From dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 13:47:05 2012
From: dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com (Diana Laura Rosa Leyra)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 09:47:05 -0400
Subject: Using a joystick as a response and defining correct response.
In-Reply-To: <AAC28C42-8F0D-4424-B104-BDEF8768192C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.1.NOV.2012.094705.0400.>

Thanks Pip. I'll try this!

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Pip <pipgriffiths86 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure that you can do this automatically, but if you code some
> inline to store the final x co ord of the cursor then you can look at this
> in the output file and use filters to determine whether the correct answer
> was given. You can also set up a screen that will respond if the answer was
> "correct" through using this method.
>
> Essentially you set a variable, get EPRime to write the x co ord to that
> variable and then get a conditional statement to read that file and
> feedback the necessary response to the participant
>
> Hope this helped
>
> Pip
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:00, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> We would like to use a joystick as a response device. Our task requires
> participants to judge whether the hand they see on the screen is a right or
> left hand. We'd like for them to respond with the joystick. Basically, I am
> trying to define a correct answer in terms of the position of the joystick
> at the time of response. Anyone have any ideas on how this would work and
> if it would work at all?
>
> I am working with EPrime 2.0 Professional and know that I have to use a
> bit of code, but am unsure as to where or how to use it.
>
> Thank you,
> Diana
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/1EHfBZClU6kJ.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
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> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>



-- 
-------------------------------
Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 17:24:06 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:24:06 -0700
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <5090365b.e696320a.6143.6abfSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.102406.0700.>

David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through the Help 
section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.

Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start as 
soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for 
> now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic 
> Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with 
> ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and 
> if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in 
> inline code. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
> /---- 
> Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> take any and all questions at 
> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
> strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> ), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> \---- 
>
>
> At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >basically I want it to go something like this: 
> > 
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this 
> >variable T1) 
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this 
> >variable T2) 
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time 
> >(will name variable T3) 
> > 
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1 
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1 
> > 
> > 
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >Hello all, 
> > 
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into 
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. 
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down 
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond 
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to 
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like 
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and 
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I 
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My 
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of 
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the 
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it. 
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit 
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably 
> >nowhere near where I need to be: 
> > 
> >Dim kbState As Integer 
> > 
> >Do 
> > 
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _ 
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
> > 
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then 
> >Clock.Read 
> > 
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then 
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime 
>
>

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From helminenterhi at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 19:01:01 2012
From: helminenterhi at gmail.com (terhi helminen)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:01:01 +0200
Subject: Using a joystick as a response and defining correct response.
In-Reply-To: <CADvFmW7wY4j_zoT9oh9LRu7k+J3_v4WH3czAXZZY38SG7+PJLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.210101.0200.>

Hi,

I have recently made a task where participant has to answer with joystick
(pulling it backward or forward).  The Inline code below helped me to make
an appropriate code, perhaps it helps you too...

(from
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/e-prime/joystick$20as$20response$20device/e-prime/ww6C02LZ8nY/qDT5rsZrerkJ
 )

----

Dim nInitY As Integer
Dim nCurrentY As Integer
Dim nDiff As Integer

nInitY = Joystick.CursorY

Do
   nCurrentY = Joystick.CursorY
   nDiff = nInitY - nCurrentY

Loop Until Abs(nDiff) > 50

Stimulus.RTTime = Clock.Read
Stimulus.RT = Stimulus.RTTime - Stimulus.OnsetTime

If nDiff > 0 Then
   Stimulus.RESP = "Up"
Else
   Stimulus.RESP = "Down"
End If
----
As I also wanted to give a feedback based on subjects answer, I used
contingent branching based on the response. (See the example in
http://www.pstnet.com/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=3 )

