From njvack at wisc.edu Wed Jun 1 02:37:07 2011 From: njvack at wisc.edu (Nate Vack) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:37:07 -0500 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Paul Groot wrote: > PS. I'm not sure if reaction time is critical in you study, but keep > in mind that most displays draw the image from top to bottom. This can > take upto 10-20ms, so be careful when comparing RT's between > top-bottom conditions. LCD monitors do not do this; they generally blit to all pixels essentially simultaneously. Cheers, -Nate -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From a.assfalg at googlemail.com Wed Jun 1 06:09:55 2011 From: a.assfalg at googlemail.com (Alexander) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:09:55 -0700 Subject: multiple mouse reactions in one trial In-Reply-To: <4dde7a93.83ad2a0a.1613.6830SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello together, I wanted to thank again for the helpful solutions!! Greetings Alexander On 26 Mai, 18:06, David McFarlane wrote: > Alexander, > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) > PST's trained staff takes any and all questions > athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp > , and they strive to respond to all requests in > 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their > substitute for proper documentation, so make full > use of it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST > Web Support, please extend the courtesy of > posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > (And to Mich, hat's off for saying what I so often say.) > > That said, here is my take... > > As liw hinted, you could collect multiple mouse > clicks for a single stimulus & input mask by > making use of the InputMask.Responses property in > inline code -- see that topic in the E-Basic Help > facility, and the MultipleResponseCollection.es > example in the PST Web Downloads area.  But to > get the stimulus to change upon each response > would take more work.  I think liw's approach > using multiple objects may be easier to for a > begginner, but if you don't mind diving in to a > bunch of code then an alternative (and not > necessarily better) approach would be to use the > InputMask.Responses property along with the .Draw > method of each of the various sub-objects on your > stimulus Slide.  The VAS example from PST shows > how to do something like this (note that their > VAS example is *not* a VAS, it is a Likert > scale!).  (And if you do resort to the PST > examples, take them as only a starting point for > coding ideas -- they have the virtue of providing > actual working code, but beyond that the code is > not a good model of good programming practices.) > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take > precedence over public relations, for nature > cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > At 5/26/2011 06:21 AM Thursday, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > > >hmmmz despite Michiels more educationally responsible answer I tried > >to conjure something up for you. > > >I believe it's possible to record multiple responses during one show > >of a slide... but you can't alter the slide while it's being shown. > >You do want to change it (i.e. you want the clicked number to > >disappear) so therefore you'll have to change the slide after each > >response is given and then show it again. > > >One could use different slidestates to show 'the same slide' with > >different appearances (i.e. a different number of text boxes) but.. > >you'd need 24 slidestates (4*3*2*1) while if I remember correctly, > >only 12 are allowed, so that's not really an option. > > >What is? > > >Use a slide with four textboxes... each textbox will contain one > >number, store the numbers in four attributes in a list (n1, n2, n3 or > >whatever you like) and tell the four textboxes to find their 'text' > >from these attributes by entering [n1], [n2], etc in the text fields. > >By default the textboxes will be named text1, text2, text3 etc, which > >is fine,  you could change their names, doesn't really matter. Enable > >the mouse on the slide and set the end action to terminate, log the > >response time. > > >On your trial procedure, directly after the slide place an inline > >containing this code: > > >******* > >If responsecount = 0 then c.setattrib "slidestarttime", > >SLIDENAME.OnsetTime > > >'tell the program which slide we are talking about > >         Set theState = SLIDENAME.States("Default") > > >'Was there a response? > >         If SLIDENAME.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then > > >'Get the mouse response > >                 Set theMouseResponseData = > >CMouseResponseData(SLIDENAME.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > > >'Determine string name of SlideImage or SlideText object at > >'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit > >                 strHit = > >theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, > >theMouseResponseData.CursorY) > > >'if strHit remains empty, i.e. the mouseclick was not made on one of > >the textboxes, then go back and show the slide again > >                 if strHit = "" then goto backlabel > > >'keep a count of the number of responses given so far > >                 Responsecount = responsecount +1 > > >'log the name of the textbox that was clicked under response1, > >response2, response3 etc, dependent on the value of responsecount > >'log the responsetime for this response under response1.rt, > >response2.rt, etc, also dependent on the value of responsecount. > >Calculate the responsetime by subtracting the > >'onsettime of the first showing of the slide (stored under > >slidestarttime) from the timestamp of the new response > >(SLIDENAME.RTTime). > >                c.SetAttrib "response"& responsecount, strHit > >                c.SetAttrib “response”& responsecount &“.rt”, SLIDENAME.RTTime > >- c.getattrib ("slidestarttime") > > >'change the text of the textbox was clicked to nothing: "" > > >CSlideText(SLIDENAME.States(Slide1.ActiveState).Objects(strHit)).text=“” > > >'if less than 4 response have been given, go back to show the slide > >again > >                if responsecount <4 then goto backlabel > > >          End If > > >'reset the response counter for the next trial > >Responsecount = 0 > >************ > > >replace every instance of SLIDENAME with the actual name of your > >slide. The variable responsecount should be created by writing the > >line "dim responsecount as integer" (no "'s) on the user tab of the > >script window. Place a label on the procedure right before your slide, > >call it backlabel. This is a kind of 'marker', at the end of the code > >the program will return to that 'place in the procedure' when it > >encounter the line containing 'goto backlabel'. > > >So basically what it does is the following: it determines the name of > >the textsubobject that was clicked on and stored this name under > >'strHit'. If there is no value stored in strHit then the click was > >made outside of the textbox areas and the program goes back to show > >the slide again in it's current state. If that is not the case then > >strHit is stored as the given response and so is the response time. > >After that it replaces the text of the subjectobject with the name > >that is stored under strHit (i.e. the box that was clicked on) with "" > >which is... nothing. This way the clicked number will (hopefully :p) > >disappear. It then goes back to backlabel and shows the slide again, > >rinse and repeat until 4 responses have been given. > > >I haven't tested this code, it might be full of minor and/or major > >errors.. but something like this should, generally speaking, work... > >you could just give it a try ;) > > >especially this line might be problematic: c.SetAttrib “response”& > >responsecount &“.rt”, SLIDENAME.RTTime - c.getattrib > >("slidestarttime") .  If so then break it down into one line for the > >calulations (create variable called erm... responsetime, then use a > >line: responsetime = SLIDENAME.RTTime - c.getattrib ("slidestarttime") > >followed by a separate line to log this value: c.SetAttrib "reponse"& > >responsecount &".rt", responsetime . > > >Please le me know whether that works :) > > >Best, > > >liw > > >On May 26, 11:02 am, Michiel Spape > >wrote: > > > Hiya, > > > The easy way would be to pay someone to code it for you! > > > > But, for anyone to help: > > > - What is "little experience"? Have you read > > the entire getting started guide and/or additional material (linked before)? > > > - Where do you get stuck? > > > Best, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alexander > > > Sent: 26 May 2011 07:36 > > > To: E-Prime > > > Subject: multiple mouse reactions in one trial > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have little experience with eprime. > > > I want to do an experiment in which four digits are presented > > > simultaneous on the screen. These should be selected in ascending > > > order with the mouse. For every mouse click the reaction time and the > > > clicked off digit should be recorded. The digit already been selected > > > should be hidden. The next trial with new digits should start only > > > when all four digits have been clicked. > > > For notes on how I can solve this in an easily way, I would be more > > > than grateful. > > > > Best regards > > > Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From krupa.d.sheth at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 10:33:36 2011 From: krupa.d.sheth at gmail.com (Krupa Sheth) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 03:33:36 -0700 Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! We are also using this experiment to assess for inhibition in children with neurodevelopmental disorders (we used the anti-saccade task). Therefore by randomising the fixation duration it allows a) to ensure that their gaze is constantly at the centre of the screen ensuring that study participants are motivated and attentive throughout the testing session and more importantly b) prevents participants from utilizing any anticipatory strategies while executing the task. Hope this answers your question. -- Best Wishes, Krupa Sheth Research Associate Cerebra Centre of Neurodevelopmental Disorders University of Birmingham Edgbaston B15 2TT On May 31, 5:46 pm, liwenna wrote: > Glad you got it to work, but if you don't mind me asking: why would > you want your fixation cross to have a random duration? > > I've seen people ask for this before, but as far as I can see it makes > no sense at all. > > The fixation cross serves the purpose of fixating the gaze and warning > that the new trial is too start. It exerts it's attention capturing > 'quality' only at it's onset and should therefore appear always about > 500 ms prior to the start of the trial, instead of having a random > duration. Especially with a fixation cross as long as 3500 changes are > pretty high that your participant's gaze has wandered elsewhere after > 3500 ms when the trial starts, in which case the fixation cross > achieved the exact opposite from what it is intended to do. The cross > intends to indicate the start of the trial to the pp and therefore it > should be predictable in it's duration. > > You do want to have a random duration inter trial interval in order to > avoid automation of the timing of the motor response over trials, but > rather use a separate blank slide (inter trial interval slide) with > it's duration set to random in between the response slide and the next > fixation cross (i,e, either at the total end or right at the start of > the trial procedure), instead of randomizing the duration of the > cross. > > best, > > liw > > On May 31, 6:18 pm, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hiya, > > There's indeed nothing wrong with the code, but yes, it's more elegant to do David's suggestion, because you're at least sure it's also logged. There is also good reason to do the nested list with Duration, because you're never quite sure whether "random" isn't too random for your purposes. Suppose, for instance, that you constantly show each and every subject really short fixations? That will make an utter mess of your jittering purposes! It's unlikely, but still possible nonetheless - the joy of randomising with replacement. So, indeed, if you have a nice nested list with every random value (you can safely skip a few, because of screen refresh rates), you can be safe in the knowledge that at least you're sure no value is used twice (depending on the length of the list and the number of trials, of course). > > > Best, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spapé > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > Michiel Spapé > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > > Sent: 31 May 2011 15:57 > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > Subject: RE: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) > > PST's trained staff takes any and all questions > > athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp > > , and they strive to respond to all requests in > > 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their > > substitute for proper documentation, so make full > > use of it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST > > Web Support, please extend the courtesy of > > posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > That said, here is my take... > > > First, I agree that you would do well to work > > through Mich's E-Primer, as well as the Getting > > Started and User's Guides that came with E-Prime. > > > Now, the inline code method allows you to easily > > randomize down to the ms, and without using > > attribute references.  OTOH, the lack of an > > attribute reference means that the data log > > contains no record of the randomized fixation > > duration.  So I would modify Mich's example as follows: > > > c.SetAttrib "FixDur", Random(1500,3500) > > > Then, in my fixation object, I would set Duration to "[FixDur]".  Done. > > > But if you don't mind (or even prefer) a coarser > > grain (say, 1500 - 3500 ms in steps of 100 ms) > > then you can accomplish this without any inline > > code.  Just use a List, or perhaps a nested List, > > to hold all the possible fixation durations, and > > set the List Selection to Random.  Suppose we > > call that attribute (i.e., column) > > "FixDur".  Then, as before, in your fixation > > object set Duration to "[FixDur]".  Done.  (For > > more on nested Lists in particular, see Appendix > > C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime.) > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > At 5/31/2011 10:26 AM Tuesday, Michiel Spape wrote: > > >It's actually somewhere in the E-Primer: > > >http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf > > >  as an example of what to do with line-in > > >stuff... I suggest going through the last 2 chapters, or earlier. > > >But, then again, if you have a textdisplay > > >showing just a +, called FixationDisplay, and a > > >short inline before that: > > >FixationDisplay.Duration = Random(1500,3500) - you're done. > > >Best, > > >Mich > > > >Michiel Spapé > > >Research Fellow > > >Perception & Action group > > >University of Nottingham > > >School of Psychology > > >www.cognitology.eu > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krupa Sheth > > >Sent: 31 May 2011 14:34 > > >To: E-Prime > > >Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > >Hi! I been totally baffled by this and I am sure there is a way where > > >to over come this. > > > >Is there any function in E-Prime that allows the fixation point ("+") > > >to appear for a random duration between 1500ms to 3500ms. I am sure it > > >is possible but am so clueless how to do it. > > > >Many Thanks!! > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pfc.groot at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 21:42:50 2011 From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 23:42:50 +0200 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Nate, I really don't think that is true. Flat screens have the same kind of serial refresh mechanism for updating pixels. It's easy to check with a photo-sensor and oscilloscope. Or if you don't have access to that: just switch of the onset synchronization in a rapid alternating black-white sequence: trial sequence with 3 empty text objects (A,B,C): A=duration=100ms, prerelease=100, background=black, onset synced B=duration=[S]ms, prerelease=[S], background=white, onset NOT synced C=duration=0ms, prerelease=0,background=black,onset synced Just run those trials in a trial list (N=20) and try values for [S] which are smaller than the refresh interval. You can also put the trial list in a block list with sequential range for the S attribute. You will see the same kind of horizontal distortions as with CRT monitors, caused by fragmented screen updates. That would not be possible with a fast bit-blitting pipeline. I've even seen this on a very convincing high-speed movie (@1000Hz) that demonstrated the serial update for both CRT and TFT displays. The real difference between CRT and flat screens is that pixel the intensity curves are really different. CRTs have a very short (but intense) peak, while flat screens have a very constant intensity. (That's why CRT's flicker at low refresh rates and LCDs do not.) Best Paul -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: flickertest.es2 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 90778 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Jun 2 16:12:27 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:12:27 -0400 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6/1/2011 05:42 PM Wednesday, Paul Groot wrote: >The real difference between CRT and flat screens is that pixel the >intensity curves are really different. CRTs have a very short (but >intense) peak, while flat screens have a very constant intensity. >(That's why CRT's flicker at low refresh rates and LCDs do not.) Haven't measured this lately, but another difference we found a few years ago was that LCD pixels have a very long (> 100 ms) and biphasic offset. That could pose a problem for some sensitive studies. We have had to stockpile a bunch of CRTs for just this reason, nobody sells new ones anymore. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From njvack at wisc.edu Thu Jun 2 19:27:40 2011 From: njvack at wisc.edu (Nate Vack) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 14:27:40 -0500 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Paul Groot wrote: > Hi Nate, > > I really don't think that is true. Flat screens have the same kind of > serial refresh mechanism for updating pixels. It's easy to check with > a photo-sensor and oscilloscope. Or if you don't have access to that: > just switch of the onset synchronization in a rapid alternating > black-white sequence: > trial sequence with 3 empty text objects (A,B,C): > > A=duration=100ms, prerelease=100, background=black, onset synced > B=duration=[S]ms, prerelease=[S], background=white, onset NOT synced > C=duration=0ms, prerelease=0,background=black,onset synced > > Just run those trials in a trial list (N=20) and try values for [S] > which are smaller than the refresh interval.  You can also put the > trial list in a block list with sequential range for the S attribute. > > You will see the same kind of horizontal distortions as with CRT > monitors, caused by fragmented screen updates. That would not be > possible with a fast bit-blitting pipeline. Huh! Neat. Didn't expect that. Thanks! On this same topic, however: it's been my experience that different "identical" monitors are oftentimes not particularly identical, even when they come in the same lot -- I used to run computer labs, and the images produced on a shipment of Dells varied quite a lot. So if you really care about the timings of visual stimuli, you'll want to develop some kind of validation for your actual hardware. Cheers, -Nate -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pfc.groot at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 22:40:40 2011 From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 00:40:40 +0200 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree. For time critical experiments one should always be suspicious about what's really going on. LCD response times improved significantly (<10ms) since the introduction of special gamers and 3D displays (>100 Hz), but onset problems keep popping up. I would recommend to buy a high speed photo camera to validate display timing. Those neat little camera's are very affordable these days and are ideal for checking onset problems. A simple LED that can be connected to the printer port should also be added to the validation toolbox. (A LED can be switch on/off very fast by eprime if it's connected to the printer port.) Paul -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 00:59:31 2011 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 20:59:31 -0400 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: how would the LED help? On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Paul Groot wrote: > I agree. For time critical experiments one should always be suspicious > about what's really going on. LCD response times improved > significantly (<10ms) since the introduction of special gamers and 3D > displays (>100 Hz), but onset problems keep popping up. I would > recommend to buy a high speed photo camera to validate display timing. > Those neat little camera's are very affordable these days and are > ideal for checking onset problems. A simple LED that can be connected > to the printer port should also be added to the validation toolbox. (A > LED can be switch on/off very fast by eprime if it's connected to the > printer port.) > > Paul > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From l.bugayong at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 07:04:58 2011 From: l.bugayong at gmail.com (Suli) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 00:04:58 -0700 Subject: Need help setting up image-selection task Message-ID: Dear Google-Group members, We are a group of European linguists trying out our luck with E-Prime for our current research project. Being complete E-Prime novices and given the time pressure we are under, we'd need some help in developing our experiment: The respondents will be asked to pick one out of four images in a given slide. Preferably, this should be “click-and-drag”-able onto one of the other three images or onto a specific field within the slide. If this is not possible, it would suffice to highlight the selected image and then, in the next slide, select the target image. What would be really neat is if all the while we could also record the cursor movements. I have been on the PST-support site and have fiddled around with various samples (Click-and-Drag/Track-Cursor-Coordinates/...). As I'm E-Prime illiterate and can't decipher the inline scripts (and all the other magic), however, it's impossible for me to make out how to combine these different components and create just one experiment. Is there anyone who can offer some insights or a quick fix? Thanks a lot! Suli -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From njvack at wisc.edu Fri Jun 3 13:16:40 2011 From: njvack at wisc.edu (Nate Vack) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:16:40 -0500 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:59 PM, ben robinson wrote: > how would the LED help? An LED will have a much faster (and reliable) response time than some random monitor, so you can use it (with a high-speed camera) to validate your monitor's performance. -n -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mpaffel at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 14:11:38 2011 From: mpaffel at gmail.com (Matt Paffel) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:11:38 -0700 Subject: E-DataAid crashing In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92F6E114919@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Thank you all for the input. Thankfully I was able to recover the data using E-Recovery with the .txt files. Here is PST's response if this should ever happen to anyone else: "Unfortunately, it seems as though the data files became corrupt, but it is not clear why. We have had users report this before, and I have also seen it happen myself, but it is a pretty rare occurrence. Since you have found a way to regenerate the data files, you should now have access to all of your data files. If the problem is no longer occurring, I would say that this was most likely one of those rare occurrences (especially since nothing in your information above points to a single cause)." Additionally, should anyone have a similar problem in the future: "We have had users report that emailing data files, transferring them to a flash drive, etc. has caused them to become corrupt. If you need to email files, for example, you should ZIP them into a ZIP file and email the .ZIP. If you need to transfer them from one machine to the next, you can also burn the files to a CD to transfer them. In any case, you will want to save the files locally to the machine to which they have been transferred before opening them (i.e., do not open them directly from the external media or email)." On May 23, 10:55 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hiya, > I always found E-DataAid to be exceptionally stable. Also, I'd be amazed if updating to any other E-Prime version will do anything - as far as I can see, the only thing that's different between 2.0x and EP1 in terms of e-dataAid is that it saves the same files with an added 2. These can be interchangeably opened, so one wonders what the great use of the 2 in the name is, there. > > My immediate thought would be there's something either wrong with your e-dataAid install (so reinstall), or the data-files themselves. I think the first step the people over at PST will want to sort out is whether there's a problem with your E-DataAid (presumably with its install then, perhaps missing .net components or whatnot), or whether your data-files are somehow corrupted. Have you checked yet whether anyone else can open them? Have you tried re-making the .edat files with E-Recovery? When exactly does E-DataAid crash anyway (during opening of files, during some analysis, &c.)? > > As a side note, does anyone else think e-Prime should, in this i-Age, change the name? I'm personally of the opinion that Me-Prime sounds better (although perhaps a bit too late, as YouTube, MySpace and YouGov have all lost that glossiness... Gee-Prime and /i/-Prime will probably end up to be rather costly). > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MattPaffel > Sent: 20 May 2011 19:12 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: E-DataAid crashing > > Hi David, > > I sent PST a support request but I was hoping one of you E-Prime gurus > here had some insight so I don't have to wait two weeks for a reply > (not meant as a dis to PST, just impatient). > > Also, thanks for the heads up concerning .90. > > On May 20, 12:56 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Matt, > > > Have you asked PST Web Support > > (http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp)? I would > > try that first. > > > Also, latest release of EP2 is 2.0.8.90, so you might also try updating. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > >E-DataAid has been crashing when opening files. However, it doesn't > > >happen with every file I try to open. > > > >When I try to open the files on XP, I get the error message: "E- > > >DataAid has encountered a problem and needs to close." > > > >When I try to open the files on Win 7, I get the error message: "E- > > >DataAid application has stopped working." > > > >Has anyone ever experienced this? If so, can the problem be remedied? > > > >E-Prime version: 2.0.8.79- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Jun 3 17:49:34 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 13:49:34 -0400 Subject: Need help setting up image-selection task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Suli, Since no one else has weighed in, I will now. Glad you have taken the trouble to first explore the PST site and the examples provided there, you are on the right track. Yes, what you want to do requires extensive coding that you would have to build up based on several of those examples plus your own skills. I do not think there is a "quick fix". As Michiel Spapé has said in a recent thread here, the "easy" fix would be to hire someone else to do this for you. But that would not be quick, as it might take some time to find a competent E-Prime developer for hire. My advice, as always, is instead to bite the bullet and take the slow way -- start with a course in Introduction to Computer Programming to get the underlying concepts and principles, and go from there. To that end, please see my posts here on How to Solve E-Prime Puzzles, and How to Learn E-Prime Programming (http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/5425e03968cab428 , http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b0ce54870b723fc3 ). