign="center" YAlign="center" AlignHorizontal="center" AlignVertical="center" FontName="Courier New" FontSize="18" FontBold="Yes" FontItalic="No" FontUnderline="No" FontStrikeout="No" WordWrap=1 ClearAfter="No" Duration="10000" JumpLabel="" TimingMode=0 PreRelease="0" OnsetSync=1 OffsetSync=0 Name="Instructions" TypeName="TextDisplay" Tag="" Notes="" [Data0] DeviceName="Keyboard" DeviceClass="Keyboard" AllowableInput="{ANY}" CorrectInput="" TimeLimit="" MaxCount="1" InputAction=1 SyncOwnerDuration=1 Enabled=1 FlushInputBuffer="Yes" TerminationInput="" UserTag="" ResponseMode="All" ProcessBackspace="Yes" [Object2] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("PracticeMode").Log=-1 _ItemList="BlockProc" _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Order=0 OrderBy=0 ResetEveryRun=0 HideLevelsWithZeroWeight=0 CycleDef=0 CycleValueSamples=0 CycleValueCondition="" ExitDef=0 ExitValueCycles=1 ExitValueSamples=1 ExitValueSeconds=0 ExitValueCondition="" LoadMethod=2 Filename="" UserAttributes=1 Attributes("Weight").DefaultValue="1" Attributes("Weight").Visible=1 Attributes("Weight").Width=75 Attributes("Weight").OrderIndex=0 Attributes("Procedure").DefaultValue="" Attributes("Procedure").Visible=1 Attributes("Procedure").Width=75 Attributes("Procedure").OrderIndex=1 Attributes("Nested").DefaultValue="" Attributes("Nested").Visible=1 Attributes("Nested").Width=75 Attributes("Nested").OrderIndex=2 Attributes(1).Name="PracticeMode" Attributes(1).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(1).VarType=8 Attributes(1).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(1).Visible=1 Attributes(1).Width=86 Levels=1 Levels(1).ValueString="1\tBlockProc\t\tNo\t" Name="BlockList" TypeName="List" Tag="" Notes="" [Object3] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Text="Thank you for participating.\n\n\nGoodbye!" ForeColor="black" BackColor="white" BackStyle="opaque" BorderColor="black" BorderWidth="0" X="center" Y="center" Width="100%" Height="100%" XAlign="center" YAlign="center" AlignHorizontal="center" AlignVertical="center" FontName="Courier New" FontSize="18" FontBold="Yes" FontItalic="No" FontUnderline="No" FontStrikeout="No" WordWrap=1 ClearAfter="yes" Duration="2000" JumpLabel="" TimingMode=0 PreRelease="0" OnsetSync=1 OffsetSync=0 Name="Goodbye" TypeName="TextDisplay" Tag="" Notes="" [Object4] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _ItemList="TrialList" _VersionPersist=1 FlowLines(0).Count=1 FlowLines(0).FlowItem(0).Name="TrialList" LogData=1 Name="BlockProc" TypeName="Procedure" Tag="" Notes="" [Object5] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Text="\n\n\n\n\n\n\n+\n\n\n\n\n\n" ForeColor="black" BackColor="white" BackStyle="opaque" BorderColor="black" BorderWidth="0" X="center" Y="center" Width="100%" Height="100%" XAlign="center" YAlign="center" AlignHorizontal="center" AlignVertical="center" FontName="Courier New" FontSize="18" FontBold="Yes" FontItalic="No" FontUnderline="No" FontStrikeout="No" WordWrap=1 ClearAfter="No" Duration="1000" JumpLabel="" TimingMode=0 PreRelease="0" OnsetSync=1 OffsetSync=0 Name="Fixation" TypeName="TextDisplay" Tag="" Notes="" [Object6] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("Up").Log=-1 Logging("Right").Log=-1 Logging("Down").Log=-1 Logging("Left").Log=-1 Logging("Stimulus").Log=-1 Logging("CorrectAnswer").Log=-1 _ItemList="TrialProc" _VersionPersist=1 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Order=0 OrderBy=0 ResetEveryRun=0 HideLevelsWithZeroWeight=0 CycleDef=0 CycleValueSamples=0 CycleValueCondition="" ExitDef=0 ExitValueCycles=1 ExitValueSamples=1 ExitValueSeconds=0 ExitValueCondition="" LoadMethod=2 Filename="" UserAttributes=6 Attributes("Weight").DefaultValue="1" Attributes("Weight").Visible=1 Attributes("Weight").Width=43 Attributes("Weight").OrderIndex=0 Attributes("Procedure").DefaultValue="TrialProc" Attributes("Procedure").Visible=1 Attributes("Procedure").Width=75 Attributes("Procedure").OrderIndex=1 Attributes("Nested").DefaultValue="" Attributes("Nested").Visible=1 Attributes("Nested").Width=75 Attributes("Nested").OrderIndex=2 Attributes(1).Name="Up" Attributes(1).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(1).VarType=8 Attributes(1).