Hope this helps!
- Terhi


On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <
dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Pip. I'll try this!
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Pip <pipgriffiths86 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that you can do this automatically, but if you code some
>> inline to store the final x co ord of the cursor then you can look at this
>> in the output file and use filters to determine whether the correct answer
>> was given. You can also set up a screen that will respond if the answer was
>> "correct" through using this method.
>>
>> Essentially you set a variable, get EPRime to write the x co ord to that
>> variable and then get a conditional statement to read that file and
>> feedback the necessary response to the participant
>>
>> Hope this helped
>>
>> Pip
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:00, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> We would like to use a joystick as a response device. Our task requires
>> participants to judge whether the hand they see on the screen is a right or
>> left hand. We'd like for them to respond with the joystick. Basically, I am
>> trying to define a correct answer in terms of the position of the joystick
>> at the time of response. Anyone have any ideas on how this would work and
>> if it would work at all?
>>
>> I am working with EPrime 2.0 Professional and know that I have to use a
>> bit of code, but am unsure as to where or how to use it.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Diana
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/1EHfBZClU6kJ.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------
> Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
> dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
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> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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From dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 19:18:14 2012
From: dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com (Diana Laura Rosa Leyra)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:18:14 -0400
Subject: Using a joystick as a response and defining correct response.
In-Reply-To: <CALBveQtaJs7idqV74z8gm5rmr-+7KEJjkv5JcJ_nR++Tj4NK2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.151814.0400.>

Thank you! I will try this out. I have a similar code and am now trying to
define what would be a right  and a left response. We will see! Thanks!

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:01 PM, terhi helminen <helminenterhi at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have recently made a task where participant has to answer with joystick
> (pulling it backward or forward).  The Inline code below helped me to make
> an appropriate code, perhaps it helps you too...
>
> (from
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/e-prime/joystick$20as$20response$20device/e-prime/ww6C02LZ8nY/qDT5rsZrerkJ
>  )
>
> ----
>
> Dim nInitY As Integer
> Dim nCurrentY As Integer
> Dim nDiff As Integer
>
> nInitY = Joystick.CursorY
>
> Do
>    nCurrentY = Joystick.CursorY
>    nDiff = nInitY - nCurrentY
>
> Loop Until Abs(nDiff) > 50
>
> Stimulus.RTTime = Clock.Read
> Stimulus.RT = Stimulus.RTTime - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
> If nDiff > 0 Then
>    Stimulus.RESP = "Up"
> Else
>    Stimulus.RESP = "Down"
> End If
> ----
> As I also wanted to give a feedback based on subjects answer, I used
> contingent branching based on the response. (See the example in
> http://www.pstnet.com/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=3 )
>
> Hope this helps!
> - Terhi
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <
> dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Pip. I'll try this!
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Pip <pipgriffiths86 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure that you can do this automatically, but if you code some
>>> inline to store the final x co ord of the cursor then you can look at this
>>> in the output file and use filters to determine whether the correct answer
>>> was given. You can also set up a screen that will respond if the answer was
>>> "correct" through using this method.
>>>
>>> Essentially you set a variable, get EPRime to write the x co ord to that
>>> variable and then get a conditional statement to read that file and
>>> feedback the necessary response to the participant
>>>
>>> Hope this helped
>>>
>>> Pip
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:00, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> We would like to use a joystick as a response device. Our task requires
>>> participants to judge whether the hand they see on the screen is a right or
>>> left hand. We'd like for them to respond with the joystick. Basically, I am
>>> trying to define a correct answer in terms of the position of the joystick
>>> at the time of response. Anyone have any ideas on how this would work and
>>> if it would work at all?
>>>
>>> I am working with EPrime 2.0 Professional and know that I have to use a
>>> bit of code, but am unsure as to where or how to use it.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Diana
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/1EHfBZClU6kJ.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------------
>> Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
>> dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>



-- 
-------------------------------
Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Fri Nov  2 20:56:53 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:56:53 -0400
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <3cd43d68-1797-4c8a-9a36-b0ee37b07701@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.165653.0400.>

Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your 
stimulus, this will almost never be exact, and is in any case 
superfluous.  Suppose your text stimulus is named StimText.  Then 
StimText.OnsetTime already tells you the onset time of the stimulus, 
you should use that (see 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917 ).

If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you 
have StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText 
launch its own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be 
the appropriate RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)




At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
>the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.
>
>Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
>as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?
>
>On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for
>now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic
>Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with
>ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and
>if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in
>inline code.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >basically I want it to go something like this:
> >
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this
> >variable T1)
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this
> >variable T2)
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time
> >(will name variable T3)
> >
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with.
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it.
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably
> >nowhere near where I need to be:
> >
> >Dim kbState As Integer
> >
> >Do
> >
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then
> >
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> >Clock.Read
> >
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion on the web visit 
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Mon Nov  5 16:25:12 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:25:12 -0800
Subject: Feedback type
Message-ID: <MON.5.NOV.2012.082512.0800.>

Hi All

I am having a bit of problem with my program. I am creating an
experiment that has 4 blocks and 80 trials within the 4 blocks. Now,
after each trial I need there to be feedback of either positive 'well
done' or negative 'try harder'. I am going to create to different
experiments for each of the 2 feedback types (positive and negative)
and 4 versions of each type. The problem I keep encountering is that
when I add the feedback slide and run my experiment, all is well until
the feedback is given after each trial which reads 'no response'. I
have set the rresponse to either S for same or D for different
depending on where on screen the image is placed and yet i am not able
to program 1 type of feedback.

