From t1msky at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 1 12:36:40 2010 From: t1msky at yahoo.co.uk (Victor) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 04:36:40 -0800 Subject: display slide image from an array Message-ID: Hi, I have a feedback slide that I want to display a random image from an array but I get the error 'filename on imagedisplay has not been set' and I do not understand why. I have a list with cards card(1) = "aceclubs" and so on.. Before the feedback slide I have dim x as integer x = random(1,52) if slide1.cresp = "m" 'when correct response is on the right imageright = card(x) c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" end if I have used this sort of code before and it has always worked so I am confused as to why it doesnt work now. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Victor -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 1 12:58:12 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:58:12 -0000 Subject: display slide image from an array In-Reply-To: <1f0111d3-1f13-4892-8a1a-a49e23444aeb@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Your code is full of errors, it seems! I bet you anything this code didn't work before, actually... " if slide1.cresp = "m" 'when correct response is on the right imageright = card(x) c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" end if" 1. I assume your slide1 has imagedisplay with filename [imageR], yes? What happens with incorrect responses 2. Why is there a quotation mark after imageright? 3. Why do you refer to .cresp? Could be you mean this, but I often get students who get confused between the difference between .resp, .cresp and allowable... Anyway, Make a blank image, (with MSPAINT!), save it as blank.bmp, then do: if slide1.cresp = "m" 'if cresp is m c.setattrib "imageR", card(random(1,52)) 'no need for imageright else c.SetAttrib "imageR", "blank.bmp" end if" Always specify an image, even if it is blank - that way, you can ensure the timing is the same :) Also, be prepared for the inevitable unexpected response (i.e. use else and such). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Sent: 01 March 2010 12:37 To: E-Prime Subject: display slide image from an array Hi, I have a feedback slide that I want to display a random image from an array but I get the error 'filename on imagedisplay has not been set' and I do not understand why. I have a list with cards card(1) = "aceclubs" and so on.. Before the feedback slide I have dim x as integer x = random(1,52) if slide1.cresp = "m" 'when correct response is on the right imageright = card(x) c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" end if I have used this sort of code before and it has always worked so I am confused as to why it doesnt work now. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Victor -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From t1msky at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 1 14:00:53 2010 From: t1msky at yahoo.co.uk (Victor) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 06:00:53 -0800 Subject: display slide image from an array In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02D6B22D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks for the speedy response Michiel :) I included references to CRESP as there are only two possible responses and so I had an else statement already in place to turn over random left card if correct was on left, with the opposing card that was not correct set to another image. My code actually worked I had just referenced the wrong slide (slide1 not 2-doh!) which is why it was not working. However, your suggestions for more elegant brief coding has been incorporeated into the experiment scripts. Thanks, Victor On Mar 1, 12:58 pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Your code is full of errors, it seems! I bet you anything this code didn't work before, actually... > > " if slide1.cresp = "m"                          'when correct response > is on the right > imageright = card(x) > c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" > end if" > > 1. I assume your slide1 has imagedisplay with filename [imageR], yes? What happens with incorrect responses > 2. Why is there a quotation mark after imageright? > 3. Why do you refer to .cresp? Could be you mean this, but I often get students who get confused between the difference between .resp, .cresp and allowable... > > Anyway, Make a blank image, (with MSPAINT!), save it as blank.bmp, then do: > > if slide1.cresp = "m"       'if cresp is m >         c.setattrib "imageR", card(random(1,52)) 'no need for imageright > else >         c.SetAttrib "imageR", "blank.bmp" > end if" > > Always specify an image, even if it is blank - that way, you can ensure the timing is the same :) Also, be prepared for the inevitable unexpected response (i.e. use else and such). > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor > Sent: 01 March 2010 12:37 > To: E-Prime > Subject: display slide image from an array > > Hi, > > I have a feedback slide that I want to display a random image from an > array but I get the error 'filename on imagedisplay has not been set' > and I do not understand why. > > I have a list with cards > > card(1) = "aceclubs" and so on.. > > Before the feedback slide I have > > dim x as integer > x = random(1,52) > > if slide1.cresp = "m"                          'when correct response > is on the right > imageright = card(x) > c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" > end if > > I have used this sort of code before and it has always worked so I am > confused as to why it doesnt work now. Any help would be appreciated, > thanks, > > Victor > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 1 16:46:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 08:46:54 -0800 Subject: display slide image from an array In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mar 1, 9:00 am, Victor wrote: > My code actually worked I had just referenced the wrong slide (slide1 not 2-doh!) Another case example of why I insist that users give a meaningful name to each and every object as soon as they create it, rather than accepting the names automatically generated by E-Studio! Oh, and don't feel stuck with your initial names, feel free to keep changing the names of your objects as you get a clearer idea of each object's nature in your program during development -- I often go through three rounds or so of renaming objects, attributes, and variables just to make them as apt as possible. Cheers, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 17:06:04 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:06:04 -0800 Subject: determing the size of the Image Message-ID: Hi all, Is there any method to set the size of an image to certain dimensions (different or similar to the real size of the image)-say that I have image of rectangle with one side of it subtending to 5 cm and the other rib to 10 cm-and I want to be sure that E-prime would present it in this exact size (ration 1:1) or that it will stretch one rib to 7 cm and shrink the other to 8 cm..how can I do that using E-prime? Thanks Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 1 18:02:50 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:02:50 -0500 Subject: determing the size of the Image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gilis, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... Seems to me this came up just week, and I offer the same answer: Take a look at the Stretch property. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Is there any method to set the size of an image to certain dimensions >(different or similar to the real size of the image)-say that I have >image of rectangle with one side of it subtending to 5 cm and the >other rib to 10 cm-and I want to be sure that E-prime would present it >in this exact size (ration 1:1) or that it will stretch one rib to 7 >cm and shrink the other to 8 cm..how can I do that using E-prime? >Thanks >Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From lunakick at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 12:55:07 2010 From: lunakick at yahoo.com (Luna) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 04:55:07 -0800 Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? Message-ID: Hello e-primers, I have copied a bit of the script for the gender array selection box from the main script to use for a list of provoking comments to sent to an 'opponent'. Although, one can use the mouse to select the gender, in my array of choices, the mouse is not usable. As a result, one has to scroll through the list of comments using the up and down keys on the keyboard, which is really not sophisticated. I want my program to look sophisticated, of course. Can anyone help? I've tried copying the code that initiates the mouse, but that did not work. Thanks very much. -Luna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 2 14:17:16 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:17:16 -0000 Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? In-Reply-To: <7e18ae9f-c9ab-42ab-b609-6461c3a4a950@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, It's pretty simple, I just found out myself! Just go to edit>experiment>devices>mouse edit properties, set show cursor to true. Once you don't want to show the cursor any more, just have an inline saying Mouse.ShowCursor false Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Luna Sent: 02 March 2010 12:55 To: E-Prime Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? Hello e-primers, I have copied a bit of the script for the gender array selection box from the main script to use for a list of provoking comments to sent to an 'opponent'. Although, one can use the mouse to select the gender, in my array of choices, the mouse is not usable. As a result, one has to scroll through the list of comments using the up and down keys on the keyboard, which is really not sophisticated. I want my program to look sophisticated, of course. Can anyone help? I've tried copying the code that initiates the mouse, but that did not work. Thanks very much. -Luna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nickfraenkel at googlemail.com Tue Mar 2 18:11:56 2010 From: nickfraenkel at googlemail.com (Nick F) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:11:56 -0800 Subject: SoundIn problems: "Unable to find sound capture device" In-Reply-To: <4b6b19e4.5244f10a.49e8.26fbSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Sorry I'm slow replying. It turns out the solution is quite simple: in order to enable sound recording (and use the SoundIn object) in E- Prime, you need to enable the SoundCapture device in the experiment (Experiment -> Devices -> Add -> SoundCapture). I'd managed to miss this when I looked through the New Features guide - thought I'd post this here in case anyone else has the same problem. While I'm here, I might as well clarify another quirk of the SoundIn object. It turns out that regardless of when you stop the SoundIn object, the WAV file it writes will always be the full length of the SoundIn object's buffer (the remaining duration will be silent). I asked PST Web Support about this and they say that at the moment there is no way round this. Not necessarily a huge problem, but it does mean that response data can end up taking up vastly more disk space than is really necessary. I got round this problem by converting everything to mp3 (since, as I understand it, silences - however long - should make a negligible difference to file size when encoded to mp3). Since the SoundIn object also currently always writes in stereo (even from a mono input), I also converted back to mono when encoding to mp3, which should halve file sizes as well. For anyone who wants to do this, I recommend LamedropXPD - a very small, easy-to-use batch mp3 encoder, which has a 'Mono encode' checkbox. This allowed me to reduce 128MB of sound recordings to 4MB, with no audible loss of quality (I encoded at 192 kbps). Of course, anyone trying this would be wise to make sure that all the resulting mp3s are useable before they delete the original WAVs... Anyway, just thought I'd post all that in case anyone else is having any of the same problems I had - hope it's of some use to someone. Thanks again, Nick On Feb 4, 7:02 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Nick, > > Please submit this to PST Web Support athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, they strive > to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  Then please do us a favor > and post back here with the result. > > Also, you might try upgrading to EP2.0.8.73 (Pro), any registered > user can download that for free from the PST web site.  Glad to see > that you are still on XP, many of us have had trouble running EP2 > under Vista, and I have not gotten any confirmed reports yet on > whether 2.0.8.73 or Win7 fix that. > > Thanks, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I'm trying to set up an experiment using the SoundIn object to record > >participants' responses. The problem I'm having is that every time I > >try to run or generate, I receive the following error message: > > >"A Fatal Error occurred while generating the initialization code for > >the E-Object named 'SoundIn1' > >Error Message: Unable to find sound capture device. Ensure that a > >sound capture device is available." > > >I've tried with both an external USB audio-recording soundcard and the > >computer's internal soundcard, and I get the same error with both. > >There doesn't seem to be any problem with the soundcards: E-Prime's > >SoundOut object will play without complaint using either card, and I'm > >able to record audio input in software other than E-Prime. > > >If anyone has any experience of getting E-Prime to work with audio > >input, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions as to what might work. > > >Here is my set-up: > > >E-Prime 2.0.8.22 Professional / Windows XP > >Edirol UA-25 USB soundcard > > >Many Thanks, > > >Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com Tue Mar 2 18:52:57 2010 From: alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com (Alex) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:52:57 -0800 Subject: using attributes to set the Weight? Message-ID: Hello, I have a Trial List with 4 levels, corresponding to 4 different conditions. I want to present the first condition (i.e., the first level in the list) a varying number of times during a given cycle. So essentially, rather than having the Weight for the first level set to a fixed number, I would like to use an attribute in the Weight column that refers to another variable, e.g., [WeightNumber]. However, E- Prime won't let me use attributes in this column (I am using E-Prime 1.1, I don't know if this is possible in version 2). I have tried inserting an inline code just before the TrialList in order to set the Weight: TrialList.setWeight "1", c.getAttrib("WeightNumber") This doesn't work at all; the Weight appears to remain the default number 1. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com Tue Mar 2 19:15:08 2010 From: alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com (Alex) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:15:08 -0800 Subject: using attributes to set level Weight? Message-ID: Hello, I have a Trial List with 4 levels, corresponding to 4 different conditions. I want to present the first condition (i.e., the first level in the list) a varying number of times during a given cycle. So essentially, rather than having the Weight for the first level set to a fixed number, I would like to use an attribute in the Weight column that refers to another variable, e.g., [WeightNumber]. However, E- Prime won't let me use attributes in this column (I am using E-Prime 1.1, I don't know if this is possible in version 2). I have tried inserting an inline code just before the TrialList in order to set the Weight: TrialList.setWeight 1, c.getAttrib("WeightNumber") TrialList.reset This doesn't work at all; the Weight appears to remain the default number 1. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 2 19:51:27 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:51:27 -0500 Subject: using attributes to set level Weight? In-Reply-To: <8ceec728-c0e0-462f-91c3-d5077ce07fc9@t31g2000prh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Alex, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... First, in this respect EP2 works the same as EP1.1. Just the same, I do not understand why anyone persists in running EP1.1 when they can easily download & install EP1.2, which may fix some problems in EP1.1 as well as add more capability. Second, if you look more carefully, you will almost certainly discover that EP *did* change the weight of your List level. However, it just did not change the total number of levels run, i.e., the .ResetCondition or .TerminateCondition. If you look at the full generated code, you will see a pair of lines in InitObjects() such as Set TrialList.TerminateCondition = Cycles(1) Set TrialList.ResetCondition = Samples(2) You need to add some lines like this in your inline code. For instance, when in my own example I changed the weight of level 1 from 1 to 2, that changed the total levels to run to 3, so I used the following inline code: TrialList.SetWeight 1, c.GetAttrib( "WeightNumber" ) Set TrialList.ResetCondition = Samples(3) TrialList.Reset Of course, getting the correct number of levels to run can be tricky, but you can take it from there. (Note also that EP does not provide a List.GetWeight method to help you, as documented at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1244-5-1.aspx .) -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >I have a Trial List with 4 levels, corresponding to 4 different >conditions. I want to present the first condition (i.e., the first >level in the list) a varying number of times during a given cycle. So >essentially, rather than having the Weight for the first level set to >a fixed number, I would like to use an attribute in the Weight column >that refers to another variable, e.g., [WeightNumber]. However, E- >Prime won't let me use attributes in this column (I am using E-Prime >1.1, I don't know if this is possible in version 2). >I have tried inserting an inline code just before the TrialList in >order to set the Weight: > TrialList.setWeight 1, c.getAttrib("WeightNumber") > TrialList.reset >This doesn't work at all; the Weight appears to remain the default >number 1. >Does anyone have any ideas? >Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From maryesmith at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 20:09:30 2010 From: maryesmith at gmail.com (mary) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:09:30 -0800 Subject: Way to put images in separate folder than eprime file? Message-ID: Just tried searching and couldn't find anything on this. It's just so messy to have to keep all the image files in the same folder as the eprime e-studio files. I tried putting the Filename as a directory followed by the attribute name but that ran into problems with what I assume is regular expressions because when I put \ in front of them it ran. For example, I put: EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName] at first as my Filename, but when I tried to run, the script came out saying the Filename was: B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles[AttributeName") So I changed my Filename to be: EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\\[AttributeName\]" And it started to run successfully but then failed, and when I looked it was now displaying my Filename as: B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName]\"" Is there any way to do this?? What's going on here.... Thanks for the help, Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From v.lim at auckland.ac.nz Tue Mar 2 20:24:26 2010 From: v.lim at auckland.ac.nz (Vanessa Lim) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:24:26 -0800 Subject: onsetsignalenabled for eeg Message-ID: Hi, Sorry I have posted this on the eprime forum but no replies and David suggested this group, I have also sent a message to eprime directly but that was over a week ago. Many thanks! ******** For over 10 years our lab has been using writeport address, val (values from 0 to 15). However, recently I was testing our equipment and found in the PST knowledge base about the On and OffSetSignalEnabled code which looks better than the writeport because you aren't waiting for the screen refresh. I am doing a simple visual (and would like to test auditory later) paradigm for testing. 2 pictures (from a previous eprime example), with same ISI but different pre-releases. I have 4 conditions in this block - red car (StimTrig1 = 1); blue car (StimTrig1 = 2); ISITrig150: for red car = 6; for blue car = 10; (I found that having the same value for ISITrig150 6 for example meant that the Stimulus Trigger for the next stimulus wouldn't come up) Port is defined at the beginning of the experiment CONST Port = &H378 I defined StimTrig1 and ISITrig150 in the TrialList attributes, the trial procedure is inline code below and then ISI2 (text display) and Stimulus2 (ImageDisplay, vertical blank on) DIM trigOnCodeISI as Integer DIM trigOnCodeStim as Integer DIM trigOffCode as Integer trigOnCodeISI = CInt (c.GetAttrib ("ISITrig150")) trigOnCodeStim = CInt (c.GetAttrib ("StimTrig1")) trigOffCode = 0 ISI2.OnsetSignalEnabled = True ISI2.OnsetSignalPort = Port ISI2.OnsetSignalData = trigOnCodeISI ISI2.OffsetSignalData = True ISI2.OffsetSignalPort = Port ISI2.OffsetSignalData = trigOffCode Stimulus2.OnsetSignalEnabled = True Stimulus2.OnsetSignalPort = Port Stimulus2.OnsetSignalData = trigOnCodeStim Stimulus2.OffsetSignalData = True Stimulus2.OffsetSignalPort = Port Stimulus2.OffsetSignalData = trigOffCode This code is really unreliable, sometimes I get 1's and 2's and at the beginning of the ISI even though I had commented out the Stimulus Trig code and even deleted it from the inline. I will sometimes get only the first trigger as 10 and then it drops to 8 for the rest (if I use sequential). I have tried putting only the code for the ISI before the ISI and code for the stimulus in between the ISI2 and Stimulus2 objects and this does not help. I am unsure why my code is unreliable, the stimuli are on for 400 ms, ISI is 500 ms. Any suggestions please? Am I using this code correctly? Many thanks, Vanessa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 2 20:22:04 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:22:04 -0500 Subject: Way to put images in separate folder than eprime file? In-Reply-To: <830f49ea-b12b-4f19-8561-8fc953b30c98@z10g2000prh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Mary, Thanks for trying the search first. I suspect you just did not know what exact search terms to use. You are struggling with the intricacies of the "file path separator" in E-Prime, so search again using terms such as "file path", "path name", or "path separator", and search both the E-Prime Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime ) and the PST Forum (http://support.pstnet.com/forum ), you will come upon past discussions and full explanations (note also that the PST KB article on this does not quite get it right). Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/2/2010 03:09 PM Tuesday, you wrote: >Just tried searching and couldn't find anything on this. It's just so >messy to have to keep all the image files in the same folder as the >eprime e-studio files. I tried putting the Filename as a directory >followed by the attribute name but that ran into problems with what I >assume is regular expressions because when I put \ in front of them it >ran. For example, I put: > >EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName] > >at first as my Filename, but when I tried to run, the script came out >saying the Filename was: > >B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles[AttributeName") > >So I changed my Filename to be: > >EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\\[AttributeName\]" > >And it started to run successfully but then failed, and when I looked >it was now displaying my Filename as: > >B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName]\"" > > >Is there any way to do this?? What's going on here.... >Thanks for the help, >Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From saultsj at missouri.edu Wed Mar 3 05:37:38 2010 From: saultsj at missouri.edu (J Scott Saults) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 23:37:38 -0600 Subject: How can I refer to the currently running object in an inline? In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02D6B66E@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sorry, my question got cut off (thought it's in the topic) I can set a variable to refer to a running list: Dim theList as List Set theList = CList(Rte.GetObject(c.GetAttrib("Running"))) I also can assign a variable to refer to a list if I know its name (StimDisplay): Dim theResponseObject As RteRunnableInputObject How can I know the currently running object so that an inline, running during it's prerelease, can reference and use it's attributes (duration, keyboardMask, etc). I want to be able to copy and move an inline to follow different objects without changing and 'hard coding' the name of the object in the script each time. (Sorry for the repeated posting) Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From saultsj at missouri.edu Wed Mar 3 05:06:17 2010 From: saultsj at missouri.edu (J Scott Saults) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 23:06:17 -0600 Subject: How can I refer to the currently running object in an inline? In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02D6B66E@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Surely there's a way, but I haven't figured this out. I can set a variable to refer to a running list: Dim theList as List Set theList = CList(Rte.GetObject(c.GetAttrib("Running"))) I also can assign a variable to refer to a list if I know its name (StimDisplay): Dim theResponseObject As RteRunnableInputObject Set theResponseObject = CRteRunnableInputObject(Rte.GetObject("StimDisplay")) How can I (or can I) refer to whatever object (text, image, or slide dispaly) is running during the prerelease time that includes the inline? I want to be able to move my inline behind any presentation object with a prerelease so it will run, using attributes of the running object, without me having to 'hard code' the name of the object each time I move or copy the inline. Thanks in advance for any advice or information. I'm still don't understand much about Ebasic object data types -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 3 14:57:33 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:57:33 -0500 Subject: How can Scott refer to the currently running object in an inline? Message-ID: J Scott Saults wrote: > I can set a variable to refer to a running list: > Dim theList as List > Set theList = CList(Rte.GetObject(c.GetAttrib("Running"))) > I also can assign a variable to refer to a list if I know its name > (StimDisplay): > Dim theResponseObject As > RteRunnableInputObject > > How can I know the currently running object so that an inline, running > during it's prerelease, can reference and use it's attributes (duration, > keyboardMask, etc). I want to be able to copy and move an inline to > follow different objects without changing and 'hard coding' the name of > the object in the script each time. > > Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 3 14:53:17 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:53:17 -0500 Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? In-Reply-To: <257D9D8B-C523-45C2-B8AD-B34EAF20B65E@missouri.edu> Message-ID: PLEASE folks, do *NOT* try to start a new thread by simply doing an e-mail "reply" to an existing thread and then changing the subject line!! This just messes up the thread structure of the existing thread on Google Groups, as you can see for yourself at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/75838ffbbf64a05b . Instead, please start a brand new, blank e-mail message, address it to e-prime at googlegroups.com, and go from there. I am restoring this thread to Luna's original title of "How do I turn the mouse on?", and I will try to repost Scott's question under a new thread. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On 3 Mar 2010 J Scott Saults wrote: > Surely there's a way, but I haven't figured this out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com Wed Mar 3 17:58:49 2010 From: alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com (Alex) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:58:49 -0800 Subject: Access samples & cycles in inline code Message-ID: Hi there, There didn't seem to be any option to post a reply to that particular discussion board, so I'm re-posting the original question along with the solution: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Eliezer Kanal >Date: May 5 2008, 6:06 pm >Subject: Access samples & cycles in inline code >To: E-Prime > > >Hello folks - > >I would like to display a message to my subjects telling them that I >have completed "X of Y blocks", where X is the current sample/cycle/ >combination of both that we're up to, and Y is the total number of >sample/cycle/combinations of both that they'll complete. Is there some >way to find that (I'm imagining something like >List1.GetAttrib("CurrentCycle") or something). Thanks! > >Eliezer Kanal Solution: to access the current cycle: c.getAttrib("myList.cycle") to access the current sample: c.getAttrib("myList.sample") -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:48:01 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:48:01 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:28:35 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" Subject: [DMDX] article on LCD monitors Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Here's a good article on LCD monitors and their characteristics and the differences between the various ways you can measure their speeds. It's from a gaming perspective but that doesn't matter, what's good for gaming is good for DMDX. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-parameters.html /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ "He was so narrow minded he could see through a keyhole with both eyes ..." At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:50:00 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:50:00 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 14:10:31 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" Subject: [DMDX] TFT (or LCD) displays caveat emptor Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu As I was testing a LCD display (alternatively called an TFT or Flat Panel display) here I came across another previously unconsidered dimension of them that is a very serious consideration in their use as tachistoscopic display devices. And that is that the LCDs all have a digital signal processor (DSP) in them sitting between the computer's output and the pixels of the display and the speed of that processor can interfere with tachistoscopic displays. For instance when I first started testing this LCD the script I chose was using a 1024x768 display mode whereas the native resolution of this panel is 1600x1200. So the DSP has to take the 1024x768 signal and stretch it onto the 1600x1200 array of pixels that actually constitutes the display. It turns out that this device can't keep up with even a moderately fast tachistoscopic display and was producing tearing at even pedestrian 4 tick displays. I was toggling the background color between black and white and despite DMDX detecting no display errors I could plainly see tearing on the display. Once I realized what was up and switched DMDX to using the native resolution of the panel the tearing went away. So one must be very careful to use the native resolution of an LCD when using DMDX. A further consideration that hasn't been tested yet but is likely to be the case is that my monitor is using a DVI cable and not the old 15 pin analog VGA cable that most displays are using. The DVI cable is used here because high resolution displays (ie 1600x1200 and beyond) start to jitter and have all sorts of nasty problems. Because the same DSP mentioned above has to take the analog video signal and process it it stands a very good chance of running into the same problems mentioned above. So even if someone was using the native resolution of the panel the use of an analog signal cable could very well introduce the same sorts of tearing problems. Fortunately this is relatively easy to detect without additional test equipment beyond the human eye. Basically toggle the background color at a rate DMDX can handle without display errors and you should see an even flickering display. If you see periodic horizontal discontinuities then your LCD has a problem. f30 d3 0 "display tearing test" ; 3 %4 / ; 0 "end" l; /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ Any given program, once running, is obsolete. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:51:04 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:51:04 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:08:43 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "j.c.f." X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [DMDX] LCD flat panel displays and experiments Subject: [DMDX] LCD flat panel displays and experiments Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu --------------------------------------------------------------- I've noticed several machines in the last couple of weeks running DMDX with flat panel displays in the department, no great surprise as it's getting pretty challenging to buy a machine with a CRT. Just buying stand alone CRTs is challenging. But people need to be aware that using an LCD flat panel is not the same thing as using a CRT is as far as experimental displays are concerned, regardless of whether you're using DMDX or some other program. If you're not really interested in accurate display timing you can hit control D now and I apologize for the interruption to your email reading experience. However those of you that are interested in tachistoscopic displays, masked priming and anything else measuring RTs down to tens of milliseconds and less need to be aware that an LCD flat panel's display is going to be lagged by some arbitrary and variable amount of time unless the video mode that is being used is exactly the native resolution of the display. Worse, it can skip whole retraces of displayed data. This applies to laptops as well as desktops, however it's faintly possible given a laptop's integration the problem may not be so acute. Wouldn't surprise me if it was just as acute, put it that way. So a 17" flat panel really needs to use 1280x1024, a 20" one 1600x1200 and so on. It gets worse, recently I've seen two sets of displays that both accept 60, 70 and 75 Hz displays. One set of them didn't even display things properly at 70 Hz (which is fine, you'd hardly miss it) but one set only worked properly without lag and dropped frames at 60 Hz and the other set only at 75 Hz. I'm updating the TimeDX documentation to make the steps clearer but it's basically a matter of getting the Refresh Rate's display to be smooth. A sure but counter intuitive sign that you haven't got the right settings is TimeDX being able to correctly determine the retrace interval (as that test was designed to do) but having the display flicker. Here the hardware that TimeDX is looking at is fine and it's able to be timed correctly but the monitor on the end of all that that TimeDX doesn't have access to is doing it's own rendering of what it's being sent and taking it's own sweet time to do it and dropping frames as it needs to when it's too slow. So they can be made to work as scientific instruments, they just take more work and only run at one display mode and refresh rate. To date anyway, who knows what tomorrow may bring ;) /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ Standard parts are not. - Murphy's Technology Laws www.murphys-laws.com At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:48:47 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:48:47 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" Subject: [DMDX] LCD monitors Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu For those of you concerned about LCD monitors and their effect on tachistoscopic displays this is an interesting article: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/pcworld/20050722/tc_pcworld/121906 /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ What makes the universe so hard to comprehend is that there's nothing to compare it with. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:45:33 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:45:33 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:59:30 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [DMDX] article on LCDs Subject: [DMDX] article on LCDs Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- AnandTech has another extensive LCD article and while portions of it dwell on image quality other portions go into some detail on lag and response time of panels (and they test 8 or so of them) so anyone thinking of using LCD displays would do well to read the article: http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3584&p=1 /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ Trying to be happy is like trying to build a machine for which the only specification is that it should run noiselessly. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 14:40:24 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 06:40:24 -0800 Subject: CRT vs. LCD Message-ID: I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color values might differ from what you programmed. However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for LCDs you do. So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful discussion. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:47:04 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:47:04 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "j.c.f." X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [DMDX] LCD display lag Subject: [DMDX] LCD display lag Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Was reading AnandTech's Holiday 2008 Display Guide and ran across a worrying reference to lag in some panel types: http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3480 The long and the short of it is that it appears that more expensive LCD panel technology appears to come with built in lag. My guess is that this is probably because the panel massages the display data even when it's at the panel's native resolution as these are panels that designed for desktop publishers and small color deviations are noticed by those people. I emailed the author to make sure he was using the native resolutions in his testing and he was so at this stage I would be avoiding the nicer PVA displays and instead sticking with the cheaper TN displays. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Mar 4 16:27:56 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:27:56 -0000 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: One thing though: "you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly." Psychologists, like me, like to bring the brain into the picture (if not, the mind), but (correct me if I'm wrong - I tend to forget my high school knowledge!) the eyes (or at least the cones in the retina) can't 'see' the difference either. The important thing for many an experiment, therefore, is not whether the stuff stays on the screen for X ms, but whether it stays on the retina for as long - show a word for 20 ms on whatever monitor, followed by a blank screen, and you can easily read it. Show the same word, but now with a nice mask after it - not so much. Anyway, I use CRT screens, as long as I can still get them (don't know if that will be too long), usually at 100 Hz. I'm doing a lot of experiments with circles and whatnot moving across the screen, running at a semi-perpetual loop at 100 Hz, so it kind of matters what screen I use (though it doesn't matter much, I guess, as people don't see much of a difference between 100 Hz moving (my experiment), 50 Hz (TV, I think?) and 25 Hz (Flash default). Also, if you like to save stuff at each refresh (say, eye tracking data, mouse cursor position during a continuous response experiment), it starts getting important just how often this is. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Sent: 04 March 2010 14:40 To: E-Prime Subject: CRT vs. LCD I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color values might differ from what you programmed. However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for LCDs you do. So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful discussion. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 14:05:59 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:05:59 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x Message-ID: Hi together, I am wondering whether there is a way of using a Joystick in E-Prime 1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is given... Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 5 14:54:57 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:54:57 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tobias, Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: - EP1 can use only joystick buttons, not position, and then only via the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d362d9f276 ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could still get joystick position through a game port if you added sufficient inline code.) - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of the joystick functionality available directly through the E-Studio GUI. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am wondering whether there is a way of using a Joystick in E-Prime >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is >given... > >Cheers, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From joyce.humphries1 at googlemail.com Fri Mar 5 15:12:39 2010 From: joyce.humphries1 at googlemail.com (Joyce Humphries) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:12:39 +0000 Subject: Terminating sounds effects after participant responds to 10 items Message-ID: Hi All, I was wondering if someone could offer some advice with an eprime experiment that we are currently trying to set up. It's a face recognition experiment. During the learning phase participants will view 4 different groups of faces and with each group a different sound file will be played. During the test phase is where the problem arises. Participants are required to respond to ten faces while a particular sound track plays in the background. Participants can take as long as they like to respond so there is no time limit. However, once a participant has responded to all 10 images we need the sound track that is currently playing to terminate and a new sound track to begin for the second set of faces that will be shown. However, this is where our problem arises, instead of the sound track finishing it simply plays over the new track. Any advice on how to terminate the first track before the second track starts? We have four separate trails in the recognition (test) phase each with a different track playing. We would really appreciate any advice Best wishes J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 5 15:35:03 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:35:03 -0500 Subject: Terminating sounds effects after participant responds to 10 items In-Reply-To: <1f64b571003050712m60bb0f27icd1a5def7ab1df39@mail.gmail.com > Message-ID: J, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... Take a look at the SoundOut.Stop topic in the online E-Basic Help. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I was wondering if someone could offer some advice with an eprime >experiment that we are currently trying to set up. > >It's a face recognition experiment. During the learning phase >participants will view 4 different groups of faces and with each >group a different sound file will be played. During the test phase >is where the problem arises. Participants are required to respond to >ten faces while a particular sound track plays in the background. >Participants can take as long as they like to respond so there is no >time limit. However, once a participant has responded to all 10 >images we need the sound track that is currently playing to >terminate and a new sound track to begin for the second set of faces >that will be shown. However, this is where our problem arises, >instead of the sound track finishing it simply plays over the new >track. Any advice on how to terminate the first track before the >second track starts? We have four separate trails in the recognition >(test) phase each with a different track playing. > >We would really appreciate any advice > >Best wishes >J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Mar 5 17:40:58 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:40:58 -0000 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <4b911b99.5844f10a.2db1.75fbSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to emulate a mouse with a joystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like this: http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarchive.org/) Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x Tobias, Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: - EP1 can use only joystick buttons, not position, and then only via the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d362d9f276 ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could still get joystick position through a game port if you added sufficient inline code.) - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of the joystick functionality available directly through the E-Studio GUI. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am wondering whether there is a way of using a Joystick in E-Prime >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is >given... > >Cheers, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From maryesmith at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 16:29:29 2010 From: maryesmith at gmail.com (mary) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 08:29:29 -0800 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video Message-ID: Hi all, I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? Thanks, Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 8 20:23:16 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 15:23:16 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <0765e536-3ce1-4b17-be5e-14f7d0daff07@m37g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Mary, Hmm, I would bet that E-Prime has no way to overlay visual objects over a running video. But you should really submit this to PST's trained staff at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , after all they are the experts and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. Then please post their answer back here for the rest of us! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with >being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it >would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen >for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems >that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of >anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push >the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? > >Thanks, >Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 10:26:46 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:26:46 -0800 Subject: How to download an image without its background In-Reply-To: <429ce550-fe44-4ec6-b019-939a38fd2143@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: just to make it clear-in each trial there are three flankers with one of them appearing in the center. I have 9 different kinds of flankers, selceted randomly in each trail. Dor all of those I don't want Eprime to dowbload their background. On 9 מרץ, 12:24, gilis wrote: > Hi, > > In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the > center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be > transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem > is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker > itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has > background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. > > I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that > will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the > background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I > just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with > canvasing. > > Would be very very grateful for help on this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 10:53:23 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:53:23 +0000 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <0765e536-3ce1-4b17-be5e-14f7d0daff07@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Mary, The answer by David McFarlane is right* - video stimuli are always displayed in front of anything else while running. It seems possible to overlay something else over a video on a Slide or Feedback object, then move the video to the back. But when the stimuli are displayed the video always plays in front. I suspect you've discovered the warning message to this effect when trying to send a movie to the back on a slide object: "SlideMovie components selected were sent to back to permit for easier Slide component editing, but at runtime Movie components are always presented on top of all SlideText and SlideImage objects". One solution could be to edit the video files themselves - this seems like a possibility if the alteration is simple (like a fixation cross at a fixed location in all your video files). *except concerning David's disclaimer mentioning the target response times for E-Prime support requests placed online. Based on a handful of online support requests by me and other colleagues in the past month or two, the current queue for first response is about 5 working days. -david > I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with > being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it > would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen > for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems > that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of > anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push > the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? > -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 10:48:50 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:48:50 -0000 Subject: How to download an image without its background In-Reply-To: <429ce550-fe44-4ec6-b019-939a38fd2143@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, You seem to really like canvas... I remember you had another problem with err, uploading an image, and thought canvas would help there as well :) I assume you can do such things with canvas programming, but the answer is far easier. Have a look at the transparency property in the help files: take a slide, insert a picture there with, as you say, a white background, change its transparency property to transparent, its source colour to white, use source colour to yes, and bingo: every white pixel is replaced by whatever is presented underneath this image. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 09 March 2010 10:24 To: E-Prime Subject: How to download an image without its background Hi, In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with canvasing. Would be very very grateful for help on this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 10:24:19 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:24:19 -0800 Subject: How to download an image without its background Message-ID: Hi, In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with canvasing. Would be very very grateful for help on this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 11:05:59 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 03:05:59 -0800 Subject: How to download an image without its background In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02EB1C3B@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I realy shoud buy you a present :) On 9 מרץ, 12:48, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > You seem to really like canvas... I remember you had another problem with err, uploading an image, and thought canvas would help there as well :) I assume you can do such things with canvas programming, but the answer is far easier. Have a look at the transparency property in the help files: take a slide, insert a picture there with, as you say, a white background, change its transparency property to transparent, its source colour to white, use source colour to yes, and bingo: every white pixel is replaced by whatever is presented underneath this image. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 09 March 2010 10:24 > To: E-Prime > Subject: How to download an image without its background > > Hi, > > In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the > center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be > transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem > is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker > itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has > background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. > > I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that > will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the > background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I > just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with > canvasing. > > Would be very very grateful for help on this. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 9 16:16:22 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:16:22 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4B9628A3.4070706@ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mary, As an exercise, I explored this myself further using some typical non-Slide techniques for superimposing (overlaying) visual stimuli in E-Prime: (1) setting the movie/slide object Duration to 0, StopAfter to No, and following this with a regular Text object with a limited Frame size/position and BackStyle = transparent; (2) using a normal Duration on the movie/slide object, setting PreRelease the at least as long as Duration, and following that with inline code to display the text (e.g., Text.Draw or Canvas.Text). In both cases, even though my text by design clearly did *not* go to the screen until *after* the movie started, and the movie did continue to play, the movie immediately overwrote my text display (I was careful to make the text and movie frames overlap in such a way that I could still see a portion of the text beyond the edge of the movie window). And when you think about it, this all makes sense. Remember, a movie presents a rapid *sequence* of images, one frame at a time. So if you try to put a static text or image in the same space, as soon as the movie moves on to its next frame it *must* overwrite your "overlay"! I do not see any way to overcome this except to edit your overlay directly into the movie file (as David V suggest), or to incorporate sophisticated on-the-fly video mixing facilities directly into the software, much as you might find in a modern television studio. Personally, this goes beyond anything I would ask of E-Prime, although for all I know something like MatLab can already do this. Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly video mixing... -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Mary, > >The answer by David McFarlane is right* - video stimuli are always >displayed in front of anything else while running. >It seems possible to overlay something else over a video on a Slide >or Feedback object, then move the video to the back. But when the >stimuli are displayed the video always plays in front. > >I suspect you've discovered the warning message to this effect when >trying to send a movie to the back on a slide object: "SlideMovie >components selected were sent to back to permit for easier Slide >component editing, but at runtime Movie components are always >presented on top of all SlideText and SlideImage objects". > >One solution could be to edit the video files themselves - this >seems like a possibility if the alteration is simple (like a >fixation cross at a fixed location in all your video files). >*except concerning David's disclaimer mentioning the target response >times for E-Prime support requests placed online. Based on a handful >of online support requests by me and other colleagues in the past >month or two, the current queue for first response is about 5 working days. > >-david >>I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with >>being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it >>would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen >>for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems >>that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of >>anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push >>the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? >> > > >-- >David Vinson, Ph.D. >Postdoctoral Researcher >Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department >University College London >49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD >Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) >d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 16:26:39 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:26:39 +0000 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4b9674c7.5944f10a.3276.ffffc69eSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide don't work nicely either. David McFarlane wrote: > Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies on > one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly video > mixing... Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame host manager. -dv -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From morgbri at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 16:45:04 2010 From: morgbri at gmail.com (Bri Morgan) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:45:04 -0800 Subject: Error Message Help Message-ID: Hello - We are trying to create an experiment in which a slide accepts only alphanumeric responses. Allowable keys are {NUMBERS} and {SPACE}. We are using the {SPACE} to move to the next slide and the {NUMBERS} as a recorded response. We have the Max Count set to 3, so it can accept double digits and the space bar. We a re receiving an error message when a subject presses the space bar without pressing a numerical response first. Here is the script where the error occurs. OfferOK: If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then Err.Clear Resume OfferOKResume ElseIf Err.Number <> 0 Then 'NOTE: If you receive a runtime error here, it ' is because a runtime error other than ebInputAccepted ' was thrown (ebInputAccepted for catching input masks that jump). 'You are encouraged to either handle the error so that ' it is not thrown in the future or will have to set up ' your own error handler, which will also need to take ' into account for any input masks that jump. ' 'Raise the error so the default error handler will show the message Err.Raise Err.Number, Err.Source, Err.Description End If Please let me know if you have any suggestions or if there is any more information I can provide. Thank you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 9 16:49:01 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:49:01 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4B9676BF.10600@ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: David V, Ah, but you made it further than I did -- still using EP2.0.8.22, it disabled the SlideMovie icon in E-Studio as soon as I added one SlideMovie, so never even got to try multiple movies on one Slide (unless I would manually construct that in inline code, but I did not go that far :) ). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide >don't work nicely either. > >David McFarlane wrote: >>Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies >>on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly >>video mixing... >Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. >Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame host manager. > >-dv > >-- >David Vinson, Ph.D. >Postdoctoral Researcher >Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department >University College London >49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD >Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) >d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 16:53:56 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:53:56 +0000 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4b967c45.5344f10a.18b7.ffffd3d7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David M - I too am running 2.0.8.22. This appears to be another of those Pro vs Normal (Amateur?) differences - a Pro experiment permits multiple videos on a single slide (as long as they are not overlapping), a normal 2.0 experiment only allows one. -dv David McFarlane wrote: > Ah, but you made it further than I did -- still using EP2.0.8.22, it > disabled the SlideMovie icon in E-Studio as soon as I added one > SlideMovie, so never even got to try multiple movies on one Slide > (unless I would manually construct that in inline code, but I did not > go that far :) ). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >> A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide >> don't work nicely either. >> >> David McFarlane wrote: >>> Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies >>> on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly >>> video mixing... >> Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. >> Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame host >> manager. >> >> -dv >> -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 9 17:27:51 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:27:51 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4B967D23.4000002@ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: David V, Thanks. But, um, I am running EP2 Pro, and I do not see any capability there to run multiple videos on a Slide, whether or not they overlap. Indeed, at http://www.pstnet.com/eprime.cfm PST does claim that EP2 Pro can "Play multiple movies simultaneously on critical timing trials", but until another user can testify to that or PST sends me a working demo, I consider that to be just another one of their many empty promises. And since you bring up the issue of names for the two editions... Originally PST used "E-Prime 2.0 Professional" to refer to the Pro edition, and just plain "E-Prime 2.0" to refer to the non-Pro edition, which left us no way to refer to EP2 in a non-specific way and as you might imagine led to considerable confusion. PST has since relented and now officially calls the non-Pro version "Standard". This is an improvement, but I still object that what they call "Standard" is not, well, standard. The true standard is Pro, and non-Pro is only for those in special circumstances. I searched for my own alternative term and I too wanted to call non-Pro something like Baby or Amatuer (which I find just a bit too perjorative) or Basic (which then gets confused with the language BASIC). I sort of settled on calling the non-Pro version "Base", in the sense of a capable base model that nevertheless lacks enough amenities that no one seriously buys it (rather like the "base" model offered by automobile manufacturers). Sadly, now that PST officially calls it "Standard", if I start referring to "Base" then no one will know what I am talking about. Hence, as ugly and confusing as it is, I keep referring to Pro vs. non-Pro. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >David M - >I too am running 2.0.8.22. This appears to be another of those Pro >vs Normal (Amateur?) differences - a Pro experiment permits multiple >videos on a single slide (as long as they are not overlapping), a >normal 2.0 experiment only allows one. > >-dv > >David McFarlane wrote: >>Ah, but you made it further than I did -- still using EP2.0.8.22, >>it disabled the SlideMovie icon in E-Studio as soon as I added one >>SlideMovie, so never even got to try multiple movies on one Slide >>(unless I would manually construct that in inline code, but I did >>not go that far :) ). >> >>-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >>>A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide >>>don't work nicely either. >>> >>>David McFarlane wrote: >>>>Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping >>>>movies on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of >>>>on-the-fly video mixing... >>>Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. >>>Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame >>>host manager. >>> >>>-dv > > >-- >David Vinson, Ph.D. >Postdoctoral Researcher >Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department >University College London >49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD >Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) >d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk >-- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Wed Mar 10 16:45:49 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:45:49 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list Message-ID: Hi forum members! I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of the 9 images randomly from a nested list. So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all the messages concerning this topic, including this one http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85e5a9b7d (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right pictures). So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith confirming that it points to the correct nested list). And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be possible in my opinion). I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! With kind regards, Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 20:33:55 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:33:55 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <8856bc5c-e93a-4725-9287-74f4db2458eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Vera I see that you really researched well and you found all the 'elements' you need, but you didn't use them in a way that works so far. I must say that e-prime might not be the single most excellent program to create a visual search task in... although I also wouldn't know what program to better use. One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! Forget about the collumn referencing and the pointing towards procedureslists first and then to nested lists.. you don't need it. That's exactly the kind of programming that you don't want to use ;) Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In each level of this list you can make a different combination of stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] [stim2] ... [targetstim]. So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 for instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). Not sure if that will work.. think it should. I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let me know. Best liw On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera wrote: > Hi forum members! > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > pictures). > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > possible in my opinion). > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > With kind regards, > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Wed Mar 10 21:55:48 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:55:48 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <56b22727-7f61-49e3-b821-a396bf4b0258@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) Just a few comments on what you wrote: > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 attributes (9 columns basically)? > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2  for > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But then again, I think that there will be too many combinations possible. > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > me know. Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let you know. :) Greetings, Vera > > Best > > liw > > On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera wrote: > > > Hi forum members! > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 23:16:30 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:16:30 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Vera, Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed solution. There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and then filling the triallist. Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145914a543/9a190bab1a34fa8f I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were seeking for a programming-free solution. best, liw On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera wrote: > Hi Liwenna, > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2  for > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > then again, I think that > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > me know. > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > you know. :) > > Greetings, > > Vera > > > > > Best > > > liw > > > On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > pictures). > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > With kind regards, > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 23:25:12 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:25:12 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <5f04960c-cbbe-4f9d-86ea-bc9509988334@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar to your latest idea. The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it to fill a triallist. Hope it helps! On Mar 11, 12:16 am, liwenna wrote: > Hey Vera, > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > solution. > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > then filling the triallist. > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > best, > > liw > > On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera wrote: > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2  for > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > then again, I think that > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > me know. > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > you know. :) > > > Greetings, > > > Vera > > > > Best > > > > liw > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 23:31:43 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:31:43 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: and this thread could be of help too... http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c26100f8d2bc it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 target and 15 distractors . On Mar 11, 12:25 am, liwenna wrote: > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > to your latest idea. > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > to fill a triallist. > > Hope it helps! > > On Mar 11, 12:16 am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Vera, > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > solution. > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > then filling the triallist. > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > best, > > > liw > > > On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2  for > > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > > then again, I think that > > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > > me know. > > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > > you know. :) > > > > Greetings, > > > > Vera > > > > > Best > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > > pictures). > > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 00:07:07 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:07:07 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <6e893dcf-c810-425e-a245-fd44a2c8851e@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get some help. :) Take care, Vera On Mar 11, 12:31 am, liwenna wrote: > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > target and 15 distractors . > > On Mar 11, 12:25 am, liwenna wrote: > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > to your latest idea. > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > to fill a triallist. > > > Hope it helps! > > > On Mar 11, 12:16 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > solution. > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > best, > > > > liw > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2  for > > > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > > > then again, I think that > > > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > > > me know. > > > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > > > you know. :) > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > Vera > > > > > > Best > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > > > pictures). > > > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 12:49:04 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:49:04 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <86485896-dd61-4ea8-9265-99a3ef5cbaec@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Vera, I couldn't let go and I kinda overdid it a bit but here is an extensive post that I think should help you out. What you do want to control is the number of times the target appears at each location. You have nine locations, so you make 9 levels in your triallist and create all the combinations of targetstimulus and targetlocations (x and y values) in that list (attributenames: targetstim for the picturename, targetx and targety). In this list you also create the attribute for the 8 distractorstimpictures (disstim1, disstim2 etc) but not fill these cells. Once the x and y of the target are defined the distractorstimuli automatically should get the other 8 x and y values so also create attributes for the x and y values of the distractors in this list (dis1x, dis1y, dis2x, dis2y etc.) and fill them with the remaining 8 x and y values for each level. Now you can have 9 imageobjects in your slide that refer to [targetstim], [disstim1], [disstim2] etc. and also to the x and y values for each stim in the list: [targetx] [targety], [dis1x], [dis1y], [dis2x] etc. The only cells not filled yet are the cells that define the picturenames of the distractorstimuli (disstim1, distim2 etc in your triallist). These cells can be filled by adjusting the code referred to above from a random array. Something like the below thing should work (didn't test this one out in e-prime however as I am at home today). Place this code in an inline on the procedure on which your triallist is.... so... on your experimentprocedure you should make a blocklist with a blockprocedure and on the blockprocedure you place this in an inline in front of the triallist which you also place on the blockprocedure. The inline fills the 9 levels of the triallist and then the procedure proceeds to run the triallist. By setting the blocklist to repeat a x number of times, the procedure that contains the triallist-filling-inline as well as the triallist itself (set the triallist to run once but random!) will be run an x number of times and on each run the triallist will receive new random distractors. Explanation of the code: disarray is the array that holds the distractorstimulinames and is as big as the number of stimuli you have... say you have 4 different stimuli (blue circle, yellow circle, blue square, yellow square) this is array has 4 levels and because 0 is also a level it is defined as disarray(3). Each level of the array (number between brackets) is filled with a filename and then the array is randomized. Then m refers to level numbers. In the 'codeline' "triallist.SetAttrib m", m can be 1, 2, 3 etc up to 9 as we have 9 levels (nine positions of the target). The code For m = 1 to 9 makes eprime repeat the code that is between that line and the line 'next m' 9 times, each time replacing m in the inbetween code. A similar array is used to randomise the stimattribute into which each filename is placed. We have attributes called disstim1, disstim2 etc, so we need to manipulate the identifying numbers randomly. For that we create an array with 8 levels (randomposarray(7) ) and fill it with the numbers 1 to 8. I understood from your post that in each trial 2 distractors will be used four times, so the code fills four of the 'stimx' cells with the filename that is in level 0 of the randomized array, and another four with the filename that is in level 1 of the array. After filling level m = 1 it restarts from 'for m = 1-9' and goes to fill level m=2. At restarting from 'for m = 1 to 9' it rerandomizes the arrays before it starts filling the random-n cells of disstim with the new (because rerandomizing the array) filenames that are in level 0 and 1 of the array. The two arrays are best created on the usertab of the scriptwindow. There you place the following lines: ************ *create an array to hold your 4 (? otherwise adjust) distractor filenames and another one that holds the 8 identifying numbers of the 8 distractor stimuli. dim disarray(3) as string dim randomposarray(7) as integer ************ The rest goes in the inline preceding the triallist. Although placement kinda depends on your needs... if you use one target troughout the experiment the filling of the arrays can also be done on the usertab or you could move both the dim array lines and the filling lines to a place in the beginning of your experiment. If you want different blocks with different targets you'll have to refill the distractorarray each time the target changes (cause then automatically the distractors change too). Just make sure that e-prime does not have to repeat the dim-lines, cause it doesn't like that. *************inlinecode******* *fill the distractorarray with the filenames. disarray(0) = stimname1.png disarray(1)= stimname2.png disarray(2)=stimname3.png disarray(3)=stimname4.png * fill randomposarray with the numbers 0 -7 randomposarray(0) = 1 randomposarray(1) = 2 randomposarray(2) = 3 randomposarray(3) = 4 randomposarray(4) = 5 randomposarray(5) = 6 randomposarray(6) = 7 randomposarray(7) = 8 *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be filled. for m = 1-9 *at the beginning of filling each level, first randomize the arrays that hold the filenames and the identifying numbers of each distractor. randomizearray disarray randomizearray randomposarray *Four disstims get the filename that is in level 0 of the array. Which four is defined by the randomized randomposarray: first we fill the stims that have the numbers that are now in the first *four levels of randomposarray (levels 0-3, replaced by n in this line of code) for n = 0-3 triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(0) next n *the second four disstims (the numbers are given by levels 4 to 7 of randomposarray) get the filename that is in level 1 of the distractorarray for n = 4-7 triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(1) next n *when e-prime gets here 1 level (m) of the triallist is filled and it goes back to 'for m = 1 to 9' to do the next m. next m when all m (9) levels are filled it wil start running the triallist (as this is next on the blockprocedure). ************endofcode******** That all said... in the old paper and pencil days visual search tasks weren't randomized either... -_- Good luck! liw On Mar 11, 1:07 am, Vera wrote: > Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) > > Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure > go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started > "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other > solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how > far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get > some help. :) > > Take care, Vera > > On Mar 11, 12:31 am, liwenna wrote: > > > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > > target and 15 distractors . > > > On Mar 11, 12:25 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > > to your latest idea. > > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > > to fill a triallist. > > > > Hope it helps! > > > > On Mar 11, 12:16 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > > solution. > > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > > best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > > > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > > > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > > > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > > > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > > > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > > > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > > > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2  for > > > > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > > > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > > > > then again, I think that > > > > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > > > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > > > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > > > > me know. > > > > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > > > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > > > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > > > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > > > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > > > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > > > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > > > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > > > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > > > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > > > > you know. :) > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Vera > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > > > > pictures). > > > > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > > > > be > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 12:51:52 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:51:52 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <0c81e699-924e-4ebb-9d7e-1f741ef4aa12@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: oops... in the comments inbetween the code quite some *'s are missing... for instance in this comment: *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be filled. for m = 1-9 lines 2 and 3 could use a * and only line 4 is actual code. But I guess you can figure it out. On Mar 11, 1:49 pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey Vera, > > I couldn't let go and I kinda overdid it a bit but here is an > extensive post that I think should help you out. > > What you do want to control is the number of times the target appears > at each location. You have nine locations, so you make 9 levels in > your triallist and create all the combinations of targetstimulus and > targetlocations (x and y values) in that list (attributenames: > targetstim for the picturename, targetx and targety). In this list you > also create the attribute for the 8 distractorstimpictures (disstim1, > disstim2 etc) but not fill these cells. Once the x and y of the target > are defined the distractorstimuli automatically should get the other 8 > x and y values so also create attributes for the x and y values of the > distractors in this list (dis1x, dis1y, dis2x, dis2y etc.) and fill > them with the remaining 8 x and y values for each level. Now you can > have 9 imageobjects in your slide that refer to [targetstim], > [disstim1], [disstim2] etc. and also to the x and  y values for each > stim in the list: [targetx] [targety], [dis1x], [dis1y], [dis2x] etc. > > The only cells not filled yet are the cells that define the > picturenames of the distractorstimuli (disstim1, distim2 etc in your > triallist). These cells can be filled by adjusting the code referred > to above from a random array. Something like the below thing should > work (didn't test this one out in e-prime however as I am at home > today). Place this code in an inline on the procedure on which your > triallist is.... so... on your experimentprocedure you should make a > blocklist with a blockprocedure and on the blockprocedure you place > this in an inline in front of the triallist which you also place on > the blockprocedure. The inline fills the 9 levels of the triallist and > then the procedure proceeds to run the triallist. By setting the > blocklist to repeat a x number of times, the procedure that contains > the triallist-filling-inline as well as the triallist itself (set the > triallist to run once but random!) will be run an x number of times > and on each run the triallist will receive new random distractors. > > Explanation of the code: > disarray is the array that holds the distractorstimulinames and is as > big as the number of stimuli you have... say you have 4 different > stimuli (blue circle, yellow circle, blue square, yellow square) this > is array has 4 levels and because 0 is also a level it is defined as > disarray(3). > > Each level of the array (number between brackets) is filled with a > filename and then the array is randomized. > > Then m refers to level numbers. In the 'codeline' "triallist.SetAttrib > m", m can be 1, 2, 3 etc up to 9 as we have 9 levels (nine positions > of the target). The code For m = 1 to 9 makes eprime repeat the code > that is between that line and the line 'next m' 9 times, each time > replacing m in the inbetween code. > > A similar array is used to randomise the stimattribute into which each > filename is placed. We have attributes called disstim1, disstim2 etc, > so we need to manipulate the identifying numbers randomly. For that we > create an array with 8 levels (randomposarray(7) ) and fill it with > the numbers 1 to 8. > > I understood from your post that in each trial 2 distractors will be > used four times, so the code fills four of the 'stimx' cells with the > filename that is in level 0 of the randomized array, and another four > with the filename that is in level 1 of the array. After filling level > m = 1 it restarts from 'for m = 1-9' and goes to fill level m=2.  