On one slide, show different images, loaded from a list

Wed Mar 10 23:31:43 UTC 2010

and this thread could be of help too...
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/e955c26100f8d2bc
it contains the basic code that I used for the experiment with 1
target and 15 distractors .

On Mar 11, 12:25 am, liwenna <liwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
> and I read your reply a bit hasty at first (as I was
> multitasking... ;) ) but the thing I posted now is pretty much similar
> to your latest idea.
> The thread I posted is about something entirely different though. I
> posted it just for the lines that show how to fill an array and use it
> to fill a triallist.
>
> Hope it helps!
>
> On Mar 11, 12:16 am, liwenna <liwe... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Vera,
>
> > Yes you are totally right about the pseudorandomness of my proposed
> > solution.
>
> > There is a real random way (I use it for a task with 1 target and 15
> > distractors) that involves loading imagenames (I used external .txt
> > files as the list of distractors depends on the targetstimulus and
> > thus I had 15 lists of 15 distractorimages) into an array (you could
> > also fill the array in an inline though), randomising the array and
> > then filling the triallist.
>
> > Parts of the code needed can be found in this thread:http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b44513145...
>
> > I didn't suggest this as I was under the impression that you were
> > seeking for a programming-free solution.
>
> > best,
>
> > liw
>
> > On Mar 10, 10:55 pm, Vera <vera.d... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hi Liwenna,
>
> > > first a big, huge thanks for replying!! :) It sure makes one want to
> > > rip out less hair just knowing that you're not alone. ;)
> > > Just a few comments on what you wrote:
>
> > > > One thing that is elemental to understand when using e-prime, is that
> > > > on each run of a procedure one level of each of the nested lists can
> > > > be used. If you need nine different pictures in one 'run of the
> > > > procedure' you can not put them in different rows as e-prime can only
> > > > acces one level of each list on each run. So... you wrote: " like
> > > > putting the 9 images in one line of the nested list, but then I get
> > > > other errors", and you were definitely on the right track!
>
> > > Yep, doesn't work, but it was a nice try! ;)
>
> > > > Do the nine images have the same positions on each trial? Or are they
> > > > placed in different 'arrangements' on every trial?
>
> > > For the moment they are at the same position every time, but thanks
> > > for the instructions below, we might be using that later. :)
>
> > > > What you could do is make one (nested or direct) list that has nine
> > > > attributes on every row containing the nine pictures used in a trial,
> > > > call them for instance stim1, stim2, stim3,...stim8 and targetstim. In
> > > > each level of this list you can make a different combination of
> > > > stimuluspictures. In your slide you'll have nine imageobjects: make
> > > > each one of them refer to a different stimulus attribute: [stim1]
> > > > [stim2] ... [targetstim].
>
> > > Yep, thought of that option too, but there is one problem to it: we
> > > want the images to appear completely at random (so in each trial with
> > > 9 images there is 1 target, 4 distractors(type1) and 4
> > > distractors(type2). Each item can be at 9 different positions. Which
> > > would make (ok, I might be wrong here, I don't remember very well the
> > > correct chance calculations) something like... a lot (!!!!) of
> > > combinations, no? Or is there some way to tell E-Prime to randomize 9
> > > attributes (9 columns basically)?
>
> > > > So far so good: now you'll have different collections of stimpictures
> > > > on each run (as many different 'collections' as you have made
> > > > different levels in your list). If you need them to be placed in
> > > > different spatial arrangement on each trial you should start out with
> > > > creating the number of different arrangements that you want to use.
> > > > For each arrangement write down the x and y values of each of the
> > > > imageobjects. (so: imageobject 1 showing [stim1] has x = 500 and y=68
> > > > in arrangement 1 and x = 950 and y =780 in arrangement 2  for
> > > > instance). Into the list with stimuluspictures nest a second list that
> > > > holds the different arrangements. This list will have 9x2=18
> > > > attributes: stim1x, stim1y, stim2x, stim2y, stim3x... targetstimy. Go
> > > > back to your slide and now tell the slideobjects to find their x and y
> > > > values in the corresponding attributes, just like they find their
> > > > pictures: [stim1x] [stim1y] [stim2x] etc etc.
> > > > Now... you'll have spent a lot of time but you will have a random