I want to know if there is a way for me to program 4 versions to state
'well done' even when the participants have answered a question wrong
whilst still gathering their real rresults and the same for the
neagtive feedback version.

Any help will be much appreciated.

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From sunkeyi at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  6 03:32:57 2012
From: sunkeyi at hotmail.com (Sun)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:32:57 -0800
Subject: drag an object
Message-ID: <MON.5.NOV.2012.193257.0800.>

Hello everyone

I am trying to design an experiment which allows people to move an
object from one bar to another (quite like the click and drag sample,
but bars are vertically located), I have 20 bars, so one can only move
one step at a time, any skipping would force the object return to its
target bar, I modified click and drag but so far the problem is that I
can only move the object to the first bar, the object cannot be moved
any more after any attempt to move to the second one (whether from the
1st bar or jump from the baseline). Does anyone know how to make them
only move one step at a time (force the object land on the target area
if people try to skip bars)?

Thanks

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From mspape at cognitology.eu  Tue Nov  6 11:18:40 2012
From: mspape at cognitology.eu (Michiel Sovijarvi-Spape)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:18:40 +0200
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <509433c0.e696320a.4c3f.231bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.131840.0200.>

Hi,
Just to add, that depends on whatever she means with "basic text" - I'd
agree with you that normally, you'd think this is a textdisplay, but what if
she meant "some text displayed using e-basic"? In other words, canvas,
right?
Generally, the point is that the vertical sync is messed up if you'd just
say
10 c.setattrib textonsettime, clock.read
20 write text to canvas
Because it can take long and short to write things actually to the screen
(also depending on how much you put there). Now, there's two tricks:
1) Display.waitforverticalblank makes sure you have the synchronisation
working (i.e. things aren't appearing halfway)
2) use a second canvas first to write everything to, then copy this canvas
to the active display. The first bit (writing stuff) takes much longer than
just copying the already made pictures.

Does that help? All in all, once upon a time, I loved doing everything in
canvas things, but nowadays (perhaps with less time on my hands), I have as
a rule of thumb: if it CAN be done without code, then do that instead; if it
CAN'T be done without LOTS OF code, there might be better software around
for the purposes. I think this is also a pretty good rule for those with
questions regarding dragging and dropping and whatnot. 
Best,

Michiel

-----Original Message-----
From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of David McFarlane
Sent: 02 November 2012 22:57
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com; e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: key press/release & RT

Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your stimulus, this
will almost never be exact, and is in any case superfluous.  Suppose your
text stimulus is named StimText.  Then StimText.OnsetTime already tells you
the onset time of the stimulus, you should use that (see
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917
).

If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you have
StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText launch its
own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be the appropriate
RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)




At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
>the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.
>
>Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
>as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?
>
>On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for
>now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic
>Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with
>ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and
>if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in
>inline code.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.
msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstne
t.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >basically I want it to go something like this:
> >
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this
> >variable T1)
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this
> >variable T2)
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time
> >(will name variable T3)
> >
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with.
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it.
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably
> >nowhere near where I need to be:
> >
> >Dim kbState As Integer
> >
> >Do
> >
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then
> >
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> >Clock.Read
> >
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion on the web visit 
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>https://groups.goog
le.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/
opt_out.
>
>

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From mspape at cognitology.eu  Tue Nov  6 10:52:19 2012
From: mspape at cognitology.eu (Michiel Sovijarvi-Spape)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:52:19 +0200
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <509433c0.e696320a.4c3f.231bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.125219.0200.>

-----Original Message-----
From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of David McFarlane
Sent: 02 November 2012 22:57
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com; e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: key press/release & RT

Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your stimulus, this
will almost never be exact, and is in any case superfluous.  Suppose your
text stimulus is named StimText.  Then StimText.OnsetTime already tells you
the onset time of the stimulus, you should use that (see
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917
).