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(1).Visible=1 Attributes(1).Width=48 Attributes(2).Name="Right" Attributes(2).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(2).VarType=8 Attributes(2).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(2).Visible=1 Attributes(2).Width=50 Attributes(3).Name="Down" Attributes(3).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(3).VarType=8 Attributes(3).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(3).Visible=1 Attributes(3).Width=45 Attributes(4).Name="Left" Attributes(4).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(4).VarType=8 Attributes(4).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(4).Visible=1 Attributes(4).Width=47 Attributes(5).Name="Stimulus" Attributes(5).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(5).VarType=8 Attributes(5).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(5).Visible=1 Attributes(5).Width=75 Attributes(6).Name="CorrectAnswer" Attributes(6).DefaultValue="?" Attributes(6).VarType=8 Attributes(6).VarTypeInternal=8 Attributes(6).Visible=1 Attributes(6).Width=75 Levels=4 Levels(1).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t*\t\t\t\tUp\tUp\t" Levels(2).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t\t*\t\t\tRight\tRight\t" Levels(3).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t\t\t*\t\tDown\tDown\t" Levels(4).ValueString="1\tTrialProc\t\t\t\t\t*\tLeft\tLeft\t" Name="TrialList" TypeName="List" Tag="" Notes="" [Object7] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _ItemList="Fixation;Stimulus;DoHitTest;Feedback" _VersionPersist=1 FlowLines(0).Count=4 FlowLines(0).FlowItem(0).Name="Fixation" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(1).Name="Stimulus" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(2).Name="DoHitTest" FlowLines(0).FlowItem(3).Name="Feedback" LogData=1 Name="TrialProc" TypeName="Procedure" Tag="" Notes="" [Object8] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 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\"Stimulus\"\n\tDim theState as SlideState\n\tSet theState = Stimulus.States(\"Default\")\n\n\tDim strHit As String\n\tDim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData\n\n\n\t'Was there a response?\n\tIf Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then\n\n\t\t'Get the mouse response\n\t\tSet theMouseResponseData = CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))\n\n\t\t'Determine string name of SlideImage or SlideText object at \n\t\t'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit\n\t\tstrHit = theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, theMouseResponseData.CursorY)\n\n\t\t'Compare string name where mouse click occurred to CorrectAnswer\n\t\t'attribute on each trial, and score response\n\t\t'NOTE: This comparison is case sensitive\n\t\tIf strHit = c.GetAttrib(\"CorrectAnswer\") Then\n\t\t Stimulus.ACC = 1\n\t\tElse\n\t\t Stimulus.ACC = 0\t\n\t\tEnd If\n\n\tEnd If\n\n\n\n\n" Name="DoHitTest" TypeName="InLine" Tag="" Notes="" [Object10] _Version=131072 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 _VersionPersist=1 Code="'Make mouse cursor visible at run-time\nMouse.ShowCursor true\n\n" Name="ShowCursor" TypeName="InLine" Tag="" Notes="" [Object11] _Version=65536 _ExtentX=2646 _ExtentY=1323 _StockProps=0 VersionMajor=1 VersionMinor=1 VersionInternal=4 VersionBuild=1 Logging("OnsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("OnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("DurationError").Log=0 Logging("PreRelease").Log=0 Logging("Duration").Log=0 Logging("StartTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("FinishTime").Log=0 Logging("TimingMode").Log=0 Logging("CustomOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("CustomOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("ActionDelay").Log=0 Logging("ActionTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOffsetTime").Log=0 Logging("TargetOnsetTime").Log=0 Logging("OffsetDelay").Log=0 Logging("RTTime").Log=0 Logging("ACC").Log=0 Logging("RT").Log=0 Logging("RESP").Log=0 Logging("CRESP").Log=0 Logging("Tag").Log=0 _VersionPersist=1 States("Correct").X="center" States("Correct").Y="center" States("Correct").Width="100%" States("Correct").Height="100%" States("Correct").XAlign="center" States("Correct").YAlign="center" States("Correct").BackColor="white" States("Correct").BackStyle="opaque" States("Correct").BorderColor="black" States("Correct").BorderWidth="0" States("Correct").ClearAfter="No" States("Correct").Enabled="Yes" States("Correct").ChildCount=3 States("Correct").Objects(1).Type="Text" States("Correct").Objects(1).Text="Correct!" 