> > > > combination of a collection of target and distractorpictures with one
> > > > of the different spatial arrangements on each trial.
>
> > > :D Like you said, I will for sure have spent a lot of time! :) But it
> > > might be some kind of solution maybe, I will have to think of it. But
> > > then again, I think that
> > > there will be too many combinations possible.
>
> > > > Alternatively.... I say it should be possible to use 'complete array'
> > > > pictures that you make in for instance photoshop or even paint....
> > > > pictures that have the size of the screen and show all nine stimuli at
> > > > once... you could tell e-prime to show one of those pictures on each
> > > > trial and locate a single 'transparant empty' imagobject over the
> > > > location of the targetstimulus (you should fiddle around a bit with a
> > > > non-transparant coloured object to find the exact location needed for
> > > > each 'array picture' and actually place this imageobject UNDER the
> > > > arraypicture and not in front).This imageobject will then be the
> > > > object to which you point your dohittest script (assuming that that's
> > > > what you will use? have your subjects click the mouse on the target?).
> > > > Not sure if that will work.. think it should.
>
> > > Yep, have been thinking of that too, but it for sure isn't the most
> > > elegant solution, as the random again will be more or less
> > > "biased" (one can only make so many combinations).
>
> > > > I hope the above stuff will get you started again, if not, please let
> > > > me know.
>
> > > Yep, thanks for the reflexions! :) As I said, it sure helps to know
> > > that other people have thought of this too. :) For the moment I am
> > > working on a (although I am an absolute beginner as far as programming
> > > is concerned) solution with an inline script. I was thinking that
> > > maybe I can tell Eprime to load 3 numbers into this column where
> > > normally pictures would be, randomize the whole and then maybe
> > > according to the numbers Eprime could load some corresponding images?
>
> > > I however just still don't want to believe that this could be the only
> > > solution (especially because "my problem" is working fine when you
> > > replace the images on the slide by text and tell Eprime to randomly
> > > load strings (words) from a nested file). Ah well...
>
> > > Thanks a lot anyway for replying and if I find a solution, I will let
> > > you know. :)
>
> > > Greetings,
>
> > > Vera
>
> > > > Best
>
> > > > liw
>
> > > > On Mar 10, 5:45 pm, Vera <vera.d... at googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Hi forum members!
>
> > > > > I sure hope I will get some help here! I am trying to construct a
> > > > > visual search task in which participants have to find let's say a
> > > > > "yellow triangle" within "blue triangles" and "yellow triangles".
>
> > > > > For this, I created a list with different conditions (like number of
> > > > > items on the grid, target present or not) and I was actually counting
> > > > > on using a slide with (let's say) 9 images, on which I would each of
> > > > > the 9 images randomly from a nested list.
>
> > > > > So I made my nested list with images (.png's) and I of course made
> > > > > sure to have the image-objects on the slide point first to the
> > > > > procedure list and then to the nested list (I think I read about all
> > > > > the messages concerning this topic, including this onehttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/84c742b85...
> > > > > (thanks a lot for the work-around, it was a good thing for me to see
> > > > > if I did it right, which I did, but it still will not load the right
> > > > > pictures).
>
> > > > > So the problem is: It seems that the "point to the nested list
> > > > > function" is working, but then it seems impossible to load 9 DIFFERENT
> > > > > images (it will show me 9 times the same image, at least therewith
> > > > > confirming that it points to the correct nested list).
>
> > > > > And I tried every option I could think of (like putting the 9 images
> > > > > in one line of the nested list, but then I get other errors). :-( I am
> > > > > now believing that I should maybe really write to the developers,
> > > > > simply because this "functionality" seems to be absent.
>
> > > > > Now I will probably have to code it (which is were the real problem
> > > > > starts, because I am an absolute no-programmer ;-) ) and the institute
> > > > > where I am currently working actually bought E-Prime because it should
> > > > > be more or less "programming-free" (well ok, I understand you cannot
> > > > > rule it out completely, but the thing I described above should be
> > > > > possible in my opinion).
>
> > > > > I really hope some of you guys have some creative solution for me!
>
> > > > > With kind regards,
>
> > > > > Vera

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