If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you have
StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText launch its
own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be the appropriate
RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)




At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
>the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.
>
>Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
>as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?
>
>On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for
>now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic
>Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with
>ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and
>if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in
>inline code.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.
msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstne
t.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >basically I want it to go something like this:
> >
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this
> >variable T1)
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this
> >variable T2)
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time
> >(will name variable T3)
> >
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with.
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it.
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably
> >nowhere near where I need to be:
> >
> >Dim kbState As Integer
> >
> >Do
> >
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then
> >
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> >Clock.Read
> >
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion on the web visit 
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>https://groups.goog
le.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/
opt_out.
>
>

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Tue Nov  6 14:25:27 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 06:25:27 -0800
Subject: feedback
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.062527.0800.>

Hi All

I want to know how I can only measure one type of feedback e.g.
positive or negative for each question.
In 1 experiment I am only measuring positive feedback so correct
answers will receive various texts ranging from 'well done,' to 'that
is great'. If the participant gets an answer wrong no feedback is
given.
In exp.2 I am measuring negative feedback, so incorrect answers will
receive various texts from 'try harder' or ' that was ok'. If the
participant gets an answer right they receive no feedback.

Is there a way that this can be done??

I have tried everything and read all the manuals but it has been
unsuccessful.

Thank you.

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 18:05:22 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:05:22 -0800
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <040201cdbc10$864c2c10$92e48430$@cognitology.eu>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.100522.0800.>

Michiel, thanks for your input. I had not considered the time it would take 
to write things. I will look into this.

On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 6:19:03 AM UTC-5, Michiel Sovijärvi-Spapé 
wrote:
>
> Hi, 
> Just to add, that depends on whatever she means with "basic text" - I'd 
> agree with you that normally, you'd think this is a textdisplay, but what 
> if 
> she meant "some text displayed using e-basic"? In other words, canvas, 
> right? 
> Generally, the point is that the vertical sync is messed up if you'd just 
> say 
> 10 c.setattrib textonsettime, clock.read 
> 20 write text to canvas 
> Because it can take long and short to write things actually to the screen 
> (also depending on how much you put there). Now, there's two tricks: 
> 1) Display.waitforverticalblank makes sure you have the synchronisation 
> working (i.e. things aren't appearing halfway) 
> 2) use a second canvas first to write everything to, then copy this canvas 
> to the active display. The first bit (writing stuff) takes much longer 
> than 
> just copying the already made pictures. 
>
> Does that help? All in all, once upon a time, I loved doing everything in 
> canvas things, but nowadays (perhaps with less time on my hands), I have 
> as 
> a rule of thumb: if it CAN be done without code, then do that instead; if 
> it 
> CAN'T be done without LOTS OF code, there might be better software around 
> for the purposes. I think this is also a pretty good rule for those with 
> questions regarding dragging and dropping and whatnot. 
> Best, 
>
> Michiel 
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:> [mailto:
> e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>] On Behalf 
> Of David McFarlane 
> Sent: 02 November 2012 22:57 
> To: e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>; e-p... at googlegroups.com<javascript:> 
> Subject: Re: key press/release & RT 
>
> Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your stimulus, 
> this 
> will almost never be exact, and is in any case superfluous.  Suppose your 
> text stimulus is named StimText.  Then StimText.OnsetTime already tells 
> you 
> the onset time of the stimulus, you should use that (see 
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917 
> ). 
>
> If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you have 
> StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText launch its 
> own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be the appropriate 
> RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
>
>
> At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
> >the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted. 
> > 
> >Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
> >as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my 
> stimulus)? 
> > 
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote: 
> >Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for 
> >now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic 
> >Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with 
> >ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and 
> >if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in 
> >inline code. 
> > 
> >----- 
> >David McFarlane 
> >E-Prime training 
> >online: 
> ><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>
> http://psychology. 
> msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> > 
> >Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
> >(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
> > 
> >/---- 
> >Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> >take any and all questions at 
> ><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>
> http://support.pstne 
> t.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
> >, and they 
> >strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> >much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> >it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> >(<
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683> 
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> > 
> >), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> >channel 
> >(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
> >) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> >though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> >the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> >\---- 
> > 
> > 
> >At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >basically I want it to go something like this: 
> > > 
> > >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this 
> > >variable T1) 
> > >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this 
> > >variable T2) 
> > >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time 
> > >(will name variable T3) 
> > > 
> > >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1 
> > >MT (movement time) = T3-T1 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >Hello all, 
> > > 
> > >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into 
> > >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. 
> > >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down 
> > >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond 
> > >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to 
> > >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like 
> > >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and 
> > >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I 
> > >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My 
> > >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of 
> > >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the 
> > >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it. 
> > >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit 
> > >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably 
> > >nowhere near where I need to be: 
> > > 
> > >Dim kbState As Integer 
> > > 
> > >Do 
> > > 
> > >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _ 
> > >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
> > > 
> > >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then 
> > >Clock.Read 
> > > 
> > >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then 
> > >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime 
> > 
> >-- 
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >Groups "E-Prime" group. 
> >To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com<javascript:>. 
>
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> >e-prime+u... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> >To view this discussion on the web visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>
> https://groups.goog 
> le.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ. 
> >For more options, visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> https://groups.google.com/groups/ 
> opt_out. 
> > 
> > 
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "E-Prime" group. 
> To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> e-prime+u... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
>
>
>