At > restarting from 'for m = 1 to 9' it rerandomizes the arrays before it > starts filling the random-n cells of disstim with the new (because > rerandomizing the array) filenames that are in level 0 and 1 of the > array. > > The two arrays are best created on the usertab of the scriptwindow. > There you place the following lines: > > ************ > *create an array to hold your 4 (? otherwise adjust) distractor > filenames and another one that holds the 8 identifying numbers of the > 8 distractor stimuli. > dim disarray(3) as string > dim randomposarray(7) as integer > ************ > > The rest goes in the inline preceding the triallist. Although > placement kinda depends on your needs... if you use one target > troughout the experiment the filling of the arrays can also be done on > the usertab or you could move both the dim array lines and the filling > lines to a place in the beginning of your experiment. If you want > different blocks with different targets  you'll have to refill the > distractorarray each time the target changes (cause then automatically > the distractors change too). Just make sure that e-prime does not have > to repeat the dim-lines, cause it doesn't like that. > > *************inlinecode******* > *fill the distractorarray with the filenames. > disarray(0) = stimname1.png > disarray(1)= stimname2.png > disarray(2)=stimname3.png > disarray(3)=stimname4.png > > * fill randomposarray with the numbers 0 -7 > randomposarray(0) = 1 > randomposarray(1) = 2 > randomposarray(2) = 3 > randomposarray(3) = 4 > randomposarray(4) = 5 > randomposarray(5) = 6 > randomposarray(6) = 7 > randomposarray(7) = 8 > > *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with > m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be > filled. > for m = 1-9 > > *at the beginning of filling each level, first randomize the arrays > that hold the filenames and the identifying numbers of each > distractor. > randomizearray disarray > randomizearray randomposarray > > *Four disstims get the filename that is in level 0 of the array. Which > four is defined by the randomized randomposarray: first we fill the > stims that have the numbers that are now in the first *four levels of > randomposarray (levels 0-3, replaced by n in this line of code) > for n = 0-3 > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(0) > > next n > > *the second four disstims (the numbers are given by levels 4 to 7 of > randomposarray) get the filename that is in level 1 of the > distractorarray > for n = 4-7 > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(1) > > next n > > *when e-prime gets here 1 level (m) of the triallist is filled and it > goes back to 'for m = 1 to 9' to do the next m. > next m when all m (9) levels are filled it wil start running the > triallist (as this is next on the blockprocedure). > ************endofcode******** > > That all said... in the old paper and pencil days visual search tasks > weren't randomized either... -_- > > Good luck! > > liw > > On Mar 11, 1:07 am, Vera wrote: > > > Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) > > > Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure > > go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started > > "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other > > solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how > > far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get > > some help. :) > > > Take care, Vera > > > On Mar 11, 12:31 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > > > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > > > target and 15 distractors . > > > > On Mar 11, 12:25 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > > > to your latest idea. > > > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > > > to fill a triallist. > > > > > Hope it helps! > > > > > On Mar 11, 12:16 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > > > solution. > > > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > > > best, > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 11 14:12:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:12:56 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <8856bc5c-e93a-4725-9287-74f4db2458eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Vera, Wow, what a discussion this sparked! I think E-Prime can do what you want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any inline code. As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". So if you do not already have this working, here is another homework assignment for you: Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials and work through all of those. That might give you enough ideas to figure it out. But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this thread some time next week and I will post more details on this approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson will "take"). And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although reported response time is currently more like 5 days). If you do contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > pictures). > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > possible in my opinion). > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > With kind regards, > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 11 14:42:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:42:10 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vera, Oh, and one more bit of generic programming advice that I repeat here from time to time -- If your actual experiment program has any complexity to it, then set that aside and exercise all your ideas on smaller demo programs that you make just for that purpose, then when you get your techniques worked out just apply those back to your actual experiment program. Everybody (including me) thinks that they can save time by working out fixes directly in their actual experiment programs, and everybody (including me) is wrong about that. You save time by working out the techniques in smaller "exercise" programs, then applying what you learn back to your actual experiment program. This becomes especially true when you have to work out the finer points of E-Prime as "documented" in the online E-Basic Help. As crucial as the online E-Basic Help is to gaining any real understanding of E-Prime, in many many places it is at best misleading, and at worst just plain wrong (not to mention that much of the example code does not even compile), and PST takes no interest in fixing that (I have personally posted several corrections to PST and continue to do so, to almost no avail). So if, like me, you ever have to understand how E-Prime really works, then you will have to make many, many small demo programs in order to overcome the rampant misinformation throughout the documentation. And BTW, this is where PST Web Support comes in. Many of us have the old-fashioned notion that Support is a last resort. But as a result of discussions with PST staff I now understand that PST Web Support is their substitute for adequate documentation. So once again, I urge everyone to get over your inhibitions and to consult PST Web Support every bit as much as you would otherwise consult the documentation. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Mar 11, 9:12 am, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked!  I think E-Prime can do what you > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > inline code.  As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax".  So if you do not > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > you:  Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > and work through all of those.  That might give you enough ideas to > figure it out.  But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > will "take"). > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > reported response time is currently more like 5 days).  If you do > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From susangc7 at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 15:05:17 2010 From: susangc7 at gmail.com (Susan) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:05:17 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know if I'm interrupting the programming/scripting lesson or adding to it, but I seem to recall solving a similar problem back in the dark ages (beta 0.8, so here's hoping backwards compatibility is still solid; I can't check at home on my Mac). My solution is available here with a basic description of what the script is doing: http://step.psy.cmu.edu/scripts/Attention/EriksenStJames1986.html As an aside, I never really figured out how to make that site more useful for people looking for techniques rather than paradigms; a lot of techniques that work for one type of experiment crop up elsewhere. I like to think there are some useful scripts on the site anyway, both in the stuff I implemented as teaching tools during the beta and in the stuff that various people have submitted since. Finding the right ones may take a little time, though. HTH, Susan On Mar 11, 9:42 am, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Oh, and one more bit of generic programming advice that I repeat here > from time to time -- If your actual experiment program has any > complexity to it, then set that aside and exercise all your ideas on > smaller demo programs that you make just for that purpose, then when > you get your techniques worked out just apply those back to your > actual experiment program.  Everybody (including me) thinks that they > can save time by working out fixes directly in their actual experiment > programs, and everybody (including me) is wrong about that.  You save > time by working out the techniques in smaller "exercise" programs, > then applying what you learn back to your actual experiment program. > > > This becomes especially true when you have to work out the finer > points of E-Prime as "documented" in the online E-Basic Help.  As > crucial as the online E-Basic Help is to gaining any real > understanding of E-Prime, in many many places it is at best > misleading, and at worst just plain wrong (not to mention that much of > the example code does not even compile), and PST takes no interest in > fixing that (I have personally posted several corrections to PST and > continue to do so, to almost no avail).  So if, like me, you ever have > to understand how E-Prime really works, then you will have to make > many, many small demo programs in order to overcome the rampant > misinformation throughout the documentation. > > And BTW, this is where PST Web Support comes in.  Many of us have the > old-fashioned notion that Support is a last resort.  But as a result > of discussions with PST staff I now understand that PST Web Support is > their substitute for adequate documentation.  So once again, I urge > everyone to get over your inhibitions and to consult PST Web Support > every bit as much as you would otherwise consult the documentation. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 11, 9:12 am, dkmcf wrote: > > > > > Vera, > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked!  I think E-Prime can do what you > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > inline code.  As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax".  So if you do not > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > you:  Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > and work through all of those.  That might give you enough ideas to > > figure it out.  But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > will "take"). > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days).  If you do > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > pictures). > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > With kind regards, > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 16:51:23 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:51:23 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02E263DD@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape wrote: > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc...) > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > Tobias, > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > thread to my own FAQ file).  But here is a very brief synopsis: > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > ).  (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > sufficient inline code.) > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > >given... > > >Cheers, > >Tobias > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 16:56:28 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:56:28 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the joystick? we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable): http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=us,en the buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only receive keyboard input... On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc.. > .) > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spapé > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > Tobias, > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > >given... > > > > >Cheers, > > >Tobias > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 18:53:44 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:53:44 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi David, well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot already and trying every single solution I could think of (including scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon syntax...). :-) For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too (well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute [ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up with 9 times the same image on the slide). So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: 1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just write them into E-Prime. 2. Write some kind of script 3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can control some driving task with the secondary task. So I still need to find a solution!!! :-) On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked!  I think E-Prime can do what you > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > inline code.  As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax".  So if you do not > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > you:  Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > and work through all of those.  That might give you enough ideas to > figure it out.  But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > will "take"). > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > reported response time is currently more like 5 days).  If you do > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 18:54:42 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:54:42 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh yes, I will definitely contact PST! On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked!  I think E-Prime can do what you > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > inline code.  As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax".  So if you do not > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > you:  Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > and work through all of those.  That might give you enough ideas to > figure it out.  But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > will "take"). > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > reported response time is currently more like 5 days).  If you do > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 18:59:30 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:59:30 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, thanks for the very long post. I am going to try and implement this tomorrow (I worked all day with an IT-specialist today, trying to "code" around the problem) but in the end everything actually even got worse and we didn't find any solution really) so that this evening (well, for what is left of my evening) I will let E-Prime be E-Prime and do something else (watching some brain-dead-thing on the TV sounds like a perfect idea!!!) before my head explodes! I will look into your solution tomorrow though (or else this weekend, as tomorrow I will have to make sure that my "pictures-solution" works more or less so we can make a quick pilot study next week). Thanks a lot though for the effort and know that I will study your lines intensively when I get the opportunity (I am very unhappy with the generated-images solution we are going to use now). Greetings, Vera On Mar 11, 1:51 pm, liwenna wrote: > oops... in the comments inbetween the code quite some *'s are > missing... > > for instance in this comment: > *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with > m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be > filled. > for m = 1-9 > > lines 2 and 3 could use a * and only line 4 is actual code. But I > guess you can figure it out. > > On Mar 11, 1:49 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Vera, > > > I couldn't let go and I kinda overdid it a bit but here is an > > extensive post that I think should help you out. > > > What you do want to control is the number of times the target appears > > at each location. You have nine locations, so you make 9 levels in > > your triallist and create all the combinations of targetstimulus and > > targetlocations (x and y values) in that list (attributenames: > > targetstim for the picturename, targetx and targety). In this list you > > also create the attribute for the 8 distractorstimpictures (disstim1, > > disstim2 etc) but not fill these cells. Once the x and y of the target > > are defined the distractorstimuli automatically should get the other 8 > > x and y values so also create attributes for the x and y values of the > > distractors in this list (dis1x, dis1y, dis2x, dis2y etc.) and fill > > them with the remaining 8 x and y values for each level. Now you can > > have 9 imageobjects in your slide that refer to [targetstim], > > [disstim1], [disstim2] etc. and also to the x and  y values for each > > stim in the list: [targetx] [targety], [dis1x], [dis1y], [dis2x] etc. > > > The only cells not filled yet are the cells that define the > > picturenames of the distractorstimuli (disstim1, distim2 etc in your > > triallist). These cells can be filled by adjusting the code referred > > to above from a random array. Something like the below thing should > > work (didn't test this one out in e-prime however as I am at home > > today). Place this code in an inline on the procedure on which your > > triallist is.... so... on your experimentprocedure you should make a > > blocklist with a blockprocedure and on the blockprocedure you place > > this in an inline in front of the triallist which you also place on > > the blockprocedure. The inline fills the 9 levels of the triallist and > > then the procedure proceeds to run the triallist. By setting the > > blocklist to repeat a x number of times, the procedure that contains > > the triallist-filling-inline as well as the triallist itself (set the > > triallist to run once but random!) will be run an x number of times > > and on each run the triallist will receive new random distractors. > > > Explanation of the code: > > disarray is the array that holds the distractorstimulinames and is as > > big as the number of stimuli you have... say you have 4 different > > stimuli (blue circle, yellow circle, blue square, yellow square) this > > is array has 4 levels and because 0 is also a level it is defined as > > disarray(3). > > > Each level of the array (number between brackets) is filled with a > > filename and then the array is randomized. > > > Then m refers to level numbers. In the 'codeline' "triallist.SetAttrib > > m", m can be 1, 2, 3 etc up to 9 as we have 9 levels (nine positions > > of the target). The code For m = 1 to 9 makes eprime repeat the code > > that is between that line and the line 'next m' 9 times, each time > > replacing m in the inbetween code. > > > A similar array is used to randomise the stimattribute into which each > > filename is placed. We have attributes called disstim1, disstim2 etc, > > so we need to manipulate the identifying numbers randomly. For that we > > create an array with 8 levels (randomposarray(7) ) and fill it with > > the numbers 1 to 8. > > > I understood from your post that in each trial 2 distractors will be > > used four times, so the code fills four of the 'stimx' cells with the > > filename that is in level 0 of the randomized array, and another four > > with the filename that is in level 1 of the array. After filling level > > m = 1 it restarts from 'for m = 1-9' and goes to fill level m=2.  At > > restarting from 'for m = 1 to 9' it rerandomizes the arrays before it > > starts filling the random-n cells of disstim with the new (because > > rerandomizing the array) filenames that are in level 0 and 1 of the > > array. > > > The two arrays are best created on the usertab of the scriptwindow. > > There you place the following lines: > > > ************ > > *create an array to hold your 4 (? otherwise adjust) distractor > > filenames and another one that holds the 8 identifying numbers of the > > 8 distractor stimuli. > > dim disarray(3) as string > > dim randomposarray(7) as integer > > ************ > > > The rest goes in the inline preceding the triallist. Although > > placement kinda depends on your needs... if you use one target > > troughout the experiment the filling of the arrays can also be done on > > the usertab or you could move both the dim array lines and the filling > > lines to a place in the beginning of your experiment. If you want > > different blocks with different targets  you'll have to refill the > > distractorarray each time the target changes (cause then automatically > > the distractors change too). Just make sure that e-prime does not have > > to repeat the dim-lines, cause it doesn't like that. > > > *************inlinecode******* > > *fill the distractorarray with the filenames. > > disarray(0) = stimname1.png > > disarray(1)= stimname2.png > > disarray(2)=stimname3.png > > disarray(3)=stimname4.png > > > * fill randomposarray with the numbers 0 -7 > > randomposarray(0) = 1 > > randomposarray(1) = 2 > > randomposarray(2) = 3 > > randomposarray(3) = 4 > > randomposarray(4) = 5 > > randomposarray(5) = 6 > > randomposarray(6) = 7 > > randomposarray(7) = 8 > > > *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with > > m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be > > filled. > > for m = 1-9 > > > *at the beginning of filling each level, first randomize the arrays > > that hold the filenames and the identifying numbers of each > > distractor. > > randomizearray disarray > > randomizearray randomposarray > > > *Four disstims get the filename that is in level 0 of the array. Which > > four is defined by the randomized randomposarray: first we fill the > > stims that have the numbers that are now in the first *four levels of > > randomposarray (levels 0-3, replaced by n in this line of code) > > for n = 0-3 > > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(0) > > > next n > > > *the second four disstims (the numbers are given by levels 4 to 7 of > > randomposarray) get the filename that is in level 1 of the > > distractorarray > > for n = 4-7 > > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(1) > > > next n > > > *when e-prime gets here 1 level (m) of the triallist is filled and it > > goes back to 'for m = 1 to 9' to do the next m. > > next m when all m (9) levels are filled it wil start running the > > triallist (as this is next on the blockprocedure). > > ************endofcode******** > > > That all said... in the old paper and pencil days visual search tasks > > weren't randomized either... -_- > > > Good luck! > > > liw > > > On Mar 11, 1:07 am, Vera wrote: > > > > Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) > > > > Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure > > > go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started > > > "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other > > > solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how > > > far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get > > > some help. :) > > > > Take care, Vera > > > > On Mar 11, 12:31 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > > > > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > > > > target and 15 distractors . > > > > > On Mar 11, 12:25 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > > > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > > > > to your latest idea. > > > > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > > > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > > > > to fill a triallist. > > > > > > Hope it helps! > > > > > > On Mar 11, 12:16 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > > > > solution. > > > > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > > > > best, > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 19:01:33 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:01:33 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: @Susan: Thanks for the link towards the script. I knew the website, but as you said, it takes a lot of time (sometimes) to find something actually useful. I have been going through some scripts though in the hope to get some clues, ideas and maybe solutions, but I didn't try your script. I will have a look into it once my head will be fresh again (in other words: tomorrow or this weekend). :-) Thanks a lot! On Mar 11, 4:05 pm, Susan wrote: > I don't know if I'm interrupting the programming/scripting lesson or > adding to it, but I seem to recall solving a similar problem back in > the dark ages (beta 0.8, so here's hoping backwards compatibility is > still solid; I can't check at home on my Mac). > > My solution is available here with a basic description of what the > script is doing:http://step.psy.cmu.edu/scripts/Attention/EriksenStJames1986.html > > As an aside, I never really figured out how to make that site more > useful for people looking for techniques rather than paradigms; a lot > of techniques that work for one type of experiment crop up elsewhere. > I like to think there are some useful scripts on the site anyway, both > in the stuff I implemented as teaching tools during the beta and in > the stuff that various people have submitted since. Finding the right > ones may take a little time, though. > > HTH, > Susan > > On Mar 11, 9:42 am, dkmcf wrote: > > > Vera, > > > Oh, and one more bit of generic programming advice that I repeat here > > from time to time -- If your actual experiment program has any > > complexity to it, then set that aside and exercise all your ideas on > > smaller demo programs that you make just for that purpose, then when > > you get your techniques worked out just apply those back to your > > actual experiment program.  Everybody (including me) thinks that they > > can save time by working out fixes directly in their actual experiment > > programs, and everybody (including me) is wrong about that.  You save > > time by working out the techniques in smaller "exercise" programs, > > then applying what you learn back to your actual experiment program. > > > > > This becomes especially true when you have to work out the finer > > points of E-Prime as "documented" in the online E-Basic Help.  As > > crucial as the online E-Basic Help is to gaining any real > > understanding of E-Prime, in many many places it is at best > > misleading, and at worst just plain wrong (not to mention that much of > > the example code does not even compile), and PST takes no interest in > > fixing that (I have personally posted several corrections to PST and > > continue to do so, to almost no avail).  So if, like me, you ever have > > to understand how E-Prime really works, then you will have to make > > many, many small demo programs in order to overcome the rampant > > misinformation throughout the documentation. > > > And BTW, this is where PST Web Support comes in.  Many of us have the > > old-fashioned notion that Support is a last resort.  But as a result > > of discussions with PST staff I now understand that PST Web Support is > > their substitute for adequate documentation.  So once again, I urge > > everyone to get over your inhibitions and to consult PST Web Support > > every bit as much as you would otherwise consult the documentation. > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > On Mar 11, 9:12 am, dkmcf wrote: > > > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked!  I think E-Prime can do what you > > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > > inline code.  As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax".  So if you do not > > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > > you:  Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > > and work through all of those.  That might give you enough ideas to > > > figure it out.  But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days).  If you do > > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From kellerj at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 22:33:20 2010 From: kellerj at gmail.com (Jen Keller) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:33:20 -0800 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" Message-ID: Hello, I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just to make sure they are there. Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? Thanks in advance. Best, Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 11 23:47:26 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:47:26 -0500 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vera, Good. I just needed better assurance that you had some experience with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make sense. And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), so if you get that to work then more power to you. In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that Susan mentioned. I hope that program does not represent the quality of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex for what it needs to do. It does indeed show a bit of using colon syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text. Of course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else matters. Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of discussion. Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those three spots. And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!). We start with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): material/[Stim1].png material/[Stim2].png material/[Stim3].png Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this may not line up well in your reader): Weight Nested Procedure Stim1 Stim2 Stim3 1 StimList TrialProc [Stim:0] [Stim:1] [Stim:2] Almost done. Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., Stim circle square And we set StimList to Random order. So how does this all work? E-Prime shuffles the StimList. On each round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then those go right into the three locations in StimSlide. See how simple that is once you get it all sorted out? And not a line of code! You just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. As I have presented it this should still work for picture files. If you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for the special cases of images and sounds in Slides). Also, you could replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. Whew! You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, because I do have other work to do to. So give this a whirl if you like. Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of Expedition Robinson). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Hi David, > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon >syntax...). :-) > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one >column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my >list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, >I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute >[ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I >created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem >here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line >at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up >with 9 times the same image on the slide). > >So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: > >1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just >write them into E-Prime. >2. Write some kind of script >3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). > >The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the >moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- >time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution >rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because >after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate >with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can >control some driving task with the secondary task. > >So I still need to find a solution!!! > >:-) > > > >On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! I think E-Prime can do what you > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > inline code. As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". So if you do not > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > you: Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > and work through all of those. That might give you enough ideas to > > figure it out. But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). If you do > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this > onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Fri Mar 12 10:47:35 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:47:35 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Grrr, too fast: relevation = revelation ;-) On Mar 12, 11:46 am, Vera wrote: > Hello everybody! > > Well, here I am, back after a good night of sleep (or almost, somehow > I woke up several times thinking about columns, lines and > trials...). ;-) We might think that E-Prime is actually getting "into > me". Well, as I had started some programming (as I really figured I > had tried every possible solution, looked at the file Susan sent by > the way, it seems VERY complicated to me and I also have a run-time > error (or was it compilation error??)) which makes I can't actually > run the program, but at least I had a look at the structure and I > think I get the point. > > So then after yesterday having been programming the whole day (got > some help from a collegue though as I am completely new to programming > in general) and after some kind of "relevation" this morning (I don't > know why I thought of the solution I found, but it worked) I got a > solution, which I am now very happy (and proud! ;-) ) to post here: > > In Eprime itself I made 3 slidestates (one with 9, another one with 16 > and another one with 25 images). To each image a dummy image needs to > be attributed - in my case I put a simple dummy.png which is simply a > black square (my background is black too). Yep, it's a lot of work > doing that all by hand, especially because you can't change settings > for all images at once. > In my DesignList I created different attributes ("Target" (filled with > 1's and 0's), "Image" (empty), "CorrectResponse (filled with 1's and > 2's) and "SlideState" filled with one of the possible slidestates for > each condition. > > Then, in my Trial Procedure (the one that follows the DesignList), I > created a script (before the slide) as follows: > > 'Eprime reads out for every line in the column "SlideState" which > 'slidestate it needs to take. It replaces the strings in this column > 'by z with a dIfferent number (in this case the number of items: > ' 9, 16 or 25). > > If c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State09" Then >                 z = 9 >         ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State16" Then >                 z = 16 >         ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State25" Then >                 z = 25 > End If > > 'E-Prime reads out of the column "Target" if a target is present > 'or not (in this case 0 indicates the absence of a target, 1 > 'indicates the presence of a target. After reading out, it transforms > 'those values to an y-value. > > If c.getAttrib("Target") = 0 then >                 y = 0 >         ElseIf c.getAttrib("Target") = 1 then >                 y = 1 > End If > > 'For the number 1 until z or 1 until (z-y) n case a target is present > - > 'which translates into 1 until 25 or 1 until (25-1) when a target is > 'present - a sequence is created with numbers from 1 and 2. > > For i = 1 to z - y >         sequence(i) = Random(1,2) > Next > > 'And after those random numbers have been generated, a target > '(or not) is added. > > If y = 1 then >         sequence(z) = 0 > End If > > 'This sequence is then randomized, but only for the array members > '1 until z (take care to do this, because if not, you might possibly > 'find 2 or more targets in your trial. > > randomizearray sequence, 1, z > > 'This is done as to get the output of the sequence written into the > 'textfile as a string. You don't need to do this for the program to > 'work. I just added this so afterwords I could know at which > 'position exactly the target had been as well as the position > 'of the different distractors. E-Prime just gives out a string > 'for exp. 102122111 indicating that there was one target (0) > 'on position two and distractors (1) and (2) on the other positions. > > s = str(sequence(1)) > > For i = 2 to z >         s = s + Str(sequence(i)) > Next > > c.setAttrib "Image", s > > 'SlidePres here gets the information about which slidestate to > 'refer to > > SlidePres.ActiveState = c.GetAttrib("SlideState") > > 'Images are generated > > Dim images (1 to z) As SlideImage > For i = 1 to z >         dim num as string >         dim image_name as string >         num = Str(i) >         num = LTrim$(num) >         image_name = "Image" + num >         Set images(i) = > CSlideImage(SlidePres.States(SlidePres.ActiveState).Objects(image_name)) > Next > > 'And filled with the right image according to the sequence we > 'generated above. Make sure to write two \\ in the path to the > 'filename, as if not Eprime (or Visual Basic) interpretes it as > 'some kind of operator. > > For i = 1 to z >         If sequence(i) = 0 then >         images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_square.png" >         ElseIf sequence(i) = 1 then >                 images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_triangle.png" >         ElseIf sequence(i) = 2 then >                 images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\blue_square.png" >         End If > Next > > 'Images get loaded > > For i = 1 to z >         images(i).Load > Next > > 'The slide is drawn > > SlidePres.Draw > > Voilà!!!! :-) I am really happy it works!!! :-) Thanks a lot for your > help to all of you, I will for sure still try to get working some of > the solutions you proposed (I am still convinced that E-Prime should > work without programming - and for me, although I learend something > and it now works, I still don't like the programming part) and > especially your solutions David and Liwenna, because they seem to be > good ones too. I also didn't abandon my "fix images project" (I had a > programmer here generate 300 different pics for me) so I have a backup > in case all this will finally not work like I imagined. :-) > > In the meanwhile, have a nice day and thanks again for all your help! > > Vera (very relieved) > > On Mar 12, 12:47 am, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Vera, > > > Good.  I just needed better assurance that you had some experience > > with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make > > sense.  And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged > > combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the > > days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), > > so if you get that to work then more power to you. > > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > > Susan mentioned.  I hope that program does not represent the quality > > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > > for what it needs to do.  It does indeed show a bit of using colon > > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text.  Of > > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. > > > Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with > > text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you > > cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else > > matters.  Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". > > > So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of > > discussion.  Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, > > and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those > > three spots.  And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use > > file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do > > *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!).  We start > > with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with > > three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead > > to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): > > > material/[Stim1].png > > material/[Stim2].png > > material/[Stim3].png > > > Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes > > (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a > > colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this > > may not line up well in your reader): > > > Weight  Nested    Procedure  Stim1     Stim2     Stim3 > >       1  StimList  TrialProc  [Stim:0]  [Stim:1]  [Stim:2] > > > Almost done.  Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim > > and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., > > Stim > > circle > > square > > > And we set StimList to Random order. > > > So how does this all work?  E-Prime shuffles the StimList.  On each > > round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then > > those go right into the three locations in StimSlide.  See how simple > > that is once you get it all sorted out?  And not a line of code!  You > > just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. > > > As I have presented it this should still work for picture files.  If > > you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out > > the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in > > StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for > > the special cases of images and sounds in Slides).  Also, you could > > replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon > > syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. > > > Whew!  You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, > > because I do have other work to do to.  So give this a whirl if you > > like.  Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get > > home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of > > Expedition Robinson). > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, > > No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." > > (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) > > > At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: > > > >Hi David, > > > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later > > >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot > > >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including > > >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon > > >syntax...). :-) > > > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too > > >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- > > >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one > > >column so to say) which is > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Fri Mar 12 10:46:25 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:46:25 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <4b998110.5244f10a.3a98.21a7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello everybody! Well, here I am, back after a good night of sleep (or almost, somehow I woke up several times thinking about columns, lines and trials...). ;-) We might think that E-Prime is actually getting "into me". Well, as I had started some programming (as I really figured I had tried every possible solution, looked at the file Susan sent by the way, it seems VERY complicated to me and I also have a run-time error (or was it compilation error??)) which makes I can't actually run the program, but at least I had a look at the structure and I think I get the point. So then after yesterday having been programming the whole day (got some help from a collegue though as I am completely new to programming in general) and after some kind of "relevation" this morning (I don't know why I thought of the solution I found, but it worked) I got a solution, which I am now very happy (and proud! ;-) ) to post here: In Eprime itself I made 3 slidestates (one with 9, another one with 16 and another one with 25 images). To each image a dummy image needs to be attributed - in my case I put a simple dummy.png which is simply a black square (my background is black too). Yep, it's a lot of work doing that all by hand, especially because you can't change settings for all images at once. In my DesignList I created different attributes ("Target" (filled with 1's and 0's), "Image" (empty), "CorrectResponse (filled with 1's and 2's) and "SlideState" filled with one of the possible slidestates for each condition. Then, in my Trial Procedure (the one that follows the DesignList), I created a script (before the slide) as follows: 'Eprime reads out for every line in the column "SlideState" which 'slidestate it needs to take. It replaces the strings in this column 'by z with a dIfferent number (in this case the number of items: ' 9, 16 or 25). If c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State09" Then z = 9 ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State16" Then z = 16 ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State25" Then z = 25 End If 'E-Prime reads out of the column "Target" if a target is present 'or not (in this case 0 indicates the absence of a target, 1 'indicates the presence of a target. After reading out, it transforms 'those values to an y-value. If c.getAttrib("Target") = 0 then y = 0 ElseIf c.getAttrib("Target") = 1 then y = 1 End If 'For the number 1 until z or 1 until (z-y) n case a target is present - 'which translates into 1 until 25 or 1 until (25-1) when a target is 'present - a sequence is created with numbers from 1 and 2. For i = 1 to z - y sequence(i) = Random(1,2) Next 'And after those random numbers have been generated, a target '(or not) is added. If y = 1 then sequence(z) = 0 End If 'This sequence is then randomized, but only for the array members '1 until z (take care to do this, because if not, you might possibly 'find 2 or more targets in your trial. randomizearray sequence, 1, z 'This is done as to get the output of the sequence written into the 'textfile as a string. You don't need to do this for the program to 'work. I just added this so afterwords I could know at which 'position exactly the target had been as well as the position 'of the different distractors. E-Prime just gives out a string 'for exp. 102122111 indicating that there was one target (0) 'on position two and distractors (1) and (2) on the other positions. s = str(sequence(1)) For i = 2 to z s = s + Str(sequence(i)) Next c.setAttrib "Image", s 'SlidePres here gets the information about which slidestate to 'refer to SlidePres.ActiveState = c.GetAttrib("SlideState") 'Images are generated Dim images (1 to z) As SlideImage For i = 1 to z dim num as string dim image_name as string num = Str(i) num = LTrim$(num) image_name = "Image" + num Set images(i) = CSlideImage(SlidePres.States(SlidePres.ActiveState).Objects(image_name)) Next 'And filled with the right image according to the sequence we 'generated above. Make sure to write two \\ in the path to the 'filename, as if not Eprime (or Visual Basic) interpretes it as 'some kind of operator. For i = 1 to z If sequence(i) = 0 then images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_square.png" ElseIf sequence(i) = 1 then images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_triangle.png" ElseIf sequence(i) = 2 then images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\blue_square.png" End If Next 'Images get loaded For i = 1 to z images(i).Load Next 'The slide is drawn SlidePres.Draw Voilà!!!! :-) I am really happy it works!!! :-) Thanks a lot for your help to all of you, I will for sure still try to get working some of the solutions you proposed (I am still convinced that E-Prime should work without programming - and for me, although I learend something and it now works, I still don't like the programming part) and especially your solutions David and Liwenna, because they seem to be good ones too. I also didn't abandon my "fix images project" (I had a programmer here generate 300 different pics for me) so I have a backup in case all this will finally not work like I imagined. :-) In the meanwhile, have a nice day and thanks again for all your help! Vera (very relieved) On Mar 12, 12:47 am, David McFarlane wrote: > Vera, > > Good.  I just needed better assurance that you had some experience > with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make > sense.  And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged > combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the > days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), > so if you get that to work then more power to you. > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > Susan mentioned.  I hope that program does not represent the quality > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > for what it needs to do.  It does indeed show a bit of using colon > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text.  Of > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. > > Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with > text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you > cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else > matters.  Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". > > So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of > discussion.  Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, > and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those > three spots.  And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use > file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do > *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!).  We start > with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with > three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead > to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): > > material/[Stim1].png > material/[Stim2].png > material/[Stim3].png > > Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes > (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a > colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this > may not line up well in your reader): > > Weight  Nested    Procedure  Stim1     Stim2     Stim3 >       1  StimList  TrialProc  [Stim:0]  [Stim:1]  [Stim:2] > > Almost done.  Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim > and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., > Stim > circle > square > > And we set StimList to Random order. > > So how does this all work?  E-Prime shuffles the StimList.  On each > round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then > those go right into the three locations in StimSlide.  See how simple > that is once you get it all sorted out?  And not a line of code!  You > just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. > > As I have presented it this should still work for picture files.  If > you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out > the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in > StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for > the special cases of images and sounds in Slides).  Also, you could > replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon > syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. > > Whew!  You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, > because I do have other work to do to.  So give this a whirl if you > like.  Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get > home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of > Expedition Robinson). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, > No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." > (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) > > At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: > > >Hi David, > > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later > >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot > >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including > >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon > >syntax...). :-) > > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too > >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- > >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one > >column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my > >list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, > >I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute > >[ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I > >created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem > >here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line > >at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up > >with 9 times the same image on the slide). > > >So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: > > >1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just > >write them into E-Prime. > >2. Write some kind of script > >3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). > > >The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the > >moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- > >time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution > >rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because > >after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate > >with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can > >control some driving task with the secondary task. > > >So I still need to find a solution!!! > > >:-) > > >On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked!  I think E-Prime can do what you > > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > > inline code.  As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax".  So if you do not > > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > > you:  Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > > and work through all of those.  That might give you enough ideas to > > > figure it out.  But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days).  If you do > > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this > > onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera > > >-- > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >Groups "E-Prime" group. > >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 12 13:53:17 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:53:17 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vera, Glad you got it to work, and thank you for a full presentation of your solution! But I feel I must provide an editorial reply to your own editorial comment. > I am still convinced that E-Prime should work without programming In this case one solution does not require any code, as I demonstrate above (unless I just do not fully understand your task). But more broadly, I just do not understand people who think that giving precise instructions to a machine with infinite possibilities (i.e., a Universal Turing Machine, look that up on Wikipedia) should "work without programming", any more than I would understand anyone who thinks that scientific publications should "work without science- speak". I have looked at many other experiment generating systems that "work without programming", and none of them, without programming, come close to the capabilities of what E-Prime can do because of its programming. In fact, my sole reason for endorsing E- Prime is precisely that it still includes a strong, conventional programming language. Please see my signature quote below. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'", http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 14:19:16 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:19:16 -0500 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <5a3a4f89-cedd-40bd-bc94-cc721fa9f6f2@q15g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then SaveAs... .jpg. if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > Hello, > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > to make sure they are there. > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best, > Jen > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 14:44:30 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:44:30 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51003110856n1dfdce5ayce4a2a7217e7fb98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: We actually don't use a joystick but a gamepad. This is, because they are much more ergonomic and RTs are more sensitive to variations in the conditions. We use the MS Sidewinder: http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/Microsoft-Sidewinder-Plug-a.jpg In E-Prime 2 there is an option of using joyticks (gamepads are recognized as josticks), in E-prime 1 there isn't, though. How can I mimic the buttons to be recognized as keyboard input? Cheers, Tobias On 11 Mrz., 17:56, ben robinson wrote: > dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the > joystick? > we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable):http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u... >  the > buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only > receive keyboard input... > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > > wrote: > > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's > > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc.. > > .) > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for > > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is > > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have > > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package > > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). > > > Cheers, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > Tobias, > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > > thread to my own FAQ file).  But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > > ).  (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > > >given... > > > > >Cheers, > > > >Tobias > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > attachment > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > system: > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 14:56:24 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:56:24 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <013424b1-262a-4865-8946-70182c387562@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: with the logitech controller we use now i simply download and install the driver from the logitech website ( http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/441/301&hub=1&cl=us,en?WT.z_sp=Image), this program then lets me assign values to each button on the controller. typically, i'll do something like make the left trigger buttons = '0' and the right trigger buttons = '1' and turn off all the other buttons so they do nothing. hopefully you can still find a similar driver for your gamepad from the microsoft website... http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=97d044f9-6f55-4804-9cf0-f97c5d5f891b On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Tobias wrote: > We actually don't use a joystick but a gamepad. This is, because they > are much more ergonomic and RTs are more sensitive to variations in > the conditions. > We use the MS Sidewinder: > http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/Microsoft-Sidewinder-Plug-a.jpg > > In E-Prime 2 there is an option of using joyticks (gamepads are > recognized as josticks), in E-prime 1 there isn't, though. How can I > mimic the buttons to be recognized as keyboard input? > > Cheers, > Tobias > > On 11 Mrz., 17:56, ben robinson wrote: > > dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the > > joystick? > > we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable): > http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u... > > < > http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u.. > .>the > > buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only > > receive keyboard input... > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > > > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > > > wrote: > > > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > > > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > > > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? > There's > > > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > > > > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc. > . > > > .) > > > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike > for > > > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime > users? Is > > > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can > have > > > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive > package > > > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > > > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows > 9). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mich > > > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > > Research Fellow > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > School of Psychology > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > > > Tobias, > > > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > > > thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > > > ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > > > >given... > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > >Tobias > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > > attachment > > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > > system: > > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with > the > > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK > legislation. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 15:17:51 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:17:51 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51003120656hf33ff2eo95d7370279c55765@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I can try that, thanks for the hint. Is there a way to colelct data with the "parallel" or "serial port" setting in E-Prime? It's a USB gamepad, though... On 12 Mrz., 15:56, ben robinson wrote: > with the logitech controller we use now i simply download and install the > driver from the logitech website (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/441/301&hub=1&cl=us,en?WT.z_sp=Image), > this program then lets me assign values to each button on the controller. >  typically, i'll do something like make the left trigger buttons = '0' and > the right trigger buttons = '1' and turn off all the other buttons so they > do nothing. > hopefully you can still find a similar driver for your gamepad from the > microsoft website...http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&Family... > > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Tobias wrote: > > We actually don't use a joystick but a gamepad. This is, because they > > are much more ergonomic and RTs are more sensitive to variations in > > the conditions. > > We use the MS Sidewinder: > >http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/Microsoft-Sidewinder-Plug-a... > > > In E-Prime 2 there is an option of using joyticks (gamepads are > > recognized as josticks), in E-prime 1 there isn't, though. How can I > > mimic the buttons to be recognized as keyboard input? > > > Cheers, > > Tobias > > > On 11 Mrz., 17:56, ben robinson wrote: > > > dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the > > > joystick? > > > we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable): > >http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u... > > >  < > >http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u.. > > .>the > > > buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only > > > receive keyboard input... > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > > > > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > > > > wrote: > > > > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > > > > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > > > > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? > > There's > > > > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > > > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc. > > . > > > > .) > > > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike > > for > > > > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime > > users? Is > > > > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can > > have > > > > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive > > package > > > > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > > > > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows > > 9). > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Mich > > > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > > > Research Fellow > > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > > School of Psychology > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > > > Tobias, > > > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > > > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > > > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > > > > thread to my own FAQ file).  But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > > > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > > > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > > > > ).  (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > > > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > > > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > > > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > > > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > > > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > > > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > > > > >given... > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Tobias > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > > > attachment > > > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > > > system: > > > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with > > the > > > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK > > legislation. > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 12 15:32:18 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:32:18 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <64a81d0d-8eed-4eb5-8223-7b67f93db57e@a18g2000yqc.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Tobias, >Is there a way to colelct data with the "parallel" or "serial port" >setting in E-Prime? Um, yes. *Much* has been written about that so just search around, no sense repeating all that here. >It's a USB gamepad, though... Um, then parallel & serial ports will do you no good here. You could of course use other button boxes that you may connect through parallel & serial ports, and once again much has been written about that already, so just do more searching. Finally, do not neglect the trained staff at PST Web Support, http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (though latest report indicates response times closer to 5 days). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Mar 12 15:22:57 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:22:57 -0000 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51003120619o57a19de8kc434b8b6b880998d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline at the beginning of the trial: Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " now" And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in the debug output. Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then SaveAs... .jpg. if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: Hello, I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just to make sure they are there. Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? Thanks in advance. Best, Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vera.donk at googlemail.com Fri Mar 12 16:16:05 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:16:05 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David, maybe I expressed myself wrongly here: I am still convinced that the thing I wanted to do should work without programming a single line (or at least, let's say that is what I expected). Of course I understand that if you want to do the REAL complicated stuff, E-Prime has its limits and one needs to program. I am just a little bit, let's call it "deceived" because I am convinced that my experimental setup is not very complicated in itself. This all said, I didn't try the solution you proposed yet and as it seems, things will function without programming, so maybe I just too quickly decided to program. But then at some point the "E-Prime solution" seems so far-fetched that programming appears the simpler and more elegant solution. Greetings, Vera PS: Like the signature. :-) On Mar 12, 2:53 pm, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Glad you got it to work, and thank you for a full presentation of your > solution!  But I feel I must provide an editorial reply to your own > editorial comment. > > > I am still convinced that E-Prime should work without programming > > In this case one solution does not require any code, as I demonstrate > above (unless I just do not fully understand your task).  But more > broadly, I just do not understand people who think that giving precise > instructions to a machine with infinite possibilities (i.e., a > Universal Turing Machine, look that up on Wikipedia) should "work > without programming",  any more than I would understand anyone who > thinks that scientific publications should "work without science- > speak".  I have looked at many other experiment generating systems > that "work without programming", and none of them, without > programming, come close to the capabilities of what E-Prime can do > because of its programming.  In fact, my sole reason for endorsing E- > Prime is precisely that it still includes a strong, conventional > programming language.  Please see my signature quote below. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our > native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for > making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious."  Edsger W. > Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'",http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html > . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From susangc7 at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 16:27:16 2010 From: susangc7 at gmail.com (Susan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:27:16 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <4b998110.5244f10a.3a98.21a7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David, Mea culpa. I apparently updated a test file instead of the final file eight years ago. Fixing that one is going to be a bit of a challenge, although I guess I can attempt to track down a copy of EP 1 (or edit the text version of the es file) to fix the typo that causes that runtime error and email it to Brian. I'd do it now, but all I have is 2.0 Pro. As a note, it would be lovely if people who noticed problems like that with the STEP scripts would try to fix them and send the new versions in; that grant ran out in 2003 or thereabouts, so anything that's still there or is updated is done because Brian and his lab are trying to be helpful. The structure of the visual attention file is complex, but it solved the problem at the time, which was the blocking of number of cued items and SOA with factorial variation within the trials of lure position and noise compatibility (and randomized distractors using colon notation, which was the part I thought might be analogous). That's not the problem here, and I apologize for suggesting something needlessly complex. My own orientation is toward examples rather than explanations, so I thought the additional information might prove helpful. Wouldn't it be nice if E-Prime had non-script comments? That might have made all of the scripts better teaching tools for people learning E-Prime, rather than just for people trying to teach experimental psych with E-Prime. (Vera, sorry to hijack your thread -- I'm glad you got it to work.) Thanks, Susan PhD Student University of Maryland Psychology (who no longer uses E-Prime very much at all) On Mar 11, 6:47 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Vera, > > Good.  I just needed better assurance that you had some experience > with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make > sense.  And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged > combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the > days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), > so if you get that to work then more power to you. > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > Susan mentioned.  I hope that program does not represent the quality > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > for what it needs to do.  It does indeed show a bit of using colon > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text.  Of > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. > > Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with > text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you > cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else > matters.  Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". > > So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of > discussion.  Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, > and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those > three spots.  And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use > file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do > *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!).  We start > with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with > three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead > to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): > > material/[Stim1].png > material/[Stim2].png > material/[Stim3].png > > Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes > (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a > colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this > may not line up well in your reader): > > Weight  Nested    Procedure  Stim1     Stim2     Stim3 >       1  StimList  TrialProc  [Stim:0]  [Stim:1]  [Stim:2] > > Almost done.  Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim > and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., > Stim > circle > square > > And we set StimList to Random order. > > So how does this all work?  E-Prime shuffles the StimList.  On each > round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then > those go right into the three locations in StimSlide.  See how simple > that is once you get it all sorted out?  And not a line of code!  You > just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. > > As I have presented it this should still work for picture files.  If > you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out > the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in > StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for > the special cases of images and sounds in Slides).  Also, you could > replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon > syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. > > Whew!  You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, > because I do have other work to do to.  So give this a whirl if you > like.  Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get > home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of > Expedition Robinson). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, > No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." > (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) > > At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: > > >Hi David, > > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later > >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot > >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including > >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon > >syntax...). :-) > > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too > >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- > >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one > >column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my > >list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, > >I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute > >[ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I > >created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem > >here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line > >at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up > >with 9 times the same image on the slide). > > >So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: > > >1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just > >write them into E-Prime. > >2. Write some kind of script > >3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). > > >The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the > >moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- > >time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution > >rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because > >after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate > >with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can > >control some driving task with the secondary task. > > >So I still need to find a solution!!! > > >:-) > > >On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked!  I think E-Prime can do what you > > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > > inline code.  As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax".  So if you do not > > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > > you:  Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > > and work through all of those.  That might give you enough ideas to > > > figure it out.  But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days).  If you do > > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this > > onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera > > >-- > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >Groups "E-Prime" group. > >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 12 20:38:13 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:38:13 -0500 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <388cd876-eaa5-42ba-b94b-4bab9fb32984@t23g2000yqt.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Susan, You need merely change [CueSize] to [F_CueSize] on BlockHeader and the program works. I will make that trivial change with EP1.2 and send that to you separately, perhaps you can then forward it on. Thanks for the explanation of the added complexities that that program was meant to address. As for "non-script" comments, my own recent brainstorm is to insert inline code in some places for the sole purpose of adding comments to explain the program. E.g., at the start of each SessionProc I now regularly put an inline code object called "ReadMe" where I write a brief description of the program as a whole, add any needed implentation notes, date, author, and version notes, and a running list of dates & version changes. I find this solves a lot of problems for me, (which is why this is standard practice in any conventional programming environment). I am ashamed however that it took me almost a decade of using E-Prime to come upon this simple workaround. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) At 3/12/2010 11:27 AM Friday, you wrote: >David, > >Mea culpa. I apparently updated a test file instead of the final file >eight years ago. Fixing that one is going to be a bit of a challenge, >although I guess I can attempt to track down a copy of EP 1 (or edit >the text version of the es file) to fix the typo that causes that >runtime error and email it to Brian. I'd do it now, but all I have >is 2.0 Pro. As a note, it would be lovely if people who noticed >problems like that with the STEP scripts would try to fix them and >send the new versions in; that grant ran out in 2003 or thereabouts, >so anything that's still there or is updated is done because Brian and >his lab are trying to be helpful. > >The structure of the visual attention file is complex, but it solved >the problem at the time, which was the blocking of number of cued >items and SOA with factorial variation within the trials of lure >position and noise compatibility (and randomized distractors using >colon notation, which was the part I thought might be analogous). >That's not the problem here, and I apologize for suggesting something >needlessly complex. My own orientation is toward examples rather than >explanations, so I thought the additional information might prove >helpful. > >Wouldn't it be nice if E-Prime had non-script comments? That might >have made all of the scripts better teaching tools for people learning >E-Prime, rather than just for people trying to teach experimental >psych with E-Prime. > >(Vera, sorry to hijack your thread -- I'm glad you got it to work.) > >Thanks, >Susan >PhD Student >University of Maryland Psychology >(who no longer uses E-Prime very much at all) > >On Mar 11, 6:47 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > > Susan mentioned. I hope that program does not represent the quality > > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > > for what it needs to do. It does indeed show a bit of using colon > > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text. Of > > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Sun Mar 14 14:44:38 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:44:38 -0700 Subject: Feedback for anticipation Message-ID: Hi again! :-) Another question: is there some way to give feedback for "anticipated" responses? Let's say the participant gets to see a fixation cross and then some images. By an effect of anticipation, it could be that he/she already pushes a button before even seeing the actual stimulus. I was wondering if there was some way to have a wav.file saying "too early". I fiddled something together with my fixation cross being followed by a feedback screen (I repeat the fixation cross at the feedback screen in a text box) but it just doesn't work out right. :( E-Prime does indeed give out the "too early" wav.file when a button is pushed when the fixation cross is still there, but then I have two other problems: 1. Of course it doesn't detect if a button is pushed WHILE the feedback screen in shown (thus not giving any feedback). 2. On my feedback screen, I actually don't see the fixation cross (I only hear the sound-feedback). Am I giving myself a too hard time here, or did I just oversee some function in E-Prime? Is there something like "anticipation feedback"? Thanks to anybody who can give me a clue! :-) Greetings, Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 15 11:48:45 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:48:45 -0000 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Vera, Programming languages seldom care about the psychology of anticipation, but what you want seems quite easily achieved, either with or without inline. So, we have a fixation, say, a textdisplay with a little plus (my preferred crosshair), some images, then the rest of the task? Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: Fixation-->if response jump label1 Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 Procedure: Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial Or something, anyway. At some point, one can make things much more difficult without coding than with, and at that point, it's time to do some script. Fixation-->Inline1-->Stimuli-->Label1-->EndOfTrial With Inline1 being a little inline saying SoundWarning.Play 'SoundWarning being either a sounddevice thingy you have in unreferenced objects, or a buffer which you coded (easily found in ebasic help) Goto Label1 Third, [A psychological consideration] You might want to consider just filtering out the responses. I know how tempting it is to do all these kinds of things, but consider: A) it takes longer to programme; B) your subjects might get confused with all that feedback; C) you might affect RT distributions adversely by forcing subjects to perform overly fast or slow. If you find subjects performing too fast, you might want to consider underlining that they need to perform more accurately (say, every 10 trials). Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vera Sent: 14 March 2010 14:45 To: E-Prime Subject: Feedback for anticipation Hi again! :-) Another question: is there some way to give feedback for "anticipated" responses? Let's say the participant gets to see a fixation cross and then some images. By an effect of anticipation, it could be that he/she already pushes a button before even seeing the actual stimulus. I was wondering if there was some way to have a wav.file saying "too early". I fiddled something together with my fixation cross being followed by a feedback screen (I repeat the fixation cross at the feedback screen in a text box) but it just doesn't work out right. :( E-Prime does indeed give out the "too early" wav.file when a button is pushed when the fixation cross is still there, but then I have two other problems: 1. Of course it doesn't detect if a button is pushed WHILE the feedback screen in shown (thus not giving any feedback). 