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 6/3/2011 03:04 AM Friday, you wrote: >Dear Google-Group members, > >We are a group of European linguists trying out our luck with E-Prime >for our current research project. Being complete E-Prime novices and >given the time pressure we are under, we'd need some help in >developing our experiment: > >The respondents will be asked to pick one out of four images in a >given slide. Preferably, this should be “click-and-drag”-able onto one >of the other three images or onto a specific field within the slide. >If this is not possible, it would suffice to highlight the selected >image and then, in the next slide, select the target image. > >What would be really neat is if all the while we could also record the >cursor movements. > >I have been on the PST-support site and have fiddled around with >various samples (Click-and-Drag/Track-Cursor-Coordinates/...). As I'm >E-Prime illiterate and can't decipher the inline scripts (and all the >other magic), however, it's impossible for me to make out how to >combine these different components and create just one experiment. Is >there anyone who can offer some insights or a quick fix? > >Thanks a lot! > >Suli -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 23:35:49 2011 From: teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com (Javier Alvarez) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 16:35:49 -0700 Subject: Trouble, special feedback Message-ID: Hi. I'm Javier, from Chile. I'm working on an experiment about concept formation. Well, the experiment consists the displaying of words, where the test subject must score the word in a scale 0 to 7. At this point is everything right, but I'm stuck on a trouble, I need to show a final slide where appear the individual scores that the participant gave to each word, e.g. [word 1] 5 [word 2] 4 [word 3] 7 [word 4] 0 The experiment has 4 stages, and each stage has between 10 and 20 trials. I need 4 final displays. I'm hopping your help. Thanks. P.S: I'm spanish speaker, excuse me if my english is bad or unintelligible. Javier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From philippegoldin at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 06:07:41 2011 From: philippegoldin at gmail.com (philippe goldin) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 23:07:41 -0700 Subject: dot probe in e-prime scripts Message-ID: Does anyone know where I can find any versions of the dot-probe already programmed in E-prime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 09:55:32 2011 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 02:55:32 -0700 Subject: dot probe in e-prime scripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is quite some information available in this group's archives, I think. Generally speaking, you probably don't want to use a pre-made script as it (a) is highly unlikely to have exactly those features that you want for your probe and (b) creating the script yourself (based on info's around) gives you much more control over your experiment and will absolutely make your analysis easier as you'll be better able to read the log files and understand what the program did when and why. Best, liw On 7 jun, 08:07, philippe goldin wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find any versions of the dot-probe already > programmed in E-prime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From a.assfalg at googlemail.com Tue Jun 7 12:35:10 2011 From: a.assfalg at googlemail.com (Alexander) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 05:35:10 -0700 Subject: OSPAN-task Message-ID: Hi alltogether, I am wondering if anyone has a script sample for the OSPAN-task or if someone can help me with the program. My problem is the simplest possible programming of the rising number of calculations and the corresponding rise in the number of stimuli to memorize. Thanks for any help!! Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 7 14:03:35 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:03:35 -0400 Subject: OSPAN-task In-Reply-To: <7d7eeed8-9326-4400-9ea3-173ac0dccd6b@t16g2000vbi.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=e-prime+ospan -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi alltogether, > >I am wondering if anyone has a script sample for the OSPAN-task or if >someone can help me with the program. >My problem is the simplest possible programming of the rising number >of calculations and the corresponding rise in the number of stimuli to >memorize. > >Thanks for any help!! > >Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 7 14:07:36 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:07:36 -0400 Subject: dot probe in e-prime scripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=e-prime+dot-probe -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Does anyone know where I can find any versions of the dot-probe >already programmed in E-prime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 7 14:16:19 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:16:19 -0400 Subject: Trouble, special feedback In-Reply-To: <6782341f-4a87-4af0-892c-deeb30ff28ed@e35g2000yqc.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Javier, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... In broad outline, you will have to use some global variables (or arrays) to keep track of all these scores, and then use those global variables to construct the final slide. For starters, see Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. If you need more help with global variables and arrays in general then you might want to take a course in Introduction to Computer Programming, or consult any elementary computer programming text. BTW, I find your English just fine, hope you can understand mine. Good luck, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 6/6/2011 07:35 PM Monday, you wrote: >Hi. >I'm Javier, from Chile. I'm working on an experiment about concept >formation. Well, the experiment consists the displaying of words, >where the test subject must score the word in a scale 0 to 7. At this >point is everything right, but I'm stuck on a trouble, I need to show >a final slide where appear the individual scores that the participant >gave to each word, e.g. > >[word 1] 5 >[word 2] 4 >[word 3] 7 >[word 4] 0 > > >The experiment has 4 stages, and each stage has between 10 and 20 >trials. I need 4 final displays. I'm hopping your help. Thanks. > >P.S: I'm spanish speaker, excuse me if my english is bad or >unintelligible. > >Javier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From adeline.paignon at univ-savoie.fr Tue Jun 7 17:14:54 2011 From: adeline.paignon at univ-savoie.fr (Adeline) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:14:54 -0700 Subject: select only one level in a list ? help In-Reply-To: <4ddaaf44.cf472a0a.3fde.ffff8767SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: thanks for your second proposition to select my line ! it seems to be a good way to select just one line depending on subject,but I am not familiarized with the use of "counterbalance", I have to work on it, to see how it works ! thanks again for your help (sorry for my english, I hope you understand what I want to say) On 23 mai, 20:56, David McFarlane wrote: > Not the solution I had in mind, as it requires more code than the > Counterbalance approach -- i.e., in the List property pages set the > List Order to Counterbalance and Order By to whatever (e.g., > Subject), then use inline code any time before List1 to override the > Order By, e.g., > > Set List1.Deletion = PickOne(c.GetAttrib("mynumpermutation")) > > Admittedly, this is not officially documented, and you can only learn > this sort of thing by looking at the generated source code and hacking with it. > > So your solution does the job just as well and I am glad that it > works for you.  It also, I admit, opens the way for other possibilities. > > Thanks for posting back with your solution, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 5/23/2011 12:47 PM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >thanks, > >as you said I find a solution in using this code > > >Dim nLevel As Integer > >For nLevel = 1 To List1.Size > >     If nLevel = c.GetAttrib("mynumpermutation") then > >         List1.SetWeight nLevel, 1 > >     else List1.SetWeight nLevel, 0 > >Next 'nLevel > >List1.Reset > > >Thanks > > >On 19 mai, 17:39, David McFarlane wrote: > > >Adeline, > > > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > > > takes any and all questions at > >http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > Indeed, this is the purpose of Counterbalance in the Order field of > > > the Selection tab of any List.  You might learn a bit more about this > > > from either the User's Guide or the Reference Guide that came with > > > E-Prime, or my own short write ups found at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/26d2e1e83... > > > and > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/879ed8885.... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hi, (sorry for my english !!) > > > >I'm working on an experiment of artificial grammar. I use permutation > > > >to attribute 4 colors to 4 circles (having all possibles combinaisons) > > > >but I don't know how to select only one combinaison. > > > >I have my 24 combinaisons in List1 at the beggining of the experiment, > > > >and I want to select one line according to the number entered by the > > > >experimentateur. I want this number to be entered like subject , > > > >session etc .. > > > >Does anyone could help me ? > > > >Thanks > > > >Adeline- Masquer le texte des messages précédents - > > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 08:33:47 2011 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 01:33:47 -0700 Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration In-Reply-To: <9b2e12a4-4970-4327-ac40-c0a24bc3dbe4@x3g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I ment to react back for a while but kept forgetting. I stand corrected on the use of randomizing fixation durations, I forgot the ERP rationale that Michiel explained. Still for the use that Krupa described I'd say that a 3500 ms cross defies it's own purpose and in such a design I would give a larger range of durations to a blank intertrialinterval display and a smaller durations range to the cross. David and Miciel, also thanks for pointing out the drawbacks of using the random(value,value) inline. I like it when such discussions arise. Best, AW On Jun 1, 12:33 pm, Krupa Sheth wrote: > Hi! > > We are also using this experiment to assess for inhibition in children > with neurodevelopmental disorders (we used the anti-saccade task). > Therefore by randomising the fixation duration it allows a) to ensure > that their gaze is constantly at the centre of the screen ensuring > that  study participants are motivated and attentive throughout the > testing session and more importantly b) prevents participants from > utilizing any anticipatory strategies while executing the task. > > Hope this answers your question. > > -- > Best Wishes, > > Krupa Sheth > Research Associate > Cerebra Centre of Neurodevelopmental Disorders > University of Birmingham > Edgbaston > B15 2TT > > On May 31, 5:46 pm, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > > > Glad you got it to work, but if you don't mind me asking: why would > > you want your fixation cross to have a random duration? > > > I've seen people ask for this before, but as far as I can see it makes > > no sense at all. > > > The fixation cross serves the purpose of fixating the gaze and warning > > that the new trial is too start. It exerts it's attention capturing > > 'quality' only at it's onset and should therefore appear always about > > 500 ms prior to the start of the trial, instead of having a random > > duration. Especially with a fixation cross as long as 3500 changes are > > pretty high that your participant's gaze has wandered elsewhere after > > 3500 ms when the trial starts, in which case the fixation cross > > achieved the exact opposite from what it is intended to do. The cross > > intends to indicate the start of the trial to the pp and therefore it > > should be predictable in it's duration. > > > You do want to have a random duration inter trial interval in order to > > avoid automation of the timing of the motor response over trials, but > > rather use a separate blank slide (inter trial interval slide) with > > it's duration set to random in between the response slide and the next > > fixation cross (i,e, either at the total end or right at the start of > > the trial procedure), instead of randomizing the duration of the > > cross. > > > best, > > > liw > > > On May 31, 6:18 pm, Michiel Spape > > wrote: > > > > Hiya, > > > There's indeed nothing wrong with the code, but yes, it's more elegant to do David's suggestion, because you're at least sure it's also logged. There is also good reason to do the nested list with Duration, because you're never quite sure whether "random" isn't too random for your purposes. Suppose, for instance, that you constantly show each and every subject really short fixations? That will make an utter mess of your jittering purposes! It's unlikely, but still possible nonetheless - the joy of randomising with replacement. So, indeed, if you have a nice nested list with every random value (you can safely skip a few, because of screen refresh rates), you can be safe in the knowledge that at least you're sure no value is used twice (depending on the length of the list and the number of trials, of course). > > > > Best, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > Michiel Spapé > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > Sent: 31 May 2011 15:57 > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > Subject: RE: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) > > > PST's trained staff takes any and all questions > > > athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp > > > , and they strive to respond to all requests in > > > 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their > > > substitute for proper documentation, so make full > > > use of it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST > > > Web Support, please extend the courtesy of > > > posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > First, I agree that you would do well to work > > > through Mich's E-Primer, as well as the Getting > > > Started and User's Guides that came with E-Prime. > > > > Now, the inline code method allows you to easily > > > randomize down to the ms, and without using > > > attribute references.  OTOH, the lack of an > > > attribute reference means that the data log > > > contains no record of the randomized fixation > > > duration.  So I would modify Mich's example as follows: > > > > c.SetAttrib "FixDur", Random(1500,3500) > > > > Then, in my fixation object, I would set Duration to "[FixDur]".  Done. > > > > But if you don't mind (or even prefer) a coarser > > > grain (say, 1500 - 3500 ms in steps of 100 ms) > > > then you can accomplish this without any inline > > > code.  Just use a List, or perhaps a nested List, > > > to hold all the possible fixation durations, and > > > set the List Selection to Random.  Suppose we > > > call that attribute (i.e., column) > > > "FixDur".  Then, as before, in your fixation > > > object set Duration to "[FixDur]".  Done.  (For > > > more on nested Lists in particular, see Appendix > > > C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime.) > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 5/31/2011 10:26 AM Tuesday, Michiel Spape wrote: > > > >It's actually somewhere in the E-Primer: > > > >http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf > > > >  as an example of what to do with line-in > > > >stuff... I suggest going through the last 2 chapters, or earlier. > > > >But, then again, if you have a textdisplay > > > >showing just a +, called FixationDisplay, and a > > > >short inline before that: > > > >FixationDisplay.Duration = Random(1500,3500) - you're done. > > > >Best, > > > >Mich > > > > >Michiel Spapé > > > >Research Fellow > > > >Perception & Action group > > > >University of Nottingham > > > >School of Psychology > > > >www.cognitology.eu > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krupa Sheth > > > >Sent: 31 May 2011 14:34 > > > >To: E-Prime > > > >Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > > >Hi! I been totally baffled by this and I am sure there is a way where > > > >to over come this. > > > > >Is there any function in E-Prime that allows the fixation point ("+") > > > >to appear for a random duration between 1500ms to 3500ms. I am sure it > > > >is possible but am so clueless how to do it. > > > > >Many Thanks!! > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 16:18:46 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:18:46 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli Message-ID: Hi all, I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design with four groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the conditions randomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, regardless of the counterbalancing of conditions has a unique ordering of the stimuli from start through finish. Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) many thanks in advance, Emmet Clarke University of York -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 22:38:25 2011 From: teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com (Javier Alvarez) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:38:25 -0700 Subject: Trouble, special feedback In-Reply-To: <4dee32bd.ce5e2a0a.1b83.610fSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks too much!!! I'm very grateful for your help. Vey useful. THANKS!!!11!!!!!!!! Javier On 7 jun, 10:16, David McFarlane wrote: > Javier, > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take... > > In broad outline, you will have to use some global variables (or > arrays) to keep track of all these scores, and then use those global > variables to construct the final slide.  For starters, see Chapter 4 > of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime.  If you need more help > with global variables and arrays in general then you might want to > take a course in Introduction to Computer Programming, or consult any > elementary computer programming text. > > BTW, I find your English just fine, hope you can understand mine. > > Good luck, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 6/6/2011 07:35 PM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Hi. > >I'm Javier, from Chile. I'm working on an experiment about concept > >formation. Well, the experiment consists the displaying of words, > >where the test subject must score the word in a scale 0 to 7. At this > >point is everything right, but I'm stuck on a trouble, I need to show > >a final slide where appear the individual scores that the participant > >gave to each word, e.g. > > >[word 1]      5 > >[word 2]      4 > >[word 3]      7 > >[word 4]      0 > > >The experiment has 4 stages, and each stage has between 10 and 20 > >trials. I need 4 final displays. I'm hopping your help. Thanks. > > >P.S: I'm spanish speaker, excuse me if my english is bad or > >unintelligible. > > >Javier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Jun 16 18:39:50 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:39:50 -0400 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: <11dc0967-0069-464c-9e2c-70de299a3707@d19g2000prh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Emmet, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I can. Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled). You can do this very easily with a nested List. Just put all your stimuli in their own nested List, say, StimList. Set that List to Random. Now, in any other List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just as you normally would. You can have one main List take 25 samples from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up right where it left off. IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over. Or, you can get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them. Think of nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a nested List. I have written about this elsewhere, if you search around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but here is another attempt... So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested Lists) to draw from. So, you start by shuffling all these decks as needed. Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the attribute values written on it. If any of these names another deck, you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from that deck, etc. When you are done you will have a set of attribute values to work with for that trial. At the end of the trial you put all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and then draw new cards. Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, but this is a pretty good first approximation. Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex matter. Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design with four >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the >conditions randomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, >regardless of the counterbalancing of conditions has a unique ordering >of the stimuli from start through finish. > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > >many thanks in advance, > >Emmet Clarke > >University of York -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 13:26:00 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:26:00 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: <4dfa4e05.94592a0a.689c.1bc6SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with it: >You can do this very easily > with a nested List. Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > List, say, StimList. So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I get this error message: "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: Can't find procedure definition" So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? many thanks in advance, Emmet University of York On Jun 16, 7:39 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Emmet, > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take... > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > can.  Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled).  You can do this very easily > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > List, say, StimList.  Set that List to Random.  Now, in any other > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > as you normally would.  You can have one main List take 25 samples > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > right where it left off.  IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over.  Or, you can > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them.  Think of > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > nested List.  I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > here is another attempt... > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > Lists) to draw from.  So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > needed.  Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > attribute values written on it.  If any of these names another deck, > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > that deck, etc.  When you are done you will have a set of attribute > values to work with for that trial.  At the end of the trial you put > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > then draw new cards.  Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > matter.  Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > >Hi all, > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > >many thanks in advance, > > >Emmet Clarke > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From r.k.withers at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 18:45:16 2011 From: r.k.withers at gmail.com (rkw) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:45:16 -0700 Subject: Display a list of words before randomly repeating part of the list Message-ID: Hi, I am new to using E-Prime and am currently in the process of designing a memory task. Basically the subjects are shown a bunch of words in a row and need to identify whether or not that word has appeared before during that run. What I am struggling with is that what needs to happen is that 48 new words (of a list of 84 words) are shown, and then after these 48, 12 of these 48 that have been shown are randomly selected and repeated with the presentation of the remaining 36 words (from the original list of 84). So far I have tried splitting the BlockProc into 2 different TrialLists, the first which has a nested list indicating that 48 of the 84 words need to be randomly selected. For the second TrialList I tried nesting a Repeat List and a list that was the same as above (therefore it would present the remaining 36 of 84 words). I couldn't figure out how to set the RepeatList to only randomly select words from the 48 words shown first, without just randomly repeating 12 words from the entire 84. Perhaps I have gone about solving this problem in entirely the wrong way. Any suggestions or advice or answers would be incredibly appreciated! I also am very unfamiliar with writing eBasic script, so I have been trying to avoid using that, but I am entirely prepared to make use of it in order to solve this problem. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 10:15:29 2011 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 03:15:29 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: and what happens if you, in the new nested list, remove whatever is entered in the collumn 'procedure' ? On Jun 23, 3:26 pm, Emmet wrote: > Hi David, > > Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response > emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what > you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with > it: > > >You can do this very easily > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > List, say, StimList. > > So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, > for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my > slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I > get this error message: > > "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: > Can't find procedure definition" > > So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. > Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am > slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that > perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? > > many thanks in advance, > > Emmet > > University of York > > On Jun 16, 7:39 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > > > > > Emmet, > > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > That said, here is my take... > > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > > can.  Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled).  You can do this very easily > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > List, say, StimList.  Set that List to Random.  Now, in any other > > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > > as you normally would.  You can have one main List take 25 samples > > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > > right where it left off.  IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over.  Or, you can > > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them.  Think of > > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > > nested List.  I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > > here is another attempt... > > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > > Lists) to draw from.  So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > > needed.  Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > > attribute values written on it.  If any of these names another deck, > > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > > that deck, etc.  When you are done you will have a set of attribute > > values to work with for that trial.  At the end of the trial you put > > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > > then draw new cards.  Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > > matter.  Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > >Hi all, > > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > > >many thanks in advance, > > > >Emmet Clarke > > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From evelina at illinois.edu Mon Jun 27 02:43:58 2011 From: evelina at illinois.edu (Evelina Tapia) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:43:58 -0700 Subject: Input object property Message-ID: Hello, I want to be able to input a color in which words on slides are displayed at the beginning (or middle) of an experiment. I thought of using the message box but I am not sure how to pass on the input from the message box to the appropriate level at which the object in question is stored. Also, is it even possible to successfully input and use colors as RGB values (e.g. 133,123,142)? If not, what would be the best way to be able to have the flexibility to input desirable RGB values? I have limited experience with InLines so I'll be grateful for any suggestions :) Evelina -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 10:40:27 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 03:40:27 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, Thanks for the advice- emptying the procedure column worked and I am now able to show more than one slide per each condition of my experiment. This has created another problem for me because now I can only seem to get text into my slides. I used text just to get the design up and running but now when I enter a filename into the Stimulus attribute of my nested list, it enters the text of the filename rather than referencing the file itself. I can get my picture up but only if I insert it directly into the slide object. But I can't do that because I have 125 of them to exhibit! I'm getting for antsy about my project now, deadlines and this eprime business has consumed my life! many many thanks, Emmet On Jun 24, 11:15 am, liwenna wrote: > and what happens if you, in the new nested list, remove whatever is > entered in the collumn 'procedure' ? > > On Jun 23, 3:26 pm, Emmet wrote: > > > > > Hi David, > > > Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response > > emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what > > you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with > > it: > > > >You can do this very easily > > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > List, say, StimList. > > > So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, > > for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my > > slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I > > get this error message: > > > "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: > > Can't find procedure definition" > > > So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. > > Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am > > slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that > > perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? > > > many thanks in advance, > > > Emmet > > > University of York > > > On Jun 16, 7:39 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > Emmet, > > > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > > > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > > > can.  Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > > > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > > > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > > > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled).  You can do this very easily > > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > List, say, StimList.  Set that List to Random.  Now, in any other > > > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > > > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > > > as you normally would.  You can have one main List take 25 samples > > > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > > > right where it left off.  IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > > > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > > > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over.  Or, you can > > > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > > > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them.  Think of > > > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > > > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > > > nested List.  I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > > > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > > > here is another attempt... > > > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > > > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > > > Lists) to draw from.  So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > > > needed.  Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > > > attribute values written on it.  If any of these names another deck, > > > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > > > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > > > that deck, etc.  When you are done you will have a set of attribute > > > values to work with for that trial.  At the end of the trial you put > > > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > > > then draw new cards.  Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > > > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > > > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > > > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > > > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > > > matter.  Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > >Hi all, > > > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > > > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > > > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > > > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > > > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > > > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > > > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > > > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > > > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > > > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > > > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > > > >many thanks in advance, > > > > >Emmet Clarke > > > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 15:05:55 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 08:05:55 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi everyone, I had a very productive few hours since my last panicked entry and I think I have my experiment sorted very well. It was almost a couple of Eureka moments and browsing previous questions and the PST forums. I now have three conditions and a practice block, all drawing 25 random pictures from a nested list of 125 pictures. I must say, the userguide, while initially helpful, was more of a hindrance towards the end. I felt that discovering how to construct the bare bones "skeleton" of the sequence of events was the key. Since I did that, I've been adding bits and pieces on here and there for the last couple of hours and I think I may be ready to test my participants in a few days. Thank you for your help, David and Liwenna. best regards, Emmet University of York On Jun 27, 11:40 am, Emmet wrote: > Hi Liwenna, > > Thanks for the advice- emptying the procedure column worked and I am > now able to show more than one slide per each condition of my > experiment. This has created another problem for me because now I can > only seem to get text into my slides. I used text just to get the > design up and running but now when I enter a filename into the > Stimulus attribute of my nested list, it enters the text of the > filename rather than referencing the file itself. I can get my picture > up but only if I insert it directly into the slide object. But I can't > do that because I have 125 of them to exhibit! I'm getting for antsy > about my project now, deadlines and this eprime business has consumed > my life! > > many many thanks, > > Emmet > > On Jun 24, 11:15 am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > and what happens if you, in the new nested list, remove whatever is > > entered in the collumn 'procedure' ? > > > On Jun 23, 3:26 pm, Emmet wrote: > > > > Hi David, > > > > Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response > > > emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what > > > you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with > > > it: > > > > >You can do this very easily > > > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > > List, say, StimList. > > > > So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, > > > for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my > > > slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I > > > get this error message: > > > > "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: > > > Can't find procedure definition" > > > > So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. > > > Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am > > > slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that > > > perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? > > > > many thanks in advance, > > > > Emmet > > > > University of York > > > > On Jun 16, 7:39 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Emmet, > > > > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > > > > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > > > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > > > > can.  Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > > > > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > > > > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > > > > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled).  You can do this very easily > > > > with a nested List.  Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > > List, say, StimList.  Set that List to Random.  Now, in any other > > > > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > > > > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > > > > as you normally would.  You can have one main List take 25 samples > > > > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > > > > right where it left off.  IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > > > > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > > > > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over.  Or, you can > > > > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > > > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > > > > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them.  Think of > > > > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > > > > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > > > > nested List.  I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > > > > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > > > > here is another attempt... > > > > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > > > > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > > > > Lists) to draw from.  So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > > > > needed.  Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > > > > attribute values written on it.  If any of these names another deck, > > > > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > > > > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > > > > that deck, etc.  When you are done you will have a set of attribute > > > > values to work with for that trial.  At the end of the trial you put > > > > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > > > > then draw new cards.  Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > > > > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > > > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > > > > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > > > > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > > > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > > > > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > > > > matter.  Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > > > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > > > > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > > > > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > > > > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > > > > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > > > > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > > > > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > > > > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > > > > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > > > > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > > > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > > > > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > > > > >many thanks in advance, > > > > > >Emmet Clarke > > > > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From evelina at illinois.edu Mon Jun 27 18:13:48 2011 From: evelina at illinois.edu (Evelina Tapia) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:13:48 -0700 Subject: Pre-loading images and nested lists Message-ID: Hello, I found InLine script for preloading images without using Canvas scripting (written by Brandon Cernicky -- thank you! and available on http://godzilla.kennedykrieger.org/sw/eprime/samples/) but I am having trouble implementing the InLine with nested lists. So, I have a List of 40 trials within which I have a couple nested lists that contain about 100 images each. I want to randomly pull images from those lists during the trial procedure. The InLine for preloading is placed right at the beginning of the procedure but when it should read the image file names, it reads direction to the nested list (e.g. Target column says [BeachImage])and crashes. How could this be solved? The relevant part of the InLine reads as follows: 'Variable used to store filenames Dim strTargetFile as String 'Retrieve the filename from the Context strTargetFile = c.GetAttrib("BeachImage") 'this is column name in one of the nested lists 'Call the helper routine to load the image 'into the SlideImage component LoadSlideImageFile Targetzero.States(Targetzero.ActiveState), "theTarget", strTargetFile THANK YOU!!!! Evelina -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Jun 27 18:57:59 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: Input object property In-Reply-To: <906fa5d9-171c-4a5f-b09a-98884333b866@j15g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Evelina, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... As I understand it, you want to enter a color as text or numbers during runtime, and then use that color for some text on a Slide. Not sure why you want to do this (there is probably an better way to achieve your ultimate end), but here are my thoughts. First, the MsgBox() function does not work for inputting text, it takes only button responses. For text input you will need to use either InputBox$() or AskBox$() -- see those topics in the E-Basic Help facility. You may then use the input text to set a color. You may use some well-known color names, or RGB values -- I don't know where this is documented, I had to use Find in the E-Basic Help with "color" or "rgb" to find some glancing documentation in topics such as StimDisplay.ForeColor. Anyway, it looks like you may indeed use strings such as "255,255,255" for RGB values. I would pass on the value through an attribute reference. So, sometime before my Slide, I would have inline code such as c.SetAttrib "ForeColor", InputBox$("Enter color:") Then, for the text sub-object on my Slide, I would set its ForeColor property to "[ForeColor]". That would do it (I know, because I just tried this out and it worked). Of course, make sure to set the color attribute at a high enough Context level -- for more on this see Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. Finally are a few general suggestions about using InLines: (1) Work through Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. (2) If you don't already have some computer programming experience, then take a course on Introduction to Computer Programming. (3) Work through the book "VBA for Dummies". -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 6/26/2011 10:43 PM Sunday, you wrote: >Hello, > >I want to be able to input a color in which words on slides are >displayed at the beginning (or middle) of an experiment. I thought of >using the message box but I am not sure how to pass on the input from >the message box to the appropriate level at which the object in >question is stored. > >Also, is it even possible to successfully input and use colors as RGB >values (e.g. 133,123,142)? If not, what would be the best way to be >able to have the flexibility to input desirable RGB values? > >I have limited experience with InLines so I'll be grateful for any >suggestions :) > >Evelina -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From evelina at illinois.edu Tue Jun 28 03:31:29 2011 From: evelina at illinois.edu (Evelina Tapia) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:31:29 -0700 Subject: Input object property In-Reply-To: <4e08d2f9.8c7a2a0a.18cd.50fcSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David, thank you for the reply! InputBox$() works beautifully! I am now trying to figure out how and to what stimulus to assign several different inputs (e.g. green color to first slide on trial 1 and to second slide on trial 2 etc) but I'll work on this puzzle alone -- hopefully successfully :) Evelina On Jun 27, 1:57 pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Evelina, > > Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > it.  3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take... > > As I understand it, you want to enter a color as text or numbers > during runtime, and then use that color for some text on a > Slide.  Not sure why you want to do this (there is probably an better > way to achieve your ultimate end), but here are my thoughts. > > First, the MsgBox() function does not work for inputting text, it > takes only button responses.  For text input you will need to use > either InputBox$() or AskBox$() -- see those topics in the E-Basic > Help facility.  You may then use the input text to set a color.  You > may use some well-known color names, or RGB values -- I don't know > where this is documented, I had to use Find in the E-Basic Help with > "color" or "rgb" to find some glancing documentation in topics such > as StimDisplay.ForeColor.  Anyway, it looks like you may indeed use > strings such as "255,255,255" for RGB values. > > I would pass on the value through an attribute reference.  So, > sometime before my Slide, I would have inline code such as > > c.SetAttrib "ForeColor", InputBox$("Enter color:") > > Then, for the text sub-object on my Slide, I would set its ForeColor > property to "[ForeColor]".  That would do it (I know, because I just > tried this out and it worked).  Of course, make sure to set the color > attribute at a high enough Context level -- for more on this see > Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. > > Finally are a few general suggestions about using InLines: > > (1) Work through Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. > > (2) If you don't already have some computer programming experience, > then take a course on Introduction to Computer Programming. > > (3) Work through the book "VBA for Dummies". > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."  (Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > At 6/26/2011 10:43 PM Sunday, you wrote: > > > > >Hello, > > >I want to be able to input a color in which words on slides are > >displayed at the beginning (or middle) of an experiment. I thought of > >using the message box but I am not sure how to pass on the input from > >the message box to the appropriate level at which the object in > >question is stored. > > >Also, is it even possible to successfully input and use colors as RGB > >values (e.g. 133,123,142)? If not, what would be the best way to be > >able to have the flexibility to input desirable RGB values? > > >I have limited experience with InLines so I'll be grateful for any > >suggestions :) > > >Evelina- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From demiral.007 at googlemail.com Tue Jun 28 06:58:52 2011 From: demiral.007 at googlemail.com (Baris Demiral) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 07:58:52 +0100 Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger Message-ID: Dear E-prime users, In our script, we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech input from SRBOX (with input key defined as "6"). We want to write an inline code (without jump) to make it possible to send a trigger as soon as the speech input is recognized. We do not want to use jump , becasue after this object there are things which should be executed. How do we write an inline script call like "If SRBOX.activated=TRUE, then WritePort.. " kind of description? Also, in our tests, eventhough we increased the sensitivity of the SRBOX for speech input it writes the onset time of the speech as "0", I wonder there is something that we are missing...any suggestions? Thank you for your help in advance, Baris -- SB Demiral, PhD. Department of Psychology 7 George Square The University of Edinburgh Edinburgh, EH8 9JZ UK Phone: +44 (0131) 6503063 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Jun 28 10:56:54 2011 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:56:54 +0100 Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hiya, The great benefit of the SRBOX as an inputdevice in E-Prime is that it is really nicely integrated into E-Prime. As such, of course you *can* try to poll it every once in a while, but the recommended way of dealing with these things is: 1. Given that you have a stimulus, have some textdisplay with inputobject SRBOX. 2. Send the trigger (inline aplenty around this group) as soon as input on voicekey is received, which terminates the object. Something like offset trigger enable? I can't remember from the top of my head. 3. Continue, if you must, the stimulus. I imagine that you want to keep showing the stimulus even though voicekey input has been received so that merely the trigger is send but your (EEG?) data is not disrupted by offsets of stimuli, correct? In that case, I tend to find it easiest just to do either one of two things: - Have a 'hidden' object which has a long time limit (but 0 ms shown), which terminates if voicekey input has been received (so just add the SRBOX as input device there). - Show a stimulus that looks exactly like the stimulus to which people respond *after* that one. I.e., just a copy, with length desired-stimulus-length minus duration of preceding stimulus. That way, you can do all sorts of stuff in between presentation and the participant should never notice. Finally, a word of caution: always see if you can get the voicekey/srbox to work in the simplest of setups: just one display with infinite duration, terminates only with SRBOX button input. If that doesn't work, the SRBOX is probably incorrectly configured. If it does, continue with voicekey input. If that immediately, as you say, triggers the voicekey, see if the sensitivity is correct. Only after doing all this, I would continue making the real experiment. Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Baris Demiral Sent: 28 June 2011 07:59 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger Dear E-prime users, In our script, we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech input from SRBOX (with input key defined as "6"). We want to write an inline code (without jump) to make it possible to send a trigger as soon as the speech input is recognized. We do not want to use jump , becasue after this object there are things which should be executed. How do we write an inline script call like "If SRBOX.activated=TRUE, then WritePort.. " kind of description? Also, in our tests, eventhough we increased the sensitivity of the SRBOX for speech input it writes the onset time of the speech as "0", I wonder there is something that we are missing...any suggestions? Thank you for your help in advance, Baris -- SB Demiral, PhD. Department of Psychology 7 George Square The University of Edinburgh Edinburgh, EH8 9JZ UK Phone: +44 (0131) 6503063 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 28 15:51:00 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:51:00 -0400 Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Baris, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... You have three issues mixed together here: 1) Sending a signal to external equipment following a response. 2) Using the SRBox for a response. 3) Using the SRBox as a voicekey. I like to think that you have sorted 2 & 3; if not, first heed Mich's advice to start small and work up from there. OTOH I am puzzled by your statement that "it writes the onset time of the speech as '0'". That makes no sense. Onset times are in ms from the start of the session, so it is completely impossible to get onset times of 0. Perhaps you meant something else? But on to issue 1. By "we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech input from SRBOX" do you mean that your stimulus object (let's call it StimSlide) has a Duration of (infinite) and End Action Terminate (i.e., a self-paced stimulus terminated only by voice response)? And you want to send the same signal to your external device whenever the subject responds? If so, you might use the OnsetSignal... and OffsetSignal... properties. I would set this up using inline code at the start of the program, something like Const Lpt1Port as Integer = &h0378 ' adjust to match your system Const RespSignal as Integer = &hFF ' adjust for your signal StimSlide.OnsetSignalPort = Lpt1Port StimSlide.OnsetSignalData = 0 ' reset output at start of stimulus StimSlide.OnsetSignalEnabled = True StimSlide.OffsetSignalPort = Lpt1Port StimSlide.OffsetSignalData = RespSignal StimSlide.OffsetSignalEnabled = True You can learn more about these properties by looking up the appropriate topics in the E-Basic Help facility. StimSlide will now send the RespSignal at its offset, which happens as soon as it gets a response. Note that I set OnsetSignalData to 0 -- RespSignal stays on the output port until something else replaces it, here I use the OnsetSignal to reset the port, you could also use other means. But suppose your stimulus has a time limit, so that it might terminate without a response, and you want a signal only in the case of a response. In that case you might skip all the Onset/OffsetSignal... stuff above, and do something like the following in inline code right after your stimulus: Const Lpt1Port as Integer = &h0378 ' adjust to match your system Const RespSignal as Integer = &hFF ' adjust for your signal Const SignalDur as Long = 10 If (StimSlide.RT > 0) Then WritePort Lpt1Port, RespSignal Sleep SignalDur WritePort Lpt1Port, 0 ' reset output End If (This uses .RT to detect a response, for other options see my comments at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/5e712b8b726ea0de/798ed4c44b6c44e3 .) For more discussion on this, and a solution to a more complex scenario (sending signal at time of response while letting the stimulus continue its Duration), see threads at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/abec5564c65de738 and http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd (which you could have found by doing a search using terms like "OnsetSignal"). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >Dear E-prime users, > >In our script, we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech >input from SRBOX (with input key defined as "6"). We want to write >an inline code (without jump) to make it possible to send a trigger >as soon as the speech input is recognized. We do not want to use >jump , becasue after this object there are things which should be >executed. How do we write an inline script call like "If >SRBOX.activated=TRUE, then WritePort.. " kind of description? > >Also, in our tests, eventhough we increased the sensitivity of the >SRBOX for speech input it writes the onset time of the speech as >"0", I wonder there is something that we are missing...any suggestions? > >Thank you for your help in advance, >Baris > >-- >SB Demiral, PhD. >Department of Psychology >7 George Square >The University of Edinburgh >Edinburgh, EH8 9JZ >UK >Phone: +44 (0131) 6503063 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 28 16:15:45 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:15:45 -0400 Subject: sending trigger to other devices locked on to the time of response In-Reply-To: <4c7ff663.8b19e70a.0de6.788bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Gosh, looking over this old thread, I see that I overinterpreted the question and answered one more complex than the question asked. I addressed the question of how to send an output signal following a response that did *not* terminate the stimulus (i.e., End Action = (none), so stimulus finishes its Duration after the response). More likely the questioner had a simpler case in mind, i.e., a self-paced stimulus where the response terminates the stimulus, and then E-Prime sends an output signal. For that simpler case, please see discussion at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ef0e5a8d8b87aa0c . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 9/2/2010 03:08 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Good timing -- It just so happens that I have been working on this >very issue for a lab here. You have to make the proper settings in >your stimulus, and use a bit of inline code following the >stimulus. Here is the fully-commented inline code for my solution: > > >'/---------------------------------------------------------------------- >' We wish to present a stimulus (in this case, StimText), get a >' response during that stimlus, and raise a signal as soon as the >' subject responds. >' >' To do that, we need to run this inline code during StimText. We >' could simply set the Duration of StimText to 0 or so (depending on >' considerations such as leaving some time between stimulus .OnsetSignal >' and .OffsetSignal) and then our code would have to also handle >' further stimulus timing. But with judicious use of Duration and >' PreRelease, E-Prime will automatically take care of stimulus timing >' for us. >' >' So instead we simply set the Duration of StimText as desired (which >' as a result automatically determines the target onset time for the >' next stimulus object), and we set the PreRelease of StimText to a >' suitably large value (preferably >= Duration, but perhaps less due >' to other considerations as mentioned earlier). Now this code will >' start to run soon after the onset of StimText, and handle the >' reaction to the subject response. >' >' Finally, this code simply makes use of .IsPending() to detect the >' response (see the InputMask.IsPending topic in the online E-Basic >' Help). Note that as a result StimText will last at least as long >' its input mask Time Limit, regardless of its Duration (if you just >' keep Time Limit at the default of "(same as duration)" then this >' will not pose a problem). > >Const LptDataPort as Integer = &H0378 ' adjust this for your system >Const SignalData as Integer = &HFF ' adjust this for your device >Const LoopDelay as Long = 2 'ms; set as small as possible for your > ' system > >Do While StimText.InputMasks.IsPending() > ' Some slower machines (such as my home laptop) need a delay so that > ' EP can detect & handle input: > Sleep LoopDelay >Loop >WritePort LptDataPort, SignalData >'\---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >This is fine as long as you limit the response to coming during the >stimulus. If you want to present a train of stimuli during the >response period then you must do a little more. I also have a >solution for that, but it is rather intricate and too much trouble >to go into here, so I hope this is good enough for now. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >At 9/1/2010 02:38 AM Wednesday, Jaeyong Lee wrote: >>I was wondering if there is a way to send trigger signals locked on >>the response time. >> >>For instance, >> >>Stim.OnsetSignalEnabled = True >>Stim.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 >>Stim.OnsetSignalData = 1 >> >> >>WritePort &h378, 0 >> >>the above code send triggers at the onset of the object "Stim". >> >>However, I am trying to figure out a way to send triggers at the time >>of response of "Stim". >> >>I would greatly appreciate all tips and advices from you. Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ahafri at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 20:46:51 2011 From: ahafri at gmail.com (Alon Hafri) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:46:51 -0700 Subject: eye tracking reading study Message-ID: Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 words. I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by a script. I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they could act as their own AOIs. Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly spaced. 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the text would be in one object so would appear normal. 3) Suggestions? Thanks! Alon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Jun 29 09:10:40 2011 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:10:40 +0100 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Here's my take: - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. Best, Mich * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 To: E-Prime Subject: eye tracking reading study Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 words. I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by a script. I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they could act as their own AOIs. Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly spaced. 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the text would be in one object so would appear normal. 3) Suggestions? Thanks! Alon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ahafri at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 14:47:24 2011 From: ahafri at gmail.com (Alon Hafri) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:47:24 -0700 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92F7ACB5AF2@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Thanks for your solutions! I'll respond to yours in order, below your text: On Jun 29, 5:10 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Here's my take: > - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. > Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. > This would definitely work (the font is called Courier New). But I do see your point below about wanting the AOIs to be a bit larger so things are accurately detected, and it may be hard to do that with a lot of words on screen. > - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. > Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly appreciate it. > - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: > 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway > 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway > 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. > Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an example of this? > - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. > Yes this I've done before (even for E-Prime experiments, when the AOIs were adjusted after running subjects) -- could work well. Again thanks for your help. > Best, > Mich > > * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: eye tracking reading study > > Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. > > I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for > Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I > would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 > words. > > I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image > position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with > using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as > AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will > vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and > on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for > every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by > a script. > > I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? > 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they > could act as their own AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it > could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly > spaced. > > 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have > transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the > text would be in one object so would appear normal. > > 3) Suggestions? > > Thanks! > Alon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Jun 29 16:49:12 2011 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:49:12 +0100 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Alon & List, Turns out I later decided to do no online eye-tracking at all, but in an old version, I still have the following bit of code: --------- Set theGazeData = CTobiiEyeTrackerResponseData( TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count) ) If Not theGazeData Is Nothing Then CurEye.x = theGazeData.CursorX CurEye.y = theGazeData.CursorY if c.GetAttrib("ShowEye") = "Yes" then donow = TekenCirkel (CurEye.X, CurEye.Y, c.GetAttrib ("BallSize")/2, "green") Set theGazeData = Nothing End If ---------- Which, if you have been through the Tobii code, you might notice is roughly based on the capture AOI code of an example of theirs. If you, or anyone else, goes through my code (I don't know whether the list now accepts attachments or not), notice how *AWFUL* my own code tends to be :). Embarrassing! Anyway, it does the trick. In 1g, attached, it takes the last bit of (i.e. TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count)), which contains CursorX and CursorY. If you want to drive a participant absolutely mad, do what I do above and show a little dot at the position of the (captured) fixation-position. It's always a bit off, so you will follow it and thus drive it away - a bit like having a speckle of dust in your eye. Re: attached files, notice 1g is the older version, 1i is the later one; and they probably only work if you have the Tobii installed, and have a similar system as ours. As to your questions: "Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly appreciate it." Sadly, it's a bit more difficult than Fix.Position - as above. But it can be done. The advantage, for instance, is that you could calculate the centre of words and figure out the distance between word-centre and gaze-position, which should be more accurate than using square AOIs. It's also plain cool, because it allows you to debug like my version above, using a dot on the screen :) It is, all in all, pretty good to figure out once, even if you later decide to abandon it. " Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an example of this?" No, I meant, if you have 3 conditions (for 1,2 or 3 words), then show one state depending on the condition. Or am I missing something and you want to use successive presentation of words? Anyway, I gather that a lot of people plainly do not see that slides can have states, in fact, I never did anything with them either until some point. It can, however, provide a lot of clarity, as it can keep your experiment relatively free from code. So, make three states with names OneWord, TwoWords, ThreeWords (this can be changed in the properties panel, for instance - not very clearly visible). In the slide's (i.e. not in the state's) property, set ActiveState to "[HowManyWords]" and in the list, have an attribute of HowManyWords, with again, the three names of states. Hope that helps! Best, Mich Michiel Spapé Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri Sent: 29 June 2011 15:47 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: eye tracking reading study Hi Mich, Thanks for your solutions! I'll respond to yours in order, below your text: On Jun 29, 5:10 am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Here's my take: > - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. > Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. > This would definitely work (the font is called Courier New). But I do see your point below about wanting the AOIs to be a bit larger so things are accurately detected, and it may be hard to do that with a lot of words on screen. > - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. > Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly appreciate it. > - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: > 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway > 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway > 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. > Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an example of this? > - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. > Yes this I've done before (even for E-Prime experiments, when the AOIs were adjusted after running subjects) -- could work well. Again thanks for your help. > Best, > Mich > > * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: eye tracking reading study > > Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. > > I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for > Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I > would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 > words. > > I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image > position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with > using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as > AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will > vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and > on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for > every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by > a script. > > I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? > 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they > could act as their own AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it > could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly > spaced. > > 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have > transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the > text would be in one object so would appear normal. > > 3) Suggestions? > > Thanks! > Alon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Collision 1i.es Type: application/octet-stream Size: 248790 bytes Desc: Collision 1i.es URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Collision 1g.es Type: application/octet-stream Size: 239056 bytes Desc: Collision 1g.es URL: From j.browndyke at duke.edu Thu Jun 30 14:02:38 2011 From: j.browndyke at duke.edu (Jeffrey Browndyke) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:02:38 -0400 Subject: Jeff Browndyke is out of the office for the holidays. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting Wed 06/29/2011 and will not return until Tue 07/05/2011. I will respond to your message when I return. Will catch email remotely when I can, but I will be generally unable to respond until after 7/5. Happy 4th of July! Regards, Jeff Browndyke -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From janet.trammell at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 18:18:23 2011 From: janet.trammell at gmail.com (Janet Trammell) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:18:23 -0700 Subject: base timing of a trial on total time taken in previous trials--mismatch error? Message-ID: I am programming an experiment where the total time a person can take is 10 minutes (600000 ms) (to do 12 trials), with a maximum of 2 minutes per trial (the trial terminates and starts the next trial after 2 minutes). I have set the program to terminate the list if the total time is over 10 minutes, however there is a problem--say a person has taken 9:45 do to 7 trials, so they have 15 seconds left. BUT...on trial 8, the duration is still set to max 2 min--so a person can theoretically have a total of 11:45, not 10:00 before it terminates. So I need to have the program know that if more than 8 minutes (480000) has been used, the duration of the trial should be 600000-however much time has been used so far. I have tried to fix this by putting an attribute in the list object called "trial" which is just the number of the trial, and another attribute called "trialtime", which will be the duration of the slide object (where the stimulus/trial is presented). in the slide object properties, I have set timelimit to be the attribute "trialtime". Lastly, after each trial, the attribute "timertrial" is calculated, which essentially calculates the length of time taken for that trial and adds it to the previous time taken, so that this attribute is constantly updated to reflect the total time taken. All of this seems to work fine, and running through the program shows that "timertrial" is indeed calculating correctly and is recording in the edata file. the problem occurs, however, when I put all this together, and try to change the duration of the next trial based on the "timertrial" attribute. Here is my code: Using the inline statement below, I have set the first trial duration is 120 seconds, and every other trial after that the duration is calculated based on total time taken so far If c.GetAttrib ("trial") = 1 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", 120000 If c.GetAttrib ("trial") > 1 then If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", 600000 - c.getAttrib ("timertrial") If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", 120000 End If The problem is, the program cannot find the attribute "timertrial"--it calculates fine at the end of each trial, but when I start a new trial (within the same list), it does not have a value yet for timertrial, since that is calculated at the END of the trial. How do I get it to pull the value of "timertrial" from the previous trial and use it as an attribute in the NEXT trial? I am sure this is simple, but I can't seem to get anywhere. Also, Note: I have tried using this code instead: If c.GetAttrib ("Trial") > 1 then if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", 600000 - LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", 120000 End If And I keep getting type mismatch errors, which should be easy to resolve, but this one keep stumping me. Again, I'm sure this is something simple, but for some reason I can't get it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ahafri at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 21:08:02 2011 From: ahafri at gmail.com (Alon Hafri) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:08:02 -0700 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92F7ACB5C05@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Thanks for the reply and the scripts! It looks quite complex so it will take me a while to get through it all, but I did look over some of the InLine and took a practice run. I am afraid I still don't quite see the advantage of calculating the hits and misses using the word center and distance versus hittest and AOIs as defined by the text or image rectangle. I'm not sure how the word center/distance method would work since for example the distance from the center of the word "deli" will be different from the center of the word "delicious" horizontally but not vertically. Is the calculation routine for using the word center/distance something more complex than the distance formula? With rectangular AOIs and hittest, you could size the AOI with enough buffer space around the text that it will catch looks near to the word. Perhaps I'm missing something? Thanks for the code detailing displaying the eyegaze in real time, that is very useful! I also didn't know much about Slides but I like your idea for using them to implement different conditions with minimal code. Best, Alon On Jun 29, 12:49 pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Alon & List, > Turns out I later decided to do no online eye-tracking at all, but in an old version, I still have the following bit of code: > --------- > Set theGazeData = CTobiiEyeTrackerResponseData( TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count)  ) > If Not theGazeData Is Nothing Then >         CurEye.x = theGazeData.CursorX >         CurEye.y = theGazeData.CursorY >         if c.GetAttrib("ShowEye") = "Yes" then donow = TekenCirkel (CurEye.X, CurEye.Y, c.GetAttrib ("BallSize")/2, "green") >         Set theGazeData = Nothing > End If > ---------- > > Which, if you have been through the Tobii code, you might notice is roughly based on the capture AOI code of an example of theirs. If you, or anyone else, goes through my code (I don't know whether the list now accepts attachments or not), notice how *AWFUL* my own code tends to be :). Embarrassing! > > Anyway, it does the trick. In 1g, attached, it takes the last bit of (i.e. TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count)), which contains CursorX and CursorY. If you want to drive a participant absolutely mad, do what I do above and show a little dot at the position of the (captured) fixation-position. It's always a bit off, so you will follow it and thus drive it away - a bit like having a speckle of dust in your eye. Re: attached files, notice 1g is the older version, 1i is the later one; and they probably only work if you have the Tobii installed, and have a similar system as ours. > > As to your questions: > > "Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over > solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the > calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could > call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it > just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly > appreciate it." > > Sadly, it's a bit more difficult than Fix.Position - as above. But it can be done. The advantage, for instance, is that you could calculate the centre of words and figure out the distance between word-centre and gaze-position, which should be more accurate than using square AOIs. It's also plain cool, because it allows you to debug like my version above, using a dot on the screen :) It is, all in all, pretty good to figure out once, even if you later decide to abandon it. > > " Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the > first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the > second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used > more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an > example of this?" > > No, I meant, if you have 3 conditions (for 1,2 or 3 words), then show one state depending on the condition. Or am I missing something and you want to use successive presentation of words? > Anyway, I gather that a lot of people plainly do not see that slides can have states, in fact, I never did anything with them either until some point. It can, however, provide a lot of clarity, as it can keep your experiment relatively free from code. So, make three states with names OneWord, TwoWords, ThreeWords (this can be changed in the properties panel, for instance - not very clearly visible). In the slide's (i.e. not in the state's) property, set ActiveState to "[HowManyWords]" and in the list, have an attribute of HowManyWords, with again, the three names of states. > > Hope that helps! > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spapé > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > Sent: 29 June 2011 15:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: eye tracking reading study > > Hi Mich, > > Thanks for your solutions! I'll respond to yours in order, below your > text: > > On Jun 29, 5:10 am, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Hi, > > Here's my take: > > - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. > > Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. > > This would definitely work (the font is called Courier New). But I do > see your point below about wanting the AOIs to be a bit larger so > things are accurately detected, and it may be hard to do that with a > lot of words on screen. > > > - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. > > Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over > solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the > calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could > call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it > just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly > appreciate it. > > > - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: > > 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway > > 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway > > 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. > > Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the > first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the > second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used > more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an > example of this? > > > - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. > > Yes this I've done before (even for E-Prime experiments, when the AOIs > were adjusted after running subjects) -- could work well. Again thanks > for your help. > > > Best, > > Mich > > > * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. > > > Michiel Spapé > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > > Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: eye tracking reading study > > > Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. > > > I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for > > Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I > > would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 > > words. > > > I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image > > position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with > > using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as > > AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will > > vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and > > on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for > > every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by > > a script. > > > I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? > > 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they > > could act as their own AOIs. > > Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it > > could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly > > spaced. > > > 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have > > transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. > > Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the > > text would be in one object so would appear normal. > > > 3) Suggestions? > > > Thanks! > > Alon > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not > > ... > > read more » > >  Collision 1i.es > 328KViewDownload > >  Collision 1g.es > 315KViewDownload -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Jun 30 21:26:58 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:26:58 -0400 Subject: base timing of a trial on total time taken in previous trials--mismatch error? In-Reply-To: <1b3108f8-cb3e-4d0d-96a1-42e686c7a955@a15g2000pri.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: This got addressed on the PST Forum (http://www.pstnet.com/forum/Topic5419-7-1.aspx ), but you did well to post here as well -- generally I respond only here on the E-Prime Group, and now I can post a few more details and provide code with proper indentation. First, as you might find explained in Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime, and have instead discovered the hard way, attributes propogate only downward through logging levels, they do not persist as you pop back up to higher levels, and as a result they do not persist as you pop up a level and then back down to the same level, as happens at the end of a Procedure run by a List. IOW, despite some appearance, "attributes" are *not* "variables", and they will not fulfill the role of variables. Variables and attributes each have their own roles. So, as explained on the Forum, in short you need to use a global variable. As explained in Chapter 4 of the User's Guide, you do that in the User tab of the Script view. Define a variable such as TRemaining, e.g., Dim TRemaining as Long Then use that global variable to keep track of the value from trial to trial, as in ... well, when I tried to write out the code it didn't seem quite right, and I have to run off and catch a bus now. Maybe you or someone else can now sort this out based on the clues given so far. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 6/30/2011 02:18 PM Thursday, you wrote: >I am programming an experiment where the total time a person can take >is 10 minutes (600000 ms) (to do 12 trials), with a maximum of 2 >minutes per trial (the trial terminates and starts the next trial >after 2 minutes). I have set the program to terminate the list if the >total time is over 10 minutes, however there is a problem--say a >person has taken 9:45 do to 7 trials, so they have 15 seconds left. >BUT...on trial 8, the duration is still set to max 2 min--so a person >can theoretically have a total of 11:45, not 10:00 before it >terminates. So I need to have the program know that if more than 8 >minutes (480000) has been used, the duration of the trial should be >600000-however much time has been used so far. > >I have tried to fix this by putting an attribute in the list object >called "trial" which is just the number of the trial, and another >attribute called "trialtime", which will be the duration of the slide >object (where the stimulus/trial is presented). in the slide object >properties, I have set timelimit to be the attribute "trialtime". >Lastly, after each trial, the attribute "timertrial" is calculated, >which essentially calculates the length of time taken for that trial >and adds it to the previous time taken, so that this attribute is >constantly updated to reflect the total time taken. All of this seems >to work fine, and running through the program shows that "timertrial" >is indeed calculating correctly and is recording in the edata file. >the problem occurs, however, when I put all this together, and try to >change the duration of the next trial based on the "timertrial" >attribute. Here is my code: > >Using the inline statement below, I have set the first trial duration >is 120 seconds, and every other trial after that the duration is >calculated based on total time taken so far > >If c.GetAttrib ("trial") = 1 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", 120000 >If c.GetAttrib ("trial") > 1 then >If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", >600000 - c.getAttrib ("timertrial") >If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", >120000 >End If > >The problem is, the program cannot find the attribute "timertrial"--it >calculates fine at the end of each trial, but when I start a new trial >(within the same list), it does not have a value yet for timertrial, >since that is calculated at the END of the trial. How do I get it to >pull the value of "timertrial" from the previous trial and use it as >an attribute in the NEXT trial? I am sure this is simple, but I can't >seem to get anywhere. > >Also, Note: I have tried using this code instead: >If c.GetAttrib ("Trial") > 1 then >if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then >c.setAttrib "trialtime", 600000 - LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib >("timertrial") >if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then >c.setAttrib "trialtime", 120000 >End If > >And I keep getting type mismatch errors, which should be easy to >resolve, but this one keep stumping me. Again, I'm sure this is >something simple, but for some reason I can't get it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From njvack at wisc.edu Wed Jun 1 02:37:07 2011 From: njvack at wisc.edu (Nate Vack) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 21:37:07 -0500 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Paul Groot wrote: > PS. I'm not sure if reaction time is critical in you study, but keep > in mind that most displays draw the image from top to bottom. This can > take upto 10-20ms, so be careful when comparing RT's between > top-bottom conditions. LCD monitors do not do this; they generally blit to all pixels essentially simultaneously. Cheers, -Nate -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From a.assfalg at googlemail.com Wed Jun 1 06:09:55 2011 From: a.assfalg at googlemail.com (Alexander) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:09:55 -0700 Subject: multiple mouse reactions in one trial In-Reply-To: <4dde7a93.83ad2a0a.1613.6830SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hello together, I wanted to thank again for the helpful solutions!! Greetings Alexander On 26 Mai, 18:06, David McFarlane wrote: > Alexander, > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) > PST's trained staff takes any and all questions > athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp > , and they strive to respond to all requests in > 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their > substitute for proper documentation, so make full > use of it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST > Web Support, please extend the courtesy of > posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > (And to Mich, hat's off for saying what I so often say.) > > That said, here is my take... > > As liw hinted, you could collect multiple mouse > clicks for a single stimulus & input mask by > making use of the InputMask.Responses property in > inline code -- see that topic in the E-Basic Help > facility, and the MultipleResponseCollection.es > example in the PST Web Downloads area. ?But to > get the stimulus to change upon each response > would take more work. ?I think liw's approach > using multiple objects may be easier to for a > begginner, but if you don't mind diving in to a > bunch of code then an alternative (and not > necessarily better) approach would be to use the > InputMask.Responses property along with the .Draw > method of each of the various sub-objects on your > stimulus Slide. ?The VAS example from PST shows > how to do something like this (note that their > VAS example is *not* a VAS, it is a Likert > scale!). ?