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 18:03:02 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:03:02 -0800
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <509433c0.e696320a.4c3f.231bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.100302.0800.>

David, as always, thank you for your helpful suggestions. I will look more 
into this.

On Friday, November 2, 2012 4:57:38 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your 
> stimulus, this will almost never be exact, and is in any case 
> superfluous.  Suppose your text stimulus is named StimText.  Then 
> StimText.OnsetTime already tells you the onset time of the stimulus, 
> you should use that (see 
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917). 
>
> If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you 
> have StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText 
> launch its own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be 
> the appropriate RT for the release response relative to the onset of 
> StimText. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
>
>
> At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
> >the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted. 
> > 
> >Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
> >as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my 
> stimulus)? 
> > 
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote: 
> >Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for 
> >now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic 
> >Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with 
> >ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and 
> >if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in 
> >inline code. 
> > 
> >----- 
> >David McFarlane 
> >E-Prime training 
> >online: 
> ><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>
> http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> > 
> >Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
> >(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
> > 
> >/---- 
> >Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> >take any and all questions at 
> ><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>
> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
> >, and they 
> >strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> >much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> >it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> >(<
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> > 
> >), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> >channel 
> >(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
> >) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> >though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> >the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> >\---- 
> > 
> > 
> >At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >basically I want it to go something like this: 
> > > 
> > >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this 
> > >variable T1) 
> > >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this 
> > >variable T2) 
> > >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time 
> > >(will name variable T3) 
> > > 
> > >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1 
> > >MT (movement time) = T3-T1 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >Hello all, 
> > > 
> > >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into 
> > >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. 
> > >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down 
> > >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond 
> > >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to 
> > >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like 
> > >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and 
> > >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I 
> > >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My 
> > >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of 
> > >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the 
> > >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it. 
> > >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit 
> > >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably 
> > >nowhere near where I need to be: 
> > > 
> > >Dim kbState As Integer 
> > > 
> > >Do 
> > > 
> > >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _ 
> > >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
> > > 
> > >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then 
> > >Clock.Read 
> > > 
> > >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then 
> > >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime 
> > 
> >-- 
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >Groups "E-Prime" group. 
> >To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com<javascript:>. 
>
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> >e-prime+u... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> >To view this discussion on the web visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ. 
> >For more options, visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
> > 
> > 
>
>

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 21:07:29 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:07:29 +0100
Subject: feedback
In-Reply-To: <3957b351-f7f1-4a77-b968-efc94cc8e204@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.220729.0100.>

hi,

you would probably like to do this using a slide object containing the
required states (tabs). Then, use a small piece of inline script just
before the slide to set the ActiveState property of the slide to make sure
the correct state is presented. An empty state can be used if no feedback
is required. (Possibly setting the slide duration to a smaller value in
this case)

cheers
paul



2012/11/6 pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk <pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk>