2. On my feedback screen, I actually don't see the fixation cross (I only hear the sound-feedback). Am I giving myself a too hard time here, or did I just oversee some function in E-Prime? Is there something like "anticipation feedback"? Thanks to anybody who can give me a clue! :-) Greetings, Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 11:48:57 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:48:57 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response Message-ID: hi there i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew can anyone help me with this? thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:43:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:43:25 -0400 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02F3E8A4@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mich, >Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of >nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: > >Fixation-->if response jump label1 >Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 >Procedure: >Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial Funny you should mention using multiple overlapping Jump Labels, since I just looked into this myself a few weeks ago. Did you ever get that to work yourself? How? I found it completely impossible for the following reasons: 1) Any one E-Studio object has only one Jump Label that applies to all its End Action = Jump input masks; i.e., E-Studio has no mechanism for allowing multiple Jump Labels from any one object. 2) To circumvent that, I used two objects with overlapping extended input Time Limits, giving a different Jump Label to the input mask for each object. In this case, any input that I gave that had End Action = Jump jumped to the Jump Label from the second object, never to the Jump Label from the first object. 3) If you look into the code generated by E-Prime, you will see why this must be so. First, you will see that every Label object produces the following code: If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then ... Second, you will see a line like On Error Goto MyJumpLabel back up by where your input mask gets reset (and note further that MyJumpLabel never appears in the input mask definition itself). From that you will see that E-Prime implements Jump Labels merely by some clever hijacking of the error handling facility built into Visual Basic. And since Visual Basic (and thus E-Basic) can have only one error handler in effect at any time, E-Prime can have only one Jump Label in effect at any time. Just trying to keep the record straight. Of course, you will not find anthing about this in the documentation from PST. And as usual, do not take even my word for any of this, you have to try it out for yourself. Best regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:49:40 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:49:40 -0400 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: <4b9e71c4.5244f10a.33b9.5b0fSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Mich, Oops, my apology, you stand vindicated. My examination and comments about multiple overlapping Jump Labels still stands, but taking a further look at your post I see that you never advocated such a thing, you clearly exhibit using different Jump Labels over different Time Limit periods, and that should work as you describe. Best regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/15/2010 01:43 PM Monday, you wrote: >Mich, > >>Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of >>nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: >> >>Fixation-->if response jump label1 >>Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 >>Procedure: >>Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial > >Funny you should mention using multiple overlapping Jump Labels, >since I just looked into this myself a few weeks ago. Did you ever >get that to work yourself? How? I found it completely impossible >for the following reasons: > >1) Any one E-Studio object has only one Jump Label that applies to >all its End Action = Jump input masks; i.e., E-Studio has no >mechanism for allowing multiple Jump Labels from any one object. > >2) To circumvent that, I used two objects with overlapping extended >input Time Limits, giving a different Jump Label to the input mask >for each object. In this case, any input that I gave that had End >Action = Jump jumped to the Jump Label from the second object, never >to the Jump Label from the first object. > >3) If you look into the code generated by E-Prime, you will see why >this must be so. First, you will see that every Label object >produces the following code: If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then >... Second, you will see a line like On Error Goto MyJumpLabel back >up by where your input mask gets reset (and note further that >MyJumpLabel never appears in the input mask definition >itself). From that you will see that E-Prime implements Jump Labels >merely by some clever hijacking of the error handling facility built >into Visual Basic. And since Visual Basic (and thus E-Basic) can >have only one error handler in effect at any time, E-Prime can have >only one Jump Label in effect at any time. > > >Just trying to keep the record straight. Of course, you will not >find anthing about this in the documentation from PST. And as >usual, do not take even my word for any of this, you have to try it >out for yourself. > >Best regards, >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Tue Mar 16 21:19:03 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:19:03 -0700 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: <4b9e733a.5844f10a.574f.5062SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello Michiel and David, actually the message you wrote Michiel, made me think a bit and after a long long long discussion today with my professor we decided not to use any anticipation feedback (well that doesn't mean that I had been trying your solution a bit, not with too much success though, but then I had started thinking about your psychological consideration and was probably less motivated than I was before). So thanks for the feedback anyway! I hope it will be of help to somebody in the future! :-) Cheers, Vera On Mar 15, 6:49 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Mich, > > Oops, my apology, you stand vindicated.  My examination and comments > about multiple overlapping Jump Labels still stands, but taking a > further look at your post I see that you never advocated such a > thing, you clearly exhibit using different Jump Labels over different > Time Limit periods, and that should work as you describe. > > Best regards, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 3/15/2010 01:43 PM Monday, you wrote: > > >Mich, > > >>Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of > >>nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: > > >>Fixation-->if response jump label1 > >>Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 > >>Procedure: > >>Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial > > >Funny you should mention using multiple overlapping Jump Labels, > >since I just looked into this myself a few weeks ago.  Did you ever > >get that to work yourself?  How?  I found it completely impossible > >for the following reasons: > > >1) Any one E-Studio object has only one Jump Label that applies to > >all its End Action = Jump input masks; i.e., E-Studio has no > >mechanism for allowing multiple Jump Labels from any one object. > > >2) To circumvent that, I used two objects with overlapping extended > >input Time Limits, giving a different Jump Label to the input mask > >for each object.  In this case, any input that I gave that had End > >Action = Jump jumped to the Jump Label from the second object, never > >to the Jump Label from the first object. > > >3) If you look into the code generated by E-Prime, you will see why > >this must be so.  First, you will see that every Label object > >produces the following code:  If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then > >...  Second, you will see a line like On Error Goto MyJumpLabel back > >up by where your input mask gets reset (and note further that > >MyJumpLabel never appears in the input mask definition > >itself).  From that you will see that E-Prime implements Jump Labels > >merely by some clever hijacking of the error handling facility built > >into Visual Basic.  And since Visual Basic (and thus E-Basic) can > >have only one error handler in effect at any time, E-Prime can have > >only one Jump Label in effect at any time. > > >Just trying to keep the record straight.  Of course, you will not > >find anthing about this in the documentation from PST.  And as > >usual, do not take even my word for any of this, you have to try it > >out for yourself. > > >Best regards, > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 13:59:13 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:59:13 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <5ed82529-1dc1-414e-88b8-9c07179c4437@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Welcome back Yoed. So you still didn't solve this, hey? I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong where exactly. Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above steps or not. Best, liw On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > hi there > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > can anyone help me with this? > thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 14:11:47 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:11:47 -0700 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02EB29B2@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Ha Jen, Any luck with the pictures yet?? For what it's worth... image files created or modified on a mac are known to sometimes (and definitely not always) give problems of the 2000 kind... (see for instance this, rather messy, topic: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/a72bcd05a221c7dc/6827f84673878d96) Any chance your files have been macified? Best, liw On Mar 12, 4:22 pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > > If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline at the beginning of the trial: > > Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " now" > > And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in the debug output. > > Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson > Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" > > if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then SaveAs... .jpg. > > if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > > Hello, > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > to make sure they are there. > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best, > Jen > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From kellerj at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 15:38:40 2010 From: kellerj at gmail.com (jen) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:38:40 -0500 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <6dadb351-5fba-48db-ae60-15d486f9854c@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: hello, thanks so much for your reply. i was out of town for a week, so i forwarded the replies i received to my colleague. i'm not sure of the current status. i was definitely using a mac, however, to edit the images so it is quite possible that they have been 'macified.' thanks to everyone for their help. best, jen On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, liwenna wrote: > Ha Jen, > > Any luck with the pictures yet?? > > For what it's worth... image files created or modified on a mac are > known to sometimes (and definitely not always) give problems of the > 2000 kind... (see for instance this, rather messy, topic: > > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/a72bcd05a221c7dc/6827f84673878d96 > ) > > Any chance your files have been macified? > > Best, > > liw > > On Mar 12, 4:22 pm, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be > almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme > references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, > just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. > Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline > at the beginning of the trial: > > > > Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " > now" > > > > And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added > " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find > "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in > the debug output. > > > > Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the > extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to > explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do > yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! > It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > > Research Fellow > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > School of Psychology > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of ben robinson > > Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" > > > > if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just > double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format > masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then > SaveAs... .jpg. > > > > if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and > SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > > to make sure they are there. > > > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best, > > Jen > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com e-prime%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com> > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 16:19:17 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:19:17 -0700 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Welcome back in town ! ;) The mac thing is likely it then. Opening and 'saving as' with for instance gimp on a pc did the trick for my files back then. On Mar 17, 4:38 pm, jen wrote: > hello, > > thanks so much for your reply. i was out of town for a week, so i forwarded > the replies i received to my colleague. i'm not sure of the current > status. i was definitely using a mac, however, to edit the images so it is > quite possible that they have been 'macified.' > > thanks to everyone for their help. > > best, > jen > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, liwenna wrote: > > Ha Jen, > > > Any luck with the pictures yet?? > > > For what it's worth... image files created or modified on a mac are > > known to sometimes (and definitely not always) give problems of the > > 2000 kind... (see for instance this, rather messy, topic: > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/a72bcd05a... > > ) > > > Any chance your files have been macified? > > > Best, > > > liw > > > On Mar 12, 4:22 pm, Michiel Spape > > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be > > almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme > > references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, > > just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. > > Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline > > at the beginning of the trial: > > > > Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " > > now" > > > > And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added > > " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find > > "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in > > the debug output. > > > > Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the > > extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to > > explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do > > yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! > > It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > > Research Fellow > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > School of Psychology > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > Behalf Of ben robinson > > > Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" > > > > if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just > > double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format > > masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then > > SaveAs... .jpg. > > > > if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and > > SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > > > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > > > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > > > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > > > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > > > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > > > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > > > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > > > to make sure they are there. > > > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best, > > > Jen > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > e-prime%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com> > > . > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > attachment > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > system: > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From blankman77 at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 19:13:43 2010 From: blankman77 at gmail.com (blankman77 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:13:43 -0700 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: <5827D491-F127-42C6-9625-058AFEA570AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Andrew, I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 floating around? Please let me know if you find a solution to this problem and I will do that same. -also Andrew On Jan 21, 2:45 pm, andrew hill wrote: > hi folks, > > has anyone experienced this?  previously working eprime scripts are now failing due to display refresh problems, when running in WinXP / Parallels on a Macbook Pro. (error -999 pointing at script line that checks for valid refresh rates).  these scripts still work on "regular" windows machines. > > this is true for any script, including the PST-provided samples..  i've tried to set the script to inherit display resolution, or manually set the resolution, but it doesn't work.. the script gets as far as collecting subject # / session #, but then fails.. > > i remember having this problem once before on an iMac, and i believe i fixed it somehow, but i cannot for the life of me figure out how to, now. > > anyone have any suggestions or ideas, either in how to adjust the Parallels settings or to disable the refresh rate check and get around this issue? > > thanks, > andrew -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 17 23:20:12 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:20:12 -0400 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: blankman77 at gmail.com wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, > I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why > this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup > for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this > occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 > floating around? This is exactly why we disable the autoupdate on every E-Prime installation, we do not like surprises. Instead we manually download the update files directly from PST and then carefully deploy them, on our own schedule. It is also why I keep a collection of installation files for every version of E-Prime that we have ever installed, saved in multiple locations, so that we can always roll back to any previously working version. You might want to adopt the same practice. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 02:33:21 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:33:21 -0700 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem Message-ID: Hello everyone! I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. Problem is: 90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive presentations are not allowed. I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. Thanks in advance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ekoren2 at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 11:38:27 2010 From: ekoren2 at gmail.com (Eli Koren) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:38:27 +0200 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer Message-ID: Hi There! I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left so i wrote this script: if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then stim1.Cresp ="x" elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then stim1.Cresp ="z" end if end if It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this script? Thanks ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 12:14:54 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 05:14:54 -0700 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Eli, If I remember correctly I never got such a direct way of manipulating the CRESP funtion to work either. I guess it has something to do with slide.cresp being a function (?) of the slideobject and not an attribute in a list for instance (I'm not good at the official coding language ;) ) I use a detour way now, that I've described in this post: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/msg/ad18d7e4f85bce84 I think it will help you out :) Best, liw On Mar 18, 12:38 pm, Eli Koren wrote: > Hi There! > > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left > so i wrote this script: > > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then > stim1.Cresp ="x" > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then > stim1.Cresp ="z" > end if > end if > > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this > script? > > Thanks > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 13:09:14 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:09:14 -0700 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eli, If you want to manipulate the correct response by changing .CRESP in code, then you have to do that *before* your input mask runs, not after. Once an input mask gets a response it scores that response using the latest value of .CRESP, so changing .CRESP after the fact does no good. So, either change .CRESP before your input mask runs, or, as liw suggested, use code after the response to score the response directly, i.e., make your change directly to .ACC (based directly on, e.g., handedness and .RESP) instead of to .CRESP. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Mar 18, 7:38 am, Eli Koren wrote: > Hi There! > > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left > so i wrote this script: > > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then > stim1.Cresp ="x" > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then > stim1.Cresp ="z" > end if > end if > > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this > script? > > Thanks > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Mar 18 13:49:33 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:49:33 -0000 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem In-Reply-To: <039960f2-1287-4833-9536-96d3e704a842@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, What's so stupid about the question? Okay, I get that the problem is quite easily explained, but once you'd be able to exactly state how one would do something about it to solve it, just with words, it's a breeze to solve in programming. In a way, finding it really simple (but not knowing how), is similar to what most of us deal with in daily life once we're trying to really explain what we're working on in psychology: 'I'm trying to understand how people segregate objects from the background'... reply: 'what's so difficult about that?'... 'so you tell me how a brain can do this?' ... 'well, you just *DO* it, see? Simple!' Anyway, never mind the rant (bit sick, feel like ranting), here's a stupid way to solve your problem: Dim myTrials(90) as integer Dim I as integer Dim thistry as integer For I = 1 to 90 myTrials(I) = I mod 10 Next I TryAgain: 'this is the syntax for a label RandomizeArray myTrials 'randomising the array Thistry = thistry + 1 Debug.print "Try " & cstr(Thistry) 'so that we can see how often it randomised it For I = 1 to 89 If myTrials(I) = myTrials(I+1) then goto TryAgain 'very ugly programming, but should work. Next I ...Something like that. Basically, we keep on randomising until no subsequent number is the same as the current. Then have a trialcountervariable that is updated every trial and dosomething like c.SetAttrib "myFavouriteAttribute", myTrials(trialcountervariable). Can't check if my syntax is correct now though (failed install of the net station package files, and now e-prime doesn't work anymore). Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo Sent: 18 March 2010 02:33 To: E-Prime Subject: the most stupid randomization problem Hello everyone! I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. Problem is: 90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive presentations are not allowed. I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. Thanks in advance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Mar 18 13:56:27 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:56:27 -0000 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, 1. I assume your CorrectAnswer is an attribute, yes? Why don't you just change that then? That way, logging will also be more consistent... 2. No need for { }: (unless you use {SPACE} or something) If c.GetAttrib ("Handedness") <> "left" then If stim1.CResp = "/" then stim1.Cresp = "x" 'plethora of other ways of writing this, I just like this one best If stim1.Cresp = "." Then stim1.Cresp = "." End if Or even, assuming it's a 2 response force choice task: If c.GetAttrib ("Handedness") <> "left" then If c.GetAttrib("CorrectAnswer") = "/" then c.SetAttrib "CorrectAnswer", "x" else c.SetAttrib "CorrectAnswer, "." End if Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eli Koren Sent: 18 March 2010 11:38 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: changing CorrectAnswer Hi There! I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left so i wrote this script: if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then stim1.Cresp ="x" elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then stim1.Cresp ="z" end if end if It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this script? Thanks ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 14:56:53 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:56:53 -0400 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem In-Reply-To: <039960f2-1287-4833-9536-96d3e704a842@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hmm, interesting puzzle, not your typical "randomize without consecutive repeats" problem. First let's make sure that I have it right. Your stimuli consist of single digits from 0 to 9, and you want to present these in a somewhat random trial sequence such that each stimulus follows every other stimulus (except itself) exactly once. Do I have that right so far? If so, then I believe you will need 91 trials to do this, and the final trial will always be the same as the first. Also, although PST's bogosort- (look that up on Wikipedia) style algorithm in their NoRepeat.es example may work in simple cases, it would almost certainly fail to produce a solution in any reasonable time for your criteria. And you would still need to write the code to filter for your criteria (which are more complicated than merely no consecutive repeats), which would present another tough challenge. The method I present here may be no easier to program, but at least it does provide a full solution that will run in a deterministic time frame. Now, I like to think of these puzzles in terms of how I would do them manually with decks of cards or with pencil and paper. I also like to reduce them to a simpler example and then scale up later. So let's look at how we might arrange a sequence of simply 1, 2, and 3 following your criteria. I might start by writing a list of all trial (or stimulus) transitions that meet our criteria, and then shuffle that list. Note that for 1 2 3 we have six such possible transitional pairs, and here is one such list for the sake of discussion (note there are 6! = 720 possible such shuffled lists for 1 2 3): 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 3 3 1 3 2 Now, I start with the first pair, 1 2, and cross that off the list. I then look for the next unused pair that begins with 2, which in this case is 2 1. So I append the 1 to our full trial sequence (bringing it to 1 2 1) and cross that pair off the list. Then I look for the next unused pair that begins with 1 (cycling through to the top of the list if necessary), and that brings us to 1 3. So we append 3 to our full sequence. Next we come to 3 1, and append 1 to our sequence. Next we come to ... oh oh! No more unused pairs that start with 1 to pick up, and we still have 2 3 and 3 2 left over. Well then, we just move down to 3 2 instead, and append 2 to our sequence. Next we get to 2 3, and finally to 3 1, and that brings our full sequence to (drum roll, please), 1 2 1 3 2 3 1. Please check my work now and make sure that I got it right. And note that our sequence consists of (nStim * (nStim-1) + 1) = 7 trials, and starts and ends with 1. Then try this with some examples of your own and see how it works. Now you merely have to implement that in E-Prime code, and I leave that as a programming exercise. If it were me I might well first work this out in Excel with a combination of Excel functions and custom Excel VBA macros, starting with the simplest example as above and then scaling up to my full stimulus set. Once I got it all working in Excel I would then port it over to E-Prime. Now here is another way to see the same algorithm, and in a way that may make it more programmable. This time, for each stimulus we make a separate list of what stimuli may follow it, and shuffle each list separately. For stimuli 1 2 3 we get three lists, e.g., 1 2 3 - - - 2 1 2 3 3 1 This time, we start by picking one list at random, say, 2. So we start our full trial sequence with 2, and take the next unused item in list 2, i.e., 1. Append that to our sequence (now 2 1), then take the next unused item from list 1 to append to our sequence (2 1 2). Back to list 2, next unused item is 3, take that (2 1 2 3). Over to list 3, next unused item is 2 (2 1 2 3 2). Oops! No more items in list 2. So return that 2 to list 3 and instead take the next item, 1 (2 1 2 3 1). Over to list 1, next unused item is 3 (2 1 2 3 1 3). On to list 3, pick up that remaining 1, and we are done: 2 1 2 3 1 3 1. Voila! Once again, I now leave this algorithm as an E-Prime programming exercise. Note that this algorithm may be generalized to handle a wide variety of randomization with constraint problems. Finally, astute readers will notice that I have here presented a scaled-down version of the beautiful algorithm published in Remillard, G., & Clark, J. M. (1999) "Generating fixed-length sequences statisfying any given nth-order transition probability matrix", Beh Res Meth, Instr, & Computers 31: 235-243 (and refined more recently in Remillard, G. (2008) "A program for generating randomized simple and context-sensitive sequences", Beh Res Meth 40 (2): 484-492). I highly advise all to look at those fine papers. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'", http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html . leylo wrote: > I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post > this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would > really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I > have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. > > Problem is: 90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that > every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive > presentations are not allowed. > > I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get > the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so > great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if > someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. > > Thanks in advance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 17:34:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:34:54 -0400 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eli, With all that said, how about if we think outside the frame of your question as posed and see how to do this with no code at all? Here's how: In your TrialList, add two columns called CorrectLeft and CorrectRight. Fill these in with the correct assignments for left & right. Now, in the Correct property of your Stim1 object, enter the following exactly: [Correct[Handedness]] Note the use of nested brackets. Now on each trial, using the inner brackets Stim1 will construct an attribute reference from Correct[Handedness], either Correctleft or Correctright (note that E-Prime ignores case here). Then it will use that value in the outer brackets to get the correct value from the desired column. Isn't that slick? I tested this and it really does work for me. Who would have thought that E-Prime allows nested attribute references using the bracket notation? Nice feature, now that we know, so thanks for the question! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Eli, > >If you want to manipulate the correct response by changing .CRESP in >code, then you have to do that *before* your input mask runs, not >after. Once an input mask gets a response it scores that response >using the latest value of .CRESP, so changing .CRESP after the fact >does no good. > >So, either change .CRESP before your input mask runs, or, as liw >suggested, use code after the response to score the response directly, >i.e., make your change directly to .ACC (based directly on, e.g., >handedness and .RESP) instead of to .CRESP. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >On Mar 18, 7:38 am, Eli Koren wrote: > > Hi There! > > > > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left > > so i wrote this script: > > > > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then > > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then > > stim1.Cresp ="x" > > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then > > stim1.Cresp ="z" > > end if > > end if > > > > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this > > script? > > > > Thanks > > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From blankman77 at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 18:34:59 2010 From: blankman77 at gmail.com (blankman77 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:34:59 -0700 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: <4BA163AC.2040406@msu.edu> Message-ID: Yeah. I was able to roll back my version of eprime 2.0 using the original disk. So far, this has allowed me to run programs again. I definitely suggest you try this, other Andrew. On Mar 17, 6:20 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > blankma... at gmail.com wrote: > > Hi Andrew, > > > I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, > > I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why > > this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup > > for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this > > occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 > > floating around? > > This is exactly why we disable the autoupdate on every E-Prime > installation, we do not like surprises.  Instead we manually download > the update files directly from PST and then carefully deploy them, on > our own schedule.  It is also why I keep a collection of installation > files for every version of E-Prime that we have ever installed, saved in > multiple locations, so that we can always roll back to any previously > working version.  You might want to adopt the same practice. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From neurodrum at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 20:34:24 2010 From: neurodrum at gmail.com (andrew hill) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:34:24 -0700 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: <43da2efe-066b-4ce9-a849-6cb72f2f1f9b@r1g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: thanks - this was after an update, or rather a re-install on a new machine.. what version did you find works? i'll try to find that installer. thanks, andrew On Mar 18, 2010, at 11:34 AM, blankman77 at gmail.com wrote: > Yeah. I was able to roll back my version of eprime 2.0 using the > original disk. So far, this has allowed me to run programs again. I > definitely suggest you try this, other Andrew. > > On Mar 17, 6:20 pm, David McFarlane wrote: >> blankma... at gmail.com wrote: >>> Hi Andrew, >> >>> I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, >>> I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why >>> this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup >>> for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this >>> occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 >>> floating around? >> >> This is exactly why we disable the autoupdate on every E-Prime >> installation, we do not like surprises. Instead we manually download >> the update files directly from PST and then carefully deploy them, on >> our own schedule. It is also why I keep a collection of installation >> files for every version of E-Prime that we have ever installed, saved in >> multiple locations, so that we can always roll back to any previously >> working version. You might want to adopt the same practice. >> >> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 20:48:45 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:48:45 -0400 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: <4ba26447.5944f10a.25eb.0ed1SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Oh, and if you find the nested bracket notation just too disturbing, then you can always revert to a more ordinary E-Prime way of doing things. In this case, in your TrialList make *three* columns, named CorrectLeft, CorrectRight, and just Correct. Fill in CorrectLeft and CorrectRight as before, and in Correct just put "Correct[Handedness]" (without the quotes). Now in the Correct property of Stim1, just put "[Correct]". Now everything will work pretty much as described earlier, but in a way that may not freak out folks quite as much as the nested brackets. In fact, I came up with this way first on the way to figuring out the full nested bracket approach. It's all up to you. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Eli, > >With all that said, how about if we think outside the frame of your >question as posed and see how to do this with no code at all? Here's how: > >In your TrialList, add two columns called CorrectLeft and >CorrectRight. Fill these in with the correct assignments for left & >right. Now, in the Correct property of your Stim1 object, enter the >following exactly: >[Correct[Handedness]] > >Note the use of nested brackets. Now on each trial, using the inner >brackets Stim1 will construct an attribute reference from >Correct[Handedness], either Correctleft or Correctright (note that >E-Prime ignores case here). Then it will use that value in the >outer brackets to get the correct value from the desired column. > >Isn't that slick? I tested this and it really does work for >me. Who would have thought that E-Prime allows nested attribute >references using the bracket notation? Nice feature, now that we >know, so thanks for the question! > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >>Eli, >> >>If you want to manipulate the correct response by changing .CRESP in >>code, then you have to do that *before* your input mask runs, not >>after. Once an input mask gets a response it scores that response >>using the latest value of .CRESP, so changing .CRESP after the fact >>does no good. >> >>So, either change .CRESP before your input mask runs, or, as liw >>suggested, use code after the response to score the response directly, >>i.e., make your change directly to .ACC (based directly on, e.g., >>handedness and .RESP) instead of to .CRESP. >> >>-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >>On Mar 18, 7:38 am, Eli Koren wrote: >> > Hi There! >> > >> > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left >> > so i wrote this script: >> > >> > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then >> > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then >> > stim1.Cresp ="x" >> > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then >> > stim1.Cresp ="z" >> > end if >> > end if >> > >> > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this >> > script? >> > >> > Thanks >> > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hyungwook.yim at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 21:01:54 2010 From: hyungwook.yim at gmail.com (HW) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:01:54 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? Message-ID: I am doing memory experiments for child (memorizing two paired list) and I have good distractor tasks that should go after each list, before the test. something like: --------------------------- [list 1] -> [distractor task] -> [list 2] -> [distractor task] -> [test] cat-dog apple - orange big-small cup-mug ..... .... -------------------------------- However, I can't find out how to embed the flash game in EPrime... Is it possible? (1) I've tried to stop Eprime for a while by pressing "Control + ESC" but this would make Eprime stop~! (2) I've tried to make two experiment programs each for list1 and list2, so that I could use the flash game independently. But then I can't randomize the words as a whole - I need to randomly pull out the word for each list from the same pool. (3) related to #(2) is there a way to save the results that eprime computed and use it in another experiment? - I was thinking of making the first program(program 1) generate two random list of words from a pool and use half of it in the current experiment, save the other half in a file. Then the second program reads the file and uses the list of words that program1 had already generated~! Is this possible? I hope somebody could give some advice~! :) or... I should I just have to forget randomizing things perfectly... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 00:32:32 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:32:32 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment Message-ID: Hello dear members, Thanks for this group, here I have find a lot of stuff and want to thanks also Michiel Spape for his very nice PDF on Eprime... I finally write this message because I give up... it's nearly 01:00 and now I'm looking for help because I feel blind... I'm putting together an experiment about "mere exposure paradigm"/ Zajonc stuff... In a first part, I just want to expose 8 stimuli with 4 different exposure frequency (1/3/6/9)... I want to randomize both the order of presentation and the different exposure frequency... It's a intrasubject experiment and the most important is to random the assignment of stimuli to exposure frequency conditions. I'm trying to do this through nested lists, and have successfully randomized the order of stimuli, but am stumped on how to randomize stimuli to the different frequency exposure. It seems like it shouldn't be that hard, and maybe I'm just being dense, but I can't figure it out. Anyone have any ideas? I try something with the nested list but can't figure how I can do to random the frequency. In the second part, I would like to expose each 8 stimuli one by one to measure the attitude toward it so I need to know for each subject wich stimuli have been randomized on frequency. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 09:02:08 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:02:08 -0700 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem In-Reply-To: <4BA23F35.4050704@msu.edu> Message-ID: You are so kind, I really can't thank you enough for your advice and replies. You understood everything perfectly, and gave me such a great explanations. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!! On 18 Mar, 15:56, David McFarlane wrote: > Hmm, interesting puzzle, not your typical "randomize without consecutive > repeats" problem.  First let's make sure that I have it right.  Your > stimuli consist of single digits from 0 to 9, and you want to present > these in a somewhat random trial sequence such that each stimulus > follows every other stimulus (except itself) exactly once.  Do I have > that right so far?  If so, then I believe you will need 91 trials to do > this, and the final trial will always be the same as the first.  Also, > although PST's bogosort- (look that up on Wikipedia) style algorithm in > their NoRepeat.es example may work in simple cases, it would almost > certainly fail to produce a solution in any reasonable time for your > criteria.  And you would still need to write the code to filter for your > criteria (which are more complicated than merely no consecutive > repeats), which would present another tough challenge.  The method I > present here may be no easier to program, but at least it does provide a > full solution that will run in a deterministic time frame. > > Now, I like to think of these puzzles in terms of how I would do them > manually with decks of cards or with pencil and paper.  I also like to > reduce them to a simpler example and then scale up later.  So let's look > at how we might arrange a sequence of simply 1, 2, and 3 following your > criteria. > > I might start by writing a list of all trial (or stimulus) transitions > that meet our criteria, and then shuffle that list.  Note that for 1 2 3 > we have six such possible transitional pairs, and here is one such list > for the sake of discussion (note there are 6! = 720 possible such > shuffled lists for 1 2 3): > > 1 2 > 1 3 > 2 1 > 2 3 > 3 1 > 3 2 > > Now, I start with the first pair, 1 2, and cross that off the list.  I > then look for the next unused pair that begins with 2, which in this > case is 2 1.  So I append the 1 to our full trial sequence (bringing it > to 1 2 1) and cross that pair off the list.  Then I look for the next > unused pair that begins with 1 (cycling through to the top of the list > if necessary), and that brings us to 1 3.  So we append 3 to our full > sequence.  Next we come to 3 1, and append 1 to our sequence.  Next we > come to ... oh oh!  No more unused pairs that start with 1 to pick up, > and we still have 2 3 and 3 2 left over.  Well then, we just move down > to 3 2 instead, and append 2 to our sequence.  Next we get to 2 3, and > finally to 3 1, and that brings our full sequence to (drum roll, please), > 1 2 1 3 2 3 1. > Please check my work now and make sure that I got it right.  And note > that our sequence consists of (nStim * (nStim-1) + 1) = 7 trials, and > starts and ends with 1.  Then try this with some examples of your own > and see how it works. > > Now you merely have to implement that in E-Prime code, and I leave that > as a programming exercise.  If it were me I might well first work this > out in Excel with a combination of Excel functions and custom Excel VBA > macros, starting with the simplest example as above and then scaling up > to my full stimulus set.  Once I got it all working in Excel I would > then port it over to E-Prime. > > Now here is another way to see the same algorithm, and in a way that may > make it more programmable.  This time, for each stimulus we make a > separate list of what stimuli may follow it, and shuffle each list > separately.  For stimuli 1 2 3 we get three lists, e.g., > > 1  2  3 > -  -  - > 2  1  2 > 3  3  1 > > This time, we start by picking one list at random, say, 2.  So we start > our full trial sequence with 2, and take the next unused item in list 2, > i.e., 1.  Append that to our sequence (now 2 1), then take the next > unused item from list 1 to append to our sequence (2 1 2).  Back to list > 2, next unused item is 3, take that (2 1 2 3).  Over to list 3, next > unused item is 2 (2 1 2 3 2).  Oops!  No more items in list 2.  So > return that 2 to list 3 and instead take the next item, 1 (2 1 2 3 1). > Over to list 1, next unused item is 3 (2 1 2 3 1 3).  On to list 3, pick > up that remaining 1, and we are done: > 2 1 2 3 1 3 1. > Voila!  Once again, I now leave this algorithm as an E-Prime programming > exercise. > > Note that this algorithm may be generalized to handle a wide variety of > randomization with constraint problems.  Finally, astute readers will > notice that I have here presented a scaled-down version of the beautiful > algorithm published in Remillard, G., & Clark, J. M. (1999) "Generating > fixed-length sequences statisfying any given nth-order transition > probability matrix", Beh Res Meth, Instr, & Computers 31: 235-243  (and > refined more recently in Remillard, G. (2008) "A program for generating > randomized simple and context-sensitive sequences", Beh Res Meth 40 (2): > 484-492).  I highly advise all to look at those fine papers. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our > native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for > making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious."  Edsger W. > Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'",http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html. > > > > leylo wrote: > > I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post > > this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would > > really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I > > have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. > > > Problem is:  90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that > > every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive > > presentations are not allowed. > > > I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get > > the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so > > great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if > > someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. > > > Thanks in advance!- Nascondi testo citato > > - Mostra testo citato - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. 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From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 12:03:35 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:03:35 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <02ea549e-a51a-486b-b75f-f1b99d60da8c@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Something does not work in my program, it was certainly risky to start eprime by a "mere exposure paradigm experiment", I thought it would be easier ... but now my problems are piling up seriously because even if I make all possible lists of all possible combinations of frequencies between these stimuli, I am in a second block to assess the stimuli (single trials) with Likert scale but this must be conditioned by the frequency of exposure ... I try, I try, if I find a way I describe here my whole protocol, hoping that I find the elegant way, without entering the hundreds of possible combinations by hand ... I'd have to connect these lists, such as a list A with 8 to stimuli in a random draw, with exclusion list B (8 stimuli - stimuli random list A), list C (8 stimuli - stimuli random from A and B) ... etc. I have to get there because I want to use eprime is so much fun and easy as Inquisition ... I have a few hours to find a way to get through this but if someone has a runway, an idea, a vision, a different architecture to do that, I'm on the lookout ... I try many things with colon syntax, nested list, attributes .. but it does not as it should! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hyungwook.yim at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 11:54:33 2010 From: hyungwook.yim at gmail.com (HW) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:54:33 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? In-Reply-To: <43f3bdce-c36e-4611-b81c-24a878271f3c@g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: The experiment again ~ :) [list 1] -> [distractor task] -> [list 2] -> [distractor task] -> [test] cat-dog apple - orange big-small cup-mug ..... .... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 12:15:13 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:15:13 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <02ea549e-a51a-486b-b75f-f1b99d60da8c@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: will try to describe simplify the protocol I'm trying to write. The paradigm of mere exposure effect follows a mechanism in two steps: the first is the presentation of a set of stimulus items (8 items presented several times by a variable frequency of exposure), the second step is the evaluation these stimuli. There is a first block (mere exposure of stimuli) and a second block or each stimulus is presented individually and measure the attitude of each subject for all the stimuli of the battery. So simple enough but it is clean everything must this be done by random, to avoid any effect of order of stimuli. In premoier block, therefore it is assigned a random stimuli with a term frequency site exhibits - 4 terms, 1/3/6/9 - 38 exhibits from the battery of items. There are two random to make the order and assignment-frequency stimuli. Then, the second block must have the 8 stimuli one by one but the dependent variable will record the score as a function of frequency of exposure ... I then subjected to two points, the frequency assignment to present the stimuli and the assignment to the frequency on the dependent variable also ... The headache Chinese, voila j'espere have been more clear on this last message. Thank you to those who take the time to read and whatever happens, I'll post my Protcol if I happen to win it Thank you all, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 19 14:20:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:20:54 -0400 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <02ea549e-a51a-486b-b75f-f1b99d60da8c@t41g2000yqt.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... By "randomize ... different exposure frequency" I suppose you mean you want to control the List Weights for the different trials in your trial List. In that case, I see two approaches: 1) If you have a small number of sets of Weight assignments, then make a separate List for each set of weights. Enclose each List in its own Procedure. Then use each of those Procedures in a different row of an outer block List, and set that List to random order, etc. 2) Otherwise, adjust the List Weights directly from inline code using List.SetWeight and List.Reset. For more information on that, look in the online E-Basic Help, and search this Group and the PST Forum using terms like "setweight". And once again, do not neglect PST Web Support (http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp ), that's what it is for. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 3/18/2010 08:32 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Thanks for this group, here I have find a lot of stuff and want to >thanks also Michiel Spape for his very nice PDF on Eprime... > >I finally write this message because I give up... it's nearly 01:00 >and now I'm looking for help because I feel blind... > >I'm putting together an experiment about "mere exposure paradigm"/ >Zajonc stuff... In a first part, I just want to expose 8 stimuli with >4 different exposure frequency (1/3/6/9)... I want to randomize both >the order of presentation and the different exposure frequency... > >It's a intrasubject experiment and the most important is to random the >assignment of stimuli to exposure frequency conditions. I'm trying >to do this through nested lists, and have successfully randomized the >order of stimuli, but am stumped on how to randomize stimuli to the >different frequency exposure. It seems like it shouldn't be that >hard, and maybe I'm just being dense, but I can't figure it out. >Anyone have any ideas? > >I try something with the nested list but can't figure how I can do to >random the frequency. > >In the second part, I would like to expose each 8 stimuli one by one >to measure the attitude toward it so I need to know for each subject >wich stimuli have been randomized on frequency. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 14:45:20 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 07:45:20 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <4ba38847.5944f10a.1b33.6c55SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you David I noticed and contacted the media Eprime to ask my question because I hope to find the elegant answer, the real implementation of my program variables. For now, I try to find a way since Monday morning, I want my program installed in the experimental hall. I made a program under inquisitorial but I really want to succeed by eprime! My problem is rather random assignment between stimuli and frequency of exposure. I'll watch with weights, but I already tried with 6 stimuli nested into each other and 3 weight, there are 729 possible combinations of these stimuli ... thank you for the info, I must find a way not to enter into the 729 lists blockproc:) with the nested list I should be able to do something to prevent it, for sure, it would be irrational ... :). To randomize the order or different lists that rotate in a block, no problem, but to control the variable frequency, I am a bit lost ... I continue the fight, I'll find! thank you and thank you to David for these tracks, I dig. Thank you to this group exists to share all this knowledge ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From julie.gonn at gmail.com Sat Mar 20 21:50:47 2010 From: julie.gonn at gmail.com (Julie Gonn) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:50:47 -0700 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen Message-ID: Hello, I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? Many thanks in advance, Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 10:14:21 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed Kenett) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:14:21 +0200 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hi thank you so much for your help i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to record keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i have managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program to code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and still when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not hebrew characters. what is my next step? On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > Welcome back Yoed. > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > where exactly. > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > steps or not. > > Best, > > liw > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > hi there > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > can anyone help me with this? > > thanks > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giladsabo at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 13:15:09 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:15:09 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <48251bb71003210314o6d4f995apef97ac0356355064@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 21 מרץ, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > hi > thank you so much for your help > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to record > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i have > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program to > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and still > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > hebrew characters. > what is my next step? > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > where exactly. > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > steps or not. > > > Best, > > > liw > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > hi there > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > thanks > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > Yoed Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal once windows support Hebrew. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 14:07:23 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:07:23 -0700 Subject: Voice and mouse response Message-ID: Hi all, In my experiment I record voice RTs-it's a simple flanker task. However, as I'm working also with children and as sometimes the SRB may miss the voice response I also want to add key press to the very same slide. Meaning that it goes like that: slide one-stimulus +flankers : subject have to sound his/her answer and simultaneously press the right click of the mouse. Only then the next step in the trial will run. Slide two (step two in the trial)-the expreminter press 1 or 2 (1 is correct answer) and had the exprimenter press 2 (incorrect answer) he/she had then to indicate the what was participant response. so, over all I have here 2 slides-one is the experiment and it must be able to collect both SRB and mouse RTs. The other must be able to collect two responses:one mark the answer of participant and the other, in a case of wrong answer, indicate what was the answer. I tried to solve it with an askbox that get string only in a case of accuracy=0. It work well but it interrupt with the experimental design itself. So my question is how can I collect both RTs from the SRB and the mouse in the same slide object. And how can I collect then after, in the experimenter slide (the experimenter is present in the room all along the experiment, sitting near the participant and controling the keyboard) to insert the participant response when he/she wrong without using askbox? If you can answer me in detail or to refer me to previous post which do this in this group I will be grateful once again. Regards Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 14:03:18 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed Kenett) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:03:18 +0200 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <7f937e65-ef37-4ad2-ba6b-fc8d49314bae@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: hi the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > On 21 מרץ, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > hi > > thank you so much for your help > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to > record > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i > have > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program > to > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and > still > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > > hebrew characters. > > what is my next step? > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > > where exactly. > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > > steps or not. > > > > > Best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > hi there > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > characters > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > thanks > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > Yoed > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > once windows support Hebrew. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giladsabo at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 20:27:45 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:27:45 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <48251bb71003210703g350d22bcub8625f0c77f2eaa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Appologize for the silly reply... On 21 מרץ, 16:03, Yoed Kenett wrote: > hi > the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... > > > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > On 21 מרץ, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > hi > > > thank you so much for your help > > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to > > record > > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i > > have > > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program > > to > > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and > > still > > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > > > hebrew characters. > > > what is my next step? > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > > > where exactly. > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > > > steps or not. > > > > > Best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > > hi there > > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > > characters > > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > > thanks > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > Yoed > > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > > once windows support Hebrew. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From A.McGuffie at Coventry.ac.uk Mon Mar 22 10:08:07 2010 From: A.McGuffie at Coventry.ac.uk (Evertox) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:08:07 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? In-Reply-To: <43f3bdce-c36e-4611-b81c-24a878271f3c@g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Is this a swf file re-named? An FLV file is usually a video file. If this is a true FLV video file then just convert it to an mpeg. If it is an interactive game then it is probably an swf file. On 18 Mar, 21:01, HW wrote: > I am doing memory experiments for child (memorizing two paired list) > >  and I have good distractor tasks that should go after each list, > before the test. > > something like: > --------------------------- > [list 1]        ->   [distractor task]  ->       [list 2]       -> > [distractor task] -> [test] > cat-dog                                         apple - orange > big-small                                        cup-mug >  .....                                                      .... > -------------------------------- > > However, I can't find out how to embed the flash game in EPrime... Is > it possible? > > (1) I've tried to stop Eprime for a while by pressing "Control + ESC" > but this would make Eprime stop~! > > (2) I've tried to make two experiment programs each for list1 and > list2, so that I could use the flash game independently. >  But then I can't randomize the words as a whole - I need to randomly > pull out the word for each list from the same pool. > > (3) related to #(2) is there a way to save the results that eprime > computed and use it in another experiment? >  - I was thinking of making the first program(program 1) generate two > random list of words from a pool and use half of it in the current > experiment, save the other half in a file. Then the second program > reads the file and uses the list of words that program1 had already > generated~! > > Is this possible? > > I hope somebody could give some advice~! :) > > or... I should I just have to forget randomizing things perfectly... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 13:16:22 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:16:22 -0700 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen In-Reply-To: <7290f22d-0ddb-4388-80b2-db79567b37dc@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Julie, there is no stopwatch function I'd know of, but there might be a way of implementing one. If you need an anolog clock, you will probably have to go for bitmaps. You could make bitmaps for each stopwatch state and then let them run in a row. Note that the stop watch will not change more often than the screen can change, e.g. every 10 ms for a 100 Hz screen. If a digital stopwatch will do it, I guess it is much easier. You just need a textdisplay with an embedded variable that runs in a loop. How to exactly implement that also depends on what purpose you need the stopwatch for. Are participants just to watch it or also react to the stopwatch? Cheers, Tobias On 20 Mrz., 22:50, Julie Gonn wrote: > Hello, > > I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop > watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. > Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), > and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. > I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be > possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? > > Many thanks in advance, > Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 22 15:13:37 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:13:37 -0000 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen In-Reply-To: <7290f22d-0ddb-4388-80b2-db79567b37dc@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Are you doing a Libet thing? Anyway, what you want can be quite easy or difficult, depending on the amount of coding you're interested in. What I often do, during a break, is something like For I = 120 to 1 step -1 myBreakScreen.Text = "Have a break for " & cstr(i) & " seconds!" myBreakScreen.Run Next I With myBreakscreen being merely an empty textDisplay, let's call it myBreakScreen. You could tweak this by using a slide with a picture of a stopwatch, embedding an attribute into that, say [TimeLeft] and doing the following: For I = 120 to 1 step -1 c.SetAttrib "TimeLeft", i myBreakScreen.Run Next I Voila! Of course, all these interruptions and whatnot need to be taken into account, so you might have a little more difficulty in getting this to work, but I suppose this is enough as a proof of concept? Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Julie Gonn Sent: 20 March 2010 21:51 To: E-Prime Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen Hello, I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? Many thanks in advance, Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From wangshusandra at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 20:22:38 2010 From: wangshusandra at gmail.com (Sandra Wang) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:22:38 -0700 Subject: Count Trials Message-ID: Hello, I am a beginner in E-prime and I am currently putting together an study where I would like to terminate the whole experiment when subjects have, say, 8 correct consecutive responses (CCR). There are 14 blocks and 16 trials in each block. So subjects can make 8 correct responses in a row either within the 16 trials in a block or across two block ( e.g., get the last two trials correct in the first block and first 6 trials correct in the second block). I used the following scripts for the trial list as well as the block list. But it only worked when 8 CCR was made within a block, when across two blocks, the experiment was terminated when only 7 CCR was made. Please help!!! For the trial list: For the block list: If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 Else Else TrialCount = 0 TrialCount = 0 End If End If If TrialCount >= 8 Then If TrialCount >= 8 Then Expllist.Terminate Explblock.Terminate Else Else CriterionMet = False CriterionMet = False Thanks very much, Sandra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 22 21:10:31 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:10:31 -0400 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen In-Reply-To: <7290f22d-0ddb-4388-80b2-db79567b37dc@x12g2000yqx.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Hmm, how about the CountDownClock.es example on the PST download site? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder. At 3/20/2010 05:50 PM Saturday, you wrote: >I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop >watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. >Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), >and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. >I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be >possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? > >Many thanks in advance, >Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 10:53:18 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:53:18 -0700 Subject: Count Trials In-Reply-To: <4643b150-a2ce-4058-8eb4-802c65bcf8dc@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Sandra, The doubling thing of the script you posted confuses me a bit... Am I correct to think that there are two inlines both containing an almost identical script in your experiment? One attached to a blockprocedure and another one to a trialprocedure?? Then that where it goes wrong... Imagine that the blockprocedure runs once.... it first encounters the list and runs it: 14 x a trialprocedure and on each trialprocedure it also encounters the other inline with this script and for a correct response it adds 1 to trialcount... Now after the 14 levels of the list have run... it continues the blockprocedure and encounters the inline that tells it to add 1 to trialcount if stimpress.acc =1.. but this correct response was already added by the other copy of the script on the trialproc.... and thus: trialcount = 8 is reached after 7 correct. I think you should simply get rid of the script on the blockproc and keep the one on the trialproc as you need the inline to be run once every trial. I am not too sure why you have a blockproc but couldn't you get rid of it altogether? Of course, I don't have the complete information but if you use the blockproc only to initiate the triallist an x number of times (and not to differentiate between different triallists for instance) than it would be more elegant to tell the 14 level triallist to run an x number of cycles: one cycle is one 'run' of each level and once all 14 levels have been run it starts again with running all levels once for the next cycle. Your script will then only need expllist.terminate, if you decide to keep the blockproc, I think that just terminating the blocklist (instead of one script for terminating blocklist and another for terminating the triallist) will suffice for your needs. => consider removing your blockproc => definitely remove one version of the script. Best, liwenna 'This inline organises that the practicetrials are ended when the subject 'answered 6 or more consecutive trials correct and has practiced at least 10 trials. 'If after 10 trials the number of consecutive correctly answered trials is less than '6 it will continue the practicetrials until the 6-consecutive-correct criterium is met. if practicetrial.acc = 1 then practicecounter = practicecounter + 1 if practicetrial.acc = 0 then practicecounter = 0 c.setattrib "practicecorrectcount", practicecounter if c.getattrib ("practicelist.sample") > 9 and practicecounter > 5 then practicelist.terminate if practicetrial.acc = 1 then goto skiplabel On Mar 22, 9:22 pm, Sandra Wang wrote: > Hello, > > I am a beginner in E-prime and I am currently putting together an > study where I would like to terminate the whole experiment when > subjects have, say, 8 correct consecutive responses (CCR). There are > 14 blocks and 16 trials in each block. So subjects can make 8 correct > responses in a row either within the 16 trials in a block or across > two block ( e.g., get the last two trials correct in the first block > and first 6 trials correct in the second block). I used the following > scripts for the trial list as well as the block list. But it only > worked when 8 CCR was made within a block, when across two blocks, the > experiment was terminated when only 7 CCR was made. > > Please help!!! > > For the trial > list: For > the block list: > > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > Else > Else > TrialCount = 0 > TrialCount = 0 > End > If > End If > > If TrialCount >= 8 > Then If TrialCount > > >= 8 Then > > Expllist.Terminate > Explblock.Terminate > > Else > Else > CriterionMet = False > CriterionMet = False > > Thanks very much, > Sandra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 10:57:11 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:57:11 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <965d8a76-a3ce-479c-b813-f8108478fb3a@l25g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Gilis, there are no silly replies! Quite often the most obvious things get the most easily overlooked. Yoed: no luck yet I suppose? Have you taken this up with PST? For what it's worth: as reported before I do get to see wingdings on my screen but the logged responses are in "english"... i.e. letters and no fancy wingdings... On Mar 21, 9:27 pm, gilis wrote: > Appologize for the silly reply... > > On 21 מרץ, 16:03, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > hi > > the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... > > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > > On 21 מרץ, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > > hi > > > > thank you so much for your help > > > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to > > > record > > > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i > > > have > > > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > > > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program > > > to > > > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > > > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and > > > still > > > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > > > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > > > > hebrew characters. > > > > what is my next step? > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > > > > where exactly. > > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > > > > steps or not. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > > > hi there > > > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > > > characters > > > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > > Yoed > > > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > > > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > > > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > > > once windows support Hebrew. > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > -- > > Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hyungwook.yim at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 11:30:08 2010 From: hyungwook.yim at gmail.com (HW) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:30:08 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? In-Reply-To: <97d4da49-b5e8-47f6-b0f9-6d5e50840126@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Yes~! it is an interactive game... :) so it seems it is an swf file... any solutions? thanks... On 3월22일, 오전6시08분, Evertox wrote: > Is this a swf file re-named? An FLV file is usually a video file. If > this is a true FLV video file then just convert it to an mpeg. > If it is an interactive game then it is probably an swf file. > > On 18 Mar, 21:01, HW wrote:> I am doing memory experiments for child (memorizing two paired list) > > > and I have good distractor tasks that should go after each list, > > before the test. > > > something like: > > --------------------------- > > [list 1] -> [distractor task] -> [list 2] -> > > [distractor task] -> [test] > > cat-dog apple - orange > > big-small cup-mug > > ..... .... > > -------------------------------- > > > However, I can't find out how to embed the flash game in EPrime... Is > > it possible? > > > (1) I've tried to stop Eprime for a while by pressing "Control + ESC" > > but this would make Eprime stop~! > > > (2) I've tried to make two experiment programs each for list1 and > > list2, so that I could use the flash game independently. > > But then I can't randomize the words as a whole - I need to randomly > > pull out the word for each list from the same pool. > > > (3) related to #(2) is there a way to save the results that eprime > > computed and use it in another experiment? > > - I was thinking of making the first program(program 1) generate two > > random list of words from a pool and use half of it in the current > > experiment, save the other half in a file. Then the second program > > reads the file and uses the list of words that program1 had already > > generated~! > > > Is this possible? > > > I hope somebody could give some advice~! :) > > > or... I should I just have to forget randomizing things perfectly... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 11:55:01 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed Kenett) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:55:01 +0200 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <58ff9881-62cc-42ff-9136-65e51fd06fb5@d37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: hi i have actually taken this up with PST and late last night i got an answer - the short version of it is no. attaching below the answer i got from them, thanks everyone for their help in this issue! ++++ Yoed, Are you using E-Prime v1.x or E-Prime 2.0? While E-Prime 2.0 is supported by the English/Western European versions of Windows XP and Vista, this really only applies to text that is displayed by the objects. That is, while the "Text" property of a TextDisplay will accept foreign characters, the other properties (including .Input and its related echo properties) will not. All non-English characters or accents will go unrecognized by E-Prime in the responses and in the text that is echoed to the screen. E-Prime 2.0 has resolved this to some degree by allowing non-English fonts to appear as responses in the data file (i.e., UNICODE fonts are permitted). However, the echo client will still only display English and the responses themselves will still be based on the QWERTY keyboard. You could get around this by manually echoing the subject's responses to the screen. For example, you could take the subject's input and then convert it to Hebrew in script, and then display this on screen (e.g., if the semicolon key is pressed, convert this to a specific character and display it on screen, etc). However, this can be fairly script intensive and would require that the Hebrew characters appear correctly in TextDisplay objects and/or Slide objects and appear correctly in InLine objects. If you are interested, I would recommend taking a look at SAMPLE:Process Responses Templatefor an example of how to change what is displayed on screen based on the subject's responses. Please let me know if you have any further questions. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:57 PM, liwenna wrote: > Gilis, there are no silly replies! Quite often the most obvious things > get the most easily overlooked. > > Yoed: no luck yet I suppose? Have you taken this up with PST? For what > it's worth: as reported before I do get to see wingdings on my screen > but the logged responses are in "english"... i.e. letters and no fancy > wingdings... > > > > > > On Mar 21, 9:27 pm, gilis wrote: > > Appologize for the silly reply... > > > > On 21 מרץ, 16:03, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > > > hi > > > the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... > > > > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > > > > On 21 מרץ, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > > > hi > > > > > thank you so much for your help > > > > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how > to > > > > record > > > > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help > and i > > > > have > > > > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed > is for > > > > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the > program > > > > to > > > > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced > display > > > > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font > and > > > > still > > > > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in > english > > > > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and > not > > > > > hebrew characters. > > > > > what is my next step? > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna > wrote: > > > > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and > that > > > > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going > wrong > > > > > > where exactly. > > > > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but > that > > > > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for > what > > > > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input > tab > > > > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... > you can > > > > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go > to > > > > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the > font > > > > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. > showing on > > > > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for > lack of > > > > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all > right. > > > > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only > enter 1 > > > > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can > enter > > > > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, > so > > > > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let > us > > > > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the > above > > > > > > steps or not. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > > > > hi there > > > > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject > with a > > > > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with > the > > > > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need > the > > > > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant > figure > > > > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > > > > characters > > > > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to > hebrew > > > > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > > Groups > > > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Yoed > > > > > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > > > > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > > > > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > > > > once windows support Hebrew. > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > Yoed > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 13:03:12 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:03:12 -0700 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys Message-ID: Hi guys, I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster. I notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop. An error message appears when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run. Is there a workaround for this that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? Thanks, -Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 13:22:12 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:22:12 -0000 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <761ab85d-3c23-4d25-9393-951a1ca401e3@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Matt, This bug occasionally comes up on this list (you might want to search). The answer takes longer to write than implement: screwdriver. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Sent: 23 March 2010 13:03 To: E-Prime Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys Hi guys, I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster. I notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop. An error message appears when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run. Is there a workaround for this that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? Thanks, -Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Tue Mar 23 13:52:11 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:52:11 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? Message-ID: HELLO I have a very simple question but I'm harmful, so I can not go through with my idea. I wish to submit 6 images of your choice in one click with slide object. What I do is ask the subjects to click on the image they prefer and what choices are recorded in the dependent variable (or attribute for the result). How to make it? I want a script or a way to write (I'm beginner in programming) in order to record the results of these clicks as dependent variable. This could help launch different paths in experience from this first choice. While I am a little different variation, I take this opportunity to even ask you if a spot of prioritizing would be feasible (ie asking subjects to choose their favorite pictures and having clicked, the image is removed from the slide the subject clicking until he left image in the slide .. So it helps to know the order of preference on a picture series .. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 14:06:08 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:06:08 -0400 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02FD2FE2@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Indeed, here is my favorite thread on this, with Michiel's earlier full reply (and my slight elaboration, so I could find the thread using "epoxy" as a search term): http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/6ff76d4d7b9575f8 . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi Matt, >This bug occasionally comes up on this list (you >might want to search). The answer takes longer >to write than implement: screwdriver. >Cheers, >Mich > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew >Sent: 23 March 2010 13:03 >To: E-Prime >Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys > >Hi guys, > >I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster. I >notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system >jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop. An error message appears >when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run. Is there a workaround for this >that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? > >Thanks, >-Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 14:08:15 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:08:15 -0400 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: SlideState.HitTest. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/23/2010 09:52 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >HELLO > >I have a very simple question but I'm harmful, so I can not go through >with my idea. > >I wish to submit 6 images of your choice in one click with slide >object. > >What I do is ask the subjects to click on the image they prefer and >what choices are recorded in the dependent variable (or attribute for >the result). > >How to make it? > >I want a script or a way to write (I'm beginner in programming) in >order to record the results of these clicks as dependent variable. > >This could help launch different paths in experience from this first >choice. > >While I am a little different variation, I take this opportunity to >even ask you if a spot of prioritizing would be feasible (ie asking >subjects to choose their favorite pictures and having clicked, the >image is removed from the slide the subject clicking until he left >image in the slide .. So it helps to know the order of preference on a >picture series .. > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 14:13:00 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:13:00 -0400 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <48251bb71003230455l653807dh5f78f8c2a4d0715@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yoed, Thanks for getting and posting the reply from PST. I wonder if any of the alternatives to E-Prime (e.g., Presentation, http://www.neurobs.com ) could do a better job of handling non-English input? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >i have actually taken this up with PST and late last night i got an >answer - the short version of it is no. attaching below the answer i >got from them, thanks everyone for their help in this issue! > >++++ > >Yoed, > >Are you using E-Prime v1.x or E-Prime 2.0? While E-Prime 2.0 is >supported by the English/Western European versions of Windows XP and >Vista, this really only applies to text that is displayed by the >objects. That is, while the "Text" property of a TextDisplay will >accept foreign characters, the other properties (including .Input >and its related echo properties) will not. All non-English >characters or accents will go unrecognized by E-Prime in the >responses and in the text that is echoed to the screen. > >E-Prime 2.0 has resolved this to some degree by allowing non-English >fonts to appear as responses in the data file (i.e., UNICODE fonts >are permitted). However, the echo client will still only display >English and the responses themselves will still be based on the >QWERTY keyboard. You could get around this by manually echoing the >subject's responses to the screen. For example, you could take the >subject's input and then convert it to Hebrew in script, and then >display this on screen (e.g., if the semicolon key is pressed, >convert this to a specific character and display it on screen, etc). >However, this can be fairly script intensive and would require that >the Hebrew characters appear correctly in TextDisplay objects and/or >Slide objects and appear correctly in InLine objects. If you are >interested, I would recommend taking a look at >SAMPLE:Process >Responses Template for an example of how to change what is displayed >on screen based on the subject's responses. > >Please let me know if you have any further questions. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 18:45:07 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:45:07 -0700 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <4ba8cad4.5944f10a.22ac.ffffeb09SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Michial & David, I did a brief search of "Windows key" before posting, but received a ton of hits, the first few pages of which didn't turn up anything useful. Wasn't sure on what keywords to use to make search more efficient. I'm running in a shared computer lab for our department. I wish I could do the epoxy/screwdriver option, but I might have to settle for the keykiller, provided that our network admin allows it. Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. Thanks again, -Matt On Mar 23, 10:06 am, David McFarlane wrote: > Indeed, here is my favorite thread on this, with > Michiel's earlier full reply (and my slight > elaboration, so I could find the thread using > "epoxy" as a search > term):http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/6ff76d4d7.... > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hi Matt, > >This bug occasionally comes up on this list (you > >might want to search). The answer takes longer > >to write than implement: screwdriver. > >Cheers, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew > >Sent: 23 March 2010 13:03 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys > > >Hi guys, > > >I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster.  I > >notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system > >jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop.  An error message appears > >when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run.  Is there a workaround for this > >that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? > > >Thanks, > >-Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 19:34:50 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:34:50 -0400 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <341c7026-ae0d-4fea-b7f3-f548b6628c7d@b30g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Matt, >Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that >allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. Let's put the blame where it belongs: It's a shame that Microsoft makes an operating system that makes it so hard to disable some of these "high priority" key commands. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 20:00:18 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:00:18 -0700 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <4ba917df.5944f10a.1f3e.05b8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I guess that's a more accurate framing of the problem. Where's that screwdriver :) -Matt On Mar 23, 3:34 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Matt, > > >Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that > >allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. > > > Let's put the blame where it belongs:  It's a shame that Microsoft > makes an operating system that makes it so hard to disable some of > these "high priority" key commands. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 20:39:36 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:39:36 -0000 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <4ba917df.5944f10a.1f3e.05b8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey! At least in Windows, you only should not press the Windows key on the keyboard... If it'd been a mac, I wouldn't been able to lean against one side of the display which suddenly magically turns the computer off or, conversely, be able to poll the other mouse key. Also, one might blame hardware producers (I've got a TechSolo keyboard here, for instance) for putting windows keys there, rather than the OS. Oops, excuse me - I always feel the need for defending MS against the onslaught of windows-bashers... after all, those initials are pure gold! On a more informative note, you might 1) use different keys, making it pretty unlikely that your subjects press the Windows key, 2) use that screwdriver anyway and just plug back the key afterwards. Nobody will notice :) Try at home first, or, if you're really unsure, just buy one for $6 (or half that, second hand), yank out those keys and plug in the old one. Actually, old keyboards (from E-Prime 1 era, which still recommended Win98SE just about until E-Prime 2 was released) typically don't even have Win keys. Cheers, M.S. Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 23 March 2010 19:35 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: disabling input for specific keyboard keys Matt, >Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that >allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. Let's put the blame where it belongs: It's a shame that Microsoft makes an operating system that makes it so hard to disable some of these "high priority" key commands. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 10:20:07 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:20:07 -0700 Subject: Count Trials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ho... I just notice this now... the last bit of the above post is to be ignored... when I start writing the post I copy pasted that piece of code that I use for practicetrials thinking I might tweak it into a script for Sandra to use, but that didn'thappen and thus I should have removed the code-part, but apparantly forgot... On Mar 23, 11:53 am, liwenna wrote: > Hey Sandra, > > The doubling thing of the script you posted confuses me a bit... > > Am I correct to think that there are two inlines both containing an > almost identical script in your experiment? One attached to a > blockprocedure and another one to a trialprocedure?? Then that where > it goes wrong... Imagine that the blockprocedure runs once.... it > first encounters the list and runs it: 14 x a trialprocedure and on > each trialprocedure it also encounters the other inline with this > script and for a correct response it adds 1 to trialcount... Now after > the 14 levels of the list have run... it continues the blockprocedure > and encounters the inline that tells it to add 1 to trialcount if > stimpress.acc =1.. but this correct response was already added by the > other copy of the script on the trialproc.... and thus: trialcount = 8 > is reached after 7 correct. > > I think you should simply get rid of the script on the blockproc and > keep the one on the trialproc as you need the inline to be run once > every trial. I am not too sure why you have a blockproc but couldn't > you get rid of it altogether? Of course, I don't have the complete > information but if you use the blockproc only to initiate the > triallist an x number of times (and not to differentiate between > different triallists for instance) than it would be more elegant to > tell the 14 level triallist to run an x number of cycles: one cycle is > one 'run' of each level and once all 14 levels have been run it starts > again with running all levels once for the next cycle. Your script > will then only need expllist.terminate, if you decide to keep the > blockproc, I think that just terminating the blocklist (instead of one > script for terminating blocklist and another for terminating the > triallist) will suffice for your needs. > > => consider removing your blockproc > => definitely remove one version of the script. > > Best, > > liwenna > > 'This inline organises that the practicetrials are ended when the > subject > 'answered 6 or more consecutive trials correct and has practiced at > least 10 trials. > 'If after 10 trials the number of consecutive correctly answered > trials is less than > '6 it will continue the practicetrials until the 6-consecutive-correct > criterium is met. > > if practicetrial.acc = 1 then practicecounter = practicecounter + 1 > > if practicetrial.acc = 0 then practicecounter = 0 > > c.setattrib "practicecorrectcount", practicecounter > > if c.getattrib ("practicelist.sample") > 9 and practicecounter > 5 > then practicelist.terminate > > if practicetrial.acc = 1 then goto skiplabel > > On Mar 22, 9:22 pm, Sandra Wang wrote: > > > Hello, > > > I am a beginner in E-prime and I am currently putting together an > > study where I would like to terminate the whole experiment when > > subjects have, say, 8 correct consecutive responses (CCR). There are > > 14 blocks and 16 trials in each block. So subjects can make 8 correct > > responses in a row either within the 16 trials in a block or across > > two block ( e.g., get the last two trials correct in the first block > > and first 6 trials correct in the second block). I used the following > > scripts for the trial list as well as the block list. But it only > > worked when 8 CCR was made within a block, when across two blocks, the > > experiment was terminated when only 7 CCR was made. > > > Please help!!! > > > For the trial > > list: For > > the block list: > > > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > > Else > > Else > > TrialCount = 0 > > TrialCount = 0 > > End > > If > > End If > > > If TrialCount >= 8 > > Then If TrialCount > > > >= 8 Then > > > Expllist.Terminate > > Explblock.Terminate > > > Else > > Else > > CriterionMet = False > > CriterionMet = False > > > Thanks very much, > > Sandra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 15:56:42 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:56:42 -0700 Subject: strange adding Message-ID: Hej there, I have a rather VB-related problem for a current E-Prime file. In a script I want to change an EEG marker according to a certain condition: if condition = 2 then dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker end if What E-Prime does is as follows: if the marker is 33 it will be 1033 afterwards. So it "adds" a ten in front of the number. Samewise, if I added + 2, it will put a 2 in front of the number. This is strange as "newmarker" is an integer. Even when I use "CInt(c.getattrib("Marker"))" which should turn any string into an integer, this doesn't change anything. Anyway out of here? THX, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Mar 24 16:54:08 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:54:08 -0000 Subject: strange adding In-Reply-To: <3a974225-9b8c-4573-a293-04a8da4e5678@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Tobias, Are you sure that this is the exact code you used? For one, if I try to replicate it, with 1 list, and one inline: dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker debug.print c.GetAttrib ("MarkerSearch") my debug output says 20, which is okay. Secondly, newmarker = newmarker + 10 should say, (if it would be a string operation) 3310 rather than 1033. Still, failing to replicate what you say in there, I can't help much, I'm afraid... For better code, how about this: dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker becomes c.SetAttrib "MarkerSearch", cInt(c.GetAttrib("Marker")) + 10 Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Sent: 24 March 2010 15:57 To: E-Prime Subject: strange adding Hej there, I have a rather VB-related problem for a current E-Prime file. In a script I want to change an EEG marker according to a certain condition: if condition = 2 then dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker end if What E-Prime does is as follows: if the marker is 33 it will be 1033 afterwards. So it "adds" a ten in front of the number. Samewise, if I added + 2, it will put a 2 in front of the number. This is strange as "newmarker" is an integer. Even when I use "CInt(c.getattrib("Marker"))" which should turn any string into an integer, this doesn't change anything. Anyway out of here? THX, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 25 22:22:11 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:22:11 -0400 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: The mod operator Message-ID: I had some unwelcome surprises when using the mod operator provided in E-Basic (IOW, VBA), in particular when using negative arguments, and PST's E-Basic Help file does not cover this topic in enough detail for me (for that matter their own supplied example code will not compile due to undeclared variables). So I took some time to explore this topic in some depth, and here is the result ... Let n and m stand for any expressions that evaluate to numeric values, and r = n mod m. Then r is the "remainder" of n/m [FN1] and takes on a value in the interval (-m, m) (i.e., r takes the same sign as n; the sign of m is ignored). Sometimes this is what you want, sometimes not. If you instead want something that acts more like a conventional algebraic ring so that r remains in the interval [0, m) (i.e., r remains positive), then do something like the following: r = n mod m: If (r < 0) Then r = r + abs(m). Note that if n and m are Integers then mod returns an Integer, otherwise the values supplied by n and m are first rounded to Long values and then mod returns a Long. Furthermore, Empty (i.e., uninitialized Variant) is treated as 0, and if either n or m are Null then mod returns Null. (And if you are silly enough to use an object value of Nothing for either n or m then mod will produce an "Object variable or With block not set" runtime error, unless the other argument is Null, in which case mod still returns Null. Whew!.) Finally, for a generalized real-number "modulo" function that returns the remainder as defined by the division algorithm (theorem) on Wikipedia (e.g., fmod(7,3) = fmod(7,-3) = 1, and fmod(-7,3) = fmod(-7,-3) = 2), do something like the following: r = n - (m * fix(n/m)): If (r < 0) Then r = r + abs(m) [FN1] More precisely, since the mod operator in E-Basic is strictly integer valued, the values supplied by n and m are first rounded to integer values n' and m', and then r = n' - (m' * (n\m)), where \ is the operator for integer division (n\m = fix(n'/m'), i.e., simple truncation or rounding to 0 of n/m, with n and m first rounded to integer values). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 10:49:11 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 03:49:11 -0700 Subject: Slide Objects shift their position Message-ID: Hello, I am having problem with my Slide Objects moving about. I have adapted Matt Lenharts VASModified (found here: http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic435-5-1.aspx?Highlight=questionnaire) to a twenty item questionnaire with four separate response alternatives. The script and response logging is working as it should, but when I run the survey the Slide Objects shift their location a bit. This makes it very difficult to see what set of response alternatives that correspond to a question. I return to E-Studio and reposition them to the correct positions, and everything looks fine. But then I run it and the positions are all messed up again. All in all, the entire Slide contain 115 SlideObjects (20 questions, 80 response alternatives, 10 color lines, 4 head lines and 1 next button) Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get the objects fixated? Running E-Prime 2 Pro on XP Best Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 10:59:57 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 03:59:57 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello It sounds similar to the VisualAnalogScale found here: http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic435-5-1.aspx?Highlight=questionnaire You can probably adapt it to fit your needs. /Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 26 15:23:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:23:56 -0400 Subject: Slide Objects shift their position In-Reply-To: <52afbdf6-8315-40a3-8cd9-abfb435f1872@v20g2000yqv.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Yep, another problem that should be taken directly to PST Web Support's trained staff at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp -- they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although latest reports indicate more like several days for typical responses), so don't be shy there. And if you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am having problem with my Slide Objects moving about. I have adapted >Matt Lenharts VASModified (found here: >http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic435-5-1.aspx?Highlight=questionnaire) >to a twenty item questionnaire with four separate response >alternatives. The script and response logging is working as it should, >but when I run the survey the Slide Objects shift their location a >bit. This makes it very difficult to see what set of response >alternatives that correspond to a question. I return to E-Studio and >reposition them to the correct positions, and everything looks fine. >But then I run it and the positions are all messed up again. > >All in all, the entire Slide contain 115 SlideObjects (20 questions, >80 response alternatives, 10 color lines, 4 head lines and 1 next >button) >Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get the objects fixated? > >Running E-Prime 2 Pro on XP > >Best >Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 17:37:13 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:37:13 -0700 Subject: strange adding In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02FD3515@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sometimes you just get lost too much into your loops. Thanks a lot for your answer Mich. Actually, I overlooked a loop. The adding of 10 was actually done 100 times. which just adds 1000 to your numer, hee hee! On 24 Mrz., 17:54, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Tobias, > Are you sure that this is the exact code you used? For one, if I try to replicate it, with 1 list, and one inline: > dim newmarker as integer > newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") > newmarker = newmarker + 10 > c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker > debug.print c.GetAttrib ("MarkerSearch") > > my debug output says 20, which is okay. Secondly, newmarker = newmarker + 10 should say, (if it would be a string operation) 3310 rather than 1033. Still, failing to replicate what you say in there, I can't help much, I'm afraid... For better code, how about this: > > dim newmarker as integer > newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") > newmarker = newmarker + 10 > c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker > > becomes > > c.SetAttrib "MarkerSearch", cInt(c.GetAttrib("Marker")) + 10 > > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias > Sent: 24 March 2010 15:57 > To: E-Prime > Subject: strange adding > > Hej there, > > I have a rather VB-related problem for a current E-Prime file. > In a script I want to change an EEG marker according to a certain > condition: > >         if condition = 2 then >                 dim newmarker as integer >                 newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") >                 newmarker = newmarker + 10 >                 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker >         end if > > What E-Prime does is as follows: if the marker is 33 it will be 1033 > afterwards. So it "adds" a ten in front of the number. Samewise, if I > added + 2, it will put a 2 in front of the number. This is strange as > "newmarker" is an integer. > > Even when I use "CInt(c.getattrib("Marker"))" which should turn any > string into an integer, this doesn't change anything. > > Anyway out of here? > THX, > Tobias > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 19:46:57 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:46:57 -0700 Subject: forward and backward priming Message-ID: Hi folks… First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to everyone who has contributed to this forum…I really learned a lot of important and interesting stuff here…. Thanks…. Now the problem… After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I’ll be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. Since I’m an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment doesn’t turn out to be perfectly clear…. I’ll certainly do my best… In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 letters –a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms). If cue is presented before target, there are four different possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the right side of the screen. If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of the cue remains the same – 200ms). Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in pseudo-random order. Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I would really appreciate your help. Thanks in advance -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From sara.agosta at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 20:48:23 2010 From: sara.agosta at gmail.com (saraag) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:48:23 -0700 Subject: trigger eye tracker and TMS Message-ID: Hi, I have a problem, I need to trigger with the same E-prime script a TMS machine and after 50ms the eye tracker. actually I think I have two problems: 1) I need to use the same parallel port and I'm not sure how to do this 2) If I trigger the eye tracker at the same time I need to open the parallel port and this will result in the triggering of the TMS machine as well? Does anyne can help me? Thank you very much Sara -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mscullin521 at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 21:21:14 2010 From: mscullin521 at gmail.com (Mike) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:21:14 -0700 Subject: End Task Early Message-ID: Is there anyway to end an eprime program early based on number of inaccurate responses to stimuli (without doing the control+alt+shift abort)? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 26 22:52:31 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:52:31 -0400 Subject: End Task Early In-Reply-To: <0eae599e-9f9f-48e6-aec5-5fe77272f81e@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Mike, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... You want to do a "criterion based exit". Now that you know the technical terminology, you can run a proper search and look through the PST Samples area. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) > Is there anyway to end an eprime program early based on number of > inaccurate responses to stimuli (without doing the control+alt+shift > abort)? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 10:52:35 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:52:35 +0100 Subject: forward and backward priming In-Reply-To: <741177b8-ade4-43f1-8993-df8533082254@35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Leylo, Your design seems clear enough, but... What exactly is the problem? It sounds a bit like you're asking 'how do I make my experiment in e-prime', which might require more of the casual or regular list-reader than they are willing to give. Compare this to writing to the cubase (a well-known music composition / production, etc software package) mailinglist, asking 'I have a problem: I want to write a jazzy song in 120 bpm that is catchy. It needs a chorus, three verses and a really cool sax solo. Please solve this for me.'. Chances are people will write back, willing to teach you if you have some spare money, but obviously, they're not immediately inclined to start helping you from scratch. So: 1. read the getting started guide; if you find that a bit too much 'point and click' instead of learning, try some course material (e.g. http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf), 2. start writing your experiment, begin with the things you already know how to do (if you still don't know how to do "350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms)", go back to step 1) 3. notice where exactly you get stuck. Is it the design? List operations? Some kind of coding problem? Crashing? Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo Sent: 26 March 2010 19:47 To: E-Prime Subject: forward and backward priming Hi folks... First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to everyone who has contributed to this forum...I really learned a lot of important and interesting stuff here.... Thanks.... Now the problem... After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I'll be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. Since I'm an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment doesn't turn out to be perfectly clear.... I'll certainly do my best... In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 letters -a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms). If cue is presented before target, there are four different possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the right side of the screen. If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of the cue remains the same - 200ms). Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in pseudo-random order. Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I would really appreciate your help. Thanks in advance -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 15:06:31 2010 From: lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com (lamchunpan2108) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:06:31 -0700 Subject: Test with time limit Message-ID: Hi all, I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. Thanks a lot for any help!!! Regards, Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Mon Mar 29 15:07:18 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:07:18 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: <9fea8e11-6269-4afb-83ca-b47ba900edf4@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Return Thank you to Lens and David for your answers ... I'm back here and Im sorry to ask for so simple thing but I need help because support PST should be overloaded, I did not get answers after almost 10 days... For me the handling of documents with EPRIME (Users Guide) went well but there is some simple thing that I can't resolve with the books... but I'd like to just do the simplest thing in the world... but I m lost... What I want to do is to present in the same time 4 pictures of phones in a slideobject (these 4 photos are subobject.) and I would like that the subjects make a choice by clicking on their favorite image (and I need that this choice 'inscribe in the database, in dependant variable). There is a function "tag" to record VD but unfortunately not much to subobjects ... I try to do something and modify the likert 7 scale but... error and error... I try to search something about the hitTest but Im looking for more informations... So I try here, If someone knows about that... THANKS Pierre -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Mon Mar 29 15:25:23 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:25:23 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <2c8689ba-f43d-49bc-8037-acacdfdb7b28@g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: To get outwith this, I did with....some different folders... I created 4 different experiences that I saved in different folders and I hand-randomized assignment between stimuli and frequency of exposure. Not beautiful... I programmed a summons fixed style stimuli1.jpg with a score of weight 1, etc. ... This allowed me to create a flash with random and then restate these stimuli to be assessed on a Likert ... Having failed to find a way to assign by computer image stimuli1 to real jpg, I prepared a folder with fifty images in different orders .... So for each new subject, I moved the program into a new folder ... It's ugly but it has the merit to worked. I am still awaiting the response of PST for 10 days and I hope to contribute to this topic by finding a better solution..... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 15:43:09 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:43:09 +0100 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <3a681ee2-961c-4f2c-808d-9775b4a467b2@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Ben, 1) set exit list to the 46 trials option 2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: Dim trialnum as integer 3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) trialnum = trialnum + 1 4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have passed and exit list if this happens: If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. ... That's the coding for beginners part, which I think works better as a tutorial. Far more elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: 'Stop running the list after the third trial If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 To: E-Prime Subject: Test with time limit Hi all, I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. Thanks a lot for any help!!! Regards, Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 15:53:37 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:53:37 -0700 Subject: forward and backward priming In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF0308852D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Michiel, I already solve the problem. It’s really unbelievable, but right after that I read my post, I knew what I’m supposed to do. I think that the problem was in the description of experiment that I was given….. it was so complicated and incomplete , that I myself couldn’t understand what should I do…. Anyway, thank you so much for your reply, and for your analogies that always make me laugh :-) Thanks On Mar 29, 12:52 pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Leylo, > Your design seems clear enough, but... What exactly is the problem? It sounds a bit like you're asking 'how do I make my experiment in e-prime', which might require more of the casual or regular list-reader than they are willing to give. Compare this to writing to the cubase (a well-known music composition / production, etc software package) mailinglist, asking 'I have a problem: I want to write a jazzy song in 120 bpm that is catchy. It needs a chorus, three verses and a really cool sax solo. Please solve this for me.'. Chances are people will write back, willing to teach you if you have some spare money, but obviously, they're not immediately inclined to start helping you from scratch. > > So: > 1. read the getting started guide; if you find that a bit too much 'point and click' instead of learning, try some course material (e.g.http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf),   > 2. start writing your experiment, begin with the things you already know how to do (if you still don't know how to do "350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms)", go back to step 1) > 3. notice where exactly you get stuck. Is it the design? List operations? Some kind of coding problem? Crashing? > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo > Sent: 26 March 2010 19:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: forward and backward priming > > Hi folks... > > First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to > everyone who has contributed to this forum...I really learned a lot of > important and interesting stuff here.... > Thanks.... > > Now the problem... > > After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) > forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I'll > be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I > only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. > > Since I'm an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I > should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment > doesn't turn out to be perfectly clear.... I'll certainly do my best... > > In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, > square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 > letters -a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) > > After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) > or a target( duration 600ms). > > If cue is presented before target, there are four different > possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset > of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the > right side of the screen. > > If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after > 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of > the cue remains the same - 200ms). > > Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of > three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in > pseudo-random order. > > Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I > would really appreciate your help. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 29 18:00:42 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:00:42 -0400 Subject: trigger eye tracker and TMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sara, I don't see any way to do this other than to get out the soldering iron and build a custom cable to spit the signals from your computer's I/O port (e.g., parallel port) and send some bits to one instrument, and other bits to the other instrument. Then you can decide which bits to designate for which instrument, and from there it is merely a matter of writing your program to measure & control those bits as desired. No big deal. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/26/2010 04:48 PM Friday, saraag wrote: >I have a problem, I need to trigger with the same E-prime script a TMS >machine and after 50ms the eye tracker. >actually I think I have two problems: 1) I need to use the same >parallel port and I'm not sure how to do this >2) If I trigger the eye tracker at the same time I need to open the >parallel port and this will result in the triggering of the TMS >machine as well? > >Does anyne can help me? > >Thank you very much >Sara -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 29 18:32:07 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:32:07 -0400 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF03088728@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mich, Did you by any chance mean for step 1 to read, 1) Set exit list to the 15 minutes option ? Otherwise it seems like this just enforces the 46 trial limit in two different ways at once. Also, wouldn't trialnum have to be declared globally? Just checking my understanding in case I missed something. Alternatively, one might set the List to exit at 46 trials, and then use code to enforce the time limit, thus, 1) Create a global time-to-exit variable in the User Script Area: Dim tExit as Long 2) Set Exit List to the 46 trials option. 3) Initialize the time-to-exit in inline code just before the List starts: Const ListTimeLimit as Long = 15 * 60 * 1000 tExit = Clock.Read + ListTimeLimit 4) In another inline within every trial, check whether the List time limit has passed and exit the List if this happens: If Clock.Read >= tExit Then MyList.Terminate 'where MyList is the name of your List (or if you prefer to write that in a way that works with any List name, If Clock.Read >= tExit Then _ CList( Rte.GetObject( c.GetAttrib("Running") ) ).Terminate ) Now that I have outlined all that, I think I prefer the first "Exit List set to 15 minutes" approach since that takes care of all the tricky timing issues for you. But I am a die-hard academic and I always like to lay out all the options and mull these things over whenever I code. Finally, I wonder if PST has an example of how to do this in their Samples area on the web? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/29/2010 11:43 AM Monday, you wrote: >Hi Ben, >1) set exit list to the 46 trials option >2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: >Dim trialnum as integer >3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by >inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) >trialnum = trialnum + 1 >4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have >passed and exit list if this happens: >If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. > >... >That's the coding for beginners part, which I >think works better as a tutorial. Far more >elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: > >'Stop running the list after the third trial >If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate > >Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 >Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Test with time limit > >Hi all, > >I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- >prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 >minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants >can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will >jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input >something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 >options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) >Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. > >Thanks a lot for any help!!! > >Regards, >Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 03:26:32 2010 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:26:32 -0700 Subject: stimulus location Message-ID: ,hi groub,I red in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 03:50:37 2010 From: lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com (lamchunpan2108) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:50:37 -0700 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <4bb0f232.5844f10a.7b44.ffffbfd7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear Michiel and David, Thanks a lot for your advices. I finally got it!!!!!! A lot of thanks, Ben On 3月30日, 上午2時32分, David McFarlane wrote: > Mich, > > Did you by any chance mean for step 1 to read, > > 1) Set exit list to the 15 minutes option > ? > > Otherwise it seems like this just enforces the 46 > trial limit in two different ways at once.  Also, > wouldn't trialnum have to be declared > globally?  Just checking my understanding in case I missed something. > > Alternatively, one might set the List to exit at > 46 trials, and then use code to enforce the time limit, thus, > > 1) Create a global time-to-exit variable in the User Script Area: > Dim  tExit as Long > 2) Set Exit List to the 46 trials option. > 3) Initialize the time-to-exit in inline code just before the List starts: > Const  ListTimeLimit as Long = 15 * 60 * 1000 > tExit = Clock.Read + ListTimeLimit > 4) In another inline within every trial, check > whether the List time limit has passed and exit the List if this happens: > If Clock.Read >= tExit Then MyList.Terminate > 'where MyList is the name of your List > (or if you prefer to write that in a way that works with any List name, > If Clock.Read >= tExit Then _ >      CList( Rte.GetObject( c.GetAttrib("Running") ) ).Terminate > ) > > Now that I have outlined all that, I think I > prefer the first "Exit List set to 15 minutes" > approach since that takes care of all the tricky > timing issues for you.  But I am a die-hard > academic and I always like to lay out all the > options and mull these things over whenever I code. > > Finally, I wonder if PST has an example of how to > do this in their Samples area on the web? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 3/29/2010 11:43 AM Monday, you wrote: > > >Hi Ben, > >1) set exit list to the 46 trials option > >2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: > >Dim trialnum as integer > >3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by > >inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) > >trialnum = trialnum + 1 > >4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have > >passed and exit list if this happens: > >If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. > > >... > >That's the coding for beginners part, which I > >think works better as a tutorial. Far more > >elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: > > >'Stop running the list after the third trial > >If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate > > >Cheers, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spapé > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 > >Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Test with time limit > > >Hi all, > > >I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- > >prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 > >minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants > >can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will > >jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input > >something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 > >options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) > >Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. > > >Thanks a lot for any help!!! > > >Regards, > >Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 10:08:53 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:08:53 +0100 Subject: forward and backward priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Leylo, No problem, looking back on it, I thought it was actually a bit overly snarky in my way of putting it so I'm happy you didn't take it as such. Still, I didn't see the design as overly complicated (though only from a programming point of view, statistically, it sounds like a beast to analyse), it's just that no problem as such was stated! Good thing the lack of problem was solved anyway :) Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo Sent: 29 March 2010 16:54 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: forward and backward priming Hi Michiel, I already solve the problem. It's really unbelievable, but right after that I read my post, I knew what I'm supposed to do. I think that the problem was in the description of experiment that I was given..... it was so complicated and incomplete , that I myself couldn't understand what should I do.... Anyway, thank you so much for your reply, and for your analogies that always make me laugh :-) Thanks On Mar 29, 12:52 pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Leylo, > Your design seems clear enough, but... What exactly is the problem? It sounds a bit like you're asking 'how do I make my experiment in e-prime', which might require more of the casual or regular list-reader than they are willing to give. Compare this to writing to the cubase (a well-known music composition / production, etc software package) mailinglist, asking 'I have a problem: I want to write a jazzy song in 120 bpm that is catchy. It needs a chorus, three verses and a really cool sax solo. Please solve this for me.'. Chances are people will write back, willing to teach you if you have some spare money, but obviously, they're not immediately inclined to start helping you from scratch. > > So: > 1. read the getting started guide; if you find that a bit too much 'point and click' instead of learning, try some course material (e.g.http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf),   > 2. start writing your experiment, begin with the things you already know how to do (if you still don't know how to do "350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms)", go back to step 1) > 3. notice where exactly you get stuck. Is it the design? List operations? Some kind of coding problem? Crashing? > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo > Sent: 26 March 2010 19:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: forward and backward priming > > Hi folks... > > First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to > everyone who has contributed to this forum...I really learned a lot of > important and interesting stuff here.... > Thanks.... > > Now the problem... > > After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) > forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I'll > be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I > only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. > > Since I'm an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I > should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment > doesn't turn out to be perfectly clear.... I'll certainly do my best... > > In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, > square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 > letters -a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) > > After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) > or a target( duration 600ms). > > If cue is presented before target, there are four different > possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset > of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the > right side of the screen. > > If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after > 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of > the cue remains the same - 200ms). > > Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of > three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in > pseudo-random order. > > Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I > would really appreciate your help. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 09:58:53 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:58:53 +0100 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <4bb0f232.5844f10a.7b44.ffffbfd7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Yeah, absolutely right... for a stepwise instruction it was pretty sloppy! Cheers, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 29 March 2010 19:32 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Test with time limit Mich, Did you by any chance mean for step 1 to read, 1) Set exit list to the 15 minutes option ? Otherwise it seems like this just enforces the 46 trial limit in two different ways at once. Also, wouldn't trialnum have to be declared globally? Just checking my understanding in case I missed something. Alternatively, one might set the List to exit at 46 trials, and then use code to enforce the time limit, thus, 1) Create a global time-to-exit variable in the User Script Area: Dim tExit as Long 2) Set Exit List to the 46 trials option. 3) Initialize the time-to-exit in inline code just before the List starts: Const ListTimeLimit as Long = 15 * 60 * 1000 tExit = Clock.Read + ListTimeLimit 4) In another inline within every trial, check whether the List time limit has passed and exit the List if this happens: If Clock.Read >= tExit Then MyList.Terminate 'where MyList is the name of your List (or if you prefer to write that in a way that works with any List name, If Clock.Read >= tExit Then _ CList( Rte.GetObject( c.GetAttrib("Running") ) ).Terminate ) Now that I have outlined all that, I think I prefer the first "Exit List set to 15 minutes" approach since that takes care of all the tricky timing issues for you. But I am a die-hard academic and I always like to lay out all the options and mull these things over whenever I code. Finally, I wonder if PST has an example of how to do this in their Samples area on the web? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/29/2010 11:43 AM Monday, you wrote: >Hi Ben, >1) set exit list to the 46 trials option >2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: >Dim trialnum as integer >3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by >inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) >trialnum = trialnum + 1 >4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have >passed and exit list if this happens: >If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. > >... >That's the coding for beginners part, which I >think works better as a tutorial. Far more >elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: > >'Stop running the list after the third trial >If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate > >Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 >Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Test with time limit > >Hi all, > >I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- >prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 >minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants >can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will >jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input >something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 >options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) >Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. > >Thanks a lot for any help!!! > >Regards, >Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 14:57:04 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:57:04 -0700 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 15:47:24 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:47:24 +0100 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: Hi group, I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 To: E-Prime Subject: stimulus location ,hi groub,I red in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 16:07:29 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:07:29 +0100 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF03088AD6@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sorry, I missed a line in there! "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: stimulus location Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: Hi group, I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 To: E-Prime Subject: stimulus location ,hi groub,I red in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From carlynlds at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 18:06:11 2010 From: carlynlds at gmail.com (Carlyn Friedberg) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:06:11 -0300 Subject: Tobii+E prime 2 Message-ID: Hello, Has anyone had any trouble with Tobii eye-trackers and E-Prime 2 communicating? When we try to run an experiment in e-prime 2, the experiment crashes and the Tobii does not eyetrack. Any suggestions? We had this problem arise after updating e-prime 2 to a newer version of e-prime 2. many thanks! Carlyn -- Carlyn Friedberg Laboratory for Developmental Studies Harvard University carlyn at wjh.harvard.edu 617.384.8357 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 22:58:09 2010 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:58:09 -0700 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF03088AE8@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I'm sorry, I'm not a native English speaker , my first Arab. My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. On 30 مارس, 18:07, Michiel Spape wrote: > Sorry, I missed a line in there! > > "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" > > Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape > Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: stimulus location > > Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: > > Hi group, > I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. > > ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 > To: E-Prime > Subject: stimulus location > >  ,hi groub,I red >    in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research > about   Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of > visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that > any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5  degrees > of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.- إخفاء النص المقتبس - > > - عرض النص المقتبس - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 23:00:42 2010 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:00:42 -0700 Subject: the suitable radius of a circle Message-ID: My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 08:02:32 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:02:32 -0700 Subject: Two different responses within the same object Message-ID: Hi! I have posted here on a very similar issue about one week ago, no one answered it then :) but I hope that now, when my question is much more focused I will get some assistance So, it goes like that- in my experiment subjects response vocally to the stimulus. As it may be that in part of the trials their voice will not cross the minimum voice-magnitude threshold to be considered as response (and lowering the threshold is of course not an ideal or full solution) I also ask participants to press the left click of the mouse while giving their vocal response. Thats mean that I need two RTs to be recorded from the same object (stimulus slide) and that if voice response was given first then only mouse input will be considered as second response and vice versa. So, it means that if their is mouse/voice response then the voice/ mouse input is now being deactivated. That the first RT is being immediately stored in new attribute (named first RT)-that the name of the device which is connected with this first RT is also inserted to different attribute. And that the slide now record new RT from the device that didn't response yet (and that RT is being added to the first RT to have the real time for the second RT). The all issue is that E-prime help is pretty bad written so it's hard to understand or find what command responsable to what. The online samples (multiple response and etc)just don't seem to provide soultion to the experiment I described here. So, any help would be appreciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 08:48:37 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:48:37 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: <382b0dca-3e90-4fb5-9036-422ab4d7d043@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: There probably better ways to solve this, but this is what I tried. Get the VASModified.es and replace the SlideText with SlideImage on the Slide and point them to an Attribute in a list. Name them Row11, Row12 etc. Go thru the inlines and replace every line with ‘Text’ to ’Image’. Also, in the inlines, change every ‘BackColor’ to ‘BorderColor’. Set the border width in the sub properties of the images. You can also change color so that the border is not seen while unchecked (looks better). Remember that if you ad SlideImages you must define them in the inlines. /Jens On 29 mar, 17:07, "pan_w... at yahoo.Fr" wrote: > Return > > Thank you to Lens and David for your answers ... > > I'm back here and Im sorry to ask for so simple thing but I need help > because  support PST  should be overloaded, I did not get answers > after almost 10 days... > > For me the handling of documents with EPRIME (Users Guide) went well > but there is some simple thing that I can't resolve with the books... > but I'd like to just do the simplest thing in the world... but I m > lost... > > What I want to do is to present in the same time 4 pictures of phones > in a slideobject (these 4 photos are subobject.) and I would like that > the subjects make a choice by clicking on their favorite image (and I > need that this choice 'inscribe in the database, in dependant > variable). There is a function "tag" to record VD but unfortunately > not much to subobjects ... > > I try to do something and modify the likert 7 scale but... error and > error... > > I try to search something about the hitTest but Im looking for more > informations... > > So I try here, If someone knows about that... THANKS > > Pierre -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 10:06:22 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:06:22 +0100 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Okay, so the question is whether one would be able to read a 2.5 degrees letter that is placed 2.5 degrees from fixation? So, unless my calculations are horribly off, that is 2.19 cm (about an inch, for imperial readers) given a distance to the screen of about 50 cm, right (quite possibly wrong)? If I got this right, anyway, and given that you use such a large letter, I see no reason why someone wouldn't be able to read it, as long as the letter in question is Latin or a similar simple script. Here's the relevant part of the user guide (p A-34), for those wondering: "The location of the stimulus can have a powerful effect on both RT and error rates. Visual acuity drops quickly as stimuli are moved away from the fovea—the narrow area of vision straight ahead that is about 2° wide. A person with 20/20 vision in the fovea will typically have about 20/80 vision 2.5° from straight-ahead. At 10° from straight ahead most people have worse than 20/300 vision. To put this in perspective, at a viewing distance of 57 cm (22.5”), each centimeter is about 1° of visual angle, so a letter displayed 2.5 cm (about 1”) from fixation will be seen quite poorly." ... but that depends rather on the size of the letter - whether it is 'seen' quite poorly. Furthermore, there's plenty of paradigms where seeing things quite poorly is exactly what you'd want (subliminal or near-subliminal priming, for instance) and in other cases, eye-movements are permitted (visual search, usually). What's the paradigm you're working on? Best, Mich (not natively from Notts) Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 30 March 2010 23:58 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: stimulus location I'm sorry, I'm not a native English speaker , my first Arab. My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. On 30 مارس, 18:07, Michiel Spape wrote: > Sorry, I missed a line in there! > > "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" > > Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape > Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: stimulus location > > Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: > > Hi group, > I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. > > ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 > To: E-Prime > Subject: stimulus location > >  ,hi groub,I red >    in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research > about   Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of > visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that > any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5  degrees > of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.- إخفاء النص المقتبس - > > - عرض النص المقتبس - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 13:45:15 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:45:15 -0700 Subject: extracting vectors of stimulus onsets for fmri software Message-ID: Hi, I was hoping to benefit from the experience of someone who uses e- prime for fmri experiments and analyzes their data in SPM (or any other software that requires input of vectors of stimulus onsets). What is the simplest way to get vectors of stimulus onsets to SPM for event related analyses (given that you have multiple stimulus types)? So far, I have a variable created that gives the onset time of each stimulus relative to the start of the scan. Then, I also have multiple variables (one for each stimulus type) that give the onset times of particular stimulus types in seconds. Unfortunately, though, when a given stimulus occurs, its onset time is recorded in one of these multiple variables whereas all other of these variables recieve a blank space (by design). With this setup, I can copy and paste one of these variables into SPM as a vector of onset times for a given stimulus type and manually delete the spaces mentioned above -- what a pain! There must be an easier way! For example, can I export a text file that contains a vector of the stimulus onset times for a single stimulus type (without spaces for trials where that stimulus type did not occur)? Thanks, Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 31 13:55:27 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:55:27 -0400 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You should take this up with your graduate advisor, and consult the relevant psychology research textbooks. This is not a question about E-Prime, it is a question about visual acuity and its effect on psychology experiments in general, and your experiment in particular. No one here can tell whether or not 2.5 degrees of visual angle will be detrimental to your particular experiment. So I repeat, please take this to your graduate advisor. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Tue 3/30/2010 ashraf wrote: > I'm sorry, I'm not a native English speaker , my first Arab. > My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be > seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. > > > On 30 مارس, 18:07, Michiel Spape > wrote: >> Sorry, I missed a line in there! >> >> "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" >> >> Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. >> >> Michiel Spapé >> Research Fellow >> Perception & Action group >> University of Nottingham >> School of Psychology >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape >> Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 >> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: stimulus location >> >> Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: >> >> Hi group, >> I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. >> >> ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills >> Best, >> Mich >> >> Michiel Spapé >> Research Fellow >> Perception & Action group >> University of Nottingham >> School of Psychology >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >> Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 >> To: E-Prime >> Subject: stimulus location >> >> ,hi groub,I red >> in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research >> about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of >> visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that >> any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees >> of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 31 14:23:37 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: Two different responses within the same object In-Reply-To: <45cc8002-569e-4dd0-80b7-f9a995bf2880@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: OK, I understand you a little better this time, so I will try a brief response. Basically, just before your Slide, you also add a Wait object with Duration = 0. Have your Wait object get one response, and your Slide get the other. For the purpose of discussion, let's assign the voice key to the Wait object and the mouse to the Slide object, allow 2 sec for either response, and keep the stimulus Slide up for 2 sec even with a response. Then your structure might look something like - StimWait: Duration = 0, Input Mask = SRBox, Time Limit = 2000, End Action = (none) - StimSlide: Duration = 2000, Input Mask = Mouse, Time Limit = 2000, End Action = (none) Things get a little trickier if you want either of the responses to terminate the stimulus, but I will leave that as an exercise. In general, you can do all sorts of interesting things in E-Prime by using short Durations, long PreReleases, and long Time Limits ("extended input") to overlap objects, on top of using multiple input masks within single objects. Now if only the E-Prime documentation would actually help us here instead of hinder us. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder gilis wrote: > Hi! > > I have posted here on a very similar issue about one week ago, no one > answered it then :) > but I hope that now, when my question is much more focused I will get > some assistance > > So, it goes like that- in my experiment subjects response vocally to > the stimulus. As it may be that in part of the trials their voice will > not cross the minimum voice-magnitude threshold to be considered as > response (and lowering the threshold is of course not an ideal or full > solution) I also ask participants to press the left click of the mouse > while giving their vocal response. > > Thats mean that I need two RTs to be recorded from the same object > (stimulus slide) and that if voice response was given first then only > mouse input will be considered as second response and vice versa. > > So, it means that if their is mouse/voice response then the voice/ > mouse input is now being deactivated. That the first RT is being > immediately stored in new attribute (named first RT)-that the name of > the device which is connected with this first RT is also inserted to > different attribute. And that the slide now record new RT from the > device that didn't response yet (and that RT is being added to the > first RT to have the real time for the second RT). > > The all issue is that E-prime help is pretty bad written so it's hard > to understand or find what command responsable to what. The online > samples (multiple response and etc)just don't seem to provide soultion > to the experiment I described here. So, any help would be appreciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 31 14:54:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:54:25 -0400 Subject: extracting vectors of stimulus onsets for fmri software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, Two thoughts -- - After the experiment, export your data to Excel, and write an Excel macro to recombine the data and create whatever vectors you like. Or, if you prefer something like Perl, once again use E-DataAid to export your data in some suitable text format, then script away! - During the experiment, use c.SetAttrib in inline code to have E-Prime directly generate whatever data columns you like. Either of these ways would involve some programming. Note that E-Prime and Excel both use Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), so familiarity with either platform will help with the other (although you still have to get familiar with the specific object model of each platform). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > I was hoping to benefit from the experience of someone who uses e- > prime for fmri experiments and analyzes their data in SPM (or any > other software that requires input of vectors of stimulus onsets). > > What is the simplest way to get vectors of stimulus onsets to SPM for > event related analyses (given that you have multiple stimulus types)? > > So far, I have a variable created that gives the onset time of each > stimulus relative to the start of the scan. Then, I also have multiple > variables (one for each stimulus type) that give the onset times of > particular stimulus types in seconds. Unfortunately, though, when a > given stimulus occurs, its onset time is recorded in one of these > multiple variables whereas all other of these variables recieve a > blank space (by design). With this setup, I can copy and paste one of > these variables into SPM as a vector of onset times for a given > stimulus type and manually delete the spaces mentioned above -- what a > pain! There must be an easier way! > > For example, can I export a text file that contains a vector of the > stimulus onset times for a single stimulus type (without spaces for > trials where that stimulus type did not occur)? > > Thanks, > Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From h.witherstone at googlemail.com Wed Mar 31 19:02:13 2010 From: h.witherstone at googlemail.com (Hannah Witherstone) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:02:13 -0700 Subject: Trouble playing sound files Message-ID: I am very new to E-Prime so please bare with me! I have run through the 'getting started' manual and all of the tutorials within. I have successfully completed Tutorial 2 which pairs the sound files 'Bob' and 'Linda' with images. I need to create my own experiment which pairs a static image with a sentence (will more than likely be recorded in .mp3 format), to which the participant has to press the space bar when they hear a key word within the sentence. I need the reaction time (in ms) to this target word. For some reason I cannot get E-Prime to run my own sound files. I can make my own experiment and use the Bob and Linda .wav files provided with E-Prime, but when I try and substitute these file names for anything else the experiment crashes. I get varying error messages, all relating to the script line: "Slide1_SoundBuffer.Load". The most common error message is: Run-time Error (Line 263) 18005: Cannot load sound file "hello.wav" Mismatched or invalid block alignment I *think* this is due to the sound file format set-up in the Experiment Object Properties (where you can select channels, samples and bits per sample). I have tried every possible combination in this section and still cannot get my files to play. This is the case when I use various .mp3, .wma and .wav formats. I can play all of the files fine through my laptop, so I know the sound files are OK. Any help would be much appreciated as the manual is of no use! Hannah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From j.keidel at bangor.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 20:57:41 2010 From: j.keidel at bangor.ac.uk (James Keidel) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:57:41 +0100 Subject: extracting vectors of stimulus onsets for fmri software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hey if you have a variable with the onset times, you could also have a variable with the condition for each time. copy these both into excel, sort by the condition variable, then paste the times for each condition into spm...it's not perfect but probably easier than what you are doing. otherwise, like david said, write an excel macro to remove empty space in a column; there are examples of this online. within eprime, you could search the e-basic help for file handling and have a little piece of script that wrote out files for each condition; done correctly this file could be loaded directly into spm via a matlab command and you would not have to deal with the gui much at all. JK On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Jim wrote: > Hi, > > I was hoping to benefit from the experience of someone who uses e- > prime for fmri experiments and analyzes their data in SPM (or any > other software that requires input of vectors of stimulus onsets). > > What is the simplest way to get vectors of stimulus onsets to SPM for > event related analyses (given that you have multiple stimulus types)? > > So far, I have a variable created that gives the onset time of each > stimulus relative to the start of the scan. Then, I also have multiple > variables (one for each stimulus type) that give the onset times of > particular stimulus types in seconds. Unfortunately, though, when a > given stimulus occurs, its onset time is recorded in one of these > multiple variables whereas all other of these variables recieve a > blank space (by design). With this setup, I can copy and paste one of > these variables into SPM as a vector of onset times for a given > stimulus type and manually delete the spaces mentioned above -- what a > pain! There must be an easier way! > > For example, can I export a text file that contains a vector of the > stimulus onset times for a single stimulus type (without spaces for > trials where that stimulus type did not occur)? > > Thanks, > Jim > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From t1msky at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 1 12:36:40 2010 From: t1msky at yahoo.co.uk (Victor) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 04:36:40 -0800 Subject: display slide image from an array Message-ID: Hi, I have a feedback slide that I want to display a random image from an array but I get the error 'filename on imagedisplay has not been set' and I do not understand why. I have a list with cards card(1) = "aceclubs" and so on.. Before the feedback slide I have dim x as integer x = random(1,52) if slide1.cresp = "m" 'when correct response is on the right imageright = card(x) c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" end if I have used this sort of code before and it has always worked so I am confused as to why it doesnt work now. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Victor -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 1 12:58:12 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:58:12 -0000 Subject: display slide image from an array In-Reply-To: <1f0111d3-1f13-4892-8a1a-a49e23444aeb@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Your code is full of errors, it seems! I bet you anything this code didn't work before, actually... " if slide1.cresp = "m" 'when correct response is on the right imageright = card(x) c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" end if" 1. I assume your slide1 has imagedisplay with filename [imageR], yes? What happens with incorrect responses 2. Why is there a quotation mark after imageright? 3. Why do you refer to .cresp? Could be you mean this, but I often get students who get confused between the difference between .resp, .cresp and allowable... Anyway, Make a blank image, (with MSPAINT!), save it as blank.bmp, then do: if slide1.cresp = "m" 'if cresp is m c.setattrib "imageR", card(random(1,52)) 'no need for imageright else c.SetAttrib "imageR", "blank.bmp" end if" Always specify an image, even if it is blank - that way, you can ensure the timing is the same :) Also, be prepared for the inevitable unexpected response (i.e. use else and such). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor Sent: 01 March 2010 12:37 To: E-Prime Subject: display slide image from an array Hi, I have a feedback slide that I want to display a random image from an array but I get the error 'filename on imagedisplay has not been set' and I do not understand why. I have a list with cards card(1) = "aceclubs" and so on.. Before the feedback slide I have dim x as integer x = random(1,52) if slide1.cresp = "m" 'when correct response is on the right imageright = card(x) c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" end if I have used this sort of code before and it has always worked so I am confused as to why it doesnt work now. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Victor -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From t1msky at yahoo.co.uk Mon Mar 1 14:00:53 2010 From: t1msky at yahoo.co.uk (Victor) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 06:00:53 -0800 Subject: display slide image from an array In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02D6B22D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks for the speedy response Michiel :) I included references to CRESP as there are only two possible responses and so I had an else statement already in place to turn over random left card if correct was on left, with the opposing card that was not correct set to another image. My code actually worked I had just referenced the wrong slide (slide1 not 2-doh!) which is why it was not working. However, your suggestions for more elegant brief coding has been incorporeated into the experiment scripts. Thanks, Victor On Mar 1, 12:58?pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Your code is full of errors, it seems! I bet you anything this code didn't work before, actually... > > " if slide1.cresp = "m" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'when correct response > is on the right > imageright = card(x) > c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" > end if" > > 1. I assume your slide1 has imagedisplay with filename [imageR], yes? What happens with incorrect responses > 2. Why is there a quotation mark after imageright? > 3. Why do you refer to .cresp? Could be you mean this, but I often get students who get confused between the difference between .resp, .cresp and allowable... > > Anyway, Make a blank image, (with MSPAINT!), save it as blank.bmp, then do: > > if slide1.cresp = "m" ? ? ? 'if cresp is m > ? ? ? ? c.setattrib "imageR", card(random(1,52)) 'no need for imageright > else > ? ? ? ? c.SetAttrib "imageR", "blank.bmp" > end if" > > Always specify an image, even if it is blank - that way, you can ensure the timing is the same :) Also, be prepared for the inevitable unexpected response (i.e. use else and such). > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Victor > Sent: 01 March 2010 12:37 > To: E-Prime > Subject: display slide image from an array > > Hi, > > I have a feedback slide that I want to display a random image from an > array but I get the error 'filename on imagedisplay has not been set' > and I do not understand why. > > I have a list with cards > > card(1) = "aceclubs" and so on.. > > Before the feedback slide I have > > dim x as integer > x = random(1,52) > > if slide1.cresp = "m" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'when correct response > is on the right > imageright = card(x) > c.setattrib "imageR", imageright" > end if > > I have used this sort of code before and it has always worked so I am > confused as to why it doesnt work now. Any help would be appreciated, > thanks, > > Victor > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 1 16:46:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 08:46:54 -0800 Subject: display slide image from an array In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mar 1, 9:00?am, Victor wrote: > My code actually worked I had just referenced the wrong slide (slide1 not 2-doh!) Another case example of why I insist that users give a meaningful name to each and every object as soon as they create it, rather than accepting the names automatically generated by E-Studio! Oh, and don't feel stuck with your initial names, feel free to keep changing the names of your objects as you get a clearer idea of each object's nature in your program during development -- I often go through three rounds or so of renaming objects, attributes, and variables just to make them as apt as possible. Cheers, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 17:06:04 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:06:04 -0800 Subject: determing the size of the Image Message-ID: Hi all, Is there any method to set the size of an image to certain dimensions (different or similar to the real size of the image)-say that I have image of rectangle with one side of it subtending to 5 cm and the other rib to 10 cm-and I want to be sure that E-prime would present it in this exact size (ration 1:1) or that it will stretch one rib to 7 cm and shrink the other to 8 cm..how can I do that using E-prime? Thanks Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 1 18:02:50 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:02:50 -0500 Subject: determing the size of the Image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Gilis, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... Seems to me this came up just week, and I offer the same answer: Take a look at the Stretch property. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Is there any method to set the size of an image to certain dimensions >(different or similar to the real size of the image)-say that I have >image of rectangle with one side of it subtending to 5 cm and the >other rib to 10 cm-and I want to be sure that E-prime would present it >in this exact size (ration 1:1) or that it will stretch one rib to 7 >cm and shrink the other to 8 cm..how can I do that using E-prime? >Thanks >Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From lunakick at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 12:55:07 2010 From: lunakick at yahoo.com (Luna) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 04:55:07 -0800 Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? Message-ID: Hello e-primers, I have copied a bit of the script for the gender array selection box from the main script to use for a list of provoking comments to sent to an 'opponent'. Although, one can use the mouse to select the gender, in my array of choices, the mouse is not usable. As a result, one has to scroll through the list of comments using the up and down keys on the keyboard, which is really not sophisticated. I want my program to look sophisticated, of course. Can anyone help? I've tried copying the code that initiates the mouse, but that did not work. Thanks very much. -Luna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 2 14:17:16 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:17:16 -0000 Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? In-Reply-To: <7e18ae9f-c9ab-42ab-b609-6461c3a4a950@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, It's pretty simple, I just found out myself! Just go to edit>experiment>devices>mouse edit properties, set show cursor to true. Once you don't want to show the cursor any more, just have an inline saying Mouse.ShowCursor false Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Luna Sent: 02 March 2010 12:55 To: E-Prime Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? Hello e-primers, I have copied a bit of the script for the gender array selection box from the main script to use for a list of provoking comments to sent to an 'opponent'. Although, one can use the mouse to select the gender, in my array of choices, the mouse is not usable. As a result, one has to scroll through the list of comments using the up and down keys on the keyboard, which is really not sophisticated. I want my program to look sophisticated, of course. Can anyone help? I've tried copying the code that initiates the mouse, but that did not work. Thanks very much. -Luna -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From nickfraenkel at googlemail.com Tue Mar 2 18:11:56 2010 From: nickfraenkel at googlemail.com (Nick F) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:11:56 -0800 Subject: SoundIn problems: "Unable to find sound capture device" In-Reply-To: <4b6b19e4.5244f10a.49e8.26fbSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Sorry I'm slow replying. It turns out the solution is quite simple: in order to enable sound recording (and use the SoundIn object) in E- Prime, you need to enable the SoundCapture device in the experiment (Experiment -> Devices -> Add -> SoundCapture). I'd managed to miss this when I looked through the New Features guide - thought I'd post this here in case anyone else has the same problem. While I'm here, I might as well clarify another quirk of the SoundIn object. It turns out that regardless of when you stop the SoundIn object, the WAV file it writes will always be the full length of the SoundIn object's buffer (the remaining duration will be silent). I asked PST Web Support about this and they say that at the moment there is no way round this. Not necessarily a huge problem, but it does mean that response data can end up taking up vastly more disk space than is really necessary. I got round this problem by converting everything to mp3 (since, as I understand it, silences - however long - should make a negligible difference to file size when encoded to mp3). Since the SoundIn object also currently always writes in stereo (even from a mono input), I also converted back to mono when encoding to mp3, which should halve file sizes as well. For anyone who wants to do this, I recommend LamedropXPD - a very small, easy-to-use batch mp3 encoder, which has a 'Mono encode' checkbox. This allowed me to reduce 128MB of sound recordings to 4MB, with no audible loss of quality (I encoded at 192 kbps). Of course, anyone trying this would be wise to make sure that all the resulting mp3s are useable before they delete the original WAVs... Anyway, just thought I'd post all that in case anyone else is having any of the same problems I had - hope it's of some use to someone. Thanks again, Nick On Feb 4, 7:02?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Nick, > > Please submit this to PST Web Support athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, they strive > to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. ?Then please do us a favor > and post back here with the result. > > Also, you might try upgrading to EP2.0.8.73 (Pro), any registered > user can download that for free from the PST web site. ?Glad to see > that you are still on XP, many of us have had trouble running EP2 > under Vista, and I have not gotten any confirmed reports yet on > whether 2.0.8.73 or Win7 fix that. > > Thanks, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I'm trying to set up an experiment using the SoundIn object to record > >participants' responses. The problem I'm having is that every time I > >try to run or generate, I receive the following error message: > > >"A Fatal Error occurred while generating the initialization code for > >the E-Object named 'SoundIn1' > >Error Message: Unable to find sound capture device. Ensure that a > >sound capture device is available." > > >I've tried with both an external USB audio-recording soundcard and the > >computer's internal soundcard, and I get the same error with both. > >There doesn't seem to be any problem with the soundcards: E-Prime's > >SoundOut object will play without complaint using either card, and I'm > >able to record audio input in software other than E-Prime. > > >If anyone has any experience of getting E-Prime to work with audio > >input, I'd be very grateful for any suggestions as to what might work. > > >Here is my set-up: > > >E-Prime 2.0.8.22 Professional / Windows XP > >Edirol UA-25 USB soundcard > > >Many Thanks, > > >Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com Tue Mar 2 18:52:57 2010 From: alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com (Alex) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 10:52:57 -0800 Subject: using attributes to set the Weight? Message-ID: Hello, I have a Trial List with 4 levels, corresponding to 4 different conditions. I want to present the first condition (i.e., the first level in the list) a varying number of times during a given cycle. So essentially, rather than having the Weight for the first level set to a fixed number, I would like to use an attribute in the Weight column that refers to another variable, e.g., [WeightNumber]. However, E- Prime won't let me use attributes in this column (I am using E-Prime 1.1, I don't know if this is possible in version 2). I have tried inserting an inline code just before the TrialList in order to set the Weight: TrialList.setWeight "1", c.getAttrib("WeightNumber") This doesn't work at all; the Weight appears to remain the default number 1. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com Tue Mar 2 19:15:08 2010 From: alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com (Alex) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:15:08 -0800 Subject: using attributes to set level Weight? Message-ID: Hello, I have a Trial List with 4 levels, corresponding to 4 different conditions. I want to present the first condition (i.e., the first level in the list) a varying number of times during a given cycle. So essentially, rather than having the Weight for the first level set to a fixed number, I would like to use an attribute in the Weight column that refers to another variable, e.g., [WeightNumber]. However, E- Prime won't let me use attributes in this column (I am using E-Prime 1.1, I don't know if this is possible in version 2). I have tried inserting an inline code just before the TrialList in order to set the Weight: TrialList.setWeight 1, c.getAttrib("WeightNumber") TrialList.reset This doesn't work at all; the Weight appears to remain the default number 1. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 2 19:51:27 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 14:51:27 -0500 Subject: using attributes to set level Weight? In-Reply-To: <8ceec728-c0e0-462f-91c3-d5077ce07fc9@t31g2000prh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Alex, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... First, in this respect EP2 works the same as EP1.1. Just the same, I do not understand why anyone persists in running EP1.1 when they can easily download & install EP1.2, which may fix some problems in EP1.1 as well as add more capability. Second, if you look more carefully, you will almost certainly discover that EP *did* change the weight of your List level. However, it just did not change the total number of levels run, i.e., the .ResetCondition or .TerminateCondition. If you look at the full generated code, you will see a pair of lines in InitObjects() such as Set TrialList.TerminateCondition = Cycles(1) Set TrialList.ResetCondition = Samples(2) You need to add some lines like this in your inline code. For instance, when in my own example I changed the weight of level 1 from 1 to 2, that changed the total levels to run to 3, so I used the following inline code: TrialList.SetWeight 1, c.GetAttrib( "WeightNumber" ) Set TrialList.ResetCondition = Samples(3) TrialList.Reset Of course, getting the correct number of levels to run can be tricky, but you can take it from there. (Note also that EP does not provide a List.GetWeight method to help you, as documented at http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic1244-5-1.aspx .) -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >I have a Trial List with 4 levels, corresponding to 4 different >conditions. I want to present the first condition (i.e., the first >level in the list) a varying number of times during a given cycle. So >essentially, rather than having the Weight for the first level set to >a fixed number, I would like to use an attribute in the Weight column >that refers to another variable, e.g., [WeightNumber]. However, E- >Prime won't let me use attributes in this column (I am using E-Prime >1.1, I don't know if this is possible in version 2). >I have tried inserting an inline code just before the TrialList in >order to set the Weight: > TrialList.setWeight 1, c.getAttrib("WeightNumber") > TrialList.reset >This doesn't work at all; the Weight appears to remain the default >number 1. >Does anyone have any ideas? >Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From maryesmith at gmail.com Tue Mar 2 20:09:30 2010 From: maryesmith at gmail.com (mary) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:09:30 -0800 Subject: Way to put images in separate folder than eprime file? Message-ID: Just tried searching and couldn't find anything on this. It's just so messy to have to keep all the image files in the same folder as the eprime e-studio files. I tried putting the Filename as a directory followed by the attribute name but that ran into problems with what I assume is regular expressions because when I put \ in front of them it ran. For example, I put: EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName] at first as my Filename, but when I tried to run, the script came out saying the Filename was: B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles[AttributeName") So I changed my Filename to be: EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\\[AttributeName\]" And it started to run successfully but then failed, and when I looked it was now displaying my Filename as: B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName]\"" Is there any way to do this?? What's going on here.... Thanks for the help, Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From v.lim at auckland.ac.nz Tue Mar 2 20:24:26 2010 From: v.lim at auckland.ac.nz (Vanessa Lim) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 12:24:26 -0800 Subject: onsetsignalenabled for eeg Message-ID: Hi, Sorry I have posted this on the eprime forum but no replies and David suggested this group, I have also sent a message to eprime directly but that was over a week ago. Many thanks! ******** For over 10 years our lab has been using writeport address, val (values from 0 to 15). However, recently I was testing our equipment and found in the PST knowledge base about the On and OffSetSignalEnabled code which looks better than the writeport because you aren't waiting for the screen refresh. I am doing a simple visual (and would like to test auditory later) paradigm for testing. 2 pictures (from a previous eprime example), with same ISI but different pre-releases. I have 4 conditions in this block - red car (StimTrig1 = 1); blue car (StimTrig1 = 2); ISITrig150: for red car = 6; for blue car = 10; (I found that having the same value for ISITrig150 6 for example meant that the Stimulus Trigger for the next stimulus wouldn't come up) Port is defined at the beginning of the experiment CONST Port = &H378 I defined StimTrig1 and ISITrig150 in the TrialList attributes, the trial procedure is inline code below and then ISI2 (text display) and Stimulus2 (ImageDisplay, vertical blank on) DIM trigOnCodeISI as Integer DIM trigOnCodeStim as Integer DIM trigOffCode as Integer trigOnCodeISI = CInt (c.GetAttrib ("ISITrig150")) trigOnCodeStim = CInt (c.GetAttrib ("StimTrig1")) trigOffCode = 0 ISI2.OnsetSignalEnabled = True ISI2.OnsetSignalPort = Port ISI2.OnsetSignalData = trigOnCodeISI ISI2.OffsetSignalData = True ISI2.OffsetSignalPort = Port ISI2.OffsetSignalData = trigOffCode Stimulus2.OnsetSignalEnabled = True Stimulus2.OnsetSignalPort = Port Stimulus2.OnsetSignalData = trigOnCodeStim Stimulus2.OffsetSignalData = True Stimulus2.OffsetSignalPort = Port Stimulus2.OffsetSignalData = trigOffCode This code is really unreliable, sometimes I get 1's and 2's and at the beginning of the ISI even though I had commented out the Stimulus Trig code and even deleted it from the inline. I will sometimes get only the first trigger as 10 and then it drops to 8 for the rest (if I use sequential). I have tried putting only the code for the ISI before the ISI and code for the stimulus in between the ISI2 and Stimulus2 objects and this does not help. I am unsure why my code is unreliable, the stimuli are on for 400 ms, ISI is 500 ms. Any suggestions please? Am I using this code correctly? Many thanks, Vanessa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 2 20:22:04 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:22:04 -0500 Subject: Way to put images in separate folder than eprime file? In-Reply-To: <830f49ea-b12b-4f19-8561-8fc953b30c98@z10g2000prh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Mary, Thanks for trying the search first. I suspect you just did not know what exact search terms to use. You are struggling with the intricacies of the "file path separator" in E-Prime, so search again using terms such as "file path", "path name", or "path separator", and search both the E-Prime Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime ) and the PST Forum (http://support.pstnet.com/forum ), you will come upon past discussions and full explanations (note also that the PST KB article on this does not quite get it right). Regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/2/2010 03:09 PM Tuesday, you wrote: >Just tried searching and couldn't find anything on this. It's just so >messy to have to keep all the image files in the same folder as the >eprime e-studio files. I tried putting the Filename as a directory >followed by the attribute name but that ran into problems with what I >assume is regular expressions because when I put \ in front of them it >ran. For example, I put: > >EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName] > >at first as my Filename, but when I tried to run, the script came out >saying the Filename was: > >B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles[AttributeName") > >So I changed my Filename to be: > >EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\\[AttributeName\]" > >And it started to run successfully but then failed, and when I looked >it was now displaying my Filename as: > >B1_SlideImage.Filename = "EprimeFolder\jpgFiles\[AttributeName]\"" > > >Is there any way to do this?? What's going on here.... >Thanks for the help, >Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From saultsj at missouri.edu Wed Mar 3 05:37:38 2010 From: saultsj at missouri.edu (J Scott Saults) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 23:37:38 -0600 Subject: How can I refer to the currently running object in an inline? In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02D6B66E@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sorry, my question got cut off (thought it's in the topic) I can set a variable to refer to a running list: Dim theList as List Set theList = CList(Rte.GetObject(c.GetAttrib("Running"))) I also can assign a variable to refer to a list if I know its name (StimDisplay): Dim theResponseObject As RteRunnableInputObject How can I know the currently running object so that an inline, running during it's prerelease, can reference and use it's attributes (duration, keyboardMask, etc). I want to be able to copy and move an inline to follow different objects without changing and 'hard coding' the name of the object in the script each time. (Sorry for the repeated posting) Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From saultsj at missouri.edu Wed Mar 3 05:06:17 2010 From: saultsj at missouri.edu (J Scott Saults) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 23:06:17 -0600 Subject: How can I refer to the currently running object in an inline? In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02D6B66E@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Surely there's a way, but I haven't figured this out. I can set a variable to refer to a running list: Dim theList as List Set theList = CList(Rte.GetObject(c.GetAttrib("Running"))) I also can assign a variable to refer to a list if I know its name (StimDisplay): Dim theResponseObject As RteRunnableInputObject Set theResponseObject = CRteRunnableInputObject(Rte.GetObject("StimDisplay")) How can I (or can I) refer to whatever object (text, image, or slide dispaly) is running during the prerelease time that includes the inline? I want to be able to move my inline behind any presentation object with a prerelease so it will run, using attributes of the running object, without me having to 'hard code' the name of the object each time I move or copy the inline. Thanks in advance for any advice or information. I'm still don't understand much about Ebasic object data types -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 3 14:57:33 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:57:33 -0500 Subject: How can Scott refer to the currently running object in an inline? Message-ID: J Scott Saults wrote: > I can set a variable to refer to a running list: > Dim theList as List > Set theList = CList(Rte.GetObject(c.GetAttrib("Running"))) > I also can assign a variable to refer to a list if I know its name > (StimDisplay): > Dim theResponseObject As > RteRunnableInputObject > > How can I know the currently running object so that an inline, running > during it's prerelease, can reference and use it's attributes (duration, > keyboardMask, etc). I want to be able to copy and move an inline to > follow different objects without changing and 'hard coding' the name of > the object in the script each time. > > Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 3 14:53:17 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:53:17 -0500 Subject: How do I turn the mouse on? In-Reply-To: <257D9D8B-C523-45C2-B8AD-B34EAF20B65E@missouri.edu> Message-ID: PLEASE folks, do *NOT* try to start a new thread by simply doing an e-mail "reply" to an existing thread and then changing the subject line!! This just messes up the thread structure of the existing thread on Google Groups, as you can see for yourself at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/75838ffbbf64a05b . Instead, please start a brand new, blank e-mail message, address it to e-prime at googlegroups.com, and go from there. I am restoring this thread to Luna's original title of "How do I turn the mouse on?", and I will try to repost Scott's question under a new thread. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On 3 Mar 2010 J Scott Saults wrote: > Surely there's a way, but I haven't figured this out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com Wed Mar 3 17:58:49 2010 From: alexandra.frischen at googlemail.com (Alex) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 09:58:49 -0800 Subject: Access samples & cycles in inline code Message-ID: Hi there, There didn't seem to be any option to post a reply to that particular discussion board, so I'm re-posting the original question along with the solution: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Eliezer Kanal >Date: May 5 2008, 6:06 pm >Subject: Access samples & cycles in inline code >To: E-Prime > > >Hello folks - > >I would like to display a message to my subjects telling them that I >have completed "X of Y blocks", where X is the current sample/cycle/ >combination of both that we're up to, and Y is the total number of >sample/cycle/combinations of both that they'll complete. Is there some >way to find that (I'm imagining something like >List1.GetAttrib("CurrentCycle") or something). Thanks! > >Eliezer Kanal Solution: to access the current cycle: c.getAttrib("myList.cycle") to access the current sample: c.getAttrib("myList.sample") -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:48:01 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:48:01 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:28:35 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" Subject: [DMDX] article on LCD monitors Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Here's a good article on LCD monitors and their characteristics and the differences between the various ways you can measure their speeds. It's from a gaming perspective but that doesn't matter, what's good for gaming is good for DMDX. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-parameters.html /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ "He was so narrow minded he could see through a keyhole with both eyes ..." At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:50:00 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:50:00 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 14:10:31 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" Subject: [DMDX] TFT (or LCD) displays caveat emptor Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu As I was testing a LCD display (alternatively called an TFT or Flat Panel display) here I came across another previously unconsidered dimension of them that is a very serious consideration in their use as tachistoscopic display devices. And that is that the LCDs all have a digital signal processor (DSP) in them sitting between the computer's output and the pixels of the display and the speed of that processor can interfere with tachistoscopic displays. For instance when I first started testing this LCD the script I chose was using a 1024x768 display mode whereas the native resolution of this panel is 1600x1200. So the DSP has to take the 1024x768 signal and stretch it onto the 1600x1200 array of pixels that actually constitutes the display. It turns out that this device can't keep up with even a moderately fast tachistoscopic display and was producing tearing at even pedestrian 4 tick displays. I was toggling the background color between black and white and despite DMDX detecting no display errors I could plainly see tearing on the display. Once I realized what was up and switched DMDX to using the native resolution of the panel the tearing went away. So one must be very careful to use the native resolution of an LCD when using DMDX. A further consideration that hasn't been tested yet but is likely to be the case is that my monitor is using a DVI cable and not the old 15 pin analog VGA cable that most displays are using. The DVI cable is used here because high resolution displays (ie 1600x1200 and beyond) start to jitter and have all sorts of nasty problems. Because the same DSP mentioned above has to take the analog video signal and process it it stands a very good chance of running into the same problems mentioned above. So even if someone was using the native resolution of the panel the use of an analog signal cable could very well introduce the same sorts of tearing problems. Fortunately this is relatively easy to detect without additional test equipment beyond the human eye. Basically toggle the background color at a rate DMDX can handle without display errors and you should see an even flickering display. If you see periodic horizontal discontinuities then your LCD has a problem. f30 d3 0 "display tearing test" ; 3 %4 / ; 0 "end" l; /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ Any given program, once running, is obsolete. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:51:04 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:51:04 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:08:43 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "j.c.f." X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [DMDX] LCD flat panel displays and experiments Subject: [DMDX] LCD flat panel displays and experiments Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu --------------------------------------------------------------- I've noticed several machines in the last couple of weeks running DMDX with flat panel displays in the department, no great surprise as it's getting pretty challenging to buy a machine with a CRT. Just buying stand alone CRTs is challenging. But people need to be aware that using an LCD flat panel is not the same thing as using a CRT is as far as experimental displays are concerned, regardless of whether you're using DMDX or some other program. If you're not really interested in accurate display timing you can hit control D now and I apologize for the interruption to your email reading experience. However those of you that are interested in tachistoscopic displays, masked priming and anything else measuring RTs down to tens of milliseconds and less need to be aware that an LCD flat panel's display is going to be lagged by some arbitrary and variable amount of time unless the video mode that is being used is exactly the native resolution of the display. Worse, it can skip whole retraces of displayed data. This applies to laptops as well as desktops, however it's faintly possible given a laptop's integration the problem may not be so acute. Wouldn't surprise me if it was just as acute, put it that way. So a 17" flat panel really needs to use 1280x1024, a 20" one 1600x1200 and so on. It gets worse, recently I've seen two sets of displays that both accept 60, 70 and 75 Hz displays. One set of them didn't even display things properly at 70 Hz (which is fine, you'd hardly miss it) but one set only worked properly without lag and dropped frames at 60 Hz and the other set only at 75 Hz. I'm updating the TimeDX documentation to make the steps clearer but it's basically a matter of getting the Refresh Rate's display to be smooth. A sure but counter intuitive sign that you haven't got the right settings is TimeDX being able to correctly determine the retrace interval (as that test was designed to do) but having the display flicker. Here the hardware that TimeDX is looking at is fine and it's able to be timed correctly but the monitor on the end of all that that TimeDX doesn't have access to is doing it's own rendering of what it's being sent and taking it's own sweet time to do it and dropping frames as it needs to when it's too slow. So they can be made to work as scientific instruments, they just take more work and only run at one display mode and refresh rate. To date anyway, who knows what tomorrow may bring ;) /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ Standard parts are not. - Murphy's Technology Laws www.murphys-laws.com At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:48:47 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:48:47 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" Subject: [DMDX] LCD monitors Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu For those of you concerned about LCD monitors and their effect on tachistoscopic displays this is an interesting article: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/pcworld/20050722/tc_pcworld/121906 /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ What makes the universe so hard to comprehend is that there's nothing to compare it with. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:45:33 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:45:33 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:59:30 -0700 To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "Jonathan C. Forster" X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [DMDX] article on LCDs Subject: [DMDX] article on LCDs Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- AnandTech has another extensive LCD article and while portions of it dwell on image quality other portions go into some detail on lag and response time of panels (and they test 8 or so of them) so anyone thinking of using LCD displays would do well to read the article: http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3584&p=1 /"\ -jonathan (j.c.f.) \ / X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN - AGAINST HTML MAIL / \ Trying to be happy is like trying to build a machine for which the only specification is that it should run noiselessly. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Thu Mar 4 14:40:24 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 06:40:24 -0800 Subject: CRT vs. LCD Message-ID: I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color values might differ from what you programmed. However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for LCDs you do. So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful discussion. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pquain at une.edu.au Thu Mar 4 14:47:04 2010 From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:47:04 +1100 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu From: "j.c.f." X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [DMDX] LCD display lag Subject: [DMDX] LCD display lag Reply-To: DMDX at psy1.psych.arizona.edu Sender: DMDX-owner at psy1.psych.arizona.edu ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- Was reading AnandTech's Holiday 2008 Display Guide and ran across a worrying reference to lag in some panel types: http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3480 The long and the short of it is that it appears that more expensive LCD panel technology appears to come with built in lag. My guess is that this is probably because the panel massages the display data even when it's at the panel's native resolution as these are panels that designed for desktop publishers and small color deviations are noticed by those people. I emailed the author to make sure he was using the native resolutions in his testing and he was so at this stage I would be avoiding the nicer PVA displays and instead sticking with the cheaper TN displays. At 01:40 AM 5/03/2010, you wrote: >I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about >display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments >because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color >values might differ from what you programmed. >However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought >about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given >moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. >you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see >it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos >made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 >ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for >LCDs you do. > >So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and >what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful >discussion. > >Cheers, >Tobias > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Mar 4 16:27:56 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 16:27:56 -0000 Subject: CRT vs. LCD In-Reply-To: <2afb552b-babc-45e0-b881-3edb1c75c1cb@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: One thing though: "you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly." Psychologists, like me, like to bring the brain into the picture (if not, the mind), but (correct me if I'm wrong - I tend to forget my high school knowledge!) the eyes (or at least the cones in the retina) can't 'see' the difference either. The important thing for many an experiment, therefore, is not whether the stuff stays on the screen for X ms, but whether it stays on the retina for as long - show a word for 20 ms on whatever monitor, followed by a blank screen, and you can easily read it. Show the same word, but now with a nice mask after it - not so much. Anyway, I use CRT screens, as long as I can still get them (don't know if that will be too long), usually at 100 Hz. I'm doing a lot of experiments with circles and whatnot moving across the screen, running at a semi-perpetual loop at 100 Hz, so it kind of matters what screen I use (though it doesn't matter much, I guess, as people don't see much of a difference between 100 Hz moving (my experiment), 50 Hz (TV, I think?) and 25 Hz (Flash default). Also, if you like to save stuff at each refresh (say, eye tracking data, mouse cursor position during a continuous response experiment), it starts getting important just how often this is. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Sent: 04 March 2010 14:40 To: E-Prime Subject: CRT vs. LCD I had a discussion yesterday with a collegue from another lab about display types. I am always using CRT displays for my experiments because they have higher refresh rates and no decay in which color values might differ from what you programmed. However, this guy was bringing forward an argument I have not thought about so far: For LCDs you have a stable overall picture at any given moment. A CRT display virtually draws one point after another, i.e. you never see an entire, let's say circle but your brain makes you see it as the point and lines are drawn so rapidly. I was shown photos made by a digital camera with really short shutter times (less than 5 ms) and for CRT displays you can never see entire stimuli whereas for LCDs you do. So I was wondering what kind of display you are using in your labs and what your experiences are. Maybe there will develop a fruitful discussion. Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 5 14:05:59 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 06:05:59 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x Message-ID: Hi together, I am wondering whether there is a way of using a Joystick in E-Prime 1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is given... Cheers, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 5 14:54:57 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 09:54:57 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tobias, Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: - EP1 can use only joystick buttons, not position, and then only via the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d362d9f276 ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could still get joystick position through a game port if you added sufficient inline code.) - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of the joystick functionality available directly through the E-Studio GUI. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am wondering whether there is a way of using a Joystick in E-Prime >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is >given... > >Cheers, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From joyce.humphries1 at googlemail.com Fri Mar 5 15:12:39 2010 From: joyce.humphries1 at googlemail.com (Joyce Humphries) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:12:39 +0000 Subject: Terminating sounds effects after participant responds to 10 items Message-ID: Hi All, I was wondering if someone could offer some advice with an eprime experiment that we are currently trying to set up. It's a face recognition experiment. During the learning phase participants will view 4 different groups of faces and with each group a different sound file will be played. During the test phase is where the problem arises. Participants are required to respond to ten faces while a particular sound track plays in the background. Participants can take as long as they like to respond so there is no time limit. However, once a participant has responded to all 10 images we need the sound track that is currently playing to terminate and a new sound track to begin for the second set of faces that will be shown. However, this is where our problem arises, instead of the sound track finishing it simply plays over the new track. Any advice on how to terminate the first track before the second track starts? We have four separate trails in the recognition (test) phase each with a different track playing. We would really appreciate any advice Best wishes J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 5 15:35:03 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 10:35:03 -0500 Subject: Terminating sounds effects after participant responds to 10 items In-Reply-To: <1f64b571003050712m60bb0f27icd1a5def7ab1df39@mail.gmail.com > Message-ID: J, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... Take a look at the SoundOut.Stop topic in the online E-Basic Help. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I was wondering if someone could offer some advice with an eprime >experiment that we are currently trying to set up. > >It's a face recognition experiment. During the learning phase >participants will view 4 different groups of faces and with each >group a different sound file will be played. During the test phase >is where the problem arises. Participants are required to respond to >ten faces while a particular sound track plays in the background. >Participants can take as long as they like to respond so there is no >time limit. However, once a participant has responded to all 10 >images we need the sound track that is currently playing to >terminate and a new sound track to begin for the second set of faces >that will be shown. However, this is where our problem arises, >instead of the sound track finishing it simply plays over the new >track. Any advice on how to terminate the first track before the >second track starts? We have four separate trails in the recognition >(test) phase each with a different track playing. > >We would really appreciate any advice > >Best wishes >J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Mar 5 17:40:58 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:40:58 -0000 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <4b911b99.5844f10a.2db1.75fbSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to emulate a mouse with a joystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like this: http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarchive.org/) Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x Tobias, Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: - EP1 can use only joystick buttons, not position, and then only via the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d362d9f276 ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could still get joystick position through a game port if you added sufficient inline code.) - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of the joystick functionality available directly through the E-Studio GUI. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am wondering whether there is a way of using a Joystick in E-Prime >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is >given... > >Cheers, >Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From maryesmith at gmail.com Mon Mar 8 16:29:29 2010 From: maryesmith at gmail.com (mary) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 08:29:29 -0800 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video Message-ID: Hi all, I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? Thanks, Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 8 20:23:16 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 15:23:16 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <0765e536-3ce1-4b17-be5e-14f7d0daff07@m37g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Mary, Hmm, I would bet that E-Prime has no way to overlay visual objects over a running video. But you should really submit this to PST's trained staff at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , after all they are the experts and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. Then please post their answer back here for the rest of us! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with >being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it >would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen >for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems >that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of >anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push >the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? > >Thanks, >Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 10:26:46 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:26:46 -0800 Subject: How to download an image without its background In-Reply-To: <429ce550-fe44-4ec6-b019-939a38fd2143@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: just to make it clear-in each trial there are three flankers with one of them appearing in the center. I have 9 different kinds of flankers, selceted randomly in each trail. Dor all of those I don't want Eprime to dowbload their background. On 9 ???, 12:24, gilis wrote: > Hi, > > In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the > center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be > transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem > is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker > itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has > background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. > > I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that > will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the > background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I > just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with > canvasing. > > Would be very very grateful for help on this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 10:53:23 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:53:23 +0000 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <0765e536-3ce1-4b17-be5e-14f7d0daff07@m37g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Mary, The answer by David McFarlane is right* - video stimuli are always displayed in front of anything else while running. It seems possible to overlay something else over a video on a Slide or Feedback object, then move the video to the back. But when the stimuli are displayed the video always plays in front. I suspect you've discovered the warning message to this effect when trying to send a movie to the back on a slide object: "SlideMovie components selected were sent to back to permit for easier Slide component editing, but at runtime Movie components are always presented on top of all SlideText and SlideImage objects". One solution could be to edit the video files themselves - this seems like a possibility if the alteration is simple (like a fixation cross at a fixed location in all your video files). *except concerning David's disclaimer mentioning the target response times for E-Prime support requests placed online. Based on a handful of online support requests by me and other colleagues in the past month or two, the current queue for first response is about 5 working days. -david > I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with > being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it > would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen > for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems > that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of > anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push > the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? > -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 10:48:50 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:48:50 -0000 Subject: How to download an image without its background In-Reply-To: <429ce550-fe44-4ec6-b019-939a38fd2143@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, You seem to really like canvas... I remember you had another problem with err, uploading an image, and thought canvas would help there as well :) I assume you can do such things with canvas programming, but the answer is far easier. Have a look at the transparency property in the help files: take a slide, insert a picture there with, as you say, a white background, change its transparency property to transparent, its source colour to white, use source colour to yes, and bingo: every white pixel is replaced by whatever is presented underneath this image. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis Sent: 09 March 2010 10:24 To: E-Prime Subject: How to download an image without its background Hi, In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with canvasing. Would be very very grateful for help on this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 10:24:19 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:24:19 -0800 Subject: How to download an image without its background Message-ID: Hi, In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with canvasing. Would be very very grateful for help on this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 11:05:59 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 03:05:59 -0800 Subject: How to download an image without its background In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02EB1C3B@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I realy shoud buy you a present :) On 9 ???, 12:48, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > You seem to really like canvas... I remember you had another problem with err, uploading an image, and thought canvas would help there as well :) I assume you can do such things with canvas programming, but the answer is far easier. Have a look at the transparency property in the help files: take a slide, insert a picture there with, as you say, a white background, change its transparency property to transparent, its source colour to white, use source colour to yes, and bingo: every white pixel is replaced by whatever is presented underneath this image. > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of gilis > Sent: 09 March 2010 10:24 > To: E-Prime > Subject: How to download an image without its background > > Hi, > > In my experiment I use flankers. One of those should appear in the > center of the display, in the middle of the stimulus. It have to be > transparent obviously so the stimulus could be seen fully. The problem > is that I can't create flanker image which contain only the flanker > itself, without background. So it maens that the flanker has > background (white) which cover part of the stimulus. > > I was thinking that maybe there is away to insert inline command that > will upload the flanker image from the folder-but with out the > background. Meaning that it will upload anything that is not white. I > just don't know how to do that, I assume that it's involved with > canvasing. > > Would be very very grateful for help on this. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 9 16:16:22 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:16:22 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4B9628A3.4070706@ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mary, As an exercise, I explored this myself further using some typical non-Slide techniques for superimposing (overlaying) visual stimuli in E-Prime: (1) setting the movie/slide object Duration to 0, StopAfter to No, and following this with a regular Text object with a limited Frame size/position and BackStyle = transparent; (2) using a normal Duration on the movie/slide object, setting PreRelease the at least as long as Duration, and following that with inline code to display the text (e.g., Text.Draw or Canvas.Text). In both cases, even though my text by design clearly did *not* go to the screen until *after* the movie started, and the movie did continue to play, the movie immediately overwrote my text display (I was careful to make the text and movie frames overlap in such a way that I could still see a portion of the text beyond the edge of the movie window). And when you think about it, this all makes sense. Remember, a movie presents a rapid *sequence* of images, one frame at a time. So if you try to put a static text or image in the same space, as soon as the movie moves on to its next frame it *must* overwrite your "overlay"! I do not see any way to overcome this except to edit your overlay directly into the movie file (as David V suggest), or to incorporate sophisticated on-the-fly video mixing facilities directly into the software, much as you might find in a modern television studio. Personally, this goes beyond anything I would ask of E-Prime, although for all I know something like MatLab can already do this. Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly video mixing... -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Mary, > >The answer by David McFarlane is right* - video stimuli are always >displayed in front of anything else while running. >It seems possible to overlay something else over a video on a Slide >or Feedback object, then move the video to the back. But when the >stimuli are displayed the video always plays in front. > >I suspect you've discovered the warning message to this effect when >trying to send a movie to the back on a slide object: "SlideMovie >components selected were sent to back to permit for easier Slide >component editing, but at runtime Movie components are always >presented on top of all SlideText and SlideImage objects". > >One solution could be to edit the video files themselves - this >seems like a possibility if the alteration is simple (like a >fixation cross at a fixed location in all your video files). >*except concerning David's disclaimer mentioning the target response >times for E-Prime support requests placed online. Based on a handful >of online support requests by me and other colleagues in the past >month or two, the current queue for first response is about 5 working days. > >-david >>I'm running E-Prime 2.0 Standard, and I've run into a problem with >>being able to display anything in front of a video. For example, it >>would be nice to display a fixation cross in the middle of the screen >>for the duration of our experiment which contains videos. It seems >>that the default is set to make any videos appear on the top of >>anything else that may be on the MovieDisplay. Is there a way to push >>the movie to the back so text can be displayed over it? >> > > >-- >David Vinson, Ph.D. >Postdoctoral Researcher >Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department >University College London >49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD >Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) >d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 16:26:39 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:26:39 +0000 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4b9674c7.5944f10a.3276.ffffc69eSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide don't work nicely either. David McFarlane wrote: > Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies on > one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly video > mixing... Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame host manager. -dv -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From morgbri at gmail.com Tue Mar 9 16:45:04 2010 From: morgbri at gmail.com (Bri Morgan) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 08:45:04 -0800 Subject: Error Message Help Message-ID: Hello - We are trying to create an experiment in which a slide accepts only alphanumeric responses. Allowable keys are {NUMBERS} and {SPACE}. We are using the {SPACE} to move to the next slide and the {NUMBERS} as a recorded response. We have the Max Count set to 3, so it can accept double digits and the space bar. We a re receiving an error message when a subject presses the space bar without pressing a numerical response first. Here is the script where the error occurs. OfferOK: If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then Err.Clear Resume OfferOKResume ElseIf Err.Number <> 0 Then 'NOTE: If you receive a runtime error here, it ' is because a runtime error other than ebInputAccepted ' was thrown (ebInputAccepted for catching input masks that jump). 'You are encouraged to either handle the error so that ' it is not thrown in the future or will have to set up ' your own error handler, which will also need to take ' into account for any input masks that jump. ' 'Raise the error so the default error handler will show the message Err.Raise Err.Number, Err.Source, Err.Description End If Please let me know if you have any suggestions or if there is any more information I can provide. Thank you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 9 16:49:01 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 11:49:01 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4B9676BF.10600@ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: David V, Ah, but you made it further than I did -- still using EP2.0.8.22, it disabled the SlideMovie icon in E-Studio as soon as I added one SlideMovie, so never even got to try multiple movies on one Slide (unless I would manually construct that in inline code, but I did not go that far :) ). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide >don't work nicely either. > >David McFarlane wrote: >>Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies >>on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly >>video mixing... >Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. >Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame host manager. > >-dv > >-- >David Vinson, Ph.D. >Postdoctoral Researcher >Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department >University College London >49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD >Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) >d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 16:53:56 2010 From: d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk (David Vinson) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 16:53:56 +0000 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4b967c45.5344f10a.18b7.ffffd3d7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David M - I too am running 2.0.8.22. This appears to be another of those Pro vs Normal (Amateur?) differences - a Pro experiment permits multiple videos on a single slide (as long as they are not overlapping), a normal 2.0 experiment only allows one. -dv David McFarlane wrote: > Ah, but you made it further than I did -- still using EP2.0.8.22, it > disabled the SlideMovie icon in E-Studio as soon as I added one > SlideMovie, so never even got to try multiple movies on one Slide > (unless I would manually construct that in inline code, but I did not > go that far :) ). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >> A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide >> don't work nicely either. >> >> David McFarlane wrote: >>> Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping movies >>> on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of on-the-fly >>> video mixing... >> Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. >> Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame host >> manager. >> >> -dv >> -- David Vinson, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Researcher Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department University College London 49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 9 17:27:51 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 12:27:51 -0500 Subject: Display text (or anything) in front of a video In-Reply-To: <4B967D23.4000002@ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: David V, Thanks. But, um, I am running EP2 Pro, and I do not see any capability there to run multiple videos on a Slide, whether or not they overlap. Indeed, at http://www.pstnet.com/eprime.cfm PST does claim that EP2 Pro can "Play multiple movies simultaneously on critical timing trials", but until another user can testify to that or PST sends me a working demo, I consider that to be just another one of their many empty promises. And since you bring up the issue of names for the two editions... Originally PST used "E-Prime 2.0 Professional" to refer to the Pro edition, and just plain "E-Prime 2.0" to refer to the non-Pro edition, which left us no way to refer to EP2 in a non-specific way and as you might imagine led to considerable confusion. PST has since relented and now officially calls the non-Pro version "Standard". This is an improvement, but I still object that what they call "Standard" is not, well, standard. The true standard is Pro, and non-Pro is only for those in special circumstances. I searched for my own alternative term and I too wanted to call non-Pro something like Baby or Amatuer (which I find just a bit too perjorative) or Basic (which then gets confused with the language BASIC). I sort of settled on calling the non-Pro version "Base", in the sense of a capable base model that nevertheless lacks enough amenities that no one seriously buys it (rather like the "base" model offered by automobile manufacturers). Sadly, now that PST officially calls it "Standard", if I start referring to "Base" then no one will know what I am talking about. Hence, as ugly and confusing as it is, I keep referring to Pro vs. non-Pro. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >David M - >I too am running 2.0.8.22. This appears to be another of those Pro >vs Normal (Amateur?) differences - a Pro experiment permits multiple >videos on a single slide (as long as they are not overlapping), a >normal 2.0 experiment only allows one. > >-dv > >David McFarlane wrote: >>Ah, but you made it further than I did -- still using EP2.0.8.22, >>it disabled the SlideMovie icon in E-Studio as soon as I added one >>SlideMovie, so never even got to try multiple movies on one Slide >>(unless I would manually construct that in inline code, but I did >>not go that far :) ). >> >>-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >>>A side point but worth mentioning, overlapping videos on a slide >>>don't work nicely either. >>> >>>David McFarlane wrote: >>>>Hmm, but if E-Prime would allow playing multiple overlapping >>>>movies on one Slide then that would itself add a fair degree of >>>>on-the-fly video mixing... >>>Overlapping movies on one slide = crash in my experience, e.g. >>>Run-time Error 11036: Unable to update working surface in frame >>>host manager. >>> >>>-dv > > >-- >David Vinson, Ph.D. >Postdoctoral Researcher >Cognitive, Perceptual and Brain Sciences Research Department >University College London >49 Gordon Square, London, WC1H 0PD >Tel +44 20 7679 5311 (UCL internal x25311, alternate x28694) >d.vinson at ucl.ac.uk >-- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Wed Mar 10 16:45:49 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:45:49 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list Message-ID: Hi forum members! I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of the 9 images randomly from a nested list. So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all the messages concerning this topic, including this one http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85e5a9b7d (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right pictures). So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith confirming that it points to the correct nested list). And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be possible in my opinion). I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! With kind regards, Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 20:33:55 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 12:33:55 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <8856bc5c-e93a-4725-9287-74f4db2458eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Vera I see that you really researched well and you found all the 'elements' you need, but you didn't use them in a way that works so far. I must say that e-prime might not be the single most excellent program to create a visual search task in... although I also wouldn't know what program to better use. One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! Forget about the collumn referencing and the pointing towards procedureslists first and then to nested lists.. you don't need it. That's exactly the kind of programming that you don't want to use ;) Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In each level of this list you can make a different combination of stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] [stim2] ... [targetstim]. So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 for instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). Not sure if that will work.. think it should. I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let me know. Best liw On Mar 10, 5:45?pm, Vera wrote: > Hi forum members! > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > pictures). > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > possible in my opinion). > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > With kind regards, > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Wed Mar 10 21:55:48 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:55:48 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <56b22727-7f61-49e3-b821-a396bf4b0258@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) Just a few comments on what you wrote: > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 attributes (9 columns basically)? > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 ?for > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But then again, I think that there will be too many combinations possible. > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > me know. Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let you know. :) Greetings, Vera > > Best > > liw > > On Mar 10, 5:45?pm, Vera wrote: > > > Hi forum members! > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 23:16:30 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:16:30 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Vera, Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed solution. There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and then filling the triallist. Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145914a543/9a190bab1a34fa8f I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were seeking for a programming-free solution. best, liw On Mar 10, 10:55?pm, Vera wrote: > Hi Liwenna, > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 ?for > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > then again, I think that > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > me know. > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > you know. :) > > Greetings, > > Vera > > > > > Best > > > liw > > > On Mar 10, 5:45?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > pictures). > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > With kind regards, > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 23:25:12 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:25:12 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <5f04960c-cbbe-4f9d-86ea-bc9509988334@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar to your latest idea. The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it to fill a triallist. Hope it helps! On Mar 11, 12:16?am, liwenna wrote: > Hey Vera, > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > solution. > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > then filling the triallist. > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > best, > > liw > > On Mar 10, 10:55?pm, Vera wrote: > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 ?for > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > then again, I think that > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > me know. > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > you know. :) > > > Greetings, > > > Vera > > > > Best > > > > liw > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 10 23:31:43 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:31:43 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: and this thread could be of help too... http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c26100f8d2bc it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 target and 15 distractors . On Mar 11, 12:25?am, liwenna wrote: > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > to your latest idea. > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > to fill a triallist. > > Hope it helps! > > On Mar 11, 12:16?am, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Vera, > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > solution. > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > then filling the triallist. > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > best, > > > liw > > > On Mar 10, 10:55?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 ?for > > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > > then again, I think that > > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > > me know. > > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > > you know. :) > > > > Greetings, > > > > Vera > > > > > Best > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > > pictures). > > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 00:07:07 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:07:07 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <6e893dcf-c810-425e-a245-fd44a2c8851e@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get some help. :) Take care, Vera On Mar 11, 12:31?am, liwenna wrote: > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > target and 15 distractors . > > On Mar 11, 12:25?am, liwenna wrote: > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > to your latest idea. > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > to fill a triallist. > > > Hope it helps! > > > On Mar 11, 12:16?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > solution. > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > best, > > > > liw > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 ?for > > > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > > > then again, I think that > > > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > > > me know. > > > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > > > you know. :) > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > Vera > > > > > > Best > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > > > pictures). > > > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 12:49:04 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:49:04 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <86485896-dd61-4ea8-9265-99a3ef5cbaec@d27g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Vera, I couldn't let go and I kinda overdid it a bit but here is an extensive post that I think should help you out. What you do want to control is the number of times the target appears at each location. You have nine locations, so you make 9 levels in your triallist and create all the combinations of targetstimulus and targetlocations (x and y values) in that list (attributenames: targetstim for the picturename, targetx and targety). In this list you also create the attribute for the 8 distractorstimpictures (disstim1, disstim2 etc) but not fill these cells. Once the x and y of the target are defined the distractorstimuli automatically should get the other 8 x and y values so also create attributes for the x and y values of the distractors in this list (dis1x, dis1y, dis2x, dis2y etc.) and fill them with the remaining 8 x and y values for each level. Now you can have 9 imageobjects in your slide that refer to [targetstim], [disstim1], [disstim2] etc. and also to the x and y values for each stim in the list: [targetx] [targety], [dis1x], [dis1y], [dis2x] etc. The only cells not filled yet are the cells that define the picturenames of the distractorstimuli (disstim1, distim2 etc in your triallist). These cells can be filled by adjusting the code referred to above from a random array. Something like the below thing should work (didn't test this one out in e-prime however as I am at home today). Place this code in an inline on the procedure on which your triallist is.... so... on your experimentprocedure you should make a blocklist with a blockprocedure and on the blockprocedure you place this in an inline in front of the triallist which you also place on the blockprocedure. The inline fills the 9 levels of the triallist and then the procedure proceeds to run the triallist. By setting the blocklist to repeat a x number of times, the procedure that contains the triallist-filling-inline as well as the triallist itself (set the triallist to run once but random!) will be run an x number of times and on each run the triallist will receive new random distractors. Explanation of the code: disarray is the array that holds the distractorstimulinames and is as big as the number of stimuli you have... say you have 4 different stimuli (blue circle, yellow circle, blue square, yellow square) this is array has 4 levels and because 0 is also a level it is defined as disarray(3). Each level of the array (number between brackets) is filled with a filename and then the array is randomized. Then m refers to level numbers. In the 'codeline' "triallist.SetAttrib m", m can be 1, 2, 3 etc up to 9 as we have 9 levels (nine positions of the target). The code For m = 1 to 9 makes eprime repeat the code that is between that line and the line 'next m' 9 times, each time replacing m in the inbetween code. A similar array is used to randomise the stimattribute into which each filename is placed. We have attributes called disstim1, disstim2 etc, so we need to manipulate the identifying numbers randomly. For that we create an array with 8 levels (randomposarray(7) ) and fill it with the numbers 1 to 8. I understood from your post that in each trial 2 distractors will be used four times, so the code fills four of the 'stimx' cells with the filename that is in level 0 of the randomized array, and another four with the filename that is in level 1 of the array. After filling level m = 1 it restarts from 'for m = 1-9' and goes to fill level m=2. At restarting from 'for m = 1 to 9' it rerandomizes the arrays before it starts filling the random-n cells of disstim with the new (because rerandomizing the array) filenames that are in level 0 and 1 of the array. The two arrays are best created on the usertab of the scriptwindow. There you place the following lines: ************ *create an array to hold your 4 (? otherwise adjust) distractor filenames and another one that holds the 8 identifying numbers of the 8 distractor stimuli. dim disarray(3) as string dim randomposarray(7) as integer ************ The rest goes in the inline preceding the triallist. Although placement kinda depends on your needs... if you use one target troughout the experiment the filling of the arrays can also be done on the usertab or you could move both the dim array lines and the filling lines to a place in the beginning of your experiment. If you want different blocks with different targets you'll have to refill the distractorarray each time the target changes (cause then automatically the distractors change too). Just make sure that e-prime does not have to repeat the dim-lines, cause it doesn't like that. *************inlinecode******* *fill the distractorarray with the filenames. disarray(0) = stimname1.png disarray(1)= stimname2.png disarray(2)=stimname3.png disarray(3)=stimname4.png * fill randomposarray with the numbers 0 -7 randomposarray(0) = 1 randomposarray(1) = 2 randomposarray(2) = 3 randomposarray(3) = 4 randomposarray(4) = 5 randomposarray(5) = 6 randomposarray(6) = 7 randomposarray(7) = 8 *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be filled. for m = 1-9 *at the beginning of filling each level, first randomize the arrays that hold the filenames and the identifying numbers of each distractor. randomizearray disarray randomizearray randomposarray *Four disstims get the filename that is in level 0 of the array. Which four is defined by the randomized randomposarray: first we fill the stims that have the numbers that are now in the first *four levels of randomposarray (levels 0-3, replaced by n in this line of code) for n = 0-3 triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(0) next n *the second four disstims (the numbers are given by levels 4 to 7 of randomposarray) get the filename that is in level 1 of the distractorarray for n = 4-7 triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(1) next n *when e-prime gets here 1 level (m) of the triallist is filled and it goes back to 'for m = 1 to 9' to do the next m. next m when all m (9) levels are filled it wil start running the triallist (as this is next on the blockprocedure). ************endofcode******** That all said... in the old paper and pencil days visual search tasks weren't randomized either... -_- Good luck! liw On Mar 11, 1:07?am, Vera wrote: > Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) > > Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure > go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started > "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other > solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how > far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get > some help. :) > > Take care, Vera > > On Mar 11, 12:31?am, liwenna wrote: > > > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > > target and 15 distractors . > > > On Mar 11, 12:25?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > > to your latest idea. > > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > > to fill a triallist. > > > > Hope it helps! > > > > On Mar 11, 12:16?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > > solution. > > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > > best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > > > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make > > > > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1] > > > > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim]. > > > > > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we > > > > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with > > > > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4 > > > > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which > > > > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the > > > > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of > > > > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9 > > > > > attributes (9 columns basically)? > > > > > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures > > > > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made > > > > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in > > > > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with > > > > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use. > > > > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the > > > > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68 > > > > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2 ?for > > > > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that > > > > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18 > > > > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go > > > > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y > > > > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their > > > > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc. > > > > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random > > > > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one > > > > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial. > > > > > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it > > > > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But > > > > > then again, I think that > > > > > there will be too many combinations possible. > > > > > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array' > > > > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint.... > > > > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at > > > > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each > > > > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the > > > > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a > > > > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for > > > > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the > > > > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the > > > > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's > > > > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?). > > > > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should. > > > > > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most > > > > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less > > > > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations). > > > > > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let > > > > > > me know. > > > > > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know > > > > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am > > > > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming > > > > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that > > > > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where > > > > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe > > > > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images? > > > > > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only > > > > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you > > > > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly > > > > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well... > > > > > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let > > > > > you know. :) > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Vera > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > On Mar 10, 5:45?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi forum members! > > > > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > > > > pictures). > > > > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > > > > be > > ... > > read more ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 12:51:52 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:51:52 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <0c81e699-924e-4ebb-9d7e-1f741ef4aa12@b30g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: oops... in the comments inbetween the code quite some *'s are missing... for instance in this comment: *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be filled. for m = 1-9 lines 2 and 3 could use a * and only line 4 is actual code. But I guess you can figure it out. On Mar 11, 1:49?pm, liwenna wrote: > Hey Vera, > > I couldn't let go and I kinda overdid it a bit but here is an > extensive post that I think should help you out. > > What you do want to control is the number of times the target appears > at each location. You have nine locations, so you make 9 levels in > your triallist and create all the combinations of targetstimulus and > targetlocations (x and y values) in that list (attributenames: > targetstim for the picturename, targetx and targety). In this list you > also create the attribute for the 8 distractorstimpictures (disstim1, > disstim2 etc) but not fill these cells. Once the x and y of the target > are defined the distractorstimuli automatically should get the other 8 > x and y values so also create attributes for the x and y values of the > distractors in this list (dis1x, dis1y, dis2x, dis2y etc.) and fill > them with the remaining 8 x and y values for each level. Now you can > have 9 imageobjects in your slide that refer to [targetstim], > [disstim1], [disstim2] etc. and also to the x and ?y values for each > stim in the list: [targetx] [targety], [dis1x], [dis1y], [dis2x] etc. > > The only cells not filled yet are the cells that define the > picturenames of the distractorstimuli (disstim1, distim2 etc in your > triallist). These cells can be filled by adjusting the code referred > to above from a random array. Something like the below thing should > work (didn't test this one out in e-prime however as I am at home > today). Place this code in an inline on the procedure on which your > triallist is.... so... on your experimentprocedure you should make a > blocklist with a blockprocedure and on the blockprocedure you place > this in an inline in front of the triallist which you also place on > the blockprocedure. The inline fills the 9 levels of the triallist and > then the procedure proceeds to run the triallist. By setting the > blocklist to repeat a x number of times, the procedure that contains > the triallist-filling-inline as well as the triallist itself (set the > triallist to run once but random!) will be run an x number of times > and on each run the triallist will receive new random distractors. > > Explanation of the code: > disarray is the array that holds the distractorstimulinames and is as > big as the number of stimuli you have... say you have 4 different > stimuli (blue circle, yellow circle, blue square, yellow square) this > is array has 4 levels and because 0 is also a level it is defined as > disarray(3). > > Each level of the array (number between brackets) is filled with a > filename and then the array is randomized. > > Then m refers to level numbers. In the 'codeline' "triallist.SetAttrib > m", m can be 1, 2, 3 etc up to 9 as we have 9 levels (nine positions > of the target). The code For m = 1 to 9 makes eprime repeat the code > that is between that line and the line 'next m' 9 times, each time > replacing m in the inbetween code. > > A similar array is used to randomise the stimattribute into which each > filename is placed. We have attributes called disstim1, disstim2 etc, > so we need to manipulate the identifying numbers randomly. For that we > create an array with 8 levels (randomposarray(7) ) and fill it with > the numbers 1 to 8. > > I understood from your post that in each trial 2 distractors will be > used four times, so the code fills four of the 'stimx' cells with the > filename that is in level 0 of the randomized array, and another four > with the filename that is in level 1 of the array. After filling level > m = 1 it restarts from 'for m = 1-9' and goes to fill level m=2. ?At > restarting from 'for m = 1 to 9' it rerandomizes the arrays before it > starts filling the random-n cells of disstim with the new (because > rerandomizing the array) filenames that are in level 0 and 1 of the > array. > > The two arrays are best created on the usertab of the scriptwindow. > There you place the following lines: > > ************ > *create an array to hold your 4 (? otherwise adjust) distractor > filenames and another one that holds the 8 identifying numbers of the > 8 distractor stimuli. > dim disarray(3) as string > dim randomposarray(7) as integer > ************ > > The rest goes in the inline preceding the triallist. Although > placement kinda depends on your needs... if you use one target > troughout the experiment the filling of the arrays can also be done on > the usertab or you could move both the dim array lines and the filling > lines to a place in the beginning of your experiment. If you want > different blocks with different targets ?you'll have to refill the > distractorarray each time the target changes (cause then automatically > the distractors change too). Just make sure that e-prime does not have > to repeat the dim-lines, cause it doesn't like that. > > *************inlinecode******* > *fill the distractorarray with the filenames. > disarray(0) = stimname1.png > disarray(1)= stimname2.png > disarray(2)=stimname3.png > disarray(3)=stimname4.png > > * fill randomposarray with the numbers 0 -7 > randomposarray(0) = 1 > randomposarray(1) = 2 > randomposarray(2) = 3 > randomposarray(3) = 4 > randomposarray(4) = 5 > randomposarray(5) = 6 > randomposarray(6) = 7 > randomposarray(7) = 8 > > *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with > m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be > filled. > for m = 1-9 > > *at the beginning of filling each level, first randomize the arrays > that hold the filenames and the identifying numbers of each > distractor. > randomizearray disarray > randomizearray randomposarray > > *Four disstims get the filename that is in level 0 of the array. Which > four is defined by the randomized randomposarray: first we fill the > stims that have the numbers that are now in the first *four levels of > randomposarray (levels 0-3, replaced by n in this line of code) > for n = 0-3 > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(0) > > next n > > *the second four disstims (the numbers are given by levels 4 to 7 of > randomposarray) get the filename that is in level 1 of the > distractorarray > for n = 4-7 > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(1) > > next n > > *when e-prime gets here 1 level (m) of the triallist is filled and it > goes back to 'for m = 1 to 9' to do the next m. > next m when all m (9) levels are filled it wil start running the > triallist (as this is next on the blockprocedure). > ************endofcode******** > > That all said... in the old paper and pencil days visual search tasks > weren't randomized either... -_- > > Good luck! > > liw > > On Mar 11, 1:07?am, Vera wrote: > > > Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) > > > Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure > > go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started > > "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other > > solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how > > far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get > > some help. :) > > > Take care, Vera > > > On Mar 11, 12:31?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > > > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > > > target and 15 distractors . > > > > On Mar 11, 12:25?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > > > to your latest idea. > > > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > > > to fill a triallist. > > > > > Hope it helps! > > > > > On Mar 11, 12:16?