(And if you do resort to the PST > examples, take them as only a starting point for > coding ideas -- they have the virtue of providing > actual working code, but beyond that the code is > not a good model of good programming practices.) > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take > precedence over public relations, for nature > cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > At 5/26/2011 06:21 AM Thursday, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > > >hmmmz despite Michiels more educationally responsible answer I tried > >to conjure something up for you. > > >I believe it's possible to record multiple responses during one show > >of a slide... but you can't alter the slide while it's being shown. > >You do want to change it (i.e. you want the clicked number to > >disappear) so therefore you'll have to change the slide after each > >response is given and then show it again. > > >One could use different slidestates to show 'the same slide' with > >different appearances (i.e. a different number of text boxes) but.. > >you'd need 24 slidestates (4*3*2*1) while if I remember correctly, > >only 12 are allowed, so that's not really an option. > > >What is? > > >Use a slide with four textboxes... each textbox will contain one > >number, store the numbers in four attributes in a list (n1, n2, n3 or > >whatever you like) and tell the four textboxes to find their 'text' > >from these attributes by entering [n1], [n2], etc in the text fields. > >By default the textboxes will be named text1, text2, text3 etc, which > >is fine, ?you could change their names, doesn't really matter. Enable > >the mouse on the slide and set the end action to terminate, log the > >response time. > > >On your trial procedure, directly after the slide place an inline > >containing this code: > > >******* > >If responsecount = 0 then c.setattrib "slidestarttime", > >SLIDENAME.OnsetTime > > >'tell the program which slide we are talking about > > ? ? ? ? Set theState = SLIDENAME.States("Default") > > >'Was there a response? > > ? ? ? ? If SLIDENAME.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then > > >'Get the mouse response > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Set theMouseResponseData = > >CMouseResponseData(SLIDENAME.InputMasks.Responses(1)) > > >'Determine string name of SlideImage or SlideText object at > >'mouse click coordinates. Assign that value to strHit > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? strHit = > >theState.HitTest(theMouseResponseData.CursorX, > >theMouseResponseData.CursorY) > > >'if strHit remains empty, i.e. the mouseclick was not made on one of > >the textboxes, then go back and show the slide again > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if strHit = "" then goto backlabel > > >'keep a count of the number of responses given so far > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Responsecount = responsecount +1 > > >'log the name of the textbox that was clicked under response1, > >response2, response3 etc, dependent on the value of responsecount > >'log the responsetime for this response under response1.rt, > >response2.rt, etc, also dependent on the value of responsecount. > >Calculate the responsetime by subtracting the > >'onsettime of the first showing of the slide (stored under > >slidestarttime) from the timestamp of the new response > >(SLIDENAME.RTTime). > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?c.SetAttrib "response"& responsecount, strHit > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?c.SetAttrib ?response?& responsecount &?.rt?, SLIDENAME.RTTime > >- c.getattrib ("slidestarttime") > > >'change the text of the textbox was clicked to nothing: "" > > >CSlideText(SLIDENAME.States(Slide1.ActiveState).Objects(strHit)).text=?? > > >'if less than 4 response have been given, go back to show the slide > >again > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if responsecount <4 then goto backlabel > > > ? ? ? ? ?End If > > >'reset the response counter for the next trial > >Responsecount = 0 > >************ > > >replace every instance of SLIDENAME with the actual name of your > >slide. The variable responsecount should be created by writing the > >line "dim responsecount as integer" (no "'s) on the user tab of the > >script window. Place a label on the procedure right before your slide, > >call it backlabel. This is a kind of 'marker', at the end of the code > >the program will return to that 'place in the procedure' when it > >encounter the line containing 'goto backlabel'. > > >So basically what it does is the following: it determines the name of > >the textsubobject that was clicked on and stored this name under > >'strHit'. If there is no value stored in strHit then the click was > >made outside of the textbox areas and the program goes back to show > >the slide again in it's current state. If that is not the case then > >strHit is stored as the given response and so is the response time. > >After that it replaces the text of the subjectobject with the name > >that is stored under strHit (i.e. the box that was clicked on) with "" > >which is... nothing. This way the clicked number will (hopefully :p) > >disappear. It then goes back to backlabel and shows the slide again, > >rinse and repeat until 4 responses have been given. > > >I haven't tested this code, it might be full of minor and/or major > >errors.. but something like this should, generally speaking, work... > >you could just give it a try ;) > > >especially this line might be problematic: c.SetAttrib ?response?& > >responsecount &?.rt?, SLIDENAME.RTTime - c.getattrib > >("slidestarttime") . ?If so then break it down into one line for the > >calulations (create variable called erm... responsetime, then use a > >line: responsetime = SLIDENAME.RTTime - c.getattrib ("slidestarttime") > >followed by a separate line to log this value: c.SetAttrib "reponse"& > >responsecount &".rt", responsetime . > > >Please le me know whether that works :) > > >Best, > > >liw > > >On May 26, 11:02 am, Michiel Spape > >wrote: > > > Hiya, > > > The easy way would be to pay someone to code it for you! > > > > But, for anyone to help: > > > - What is "little experience"? Have you read > > the entire getting started guide and/or additional material (linked before)? > > > - Where do you get stuck? > > > Best, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alexander > > > Sent: 26 May 2011 07:36 > > > To: E-Prime > > > Subject: multiple mouse reactions in one trial > > > > Hi all, > > > > I have little experience with eprime. > > > I want to do an experiment in which four digits are presented > > > simultaneous on the screen. These should be selected in ascending > > > order with the mouse. For every mouse click the reaction time and the > > > clicked off digit should be recorded. The digit already been selected > > > should be hidden. The next trial with new digits should start only > > > when all four digits have been clicked. > > > For notes on how I can solve this in an easily way, I would be more > > > than grateful. > > > > Best regards > > > Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From krupa.d.sheth at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 10:33:36 2011 From: krupa.d.sheth at gmail.com (Krupa Sheth) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 03:33:36 -0700 Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! We are also using this experiment to assess for inhibition in children with neurodevelopmental disorders (we used the anti-saccade task). Therefore by randomising the fixation duration it allows a) to ensure that their gaze is constantly at the centre of the screen ensuring that study participants are motivated and attentive throughout the testing session and more importantly b) prevents participants from utilizing any anticipatory strategies while executing the task. Hope this answers your question. -- Best Wishes, Krupa Sheth Research Associate Cerebra Centre of Neurodevelopmental Disorders University of Birmingham Edgbaston B15 2TT On May 31, 5:46?pm, liwenna wrote: > Glad you got it to work, but if you don't mind me asking: why would > you want your fixation cross to have a random duration? > > I've seen people ask for this before, but as far as I can see it makes > no sense at all. > > The fixation cross serves the purpose of fixating the gaze and warning > that the new trial is too start. It exerts it's attention capturing > 'quality' only at it's onset and should therefore appear always about > 500 ms prior to the start of the trial, instead of having a random > duration. Especially with a fixation cross as long as 3500 changes are > pretty high that your participant's gaze has wandered elsewhere after > 3500 ms when the trial starts, in which case the fixation cross > achieved the exact opposite from what it is intended to do. The cross > intends to indicate the start of the trial to the pp and therefore it > should be predictable in it's duration. > > You do want to have a random duration inter trial interval in order to > avoid automation of the timing of the motor response over trials, but > rather use a separate blank slide (inter trial interval slide) with > it's duration set to random in between the response slide and the next > fixation cross (i,e, either at the total end or right at the start of > the trial procedure), instead of randomizing the duration of the > cross. > > best, > > liw > > On May 31, 6:18?pm, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hiya, > > There's indeed nothing wrong with the code, but yes, it's more elegant to do David's suggestion, because you're at least sure it's also logged. There is also good reason to do the nested list with Duration, because you're never quite sure whether "random" isn't too random for your purposes. Suppose, for instance, that you constantly show each and every subject really short fixations? That will make an utter mess of your jittering purposes! It's unlikely, but still possible nonetheless - the joy of randomising with replacement. So, indeed, if you have a nice nested list with every random value (you can safely skip a few, because of screen refresh rates), you can be safe in the knowledge that at least you're sure no value is used twice (depending on the length of the list and the number of trials, of course). > > > Best, > > Mich > > > Michiel Spap? > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > Michiel Spap? > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > > Sent: 31 May 2011 15:57 > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > Subject: RE: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) > > PST's trained staff takes any and all questions > > athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp > > , and they strive to respond to all requests in > > 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their > > substitute for proper documentation, so make full > > use of it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST > > Web Support, please extend the courtesy of > > posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > That said, here is my take... > > > First, I agree that you would do well to work > > through Mich's E-Primer, as well as the Getting > > Started and User's Guides that came with E-Prime. > > > Now, the inline code method allows you to easily > > randomize down to the ms, and without using > > attribute references. ?OTOH, the lack of an > > attribute reference means that the data log > > contains no record of the randomized fixation > > duration. ?So I would modify Mich's example as follows: > > > c.SetAttrib "FixDur", Random(1500,3500) > > > Then, in my fixation object, I would set Duration to "[FixDur]". ?Done. > > > But if you don't mind (or even prefer) a coarser > > grain (say, 1500 - 3500 ms in steps of 100 ms) > > then you can accomplish this without any inline > > code. ?Just use a List, or perhaps a nested List, > > to hold all the possible fixation durations, and > > set the List Selection to Random. ?Suppose we > > call that attribute (i.e., column) > > "FixDur". ?Then, as before, in your fixation > > object set Duration to "[FixDur]". ?Done. ?(For > > more on nested Lists in particular, see Appendix > > C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime.) > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > At 5/31/2011 10:26 AM Tuesday, Michiel Spape wrote: > > >It's actually somewhere in the E-Primer: > > >http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf > > > ?as an example of what to do with line-in > > >stuff... I suggest going through the last 2 chapters, or earlier. > > >But, then again, if you have a textdisplay > > >showing just a +, called FixationDisplay, and a > > >short inline before that: > > >FixationDisplay.Duration = Random(1500,3500) - you're done. > > >Best, > > >Mich > > > >Michiel Spap? > > >Research Fellow > > >Perception & Action group > > >University of Nottingham > > >School of Psychology > > >www.cognitology.eu > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krupa Sheth > > >Sent: 31 May 2011 14:34 > > >To: E-Prime > > >Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > >Hi! I been totally baffled by this and I am sure there is a way where > > >to over come this. > > > >Is there any function in E-Prime that allows the fixation point ("+") > > >to appear for a random duration between 1500ms to 3500ms. I am sure it > > >is possible but am so clueless how to do it. > > > >Many Thanks!! > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pfc.groot at gmail.com Wed Jun 1 21:42:50 2011 From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 23:42:50 +0200 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Nate, I really don't think that is true. Flat screens have the same kind of serial refresh mechanism for updating pixels. It's easy to check with a photo-sensor and oscilloscope. Or if you don't have access to that: just switch of the onset synchronization in a rapid alternating black-white sequence: trial sequence with 3 empty text objects (A,B,C): A=duration=100ms, prerelease=100, background=black, onset synced B=duration=[S]ms, prerelease=[S], background=white, onset NOT synced C=duration=0ms, prerelease=0,background=black,onset synced Just run those trials in a trial list (N=20) and try values for [S] which are smaller than the refresh interval. You can also put the trial list in a block list with sequential range for the S attribute. You will see the same kind of horizontal distortions as with CRT monitors, caused by fragmented screen updates. That would not be possible with a fast bit-blitting pipeline. I've even seen this on a very convincing high-speed movie (@1000Hz) that demonstrated the serial update for both CRT and TFT displays. The real difference between CRT and flat screens is that pixel the intensity curves are really different. CRTs have a very short (but intense) peak, while flat screens have a very constant intensity. (That's why CRT's flicker at low refresh rates and LCDs do not.) Best Paul -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: flickertest.es2 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 90778 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Jun 2 16:12:27 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:12:27 -0400 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 6/1/2011 05:42 PM Wednesday, Paul Groot wrote: >The real difference between CRT and flat screens is that pixel the >intensity curves are really different. CRTs have a very short (but >intense) peak, while flat screens have a very constant intensity. >(That's why CRT's flicker at low refresh rates and LCDs do not.) Haven't measured this lately, but another difference we found a few years ago was that LCD pixels have a very long (> 100 ms) and biphasic offset. That could pose a problem for some sensitive studies. We have had to stockpile a bunch of CRTs for just this reason, nobody sells new ones anymore. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From njvack at wisc.edu Thu Jun 2 19:27:40 2011 From: njvack at wisc.edu (Nate Vack) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 14:27:40 -0500 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Paul Groot wrote: > Hi Nate, > > I really don't think that is true. Flat screens have the same kind of > serial refresh mechanism for updating pixels. It's easy to check with > a photo-sensor and oscilloscope. Or if you don't have access to that: > just switch of the onset synchronization in a rapid alternating > black-white sequence: > trial sequence with 3 empty text objects (A,B,C): > > A=duration=100ms, prerelease=100, background=black, onset synced > B=duration=[S]ms, prerelease=[S], background=white, onset NOT synced > C=duration=0ms, prerelease=0,background=black,onset synced > > Just run those trials in a trial list (N=20) and try values for [S] > which are smaller than the refresh interval. ?You can also put the > trial list in a block list with sequential range for the S attribute. > > You will see the same kind of horizontal distortions as with CRT > monitors, caused by fragmented screen updates. That would not be > possible with a fast bit-blitting pipeline. Huh! Neat. Didn't expect that. Thanks! On this same topic, however: it's been my experience that different "identical" monitors are oftentimes not particularly identical, even when they come in the same lot -- I used to run computer labs, and the images produced on a shipment of Dells varied quite a lot. So if you really care about the timings of visual stimuli, you'll want to develop some kind of validation for your actual hardware. Cheers, -Nate -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From pfc.groot at gmail.com Thu Jun 2 22:40:40 2011 From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 00:40:40 +0200 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree. For time critical experiments one should always be suspicious about what's really going on. LCD response times improved significantly (<10ms) since the introduction of special gamers and 3D displays (>100 Hz), but onset problems keep popping up. I would recommend to buy a high speed photo camera to validate display timing. Those neat little camera's are very affordable these days and are ideal for checking onset problems. A simple LED that can be connected to the printer port should also be added to the validation toolbox. (A LED can be switch on/off very fast by eprime if it's connected to the printer port.) Paul -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From baltimore.ben at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 00:59:31 2011 From: baltimore.ben at gmail.com (ben robinson) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 20:59:31 -0400 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: how would the LED help? On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Paul Groot wrote: > I agree. For time critical experiments one should always be suspicious > about what's really going on. LCD response times improved > significantly (<10ms) since the introduction of special gamers and 3D > displays (>100 Hz), but onset problems keep popping up. I would > recommend to buy a high speed photo camera to validate display timing. > Those neat little camera's are very affordable these days and are > ideal for checking onset problems. A simple LED that can be connected > to the printer port should also be added to the validation toolbox. (A > LED can be switch on/off very fast by eprime if it's connected to the > printer port.) > > Paul > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From l.bugayong at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 07:04:58 2011 From: l.bugayong at gmail.com (Suli) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 00:04:58 -0700 Subject: Need help setting up image-selection task Message-ID: Dear Google-Group members, We are a group of European linguists trying out our luck with E-Prime for our current research project. Being complete E-Prime novices and given the time pressure we are under, we'd need some help in developing our experiment: The respondents will be asked to pick one out of four images in a given slide. Preferably, this should be ?click-and-drag?-able onto one of the other three images or onto a specific field within the slide. If this is not possible, it would suffice to highlight the selected image and then, in the next slide, select the target image. What would be really neat is if all the while we could also record the cursor movements. I have been on the PST-support site and have fiddled around with various samples (Click-and-Drag/Track-Cursor-Coordinates/...). As I'm E-Prime illiterate and can't decipher the inline scripts (and all the other magic), however, it's impossible for me to make out how to combine these different components and create just one experiment. Is there anyone who can offer some insights or a quick fix? Thanks a lot! Suli -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From njvack at wisc.edu Fri Jun 3 13:16:40 2011 From: njvack at wisc.edu (Nate Vack) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 08:16:40 -0500 Subject: visual dot probe experiment: position of words & pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:59 PM, ben robinson wrote: > how would the LED help? An LED will have a much faster (and reliable) response time than some random monitor, so you can use it (with a high-speed camera) to validate your monitor's performance. -n -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mpaffel at gmail.com Fri Jun 3 14:11:38 2011 From: mpaffel at gmail.com (Matt Paffel) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 07:11:38 -0700 Subject: E-DataAid crashing In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92F6E114919@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Thank you all for the input. Thankfully I was able to recover the data using E-Recovery with the .txt files. Here is PST's response if this should ever happen to anyone else: "Unfortunately, it seems as though the data files became corrupt, but it is not clear why. We have had users report this before, and I have also seen it happen myself, but it is a pretty rare occurrence. Since you have found a way to regenerate the data files, you should now have access to all of your data files. If the problem is no longer occurring, I would say that this was most likely one of those rare occurrences (especially since nothing in your information above points to a single cause)." Additionally, should anyone have a similar problem in the future: "We have had users report that emailing data files, transferring them to a flash drive, etc. has caused them to become corrupt. If you need to email files, for example, you should ZIP them into a ZIP file and email the .ZIP. If you need to transfer them from one machine to the next, you can also burn the files to a CD to transfer them. In any case, you will want to save the files locally to the machine to which they have been transferred before opening them (i.e., do not open them directly from the external media or email)." On May 23, 10:55?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hiya, > I always found E-DataAid to be exceptionally stable. Also, I'd be amazed if updating to any other E-Prime version will do anything - as far as I can see, the only thing that's different between 2.0x and EP1 in terms of e-dataAid is that it saves the same files with an added 2. These can be interchangeably opened, so one wonders what the great use of the 2 in the name is, there. > > My immediate thought would be there's something either wrong with your e-dataAid install (so reinstall), or the data-files themselves. I think the first step the people over at PST will want to sort out is whether there's a problem with your E-DataAid (presumably with its install then, perhaps missing .net components or whatnot), or whether your data-files are somehow corrupted. Have you checked yet whether anyone else can open them? Have you tried re-making the .edat files with E-Recovery? When exactly does E-DataAid crash anyway (during opening of files, during some analysis, &c.)? > > As a side note, does anyone else think e-Prime should, in this i-Age, change the name? I'm personally of the opinion that Me-Prime sounds better (although perhaps a bit too late, as YouTube, MySpace and YouGov have all lost that glossiness... Gee-Prime and /i/-Prime will probably end up to be rather costly). > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MattPaffel > Sent: 20 May 2011 19:12 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: E-DataAid crashing > > Hi David, > > I sent PST a support request but I was hoping one of you E-Prime gurus > here had some insight so I don't have to wait two weeks for a reply > (not meant as a dis to PST, just impatient). > > Also, thanks for the heads up concerning .90. > > On May 20, 12:56?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > Matt, > > > Have you asked PST Web Support > > (http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp)??I would > > try that first. > > > Also, latest release of EP2 is 2.0.8.90, so you might also try updating. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > >E-DataAid has been crashing when opening files. However, it doesn't > > >happen with every file I try to open. > > > >When I try to open the files on XP, I get the error message: "E- > > >DataAid has encountered a problem and needs to close." > > > >When I try to open the files on Win 7, I get the error message: "E- > > >DataAid application has stopped working." > > > >Has anyone ever experienced this? If so, can the problem be remedied? > > > >E-Prime version: 2.0.8.79- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Fri Jun 3 17:49:34 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 13:49:34 -0400 Subject: Need help setting up image-selection task In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Suli, Since no one else has weighed in, I will now. Glad you have taken the trouble to first explore the PST site and the examples provided there, you are on the right track. Yes, what you want to do requires extensive coding that you would have to build up based on several of those examples plus your own skills. I do not think there is a "quick fix". As Michiel Spap? has said in a recent thread here, the "easy" fix would be to hire someone else to do this for you. But that would not be quick, as it might take some time to find a competent E-Prime developer for hire. My advice, as always, is instead to bite the bullet and take the slow way -- start with a course in Introduction to Computer Programming to get the underlying concepts and principles, and go from there. To that end, please see my posts here on How to Solve E-Prime Puzzles, and How to Learn E-Prime Programming (http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/5425e03968cab428 , http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b0ce54870b723fc3 ). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 6/3/2011 03:04 AM Friday, you wrote: >Dear Google-Group members, > >We are a group of European linguists trying out our luck with E-Prime >for our current research project. Being complete E-Prime novices and >given the time pressure we are under, we'd need some help in >developing our experiment: > >The respondents will be asked to pick one out of four images in a >given slide. Preferably, this should be ?click-and-drag?-able onto one >of the other three images or onto a specific field within the slide. >If this is not possible, it would suffice to highlight the selected >image and then, in the next slide, select the target image. > >What would be really neat is if all the while we could also record the >cursor movements. > >I have been on the PST-support site and have fiddled around with >various samples (Click-and-Drag/Track-Cursor-Coordinates/...). As I'm >E-Prime illiterate and can't decipher the inline scripts (and all the >other magic), however, it's impossible for me to make out how to >combine these different components and create just one experiment. Is >there anyone who can offer some insights or a quick fix? > >Thanks a lot! > >Suli -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com Mon Jun 6 23:35:49 2011 From: teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com (Javier Alvarez) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 16:35:49 -0700 Subject: Trouble, special feedback Message-ID: Hi. I'm Javier, from Chile. I'm working on an experiment about concept formation. Well, the experiment consists the displaying of words, where the test subject must score the word in a scale 0 to 7. At this point is everything right, but I'm stuck on a trouble, I need to show a final slide where appear the individual scores that the participant gave to each word, e.g. [word 1] 5 [word 2] 4 [word 3] 7 [word 4] 0 The experiment has 4 stages, and each stage has between 10 and 20 trials. I need 4 final displays. I'm hopping your help. Thanks. P.S: I'm spanish speaker, excuse me if my english is bad or unintelligible. Javier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From philippegoldin at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 06:07:41 2011 From: philippegoldin at gmail.com (philippe goldin) Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 23:07:41 -0700 Subject: dot probe in e-prime scripts Message-ID: Does anyone know where I can find any versions of the dot-probe already programmed in E-prime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From liwenna at gmail.com Tue Jun 7 09:55:32 2011 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 02:55:32 -0700 Subject: dot probe in e-prime scripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is quite some information available in this group's archives, I think. Generally speaking, you probably don't want to use a pre-made script as it (a) is highly unlikely to have exactly those features that you want for your probe and (b) creating the script yourself (based on info's around) gives you much more control over your experiment and will absolutely make your analysis easier as you'll be better able to read the log files and understand what the program did when and why. Best, liw On 7 jun, 08:07, philippe goldin wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find any versions of the dot-probe already > programmed in E-prime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From a.assfalg at googlemail.com Tue Jun 7 12:35:10 2011 From: a.assfalg at googlemail.com (Alexander) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 05:35:10 -0700 Subject: OSPAN-task Message-ID: Hi alltogether, I am wondering if anyone has a script sample for the OSPAN-task or if someone can help me with the program. My problem is the simplest possible programming of the rising number of calculations and the corresponding rise in the number of stimuli to memorize. Thanks for any help!! Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 7 14:03:35 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:03:35 -0400 Subject: OSPAN-task In-Reply-To: <7d7eeed8-9326-4400-9ea3-173ac0dccd6b@t16g2000vbi.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=e-prime+ospan -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Hi alltogether, > >I am wondering if anyone has a script sample for the OSPAN-task or if >someone can help me with the program. >My problem is the simplest possible programming of the rising number >of calculations and the corresponding rise in the number of stimuli to >memorize. > >Thanks for any help!! > >Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 7 14:07:36 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:07:36 -0400 Subject: dot probe in e-prime scripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=e-prime+dot-probe -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder >Does anyone know where I can find any versions of the dot-probe >already programmed in E-prime? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 7 14:16:19 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:16:19 -0400 Subject: Trouble, special feedback In-Reply-To: <6782341f-4a87-4af0-892c-deeb30ff28ed@e35g2000yqc.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Javier, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... In broad outline, you will have to use some global variables (or arrays) to keep track of all these scores, and then use those global variables to construct the final slide. For starters, see Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. If you need more help with global variables and arrays in general then you might want to take a course in Introduction to Computer Programming, or consult any elementary computer programming text. BTW, I find your English just fine, hope you can understand mine. Good luck, -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 6/6/2011 07:35 PM Monday, you wrote: >Hi. >I'm Javier, from Chile. I'm working on an experiment about concept >formation. Well, the experiment consists the displaying of words, >where the test subject must score the word in a scale 0 to 7. At this >point is everything right, but I'm stuck on a trouble, I need to show >a final slide where appear the individual scores that the participant >gave to each word, e.g. > >[word 1] 5 >[word 2] 4 >[word 3] 7 >[word 4] 0 > > >The experiment has 4 stages, and each stage has between 10 and 20 >trials. I need 4 final displays. I'm hopping your help. Thanks. > >P.S: I'm spanish speaker, excuse me if my english is bad or >unintelligible. > >Javier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From adeline.paignon at univ-savoie.fr Tue Jun 7 17:14:54 2011 From: adeline.paignon at univ-savoie.fr (Adeline) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:14:54 -0700 Subject: select only one level in a list ? help In-Reply-To: <4ddaaf44.cf472a0a.3fde.ffff8767SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: thanks for your second proposition to select my line ! it seems to be a good way to select just one line depending on subject,but I am not familiarized with the use of "counterbalance", I have to work on it, to see how it works ! thanks again for your help (sorry for my english, I hope you understand what I want to say) On 23 mai, 20:56, David McFarlane wrote: > Not the solution I had in mind, as it requires more code than the > Counterbalance approach -- i.e., in the List property pages set the > List Order to Counterbalance and Order By to whatever (e.g., > Subject), then use inline code any time before List1 to override the > Order By, e.g., > > Set List1.Deletion = PickOne(c.GetAttrib("mynumpermutation")) > > Admittedly, this is not officially documented, and you can only learn > this sort of thing by looking at the generated source code and hacking with it. > > So your solution does the job just as well and I am glad that it > works for you. ?It also, I admit, opens the way for other possibilities. > > Thanks for posting back with your solution, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 5/23/2011 12:47 PM Monday, you wrote: > > > > >thanks, > >as you said I find a solution in using this code > > >Dim nLevel As Integer > >For nLevel = 1 To List1.Size > > ? ? If nLevel = c.GetAttrib("mynumpermutation") then > > ? ? ? ? List1.SetWeight nLevel, 1 > > ? ? else List1.SetWeight nLevel, 0 > >Next 'nLevel > >List1.Reset > > >Thanks > > >On 19 mai, 17:39, David McFarlane wrote: > > >Adeline, > > > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > > > takes any and all questions at > >http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > > it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > Indeed, this is the purpose of Counterbalance in the Order field of > > > the Selection tab of any List. ?You might learn a bit more about this > > > from either the User's Guide or the Reference Guide that came with > > > E-Prime, or my own short write ups found at > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/26d2e1e83... > > > and > >http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/879ed8885.... > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > >Hi, (sorry for my english !!) > > > >I'm working on an experiment of artificial grammar. I use permutation > > > >to attribute 4 colors to 4 circles (having all possibles combinaisons) > > > >but I don't know how to select only one combinaison. > > > >I have my 24 combinaisons in List1 at the beggining of the experiment, > > > >and I want to select one line according to the number entered by the > > > >experimentateur. I want this number to be entered like subject , > > > >session etc .. > > > >Does anyone could help me ? > > > >Thanks > > > >Adeline- Masquer le texte des messages pr?c?dents - > > - Afficher le texte des messages pr?c?dents - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Thu Jun 9 08:33:47 2011 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 01:33:47 -0700 Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration In-Reply-To: <9b2e12a4-4970-4327-ac40-c0a24bc3dbe4@x3g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I ment to react back for a while but kept forgetting. I stand corrected on the use of randomizing fixation durations, I forgot the ERP rationale that Michiel explained. Still for the use that Krupa described I'd say that a 3500 ms cross defies it's own purpose and in such a design I would give a larger range of durations to a blank intertrialinterval display and a smaller durations range to the cross. David and Miciel, also thanks for pointing out the drawbacks of using the random(value,value) inline. I like it when such discussions arise. Best, AW On Jun 1, 12:33?pm, Krupa Sheth wrote: > Hi! > > We are also using this experiment to assess for inhibition in children > with neurodevelopmental disorders (we used the anti-saccade task). > Therefore by randomising the fixation duration it allows a) to ensure > that their gaze is constantly at the centre of the screen ensuring > that ?study participants are motivated and attentive throughout the > testing session and more importantly b) prevents participants from > utilizing any anticipatory strategies while executing the task. > > Hope this answers your question. > > -- > Best Wishes, > > Krupa Sheth > Research Associate > Cerebra Centre of Neurodevelopmental Disorders > University of Birmingham > Edgbaston > B15 2TT > > On May 31, 5:46?pm, liwenna wrote: > > > > > > > > > Glad you got it to work, but if you don't mind me asking: why would > > you want your fixation cross to have a random duration? > > > I've seen people ask for this before, but as far as I can see it makes > > no sense at all. > > > The fixation cross serves the purpose of fixating the gaze and warning > > that the new trial is too start. It exerts it's attention capturing > > 'quality' only at it's onset and should therefore appear always about > > 500 ms prior to the start of the trial, instead of having a random > > duration. Especially with a fixation cross as long as 3500 changes are > > pretty high that your participant's gaze has wandered elsewhere after > > 3500 ms when the trial starts, in which case the fixation cross > > achieved the exact opposite from what it is intended to do. The cross > > intends to indicate the start of the trial to the pp and therefore it > > should be predictable in it's duration. > > > You do want to have a random duration inter trial interval in order to > > avoid automation of the timing of the motor response over trials, but > > rather use a separate blank slide (inter trial interval slide) with > > it's duration set to random in between the response slide and the next > > fixation cross (i,e, either at the total end or right at the start of > > the trial procedure), instead of randomizing the duration of the > > cross. > > > best, > > > liw > > > On May 31, 6:18?pm, Michiel Spape > > wrote: > > > > Hiya, > > > There's indeed nothing wrong with the code, but yes, it's more elegant to do David's suggestion, because you're at least sure it's also logged. There is also good reason to do the nested list with Duration, because you're never quite sure whether "random" isn't too random for your purposes. Suppose, for instance, that you constantly show each and every subject really short fixations? That will make an utter mess of your jittering purposes! It's unlikely, but still possible nonetheless - the joy of randomising with replacement. So, indeed, if you have a nice nested list with every random value (you can safely skip a few, because of screen refresh rates), you can be safe in the knowledge that at least you're sure no value is used twice (depending on the length of the list and the number of trials, of course). > > > > Best, > > > Mich > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > Michiel Spap? > > > Research Fellow > > > Perception & Action group > > > University of Nottingham > > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David McFarlane > > > Sent: 31 May 2011 15:57 > > > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > Subject: RE: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) > > > PST's trained staff takes any and all questions > > > athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp > > > , and they strive to respond to all requests in > > > 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their > > > substitute for proper documentation, so make full > > > use of it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST > > > Web Support, please extend the courtesy of > > > posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > First, I agree that you would do well to work > > > through Mich's E-Primer, as well as the Getting > > > Started and User's Guides that came with E-Prime. > > > > Now, the inline code method allows you to easily > > > randomize down to the ms, and without using > > > attribute references. ?OTOH, the lack of an > > > attribute reference means that the data log > > > contains no record of the randomized fixation > > > duration. ?So I would modify Mich's example as follows: > > > > c.SetAttrib "FixDur", Random(1500,3500) > > > > Then, in my fixation object, I would set Duration to "[FixDur]". ?Done. > > > > But if you don't mind (or even prefer) a coarser > > > grain (say, 1500 - 3500 ms in steps of 100 ms) > > > then you can accomplish this without any inline > > > code. ?Just use a List, or perhaps a nested List, > > > to hold all the possible fixation durations, and > > > set the List Selection to Random. ?Suppose we > > > call that attribute (i.e., column) > > > "FixDur". ?Then, as before, in your fixation > > > object set Duration to "[FixDur]". ?Done. ?(For > > > more on nested Lists in particular, see Appendix > > > C of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime.) > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > At 5/31/2011 10:26 AM Tuesday, Michiel Spape wrote: > > > >It's actually somewhere in the E-Primer: > > > >http://www.cognitology.eu/pubs/AnE-Primer2009.pdf > > > > ?as an example of what to do with line-in > > > >stuff... I suggest going through the last 2 chapters, or earlier. > > > >But, then again, if you have a textdisplay > > > >showing just a +, called FixationDisplay, and a > > > >short inline before that: > > > >FixationDisplay.Duration = Random(1500,3500) - you're done. > > > >Best, > > > >Mich > > > > >Michiel Spap? > > > >Research Fellow > > > >Perception & Action group > > > >University of Nottingham > > > >School of Psychology > > > >www.cognitology.eu > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: e-prime at googlegroups.com > > > >[mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krupa Sheth > > > >Sent: 31 May 2011 14:34 > > > >To: E-Prime > > > >Subject: Randomising the Fixation duration > > > > >Hi! I been totally baffled by this and I am sure there is a way where > > > >to over come this. > > > > >Is there any function in E-Prime that allows the fixation point ("+") > > > >to appear for a random duration between 1500ms to 3500ms. I am sure it > > > >is possible but am so clueless how to do it. > > > > >Many Thanks!! > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > > > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > > > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > > > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 16:18:46 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:18:46 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli Message-ID: Hi all, I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design with four groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the conditions randomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, regardless of the counterbalancing of conditions has a unique ordering of the stimuli from start through finish. Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) many thanks in advance, Emmet Clarke University of York -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com Tue Jun 14 22:38:25 2011 From: teniaqueserelchavodelocio at gmail.com (Javier Alvarez) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:38:25 -0700 Subject: Trouble, special feedback In-Reply-To: <4dee32bd.ce5e2a0a.1b83.610fSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks too much!!! I'm very grateful for your help. Vey useful. THANKS!!!11!!!!!!!! Javier On 7 jun, 10:16, David McFarlane wrote: > Javier, > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take... > > In broad outline, you will have to use some global variables (or > arrays) to keep track of all these scores, and then use those global > variables to construct the final slide. ?For starters, see Chapter 4 > of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. ?If you need more help > with global variables and arrays in general then you might want to > take a course in Introduction to Computer Programming, or consult any > elementary computer programming text. > > BTW, I find your English just fine, hope you can understand mine. > > Good luck, > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > At 6/6/2011 07:35 PM Monday, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Hi. > >I'm Javier, from Chile. I'm working on an experiment about concept > >formation. Well, the experiment consists the displaying of words, > >where the test subject must score the word in a scale 0 to 7. At this > >point is everything right, but I'm stuck on a trouble, I need to show > >a final slide where appear the individual scores that the participant > >gave to each word, e.g. > > >[word 1] ? ? ?5 > >[word 2] ? ? ?4 > >[word 3] ? ? ?7 > >[word 4] ? ? ?0 > > >The experiment has 4 stages, and each stage has between 10 and 20 > >trials. I need 4 final displays. I'm hopping your help. Thanks. > > >P.S: I'm spanish speaker, excuse me if my english is bad or > >unintelligible. > > >Javier -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Jun 16 18:39:50 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:39:50 -0400 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: <11dc0967-0069-464c-9e2c-70de299a3707@d19g2000prh.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Emmet, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I can. Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled). You can do this very easily with a nested List. Just put all your stimuli in their own nested List, say, StimList. Set that List to Random. Now, in any other List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just as you normally would. You can have one main List take 25 samples from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up right where it left off. IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over. Or, you can get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them. Think of nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a nested List. I have written about this elsewhere, if you search around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but here is another attempt... So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested Lists) to draw from. So, you start by shuffling all these decks as needed. Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the attribute values written on it. If any of these names another deck, you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from that deck, etc. When you are done you will have a set of attribute values to work with for that trial. At the end of the trial you put all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and then draw new cards. Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, but this is a pretty good first approximation. Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex matter. Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design with four >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the >conditions randomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, >regardless of the counterbalancing of conditions has a unique ordering >of the stimuli from start through finish. > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > >many thanks in advance, > >Emmet Clarke > >University of York -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 13:26:00 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 06:26:00 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: <4dfa4e05.94592a0a.689c.1bc6SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi David, Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with it: >You can do this very easily > with a nested List. Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > List, say, StimList. So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I get this error message: "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: Can't find procedure definition" So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? many thanks in advance, Emmet University of York On Jun 16, 7:39?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Emmet, > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take... > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > can. ?Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled). ?You can do this very easily > with a nested List. ?Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > List, say, StimList. ?Set that List to Random. ?Now, in any other > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > as you normally would. ?You can have one main List take 25 samples > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > right where it left off. ?IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over. ?Or, you can > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them. ?Think of > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > nested List. ?I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > here is another attempt... > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > Lists) to draw from. ?So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > needed. ?Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > attribute values written on it. ?If any of these names another deck, > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > that deck, etc. ?When you are done you will have a set of attribute > values to work with for that trial. ?At the end of the trial you put > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > then draw new cards. ?Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > matter. ?Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > >Hi all, > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > >many thanks in advance, > > >Emmet Clarke > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From r.k.withers at gmail.com Thu Jun 23 18:45:16 2011 From: r.k.withers at gmail.com (rkw) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 11:45:16 -0700 Subject: Display a list of words before randomly repeating part of the list Message-ID: Hi, I am new to using E-Prime and am currently in the process of designing a memory task. Basically the subjects are shown a bunch of words in a row and need to identify whether or not that word has appeared before during that run. What I am struggling with is that what needs to happen is that 48 new words (of a list of 84 words) are shown, and then after these 48, 12 of these 48 that have been shown are randomly selected and repeated with the presentation of the remaining 36 words (from the original list of 84). So far I have tried splitting the BlockProc into 2 different TrialLists, the first which has a nested list indicating that 48 of the 84 words need to be randomly selected. For the second TrialList I tried nesting a Repeat List and a list that was the same as above (therefore it would present the remaining 36 of 84 words). I couldn't figure out how to set the RepeatList to only randomly select words from the 48 words shown first, without just randomly repeating 12 words from the entire 84. Perhaps I have gone about solving this problem in entirely the wrong way. Any suggestions or advice or answers would be incredibly appreciated! I also am very unfamiliar with writing eBasic script, so I have been trying to avoid using that, but I am entirely prepared to make use of it in order to solve this problem. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From liwenna at gmail.com Fri Jun 24 10:15:29 2011 From: liwenna at gmail.com (liwenna) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 03:15:29 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: and what happens if you, in the new nested list, remove whatever is entered in the collumn 'procedure' ? On Jun 23, 3:26?pm, Emmet wrote: > Hi David, > > Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response > emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what > you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with > it: > > >You can do this very easily > > with a nested List. ?Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > List, say, StimList. > > So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, > for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my > slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I > get this error message: > > "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: > Can't find procedure definition" > > So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. > Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am > slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that > perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? > > many thanks in advance, > > Emmet > > University of York > > On Jun 16, 7:39?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > > > > > Emmet, > > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > That said, here is my take... > > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > > can. ?Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled). ?You can do this very easily > > with a nested List. ?Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > List, say, StimList. ?Set that List to Random. ?Now, in any other > > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > > as you normally would. ?You can have one main List take 25 samples > > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > > right where it left off. ?IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over. ?Or, you can > > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them. ?Think of > > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > > nested List. ?I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > > here is another attempt... > > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > > Lists) to draw from. ?So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > > needed. ?Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > > attribute values written on it. ?If any of these names another deck, > > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > > that deck, etc. ?When you are done you will have a set of attribute > > values to work with for that trial. ?At the end of the trial you put > > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > > then draw new cards. ?Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > > matter. ?Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > >Hi all, > > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > > >many thanks in advance, > > > >Emmet Clarke > > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From evelina at illinois.edu Mon Jun 27 02:43:58 2011 From: evelina at illinois.edu (Evelina Tapia) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:43:58 -0700 Subject: Input object property Message-ID: Hello, I want to be able to input a color in which words on slides are displayed at the beginning (or middle) of an experiment. I thought of using the message box but I am not sure how to pass on the input from the message box to the appropriate level at which the object in question is stored. Also, is it even possible to successfully input and use colors as RGB values (e.g. 133,123,142)? If not, what would be the best way to be able to have the flexibility to input desirable RGB values? I have limited experience with InLines so I'll be grateful for any suggestions :) Evelina -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 10:40:27 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 03:40:27 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Liwenna, Thanks for the advice- emptying the procedure column worked and I am now able to show more than one slide per each condition of my experiment. This has created another problem for me because now I can only seem to get text into my slides. I used text just to get the design up and running but now when I enter a filename into the Stimulus attribute of my nested list, it enters the text of the filename rather than referencing the file itself. I can get my picture up but only if I insert it directly into the slide object. But I can't do that because I have 125 of them to exhibit! I'm getting for antsy about my project now, deadlines and this eprime business has consumed my life! many many thanks, Emmet On Jun 24, 11:15?am, liwenna wrote: > and what happens if you, in the new nested list, remove whatever is > entered in the collumn 'procedure' ? > > On Jun 23, 3:26?pm, Emmet wrote: > > > > > Hi David, > > > Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response > > emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what > > you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with > > it: > > > >You can do this very easily > > > with a nested List. ?Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > List, say, StimList. > > > So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, > > for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my > > slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I > > get this error message: > > > "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: > > Can't find procedure definition" > > > So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. > > Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am > > slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that > > perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? > > > many thanks in advance, > > > Emmet > > > University of York > > > On Jun 16, 7:39?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > Emmet, > > > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > > > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > > it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > > > can. ?Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > > > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > > > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > > > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled). ?You can do this very easily > > > with a nested List. ?Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > List, say, StimList. ?Set that List to Random. ?Now, in any other > > > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > > > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > > > as you normally would. ?You can have one main List take 25 samples > > > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > > > right where it left off. ?IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > > > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > > > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over. ?Or, you can > > > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > > > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them. ?Think of > > > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > > > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > > > nested List. ?I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > > > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > > > here is another attempt... > > > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > > > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > > > Lists) to draw from. ?So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > > > needed. ?Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > > > attribute values written on it. ?If any of these names another deck, > > > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > > > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > > > that deck, etc. ?When you are done you will have a set of attribute > > > values to work with for that trial. ?At the end of the trial you put > > > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > > > then draw new cards. ?Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > > > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > > > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > > > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > > > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > > > matter. ?Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, > > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > >Hi all, > > > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > > > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > > > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > > > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > > > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > > > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > > > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > > > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > > > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > > > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > > > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > > > >many thanks in advance, > > > > >Emmet Clarke > > > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com Mon Jun 27 15:05:55 2011 From: emmet.c.clarke at gmail.com (Emmet) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 08:05:55 -0700 Subject: Four conditions - One pool of stimuli In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi everyone, I had a very productive few hours since my last panicked entry and I think I have my experiment sorted very well. It was almost a couple of Eureka moments and browsing previous questions and the PST forums. I now have three conditions and a practice block, all drawing 25 random pictures from a nested list of 125 pictures. I must say, the userguide, while initially helpful, was more of a hindrance towards the end. I felt that discovering how to construct the bare bones "skeleton" of the sequence of events was the key. Since I did that, I've been adding bits and pieces on here and there for the last couple of hours and I think I may be ready to test my participants in a few days. Thank you for your help, David and Liwenna. best regards, Emmet University of York On Jun 27, 11:40?am, Emmet wrote: > Hi Liwenna, > > Thanks for the advice- emptying the procedure column worked and I am > now able to show more than one slide per each condition of my > experiment. This has created another problem for me because now I can > only seem to get text into my slides. I used text just to get the > design up and running but now when I enter a filename into the > Stimulus attribute of my nested list, it enters the text of the > filename rather than referencing the file itself. I can get my picture > up but only if I insert it directly into the slide object. But I can't > do that because I have 125 of them to exhibit! I'm getting for antsy > about my project now, deadlines and this eprime business has consumed > my life! > > many many thanks, > > Emmet > > On Jun 24, 11:15?am, liwenna wrote: > > > > > and what happens if you, in the new nested list, remove whatever is > > entered in the collumn 'procedure' ? > > > On Jun 23, 3:26?pm, Emmet wrote: > > > > Hi David, > > > > Thank you for your response- it was spot on. I also had a response > > > emailed to me from another member, so thank you too! I understand what > > > you are telling me although I am having one operational problem with > > > it: > > > > >You can do this very easily > > > > with a nested List. ?Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > > List, say, StimList. > > > > So I have my nested list which I have called Stimlist and I currently, > > > for practice reasons, have one level which samples perfectly from my > > > slide object. Now when I add in a second level with another stimulus I > > > get this error message: > > > > "Run-time Error (Line 295) -999: Factor Error: > > > Can't find procedure definition" > > > > So it runs through fine until I add a second level to my nested list. > > > Considering I need 125 levels (pictures) to enter into this list, I am > > > slighty worries. I have been reading other topics and have seen that > > > perhaps I should enter all 125 pictures into one Level? > > > > many thanks in advance, > > > > Emmet > > > > University of York > > > > On Jun 16, 7:39?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > > > > > Emmet, > > > > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > > > > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > > > > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > > > > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > > > > it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > > > > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > > > > That said, here is my take... > > > > > Not sure that I follow your question, so I will answer one that I > > > > can. ?Suppose you have a pool of 125 stimuli and, *within any one > > > > session*, you want to sample 25 at a time randomly without > > > > replacement (i.e., no stimulus reused either within any sample of 25 > > > > nor until all 125 stimuli are sampled). ?You can do this very easily > > > > with a nested List. ?Just put all your stimuli in their own nested > > > > List, say, StimList. ?Set that List to Random. ?Now, in any other > > > > List where you want to use stimuli from StimList, simply add StimList > > > > in the Nested column, and then use the attributes from StimList just > > > > as you normally would. ?You can have one main List take 25 samples > > > > from StimList, and later take another 25 samples, and it will pick up > > > > right where it left off. ?IOW, E-Prime essentially shuffles all 125 > > > > stimuli, and then "draws" from that shuffled List until the List is > > > > exhausted, and then reshuffles the List and starts over. ?Or, you can > > > > get other effects by changing settings under the List Reset/Exit tab. > > > > > In general, just think of Lists (whether nested or not) as decks of > > > > playing cards, that's how I have come to understand them. ?Think of > > > > nested Lists as just additional, separate decks of cards that get > > > > drawn from whenever you draw a row from a main List that names a > > > > nested List. ?I have written about this elsewhere, if you search > > > > around you may find my earlier posts here or on the PST Forum, but > > > > here is another attempt... > > > > > So, each "card" (row) in any "deck" (List) has some attribute values > > > > written on it; some of those may be the names of other decks (nested > > > > Lists) to draw from. ?So, you start by shuffling all these decks as > > > > needed. ?Then you draw a card from a "main" deck, and read off the > > > > attribute values written on it. ?If any of these names another deck, > > > > you draw a card from those decks and read off those attribute values; > > > > once again, if any of these names another deck then you draw from > > > > that deck, etc. ?When you are done you will have a set of attribute > > > > values to work with for that trial. ?At the end of the trial you put > > > > all the cards that you drew onto a discard pile for each deck, and > > > > then draw new cards. ?Whenever you exhaust any deck, you pick up its > > > > discard pile, reshuffle that deck as needed, and carry on. > > > > > It gets a little more complicated than this because you can modify > > > > this behavior by changing the settings under the List Reset/Exit tab, > > > > but this is a pretty good first approximation. > > > > > Now, if you want samples of 25 to take place *across* separate > > > > sessions, well, that is an entirely different and more complex > > > > matter. ?Could be done, but no sense trying to explain that now. > > > > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > > > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > > > > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, > > > > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > > > > At 6/14/2011 12:18 PM Tuesday, you wrote: > > > > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I have battled through the entire user guide and I am definitely > > > > >getting places with my E Prime project but I have one sticking point I > > > > >hope you can help me with. I have a within-groups design withfour > > > > >groups (and one practice condition) and each condition will receive 25 > > > > >picture slides. I think that my answer may lie within the nested lists > > > > >option but I'm struggling to a find a way to have each of the > > > > >conditionsrandomly sample (without replacement) their 25 pictures > > > > >from the same 125 picture list so that, in effect, each participant, > > > > >regardless of the counterbalancing ofconditionshas a unique ordering > > > > >of the stimuli from start through finish. > > > > > >Please let me know if I have not explained myself clearly or if you > > > > >would like me to post up a screenshot or something (can I do that?) > > > > > >many thanks in advance, > > > > > >Emmet Clarke > > > > > >University of York- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From evelina at illinois.edu Mon Jun 27 18:13:48 2011 From: evelina at illinois.edu (Evelina Tapia) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:13:48 -0700 Subject: Pre-loading images and nested lists Message-ID: Hello, I found InLine script for preloading images without using Canvas scripting (written by Brandon Cernicky -- thank you! and available on http://godzilla.kennedykrieger.org/sw/eprime/samples/) but I am having trouble implementing the InLine with nested lists. So, I have a List of 40 trials within which I have a couple nested lists that contain about 100 images each. I want to randomly pull images from those lists during the trial procedure. The InLine for preloading is placed right at the beginning of the procedure but when it should read the image file names, it reads direction to the nested list (e.g. Target column says [BeachImage])and crashes. How could this be solved? The relevant part of the InLine reads as follows: 'Variable used to store filenames Dim strTargetFile as String 'Retrieve the filename from the Context strTargetFile = c.GetAttrib("BeachImage") 'this is column name in one of the nested lists 'Call the helper routine to load the image 'into the SlideImage component LoadSlideImageFile Targetzero.States(Targetzero.ActiveState), "theTarget", strTargetFile THANK YOU!!!! Evelina -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Mon Jun 27 18:57:59 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: Input object property In-Reply-To: <906fa5d9-171c-4a5f-b09a-98884333b866@j15g2000yqf.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: Evelina, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... As I understand it, you want to enter a color as text or numbers during runtime, and then use that color for some text on a Slide. Not sure why you want to do this (there is probably an better way to achieve your ultimate end), but here are my thoughts. First, the MsgBox() function does not work for inputting text, it takes only button responses. For text input you will need to use either InputBox$() or AskBox$() -- see those topics in the E-Basic Help facility. You may then use the input text to set a color. You may use some well-known color names, or RGB values -- I don't know where this is documented, I had to use Find in the E-Basic Help with "color" or "rgb" to find some glancing documentation in topics such as StimDisplay.ForeColor. Anyway, it looks like you may indeed use strings such as "255,255,255" for RGB values. I would pass on the value through an attribute reference. So, sometime before my Slide, I would have inline code such as c.SetAttrib "ForeColor", InputBox$("Enter color:") Then, for the text sub-object on my Slide, I would set its ForeColor property to "[ForeColor]". That would do it (I know, because I just tried this out and it worked). Of course, make sure to set the color attribute at a high enough Context level -- for more on this see Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. Finally are a few general suggestions about using InLines: (1) Work through Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. (2) If you don't already have some computer programming experience, then take a course on Introduction to Computer Programming. (3) Work through the book "VBA for Dummies". -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) At 6/26/2011 10:43 PM Sunday, you wrote: >Hello, > >I want to be able to input a color in which words on slides are >displayed at the beginning (or middle) of an experiment. I thought of >using the message box but I am not sure how to pass on the input from >the message box to the appropriate level at which the object in >question is stored. > >Also, is it even possible to successfully input and use colors as RGB >values (e.g. 133,123,142)? If not, what would be the best way to be >able to have the flexibility to input desirable RGB values? > >I have limited experience with InLines so I'll be grateful for any >suggestions :) > >Evelina -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From evelina at illinois.edu Tue Jun 28 03:31:29 2011 From: evelina at illinois.edu (Evelina Tapia) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:31:29 -0700 Subject: Input object property In-Reply-To: <4e08d2f9.8c7a2a0a.18cd.50fcSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: David, thank you for the reply! InputBox$() works beautifully! I am now trying to figure out how and to what stimulus to assign several different inputs (e.g. green color to first slide on trial 1 and to second slide on trial 2 etc) but I'll work on this puzzle alone -- hopefully successfully :) Evelina On Jun 27, 1:57?pm, David McFarlane wrote: > Evelina, > > Stock reminder: ?1) I do not work for PST. ?2) PST's trained staff > takes any and all questions athttp://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp, and they > strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty > much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of > it. ?3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend > the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. > > That said, here is my take... > > As I understand it, you want to enter a color as text or numbers > during runtime, and then use that color for some text on a > Slide. ?Not sure why you want to do this (there is probably an better > way to achieve your ultimate end), but here are my thoughts. > > First, the MsgBox() function does not work for inputting text, it > takes only button responses. ?For text input you will need to use > either InputBox$() or AskBox$() -- see those topics in the E-Basic > Help facility. ?You may then use the input text to set a color. ?You > may use some well-known color names, or RGB values -- I don't know > where this is documented, I had to use Find in the E-Basic Help with > "color" or "rgb" to find some glancing documentation in topics such > as StimDisplay.ForeColor. ?Anyway, it looks like you may indeed use > strings such as "255,255,255" for RGB values. > > I would pass on the value through an attribute reference. ?So, > sometime before my Slide, I would have inline code such as > > c.SetAttrib "ForeColor", InputBox$("Enter color:") > > Then, for the text sub-object on my Slide, I would set its ForeColor > property to "[ForeColor]". ?That would do it (I know, because I just > tried this out and it worked). ?Of course, make sure to set the color > attribute at a high enough Context level -- for more on this see > Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. > > Finally are a few general suggestions about using InLines: > > (1) Work through Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime. > > (2) If you don't already have some computer programming experience, > then take a course on Introduction to Computer Programming. > > (3) Work through the book "VBA for Dummies". > > -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over > public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." ?(Richard Feynman, > Nobel prize-winning physicist) > > At 6/26/2011 10:43 PM Sunday, you wrote: > > > > >Hello, > > >I want to be able to input a color in which words on slides are > >displayed at the beginning (or middle) of an experiment. I thought of > >using the message box but I am not sure how to pass on the input from > >the message box to the appropriate level at which the object in > >question is stored. > > >Also, is it even possible to successfully input and use colors as RGB > >values (e.g. 133,123,142)? If not, what would be the best way to be > >able to have the flexibility to input desirable RGB values? > > >I have limited experience with InLines so I'll be grateful for any > >suggestions :) > > >Evelina- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From demiral.007 at googlemail.com Tue Jun 28 06:58:52 2011 From: demiral.007 at googlemail.com (Baris Demiral) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 07:58:52 +0100 Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger Message-ID: Dear E-prime users, In our script, we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech input from SRBOX (with input key defined as "6"). We want to write an inline code (without jump) to make it possible to send a trigger as soon as the speech input is recognized. We do not want to use jump , becasue after this object there are things which should be executed. How do we write an inline script call like "If SRBOX.activated=TRUE, then WritePort.. " kind of description? Also, in our tests, eventhough we increased the sensitivity of the SRBOX for speech input it writes the onset time of the speech as "0", I wonder there is something that we are missing...any suggestions? Thank you for your help in advance, Baris -- SB Demiral, PhD. Department of Psychology 7 George Square The University of Edinburgh Edinburgh, EH8 9JZ UK Phone: +44 (0131) 6503063 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Tue Jun 28 10:56:54 2011 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:56:54 +0100 Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hiya, The great benefit of the SRBOX as an inputdevice in E-Prime is that it is really nicely integrated into E-Prime. As such, of course you *can* try to poll it every once in a while, but the recommended way of dealing with these things is: 1. Given that you have a stimulus, have some textdisplay with inputobject SRBOX. 2. Send the trigger (inline aplenty around this group) as soon as input on voicekey is received, which terminates the object. Something like offset trigger enable? I can't remember from the top of my head. 3. Continue, if you must, the stimulus. I imagine that you want to keep showing the stimulus even though voicekey input has been received so that merely the trigger is send but your (EEG?) data is not disrupted by offsets of stimuli, correct? In that case, I tend to find it easiest just to do either one of two things: - Have a 'hidden' object which has a long time limit (but 0 ms shown), which terminates if voicekey input has been received (so just add the SRBOX as input device there). - Show a stimulus that looks exactly like the stimulus to which people respond *after* that one. I.e., just a copy, with length desired-stimulus-length minus duration of preceding stimulus. That way, you can do all sorts of stuff in between presentation and the participant should never notice. Finally, a word of caution: always see if you can get the voicekey/srbox to work in the simplest of setups: just one display with infinite duration, terminates only with SRBOX button input. If that doesn't work, the SRBOX is probably incorrectly configured. If it does, continue with voicekey input. If that immediately, as you say, triggers the voicekey, see if the sensitivity is correct. Only after doing all this, I would continue making the real experiment. Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Baris Demiral Sent: 28 June 2011 07:59 To: e-prime at googlegroups.com Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger Dear E-prime users, In our script, we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech input from SRBOX (with input key defined as "6"). We want to write an inline code (without jump) to make it possible to send a trigger as soon as the speech input is recognized. We do not want to use jump , becasue after this object there are things which should be executed. How do we write an inline script call like "If SRBOX.activated=TRUE, then WritePort.. " kind of description? Also, in our tests, eventhough we increased the sensitivity of the SRBOX for speech input it writes the onset time of the speech as "0", I wonder there is something that we are missing...any suggestions? Thank you for your help in advance, Baris -- SB Demiral, PhD. Department of Psychology 7 George Square The University of Edinburgh Edinburgh, EH8 9JZ UK Phone: +44 (0131) 6503063 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 28 15:51:00 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 11:51:00 -0400 Subject: SRBOX speech input trigger In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Baris, Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff takes any and all questions at http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of it. 3) If you do get an answer from PST Web Support, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. That said, here is my take... You have three issues mixed together here: 1) Sending a signal to external equipment following a response. 2) Using the SRBox for a response. 3) Using the SRBox as a voicekey. I like to think that you have sorted 2 & 3; if not, first heed Mich's advice to start small and work up from there. OTOH I am puzzled by your statement that "it writes the onset time of the speech as '0'". That makes no sense. Onset times are in ms from the start of the session, so it is completely impossible to get onset times of 0. Perhaps you meant something else? But on to issue 1. By "we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech input from SRBOX" do you mean that your stimulus object (let's call it StimSlide) has a Duration of (infinite) and End Action Terminate (i.e., a self-paced stimulus terminated only by voice response)? And you want to send the same signal to your external device whenever the subject responds? If so, you might use the OnsetSignal... and OffsetSignal... properties. I would set this up using inline code at the start of the program, something like Const Lpt1Port as Integer = &h0378 ' adjust to match your system Const RespSignal as Integer = &hFF ' adjust for your signal StimSlide.OnsetSignalPort = Lpt1Port StimSlide.OnsetSignalData = 0 ' reset output at start of stimulus StimSlide.OnsetSignalEnabled = True StimSlide.OffsetSignalPort = Lpt1Port StimSlide.OffsetSignalData = RespSignal StimSlide.OffsetSignalEnabled = True You can learn more about these properties by looking up the appropriate topics in the E-Basic Help facility. StimSlide will now send the RespSignal at its offset, which happens as soon as it gets a response. Note that I set OnsetSignalData to 0 -- RespSignal stays on the output port until something else replaces it, here I use the OnsetSignal to reset the port, you could also use other means. But suppose your stimulus has a time limit, so that it might terminate without a response, and you want a signal only in the case of a response. In that case you might skip all the Onset/OffsetSignal... stuff above, and do something like the following in inline code right after your stimulus: Const Lpt1Port as Integer = &h0378 ' adjust to match your system Const RespSignal as Integer = &hFF ' adjust for your signal Const SignalDur as Long = 10 If (StimSlide.RT > 0) Then WritePort Lpt1Port, RespSignal Sleep SignalDur WritePort Lpt1Port, 0 ' reset output End If (This uses .RT to detect a response, for other options see my comments at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/5e712b8b726ea0de/798ed4c44b6c44e3 .) For more discussion on this, and a solution to a more complex scenario (sending signal at time of response while letting the stimulus continue its Duration), see threads at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/abec5564c65de738 and http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd (which you could have found by doing a search using terms like "OnsetSignal"). -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist) >Dear E-prime users, > >In our script, we have an e-prime object waiting for the speech >input from SRBOX (with input key defined as "6"). We want to write >an inline code (without jump) to make it possible to send a trigger >as soon as the speech input is recognized. We do not want to use >jump , becasue after this object there are things which should be >executed. How do we write an inline script call like "If >SRBOX.activated=TRUE, then WritePort.. " kind of description? > >Also, in our tests, eventhough we increased the sensitivity of the >SRBOX for speech input it writes the onset time of the speech as >"0", I wonder there is something that we are missing...any suggestions? > >Thank you for your help in advance, >Baris > >-- >SB Demiral, PhD. >Department of Psychology >7 George Square >The University of Edinburgh >Edinburgh, EH8 9JZ >UK >Phone: +44 (0131) 6503063 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Tue Jun 28 16:15:45 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:15:45 -0400 Subject: sending trigger to other devices locked on to the time of response In-Reply-To: <4c7ff663.8b19e70a.0de6.788bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com> Message-ID: Gosh, looking over this old thread, I see that I overinterpreted the question and answered one more complex than the question asked. I addressed the question of how to send an output signal following a response that did *not* terminate the stimulus (i.e., End Action = (none), so stimulus finishes its Duration after the response). More likely the questioner had a simpler case in mind, i.e., a self-paced stimulus where the response terminates the stimulus, and then E-Prime sends an output signal. For that simpler case, please see discussion at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ef0e5a8d8b87aa0c . -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 9/2/2010 03:08 PM Thursday, you wrote: >Good timing -- It just so happens that I have been working on this >very issue for a lab here. You have to make the proper settings in >your stimulus, and use a bit of inline code following the >stimulus. Here is the fully-commented inline code for my solution: > > >'/---------------------------------------------------------------------- >' We wish to present a stimulus (in this case, StimText), get a >' response during that stimlus, and raise a signal as soon as the >' subject responds. >' >' To do that, we need to run this inline code during StimText. We >' could simply set the Duration of StimText to 0 or so (depending on >' considerations such as leaving some time between stimulus .OnsetSignal >' and .OffsetSignal) and then our code would have to also handle >' further stimulus timing. But with judicious use of Duration and >' PreRelease, E-Prime will automatically take care of stimulus timing >' for us. >' >' So instead we simply set the Duration of StimText as desired (which >' as a result automatically determines the target onset time for the >' next stimulus object), and we set the PreRelease of StimText to a >' suitably large value (preferably >= Duration, but perhaps less due >' to other considerations as mentioned earlier). Now this code will >' start to run soon after the onset of StimText, and handle the >' reaction to the subject response. >' >' Finally, this code simply makes use of .IsPending() to detect the >' response (see the InputMask.IsPending topic in the online E-Basic >' Help). Note that as a result StimText will last at least as long >' its input mask Time Limit, regardless of its Duration (if you just >' keep Time Limit at the default of "(same as duration)" then this >' will not pose a problem). > >Const LptDataPort as Integer = &H0378 ' adjust this for your system >Const SignalData as Integer = &HFF ' adjust this for your device >Const LoopDelay as Long = 2 'ms; set as small as possible for your > ' system > >Do While StimText.InputMasks.IsPending() > ' Some slower machines (such as my home laptop) need a delay so that > ' EP can detect & handle input: > Sleep LoopDelay >Loop >WritePort LptDataPort, SignalData >'\---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >This is fine as long as you limit the response to coming during the >stimulus. If you want to present a train of stimuli during the >response period then you must do a little more. I also have a >solution for that, but it is rather intricate and too much trouble >to go into here, so I hope this is good enough for now. > >-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder > > >At 9/1/2010 02:38 AM Wednesday, Jaeyong Lee wrote: >>I was wondering if there is a way to send trigger signals locked on >>the response time. >> >>For instance, >> >>Stim.OnsetSignalEnabled = True >>Stim.OnsetSignalPort = &H378 >>Stim.OnsetSignalData = 1 >> >> >>WritePort &h378, 0 >> >>the above code send triggers at the onset of the object "Stim". >> >>However, I am trying to figure out a way to send triggers at the time >>of response of "Stim". >> >>I would greatly appreciate all tips and advices from you. Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ahafri at gmail.com Tue Jun 28 20:46:51 2011 From: ahafri at gmail.com (Alon Hafri) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 13:46:51 -0700 Subject: eye tracking reading study Message-ID: Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 words. I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by a script. I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they could act as their own AOIs. Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly spaced. 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the text would be in one object so would appear normal. 3) Suggestions? Thanks! Alon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Jun 29 09:10:40 2011 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 10:10:40 +0100 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Here's my take: - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. Best, Mich * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 To: E-Prime Subject: eye tracking reading study Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 words. I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by a script. I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they could act as their own AOIs. Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly spaced. 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the text would be in one object so would appear normal. 3) Suggestions? Thanks! Alon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ahafri at gmail.com Wed Jun 29 14:47:24 2011 From: ahafri at gmail.com (Alon Hafri) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 07:47:24 -0700 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92F7ACB5AF2@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Thanks for your solutions! I'll respond to yours in order, below your text: On Jun 29, 5:10?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Here's my take: > - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. > Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. > This would definitely work (the font is called Courier New). But I do see your point below about wanting the AOIs to be a bit larger so things are accurately detected, and it may be hard to do that with a lot of words on screen. > - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. > Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly appreciate it. > - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: > 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway > 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway > 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. > Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an example of this? > - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. > Yes this I've done before (even for E-Prime experiments, when the AOIs were adjusted after running subjects) -- could work well. Again thanks for your help. > Best, > Mich > > * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: eye tracking reading study > > Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. > > I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for > Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I > would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 > words. > > I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image > position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with > using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as > AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will > vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and > on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for > every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by > a script. > > I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? > 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they > could act as their own AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it > could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly > spaced. > > 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have > transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the > text would be in one object so would appear normal. > > 3) Suggestions? > > Thanks! > Alon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Jun 29 16:49:12 2011 From: Michiel.Spape at nottingham.ac.uk (Michiel Spape) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:49:12 +0100 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Alon & List, Turns out I later decided to do no online eye-tracking at all, but in an old version, I still have the following bit of code: --------- Set theGazeData = CTobiiEyeTrackerResponseData( TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count) ) If Not theGazeData Is Nothing Then CurEye.x = theGazeData.CursorX CurEye.y = theGazeData.CursorY if c.GetAttrib("ShowEye") = "Yes" then donow = TekenCirkel (CurEye.X, CurEye.Y, c.GetAttrib ("BallSize")/2, "green") Set theGazeData = Nothing End If ---------- Which, if you have been through the Tobii code, you might notice is roughly based on the capture AOI code of an example of theirs. If you, or anyone else, goes through my code (I don't know whether the list now accepts attachments or not), notice how *AWFUL* my own code tends to be :). Embarrassing! Anyway, it does the trick. In 1g, attached, it takes the last bit of (i.e. TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count)), which contains CursorX and CursorY. If you want to drive a participant absolutely mad, do what I do above and show a little dot at the position of the (captured) fixation-position. It's always a bit off, so you will follow it and thus drive it away - a bit like having a speckle of dust in your eye. Re: attached files, notice 1g is the older version, 1i is the later one; and they probably only work if you have the Tobii installed, and have a similar system as ours. As to your questions: "Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly appreciate it." Sadly, it's a bit more difficult than Fix.Position - as above. But it can be done. The advantage, for instance, is that you could calculate the centre of words and figure out the distance between word-centre and gaze-position, which should be more accurate than using square AOIs. It's also plain cool, because it allows you to debug like my version above, using a dot on the screen :) It is, all in all, pretty good to figure out once, even if you later decide to abandon it. " Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an example of this?" No, I meant, if you have 3 conditions (for 1,2 or 3 words), then show one state depending on the condition. Or am I missing something and you want to use successive presentation of words? Anyway, I gather that a lot of people plainly do not see that slides can have states, in fact, I never did anything with them either until some point. It can, however, provide a lot of clarity, as it can keep your experiment relatively free from code. So, make three states with names OneWord, TwoWords, ThreeWords (this can be changed in the properties panel, for instance - not very clearly visible). In the slide's (i.e. not in the state's) property, set ActiveState to "[HowManyWords]" and in the list, have an attribute of HowManyWords, with again, the three names of states. Hope that helps! Best, Mich Michiel Spap? Research Fellow Perception & Action group University of Nottingham School of Psychology www.cognitology.eu -----Original Message----- From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri Sent: 29 June 2011 15:47 To: E-Prime Subject: Re: eye tracking reading study Hi Mich, Thanks for your solutions! I'll respond to yours in order, below your text: On Jun 29, 5:10?am, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi, > Here's my take: > - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. > Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. > This would definitely work (the font is called Courier New). But I do see your point below about wanting the AOIs to be a bit larger so things are accurately detected, and it may be hard to do that with a lot of words on screen. > - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. > Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly appreciate it. > - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: > 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway > 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway > 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. > Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an example of this? > - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. > Yes this I've done before (even for E-Prime experiments, when the AOIs were adjusted after running subjects) -- could work well. Again thanks for your help. > Best, > Mich > > * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: eye tracking reading study > > Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. > > I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for > Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I > would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 > words. > > I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image > position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with > using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as > AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will > vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and > on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for > every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by > a script. > > I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? > 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they > could act as their own AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it > could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly > spaced. > > 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have > transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. > Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the > text would be in one object so would appear normal. > > 3) Suggestions? > > Thanks! > Alon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment > may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: > you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the > University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Collision 1i.es Type: application/octet-stream Size: 248790 bytes Desc: Collision 1i.es URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Collision 1g.es Type: application/octet-stream Size: 239056 bytes Desc: Collision 1g.es URL: From j.browndyke at duke.edu Thu Jun 30 14:02:38 2011 From: j.browndyke at duke.edu (Jeffrey Browndyke) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:02:38 -0400 Subject: Jeff Browndyke is out of the office for the holidays. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting Wed 06/29/2011 and will not return until Tue 07/05/2011. I will respond to your message when I return. Will catch email remotely when I can, but I will be generally unable to respond until after 7/5. Happy 4th of July! Regards, Jeff Browndyke -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From janet.trammell at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 18:18:23 2011 From: janet.trammell at gmail.com (Janet Trammell) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:18:23 -0700 Subject: base timing of a trial on total time taken in previous trials--mismatch error? Message-ID: I am programming an experiment where the total time a person can take is 10 minutes (600000 ms) (to do 12 trials), with a maximum of 2 minutes per trial (the trial terminates and starts the next trial after 2 minutes). I have set the program to terminate the list if the total time is over 10 minutes, however there is a problem--say a person has taken 9:45 do to 7 trials, so they have 15 seconds left. BUT...on trial 8, the duration is still set to max 2 min--so a person can theoretically have a total of 11:45, not 10:00 before it terminates. So I need to have the program know that if more than 8 minutes (480000) has been used, the duration of the trial should be 600000-however much time has been used so far. I have tried to fix this by putting an attribute in the list object called "trial" which is just the number of the trial, and another attribute called "trialtime", which will be the duration of the slide object (where the stimulus/trial is presented). in the slide object properties, I have set timelimit to be the attribute "trialtime". Lastly, after each trial, the attribute "timertrial" is calculated, which essentially calculates the length of time taken for that trial and adds it to the previous time taken, so that this attribute is constantly updated to reflect the total time taken. All of this seems to work fine, and running through the program shows that "timertrial" is indeed calculating correctly and is recording in the edata file. the problem occurs, however, when I put all this together, and try to change the duration of the next trial based on the "timertrial" attribute. Here is my code: Using the inline statement below, I have set the first trial duration is 120 seconds, and every other trial after that the duration is calculated based on total time taken so far If c.GetAttrib ("trial") = 1 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", 120000 If c.GetAttrib ("trial") > 1 then If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", 600000 - c.getAttrib ("timertrial") If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", 120000 End If The problem is, the program cannot find the attribute "timertrial"--it calculates fine at the end of each trial, but when I start a new trial (within the same list), it does not have a value yet for timertrial, since that is calculated at the END of the trial. How do I get it to pull the value of "timertrial" from the previous trial and use it as an attribute in the NEXT trial? I am sure this is simple, but I can't seem to get anywhere. Also, Note: I have tried using this code instead: If c.GetAttrib ("Trial") > 1 then if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", 600000 - LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", 120000 End If And I keep getting type mismatch errors, which should be easy to resolve, but this one keep stumping me. Again, I'm sure this is something simple, but for some reason I can't get it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From ahafri at gmail.com Thu Jun 30 21:08:02 2011 From: ahafri at gmail.com (Alon Hafri) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:08:02 -0700 Subject: eye tracking reading study In-Reply-To: <09DAEA8BC192C94EB62C8E71FC35A5D92F7ACB5C05@EXCHANGE3.ad.nottingham.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Mich, Thanks for the reply and the scripts! It looks quite complex so it will take me a while to get through it all, but I did look over some of the InLine and took a practice run. I am afraid I still don't quite see the advantage of calculating the hits and misses using the word center and distance versus hittest and AOIs as defined by the text or image rectangle. I'm not sure how the word center/distance method would work since for example the distance from the center of the word "deli" will be different from the center of the word "delicious" horizontally but not vertically. Is the calculation routine for using the word center/distance something more complex than the distance formula? With rectangular AOIs and hittest, you could size the AOI with enough buffer space around the text that it will catch looks near to the word. Perhaps I'm missing something? Thanks for the code detailing displaying the eyegaze in real time, that is very useful! I also didn't know much about Slides but I like your idea for using them to implement different conditions with minimal code. Best, Alon On Jun 29, 12:49?pm, Michiel Spape wrote: > Hi Alon & List, > Turns out I later decided to do no online eye-tracking at all, but in an old version, I still have the following bit of code: > --------- > Set theGazeData = CTobiiEyeTrackerResponseData( TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count) ?) > If Not theGazeData Is Nothing Then > ? ? ? ? CurEye.x = theGazeData.CursorX > ? ? ? ? CurEye.y = theGazeData.CursorY > ? ? ? ? if c.GetAttrib("ShowEye") = "Yes" then donow = TekenCirkel (CurEye.X, CurEye.Y, c.GetAttrib ("BallSize")/2, "green") > ? ? ? ? Set theGazeData = Nothing > End If > ---------- > > Which, if you have been through the Tobii code, you might notice is roughly based on the capture AOI code of an example of theirs. If you, or anyone else, goes through my code (I don't know whether the list now accepts attachments or not), notice how *AWFUL* my own code tends to be :). Embarrassing! > > Anyway, it does the trick. In 1g, attached, it takes the last bit of (i.e. TobiiEyeTracker.History(TobiiEyeTracker.History.Count)), which contains CursorX and CursorY. If you want to drive a participant absolutely mad, do what I do above and show a little dot at the position of the (captured) fixation-position. It's always a bit off, so you will follow it and thus drive it away - a bit like having a speckle of dust in your eye. Re: attached files, notice 1g is the older version, 1i is the later one; and they probably only work if you have the Tobii installed, and have a similar system as ours. > > As to your questions: > > "Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over > solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the > calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could > call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it > just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly > appreciate it." > > Sadly, it's a bit more difficult than Fix.Position - as above. But it can be done. The advantage, for instance, is that you could calculate the centre of words and figure out the distance between word-centre and gaze-position, which should be more accurate than using square AOIs. It's also plain cool, because it allows you to debug like my version above, using a dot on the screen :) It is, all in all, pretty good to figure out once, even if you later decide to abandon it. > > " Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the > first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the > second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used > more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an > example of this?" > > No, I meant, if you have 3 conditions (for 1,2 or 3 words), then show one state depending on the condition. Or am I missing something and you want to use successive presentation of words? > Anyway, I gather that a lot of people plainly do not see that slides can have states, in fact, I never did anything with them either until some point. It can, however, provide a lot of clarity, as it can keep your experiment relatively free from code. So, make three states with names OneWord, TwoWords, ThreeWords (this can be changed in the properties panel, for instance - not very clearly visible). In the slide's (i.e. not in the state's) property, set ActiveState to "[HowManyWords]" and in the list, have an attribute of HowManyWords, with again, the three names of states. > > Hope that helps! > Best, > Mich > > Michiel Spap? > Research Fellow > Perception & Action group > University of Nottingham > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > -----Original Message----- > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > Sent: 29 June 2011 15:47 > To: E-Prime > Subject: Re: eye tracking reading study > > Hi Mich, > > Thanks for your solutions! I'll respond to yours in order, below your > text: > > On Jun 29, 5:10?am, Michiel Spape > wrote: > > Hi, > > Here's my take: > > - given that E-Prime uses, I think, a font with constant letter symbol size (I forgot the official name, but the point is that an I takes as much space as a W - as in the font you're probably reading this), it is not that difficult to line them up, as you say. Say, one letter is 12 pixels (you can test that by trial and error), then the word WORDS is 60 pixels. If I want to have two AOIs for the words TWO WORDS, then, as per your second possible way to do this, I'd just show that as one slideText on the slide and make two AOIs. Given that our screen is 640x480 by default (or whatever you have), the we print the TWO WORDS as one slideText in the centre. TWO WORDS is 60 + 48 (TWO plus space makes 4x12=48 pixels) = 108 pixels and should therefore be positioned LEFT at 266 to RIGHT at 374* (LEFT: 320 (screen width centre) - 54 (i.e. 108 / 2) = 266 and RIGHT: 320 + 54 = 374). Thus, your left AIO, if you align it left, can be placed at 266, and should be 36 pixels (since the space shouldn't be included). The AIO right should be aligned right, and can be placed at 374. > > Depending on your knowledge of E-Prime (and you'd need some to get Tobii to work properly in E-Prime), that shouldn't be too hard to programme, but let me know if you need help. > > This would definitely work (the font is called Courier New). But I do > see your point below about wanting the AOIs to be a bit larger so > things are accurately detected, and it may be hard to do that with a > lot of words on screen. > > > - You could also do away with all the AOIs as programmed by the Tobii team and just look at the fixation position on the fly - that is, just take the fix.position, calculate distance to each word and figure out which is the likely candidate. I have some script for that, if you're interested. > > Is there an advantage of using solution two (fix.position) over > solution one? Using the fix.position, you would still end up doing the > calculations as in the first solution. Also, I didn't know you could > call the fixation position within an InLine, that's helpful -- is it > just "fix.position"? If you have that script, I would greatly > appreciate it. > > > - Alternatively, have you thought about just NOT lining up the words? That is, if you have a slide with 3 states, state 1 with one word, 2 with two words, 3 with three words, and put words on slide 2, for instance, at 35% and 65%, then this will be a LOT easier. I can see the point that it doesn't look right, but I think there's plenty that can be said for this experimentally: > > 1. you probably want to control for word length anyway > > 2. you probably want to control for saccade length anyway > > 3. Accurate as Tobii *can* be, I've often found I wanted my AOIs quite a bit larger so that things are accurately detected. > > Are you saying to have the words displayed successively, so say, the > first two words of the sentence on one state, then the next two on the > second state, etc.? How would the states advance? (I've never used > more than the default state, so forgive my ignorance). Do you have an > example of this? > > > - Finally, I've later come to realise it is a lot easier to just don't do much with Tobii in E-Prime and analyse the "gazedata" separately (in matlab). That is, it's pretty easy to find out later on what word people were fixating (at least, roughly), given that you at least save their positions on the screen. > > Yes this I've done before (even for E-Prime experiments, when the AOIs > were adjusted after running subjects) -- could work well. Again thanks > for your help. > > > Best, > > Mich > > > * obviously, this would make the region one pixel too large, but I'm not compensating for that to simplify matters. > > > Michiel Spap? > > Research Fellow > > Perception & Action group > > University of Nottingham > > School of Psychologywww.cognitology.eu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alon Hafri > > Sent: 28 June 2011 21:47 > > To: E-Prime > > Subject: eye tracking reading study > > > Hi, wondering if someone in the group can help me out. > > > I am creating an E-Prime experiment using the E-Prime Extensions for > > Tobii. For each trial, the participant will read a sentence, and I > > would like to record reading times for each window of size 1 to 3 > > words. > > > I have experience with using list attributes to set Slide Image > > position (and therefore AOI position) at runtime, as well as with > > using transparent Slide Images overtop of larger images to act as > > AOIs, but I've never done a reading study before. Since the words will > > vary in length for each trial, but will need to be evenly spaced (and > > on multiple lines conceivably), it would be great if position for > > every window would not have to be specified but could be determined by > > a script. > > > I can think of a few solutions, but perhaps someone has an easier one? > > 1) create a Slide Text object for each word (or window), and so they > > could act as their own AOIs. > > Drawbacks: You would have to specify locations for each one, and it > > could be tricky lining them up appropriately so words are evenly > > spaced. > > > 2) Have one Slide Text object for the whole sentence and have > > transparent AOIs overtop as the AOIs. > > Drawbacks: You would still have to specify locations for each, but the > > text would be in one object so would appear normal. > > > 3) Suggestions? > > > Thanks! > > Alon > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. > > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. ? Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. ?Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not > > ... > > read more ? > > ?Collision 1i.es > 328KViewDownload > > ?Collision 1g.es > 315KViewDownload -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en. From mcfarla9 at msu.edu Thu Jun 30 21:26:58 2011 From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:26:58 -0400 Subject: base timing of a trial on total time taken in previous trials--mismatch error? In-Reply-To: <1b3108f8-cb3e-4d0d-96a1-42e686c7a955@a15g2000pri.googlegro ups.com> Message-ID: This got addressed on the PST Forum (http://www.pstnet.com/forum/Topic5419-7-1.aspx ), but you did well to post here as well -- generally I respond only here on the E-Prime Group, and now I can post a few more details and provide code with proper indentation. First, as you might find explained in Chapter 4 of the User's Guide that came with E-Prime, and have instead discovered the hard way, attributes propogate only downward through logging levels, they do not persist as you pop back up to higher levels, and as a result they do not persist as you pop up a level and then back down to the same level, as happens at the end of a Procedure run by a List. IOW, despite some appearance, "attributes" are *not* "variables", and they will not fulfill the role of variables. Variables and attributes each have their own roles. So, as explained on the Forum, in short you need to use a global variable. As explained in Chapter 4 of the User's Guide, you do that in the User tab of the Script view. Define a variable such as TRemaining, e.g., Dim TRemaining as Long Then use that global variable to keep track of the value from trial to trial, as in ... well, when I tried to write out the code it didn't seem quite right, and I have to run off and catch a bus now. Maybe you or someone else can now sort this out based on the clues given so far. -- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder At 6/30/2011 02:18 PM Thursday, you wrote: >I am programming an experiment where the total time a person can take >is 10 minutes (600000 ms) (to do 12 trials), with a maximum of 2 >minutes per trial (the trial terminates and starts the next trial >after 2 minutes). I have set the program to terminate the list if the >total time is over 10 minutes, however there is a problem--say a >person has taken 9:45 do to 7 trials, so they have 15 seconds left. >BUT...on trial 8, the duration is still set to max 2 min--so a person >can theoretically have a total of 11:45, not 10:00 before it >terminates. So I need to have the program know that if more than 8 >minutes (480000) has been used, the duration of the trial should be >600000-however much time has been used so far. > >I have tried to fix this by putting an attribute in the list object >called "trial" which is just the number of the trial, and another >attribute called "trialtime", which will be the duration of the slide >object (where the stimulus/trial is presented). in the slide object >properties, I have set timelimit to be the attribute "trialtime". >Lastly, after each trial, the attribute "timertrial" is calculated, >which essentially calculates the length of time taken for that trial >and adds it to the previous time taken, so that this attribute is >constantly updated to reflect the total time taken. All of this seems >to work fine, and running through the program shows that "timertrial" >is indeed calculating correctly and is recording in the edata file. >the problem occurs, however, when I put all this together, and try to >change the duration of the next trial based on the "timertrial" >attribute. Here is my code: > >Using the inline statement below, I have set the first trial duration >is 120 seconds, and every other trial after that the duration is >calculated based on total time taken so far > >If c.GetAttrib ("trial") = 1 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", 120000 >If c.GetAttrib ("trial") > 1 then >If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then c.setAttrib "trialtime", >600000 - c.getAttrib ("timertrial") >If c.getAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then c.SetAttrib "trialtime", >120000 >End If > >The problem is, the program cannot find the attribute "timertrial"--it >calculates fine at the end of each trial, but when I start a new trial >(within the same list), it does not have a value yet for timertrial, >since that is calculated at the END of the trial. How do I get it to >pull the value of "timertrial" from the previous trial and use it as >an attribute in the NEXT trial? I am sure this is simple, but I can't >seem to get anywhere. > >Also, Note: I have tried using this code instead: >If c.GetAttrib ("Trial") > 1 then >if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") >= 480000 then >c.setAttrib "trialtime", 600000 - LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib >("timertrial") >if LetterSetList.GetPrevAttrib ("timertrial") < 480000 then >c.setAttrib "trialtime", 120000 >End If > >And I keep getting type mismatch errors, which should be easy to >resolve, but this one keep stumping me. Again, I'm sure this is >something simple, but for some reason I can't get it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group. To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en.