> Hi All
>
> I want to know how I can only measure one type of feedback e.g.
> positive or negative for each question.
> In 1 experiment I am only measuring positive feedback so correct
> answers will receive various texts ranging from 'well done,' to 'that
> is great'. If the participant gets an answer wrong no feedback is
> given.
> In exp.2 I am measuring negative feedback, so incorrect answers will
> receive various texts from 'try harder' or ' that was ok'. If the
> participant gets an answer right they receive no feedback.
>
> Is there a way that this can be done??
>
> I have tried everything and read all the manuals but it has been
> unsuccessful.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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From xmurio at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 21:46:16 2012
From: xmurio at gmail.com (junjunz)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:46:16 -0800
Subject: localization with the mouse
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.134616.0800.>

Hi all,

     I'm trying to move a circle (as a cursor) vertically on the screen 
with the mouse. That is, move the circle up and down only. This is the code 
I used for this:

Dim cnvs As Canvas
Set cnvs = Display.Canvas

cnvs.Clear
cnvs.PenWidth = 5

Mouse.SetCursorPos Display.XRes/2, Display.YRes/2
cnvs.Circle Display.XRes/2, Display.YRes/2, 7

Do While (Mouse.Buttons <> ebMouseButton1)

Display.WaitForVerticalBlank
cnvs.Clear
cnvs.Circle Display.XRes/2, Mouse.CursorY, 7
sleep 20
Loop

The code works. However, when the circle is moved to the upper part of the 
screen (close to the edge of the screen), the circle starts to flash. If 
'sleep 20' is erased, the circle would be invisible when moved close to the 
upper edge of the screen. But it is totally normal if the circle is moved 
to the lower part of the screen. I'm wondering why it happens? Is there a 
better way to control the circle vertically with the mouse? Thanks so much!

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 01:56:43 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:56:43 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.175643.0800.>

I just want to make sure that I understand how the cumulative timing works. 
For example, say you had a trial procedure with several slides but that 
began with an inline that was causing onset delays (for the first slide).  
Then you could set the timing of that first slide to cumulative and the 
delay will be  absorbed by that slides total duration time setting.  
Meanwhile, the rest of the slides in the procedure can be left on the event 
timing setting, since they have no onset delays.  So, as long as the first 
slide is, for example, just a blank pause or something, then cumulative 
timing would work well because the total blank screen time would remain the 
same at the beginning of the procedure.  Do I have this right?

thank you for any assistance/reassurance!

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From sunkeyi at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  7 02:40:36 2012
From: sunkeyi at hotmail.com (Sun)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:40:36 -0800
Subject: drag an object
In-Reply-To: <0296bb20-27aa-456d-848c-5a954d61c980@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.184036.0800.>

I think I just find out what the problem is, when I move the object into 
these boxes,  the boxes are transparent, but in fact they are opaque even 
it says 'transparent' in properties, does anyone know why?
 
Thanks
在 2012年11月6日星期二UTC+13下午4时32分59秒，Sun写道：

> Hello everyone 
>
> I am trying to design an experiment which allows people to move an 
> object from one bar to another (quite like the click and drag sample, 
> but bars are vertically located), I have 20 bars, so one can only move 
> one step at a time, any skipping would force the object return to its 
> target bar, I modified click and drag but so far the problem is that I 
> can only move the object to the first bar, the object cannot be moved 
> any more after any attempt to move to the second one (whether from the 
> 1st bar or jump from the baseline). Does anyone know how to make them 
> only move one step at a time (force the object land on the target area 
> if people try to skip bars)? 
>
> Thanks 
>

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From sunkeyi at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  7 02:58:56 2012
From: sunkeyi at hotmail.com (Sun)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:58:56 -0800
Subject: drag an object
In-Reply-To: <ec68ca52-a077-4a5b-a669-2c6a221c0ded@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.185856.0800.>

Just release how stupid the question is :p

On Nov 7, 3:40 pm, Sun <sunk... at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think I just find out what the problem is, when I move the object into
> these boxes,  the boxes are transparent, but in fact they are opaque even
> it says 'transparent' in properties, does anyone know why?
>
> Thanks
> >
>
>
> > Hello everyone
>
> > I am trying to design an experiment which allows people to move an
> > object from one bar to another (quite like the click and drag sample,
> > but bars are vertically located), I have 20 bars, so one can only move
> > one step at a time, any skipping would force the object return to its
> > target bar, I modified click and drag but so far the problem is that I
> > can only move the object to the first bar, the object cannot be moved
> > any more after any attempt to move to the second one (whether from the
> > 1st bar or jump from the baseline). Does anyone know how to make them
> > only move one step at a time (force the object land on the target area
> > if people try to skip bars)?
>
> > Thanks- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Wed Nov  7 17:07:52 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 12:07:52 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <4a48f159-5ca4-4a5d-ba5d-602785212b20@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.120752.0500.>

First & foremost, you can figure this out by doing some test for 
yourself (and you should never believe what anyone tells you 
anyway).  Just run your exercise and inspect all the time audit 
measures (see 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917 
) from your various stimulus objects.