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > > > solution. > > > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > > > best, > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get > > > > > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track! > > > > > > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;) > > > > > > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they > > > > > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial? > > > > > > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks > > > > > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :) > > > > > > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine > > > > > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial, > > > > > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In > > > > > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of > > ... > > read more ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 11 14:12:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:12:56 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <8856bc5c-e93a-4725-9287-74f4db2458eb@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Vera, Wow, what a discussion this sparked! I think E-Prime can do what you want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any inline code. As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". So if you do not already have this working, here is another homework assignment for you: Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials and work through all of those. That might give you enough ideas to figure it out. But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this thread some time next week and I will post more details on this approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson will "take"). And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although reported response time is currently more like 5 days). If you do contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Mar 10, 11:45?am, Vera wrote: > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > pictures). > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > possible in my opinion). > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > With kind regards, > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 11 14:42:10 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 06:42:10 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vera, Oh, and one more bit of generic programming advice that I repeat here from time to time -- If your actual experiment program has any complexity to it, then set that aside and exercise all your ideas on smaller demo programs that you make just for that purpose, then when you get your techniques worked out just apply those back to your actual experiment program. Everybody (including me) thinks that they can save time by working out fixes directly in their actual experiment programs, and everybody (including me) is wrong about that. You save time by working out the techniques in smaller "exercise" programs, then applying what you learn back to your actual experiment program. This becomes especially true when you have to work out the finer points of E-Prime as "documented" in the online E-Basic Help. As crucial as the online E-Basic Help is to gaining any real understanding of E-Prime, in many many places it is at best misleading, and at worst just plain wrong (not to mention that much of the example code does not even compile), and PST takes no interest in fixing that (I have personally posted several corrections to PST and continue to do so, to almost no avail). So if, like me, you ever have to understand how E-Prime really works, then you will have to make many, many small demo programs in order to overcome the rampant misinformation throughout the documentation. And BTW, this is where PST Web Support comes in. Many of us have the old-fashioned notion that Support is a last resort. But as a result of discussions with PST staff I now understand that PST Web Support is their substitute for adequate documentation. So once again, I urge everyone to get over your inhibitions and to consult PST Web Support every bit as much as you would otherwise consult the documentation. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Mar 11, 9:12?am, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! ?I think E-Prime can do what you > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > inline code. ?As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". ?So if you do not > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > you: ?Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > and work through all of those. ?That might give you enough ideas to > figure it out. ?But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > will "take"). > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). ?If you do > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 10, 11:45?am, Vera wrote: > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From susangc7 at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 15:05:17 2010 From: susangc7 at gmail.com (Susan) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:05:17 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know if I'm interrupting the programming/scripting lesson or adding to it, but I seem to recall solving a similar problem back in the dark ages (beta 0.8, so here's hoping backwards compatibility is still solid; I can't check at home on my Mac). My solution is available here with a basic description of what the script is doing: http://step.psy.cmu.edu/scripts/Attention/EriksenStJames1986.html As an aside, I never really figured out how to make that site more useful for people looking for techniques rather than paradigms; a lot of techniques that work for one type of experiment crop up elsewhere. I like to think there are some useful scripts on the site anyway, both in the stuff I implemented as teaching tools during the beta and in the stuff that various people have submitted since. Finding the right ones may take a little time, though. HTH, Susan On Mar 11, 9:42?am, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Oh, and one more bit of generic programming advice that I repeat here > from time to time -- If your actual experiment program has any > complexity to it, then set that aside and exercise all your ideas on > smaller demo programs that you make just for that purpose, then when > you get your techniques worked out just apply those back to your > actual experiment program. ?Everybody (including me) thinks that they > can save time by working out fixes directly in their actual experiment > programs, and everybody (including me) is wrong about that. ?You save > time by working out the techniques in smaller "exercise" programs, > then applying what you learn back to your actual experiment program. > > > This becomes especially true when you have to work out the finer > points of E-Prime as "documented" in the online E-Basic Help. ?As > crucial as the online E-Basic Help is to gaining any real > understanding of E-Prime, in many many places it is at best > misleading, and at worst just plain wrong (not to mention that much of > the example code does not even compile), and PST takes no interest in > fixing that (I have personally posted several corrections to PST and > continue to do so, to almost no avail). ?So if, like me, you ever have > to understand how E-Prime really works, then you will have to make > many, many small demo programs in order to overcome the rampant > misinformation throughout the documentation. > > And BTW, this is where PST Web Support comes in. ?Many of us have the > old-fashioned notion that Support is a last resort. ?But as a result > of discussions with PST staff I now understand that PST Web Support is > their substitute for adequate documentation. ?So once again, I urge > everyone to get over your inhibitions and to consult PST Web Support > every bit as much as you would otherwise consult the documentation. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 11, 9:12?am, dkmcf wrote: > > > > > Vera, > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! ?I think E-Prime can do what you > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > inline code. ?As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". ?So if you do not > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > you: ?Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > and work through all of those. ?That might give you enough ideas to > > figure it out. ?But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > will "take"). > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). ?If you do > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > On Mar 10, 11:45?am, Vera wrote: > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > pictures). > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > With kind regards, > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 16:51:23 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:51:23 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02E263DD@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape wrote: > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc...) > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > Tobias, > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > thread to my own FAQ file). ?But here is a very brief synopsis: > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > ). ?(Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > sufficient inline code.) > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > >given... > > >Cheers, > >Tobias > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 16:56:28 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:56:28 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: Message-ID: dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the joystick? we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable): http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=us,en the buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only receive keyboard input... On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc.. > .) > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). > > Cheers, > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap? > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > Tobias, > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > >given... > > > > >Cheers, > > >Tobias > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 18:53:44 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:53:44 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi David, well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot already and trying every single solution I could think of (including scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon syntax...). :-) For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too (well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute [ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up with 9 times the same image on the slide). So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: 1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just write them into E-Prime. 2. Write some kind of script 3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can control some driving task with the secondary task. So I still need to find a solution!!! :-) On Mar 11, 3:12?pm, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! ?I think E-Prime can do what you > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > inline code. ?As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". ?So if you do not > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > you: ?Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > and work through all of those. ?That might give you enough ideas to > figure it out. ?But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > will "take"). > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). ?If you do > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 10, 11:45?am, Vera wrote: > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 18:54:42 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:54:42 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh yes, I will definitely contact PST! On Mar 11, 3:12?pm, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! ?I think E-Prime can do what you > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > inline code. ?As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". ?So if you do not > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > you: ?Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > and work through all of those. ?That might give you enough ideas to > figure it out. ?But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > will "take"). > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). ?If you do > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > On Mar 10, 11:45?am, Vera wrote: > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > pictures). > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > possible in my opinion). > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > With kind regards, > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 18:59:30 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:59:30 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, thanks for the very long post. I am going to try and implement this tomorrow (I worked all day with an IT-specialist today, trying to "code" around the problem) but in the end everything actually even got worse and we didn't find any solution really) so that this evening (well, for what is left of my evening) I will let E-Prime be E-Prime and do something else (watching some brain-dead-thing on the TV sounds like a perfect idea!!!) before my head explodes! I will look into your solution tomorrow though (or else this weekend, as tomorrow I will have to make sure that my "pictures-solution" works more or less so we can make a quick pilot study next week). Thanks a lot though for the effort and know that I will study your lines intensively when I get the opportunity (I am very unhappy with the generated-images solution we are going to use now). Greetings, Vera On Mar 11, 1:51?pm, liwenna wrote: > oops... in the comments inbetween the code quite some *'s are > missing... > > for instance in this comment: > *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with > m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be > filled. > for m = 1-9 > > lines 2 and 3 could use a * and only line 4 is actual code. But I > guess you can figure it out. > > On Mar 11, 1:49?pm, liwenna wrote: > > > Hey Vera, > > > I couldn't let go and I kinda overdid it a bit but here is an > > extensive post that I think should help you out. > > > What you do want to control is the number of times the target appears > > at each location. You have nine locations, so you make 9 levels in > > your triallist and create all the combinations of targetstimulus and > > targetlocations (x and y values) in that list (attributenames: > > targetstim for the picturename, targetx and targety). In this list you > > also create the attribute for the 8 distractorstimpictures (disstim1, > > disstim2 etc) but not fill these cells. Once the x and y of the target > > are defined the distractorstimuli automatically should get the other 8 > > x and y values so also create attributes for the x and y values of the > > distractors in this list (dis1x, dis1y, dis2x, dis2y etc.) and fill > > them with the remaining 8 x and y values for each level. Now you can > > have 9 imageobjects in your slide that refer to [targetstim], > > [disstim1], [disstim2] etc. and also to the x and ?y values for each > > stim in the list: [targetx] [targety], [dis1x], [dis1y], [dis2x] etc. > > > The only cells not filled yet are the cells that define the > > picturenames of the distractorstimuli (disstim1, distim2 etc in your > > triallist). These cells can be filled by adjusting the code referred > > to above from a random array. Something like the below thing should > > work (didn't test this one out in e-prime however as I am at home > > today). Place this code in an inline on the procedure on which your > > triallist is.... so... on your experimentprocedure you should make a > > blocklist with a blockprocedure and on the blockprocedure you place > > this in an inline in front of the triallist which you also place on > > the blockprocedure. The inline fills the 9 levels of the triallist and > > then the procedure proceeds to run the triallist. By setting the > > blocklist to repeat a x number of times, the procedure that contains > > the triallist-filling-inline as well as the triallist itself (set the > > triallist to run once but random!) will be run an x number of times > > and on each run the triallist will receive new random distractors. > > > Explanation of the code: > > disarray is the array that holds the distractorstimulinames and is as > > big as the number of stimuli you have... say you have 4 different > > stimuli (blue circle, yellow circle, blue square, yellow square) this > > is array has 4 levels and because 0 is also a level it is defined as > > disarray(3). > > > Each level of the array (number between brackets) is filled with a > > filename and then the array is randomized. > > > Then m refers to level numbers. In the 'codeline' "triallist.SetAttrib > > m", m can be 1, 2, 3 etc up to 9 as we have 9 levels (nine positions > > of the target). The code For m = 1 to 9 makes eprime repeat the code > > that is between that line and the line 'next m' 9 times, each time > > replacing m in the inbetween code. > > > A similar array is used to randomise the stimattribute into which each > > filename is placed. We have attributes called disstim1, disstim2 etc, > > so we need to manipulate the identifying numbers randomly. For that we > > create an array with 8 levels (randomposarray(7) ) and fill it with > > the numbers 1 to 8. > > > I understood from your post that in each trial 2 distractors will be > > used four times, so the code fills four of the 'stimx' cells with the > > filename that is in level 0 of the randomized array, and another four > > with the filename that is in level 1 of the array. After filling level > > m = 1 it restarts from 'for m = 1-9' and goes to fill level m=2. ?At > > restarting from 'for m = 1 to 9' it rerandomizes the arrays before it > > starts filling the random-n cells of disstim with the new (because > > rerandomizing the array) filenames that are in level 0 and 1 of the > > array. > > > The two arrays are best created on the usertab of the scriptwindow. > > There you place the following lines: > > > ************ > > *create an array to hold your 4 (? otherwise adjust) distractor > > filenames and another one that holds the 8 identifying numbers of the > > 8 distractor stimuli. > > dim disarray(3) as string > > dim randomposarray(7) as integer > > ************ > > > The rest goes in the inline preceding the triallist. Although > > placement kinda depends on your needs... if you use one target > > troughout the experiment the filling of the arrays can also be done on > > the usertab or you could move both the dim array lines and the filling > > lines to a place in the beginning of your experiment. If you want > > different blocks with different targets ?you'll have to refill the > > distractorarray each time the target changes (cause then automatically > > the distractors change too). Just make sure that e-prime does not have > > to repeat the dim-lines, cause it doesn't like that. > > > *************inlinecode******* > > *fill the distractorarray with the filenames. > > disarray(0) = stimname1.png > > disarray(1)= stimname2.png > > disarray(2)=stimname3.png > > disarray(3)=stimname4.png > > > * fill randomposarray with the numbers 0 -7 > > randomposarray(0) = 1 > > randomposarray(1) = 2 > > randomposarray(2) = 3 > > randomposarray(3) = 4 > > randomposarray(4) = 5 > > randomposarray(5) = 6 > > randomposarray(6) = 7 > > randomposarray(7) = 8 > > > *tell eprime to repeat the following code up to 'next m' 9 times, with > > m = 1, m=2, m=3 etc, m is levelnumber of the triallist that is to be > > filled. > > for m = 1-9 > > > *at the beginning of filling each level, first randomize the arrays > > that hold the filenames and the identifying numbers of each > > distractor. > > randomizearray disarray > > randomizearray randomposarray > > > *Four disstims get the filename that is in level 0 of the array. Which > > four is defined by the randomized randomposarray: first we fill the > > stims that have the numbers that are now in the first *four levels of > > randomposarray (levels 0-3, replaced by n in this line of code) > > for n = 0-3 > > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(0) > > > next n > > > *the second four disstims (the numbers are given by levels 4 to 7 of > > randomposarray) get the filename that is in level 1 of the > > distractorarray > > for n = 4-7 > > > triallist.SetAttrib m, "disstim" & randomposarray(n), disarray(1) > > > next n > > > *when e-prime gets here 1 level (m) of the triallist is filled and it > > goes back to 'for m = 1 to 9' to do the next m. > > next m when all m (9) levels are filled it wil start running the > > triallist (as this is next on the blockprocedure). > > ************endofcode******** > > > That all said... in the old paper and pencil days visual search tasks > > weren't randomized either... -_- > > > Good luck! > > > liw > > > On Mar 11, 1:07?am, Vera wrote: > > > > Thanks a lot Liwenna! :) > > > > Well I am going to have a look at all this tomorrow, it will for sure > > > go all better with a fresh head. In the meanwhile I started > > > "programming" a bit though (I think there isn't really any other > > > solution here - I am not very happy with this, but ok). I will see how > > > far I get, in the meanwhile, luckily, there is always the forum to get > > > some help. :) > > > > Take care, Vera > > > > On Mar 11, 12:31?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > and this thread could be of help too...http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c2610... > > > > it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1 > > > > target and 15 distractors . > > > > > On Mar 11, 12:25?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was > > > > > multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar > > > > > to your latest idea. > > > > > The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I > > > > > posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it > > > > > to fill a triallist. > > > > > > Hope it helps! > > > > > > On Mar 11, 12:16?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Vera, > > > > > > > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed > > > > > > solution. > > > > > > > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15 > > > > > > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt > > > > > > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and > > > > > > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could > > > > > > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and > > > > > > then filling the triallist. > > > > > > > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145... > > > > > > > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were > > > > > > seeking for a programming-free solution. > > > > > > > best, > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > On Mar 10, 10:55?pm, Vera wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Liwenna, > > > > > > > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to > > > > > > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;) > > > > > > > Just a few comments on what you wrote: > > > > > > > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that > > > > > > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can > > > > > > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the > > > > > > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only > > > > > > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like > > > > > > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested > > ... > > read more ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 11 19:01:33 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:01:33 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: @Susan: Thanks for the link towards the script. I knew the website, but as you said, it takes a lot of time (sometimes) to find something actually useful. I have been going through some scripts though in the hope to get some clues, ideas and maybe solutions, but I didn't try your script. I will have a look into it once my head will be fresh again (in other words: tomorrow or this weekend). :-) Thanks a lot! On Mar 11, 4:05?pm, Susan wrote: > I don't know if I'm interrupting the programming/scripting lesson or > adding to it, but I seem to recall solving a similar problem back in > the dark ages (beta 0.8, so here's hoping backwards compatibility is > still solid; I can't check at home on my Mac). > > My solution is available here with a basic description of what the > script is doing:http://step.psy.cmu.edu/scripts/Attention/EriksenStJames1986.html > > As an aside, I never really figured out how to make that site more > useful for people looking for techniques rather than paradigms; a lot > of techniques that work for one type of experiment crop up elsewhere. > I like to think there are some useful scripts on the site anyway, both > in the stuff I implemented as teaching tools during the beta and in > the stuff that various people have submitted since. Finding the right > ones may take a little time, though. > > HTH, > Susan > > On Mar 11, 9:42?am, dkmcf wrote: > > > Vera, > > > Oh, and one more bit of generic programming advice that I repeat here > > from time to time -- If your actual experiment program has any > > complexity to it, then set that aside and exercise all your ideas on > > smaller demo programs that you make just for that purpose, then when > > you get your techniques worked out just apply those back to your > > actual experiment program. ?Everybody (including me) thinks that they > > can save time by working out fixes directly in their actual experiment > > programs, and everybody (including me) is wrong about that. ?You save > > time by working out the techniques in smaller "exercise" programs, > > then applying what you learn back to your actual experiment program. > > > > > This becomes especially true when you have to work out the finer > > points of E-Prime as "documented" in the online E-Basic Help. ?As > > crucial as the online E-Basic Help is to gaining any real > > understanding of E-Prime, in many many places it is at best > > misleading, and at worst just plain wrong (not to mention that much of > > the example code does not even compile), and PST takes no interest in > > fixing that (I have personally posted several corrections to PST and > > continue to do so, to almost no avail). ?So if, like me, you ever have > > to understand how E-Prime really works, then you will have to make > > many, many small demo programs in order to overcome the rampant > > misinformation throughout the documentation. > > > And BTW, this is where PST Web Support comes in. ?Many of us have the > > old-fashioned notion that Support is a last resort. ?But as a result > > of discussions with PST staff I now understand that PST Web Support is > > their substitute for adequate documentation. ?So once again, I urge > > everyone to get over your inhibitions and to consult PST Web Support > > every bit as much as you would otherwise consult the documentation. > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > On Mar 11, 9:12?am, dkmcf wrote: > > > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! ?I think E-Prime can do what you > > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > > inline code. ?As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". ?So if you do not > > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > > you: ?Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > > and work through all of those. ?That might give you enough ideas to > > > figure it out. ?But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). ?If you do > > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45?am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From kellerj at gmail.com Thu Mar 11 22:33:20 2010 From: kellerj at gmail.com (Jen Keller) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 14:33:20 -0800 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" Message-ID: Hello, I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just to make sure they are there. Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? Thanks in advance. Best, Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 11 23:47:26 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:47:26 -0500 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vera, Good. I just needed better assurance that you had some experience with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make sense. And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), so if you get that to work then more power to you. In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that Susan mentioned. I hope that program does not represent the quality of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex for what it needs to do. It does indeed show a bit of using colon syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text. Of course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else matters. Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of discussion. Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those three spots. And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!). We start with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): material/[Stim1].png material/[Stim2].png material/[Stim3].png Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this may not line up well in your reader): Weight Nested Procedure Stim1 Stim2 Stim3 1 StimList TrialProc [Stim:0] [Stim:1] [Stim:2] Almost done. Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., Stim circle square And we set StimList to Random order. So how does this all work? E-Prime shuffles the StimList. On each round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then those go right into the three locations in StimSlide. See how simple that is once you get it all sorted out? And not a line of code! You just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. As I have presented it this should still work for picture files. If you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for the special cases of images and sounds in Slides). Also, you could replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. Whew! You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, because I do have other work to do to. So give this a whirl if you like. Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of Expedition Robinson). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Hi David, > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon >syntax...). :-) > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one >column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my >list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, >I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute >[ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I >created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem >here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line >at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up >with 9 times the same image on the slide). > >So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: > >1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just >write them into E-Prime. >2. Write some kind of script >3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). > >The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the >moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- >time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution >rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because >after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate >with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can >control some driving task with the secondary task. > >So I still need to find a solution!!! > >:-) > > > >On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! I think E-Prime can do what you > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > inline code. As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". So if you do not > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > you: Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > and work through all of those. That might give you enough ideas to > > figure it out. But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). If you do > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this > onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Fri Mar 12 10:47:35 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:47:35 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Grrr, too fast: relevation = revelation ;-) On Mar 12, 11:46?am, Vera wrote: > Hello everybody! > > Well, here I am, back after a good night of sleep (or almost, somehow > I woke up several times thinking about columns, lines and > trials...). ;-) We might think that E-Prime is actually getting "into > me". Well, as I had started some programming (as I really figured I > had tried every possible solution, looked at the file Susan sent by > the way, it seems VERY complicated to me and I also have a run-time > error (or was it compilation error??)) which makes I can't actually > run the program, but at least I had a look at the structure and I > think I get the point. > > So then after yesterday having been programming the whole day (got > some help from a collegue though as I am completely new to programming > in general) and after some kind of "relevation" this morning (I don't > know why I thought of the solution I found, but it worked) I got a > solution, which I am now very happy (and proud! ;-) ) to post here: > > In Eprime itself I made 3 slidestates (one with 9, another one with 16 > and another one with 25 images). To each image a dummy image needs to > be attributed - in my case I put a simple dummy.png which is simply a > black square (my background is black too). Yep, it's a lot of work > doing that all by hand, especially because you can't change settings > for all images at once. > In my DesignList I created different attributes ("Target" (filled with > 1's and 0's), "Image" (empty), "CorrectResponse (filled with 1's and > 2's) and "SlideState" filled with one of the possible slidestates for > each condition. > > Then, in my Trial Procedure (the one that follows the DesignList), I > created a script (before the slide) as follows: > > 'Eprime reads out for every line in the column "SlideState" which > 'slidestate it needs to take. It replaces the strings in this column > 'by z with a dIfferent number (in this case the number of items: > ' 9, 16 or 25). > > If c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State09" Then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? z = 9 > ? ? ? ? ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State16" Then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? z = 16 > ? ? ? ? ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State25" Then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? z = 25 > End If > > 'E-Prime reads out of the column "Target" if a target is present > 'or not (in this case 0 indicates the absence of a target, 1 > 'indicates the presence of a target. After reading out, it transforms > 'those values to an y-value. > > If c.getAttrib("Target") = 0 then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? y = 0 > ? ? ? ? ElseIf c.getAttrib("Target") = 1 then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? y = 1 > End If > > 'For the number 1 until z or 1 until (z-y) n case a target is present > - > 'which translates into 1 until 25 or 1 until (25-1) when a target is > 'present - a sequence is created with numbers from 1 and 2. > > For i = 1 to z - y > ? ? ? ? sequence(i) = Random(1,2) > Next > > 'And after those random numbers have been generated, a target > '(or not) is added. > > If y = 1 then > ? ? ? ? sequence(z) = 0 > End If > > 'This sequence is then randomized, but only for the array members > '1 until z (take care to do this, because if not, you might possibly > 'find 2 or more targets in your trial. > > randomizearray sequence, 1, z > > 'This is done as to get the output of the sequence written into the > 'textfile as a string. You don't need to do this for the program to > 'work. I just added this so afterwords I could know at which > 'position exactly the target had been as well as the position > 'of the different distractors. E-Prime just gives out a string > 'for exp. 102122111 indicating that there was one target (0) > 'on position two and distractors (1) and (2) on the other positions. > > s = str(sequence(1)) > > For i = 2 to z > ? ? ? ? s = s + Str(sequence(i)) > Next > > c.setAttrib "Image", s > > 'SlidePres here gets the information about which slidestate to > 'refer to > > SlidePres.ActiveState = c.GetAttrib("SlideState") > > 'Images are generated > > Dim images (1 to z) As SlideImage > For i = 1 to z > ? ? ? ? dim num as string > ? ? ? ? dim image_name as string > ? ? ? ? num = Str(i) > ? ? ? ? num = LTrim$(num) > ? ? ? ? image_name = "Image" + num > ? ? ? ? Set images(i) = > CSlideImage(SlidePres.States(SlidePres.ActiveState).Objects(image_name)) > Next > > 'And filled with the right image according to the sequence we > 'generated above. Make sure to write two \\ in the path to the > 'filename, as if not Eprime (or Visual Basic) interpretes it as > 'some kind of operator. > > For i = 1 to z > ? ? ? ? If sequence(i) = 0 then > ? ? ? ? images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_square.png" > ? ? ? ? ElseIf sequence(i) = 1 then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_triangle.png" > ? ? ? ? ElseIf sequence(i) = 2 then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\blue_square.png" > ? ? ? ? End If > Next > > 'Images get loaded > > For i = 1 to z > ? ? ? ? images(i).Load > Next > > 'The slide is drawn > > SlidePres.Draw > > Voil?!!!! :-) I am really happy it works!!! :-) Thanks a lot for your > help to all of you, I will for sure still try to get working some of > the solutions you proposed (I am still convinced that E-Prime should > work without programming - and for me, although I learend something > and it now works, I still don't like the programming part) and > especially your solutions David and Liwenna, because they seem to be > good ones too. I also didn't abandon my "fix images project" (I had a > programmer here generate 300 different pics for me) so I have a backup > in case all this will finally not work like I imagined. :-) > > In the meanwhile, have a nice day and thanks again for all your help! > > Vera (very relieved) > > On Mar 12, 12:47?am, David McFarlane wrote: > > > Vera, > > > Good. ?I just needed better assurance that you had some experience > > with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make > > sense. ?And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged > > combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the > > days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), > > so if you get that to work then more power to you. > > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > > Susan mentioned. ?I hope that program does not represent the quality > > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > > for what it needs to do. ?It does indeed show a bit of using colon > > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text. ?Of > > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. > > > Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with > > text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you > > cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else > > matters. ?Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". > > > So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of > > discussion. ?Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, > > and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those > > three spots. ?And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use > > file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do > > *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!). ?We start > > with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with > > three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead > > to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): > > > material/[Stim1].png > > material/[Stim2].png > > material/[Stim3].png > > > Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes > > (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a > > colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this > > may not line up well in your reader): > > > Weight ?Nested ? ?Procedure ?Stim1 ? ? Stim2 ? ? Stim3 > > ? ? ? 1 ?StimList ?TrialProc ?[Stim:0] ?[Stim:1] ?[Stim:2] > > > Almost done. ?Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim > > and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., > > Stim > > circle > > square > > > And we set StimList to Random order. > > > So how does this all work? ?E-Prime shuffles the StimList. ?On each > > round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then > > those go right into the three locations in StimSlide. ?See how simple > > that is once you get it all sorted out? ?And not a line of code! ?You > > just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. > > > As I have presented it this should still work for picture files. ?If > > you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out > > the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in > > StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for > > the special cases of images and sounds in Slides). ?Also, you could > > replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon > > syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. > > > Whew! ?You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, > > because I do have other work to do to. ?So give this a whirl if you > > like. ?Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get > > home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of > > Expedition Robinson). > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, > > No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." > > (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) > > > At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: > > > >Hi David, > > > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later > > >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot > > >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including > > >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon > > >syntax...). :-) > > > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too > > >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- > > >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one > > >column so to say) which is > > ... > > read more ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Fri Mar 12 10:46:25 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:46:25 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <4b998110.5244f10a.3a98.21a7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello everybody! Well, here I am, back after a good night of sleep (or almost, somehow I woke up several times thinking about columns, lines and trials...). ;-) We might think that E-Prime is actually getting "into me". Well, as I had started some programming (as I really figured I had tried every possible solution, looked at the file Susan sent by the way, it seems VERY complicated to me and I also have a run-time error (or was it compilation error??)) which makes I can't actually run the program, but at least I had a look at the structure and I think I get the point. So then after yesterday having been programming the whole day (got some help from a collegue though as I am completely new to programming in general) and after some kind of "relevation" this morning (I don't know why I thought of the solution I found, but it worked) I got a solution, which I am now very happy (and proud! ;-) ) to post here: In Eprime itself I made 3 slidestates (one with 9, another one with 16 and another one with 25 images). To each image a dummy image needs to be attributed - in my case I put a simple dummy.png which is simply a black square (my background is black too). Yep, it's a lot of work doing that all by hand, especially because you can't change settings for all images at once. In my DesignList I created different attributes ("Target" (filled with 1's and 0's), "Image" (empty), "CorrectResponse (filled with 1's and 2's) and "SlideState" filled with one of the possible slidestates for each condition. Then, in my Trial Procedure (the one that follows the DesignList), I created a script (before the slide) as follows: 'Eprime reads out for every line in the column "SlideState" which 'slidestate it needs to take. It replaces the strings in this column 'by z with a dIfferent number (in this case the number of items: ' 9, 16 or 25). If c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State09" Then z = 9 ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State16" Then z = 16 ElseIf c.GetAttrib("Slidestate") = "State25" Then z = 25 End If 'E-Prime reads out of the column "Target" if a target is present 'or not (in this case 0 indicates the absence of a target, 1 'indicates the presence of a target. After reading out, it transforms 'those values to an y-value. If c.getAttrib("Target") = 0 then y = 0 ElseIf c.getAttrib("Target") = 1 then y = 1 End If 'For the number 1 until z or 1 until (z-y) n case a target is present - 'which translates into 1 until 25 or 1 until (25-1) when a target is 'present - a sequence is created with numbers from 1 and 2. For i = 1 to z - y sequence(i) = Random(1,2) Next 'And after those random numbers have been generated, a target '(or not) is added. If y = 1 then sequence(z) = 0 End If 'This sequence is then randomized, but only for the array members '1 until z (take care to do this, because if not, you might possibly 'find 2 or more targets in your trial. randomizearray sequence, 1, z 'This is done as to get the output of the sequence written into the 'textfile as a string. You don't need to do this for the program to 'work. I just added this so afterwords I could know at which 'position exactly the target had been as well as the position 'of the different distractors. E-Prime just gives out a string 'for exp. 102122111 indicating that there was one target (0) 'on position two and distractors (1) and (2) on the other positions. s = str(sequence(1)) For i = 2 to z s = s + Str(sequence(i)) Next c.setAttrib "Image", s 'SlidePres here gets the information about which slidestate to 'refer to SlidePres.ActiveState = c.GetAttrib("SlideState") 'Images are generated Dim images (1 to z) As SlideImage For i = 1 to z dim num as string dim image_name as string num = Str(i) num = LTrim$(num) image_name = "Image" + num Set images(i) = CSlideImage(SlidePres.States(SlidePres.ActiveState).Objects(image_name)) Next 'And filled with the right image according to the sequence we 'generated above. Make sure to write two \\ in the path to the 'filename, as if not Eprime (or Visual Basic) interpretes it as 'some kind of operator. For i = 1 to z If sequence(i) = 0 then images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_square.png" ElseIf sequence(i) = 1 then images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\yellow_triangle.png" ElseIf sequence(i) = 2 then images(i).Filename = "D:\\EPrime\\blue_square.png" End If Next 'Images get loaded For i = 1 to z images(i).Load Next 'The slide is drawn SlidePres.Draw Voil?!!!! :-) I am really happy it works!!! :-) Thanks a lot for your help to all of you, I will for sure still try to get working some of the solutions you proposed (I am still convinced that E-Prime should work without programming - and for me, although I learend something and it now works, I still don't like the programming part) and especially your solutions David and Liwenna, because they seem to be good ones too. I also didn't abandon my "fix images project" (I had a programmer here generate 300 different pics for me) so I have a backup in case all this will finally not work like I imagined. :-) In the meanwhile, have a nice day and thanks again for all your help! Vera (very relieved) On Mar 12, 12:47?am, David McFarlane wrote: > Vera, > > Good. ?I just needed better assurance that you had some experience > with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make > sense. ?And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged > combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the > days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), > so if you get that to work then more power to you. > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > Susan mentioned. ?I hope that program does not represent the quality > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > for what it needs to do. ?It does indeed show a bit of using colon > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text. ?Of > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. > > Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with > text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you > cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else > matters. ?Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". > > So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of > discussion. ?Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, > and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those > three spots. ?And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use > file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do > *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!). ?We start > with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with > three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead > to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): > > material/[Stim1].png > material/[Stim2].png > material/[Stim3].png > > Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes > (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a > colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this > may not line up well in your reader): > > Weight ?Nested ? ?Procedure ?Stim1 ? ? Stim2 ? ? Stim3 > ? ? ? 1 ?StimList ?TrialProc ?[Stim:0] ?[Stim:1] ?[Stim:2] > > Almost done. ?Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim > and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., > Stim > circle > square > > And we set StimList to Random order. > > So how does this all work? ?E-Prime shuffles the StimList. ?On each > round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then > those go right into the three locations in StimSlide. ?See how simple > that is once you get it all sorted out? ?And not a line of code! ?You > just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. > > As I have presented it this should still work for picture files. ?If > you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out > the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in > StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for > the special cases of images and sounds in Slides). ?Also, you could > replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon > syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. > > Whew! ?You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, > because I do have other work to do to. ?So give this a whirl if you > like. ?Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get > home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of > Expedition Robinson). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, > No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." > (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) > > At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: > > >Hi David, > > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later > >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot > >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including > >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon > >syntax...). :-) > > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too > >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- > >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one > >column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my > >list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, > >I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute > >[ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I > >created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem > >here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line > >at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up > >with 9 times the same image on the slide). > > >So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: > > >1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just > >write them into E-Prime. > >2. Write some kind of script > >3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). > > >The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the > >moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- > >time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution > >rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because > >after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate > >with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can > >control some driving task with the secondary task. > > >So I still need to find a solution!!! > > >:-) > > >On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! ?I think E-Prime can do what you > > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > > inline code. ?As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". ?So if you do not > > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > > you: ?Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > > and work through all of those. ?That might give you enough ideas to > > > figure it out. ?But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). ?If you do > > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this > > onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera > > >-- > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >Groups "E-Prime" group. > >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 12 13:53:17 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:53:17 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Vera, Glad you got it to work, and thank you for a full presentation of your solution! But I feel I must provide an editorial reply to your own editorial comment. > I am still convinced that E-Prime should work without programming In this case one solution does not require any code, as I demonstrate above (unless I just do not fully understand your task). But more broadly, I just do not understand people who think that giving precise instructions to a machine with infinite possibilities (i.e., a Universal Turing Machine, look that up on Wikipedia) should "work without programming", any more than I would understand anyone who thinks that scientific publications should "work without science- speak". I have looked at many other experiment generating systems that "work without programming", and none of them, without programming, come close to the capabilities of what E-Prime can do because of its programming. In fact, my sole reason for endorsing E- Prime is precisely that it still includes a strong, conventional programming language. Please see my signature quote below. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'", http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 14:19:16 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:19:16 -0500 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <5a3a4f89-cedd-40bd-bc94-cc721fa9f6f2@q15g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then SaveAs... .jpg. if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > Hello, > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > to make sure they are there. > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best, > Jen > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 14:44:30 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:44:30 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51003110856n1dfdce5ayce4a2a7217e7fb98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: We actually don't use a joystick but a gamepad. This is, because they are much more ergonomic and RTs are more sensitive to variations in the conditions. We use the MS Sidewinder: http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/Microsoft-Sidewinder-Plug-a.jpg In E-Prime 2 there is an option of using joyticks (gamepads are recognized as josticks), in E-prime 1 there isn't, though. How can I mimic the buttons to be recognized as keyboard input? Cheers, Tobias On 11 Mrz., 17:56, ben robinson wrote: > dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the > joystick? > we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable):http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u... > ?the > buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only > receive keyboard input... > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > > wrote: > > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? There's > > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc.. > > .) > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike for > > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime users? Is > > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can have > > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive package > > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows 9). > > > Cheers, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > Tobias, > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > > thread to my own FAQ file). ?But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > > ). ?(Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > > >given... > > > > >Cheers, > > > >Tobias > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > attachment > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > system: > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 14:56:24 2010 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:56:24 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <013424b1-262a-4865-8946-70182c387562@z35g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: with the logitech controller we use now i simply download and install the driver from the logitech website ( http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/441/301&hub=1&cl=us,en?WT.z_sp=Image), this program then lets me assign values to each button on the controller. typically, i'll do something like make the left trigger buttons = '0' and the right trigger buttons = '1' and turn off all the other buttons so they do nothing. hopefully you can still find a similar driver for your gamepad from the microsoft website... http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=97d044f9-6f55-4804-9cf0-f97c5d5f891b On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Tobias wrote: > We actually don't use a joystick but a gamepad. This is, because they > are much more ergonomic and RTs are more sensitive to variations in > the conditions. > We use the MS Sidewinder: > http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/Microsoft-Sidewinder-Plug-a.jpg > > In E-Prime 2 there is an option of using joyticks (gamepads are > recognized as josticks), in E-prime 1 there isn't, though. How can I > mimic the buttons to be recognized as keyboard input? > > Cheers, > Tobias > > On 11 Mrz., 17:56, ben robinson wrote: > > dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the > > joystick? > > we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable): > http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u... > > < > http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u.. > .>the > > buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only > > receive keyboard input... > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > > > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > > > wrote: > > > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > > > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > > > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? > There's > > > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > > > > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc. > . > > > .) > > > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike > for > > > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime > users? Is > > > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can > have > > > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive > package > > > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > > > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows > 9). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mich > > > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > > Research Fellow > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > School of Psychology > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > > > Tobias, > > > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > > > thread to my own FAQ file). But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > > > ). (Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > > > >given... > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > >Tobias > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > > attachment > > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > > system: > > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with > the > > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK > legislation. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 15:17:51 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:17:51 -0800 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51003120656hf33ff2eo95d7370279c55765@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I can try that, thanks for the hint. Is there a way to colelct data with the "parallel" or "serial port" setting in E-Prime? It's a USB gamepad, though... On 12 Mrz., 15:56, ben robinson wrote: > with the logitech controller we use now i simply download and install the > driver from the logitech website (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/441/301&hub=1&cl=us,en?WT.z_sp=Image), > this program then lets me assign values to each button on the controller. > ?typically, i'll do something like make the left trigger buttons = '0' and > the right trigger buttons = '1' and turn off all the other buttons so they > do nothing. > hopefully you can still find a similar driver for your gamepad from the > microsoft website...http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&Family... > > On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Tobias wrote: > > We actually don't use a joystick but a gamepad. This is, because they > > are much more ergonomic and RTs are more sensitive to variations in > > the conditions. > > We use the MS Sidewinder: > >http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/Microsoft-Sidewinder-Plug-a... > > > In E-Prime 2 there is an option of using joyticks (gamepads are > > recognized as josticks), in E-prime 1 there isn't, though. How can I > > mimic the buttons to be recognized as keyboard input? > > > Cheers, > > Tobias > > > On 11 Mrz., 17:56, ben robinson wrote: > > > dare i ask why you want to use a joystick without actually using the > > > joystick? > > > we use this a lot (it's cheap and fairly durable): > >http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u... > > > ?< > >http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/controllers/devices/301&cl=u.. > > .>the > > > buttons can be made to mimic keyboard buttons, so that eprime need only > > > receive keyboard input... > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Tobias wrote: > > > > I actually want to only use the buttons. Do I need a script for that? > > > > > On 5 Mrz., 18:40, Michiel Spape > > > > wrote: > > > > > Apart from once again pointing out to the insanely groovy XBOX360 > > > > protocol in E-Prime (1.x), I thought, perhaps it might be possible to > > > > emulate a mouse with ajoystick, then use this as input in E-Prime? > > There's > > > > bound to be some people who have made custom programmes for that (like > > > this:http://joystickcursor-control-tool.deinmeister-digital-delusions.qarc. > > . > > > > .) > > > > > > Speaking of PRO, does anyone else here has the same kind of dislike > > for > > > > this division in PRO and base? How many of us are hobbyist E-Prime > > users? Is > > > > it really necessary to take a couple of features away so that users can > > have > > > > the Great Freedom and Liberty to choose between the very expensive > > package > > > > and the ridiculously expensive one? I'll update E-Prime as soon as it > > > > supports Windows 7 (which is probably just after the release of Windows > > 9). > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Mich > > > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > > > Research Fellow > > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > > School of Psychology > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > > > Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > > > Sent: 05 March 2010 14:55 > > > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > > > Subject: Re:Joystickin E-Prime 1.x > > > > > > Tobias, > > > > > > Matt Lenhart from PST answered this question in a thread here on the > > > > > Google Group back in Sep 2008, if you search using the term > > > > > "joystick" then you will find it (and I am adding that excellent > > > > > thread to my own FAQ file). ?But here is a very brief synopsis: > > > > > > - EP1 can use onlyjoystickbuttons, not position, and then only via > > > > > the parallel or game ports (i.e., the same way that all versions of > > > > > EP can use arbitrary switch closures -- see also the thread athttp:// > > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/c30e82d36... > > > > > ). ?(Although, if I recall the operation of the game port, EP1 could > > > > > still getjoystickposition through a game port if you added > > > > > sufficient inline code.) > > > > > > - The base edition of EP2 will handle both buttons and postion of > > > > > ordinary joysticks, but requires extensive inline code. > > > > > > - The Pro edition of EP2 makes more of thejoystickfunctionality > > > > > available directly through the E-Studio GUI. > > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > > > >I am wondering whether there is a way of using aJoystickin E-Prime > > > > > >1.x. I used to use Joysticks in E-Prime 2 where you can find it as a > > > > > >standard input device. Unlike in E-Prime 1 where no such option is > > > > > >given... > > > > > > >Cheers, > > > > > >Tobias > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > > > attachment > > > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > > > system: > > > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with > > the > > > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK > > legislation. > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 12 15:32:18 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:32:18 -0500 Subject: Joystick in E-Prime 1.x In-Reply-To: <64a81d0d-8eed-4eb5-8223-7b67f93db57e@a18g2000yqc.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Tobias, >Is there a way to colelct data with the "parallel" or "serial port" >setting in E-Prime? Um, yes. *Much* has been written about that so just search around, no sense repeating all that here. >It's a USB gamepad, though... Um, then parallel & serial ports will do you no good here. You could of course use other button boxes that you may connect through parallel & serial ports, and once again much has been written about that already, so just do more searching. Finally, do not neglect the trained staff at PST Web Support, http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (though latest report indicates response times closer to 5 days). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Mar 12 15:22:57 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:22:57 -0000 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <3345e4a51003120619o57a19de8kc434b8b6b880998d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline at the beginning of the trial: Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " now" And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in the debug output. Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then SaveAs... .jpg. if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: Hello, I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just to make sure they are there. Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? Thanks in advance. Best, Jen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vera.donk at googlemail.com Fri Mar 12 16:16:05 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:16:05 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David, maybe I expressed myself wrongly here: I am still convinced that the thing I wanted to do should work without programming a single line (or at least, let's say that is what I expected). Of course I understand that if you want to do the REAL complicated stuff, E-Prime has its limits and one needs to program. I am just a little bit, let's call it "deceived" because I am convinced that my experimental setup is not very complicated in itself. This all said, I didn't try the solution you proposed yet and as it seems, things will function without programming, so maybe I just too quickly decided to program. But then at some point the "E-Prime solution" seems so far-fetched that programming appears the simpler and more elegant solution. Greetings, Vera PS: Like the signature. :-) On Mar 12, 2:53?pm, dkmcf wrote: > Vera, > > Glad you got it to work, and thank you for a full presentation of your > solution! ?But I feel I must provide an editorial reply to your own > editorial comment. > > > I am still convinced that E-Prime should work without programming > > In this case one solution does not require any code, as I demonstrate > above (unless I just do not fully understand your task). ?But more > broadly, I just do not understand people who think that giving precise > instructions to a machine with infinite possibilities (i.e., a > Universal Turing Machine, look that up on Wikipedia) should "work > without programming", ?any more than I would understand anyone who > thinks that scientific publications should "work without science- > speak". ?I have looked at many other experiment generating systems > that "work without programming", and none of them, without > programming, come close to the capabilities of what E-Prime can do > because of its programming. ?In fact, my sole reason for endorsing E- > Prime is precisely that it still includes a strong, conventional > programming language. ?Please see my signature quote below. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our > native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for > making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." ?Edsger W. > Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'",http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html > . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From susangc7 at gmail.com Fri Mar 12 16:27:16 2010 From: susangc7 at gmail.com (Susan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 08:27:16 -0800 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <4b998110.5244f10a.3a98.21a7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David, Mea culpa. I apparently updated a test file instead of the final file eight years ago. Fixing that one is going to be a bit of a challenge, although I guess I can attempt to track down a copy of EP 1 (or edit the text version of the es file) to fix the typo that causes that runtime error and email it to Brian. I'd do it now, but all I have is 2.0 Pro. As a note, it would be lovely if people who noticed problems like that with the STEP scripts would try to fix them and send the new versions in; that grant ran out in 2003 or thereabouts, so anything that's still there or is updated is done because Brian and his lab are trying to be helpful. The structure of the visual attention file is complex, but it solved the problem at the time, which was the blocking of number of cued items and SOA with factorial variation within the trials of lure position and noise compatibility (and randomized distractors using colon notation, which was the part I thought might be analogous). That's not the problem here, and I apologize for suggesting something needlessly complex. My own orientation is toward examples rather than explanations, so I thought the additional information might prove helpful. Wouldn't it be nice if E-Prime had non-script comments? That might have made all of the scripts better teaching tools for people learning E-Prime, rather than just for people trying to teach experimental psych with E-Prime. (Vera, sorry to hijack your thread -- I'm glad you got it to work.) Thanks, Susan PhD Student University of Maryland Psychology (who no longer uses E-Prime very much at all) On Mar 11, 6:47?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Vera, > > Good. ?I just needed better assurance that you had some experience > with colon syntax, otherwise nothing else I add here will make > sense. ?And let me say first that making a number of pre-arranged > combinations is a time-honored way of doing things (think back to the > days of opto-mechanical slide projectors for stimulus presentation), > so if you get that to work then more power to you. > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > Susan mentioned. ?I hope that program does not represent the quality > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > for what it needs to do. ?It does indeed show a bit of using colon > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text. ?Of > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. > > Speaking of text vs. pictures, I need you to first work this out with > text only (no pictures), and then later advance to pictures -- if you > cannot get the structure to work with plain text, then nothing else > matters. ?Once again, we use the time-honored strategy of "divide and conquer". > > So let's simplify this a little more for the sake of > discussion. ?Let's suppose you have only three spots on the screen, > and you want to randomly assign some text samples to each of those > three spots. ?And to prepare for pictures later, we might as well use > file names for our example text stimluli (but please, please, do > *not* use actual picture files yet for this exercise!!). ?We start > with a stimuls Slide in our TrialProc, let's call it StimSlide, with > three SlideText objects that contain the following (and looking ahead > to putting our picture files in a subdirectory, as discussed in other threads): > > material/[Stim1].png > material/[Stim2].png > material/[Stim3].png > > Next, in our TrialList, we have a nested List plus three attributes > (columns) called Stim1, Stim2, and Stim3, each containing a > colon-syntax reference to the nested List, something like this (this > may not line up well in your reader): > > Weight ?Nested ? ?Procedure ?Stim1 ? ? Stim2 ? ? Stim3 > ? ? ? 1 ?StimList ?TrialProc ?[Stim:0] ?[Stim:1] ?[Stim:2] > > Almost done. ?Now in the nested StimList we add the attribute Stim > and fill in our actual stimulus items, e.g., > Stim > circle > square > > And we set StimList to Random order. > > So how does this all work? ?E-Prime shuffles the StimList. ?On each > round, TrialList then picks three new items from StimList, and then > those go right into the three locations in StimSlide. ?See how simple > that is once you get it all sorted out? ?And not a line of code! ?You > just have to grasp the broader underlying concepts and principles of E-Prime. > > As I have presented it this should still work for picture files. ?If > you were instead to use only text stimuli then you could leave out > the extra columns in TrialList and use colon syntax directly in > StimSlide (but as discussed in the earlier thread, this will fail for > the special cases of images and sounds in Slides). ?Also, you could > replace "Stim:0" everywhere with simply "Stim", but when I use colon > syntax I like to leave it in for clarity. > > Whew! ?You can see why I often have to put people off for awhile, > because I do have other work to do to. ?So give this a whirl if you > like. ?Now it is late here in the U.S. midwest, and I have to get > home and get ready for tonight's episode of Survivor (US knockoff of > Expedition Robinson). > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, > No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." > (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) > > At 3/11/2010 01:53 PM Thursday, you wrote: > > >Hi David, > > >well about the "I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later > >lesson will "take" " I think I definitely have been struggling a lot > >already and trying every single solution I could think of (including > >scripts, including nested lists, including nested lists with colon > >syntax...). :-) > > >For the colon syntax by the way, I first thought of this solution too > >(well after I tried the first solution in which I naively expected E- > >Prime to read out 9 different images out of one list (out of one > >column so to say) which is apparently not the case) so I wrote into my > >list that my images (all with the syntax [Image] as filename (and yes, > >I created an attribute "Image" too) should go to the attribute > >[ImageInNestedList:9] in the nested list (which of course also I > >created with an attribute ImageInNestedList). But the same problem > >here too: E-Prime only reads out 1 image out of this list (so one line > >at a time) and then replicates that image 9 times (so yep, I end up > >with 9 times the same image on the slide). > > >So for the moment, the only solutions I see are: > > >1. Define a certain number of combinations (let's say 200) and just > >write them into E-Prime. > >2. Write some kind of script > >3. Make let's say 200 different images (fixed with the 9 images). > > >The last one is by the way the solution I am going to use for the > >moment (a collegue has some script to create 200 random images in no- > >time) as time is running out and we need a "quick and dirty" solution > >rapidly. However, I will keep on trying to get this right, because > >after the pilote-study, this whole test is supposed to communicate > >with our driving simulator (I am not programming this!) so that we can > >control some driving task with the secondary task. > > >So I still need to find a solution!!! > > >:-) > > >On Mar 11, 3:12 pm, dkmcf wrote: > > > Vera, > > > > Wow, what a discussion this sparked! ?I think E-Prime can do what you > > > want in a quite straightforward way using nested Lists without any > > > inline code. ?As hinted at the thread that you cited (http:// > > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ > > > 58e3ae402de68442 ), the key is "colon syntax". ?So if you do not > > > already have this working, here is another homework assignment for > > > you: ?Go to the index in the User's Guide that came with E-Prime and > > > look up "colon syntax", then follow that to the appropriate tutorials > > > and work through all of those. ?That might give you enough ideas to > > > figure it out. ?But if you remain stuck after that, then refresh this > > > thread some time next week and I will post more details on this > > > approach (I need you to struggle a bit first so that the later lesson > > > will "take"). > > > > And don't forget PST Web Support, they like to take these sorts of > > > questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.aspand > > > they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although > > > reported response time is currently more like 5 days). ?If you do > > > contact Web Support then please report back here with the results. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > On Mar 10, 11:45 am, Vera wrote: > > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles". > > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list. > > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this > > onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85... > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right > > > > pictures). > > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list). > > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers, > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent. > > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be > > > > possible in my opinion). > > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me! > > > > > With kind regards, > > > > > Vera > > >-- > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >Groups "E-Prime" group. > >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 12 20:38:13 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:38:13 -0500 Subject: On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list In-Reply-To: <388cd876-eaa5-42ba-b94b-4bab9fb32984@t23g2000yqt.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Susan, You need merely change [CueSize] to [F_CueSize] on BlockHeader and the program works. I will make that trivial change with EP1.2 and send that to you separately, perhaps you can then forward it on. Thanks for the explanation of the added complexities that that program was meant to address. As for "non-script" comments, my own recent brainstorm is to insert inline code in some places for the sole purpose of adding comments to explain the program. E.g., at the start of each SessionProc I now regularly put an inline code object called "ReadMe" where I write a brief description of the program as a whole, add any needed implentation notes, date, author, and version notes, and a running list of dates & version changes. I find this solves a lot of problems for me, (which is why this is standard practice in any conventional programming environment). I am ashamed however that it took me almost a decade of using E-Prime to come upon this simple workaround. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "You got to test that piece of software, You got to test it for yourself, No one else can test it for you, You got to test it for yourself." (Apologies to the Fairfield Four) At 3/12/2010 11:27 AM Friday, you wrote: >David, > >Mea culpa. I apparently updated a test file instead of the final file >eight years ago. Fixing that one is going to be a bit of a challenge, >although I guess I can attempt to track down a copy of EP 1 (or edit >the text version of the es file) to fix the typo that causes that >runtime error and email it to Brian. I'd do it now, but all I have >is 2.0 Pro. As a note, it would be lovely if people who noticed >problems like that with the STEP scripts would try to fix them and >send the new versions in; that grant ran out in 2003 or thereabouts, >so anything that's still there or is updated is done because Brian and >his lab are trying to be helpful. > >The structure of the visual attention file is complex, but it solved >the problem at the time, which was the blocking of number of cued >items and SOA with factorial variation within the trials of lure >position and noise compatibility (and randomized distractors using >colon notation, which was the part I thought might be analogous). >That's not the problem here, and I apologize for suggesting something >needlessly complex. My own orientation is toward examples rather than >explanations, so I thought the additional information might prove >helpful. > >Wouldn't it be nice if E-Prime had non-script comments? That might >have made all of the scripts better teaching tools for people learning >E-Prime, rather than just for people trying to teach experimental >psych with E-Prime. > >(Vera, sorry to hijack your thread -- I'm glad you got it to work.) > >Thanks, >Susan >PhD Student >University of Maryland Psychology >(who no longer uses E-Prime very much at all) > >On Mar 11, 6:47 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > In the meantime, I also tried the example VisualAttention.es that > > Susan mentioned. I hope that program does not represent the quality > > of the other STEP offerings (especially since I have referred folks > > to STEP myself) -- First it has a mistake that causes a runtime error > > (though easily fixed), and then the structure seems awfully complex > > for what it needs to do. It does indeed show a bit of using colon > > syntax to arrange stimuli at random spots in a circle, but then it > > only uses text stimuli, and because of a flaw that remains even in > > EP2 this may crash when you try using pictures in place of text. Of > > course it may well be that I do not correctly understand the tasks > > here, so let me present the lesson and you tell me where I get it wrong. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Sun Mar 14 14:44:38 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:44:38 -0700 Subject: Feedback for anticipation Message-ID: Hi again! :-) Another question: is there some way to give feedback for "anticipated" responses? Let's say the participant gets to see a fixation cross and then some images. By an effect of anticipation, it could be that he/she already pushes a button before even seeing the actual stimulus. I was wondering if there was some way to have a wav.file saying "too early". I fiddled something together with my fixation cross being followed by a feedback screen (I repeat the fixation cross at the feedback screen in a text box) but it just doesn't work out right. :( E-Prime does indeed give out the "too early" wav.file when a button is pushed when the fixation cross is still there, but then I have two other problems: 1. Of course it doesn't detect if a button is pushed WHILE the feedback screen in shown (thus not giving any feedback). 2. On my feedback screen, I actually don't see the fixation cross (I only hear the sound-feedback). Am I giving myself a too hard time here, or did I just oversee some function in E-Prime? Is there something like "anticipation feedback"? Thanks to anybody who can give me a clue! :-) Greetings, Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 15 11:48:45 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:48:45 -0000 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Vera, Programming languages seldom care about the psychology of anticipation, but what you want seems quite easily achieved, either with or without inline. So, we have a fixation, say, a textdisplay with a little plus (my preferred crosshair), some images, then the rest of the task? Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: Fixation-->if response jump label1 Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 Procedure: Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial Or something, anyway. At some point, one can make things much more difficult without coding than with, and at that point, it's time to do some script. Fixation-->Inline1-->Stimuli-->Label1-->EndOfTrial With Inline1 being a little inline saying SoundWarning.Play 'SoundWarning being either a sounddevice thingy you have in unreferenced objects, or a buffer which you coded (easily found in ebasic help) Goto Label1 Third, [A psychological consideration] You might want to consider just filtering out the responses. I know how tempting it is to do all these kinds of things, but consider: A) it takes longer to programme; B) your subjects might get confused with all that feedback; C) you might affect RT distributions adversely by forcing subjects to perform overly fast or slow. If you find subjects performing too fast, you might want to consider underlining that they need to perform more accurately (say, every 10 trials). Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Vera Sent: 14 March 2010 14:45 To: E-Prime Subject: Feedback for anticipation Hi again! :-) Another question: is there some way to give feedback for "anticipated" responses? Let's say the participant gets to see a fixation cross and then some images. By an effect of anticipation, it could be that he/she already pushes a button before even seeing the actual stimulus. I was wondering if there was some way to have a wav.file saying "too early". I fiddled something together with my fixation cross being followed by a feedback screen (I repeat the fixation cross at the feedback screen in a text box) but it just doesn't work out right. :( E-Prime does indeed give out the "too early" wav.file when a button is pushed when the fixation cross is still there, but then I have two other problems: 1. Of course it doesn't detect if a button is pushed WHILE the feedback screen in shown (thus not giving any feedback). 2. On my feedback screen, I actually don't see the fixation cross (I only hear the sound-feedback). Am I giving myself a too hard time here, or did I just oversee some function in E-Prime? Is there something like "anticipation feedback"? Thanks to anybody who can give me a clue! :-) Greetings, Vera -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Mon Mar 15 11:48:57 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:48:57 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response Message-ID: hi there i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew can anyone help me with this? thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:43:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:43:25 -0400 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02F3E8A4@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mich, >Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of >nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: > >Fixation-->if response jump label1 >Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 >Procedure: >Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial Funny you should mention using multiple overlapping Jump Labels, since I just looked into this myself a few weeks ago. Did you ever get that to work yourself? How? I found it completely impossible for the following reasons: 1) Any one E-Studio object has only one Jump Label that applies to all its End Action = Jump input masks; i.e., E-Studio has no mechanism for allowing multiple Jump Labels from any one object. 2) To circumvent that, I used two objects with overlapping extended input Time Limits, giving a different Jump Label to the input mask for each object. In this case, any input that I gave that had End Action = Jump jumped to the Jump Label from the second object, never to the Jump Label from the first object. 3) If you look into the code generated by E-Prime, you will see why this must be so. First, you will see that every Label object produces the following code: If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then ... Second, you will see a line like On Error Goto MyJumpLabel back up by where your input mask gets reset (and note further that MyJumpLabel never appears in the input mask definition itself). From that you will see that E-Prime implements Jump Labels merely by some clever hijacking of the error handling facility built into Visual Basic. And since Visual Basic (and thus E-Basic) can have only one error handler in effect at any time, E-Prime can have only one Jump Label in effect at any time. Just trying to keep the record straight. Of course, you will not find anthing about this in the documentation from PST. And as usual, do not take even my word for any of this, you have to try it out for yourself. Best regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 15 17:49:40 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:49:40 -0400 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: <4b9e71c4.5244f10a.33b9.5b0fSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Mich, Oops, my apology, you stand vindicated. My examination and comments about multiple overlapping Jump Labels still stands, but taking a further look at your post I see that you never advocated such a thing, you clearly exhibit using different Jump Labels over different Time Limit periods, and that should work as you describe. Best regards, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/15/2010 01:43 PM Monday, you wrote: >Mich, > >>Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of >>nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: >> >>Fixation-->if response jump label1 >>Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 >>Procedure: >>Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial > >Funny you should mention using multiple overlapping Jump Labels, >since I just looked into this myself a few weeks ago. Did you ever >get that to work yourself? How? I found it completely impossible >for the following reasons: > >1) Any one E-Studio object has only one Jump Label that applies to >all its End Action = Jump input masks; i.e., E-Studio has no >mechanism for allowing multiple Jump Labels from any one object. > >2) To circumvent that, I used two objects with overlapping extended >input Time Limits, giving a different Jump Label to the input mask >for each object. In this case, any input that I gave that had End >Action = Jump jumped to the Jump Label from the second object, never >to the Jump Label from the first object. > >3) If you look into the code generated by E-Prime, you will see why >this must be so. First, you will see that every Label object >produces the following code: If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then >... Second, you will see a line like On Error Goto MyJumpLabel back >up by where your input mask gets reset (and note further that >MyJumpLabel never appears in the input mask definition >itself). From that you will see that E-Prime implements Jump Labels >merely by some clever hijacking of the error handling facility built >into Visual Basic. And since Visual Basic (and thus E-Basic) can >have only one error handler in effect at any time, E-Prime can have >only one Jump Label in effect at any time. > > >Just trying to keep the record straight. Of course, you will not >find anthing about this in the documentation from PST. And as >usual, do not take even my word for any of this, you have to try it >out for yourself. > >Best regards, >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From vera.donk at googlemail.com Tue Mar 16 21:19:03 2010 From: vera.donk at googlemail.com (Vera) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:19:03 -0700 Subject: Feedback for anticipation In-Reply-To: <4b9e733a.5844f10a.574f.5062SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello Michiel and David, actually the message you wrote Michiel, made me think a bit and after a long long long discussion today with my professor we decided not to use any anticipation feedback (well that doesn't mean that I had been trying your solution a bit, not with too much success though, but then I had started thinking about your psychological consideration and was probably less motivated than I was before). So thanks for the feedback anyway! I hope it will be of help to somebody in the future! :-) Cheers, Vera On Mar 15, 6:49?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Mich, > > Oops, my apology, you stand vindicated. ?My examination and comments > about multiple overlapping Jump Labels still stands, but taking a > further look at your post I see that you never advocated such a > thing, you clearly exhibit using different Jump Labels over different > Time Limit periods, and that should work as you describe. > > Best regards, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 3/15/2010 01:43 PM Monday, you wrote: > > >Mich, > > >>Without inline, the easiest thing would be to make some kind of > >>nasty spider-web of a programme containing multiple jump labels: > > >>Fixation-->if response jump label1 > >>Fixation-->no response-->images-->some kind of response-->jump label2 > >>Procedure: > >>Fixation-->Stimuli-->Response-->Label1-->SoundWarning-->Label2-->EndOfTrial > > >Funny you should mention using multiple overlapping Jump Labels, > >since I just looked into this myself a few weeks ago. ?Did you ever > >get that to work yourself? ?How? ?I found it completely impossible > >for the following reasons: > > >1) Any one E-Studio object has only one Jump Label that applies to > >all its End Action = Jump input masks; i.e., E-Studio has no > >mechanism for allowing multiple Jump Labels from any one object. > > >2) To circumvent that, I used two objects with overlapping extended > >input Time Limits, giving a different Jump Label to the input mask > >for each object. ?In this case, any input that I gave that had End > >Action = Jump jumped to the Jump Label from the second object, never > >to the Jump Label from the first object. > > >3) If you look into the code generated by E-Prime, you will see why > >this must be so. ?First, you will see that every Label object > >produces the following code: ?If Err.Number = ebInputAccepted Then > >... ?Second, you will see a line like On Error Goto MyJumpLabel back > >up by where your input mask gets reset (and note further that > >MyJumpLabel never appears in the input mask definition > >itself). ?From that you will see that E-Prime implements Jump Labels > >merely by some clever hijacking of the error handling facility built > >into Visual Basic. ?And since Visual Basic (and thus E-Basic) can > >have only one error handler in effect at any time, E-Prime can have > >only one Jump Label in effect at any time. > > >Just trying to keep the record straight. ?Of course, you will not > >find anthing about this in the documentation from PST. ?And as > >usual, do not take even my word for any of this, you have to try it > >out for yourself. > > >Best regards, > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 13:59:13 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:59:13 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <5ed82529-1dc1-414e-88b8-9c07179c4437@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Welcome back Yoed. So you still didn't solve this, hey? I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong where exactly. Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above steps or not. Best, liw On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > hi there > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > can anyone help me with this? > thanks -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 14:11:47 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:11:47 -0700 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02EB29B2@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Ha Jen, Any luck with the pictures yet?? For what it's worth... image files created or modified on a mac are known to sometimes (and definitely not always) give problems of the 2000 kind... (see for instance this, rather messy, topic: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/a72bcd05a221c7dc/6827f84673878d96) Any chance your files have been macified? Best, liw On Mar 12, 4:22 pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > > If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline at the beginning of the trial: > > Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " now" > > And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in the debug output. > > Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. > > Cheers, > > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychology > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ben robinson > Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" > > if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then SaveAs... .jpg. > > if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > > Hello, > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > to make sure they are there. > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best, > Jen > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From kellerj at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 15:38:40 2010 From: kellerj at gmail.com (jen) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 10:38:40 -0500 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: <6dadb351-5fba-48db-ae60-15d486f9854c@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: hello, thanks so much for your reply. i was out of town for a week, so i forwarded the replies i received to my colleague. i'm not sure of the current status. i was definitely using a mac, however, to edit the images so it is quite possible that they have been 'macified.' thanks to everyone for their help. best, jen On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, liwenna wrote: > Ha Jen, > > Any luck with the pictures yet?? > > For what it's worth... image files created or modified on a mac are > known to sometimes (and definitely not always) give problems of the > 2000 kind... (see for instance this, rather messy, topic: > > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/a72bcd05a221c7dc/6827f84673878d96 > ) > > Any chance your files have been macified? > > Best, > > liw > > On Mar 12, 4:22 pm, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be > almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme > references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, > just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. > Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline > at the beginning of the trial: > > > > Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " > now" > > > > And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added > " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find > "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in > the debug output. > > > > Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the > extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to > explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do > yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! > It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > > Research Fellow > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > School of Psychology > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of ben robinson > > Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" > > > > if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just > double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format > masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then > SaveAs... .jpg. > > > > if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and > SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > > to make sure they are there. > > > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best, > > Jen > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com e-prime%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com> > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 16:19:17 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:19:17 -0700 Subject: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Welcome back in town ! ;) The mac thing is likely it then. Opening and 'saving as' with for instance gimp on a pc did the trick for my files back then. On Mar 17, 4:38 pm, jen wrote: > hello, > > thanks so much for your reply. i was out of town for a week, so i forwarded > the replies i received to my colleague. i'm not sure of the current > status. i was definitely using a mac, however, to edit the images so it is > quite possible that they have been 'macified.' > > thanks to everyone for their help. > > best, > jen > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, liwenna wrote: > > Ha Jen, > > > Any luck with the pictures yet?? > > > For what it's worth... image files created or modified on a mac are > > known to sometimes (and definitely not always) give problems of the > > 2000 kind... (see for instance this, rather messy, topic: > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/a72bcd05a... > > ) > > > Any chance your files have been macified? > > > Best, > > > liw > > > On Mar 12, 4:22 pm, Michiel Spape > > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > If it means E-Prime can't find the pictures, as Jen says, then you can be > > almost 100% sure the filename is incorrect. I take it the programme > > references an attribute which contains the filename, yes? Whatever the case, > > just try a little inline before the imagedisplay or whatnot calls the slide. > > Let's say the attribute is called PictureFilename, then insert this inline > > at the beginning of the trial: > > > > Debug.print "I'm going to show " & c.GetAttrib ("PictureFilename") & " > > now" > > > > And just read which file (or often, lack thereof) it crashes on. I added > > " now" so that in the unlikely event E-Prime crashes because it can't find > > "this file.jpg " instead of "this file.jpg", you should be able to see it in > > the debug output. > > > > Lastly, and mainly as an aside, make sure you have actually the > > extensions added. For some reason, Windows default Folder Options (go to > > explorer>tools>folder options) have "Hide known filetypes" on by default. Do > > yourself a favour when switching this off and switch "Show hidden files" on! > > It's one of the first things I do after reinstalling windows. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > > Research Fellow > > > > Perception & Action group > > > > University of Nottingham > > > > School of Psychology > > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On > > Behalf Of ben robinson > > > Sent: 12 March 2010 14:19 > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > Subject: Re: "ImageDisplay Internal Error, Marker: 2000" > > > > if you are running eprime 2, then jpegs should be fine. just > > double-check that they're really jpegs, not some other image format > > masquerading as jpegs. to be sure, you might open it in Paint, then > > SaveAs... .jpg. > > > > if you're running eprime 1.x, then you'll need to open them in Paint and > > SaveAs .bmp, since earlier eprimes only allow .bmp images. > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Jen Keller wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I know this error message has been discussed before, but I need some > > > additional guidance. We are running a dot probe task using jpeg > > > images. Our eprime program runs very smoothly until about 2/3 of the > > > way through the program when it shuts down and give us this error > > > message "image display internal error, marker:2000." From reading past > > > posts, I have gathered that this means it eprime can't find the jpeg > > > images. However, the jpeg images are, indeed, located in the same file > > > as all the previous images. I have even saved them and re-saved just > > > to make sure they are there. > > > > Does anyone have any other suggestions about what might be going on? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best, > > > Jen > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > e-prime%2Bunsubscribe at googlegroups.com> > > . > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > attachment > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer > > system: > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From blankman77 at gmail.com Wed Mar 17 19:13:43 2010 From: blankman77 at gmail.com (blankman77 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:13:43 -0700 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: <5827D491-F127-42C6-9625-058AFEA570AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Andrew, I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 floating around? Please let me know if you find a solution to this problem and I will do that same. -also Andrew On Jan 21, 2:45?pm, andrew hill wrote: > hi folks, > > has anyone experienced this? ?previously working eprime scripts are now failing due to display refresh problems, when running in WinXP / Parallels on a Macbook Pro. (error -999 pointing at script line that checks for valid refresh rates). ?these scripts still work on "regular" windows machines. > > this is true for any script, including the PST-provided samples.. ?i've tried to set the script to inherit display resolution, or manually set the resolution, but it doesn't work.. the script gets as far as collecting subject # / session #, but then fails.. > > i remember having this problem once before on an iMac, and i believe i fixed it somehow, but i cannot for the life of me figure out how to, now. > > anyone have any suggestions or ideas, either in how to adjust the Parallels settings or to disable the refresh rate check and get around this issue? > > thanks, > andrew -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 17 23:20:12 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:20:12 -0400 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: blankman77 at gmail.com wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, > I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why > this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup > for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this > occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 > floating around? This is exactly why we disable the autoupdate on every E-Prime installation, we do not like surprises. Instead we manually download the update files directly from PST and then carefully deploy them, on our own schedule. It is also why I keep a collection of installation files for every version of E-Prime that we have ever installed, saved in multiple locations, so that we can always roll back to any previously working version. You might want to adopt the same practice. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 02:33:21 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:33:21 -0700 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem Message-ID: Hello everyone! I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. Problem is: 90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive presentations are not allowed. I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. Thanks in advance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ekoren2 at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 11:38:27 2010 From: ekoren2 at gmail.com (Eli Koren) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:38:27 +0200 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer Message-ID: Hi There! I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left so i wrote this script: if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then stim1.Cresp ="x" elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then stim1.Cresp ="z" end if end if It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this script? Thanks ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 12:14:54 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 05:14:54 -0700 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Eli, If I remember correctly I never got such a direct way of manipulating the CRESP funtion to work either. I guess it has something to do with slide.cresp being a function (?) of the slideobject and not an attribute in a list for instance (I'm not good at the official coding language ;) ) I use a detour way now, that I've described in this post: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/msg/ad18d7e4f85bce84 I think it will help you out :) Best, liw On Mar 18, 12:38?pm, Eli Koren wrote: > Hi There! > > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left > so i wrote this script: > > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then > stim1.Cresp ="x" > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then > stim1.Cresp ="z" > end if > end if > > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this > script? > > Thanks > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 13:09:14 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (dkmcf) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:09:14 -0700 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eli, If you want to manipulate the correct response by changing .CRESP in code, then you have to do that *before* your input mask runs, not after. Once an input mask gets a response it scores that response using the latest value of .CRESP, so changing .CRESP after the fact does no good. So, either change .CRESP before your input mask runs, or, as liw suggested, use code after the response to score the response directly, i.e., make your change directly to .ACC (based directly on, e.g., handedness and .RESP) instead of to .CRESP. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Mar 18, 7:38?am, Eli Koren wrote: > Hi There! > > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left > so i wrote this script: > > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then > stim1.Cresp ="x" > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then > stim1.Cresp ="z" > end if > end if > > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this > script? > > Thanks > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Mar 18 13:49:33 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:49:33 -0000 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem In-Reply-To: <039960f2-1287-4833-9536-96d3e704a842@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, What's so stupid about the question? Okay, I get that the problem is quite easily explained, but once you'd be able to exactly state how one would do something about it to solve it, just with words, it's a breeze to solve in programming. In a way, finding it really simple (but not knowing how), is similar to what most of us deal with in daily life once we're trying to really explain what we're working on in psychology: 'I'm trying to understand how people segregate objects from the background'... reply: 'what's so difficult about that?'... 'so you tell me how a brain can do this?' ... 'well, you just *DO* it, see? Simple!' Anyway, never mind the rant (bit sick, feel like ranting), here's a stupid way to solve your problem: Dim myTrials(90) as integer Dim I as integer Dim thistry as integer For I = 1 to 90 myTrials(I) = I mod 10 Next I TryAgain: 'this is the syntax for a label RandomizeArray myTrials 'randomising the array Thistry = thistry + 1 Debug.print "Try " & cstr(Thistry) 'so that we can see how often it randomised it For I = 1 to 89 If myTrials(I) = myTrials(I+1) then goto TryAgain 'very ugly programming, but should work. Next I ...Something like that. Basically, we keep on randomising until no subsequent number is the same as the current. Then have a trialcountervariable that is updated every trial and dosomething like c.SetAttrib "myFavouriteAttribute", myTrials(trialcountervariable). Can't check if my syntax is correct now though (failed install of the net station package files, and now e-prime doesn't work anymore). Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo Sent: 18 March 2010 02:33 To: E-Prime Subject: the most stupid randomization problem Hello everyone! I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. Problem is: 90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive presentations are not allowed. I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. Thanks in advance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Thu Mar 18 13:56:27 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:56:27 -0000 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, 1. I assume your CorrectAnswer is an attribute, yes? Why don't you just change that then? That way, logging will also be more consistent... 2. No need for { }: (unless you use {SPACE} or something) If c.GetAttrib ("Handedness") <> "left" then If stim1.CResp = "/" then stim1.Cresp = "x" 'plethora of other ways of writing this, I just like this one best If stim1.Cresp = "." Then stim1.Cresp = "." End if Or even, assuming it's a 2 response force choice task: If c.GetAttrib ("Handedness") <> "left" then If c.GetAttrib("CorrectAnswer") = "/" then c.SetAttrib "CorrectAnswer", "x" else c.SetAttrib "CorrectAnswer, "." End if Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eli Koren Sent: 18 March 2010 11:38 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: changing CorrectAnswer Hi There! I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left so i wrote this script: if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then stim1.Cresp ="x" elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then stim1.Cresp ="z" end if end if It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this script? Thanks ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 14:56:53 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:56:53 -0400 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem In-Reply-To: <039960f2-1287-4833-9536-96d3e704a842@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hmm, interesting puzzle, not your typical "randomize without consecutive repeats" problem. First let's make sure that I have it right. Your stimuli consist of single digits from 0 to 9, and you want to present these in a somewhat random trial sequence such that each stimulus follows every other stimulus (except itself) exactly once. Do I have that right so far? If so, then I believe you will need 91 trials to do this, and the final trial will always be the same as the first. Also, although PST's bogosort- (look that up on Wikipedia) style algorithm in their NoRepeat.es example may work in simple cases, it would almost certainly fail to produce a solution in any reasonable time for your criteria. And you would still need to write the code to filter for your criteria (which are more complicated than merely no consecutive repeats), which would present another tough challenge. The method I present here may be no easier to program, but at least it does provide a full solution that will run in a deterministic time frame. Now, I like to think of these puzzles in terms of how I would do them manually with decks of cards or with pencil and paper. I also like to reduce them to a simpler example and then scale up later. So let's look at how we might arrange a sequence of simply 1, 2, and 3 following your criteria. I might start by writing a list of all trial (or stimulus) transitions that meet our criteria, and then shuffle that list. Note that for 1 2 3 we have six such possible transitional pairs, and here is one such list for the sake of discussion (note there are 6! = 720 possible such shuffled lists for 1 2 3): 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 3 3 1 3 2 Now, I start with the first pair, 1 2, and cross that off the list. I then look for the next unused pair that begins with 2, which in this case is 2 1. So I append the 1 to our full trial sequence (bringing it to 1 2 1) and cross that pair off the list. Then I look for the next unused pair that begins with 1 (cycling through to the top of the list if necessary), and that brings us to 1 3. So we append 3 to our full sequence. Next we come to 3 1, and append 1 to our sequence. Next we come to ... oh oh! No more unused pairs that start with 1 to pick up, and we still have 2 3 and 3 2 left over. Well then, we just move down to 3 2 instead, and append 2 to our sequence. Next we get to 2 3, and finally to 3 1, and that brings our full sequence to (drum roll, please), 1 2 1 3 2 3 1. Please check my work now and make sure that I got it right. And note that our sequence consists of (nStim * (nStim-1) + 1) = 7 trials, and starts and ends with 1. Then try this with some examples of your own and see how it works. Now you merely have to implement that in E-Prime code, and I leave that as a programming exercise. If it were me I might well first work this out in Excel with a combination of Excel functions and custom Excel VBA macros, starting with the simplest example as above and then scaling up to my full stimulus set. Once I got it all working in Excel I would then port it over to E-Prime. Now here is another way to see the same algorithm, and in a way that may make it more programmable. This time, for each stimulus we make a separate list of what stimuli may follow it, and shuffle each list separately. For stimuli 1 2 3 we get three lists, e.g., 1 2 3 - - - 2 1 2 3 3 1 This time, we start by picking one list at random, say, 2. So we start our full trial sequence with 2, and take the next unused item in list 2, i.e., 1. Append that to our sequence (now 2 1), then take the next unused item from list 1 to append to our sequence (2 1 2). Back to list 2, next unused item is 3, take that (2 1 2 3). Over to list 3, next unused item is 2 (2 1 2 3 2). Oops! No more items in list 2. So return that 2 to list 3 and instead take the next item, 1 (2 1 2 3 1). Over to list 1, next unused item is 3 (2 1 2 3 1 3). On to list 3, pick up that remaining 1, and we are done: 2 1 2 3 1 3 1. Voila! Once again, I now leave this algorithm as an E-Prime programming exercise. Note that this algorithm may be generalized to handle a wide variety of randomization with constraint problems. Finally, astute readers will notice that I have here presented a scaled-down version of the beautiful algorithm published in Remillard, G., & Clark, J. M. (1999) "Generating fixed-length sequences statisfying any given nth-order transition probability matrix", Beh Res Meth, Instr, & Computers 31: 235-243 (and refined more recently in Remillard, G. (2008) "A program for generating randomized simple and context-sensitive sequences", Beh Res Meth 40 (2): 484-492). I highly advise all to look at those fine papers. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." Edsger W. Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'", http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html . leylo wrote: > I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post > this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would > really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I > have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. > > Problem is: 90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that > every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive > presentations are not allowed. > > I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get > the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so > great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if > someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. > > Thanks in advance! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 17:34:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:34:54 -0400 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Eli, With all that said, how about if we think outside the frame of your question as posed and see how to do this with no code at all? Here's how: In your TrialList, add two columns called CorrectLeft and CorrectRight. Fill these in with the correct assignments for left & right. Now, in the Correct property of your Stim1 object, enter the following exactly: [Correct[Handedness]] Note the use of nested brackets. Now on each trial, using the inner brackets Stim1 will construct an attribute reference from Correct[Handedness], either Correctleft or Correctright (note that E-Prime ignores case here). Then it will use that value in the outer brackets to get the correct value from the desired column. Isn't that slick? I tested this and it really does work for me. Who would have thought that E-Prime allows nested attribute references using the bracket notation? Nice feature, now that we know, so thanks for the question! -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Eli, > >If you want to manipulate the correct response by changing .CRESP in >code, then you have to do that *before* your input mask runs, not >after. Once an input mask gets a response it scores that response >using the latest value of .CRESP, so changing .CRESP after the fact >does no good. > >So, either change .CRESP before your input mask runs, or, as liw >suggested, use code after the response to score the response directly, >i.e., make your change directly to .ACC (based directly on, e.g., >handedness and .RESP) instead of to .CRESP. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >On Mar 18, 7:38 am, Eli Koren wrote: > > Hi There! > > > > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left > > so i wrote this script: > > > > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then > > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then > > stim1.Cresp ="x" > > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then > > stim1.Cresp ="z" > > end if > > end if > > > > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this > > script? > > > > Thanks > > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From blankman77 at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 18:34:59 2010 From: blankman77 at gmail.com (blankman77 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:34:59 -0700 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: <4BA163AC.2040406@msu.edu> Message-ID: Yeah. I was able to roll back my version of eprime 2.0 using the original disk. So far, this has allowed me to run programs again. I definitely suggest you try this, other Andrew. On Mar 17, 6:20?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > blankma... at gmail.com wrote: > > Hi Andrew, > > > I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, > > I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why > > this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup > > for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this > > occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 > > floating around? > > This is exactly why we disable the autoupdate on every E-Prime > installation, we do not like surprises. ?Instead we manually download > the update files directly from PST and then carefully deploy them, on > our own schedule. ?It is also why I keep a collection of installation > files for every version of E-Prime that we have ever installed, saved in > multiple locations, so that we can always roll back to any previously > working version. ?You might want to adopt the same practice. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From neurodrum at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 20:34:24 2010 From: neurodrum at gmail.com (andrew hill) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:34:24 -0700 Subject: Parallels issues In-Reply-To: <43da2efe-066b-4ce9-a849-6cb72f2f1f9b@r1g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: thanks - this was after an update, or rather a re-install on a new machine.. what version did you find works? i'll try to find that installer. thanks, andrew On Mar 18, 2010, at 11:34 AM, blankman77 at gmail.com wrote: > Yeah. I was able to roll back my version of eprime 2.0 using the > original disk. So far, this has allowed me to run programs again. I > definitely suggest you try this, other Andrew. > > On Mar 17, 6:20 pm, David McFarlane wrote: >> blankma... at gmail.com wrote: >>> Hi Andrew, >> >>> I had exactly the same problem. It started last month as well. So far, >>> I have not found any solution to it. I am really curious as to why >>> this would suddenly come up after E-prime ran perfectly on this setup >>> for over a year. Did you happen to update eprime just before this >>> occurred? Do you know if there are older versions of eprime 2.0 >>> floating around? >> >> This is exactly why we disable the autoupdate on every E-Prime >> installation, we do not like surprises. Instead we manually download >> the update files directly from PST and then carefully deploy them, on >> our own schedule. It is also why I keep a collection of installation >> files for every version of E-Prime that we have ever installed, saved in >> multiple locations, so that we can always roll back to any previously >> working version. You might want to adopt the same practice. >> >> -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 18 20:48:45 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:48:45 -0400 Subject: changing CorrectAnswer In-Reply-To: <4ba26447.5944f10a.25eb.0ed1SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Oh, and if you find the nested bracket notation just too disturbing, then you can always revert to a more ordinary E-Prime way of doing things. In this case, in your TrialList make *three* columns, named CorrectLeft, CorrectRight, and just Correct. Fill in CorrectLeft and CorrectRight as before, and in Correct just put "Correct[Handedness]" (without the quotes). Now in the Correct property of Stim1, just put "[Correct]". Now everything will work pretty much as described earlier, but in a way that may not freak out folks quite as much as the nested brackets. In fact, I came up with this way first on the way to figuring out the full nested bracket approach. It's all up to you. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Eli, > >With all that said, how about if we think outside the frame of your >question as posed and see how to do this with no code at all? Here's how: > >In your TrialList, add two columns called CorrectLeft and >CorrectRight. Fill these in with the correct assignments for left & >right. Now, in the Correct property of your Stim1 object, enter the >following exactly: >[Correct[Handedness]] > >Note the use of nested brackets. Now on each trial, using the inner >brackets Stim1 will construct an attribute reference from >Correct[Handedness], either Correctleft or Correctright (note that >E-Prime ignores case here). Then it will use that value in the >outer brackets to get the correct value from the desired column. > >Isn't that slick? I tested this and it really does work for >me. Who would have thought that E-Prime allows nested attribute >references using the bracket notation? Nice feature, now that we >know, so thanks for the question! > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >>Eli, >> >>If you want to manipulate the correct response by changing .CRESP in >>code, then you have to do that *before* your input mask runs, not >>after. Once an input mask gets a response it scores that response >>using the latest value of .CRESP, so changing .CRESP after the fact >>does no good. >> >>So, either change .CRESP before your input mask runs, or, as liw >>suggested, use code after the response to score the response directly, >>i.e., make your change directly to .ACC (based directly on, e.g., >>handedness and .RESP) instead of to .CRESP. >> >>-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >> >> >>On Mar 18, 7:38 am, Eli Koren wrote: >> > Hi There! >> > >> > I want to change the CorrectAnswer if handedness is left >> > so i wrote this script: >> > >> > if c.GetAttrib("handedness") <>"left" then >> > if stim1.Cresp ="{/}" then >> > stim1.Cresp ="x" >> > elseif stim1.Cresp ="{.}" then >> > stim1.Cresp ="z" >> > end if >> > end if >> > >> > It doesn't change the CorrectAnswer so what's wrong with this >> > script? >> > >> > Thanks >> > ELi Koren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hyungwook.yim at gmail.com Thu Mar 18 21:01:54 2010 From: hyungwook.yim at gmail.com (HW) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:01:54 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? Message-ID: I am doing memory experiments for child (memorizing two paired list) and I have good distractor tasks that should go after each list, before the test. something like: --------------------------- [list 1] -> [distractor task] -> [list 2] -> [distractor task] -> [test] cat-dog apple - orange big-small cup-mug ..... .... -------------------------------- However, I can't find out how to embed the flash game in EPrime... Is it possible? (1) I've tried to stop Eprime for a while by pressing "Control + ESC" but this would make Eprime stop~! (2) I've tried to make two experiment programs each for list1 and list2, so that I could use the flash game independently. But then I can't randomize the words as a whole - I need to randomly pull out the word for each list from the same pool. (3) related to #(2) is there a way to save the results that eprime computed and use it in another experiment? - I was thinking of making the first program(program 1) generate two random list of words from a pool and use half of it in the current experiment, save the other half in a file. Then the second program reads the file and uses the list of words that program1 had already generated~! Is this possible? I hope somebody could give some advice~! :) or... I should I just have to forget randomizing things perfectly... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 00:32:32 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:32:32 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment Message-ID: Hello dear members, Thanks for this group, here I have find a lot of stuff and want to thanks also Michiel Spape for his very nice PDF on Eprime... I finally write this message because I give up... it's nearly 01:00 and now I'm looking for help because I feel blind... I'm putting together an experiment about "mere exposure paradigm"/ Zajonc stuff... In a first part, I just want to expose 8 stimuli with 4 different exposure frequency (1/3/6/9)... I want to randomize both the order of presentation and the different exposure frequency... It's a intrasubject experiment and the most important is to random the assignment of stimuli to exposure frequency conditions. I'm trying to do this through nested lists, and have successfully randomized the order of stimuli, but am stumped on how to randomize stimuli to the different frequency exposure. It seems like it shouldn't be that hard, and maybe I'm just being dense, but I can't figure it out. Anyone have any ideas? I try something with the nested list but can't figure how I can do to random the frequency. In the second part, I would like to expose each 8 stimuli one by one to measure the attitude toward it so I need to know for each subject wich stimuli have been randomized on frequency. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 09:02:08 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:02:08 -0700 Subject: the most stupid randomization problem In-Reply-To: <4BA23F35.4050704@msu.edu> Message-ID: You are so kind, I really can't thank you enough for your advice and replies. You understood everything perfectly, and gave me such a great explanations. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!! On 18 Mar, 15:56, David McFarlane wrote: > Hmm, interesting puzzle, not your typical "randomize without consecutive > repeats" problem. ?First let's make sure that I have it right. ?Your > stimuli consist of single digits from 0 to 9, and you want to present > these in a somewhat random trial sequence such that each stimulus > follows every other stimulus (except itself) exactly once. ?Do I have > that right so far? ?If so, then I believe you will need 91 trials to do > this, and the final trial will always be the same as the first. ?Also, > although PST's bogosort- (look that up on Wikipedia) style algorithm in > their NoRepeat.es example may work in simple cases, it would almost > certainly fail to produce a solution in any reasonable time for your > criteria. ?And you would still need to write the code to filter for your > criteria (which are more complicated than merely no consecutive > repeats), which would present another tough challenge. ?The method I > present here may be no easier to program, but at least it does provide a > full solution that will run in a deterministic time frame. > > Now, I like to think of these puzzles in terms of how I would do them > manually with decks of cards or with pencil and paper. ?I also like to > reduce them to a simpler example and then scale up later. ?So let's look > at how we might arrange a sequence of simply 1, 2, and 3 following your > criteria. > > I might start by writing a list of all trial (or stimulus) transitions > that meet our criteria, and then shuffle that list. ?Note that for 1 2 3 > we have six such possible transitional pairs, and here is one such list > for the sake of discussion (note there are 6! = 720 possible such > shuffled lists for 1 2 3): > > 1 2 > 1 3 > 2 1 > 2 3 > 3 1 > 3 2 > > Now, I start with the first pair, 1 2, and cross that off the list. ?I > then look for the next unused pair that begins with 2, which in this > case is 2 1. ?So I append the 1 to our full trial sequence (bringing it > to 1 2 1) and cross that pair off the list. ?Then I look for the next > unused pair that begins with 1 (cycling through to the top of the list > if necessary), and that brings us to 1 3. ?So we append 3 to our full > sequence. ?Next we come to 3 1, and append 1 to our sequence. ?Next we > come to ... oh oh! ?No more unused pairs that start with 1 to pick up, > and we still have 2 3 and 3 2 left over. ?Well then, we just move down > to 3 2 instead, and append 2 to our sequence. ?Next we get to 2 3, and > finally to 3 1, and that brings our full sequence to (drum roll, please), > 1 2 1 3 2 3 1. > Please check my work now and make sure that I got it right. ?And note > that our sequence consists of (nStim * (nStim-1) + 1) = 7 trials, and > starts and ends with 1. ?Then try this with some examples of your own > and see how it works. > > Now you merely have to implement that in E-Prime code, and I leave that > as a programming exercise. ?If it were me I might well first work this > out in Excel with a combination of Excel functions and custom Excel VBA > macros, starting with the simplest example as above and then scaling up > to my full stimulus set. ?Once I got it all working in Excel I would > then port it over to E-Prime. > > Now here is another way to see the same algorithm, and in a way that may > make it more programmable. ?This time, for each stimulus we make a > separate list of what stimuli may follow it, and shuffle each list > separately. ?For stimuli 1 2 3 we get three lists, e.g., > > 1 ?2 ?3 > - ?- ?- > 2 ?1 ?2 > 3 ?3 ?1 > > This time, we start by picking one list at random, say, 2. ?So we start > our full trial sequence with 2, and take the next unused item in list 2, > i.e., 1. ?Append that to our sequence (now 2 1), then take the next > unused item from list 1 to append to our sequence (2 1 2). ?Back to list > 2, next unused item is 3, take that (2 1 2 3). ?Over to list 3, next > unused item is 2 (2 1 2 3 2). ?Oops! ?No more items in list 2. ?So > return that 2 to list 3 and instead take the next item, 1 (2 1 2 3 1). > Over to list 1, next unused item is 3 (2 1 2 3 1 3). ?On to list 3, pick > up that remaining 1, and we are done: > 2 1 2 3 1 3 1. > Voila! ?Once again, I now leave this algorithm as an E-Prime programming > exercise. > > Note that this algorithm may be generalized to handle a wide variety of > randomization with constraint problems. ?Finally, astute readers will > notice that I have here presented a scaled-down version of the beautiful > algorithm published in Remillard, G., & Clark, J. M. (1999) "Generating > fixed-length sequences statisfying any given nth-order transition > probability matrix", Beh Res Meth, Instr, & Computers 31: 235-243 ?(and > refined more recently in Remillard, G. (2008) "A program for generating > randomized simple and context-sensitive sequences", Beh Res Meth 40 (2): > 484-492). ?I highly advise all to look at those fine papers. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "When all is said and told, the 'naturalness' with which we use our > native tongues boils down to the ease with which we can use them for > making statements the nonsense of which is not obvious." ?Edsger W. > Dijkstra, "On the foolishness of 'natural language programming'",http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD667.html. > > > > leylo wrote: > > I'm really new in this world of e-prime, and I am embarassed to post > > this question that will probably make you all laugh, but I would > > really appreciate your help because I'm stuck with this part and I > > have to finish this experiment, and I have to do it fast. > > > Problem is: ?90 trials of random numbers from 0 to 9, but so that > > every number follow every other once and only once, and consecutive > > presentations are not allowed. > > > I guess I would have to use that "No Repeat" Script, but you can get > > the idea from my question that my knowledge of programing is not so > > great, so if someone could explain this to me using my example or if > > someone have some other idea.... that would help me a lot. > > > Thanks in advance!- Nascondi testo citato > > - Mostra testo citato - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 12:03:35 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:03:35 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <02ea549e-a51a-486b-b75f-f1b99d60da8c@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Something does not work in my program, it was certainly risky to start eprime by a "mere exposure paradigm experiment", I thought it would be easier ... but now my problems are piling up seriously because even if I make all possible lists of all possible combinations of frequencies between these stimuli, I am in a second block to assess the stimuli (single trials) with Likert scale but this must be conditioned by the frequency of exposure ... I try, I try, if I find a way I describe here my whole protocol, hoping that I find the elegant way, without entering the hundreds of possible combinations by hand ... I'd have to connect these lists, such as a list A with 8 to stimuli in a random draw, with exclusion list B (8 stimuli - stimuli random list A), list C (8 stimuli - stimuli random from A and B) ... etc. I have to get there because I want to use eprime is so much fun and easy as Inquisition ... I have a few hours to find a way to get through this but if someone has a runway, an idea, a vision, a different architecture to do that, I'm on the lookout ... I try many things with colon syntax, nested list, attributes .. but it does not as it should! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hyungwook.yim at gmail.com Fri Mar 19 11:54:33 2010 From: hyungwook.yim at gmail.com (HW) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:54:33 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? In-Reply-To: <43f3bdce-c36e-4611-b81c-24a878271f3c@g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: The experiment again ~ :) [list 1] -> [distractor task] -> [list 2] -> [distractor task] -> [test] cat-dog apple - orange big-small cup-mug ..... .... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 12:15:13 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:15:13 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <02ea549e-a51a-486b-b75f-f1b99d60da8c@t41g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: will try to describe simplify the protocol I'm trying to write. The paradigm of mere exposure effect follows a mechanism in two steps: the first is the presentation of a set of stimulus items (8 items presented several times by a variable frequency of exposure), the second step is the evaluation these stimuli. There is a first block (mere exposure of stimuli) and a second block or each stimulus is presented individually and measure the attitude of each subject for all the stimuli of the battery. So simple enough but it is clean everything must this be done by random, to avoid any effect of order of stimuli. In premoier block, therefore it is assigned a random stimuli with a term frequency site exhibits - 4 terms, 1/3/6/9 - 38 exhibits from the battery of items. There are two random to make the order and assignment-frequency stimuli. Then, the second block must have the 8 stimuli one by one but the dependent variable will record the score as a function of frequency of exposure ... I then subjected to two points, the frequency assignment to present the stimuli and the assignment to the frequency on the dependent variable also ... The headache Chinese, voila j'espere have been more clear on this last message. Thank you to those who take the time to read and whatever happens, I'll post my Protcol if I happen to win it Thank you all, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 19 14:20:54 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:20:54 -0400 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <02ea549e-a51a-486b-b75f-f1b99d60da8c@t41g2000yqt.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... By "randomize ... different exposure frequency" I suppose you mean you want to control the List Weights for the different trials in your trial List. In that case, I see two approaches: 1) If you have a small number of sets of Weight assignments, then make a separate List for each set of weights. Enclose each List in its own Procedure. Then use each of those Procedures in a different row of an outer block List, and set that List to random order, etc. 2) Otherwise, adjust the List Weights directly from inline code using List.SetWeight and List.Reset. For more information on that, look in the online E-Basic Help, and search this Group and the PST Forum using terms like "setweight". And once again, do not neglect PST Web Support (http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp ), that's what it is for. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 3/18/2010 08:32 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Thanks for this group, here I have find a lot of stuff and want to >thanks also Michiel Spape for his very nice PDF on Eprime... > >I finally write this message because I give up... it's nearly 01:00 >and now I'm looking for help because I feel blind... > >I'm putting together an experiment about "mere exposure paradigm"/ >Zajonc stuff... In a first part, I just want to expose 8 stimuli with >4 different exposure frequency (1/3/6/9)... I want to randomize both >the order of presentation and the different exposure frequency... > >It's a intrasubject experiment and the most important is to random the >assignment of stimuli to exposure frequency conditions. I'm trying >to do this through nested lists, and have successfully randomized the >order of stimuli, but am stumped on how to randomize stimuli to the >different frequency exposure. It seems like it shouldn't be that >hard, and maybe I'm just being dense, but I can't figure it out. >Anyone have any ideas? > >I try something with the nested list but can't figure how I can do to >random the frequency. > >In the second part, I would like to expose each 8 stimuli one by one >to measure the attitude toward it so I need to know for each subject >wich stimuli have been randomized on frequency. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Fri Mar 19 14:45:20 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 07:45:20 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <4ba38847.5944f10a.1b33.6c55SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you David I noticed and contacted the media Eprime to ask my question because I hope to find the elegant answer, the real implementation of my program variables. For now, I try to find a way since Monday morning, I want my program installed in the experimental hall. I made a program under inquisitorial but I really want to succeed by eprime! My problem is rather random assignment between stimuli and frequency of exposure. I'll watch with weights, but I already tried with 6 stimuli nested into each other and 3 weight, there are 729 possible combinations of these stimuli ... thank you for the info, I must find a way not to enter into the 729 lists blockproc:) with the nested list I should be able to do something to prevent it, for sure, it would be irrational ... :). To randomize the order or different lists that rotate in a block, no problem, but to control the variable frequency, I am a bit lost ... I continue the fight, I'll find! thank you and thank you to David for these tracks, I dig. Thank you to this group exists to share all this knowledge ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From julie.gonn at gmail.com Sat Mar 20 21:50:47 2010 From: julie.gonn at gmail.com (Julie Gonn) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:50:47 -0700 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen Message-ID: Hello, I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? Many thanks in advance, Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 10:14:21 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed Kenett) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:14:21 +0200 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hi thank you so much for your help i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to record keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i have managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program to code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and still when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not hebrew characters. what is my next step? On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > Welcome back Yoed. > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > where exactly. > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > steps or not. > > Best, > > liw > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > hi there > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > can anyone help me with this? > > thanks > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giladsabo at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 13:15:09 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:15:09 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <48251bb71003210314o6d4f995apef97ac0356355064@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 21 ???, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > hi > thank you so much for your help > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to record > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i have > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program to > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and still > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > hebrew characters. > what is my next step? > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > where exactly. > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > steps or not. > > > Best, > > > liw > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > hi there > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin characters > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > thanks > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > Yoed Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal once windows support Hebrew. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 14:07:23 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:07:23 -0700 Subject: Voice and mouse response Message-ID: Hi all, In my experiment I record voice RTs-it's a simple flanker task. However, as I'm working also with children and as sometimes the SRB may miss the voice response I also want to add key press to the very same slide. Meaning that it goes like that: slide one-stimulus +flankers : subject have to sound his/her answer and simultaneously press the right click of the mouse. Only then the next step in the trial will run. Slide two (step two in the trial)-the expreminter press 1 or 2 (1 is correct answer) and had the exprimenter press 2 (incorrect answer) he/she had then to indicate the what was participant response. so, over all I have here 2 slides-one is the experiment and it must be able to collect both SRB and mouse RTs. The other must be able to collect two responses:one mark the answer of participant and the other, in a case of wrong answer, indicate what was the answer. I tried to solve it with an askbox that get string only in a case of accuracy=0. It work well but it interrupt with the experimental design itself. So my question is how can I collect both RTs from the SRB and the mouse in the same slide object. And how can I collect then after, in the experimenter slide (the experimenter is present in the room all along the experiment, sitting near the participant and controling the keyboard) to insert the participant response when he/she wrong without using askbox? If you can answer me in detail or to refer me to previous post which do this in this group I will be grateful once again. Regards Gilis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 14:03:18 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed Kenett) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:03:18 +0200 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <7f937e65-ef37-4ad2-ba6b-fc8d49314bae@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: hi the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > On 21 ???, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > hi > > thank you so much for your help > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to > record > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i > have > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program > to > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and > still > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > > hebrew characters. > > what is my next step? > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > > where exactly. > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > > steps or not. > > > > > Best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > hi there > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > characters > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > thanks > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > Yoed > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > once windows support Hebrew. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giladsabo at gmail.com Sun Mar 21 20:27:45 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:27:45 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <48251bb71003210703g350d22bcub8625f0c77f2eaa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Appologize for the silly reply... On 21 ???, 16:03, Yoed Kenett wrote: > hi > the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... > > > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > On 21 ???, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > hi > > > thank you so much for your help > > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to > > record > > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i > > have > > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program > > to > > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and > > still > > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > > > hebrew characters. > > > what is my next step? > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > > > where exactly. > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > > > steps or not. > > > > > Best, > > > > > liw > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > > hi there > > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > > characters > > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > > thanks > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > Yoed > > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > > once windows support Hebrew. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- > Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From A.McGuffie at Coventry.ac.uk Mon Mar 22 10:08:07 2010 From: A.McGuffie at Coventry.ac.uk (Evertox) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:08:07 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? In-Reply-To: <43f3bdce-c36e-4611-b81c-24a878271f3c@g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Is this a swf file re-named? An FLV file is usually a video file. If this is a true FLV video file then just convert it to an mpeg. If it is an interactive game then it is probably an swf file. On 18 Mar, 21:01, HW wrote: > I am doing memory experiments for child (memorizing two paired list) > > ?and I have good distractor tasks that should go after each list, > before the test. > > something like: > --------------------------- > [list 1] ? ? ? ?-> ? [distractor task] ?-> ? ? ? [list 2] ? ? ? -> > [distractor task] -> [test] > cat-dog ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? apple - orange > big-small ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?cup-mug > ?..... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?.... > -------------------------------- > > However, I can't find out how to embed the flash game in EPrime... Is > it possible? > > (1) I've tried to stop Eprime for a while by pressing "Control + ESC" > but this would make Eprime stop~! > > (2) I've tried to make two experiment programs each for list1 and > list2, so that I could use the flash game independently. > ?But then I can't randomize the words as a whole - I need to randomly > pull out the word for each list from the same pool. > > (3) related to #(2) is there a way to save the results that eprime > computed and use it in another experiment? > ?- I was thinking of making the first program(program 1) generate two > random list of words from a pool and use half of it in the current > experiment, save the other half in a file. Then the second program > reads the file and uses the list of words that program1 had already > generated~! > > Is this possible? > > I hope somebody could give some advice~! :) > > or... I should I just have to forget randomizing things perfectly... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 13:16:22 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:16:22 -0700 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen In-Reply-To: <7290f22d-0ddb-4388-80b2-db79567b37dc@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Julie, there is no stopwatch function I'd know of, but there might be a way of implementing one. If you need an anolog clock, you will probably have to go for bitmaps. You could make bitmaps for each stopwatch state and then let them run in a row. Note that the stop watch will not change more often than the screen can change, e.g. every 10 ms for a 100 Hz screen. If a digital stopwatch will do it, I guess it is much easier. You just need a textdisplay with an embedded variable that runs in a loop. How to exactly implement that also depends on what purpose you need the stopwatch for. Are participants just to watch it or also react to the stopwatch? Cheers, Tobias On 20 Mrz., 22:50, Julie Gonn wrote: > Hello, > > I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop > watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. > Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), > and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. > I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be > possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? > > Many thanks in advance, > Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 22 15:13:37 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:13:37 -0000 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen In-Reply-To: <7290f22d-0ddb-4388-80b2-db79567b37dc@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi, Are you doing a Libet thing? Anyway, what you want can be quite easy or difficult, depending on the amount of coding you're interested in. What I often do, during a break, is something like For I = 120 to 1 step -1 myBreakScreen.Text = "Have a break for " & cstr(i) & " seconds!" myBreakScreen.Run Next I With myBreakscreen being merely an empty textDisplay, let's call it myBreakScreen. You could tweak this by using a slide with a picture of a stopwatch, embedding an attribute into that, say [TimeLeft] and doing the following: For I = 120 to 1 step -1 c.SetAttrib "TimeLeft", i myBreakScreen.Run Next I Voila! Of course, all these interruptions and whatnot need to be taken into account, so you might have a little more difficulty in getting this to work, but I suppose this is enough as a proof of concept? Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Julie Gonn Sent: 20 March 2010 21:51 To: E-Prime Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen Hello, I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? Many thanks in advance, Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From wangshusandra at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 20:22:38 2010 From: wangshusandra at gmail.com (Sandra Wang) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:22:38 -0700 Subject: Count Trials Message-ID: Hello, I am a beginner in E-prime and I am currently putting together an study where I would like to terminate the whole experiment when subjects have, say, 8 correct consecutive responses (CCR). There are 14 blocks and 16 trials in each block. So subjects can make 8 correct responses in a row either within the 16 trials in a block or across two block ( e.g., get the last two trials correct in the first block and first 6 trials correct in the second block). I used the following scripts for the trial list as well as the block list. But it only worked when 8 CCR was made within a block, when across two blocks, the experiment was terminated when only 7 CCR was made. Please help!!! For the trial list: For the block list: If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 Else Else TrialCount = 0 TrialCount = 0 End If End If If TrialCount >= 8 Then If TrialCount >= 8 Then Expllist.Terminate Explblock.Terminate Else Else CriterionMet = False CriterionMet = False Thanks very much, Sandra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 22 21:10:31 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:10:31 -0400 Subject: Display a stop watch on the screen In-Reply-To: <7290f22d-0ddb-4388-80b2-db79567b37dc@x12g2000yqx.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Hmm, how about the CountDownClock.es example on the PST download site? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder. At 3/20/2010 05:50 PM Saturday, you wrote: >I'm designing an experiment (E-prime 1.1) for which I need a stop >watch to appear on the screen during the experiment. >Pictures appear for 2 seconds (interrupted by cross fixations 500 ms), >and I need subjects to monitor the time as pictures unfold. >I have found no information on the website. I wonder if it could be >possible to do such a thing and, if so, can someone help me? > >Many thanks in advance, >Julie -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 10:53:18 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:53:18 -0700 Subject: Count Trials In-Reply-To: <4643b150-a2ce-4058-8eb4-802c65bcf8dc@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hey Sandra, The doubling thing of the script you posted confuses me a bit... Am I correct to think that there are two inlines both containing an almost identical script in your experiment? One attached to a blockprocedure and another one to a trialprocedure?? Then that where it goes wrong... Imagine that the blockprocedure runs once.... it first encounters the list and runs it: 14 x a trialprocedure and on each trialprocedure it also encounters the other inline with this script and for a correct response it adds 1 to trialcount... Now after the 14 levels of the list have run... it continues the blockprocedure and encounters the inline that tells it to add 1 to trialcount if stimpress.acc =1.. but this correct response was already added by the other copy of the script on the trialproc.... and thus: trialcount = 8 is reached after 7 correct. I think you should simply get rid of the script on the blockproc and keep the one on the trialproc as you need the inline to be run once every trial. I am not too sure why you have a blockproc but couldn't you get rid of it altogether? Of course, I don't have the complete information but if you use the blockproc only to initiate the triallist an x number of times (and not to differentiate between different triallists for instance) than it would be more elegant to tell the 14 level triallist to run an x number of cycles: one cycle is one 'run' of each level and once all 14 levels have been run it starts again with running all levels once for the next cycle. Your script will then only need expllist.terminate, if you decide to keep the blockproc, I think that just terminating the blocklist (instead of one script for terminating blocklist and another for terminating the triallist) will suffice for your needs. => consider removing your blockproc => definitely remove one version of the script. Best, liwenna 'This inline organises that the practicetrials are ended when the subject 'answered 6 or more consecutive trials correct and has practiced at least 10 trials. 'If after 10 trials the number of consecutive correctly answered trials is less than '6 it will continue the practicetrials until the 6-consecutive-correct criterium is met. if practicetrial.acc = 1 then practicecounter = practicecounter + 1 if practicetrial.acc = 0 then practicecounter = 0 c.setattrib "practicecorrectcount", practicecounter if c.getattrib ("practicelist.sample") > 9 and practicecounter > 5 then practicelist.terminate if practicetrial.acc = 1 then goto skiplabel On Mar 22, 9:22 pm, Sandra Wang wrote: > Hello, > > I am a beginner in E-prime and I am currently putting together an > study where I would like to terminate the whole experiment when > subjects have, say, 8 correct consecutive responses (CCR). There are > 14 blocks and 16 trials in each block. So subjects can make 8 correct > responses in a row either within the 16 trials in a block or across > two block ( e.g., get the last two trials correct in the first block > and first 6 trials correct in the second block). I used the following > scripts for the trial list as well as the block list. But it only > worked when 8 CCR was made within a block, when across two blocks, the > experiment was terminated when only 7 CCR was made. > > Please help!!! > > For the trial > list: For > the block list: > > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > Else > Else > TrialCount = 0 > TrialCount = 0 > End > If > End If > > If TrialCount >= 8 > Then If TrialCount > > >= 8 Then > > Expllist.Terminate > Explblock.Terminate > > Else > Else > CriterionMet = False > CriterionMet = False > > Thanks very much, > Sandra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 10:57:11 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:57:11 -0700 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <965d8a76-a3ce-479c-b813-f8108478fb3a@l25g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Gilis, there are no silly replies! Quite often the most obvious things get the most easily overlooked. Yoed: no luck yet I suppose? Have you taken this up with PST? For what it's worth: as reported before I do get to see wingdings on my screen but the logged responses are in "english"... i.e. letters and no fancy wingdings... On Mar 21, 9:27 pm, gilis wrote: > Appologize for the silly reply... > > On 21 ???, 16:03, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > hi > > the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... > > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > > On 21 ???, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > > hi > > > > thank you so much for your help > > > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how to > > > record > > > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help and i > > > have > > > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed is for > > > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the program > > > to > > > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced display > > > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font and > > > still > > > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in english > > > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and not > > > > hebrew characters. > > > > what is my next step? > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna wrote: > > > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and that > > > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going wrong > > > > > where exactly. > > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but that > > > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for what > > > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input tab > > > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... you can > > > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go to > > > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the font > > > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. showing on > > > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for lack of > > > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all right. > > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only enter 1 > > > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can enter > > > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, so > > > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let us > > > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the above > > > > > steps or not. > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > liw > > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > > > hi there > > > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject with a > > > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with the > > > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need the > > > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant figure > > > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > > > characters > > > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to hebrew > > > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups > > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > > Yoed > > > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > > > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > > > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > > > once windows support Hebrew. > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > -- > > Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From hyungwook.yim at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 11:30:08 2010 From: hyungwook.yim at gmail.com (HW) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:30:08 -0700 Subject: Embedding flv files in EPrime? In-Reply-To: <97d4da49-b5e8-47f6-b0f9-6d5e50840126@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Yes~! it is an interactive game... :) so it seems it is an swf file... any solutions? thanks... On 3?22?, ??6?08?, Evertox wrote: > Is this a swf file re-named? An FLV file is usually a video file. If > this is a true FLV video file then just convert it to an mpeg. > If it is an interactive game then it is probably an swf file. > > On 18 Mar, 21:01, HW wrote:> I am doing memory experiments for child (memorizing two paired list) > > > and I have good distractor tasks that should go after each list, > > before the test. > > > something like: > > --------------------------- > > [list 1] -> [distractor task] -> [list 2] -> > > [distractor task] -> [test] > > cat-dog apple - orange > > big-small cup-mug > > ..... .... > > -------------------------------- > > > However, I can't find out how to embed the flash game in EPrime... Is > > it possible? > > > (1) I've tried to stop Eprime for a while by pressing "Control + ESC" > > but this would make Eprime stop~! > > > (2) I've tried to make two experiment programs each for list1 and > > list2, so that I could use the flash game independently. > > But then I can't randomize the words as a whole - I need to randomly > > pull out the word for each list from the same pool. > > > (3) related to #(2) is there a way to save the results that eprime > > computed and use it in another experiment? > > - I was thinking of making the first program(program 1) generate two > > random list of words from a pool and use half of it in the current > > experiment, save the other half in a file. Then the second program > > reads the file and uses the list of words that program1 had already > > generated~! > > > Is this possible? > > > I hope somebody could give some advice~! :) > > > or... I should I just have to forget randomizing things perfectly... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From yoedkenett at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 11:55:01 2010 From: yoedkenett at gmail.com (Yoed Kenett) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:55:01 +0200 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <58ff9881-62cc-42ff-9136-65e51fd06fb5@d37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: hi i have actually taken this up with PST and late last night i got an answer - the short version of it is no. attaching below the answer i got from them, thanks everyone for their help in this issue! ++++ Yoed, Are you using E-Prime v1.x or E-Prime 2.0? While E-Prime 2.0 is supported by the English/Western European versions of Windows XP and Vista, this really only applies to text that is displayed by the objects. That is, while the "Text" property of a TextDisplay will accept foreign characters, the other properties (including .Input and its related echo properties) will not. All non-English characters or accents will go unrecognized by E-Prime in the responses and in the text that is echoed to the screen. E-Prime 2.0 has resolved this to some degree by allowing non-English fonts to appear as responses in the data file (i.e., UNICODE fonts are permitted). However, the echo client will still only display English and the responses themselves will still be based on the QWERTY keyboard. You could get around this by manually echoing the subject's responses to the screen. For example, you could take the subject's input and then convert it to Hebrew in script, and then display this on screen (e.g., if the semicolon key is pressed, convert this to a specific character and display it on screen, etc). However, this can be fairly script intensive and would require that the Hebrew characters appear correctly in TextDisplay objects and/or Slide objects and appear correctly in InLine objects. If you are interested, I would recommend taking a look at SAMPLE:Process Responses Templatefor an example of how to change what is displayed on screen based on the subject's responses. Please let me know if you have any further questions. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:57 PM, liwenna wrote: > Gilis, there are no silly replies! Quite often the most obvious things > get the most easily overlooked. > > Yoed: no luck yet I suppose? Have you taken this up with PST? For what > it's worth: as reported before I do get to see wingdings on my screen > but the logged responses are in "english"... i.e. letters and no fancy > wingdings... > > > > > > On Mar 21, 9:27 pm, gilis wrote: > > Appologize for the silly reply... > > > > On 21 ???, 16:03, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > > > hi > > > the windows i have on my machine supports of course hebrew fonts... > > > > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, gilis wrote: > > > > > > On 21 ???, 12:14, Yoed Kenett wrote: > > > > > hi > > > > > thank you so much for your help > > > > > i just want to say in my defense that many people have told me how > to > > > > record > > > > > keyboard responses and i am quite grateful for all of their help > and i > > > > have > > > > > managed to do it through their help. what i still have not managed > is for > > > > > the subject to enter his response and see hebrew font and for the > program > > > > to > > > > > code his response in hebrew letters and english gibrish. > > > > > > > i have checked and i can select a hebrew font in my echo advanced > display > > > > > settings. i changed the font of the echo display to a hebrew font > and > > > > still > > > > > when i tried to type a response in the experiment it was still in > english > > > > > characters and also the program recorded the answer in english and > not > > > > > hebrew characters. > > > > > what is my next step? > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:59 PM, liwenna > wrote: > > > > > > Welcome back Yoed. > > > > > > > > So you still didn't solve this, hey? > > > > > > > > I think that many people already gave you their look on this and > that > > > > > > you've been asked to provide some more info on what is going > wrong > > > > > > where exactly. > > > > > > > > Last time I tried to install a hebrew font on my computer but > that > > > > > > totally crashed my account so I won't try that again... but for > what > > > > > > it's worth: I assume you do have hebrew fonts installed on your > > > > > > computer... can you choose them in e-prime?? i.e. if you have a > > > > > > textobject, can you select a hebrew font on the font option? > > > > > > > > If you make a slide and in the slide properties under the input > tab > > > > > > add the keyboard as an input device and then choose advance... > you can > > > > > > create an 'echo'... under echo tab add a display-device. Next go > to > > > > > > edit the display device and now you can choose a font under the > font > > > > > > tab which will be the font e-prime uses for the echo (i.e. > showing on > > > > > > the screen) of what is typed. I can select wingdings here (for > lack of > > > > > > hebrew font) and it will show me wingdings on the screen all > right. > > > > > > > > Don't forget to increase the max count on the general tab of the > > > > > > 'keyboard advanced properties', it it's set to 1 you can only > enter 1 > > > > > > character before the slide will 'jump'. Set it to 6 and you can > enter > > > > > > 6 character etc. Also set the the slide duration to infinite. > > > > > > > > If this works you'll still need to adjust settings on the echo, > so > > > > > > doing the above stuff won't 'finish'your experiment but just let > us > > > > > > know whether or not you receive hebrew letters if you take the > above > > > > > > steps or not. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > liw > > > > > > > > On Mar 15, 12:48 pm, Yoed wrote: > > > > > > > hi there > > > > > > > i have eprime2 and in my experiment i am presenting my subject > with a > > > > > > > visual stimuli and then ask him to write down his answer with > the > > > > > > > keyboard via echo recording. the problem i have is that i need > the > > > > > > > subject to write his response in hebrew and right now i cant > figure > > > > > > > out how to do that - only able to write a response in latin > > > > characters > > > > > > > which makes it quite difficult to convert it later back to > hebrew > > > > > > > can anyone help me with this? > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > > Groups > > > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Yoed > > > > > > Maybe what you have to do is to install windows XP with support in > > > > Hebrew. I use Hebrew on my computer regulary > > > > and also many times used Hebrew words in Eprime. It's not big deal > > > > once windows support Hebrew. > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > > "E-Prime" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > > > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > Yoed > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- Yoed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 13:03:12 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:03:12 -0700 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys Message-ID: Hi guys, I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster. I notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop. An error message appears when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run. Is there a workaround for this that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? Thanks, -Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 13:22:12 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:22:12 -0000 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <761ab85d-3c23-4d25-9393-951a1ca401e3@z11g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Matt, This bug occasionally comes up on this list (you might want to search). The answer takes longer to write than implement: screwdriver. Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Sent: 23 March 2010 13:03 To: E-Prime Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys Hi guys, I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster. I notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop. An error message appears when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run. Is there a workaround for this that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? Thanks, -Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Tue Mar 23 13:52:11 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:52:11 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? Message-ID: HELLO I have a very simple question but I'm harmful, so I can not go through with my idea. I wish to submit 6 images of your choice in one click with slide object. What I do is ask the subjects to click on the image they prefer and what choices are recorded in the dependent variable (or attribute for the result). How to make it? I want a script or a way to write (I'm beginner in programming) in order to record the results of these clicks as dependent variable. This could help launch different paths in experience from this first choice. While I am a little different variation, I take this opportunity to even ask you if a spot of prioritizing would be feasible (ie asking subjects to choose their favorite pictures and having clicked, the image is removed from the slide the subject clicking until he left image in the slide .. So it helps to know the order of preference on a picture series .. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 14:06:08 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:06:08 -0400 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02FD2FE2@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Indeed, here is my favorite thread on this, with Michiel's earlier full reply (and my slight elaboration, so I could find the thread using "epoxy" as a search term): http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/6ff76d4d7b9575f8 . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi Matt, >This bug occasionally comes up on this list (you >might want to search). The answer takes longer >to write than implement: screwdriver. >Cheers, >Mich > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew >Sent: 23 March 2010 13:03 >To: E-Prime >Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys > >Hi guys, > >I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster. I >notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system >jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop. An error message appears >when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run. Is there a workaround for this >that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? > >Thanks, >-Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 14:08:15 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:08:15 -0400 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: SlideState.HitTest. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/23/2010 09:52 AM Tuesday, you wrote: >HELLO > >I have a very simple question but I'm harmful, so I can not go through >with my idea. > >I wish to submit 6 images of your choice in one click with slide >object. > >What I do is ask the subjects to click on the image they prefer and >what choices are recorded in the dependent variable (or attribute for >the result). > >How to make it? > >I want a script or a way to write (I'm beginner in programming) in >order to record the results of these clicks as dependent variable. > >This could help launch different paths in experience from this first >choice. > >While I am a little different variation, I take this opportunity to >even ask you if a spot of prioritizing would be feasible (ie asking >subjects to choose their favorite pictures and having clicked, the >image is removed from the slide the subject clicking until he left >image in the slide .. So it helps to know the order of preference on a >picture series .. > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >Groups "E-Prime" group. >To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 14:13:00 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:13:00 -0400 Subject: entering hebrew letters as response In-Reply-To: <48251bb71003230455l653807dh5f78f8c2a4d0715@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yoed, Thanks for getting and posting the reply from PST. I wonder if any of the alternatives to E-Prime (e.g., Presentation, http://www.neurobs.com ) could do a better job of handling non-English input? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >i have actually taken this up with PST and late last night i got an >answer - the short version of it is no. attaching below the answer i >got from them, thanks everyone for their help in this issue! > >++++ > >Yoed, > >Are you using E-Prime v1.x or E-Prime 2.0? While E-Prime 2.0 is >supported by the English/Western European versions of Windows XP and >Vista, this really only applies to text that is displayed by the >objects. That is, while the "Text" property of a TextDisplay will >accept foreign characters, the other properties (including .Input >and its related echo properties) will not. All non-English >characters or accents will go unrecognized by E-Prime in the >responses and in the text that is echoed to the screen. > >E-Prime 2.0 has resolved this to some degree by allowing non-English >fonts to appear as responses in the data file (i.e., UNICODE fonts >are permitted). However, the echo client will still only display >English and the responses themselves will still be based on the >QWERTY keyboard. You could get around this by manually echoing the >subject's responses to the screen. For example, you could take the >subject's input and then convert it to Hebrew in script, and then >display this on screen (e.g., if the semicolon key is pressed, >convert this to a specific character and display it on screen, etc). >However, this can be fairly script intensive and would require that >the Hebrew characters appear correctly in TextDisplay objects and/or >Slide objects and appear correctly in InLine objects. If you are >interested, I would recommend taking a look at >SAMPLE:Process >Responses Template for an example of how to change what is displayed >on screen based on the subject's responses. > >Please let me know if you have any further questions. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 18:45:07 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:45:07 -0700 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <4ba8cad4.5944f10a.22ac.ffffeb09SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Michial & David, I did a brief search of "Windows key" before posting, but received a ton of hits, the first few pages of which didn't turn up anything useful. Wasn't sure on what keywords to use to make search more efficient. I'm running in a shared computer lab for our department. I wish I could do the epoxy/screwdriver option, but I might have to settle for the keykiller, provided that our network admin allows it. Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. Thanks again, -Matt On Mar 23, 10:06?am, David McFarlane wrote: > Indeed, here is my favorite thread on this, with > Michiel's earlier full reply (and my slight > elaboration, so I could find the thread using > "epoxy" as a search > term):http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/6ff76d4d7.... > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hi Matt, > >This bug occasionally comes up on this list (you > >might want to search). The answer takes longer > >to write than implement: screwdriver. > >Cheers, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matthew > >Sent: 23 March 2010 13:03 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys > > >Hi guys, > > >I'm running an experiment in our department's computer cluster. ?I > >notice that when I hit the Windows key on the keyboard, the system > >jumps out of E-Run to the Windows desktop. ?An error message appears > >when I try to Alt+Tab back to E-Run. ?Is there a workaround for this > >that doesn't tweak Windows registry files? > > >Thanks, > >-Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Mar 23 19:34:50 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:34:50 -0400 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <341c7026-ae0d-4fea-b7f3-f548b6628c7d@b30g2000yqd.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Matt, >Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that >allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. Let's put the blame where it belongs: It's a shame that Microsoft makes an operating system that makes it so hard to disable some of these "high priority" key commands. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From matthewdwood82 at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 20:00:18 2010 From: matthewdwood82 at gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:00:18 -0700 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <4ba917df.5944f10a.1f3e.05b8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I guess that's a more accurate framing of the problem. Where's that screwdriver :) -Matt On Mar 23, 3:34?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Matt, > > >Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that > >allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. > > > Let's put the blame where it belongs: ?It's a shame that Microsoft > makes an operating system that makes it so hard to disable some of > these "high priority" key commands. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 20:39:36 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:39:36 -0000 Subject: disabling input for specific keyboard keys In-Reply-To: <4ba917df.5944f10a.1f3e.05b8SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hey! At least in Windows, you only should not press the Windows key on the keyboard... If it'd been a mac, I wouldn't been able to lean against one side of the display which suddenly magically turns the computer off or, conversely, be able to poll the other mouse key. Also, one might blame hardware producers (I've got a TechSolo keyboard here, for instance) for putting windows keys there, rather than the OS. Oops, excuse me - I always feel the need for defending MS against the onslaught of windows-bashers... after all, those initials are pure gold! On a more informative note, you might 1) use different keys, making it pretty unlikely that your subjects press the Windows key, 2) use that screwdriver anyway and just plug back the key afterwards. Nobody will notice :) Try at home first, or, if you're really unsure, just buy one for $6 (or half that, second hand), yank out those keys and plug in the old one. Actually, old keyboards (from E-Prime 1 era, which still recommended Win98SE just about until E-Prime 2 was released) typically don't even have Win keys. Cheers, M.S. Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 23 March 2010 19:35 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: disabling input for specific keyboard keys Matt, >Its a shame there's not a function hidden in Eprime somewhere that >allows you to turn off some of these "high priority" key commands. Let's put the blame where it belongs: It's a shame that Microsoft makes an operating system that makes it so hard to disable some of these "high priority" key commands. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 10:20:07 2010 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:20:07 -0700 Subject: Count Trials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ho... I just notice this now... the last bit of the above post is to be ignored... when I start writing the post I copy pasted that piece of code that I use for practicetrials thinking I might tweak it into a script for Sandra to use, but that didn'thappen and thus I should have removed the code-part, but apparantly forgot... On Mar 23, 11:53 am, liwenna wrote: > Hey Sandra, > > The doubling thing of the script you posted confuses me a bit... > > Am I correct to think that there are two inlines both containing an > almost identical script in your experiment? One attached to a > blockprocedure and another one to a trialprocedure?? Then that where > it goes wrong... Imagine that the blockprocedure runs once.... it > first encounters the list and runs it: 14 x a trialprocedure and on > each trialprocedure it also encounters the other inline with this > script and for a correct response it adds 1 to trialcount... Now after > the 14 levels of the list have run... it continues the blockprocedure > and encounters the inline that tells it to add 1 to trialcount if > stimpress.acc =1.. but this correct response was already added by the > other copy of the script on the trialproc.... and thus: trialcount = 8 > is reached after 7 correct. > > I think you should simply get rid of the script on the blockproc and > keep the one on the trialproc as you need the inline to be run once > every trial. I am not too sure why you have a blockproc but couldn't > you get rid of it altogether? Of course, I don't have the complete > information but if you use the blockproc only to initiate the > triallist an x number of times (and not to differentiate between > different triallists for instance) than it would be more elegant to > tell the 14 level triallist to run an x number of cycles: one cycle is > one 'run' of each level and once all 14 levels have been run it starts > again with running all levels once for the next cycle. Your script > will then only need expllist.terminate, if you decide to keep the > blockproc, I think that just terminating the blocklist (instead of one > script for terminating blocklist and another for terminating the > triallist) will suffice for your needs. > > => consider removing your blockproc > => definitely remove one version of the script. > > Best, > > liwenna > > 'This inline organises that the practicetrials are ended when the > subject > 'answered 6 or more consecutive trials correct and has practiced at > least 10 trials. > 'If after 10 trials the number of consecutive correctly answered > trials is less than > '6 it will continue the practicetrials until the 6-consecutive-correct > criterium is met. > > if practicetrial.acc = 1 then practicecounter = practicecounter + 1 > > if practicetrial.acc = 0 then practicecounter = 0 > > c.setattrib "practicecorrectcount", practicecounter > > if c.getattrib ("practicelist.sample") > 9 and practicecounter > 5 > then practicelist.terminate > > if practicetrial.acc = 1 then goto skiplabel > > On Mar 22, 9:22 pm, Sandra Wang wrote: > > > Hello, > > > I am a beginner in E-prime and I am currently putting together an > > study where I would like to terminate the whole experiment when > > subjects have, say, 8 correct consecutive responses (CCR). There are > > 14 blocks and 16 trials in each block. So subjects can make 8 correct > > responses in a row either within the 16 trials in a block or across > > two block ( e.g., get the last two trials correct in the first block > > and first 6 trials correct in the second block). I used the following > > scripts for the trial list as well as the block list. But it only > > worked when 8 CCR was made within a block, when across two blocks, the > > experiment was terminated when only 7 CCR was made. > > > Please help!!! > > > For the trial > > list: For > > the block list: > > > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > > If StimPres.ACC = 1 Then > > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > > TrialCount = TrialCount + 1 > > Else > > Else > > TrialCount = 0 > > TrialCount = 0 > > End > > If > > End If > > > If TrialCount >= 8 > > Then If TrialCount > > > >= 8 Then > > > Expllist.Terminate > > Explblock.Terminate > > > Else > > Else > > CriterionMet = False > > CriterionMet = False > > > Thanks very much, > > Sandra -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Wed Mar 24 15:56:42 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:56:42 -0700 Subject: strange adding Message-ID: Hej there, I have a rather VB-related problem for a current E-Prime file. In a script I want to change an EEG marker according to a certain condition: if condition = 2 then dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker end if What E-Prime does is as follows: if the marker is 33 it will be 1033 afterwards. So it "adds" a ten in front of the number. Samewise, if I added + 2, it will put a 2 in front of the number. This is strange as "newmarker" is an integer. Even when I use "CInt(c.getattrib("Marker"))" which should turn any string into an integer, this doesn't change anything. Anyway out of here? THX, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Mar 24 16:54:08 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:54:08 -0000 Subject: strange adding In-Reply-To: <3a974225-9b8c-4573-a293-04a8da4e5678@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Tobias, Are you sure that this is the exact code you used? For one, if I try to replicate it, with 1 list, and one inline: dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker debug.print c.GetAttrib ("MarkerSearch") my debug output says 20, which is okay. Secondly, newmarker = newmarker + 10 should say, (if it would be a string operation) 3310 rather than 1033. Still, failing to replicate what you say in there, I can't help much, I'm afraid... For better code, how about this: dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker becomes c.SetAttrib "MarkerSearch", cInt(c.GetAttrib("Marker")) + 10 Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias Sent: 24 March 2010 15:57 To: E-Prime Subject: strange adding Hej there, I have a rather VB-related problem for a current E-Prime file. In a script I want to change an EEG marker according to a certain condition: if condition = 2 then dim newmarker as integer newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") newmarker = newmarker + 10 c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker end if What E-Prime does is as follows: if the marker is 33 it will be 1033 afterwards. So it "adds" a ten in front of the number. Samewise, if I added + 2, it will put a 2 in front of the number. This is strange as "newmarker" is an integer. Even when I use "CInt(c.getattrib("Marker"))" which should turn any string into an integer, this doesn't change anything. Anyway out of here? THX, Tobias -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Mar 25 22:22:11 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:22:11 -0400 Subject: Mastering E-Prime: The mod operator Message-ID: I had some unwelcome surprises when using the mod operator provided in E-Basic (IOW, VBA), in particular when using negative arguments, and PST's E-Basic Help file does not cover this topic in enough detail for me (for that matter their own supplied example code will not compile due to undeclared variables). So I took some time to explore this topic in some depth, and here is the result ... Let n and m stand for any expressions that evaluate to numeric values, and r = n mod m. Then r is the "remainder" of n/m [FN1] and takes on a value in the interval (-m, m) (i.e., r takes the same sign as n; the sign of m is ignored). Sometimes this is what you want, sometimes not. If you instead want something that acts more like a conventional algebraic ring so that r remains in the interval [0, m) (i.e., r remains positive), then do something like the following: r = n mod m: If (r < 0) Then r = r + abs(m). Note that if n and m are Integers then mod returns an Integer, otherwise the values supplied by n and m are first rounded to Long values and then mod returns a Long. Furthermore, Empty (i.e., uninitialized Variant) is treated as 0, and if either n or m are Null then mod returns Null. (And if you are silly enough to use an object value of Nothing for either n or m then mod will produce an "Object variable or With block not set" runtime error, unless the other argument is Null, in which case mod still returns Null. Whew!.) Finally, for a generalized real-number "modulo" function that returns the remainder as defined by the division algorithm (theorem) on Wikipedia (e.g., fmod(7,3) = fmod(7,-3) = 1, and fmod(-7,3) = fmod(-7,-3) = 2), do something like the following: r = n - (m * fix(n/m)): If (r < 0) Then r = r + abs(m) [FN1] More precisely, since the mod operator in E-Basic is strictly integer valued, the values supplied by n and m are first rounded to integer values n' and m', and then r = n' - (m' * (n\m)), where \ is the operator for integer division (n\m = fix(n'/m'), i.e., simple truncation or rounding to 0 of n/m, with n and m first rounded to integer values). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 10:49:11 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 03:49:11 -0700 Subject: Slide Objects shift their position Message-ID: Hello, I am having problem with my Slide Objects moving about. I have adapted Matt Lenharts VASModified (found here: http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic435-5-1.aspx?Highlight=questionnaire) to a twenty item questionnaire with four separate response alternatives. The script and response logging is working as it should, but when I run the survey the Slide Objects shift their location a bit. This makes it very difficult to see what set of response alternatives that correspond to a question. I return to E-Studio and reposition them to the correct positions, and everything looks fine. But then I run it and the positions are all messed up again. All in all, the entire Slide contain 115 SlideObjects (20 questions, 80 response alternatives, 10 color lines, 4 head lines and 1 next button) Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get the objects fixated? Running E-Prime 2 Pro on XP Best Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 10:59:57 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 03:59:57 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello It sounds similar to the VisualAnalogScale found here: http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic435-5-1.aspx?Highlight=questionnaire You can probably adapt it to fit your needs. /Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 26 15:23:56 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:23:56 -0400 Subject: Slide Objects shift their position In-Reply-To: <52afbdf6-8315-40a3-8cd9-abfb435f1872@v20g2000yqv.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Yep, another problem that should be taken directly to PST Web Support's trained staff at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp -- they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours (although latest reports indicate more like several days for typical responses), so don't be shy there. And if you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >I am having problem with my Slide Objects moving about. I have adapted >Matt Lenharts VASModified (found here: >http://support.pstnet.com/forum/Topic435-5-1.aspx?Highlight=questionnaire) >to a twenty item questionnaire with four separate response >alternatives. The script and response logging is working as it should, >but when I run the survey the Slide Objects shift their location a >bit. This makes it very difficult to see what set of response >alternatives that correspond to a question. I return to E-Studio and >reposition them to the correct positions, and everything looks fine. >But then I run it and the positions are all messed up again. > >All in all, the entire Slide contain 115 SlideObjects (20 questions, >80 response alternatives, 10 color lines, 4 head lines and 1 next >button) >Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get the objects fixated? > >Running E-Prime 2 Pro on XP > >Best >Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From tobias.fw at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 17:37:13 2010 From: tobias.fw at gmail.com (Tobias) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 10:37:13 -0700 Subject: strange adding In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF02FD3515@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sometimes you just get lost too much into your loops. Thanks a lot for your answer Mich. Actually, I overlooked a loop. The adding of 10 was actually done 100 times. which just adds 1000 to your numer, hee hee! On 24 Mrz., 17:54, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Tobias, > Are you sure that this is the exact code you used? For one, if I try to replicate it, with 1 list, and one inline: > dim newmarker as integer > newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") > newmarker = newmarker + 10 > c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker > debug.print c.GetAttrib ("MarkerSearch") > > my debug output says 20, which is okay. Secondly, newmarker = newmarker + 10 should say, (if it would be a string operation) 3310 rather than 1033. Still, failing to replicate what you say in there, I can't help much, I'm afraid... For better code, how about this: > > dim newmarker as integer > newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") > newmarker = newmarker + 10 > c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker > > becomes > > c.SetAttrib "MarkerSearch", cInt(c.GetAttrib("Marker")) + 10 > > Cheers, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tobias > Sent: 24 March 2010 15:57 > To: E-Prime > Subject: strange adding > > Hej there, > > I have a rather VB-related problem for a current E-Prime file. > In a script I want to change an EEG marker according to a certain > condition: > > ? ? ? ? if condition = 2 then > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dim newmarker as integer > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? newmarker = c.getattrib("Marker") > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? newmarker = newmarker + 10 > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? c.setattrib "MarkerSearch", newmarker > ? ? ? ? end if > > What E-Prime does is as follows: if the marker is 33 it will be 1033 > afterwards. So it "adds" a ten in front of the number. Samewise, if I > added + 2, it will put a 2 in front of the number. This is strange as > "newmarker" is an integer. > > Even when I use "CInt(c.getattrib("Marker"))" which should turn any > string into an integer, this doesn't change anything. > > Anyway out of here? > THX, > Tobias > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 19:46:57 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:46:57 -0700 Subject: forward and backward priming Message-ID: Hi folks? First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to everyone who has contributed to this forum?I really learned a lot of important and interesting stuff here?. Thanks?. Now the problem? After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I?ll be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. Since I?m an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment doesn?t turn out to be perfectly clear?. I?ll certainly do my best? In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 letters ?a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms). If cue is presented before target, there are four different possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the right side of the screen. If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of the cue remains the same ? 200ms). Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in pseudo-random order. Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I would really appreciate your help. Thanks in advance -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From sara.agosta at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 20:48:23 2010 From: sara.agosta at gmail.com (saraag) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:48:23 -0700 Subject: trigger eye tracker and TMS Message-ID: Hi, I have a problem, I need to trigger with the same E-prime script a TMS machine and after 50ms the eye tracker. actually I think I have two problems: 1) I need to use the same parallel port and I'm not sure how to do this 2) If I trigger the eye tracker at the same time I need to open the parallel port and this will result in the triggering of the TMS machine as well? Does anyne can help me? Thank you very much Sara -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mscullin521 at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 21:21:14 2010 From: mscullin521 at gmail.com (Mike) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:21:14 -0700 Subject: End Task Early Message-ID: Is there anyway to end an eprime program early based on number of inaccurate responses to stimuli (without doing the control+alt+shift abort)? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Mar 26 22:52:31 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:52:31 -0400 Subject: End Task Early In-Reply-To: <0eae599e-9f9f-48e6-aec5-5fe77272f81e@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Mike, Standard reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff really does like to take any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours. So don't be shy there. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take ... You want to do a "criterion based exit". Now that you know the technical terminology, you can run a proper search and look through the PST Samples area. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) > Is there anyway to end an eprime program early based on number of > inaccurate responses to stimuli (without doing the control+alt+shift > abort)? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 10:52:35 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:52:35 +0100 Subject: forward and backward priming In-Reply-To: <741177b8-ade4-43f1-8993-df8533082254@35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Leylo, Your design seems clear enough, but... What exactly is the problem? It sounds a bit like you're asking 'how do I make my experiment in e-prime', which might require more of the casual or regular list-reader than they are willing to give. Compare this to writing to the cubase (a well-known music composition / production, etc software package) mailinglist, asking 'I have a problem: I want to write a jazzy song in 120 bpm that is catchy. It needs a chorus, three verses and a really cool sax solo. Please solve this for me.'. Chances are people will write back, willing to teach you if you have some spare money, but obviously, they're not immediately inclined to start helping you from scratch. So: 1. read the getting started guide; if you find that a bit too much 'point and click' instead of learning, try some course material (e.g. http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf), 2. start writing your experiment, begin with the things you already know how to do (if you still don't know how to do "350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms)", go back to step 1) 3. notice where exactly you get stuck. Is it the design? List operations? Some kind of coding problem? Crashing? Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo Sent: 26 March 2010 19:47 To: E-Prime Subject: forward and backward priming Hi folks... First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to everyone who has contributed to this forum...I really learned a lot of important and interesting stuff here.... Thanks.... Now the problem... After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I'll be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. Since I'm an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment doesn't turn out to be perfectly clear.... I'll certainly do my best... In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 letters -a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms). If cue is presented before target, there are four different possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the right side of the screen. If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of the cue remains the same - 200ms). Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in pseudo-random order. Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I would really appreciate your help. Thanks in advance -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 15:06:31 2010 From: lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com (lamchunpan2108) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:06:31 -0700 Subject: Test with time limit Message-ID: Hi all, I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. Thanks a lot for any help!!! Regards, Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Mon Mar 29 15:07:18 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:07:18 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: <9fea8e11-6269-4afb-83ca-b47ba900edf4@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Return Thank you to Lens and David for your answers ... I'm back here and Im sorry to ask for so simple thing but I need help because support PST should be overloaded, I did not get answers after almost 10 days... For me the handling of documents with EPRIME (Users Guide) went well but there is some simple thing that I can't resolve with the books... but I'd like to just do the simplest thing in the world... but I m lost... What I want to do is to present in the same time 4 pictures of phones in a slideobject (these 4 photos are subobject.) and I would like that the subjects make a choice by clicking on their favorite image (and I need that this choice 'inscribe in the database, in dependant variable). There is a function "tag" to record VD but unfortunately not much to subobjects ... I try to do something and modify the likert 7 scale but... error and error... I try to search something about the hitTest but Im looking for more informations... So I try here, If someone knows about that... THANKS Pierre -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pan_work at yahoo.Fr Mon Mar 29 15:25:23 2010 From: pan_work at yahoo.Fr (pan_work at yahoo.Fr) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:25:23 -0700 Subject: Randomize Conditions in a "mere exposure effect /Perceptual fluency" Experiment In-Reply-To: <2c8689ba-f43d-49bc-8037-acacdfdb7b28@g4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: To get outwith this, I did with....some different folders... I created 4 different experiences that I saved in different folders and I hand-randomized assignment between stimuli and frequency of exposure. Not beautiful... I programmed a summons fixed style stimuli1.jpg with a score of weight 1, etc. ... This allowed me to create a flash with random and then restate these stimuli to be assessed on a Likert ... Having failed to find a way to assign by computer image stimuli1 to real jpg, I prepared a folder with fifty images in different orders .... So for each new subject, I moved the program into a new folder ... It's ugly but it has the merit to worked. I am still awaiting the response of PST for 10 days and I hope to contribute to this topic by finding a better solution..... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 15:43:09 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:43:09 +0100 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <3a681ee2-961c-4f2c-808d-9775b4a467b2@k5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi Ben, 1) set exit list to the 46 trials option 2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: Dim trialnum as integer 3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) trialnum = trialnum + 1 4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have passed and exit list if this happens: If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. ... That's the coding for beginners part, which I think works better as a tutorial. Far more elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: 'Stop running the list after the third trial If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 To: E-Prime Subject: Test with time limit Hi all, I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. Thanks a lot for any help!!! Regards, Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From dina.vujacic at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 15:53:37 2010 From: dina.vujacic at gmail.com (leylo) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 08:53:37 -0700 Subject: forward and backward priming In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF0308852D@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Michiel, I already solve the problem. It?s really unbelievable, but right after that I read my post, I knew what I?m supposed to do. I think that the problem was in the description of experiment that I was given?.. it was so complicated and incomplete , that I myself couldn?t understand what should I do?. Anyway, thank you so much for your reply, and for your analogies that always make me laugh :-) Thanks On Mar 29, 12:52?pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Leylo, > Your design seems clear enough, but... What exactly is the problem? It sounds a bit like you're asking 'how do I make my experiment in e-prime', which might require more of the casual or regular list-reader than they are willing to give. Compare this to writing to the cubase (a well-known music composition / production, etc software package) mailinglist, asking 'I have a problem: I want to write a jazzy song in 120 bpm that is catchy. It needs a chorus, three verses and a really cool sax solo. Please solve this for me.'. Chances are people will write back, willing to teach you if you have some spare money, but obviously, they're not immediately inclined to start helping you from scratch. > > So: > 1. read the getting started guide; if you find that a bit too much 'point and click' instead of learning, try some course material (e.g.http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf), ? > 2. start writing your experiment, begin with the things you already know how to do (if you still don't know how to do "350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms)", go back to step 1) > 3. notice where exactly you get stuck. Is it the design? List operations? Some kind of coding problem? Crashing? > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo > Sent: 26 March 2010 19:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: forward and backward priming > > Hi folks... > > First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to > everyone who has contributed to this forum...I really learned a lot of > important and interesting stuff here.... > Thanks.... > > Now the problem... > > After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) > forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I'll > be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I > only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. > > Since I'm an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I > should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment > doesn't turn out to be perfectly clear.... I'll certainly do my best... > > In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, > square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 > letters -a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) > > After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) > or a target( duration 600ms). > > If cue is presented before target, there are four different > possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset > of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the > right side of the screen. > > If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after > 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of > the cue remains the same - 200ms). > > Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of > three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in > pseudo-random order. > > Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I > would really appreciate your help. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 29 18:00:42 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:00:42 -0400 Subject: trigger eye tracker and TMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sara, I don't see any way to do this other than to get out the soldering iron and build a custom cable to spit the signals from your computer's I/O port (e.g., parallel port) and send some bits to one instrument, and other bits to the other instrument. Then you can decide which bits to designate for which instrument, and from there it is merely a matter of writing your program to measure & control those bits as desired. No big deal. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/26/2010 04:48 PM Friday, saraag wrote: >I have a problem, I need to trigger with the same E-prime script a TMS >machine and after 50ms the eye tracker. >actually I think I have two problems: 1) I need to use the same >parallel port and I'm not sure how to do this >2) If I trigger the eye tracker at the same time I need to open the >parallel port and this will result in the triggering of the TMS >machine as well? > >Does anyne can help me? > >Thank you very much >Sara -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Mar 29 18:32:07 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:32:07 -0400 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF03088728@VUIEXCHC.ad.notti ngham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Mich, Did you by any chance mean for step 1 to read, 1) Set exit list to the 15 minutes option ? Otherwise it seems like this just enforces the 46 trial limit in two different ways at once. Also, wouldn't trialnum have to be declared globally? Just checking my understanding in case I missed something. Alternatively, one might set the List to exit at 46 trials, and then use code to enforce the time limit, thus, 1) Create a global time-to-exit variable in the User Script Area: Dim tExit as Long 2) Set Exit List to the 46 trials option. 3) Initialize the time-to-exit in inline code just before the List starts: Const ListTimeLimit as Long = 15 * 60 * 1000 tExit = Clock.Read + ListTimeLimit 4) In another inline within every trial, check whether the List time limit has passed and exit the List if this happens: If Clock.Read >= tExit Then MyList.Terminate 'where MyList is the name of your List (or if you prefer to write that in a way that works with any List name, If Clock.Read >= tExit Then _ CList( Rte.GetObject( c.GetAttrib("Running") ) ).Terminate ) Now that I have outlined all that, I think I prefer the first "Exit List set to 15 minutes" approach since that takes care of all the tricky timing issues for you. But I am a die-hard academic and I always like to lay out all the options and mull these things over whenever I code. Finally, I wonder if PST has an example of how to do this in their Samples area on the web? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/29/2010 11:43 AM Monday, you wrote: >Hi Ben, >1) set exit list to the 46 trials option >2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: >Dim trialnum as integer >3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by >inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) >trialnum = trialnum + 1 >4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have >passed and exit list if this happens: >If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. > >... >That's the coding for beginners part, which I >think works better as a tutorial. Far more >elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: > >'Stop running the list after the third trial >If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate > >Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 >Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Test with time limit > >Hi all, > >I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- >prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 >minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants >can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will >jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input >something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 >options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) >Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. > >Thanks a lot for any help!!! > >Regards, >Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 03:26:32 2010 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:26:32 -0700 Subject: stimulus location Message-ID: ,hi groub,I red in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 03:50:37 2010 From: lamchunpan2108 at gmail.com (lamchunpan2108) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:50:37 -0700 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <4bb0f232.5844f10a.7b44.ffffbfd7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Dear Michiel and David, Thanks a lot for your advices. I finally got it!!!!!! A lot of thanks, Ben On 3?30?, ??2?32?, David McFarlane wrote: > Mich, > > Did you by any chance mean for step 1 to read, > > 1) Set exit list to the 15 minutes option > ? > > Otherwise it seems like this just enforces the 46 > trial limit in two different ways at once. ?Also, > wouldn't trialnum have to be declared > globally? ?Just checking my understanding in case I missed something. > > Alternatively, one might set the List to exit at > 46 trials, and then use code to enforce the time limit, thus, > > 1) Create a global time-to-exit variable in the User Script Area: > Dim ?tExit as Long > 2) Set Exit List to the 46 trials option. > 3) Initialize the time-to-exit in inline code just before the List starts: > Const ?ListTimeLimit as Long = 15 * 60 * 1000 > tExit = Clock.Read + ListTimeLimit > 4) In another inline within every trial, check > whether the List time limit has passed and exit the List if this happens: > If Clock.Read >= tExit Then MyList.Terminate > 'where MyList is the name of your List > (or if you prefer to write that in a way that works with any List name, > If Clock.Read >= tExit Then _ > ? ? ?CList( Rte.GetObject( c.GetAttrib("Running") ) ).Terminate > ) > > Now that I have outlined all that, I think I > prefer the first "Exit List set to 15 minutes" > approach since that takes care of all the tricky > timing issues for you. ?But I am a die-hard > academic and I always like to lay out all the > options and mull these things over whenever I code. > > Finally, I wonder if PST has an example of how to > do this in their Samples area on the web? > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 3/29/2010 11:43 AM Monday, you wrote: > > >Hi Ben, > >1) set exit list to the 46 trials option > >2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: > >Dim trialnum as integer > >3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by > >inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) > >trialnum = trialnum + 1 > >4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have > >passed and exit list if this happens: > >If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. > > >... > >That's the coding for beginners part, which I > >think works better as a tutorial. Far more > >elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: > > >'Stop running the list after the third trial > >If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate > > >Cheers, > >Mich > > >Michiel Spap? > >Research Fellow > >Perception & Action group > >University of Nottingham > >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 > >Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 > >To: E-Prime > >Subject: Test with time limit > > >Hi all, > > >I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- > >prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 > >minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants > >can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will > >jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input > >something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 > >options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) > >Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. > > >Thanks a lot for any help!!! > > >Regards, > >Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 10:08:53 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:08:53 +0100 Subject: forward and backward priming In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Leylo, No problem, looking back on it, I thought it was actually a bit overly snarky in my way of putting it so I'm happy you didn't take it as such. Still, I didn't see the design as overly complicated (though only from a programming point of view, statistically, it sounds like a beast to analyse), it's just that no problem as such was stated! Good thing the lack of problem was solved anyway :) Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo Sent: 29 March 2010 16:54 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: forward and backward priming Hi Michiel, I already solve the problem. It's really unbelievable, but right after that I read my post, I knew what I'm supposed to do. I think that the problem was in the description of experiment that I was given..... it was so complicated and incomplete , that I myself couldn't understand what should I do.... Anyway, thank you so much for your reply, and for your analogies that always make me laugh :-) Thanks On Mar 29, 12:52?pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Leylo, > Your design seems clear enough, but... What exactly is the problem? It sounds a bit like you're asking 'how do I make my experiment in e-prime', which might require more of the casual or regular list-reader than they are willing to give. Compare this to writing to the cubase (a well-known music composition / production, etc software package) mailinglist, asking 'I have a problem: I want to write a jazzy song in 120 bpm that is catchy. It needs a chorus, three verses and a really cool sax solo. Please solve this for me.'. Chances are people will write back, willing to teach you if you have some spare money, but obviously, they're not immediately inclined to start helping you from scratch. > > So: > 1. read the getting started guide; if you find that a bit too much 'point and click' instead of learning, try some course material (e.g.http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf), ? > 2. start writing your experiment, begin with the things you already know how to do (if you still don't know how to do "350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) or a target( duration 600ms)", go back to step 1) > 3. notice where exactly you get stuck. Is it the design? List operations? Some kind of coding problem? Crashing? > > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of leylo > Sent: 26 March 2010 19:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: forward and backward priming > > Hi folks... > > First of all, I really need to say one more time, how thankful I am to > everyone who has contributed to this forum...I really learned a lot of > important and interesting stuff here.... > Thanks.... > > Now the problem... > > After I spent almost five days searching through this (and similar) > forums for possible solution to my problem, I lost any hope that I'll > be able to resolve this one by myself. Now, after all that reading I > only became even more confused and I really have to ask for your help. > > Since I'm an e-prime newbie and very bad at explaining things, I > should probably apologize in advance if the description of experiment > doesn't turn out to be perfectly clear.... I'll certainly do my best... > > In my experiment there are three types of stimuli: fixation dot, > square-shaped cue and target- letter (target can be one of the 8 > letters -a,b,c,d,w,x,y,z) > > After 350ms fixation point, there can be either a cue(duration200ms) > or a target( duration 600ms). > > If cue is presented before target, there are four different > possibilities; it can be presented either 150ms or 375ms before onset > of the target, and it can also be presented on the left side or on the > right side of the screen. > > If the target is presented right after the fixation point, then, after > 100ms it is followed by left or right square-shaped cue ( duration of > the cue remains the same - 200ms). > > Experiment should contain 432 trials, divided into three blocks of > three repetitions of each condition. Trials should be presented in > pseudo-random order. > > Is there anyone who has some idea how could I make this work??? I > would really appreciate your help. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 09:58:53 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:58:53 +0100 Subject: Test with time limit In-Reply-To: <4bb0f232.5844f10a.7b44.ffffbfd7SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Yeah, absolutely right... for a stepwise instruction it was pretty sloppy! Cheers, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane Sent: 29 March 2010 19:32 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Test with time limit Mich, Did you by any chance mean for step 1 to read, 1) Set exit list to the 15 minutes option ? Otherwise it seems like this just enforces the 46 trial limit in two different ways at once. Also, wouldn't trialnum have to be declared globally? Just checking my understanding in case I missed something. Alternatively, one might set the List to exit at 46 trials, and then use code to enforce the time limit, thus, 1) Create a global time-to-exit variable in the User Script Area: Dim tExit as Long 2) Set Exit List to the 46 trials option. 3) Initialize the time-to-exit in inline code just before the List starts: Const ListTimeLimit as Long = 15 * 60 * 1000 tExit = Clock.Read + ListTimeLimit 4) In another inline within every trial, check whether the List time limit has passed and exit the List if this happens: If Clock.Read >= tExit Then MyList.Terminate 'where MyList is the name of your List (or if you prefer to write that in a way that works with any List name, If Clock.Read >= tExit Then _ CList( Rte.GetObject( c.GetAttrib("Running") ) ).Terminate ) Now that I have outlined all that, I think I prefer the first "Exit List set to 15 minutes" approach since that takes care of all the tricky timing issues for you. But I am a die-hard academic and I always like to lay out all the options and mull these things over whenever I code. Finally, I wonder if PST has an example of how to do this in their Samples area on the web? -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 3/29/2010 11:43 AM Monday, you wrote: >Hi Ben, >1) set exit list to the 46 trials option >2) insert a trial counter inline code before the list is encountered: >Dim trialnum as integer >3) add one to the trialnum with every trial, by >inserting another inline at the start of every trial (i.e. within this list) >trialnum = trialnum + 1 >4) check, every trial, whether 46 trials have >passed and exit list if this happens: >If trialnum = 46 then myList.Terminate 'where myList is the name of your list. > >... >That's the coding for beginners part, which I >think works better as a tutorial. Far more >elegant, however, is the way explained in the ebasic help: > >'Stop running the list after the third trial >If c.GetAttrib(c.GetAttrib("Running") & ".Sample") = 46 Then myList.Terminate > >Cheers, >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? >Research Fellow >Perception & Action group >University of Nottingham >School of Psychology > > >-----Original Message----- >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lamchunpan2108 >Sent: 29 March 2010 16:07 >To: E-Prime >Subject: Test with time limit > >Hi all, > >I am not sure if it is an easy question since I am still very new to e- >prime. I am creating a speed test version of an intelligence test (15 >minutes time limit). There are 46 trials in a Block and participants >can either finish all the trials within 15 minutes or the program will >jump to the next procedure after 15 minutes. I know that we can input >something similar in the Reset/Exit of Block options. However, the 2 >options cannot co-exist, i.e., 1.) Exit after 600 seconds, and 2.) >Exit after 46 trials. I would like to know how can I do so in e-prime. > >Thanks a lot for any help!!! > >Regards, >Ben Lam -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 14:57:04 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:57:04 -0700 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 15:47:24 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:47:24 +0100 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: Hi group, I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 To: E-Prime Subject: stimulus location ,hi groub,I red in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 16:07:29 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:07:29 +0100 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF03088AD6@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sorry, I missed a line in there! "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: stimulus location Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: Hi group, I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 To: E-Prime Subject: stimulus location ,hi groub,I red in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From carlynlds at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 18:06:11 2010 From: carlynlds at gmail.com (Carlyn Friedberg) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:06:11 -0300 Subject: Tobii+E prime 2 Message-ID: Hello, Has anyone had any trouble with Tobii eye-trackers and E-Prime 2 communicating? When we try to run an experiment in e-prime 2, the experiment crashes and the Tobii does not eyetrack. Any suggestions? We had this problem arise after updating e-prime 2 to a newer version of e-prime 2. many thanks! Carlyn -- Carlyn Friedberg Laboratory for Developmental Studies Harvard University carlyn at wjh.harvard.edu 617.384.8357 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 22:58:09 2010 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:58:09 -0700 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: <0CA8E1B4EC20D743912B980E486C5CAF03088AE8@VUIEXCHC.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: I'm sorry, I'm not a native English speaker , my first Arab. My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. On 30 ????, 18:07, Michiel Spape wrote: > Sorry, I missed a line in there! > > "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" > > Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape > Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: stimulus location > > Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: > > Hi group, > I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. > > ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 > To: E-Prime > Subject: stimulus location > > ?,hi groub,I red > ? ?in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research > about ? Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of > visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that > any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 ?degrees > of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.- ????? ???? ??????? - > > - ??? ???? ??????? - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ash2003raff at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 23:00:42 2010 From: ash2003raff at yahoo.com (ashraf) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:00:42 -0700 Subject: the suitable radius of a circle Message-ID: My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From giladsabo at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 08:02:32 2010 From: giladsabo at gmail.com (gilis) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:02:32 -0700 Subject: Two different responses within the same object Message-ID: Hi! I have posted here on a very similar issue about one week ago, no one answered it then :) but I hope that now, when my question is much more focused I will get some assistance So, it goes like that- in my experiment subjects response vocally to the stimulus. As it may be that in part of the trials their voice will not cross the minimum voice-magnitude threshold to be considered as response (and lowering the threshold is of course not an ideal or full solution) I also ask participants to press the left click of the mouse while giving their vocal response. Thats mean that I need two RTs to be recorded from the same object (stimulus slide) and that if voice response was given first then only mouse input will be considered as second response and vice versa. So, it means that if their is mouse/voice response then the voice/ mouse input is now being deactivated. That the first RT is being immediately stored in new attribute (named first RT)-that the name of the device which is connected with this first RT is also inserted to different attribute. And that the slide now record new RT from the device that didn't response yet (and that RT is being added to the first RT to have the real time for the second RT). The all issue is that E-prime help is pretty bad written so it's hard to understand or find what command responsable to what. The online samples (multiple response and etc)just don't seem to provide soultion to the experiment I described here. So, any help would be appreciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 08:48:37 2010 From: jens.bernhardsson at gmail.com (jens) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:48:37 -0700 Subject: How to select between few images with the mouse in a slide object? In-Reply-To: <382b0dca-3e90-4fb5-9036-422ab4d7d043@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: There probably better ways to solve this, but this is what I tried. Get the VASModified.es and replace the SlideText with SlideImage on the Slide and point them to an Attribute in a list. Name them Row11, Row12 etc. Go thru the inlines and replace every line with ?Text? to ?Image?. Also, in the inlines, change every ?BackColor? to ?BorderColor?. Set the border width in the sub properties of the images. You can also change color so that the border is not seen while unchecked (looks better). Remember that if you ad SlideImages you must define them in the inlines. /Jens On 29 mar, 17:07, "pan_w... at yahoo.Fr" wrote: > Return > > Thank you to Lens and David for your answers ... > > I'm back here and Im sorry to ask for so simple thing but I need help > because ?support PST ?should be overloaded, I did not get answers > after almost 10 days... > > For me the handling of documents with EPRIME (Users Guide) went well > but there is some simple thing that I can't resolve with the books... > but I'd like to just do the simplest thing in the world... but I m > lost... > > What I want to do is to present in the same time 4 pictures of phones > in a slideobject (these 4 photos are subobject.) and I would like that > the subjects make a choice by clicking on their favorite image (and I > need that this choice 'inscribe in the database, in dependant > variable). There is a function "tag" to record VD but unfortunately > not much to subobjects ... > > I try to do something and modify the likert 7 scale but... error and > error... > > I try to search something about the hitTest but Im looking for more > informations... > > So I try here, If someone knows about that... THANKS > > Pierre -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 10:06:22 2010 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:06:22 +0100 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Okay, so the question is whether one would be able to read a 2.5 degrees letter that is placed 2.5 degrees from fixation? So, unless my calculations are horribly off, that is 2.19 cm (about an inch, for imperial readers) given a distance to the screen of about 50 cm, right (quite possibly wrong)? If I got this right, anyway, and given that you use such a large letter, I see no reason why someone wouldn't be able to read it, as long as the letter in question is Latin or a similar simple script. Here's the relevant part of the user guide (p A-34), for those wondering: "The location of the stimulus can have a powerful effect on both RT and error rates. Visual acuity drops quickly as stimuli are moved away from the fovea?the narrow area of vision straight ahead that is about 2? wide. A person with 20/20 vision in the fovea will typically have about 20/80 vision 2.5? from straight-ahead. At 10? from straight ahead most people have worse than 20/300 vision. To put this in perspective, at a viewing distance of 57 cm (22.5?), each centimeter is about 1? of visual angle, so a letter displayed 2.5 cm (about 1?) from fixation will be seen quite poorly." ... but that depends rather on the size of the letter - whether it is 'seen' quite poorly. Furthermore, there's plenty of paradigms where seeing things quite poorly is exactly what you'd want (subliminal or near-subliminal priming, for instance) and in other cases, eye-movements are permitted (visual search, usually). What's the paradigm you're working on? Best, Mich (not natively from Notts) Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf Sent: 30 March 2010 23:58 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: stimulus location I'm sorry, I'm not a native English speaker , my first Arab. My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. On 30 ????, 18:07, Michiel Spape wrote: > Sorry, I missed a line in there! > > "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" > > Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape > Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: stimulus location > > Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: > > Hi group, > I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. > > ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychology > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf > Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 > To: E-Prime > Subject: stimulus location > > ?,hi groub,I red > ? ?in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research > about ? Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of > visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that > any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 ?degrees > of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.- ????? ???? ??????? - > > - ??? ???? ??????? - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From jjprisciandaro at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 13:45:15 2010 From: jjprisciandaro at gmail.com (Jim) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 06:45:15 -0700 Subject: extracting vectors of stimulus onsets for fmri software Message-ID: Hi, I was hoping to benefit from the experience of someone who uses e- prime for fmri experiments and analyzes their data in SPM (or any other software that requires input of vectors of stimulus onsets). What is the simplest way to get vectors of stimulus onsets to SPM for event related analyses (given that you have multiple stimulus types)? So far, I have a variable created that gives the onset time of each stimulus relative to the start of the scan. Then, I also have multiple variables (one for each stimulus type) that give the onset times of particular stimulus types in seconds. Unfortunately, though, when a given stimulus occurs, its onset time is recorded in one of these multiple variables whereas all other of these variables recieve a blank space (by design). With this setup, I can copy and paste one of these variables into SPM as a vector of onset times for a given stimulus type and manually delete the spaces mentioned above -- what a pain! There must be an easier way! For example, can I export a text file that contains a vector of the stimulus onset times for a single stimulus type (without spaces for trials where that stimulus type did not occur)? Thanks, Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 31 13:55:27 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 09:55:27 -0400 Subject: stimulus location In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You should take this up with your graduate advisor, and consult the relevant psychology research textbooks. This is not a question about E-Prime, it is a question about visual acuity and its effect on psychology experiments in general, and your experiment in particular. No one here can tell whether or not 2.5 degrees of visual angle will be detrimental to your particular experiment. So I repeat, please take this to your graduate advisor. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder On Tue 3/30/2010 ashraf wrote: > I'm sorry, I'm not a native English speaker , my first Arab. > My question is about the suitable radius of a circle of letters to be > seen very well from the perspective of visual acuity. > > > On 30 ????, 18:07, Michiel Spape > wrote: >> Sorry, I missed a line in there! >> >> "visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that" >> >> Though it didn't really affect the conclusion. >> >> Michiel Spap? >> Research Fellow >> Perception & Action group >> University of Nottingham >> School of Psychology >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michiel Spape >> Sent: 30 March 2010 16:47 >> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: stimulus location >> >> Your inline would work better if you correct the syntax: >> >> Hi group, >> I read in the e-prime user guide, in appendix B on page 34 - considering the stimulus location - that displaying a circle at a visual angle of 2.5 degrees from a central fixation letter, its radius must be greater than 2.5 degrees. Otherwise, it will not be suitably large enough to study attention. >> >> ...but I might be completely wrong in thinking this is what you're saying. If, however, it is, the answer is, as Jens says, no. To expand on that, it makes little sense from a psychological point of view. Since I find it unlikely you were asking this, however, I'll not go much farther than Jens and will merely ask you, again, to take a course in English and/or (presumably and) install a spelling check on your system. My apologies if this sounds pedantic, I'm not being a spelling-nazi, it's just that your wording can only be understood by someone with para-semantic skills >> Best, >> Mich >> >> Michiel Spap? >> Research Fellow >> Perception & Action group >> University of Nottingham >> School of Psychology >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ashraf >> Sent: 30 March 2010 04:27 >> To: E-Prime >> Subject: stimulus location >> >> ,hi groub,I red >> in e-prime user Guide In appendix B,consideration in research >> about Stimulus Location P.34 that ,a letter displayed 2.5 degrees of >> visual angle from fixation will seen Quit poorly,Is this mean ,that >> any circle of stimilus in e-prime,its radius greater than2.5 degrees >> of visual angle will not be suitable to study attention -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 31 14:23:37 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: Two different responses within the same object In-Reply-To: <45cc8002-569e-4dd0-80b7-f9a995bf2880@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: OK, I understand you a little better this time, so I will try a brief response. Basically, just before your Slide, you also add a Wait object with Duration = 0. Have your Wait object get one response, and your Slide get the other. For the purpose of discussion, let's assign the voice key to the Wait object and the mouse to the Slide object, allow 2 sec for either response, and keep the stimulus Slide up for 2 sec even with a response. Then your structure might look something like - StimWait: Duration = 0, Input Mask = SRBox, Time Limit = 2000, End Action = (none) - StimSlide: Duration = 2000, Input Mask = Mouse, Time Limit = 2000, End Action = (none) Things get a little trickier if you want either of the responses to terminate the stimulus, but I will leave that as an exercise. In general, you can do all sorts of interesting things in E-Prime by using short Durations, long PreReleases, and long Time Limits ("extended input") to overlap objects, on top of using multiple input masks within single objects. Now if only the E-Prime documentation would actually help us here instead of hinder us. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder gilis wrote: > Hi! > > I have posted here on a very similar issue about one week ago, no one > answered it then :) > but I hope that now, when my question is much more focused I will get > some assistance > > So, it goes like that- in my experiment subjects response vocally to > the stimulus. As it may be that in part of the trials their voice will > not cross the minimum voice-magnitude threshold to be considered as > response (and lowering the threshold is of course not an ideal or full > solution) I also ask participants to press the left click of the mouse > while giving their vocal response. > > Thats mean that I need two RTs to be recorded from the same object > (stimulus slide) and that if voice response was given first then only > mouse input will be considered as second response and vice versa. > > So, it means that if their is mouse/voice response then the voice/ > mouse input is now being deactivated. That the first RT is being > immediately stored in new attribute (named first RT)-that the name of > the device which is connected with this first RT is also inserted to > different attribute. And that the slide now record new RT from the > device that didn't response yet (and that RT is being added to the > first RT to have the real time for the second RT). > > The all issue is that E-prime help is pretty bad written so it's hard > to understand or find what command responsable to what. The online > samples (multiple response and etc)just don't seem to provide soultion > to the experiment I described here. So, any help would be appreciated. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Wed Mar 31 14:54:25 2010 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:54:25 -0400 Subject: extracting vectors of stimulus onsets for fmri software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, Two thoughts -- - After the experiment, export your data to Excel, and write an Excel macro to recombine the data and create whatever vectors you like. Or, if you prefer something like Perl, once again use E-DataAid to export your data in some suitable text format, then script away! - During the experiment, use c.SetAttrib in inline code to have E-Prime directly generate whatever data columns you like. Either of these ways would involve some programming. Note that E-Prime and Excel both use Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), so familiarity with either platform will help with the other (although you still have to get familiar with the specific object model of each platform). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > I was hoping to benefit from the experience of someone who uses e- > prime for fmri experiments and analyzes their data in SPM (or any > other software that requires input of vectors of stimulus onsets). > > What is the simplest way to get vectors of stimulus onsets to SPM for > event related analyses (given that you have multiple stimulus types)? > > So far, I have a variable created that gives the onset time of each > stimulus relative to the start of the scan. Then, I also have multiple > variables (one for each stimulus type) that give the onset times of > particular stimulus types in seconds. Unfortunately, though, when a > given stimulus occurs, its onset time is recorded in one of these > multiple variables whereas all other of these variables recieve a > blank space (by design). With this setup, I can copy and paste one of > these variables into SPM as a vector of onset times for a given > stimulus type and manually delete the spaces mentioned above -- what a > pain! There must be an easier way! > > For example, can I export a text file that contains a vector of the > stimulus onset times for a single stimulus type (without spaces for > trials where that stimulus type did not occur)? > > Thanks, > Jim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From h.witherstone at googlemail.com Wed Mar 31 19:02:13 2010 From: h.witherstone at googlemail.com (Hannah Witherstone) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:02:13 -0700 Subject: Trouble playing sound files Message-ID: I am very new to E-Prime so please bare with me! I have run through the 'getting started' manual and all of the tutorials within. I have successfully completed Tutorial 2 which pairs the sound files 'Bob' and 'Linda' with images. I need to create my own experiment which pairs a static image with a sentence (will more than likely be recorded in .mp3 format), to which the participant has to press the space bar when they hear a key word within the sentence. I need the reaction time (in ms) to this target word. For some reason I cannot get E-Prime to run my own sound files. I can make my own experiment and use the Bob and Linda .wav files provided with E-Prime, but when I try and substitute these file names for anything else the experiment crashes. I get varying error messages, all relating to the script line: "Slide1_SoundBuffer.Load". The most common error message is: Run-time Error (Line 263) 18005: Cannot load sound file "hello.wav" Mismatched or invalid block alignment I *think* this is due to the sound file format set-up in the Experiment Object Properties (where you can select channels, samples and bits per sample). I have tried every possible combination in this section and still cannot get my files to play. This is the case when I use various .mp3, .wma and .wav formats. I can play all of the files fine through my laptop, so I know the sound files are OK. Any help would be much appreciated as the manual is of no use! Hannah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From j.keidel at bangor.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 20:57:41 2010 From: j.keidel at bangor.ac.uk (James Keidel) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:57:41 +0100 Subject: extracting vectors of stimulus onsets for fmri software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: hey if you have a variable with the onset times, you could also have a variable with the condition for each time. copy these both into excel, sort by the condition variable, then paste the times for each condition into spm...it's not perfect but probably easier than what you are doing. otherwise, like david said, write an excel macro to remove empty space in a column; there are examples of this online. within eprime, you could search the e-basic help for file handling and have a little piece of script that wrote out files for each condition; done correctly this file could be loaded directly into spm via a matlab command and you would not have to deal with the gui much at all. JK On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Jim wrote: > Hi, > > I was hoping to benefit from the experience of someone who uses e- > prime for fmri experiments and analyzes their data in SPM (or any > other software that requires input of vectors of stimulus onsets). > > What is the simplest way to get vectors of stimulus onsets to SPM for > event related analyses (given that you have multiple stimulus types)? > > So far, I have a variable created that gives the onset time of each > stimulus relative to the start of the scan. Then, I also have multiple > variables (one for each stimulus type) that give the onset times of > particular stimulus types in seconds. Unfortunately, though, when a > given stimulus occurs, its onset time is recorded in one of these > multiple variables whereas all other of these variables recieve a > blank space (by design). With this setup, I can copy and paste one of > these variables into SPM as a vector of onset times for a given > stimulus type and manually delete the spaces mentioned above -- what a > pain! There must be an easier way! > > For example, can I export a text file that contains a vector of the > stimulus onset times for a single stimulus type (without spaces for > trials where that stimulus type did not occur)? > > Thanks, > Jim > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.