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Name: ResponseAreasForMouseInput.zip Type: application/zip Size: 9201 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:39:40 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Private] Re: Buttons In-Reply-To: <4b87f521.5844f10a.55d0.179aSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Arrgh! My apologies to all! I forgot to change the "To" address for that to just go to Gilis, as intended. But I suppose he will get it now. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 2/26/2010 11:20 AM Friday, you wrote: >[Private e-mail] > >Gilis, > >I have attached the .zip file from PST, plus the extracted .es file. > >-- dkm > > >>thanks, >>I tried to open this example : >>http://www.pstnet.com/e-prime/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=5 >>however for some reason it can't be open on my computer (it's the >>first example I can't opent for some reason). It's a zipped file and >>after I extracted it to new folder I found no running file (instead, >>only the stimuli images and the full scripot of the experiment in a >>txt file-and from there it's quite hard to follow..) Can you tell me >>whether you managed to run it please? or else if you have it in a >>readable file... >>Best Wishes >>Gilis >> >>On 26 ????????? ??, 00:01, David McFarlane wrote: >> > Gilis, >> > >> > Standard reminder: ? 1) I do not work for PST. ? 2) PST's trained staff >> > really does like to take any and all >> questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they >> > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. ? So don't be shy >> > there. ? 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please >> > extend the courtesy of posting their reply >> back here for the sake of others. >> > >> > That said, here is my take ... >> > >> > If by "buttons" you mean mouse clicks on specified areas of the >> > screen (as opposed to buttons on a button box), then I think the >> > conventional way to do that in E-Prime is with Slide.HitTest(), which >> > you may look up in the online E-Basic Help. ? Also, if you look at the >> > Samples on the PST web site you may find an downloadable example of >> > how to use this. >> > >> > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over >> > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ? (Richard Feynman, >> > Nobel prize-winning physicist) >> > >> > >Just faced with a new challenge. I want participants to choose an >> > >answer among three or four options that will be presented shortly >> > >after the stimulus offset in each trial, I don't realy now how to that >> > >with buttons. >> > >> > >The simplest option is to just present another slide or text object >> > >right after the stimuli, with multiple choice and participants will >> > >have to choose one of those. However, my research ? involved with >> > >numerical cognition and asking participants to choose answer from 1 to >> > >4 or even from a to d is not the best option as I see it. >> > >> > >Using voice responses is another possibility for experimental design >> > >but I didn't realy get to this yet and choosing such design will limit >> > >the number of trials each participant will complete and require me to >> > >be stay with participants during the entire experiment. Also, I yet >> > >don't know how to collect two responses (vocal from participant and >> > >manual from the experimenter) within the same trial-but I hope to >> > >learn it soon. >> > >> > >So, your answers and advices would be wellcomed... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Feb 26 16:43:43 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:43:43 -0500 Subject: Buttons In-Reply-To: <4b87f497.5844f10a.596f.18c2SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Double arrgh! Now I have to send another message just to change the discussion topic back to "Buttons". I hate it when Google Groups does this! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.