Of course, you still want some theoretical understanding.  For that, 
start with Chapter 3 of the original E-Prime User's Guide (or try 
Chapter 4 of the revised edition).  Then look at the 
GetNextTargetOnsetTime and SetNextTargetOnsetTime topics in the 
E-Basic Help facility.  From that, let's infer that E-Basic holds a 
hidden NextTargetOnsetTime variable.  And note that Timing Mode 
merely determines the baseline for setting NextTargetOnseTime from 
the stimulus Duration -- i.e., Event uses OnsetTime for the baseline, 
whereas Cumulative uses NextTargetOnsetTime (or TargetOnsetTime, 
depending on how you want to think of this).  From there, it is just 
simple arithmetic.

So suppose you have an InLine, followed by Slide1 (set to Cumulative 
timing mode), followed by Slide2.  And suppose that Slide1 one does 
*not* get terminated by some event (e.g., response or sound End 
Action).  In that special case, the following holds:

When Slide1 starts execution,
     Slide1.TargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime
     NextTargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime + Slide1.Duration

Then when Slide2 starts execution,
     Slide2.TargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime
     ...

So from that you can see that, yes, what you surmised was 
correct.  By contrast, using Event timing mode, the following would hold:

When Slide1 starts execution,
     Slide1.TargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime
     ...
     NextTargetOnsetTime = Slide1.OnsetTime + Slide1.Duration

And you can take it from there.

BTW, why not just use Cumulative timing mode for all your stimulus 
objects in the Procedure?  In most cases, that would seem more natural.

And again, test all this for yourself, never take anyone's word for 
anything, not even mine.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/6/2012 08:56 PM Tuesday, FrankBank wrote:
>I just want to make sure that I understand how the cumulative timing 
>works. For example, say you had a trial procedure with several 
>slides but that began with an inline that was causing onset delays 
>(for the first slide).  Then you could set the timing of that first 
>slide to cumulative and the delay will be  absorbed by that slides 
>total duration time setting.  Meanwhile, the rest of the slides in 
>the procedure can be left on the event timing setting, since they 
>have no onset delays.  So, as long as the first slide is, for 
>example, just a blank pause or something, then cumulative timing 
>would work well because the total blank screen time would remain the 
>same at the beginning of the procedure.  Do I have this right?
>
>thank you for any assistance/reassurance!

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From leigh.sepeta at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 22:08:53 2012
From: leigh.sepeta at gmail.com (leigh)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:08:53 -0800
Subject: Bitmap trouble with E-Prime
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.140853.0800.>

I know that the images have to be in bitmap format for E-Prime, but my 
images are currently in tiff format and when I convert my tiff images to 
bmp on my mac, E-Prime will not recognize the bmp files. Do you know how to 
fix this? I can convert the tiff to bmp images on a PC and it works, BUT on 
a PC a black border is added to the images when switching from a tiff to 
bmp that I do not want (it is a memory paradigm so the black border can't 
be there bc it is NOT there in the recognition trial), so I would much 
prefer using the Mac created bmp files.

Thank you for any help that you can provide!
Leigh

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Wed Nov  7 22:22:16 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (Gulshan Tahir)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:22:16 +0000
Subject: feedback
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-vziz9A1bjPRpx2hz2agSPA_k5fguJGCE4yaOnQrUq+Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.222216.0000.>


Hi Paul

I am a novice so am not aware of how to inline script and my supervisor has stated that she does not know either. Is there a way to do this using the feebackdisplay already in e-prime or would that be harder to do?
Thank you

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:07:29 +0100
Subject: Re: feedback
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com

hi,

you would probably like to do this using a slide object containing the required states (tabs). Then, use a small piece of inline script just before the slide to set the ActiveState property of the slide to make sure the correct state is presented. An empty state can be used if no feedback is required. (Possibly setting the slide duration to a smaller value in this case)


cheers
paul



2012/11/6 pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk <pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk>

Hi All



I want to know how I can only measure one type of feedback e.g.

positive or negative for each question.

In 1 experiment I am only measuring positive feedback so correct

answers will receive various texts ranging from 'well done,' to 'that

is great'. If the participant gets an answer wrong no feedback is

given.

In exp.2 I am measuring negative feedback, so incorrect answers will

receive various texts from 'try harder' or ' that was ok'. If the

participant gets an answer right they receive no feedback.



Is there a way that this can be done??



I have tried everything and read all the manuals but it has been

unsuccessful.



Thank you.



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From tchung215 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 04:30:53 2012
From: tchung215 at gmail.com (Taewon Chung)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 20:30:53 -0800
Subject: Setting triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.203053.0800.>

Hi,

I'm running an ERP experiment using e-prime and brainvision amp

I would like to set triggers for a sound stimulus (four-syllable words) at 
a certain duration after stimulus onset (i.e. trigger after every 500 ms 
post stimulus onset). of course, the actual presentation time of the 
stimulus is longer than 500 ms.

Is there any script or in-line for such things? Is there any way to set 
triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset?

Also, is there a way to have triggers appear at specific time points by 
typing in certain duration for ech stimulus in the "attribute"?

Thanks :)

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From susangc7 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 15:58:57 2012
From: susangc7 at gmail.com (Susan Campbell)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <74e7a24a-0647-4be9-ae8f-86b08d0ebe44@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.075857.0800.>

Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end? 

(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a simple 
fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)

HTH,
Susan

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, pure-... at hotmail.co.uk 
wrote:
>
> Hi All 
>
> I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However 
> when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative 
> responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no 
> response as blank and had managed to do only the negative. 
> My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating 
> encountered: end of line 
> Expecting: End if. 
>
> My script: 
>
> Dim CorrectAnswer as String 
> Dim IncorrectAnswer as String 
> Dim NoResponse as string 
>
> If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
>     CorrectAnswer= "Correct" 
>
> Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
>         InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp" 
>
> Else 
>     NoResponse= "Blank.bmp" 
>         End if 
>
>
> I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there 
> seems to not be working at all now. 
>
> Thank you 
>

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Thu Nov  8 15:53:16 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:53:16 -0800
Subject: Feedback and inline script
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.075316.0800.>

Hi All

I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
encountered: end of line
Expecting: End if.

My script:

Dim CorrectAnswer as String
Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
Dim NoResponse as string

If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
    CorrectAnswer= "Correct"

Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
	InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"

Else
    NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
	End if


I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
seems to not be working at all now.

Thank you

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Thu Nov  8 16:09:07 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (Gulshan Tahir)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:09:07 +0000
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <af26dc70-454f-4637-bcbf-f65be0189820@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.160907.0000.>


Hi Susan
 
Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3 response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and negative response show up as blank?
 
Thank you
 



Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
From: susangc7 at gmail.com
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script

Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end? 

(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)

HTH,
Susan

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Hi All 

I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However 
when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative 
responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no 
response as blank and had managed to do only the negative. 
My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating 
encountered: end of line 
Expecting: End if. 

My script: 

Dim CorrectAnswer as String 
Dim IncorrectAnswer as String 
Dim NoResponse as string 

If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
    CorrectAnswer= "Correct" 

Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
        InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp" 

Else 
    NoResponse= "Blank.bmp" 
        End if 


I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there 
seems to not be working at all now. 

Thank you 

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 16:32:32 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <SNT142-W60A3A0236C4E82E5EC50E2F8690@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.113232.0500.>

Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a 
profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt 
augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...

The line

         If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then

compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will 
always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do.  Then your 
Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly 
not what you meant.

So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else 
clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp".  I don't quite see how 
that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens 
due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If, 
Else If, Else is deeply flawed.

If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and 
literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take 
any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.

-- David McFarlane


At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
>Hi Susan
>
>Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have 
>another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3 
>response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way 
>that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and 
>negative response show up as blank?
>
>Thank you
>
>
>----------
>Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
>From: susangc7 at gmail.com
>To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
>
>Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
>
>(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a 
>simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
>
>HTH,
>Susan
>
>On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, 
>pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>Hi All
>
>I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
>when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
>responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
>response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
>My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
>encountered: end of line
>Expecting: End if.
>
>My script:
>
>Dim CorrectAnswer as String
>Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
>Dim NoResponse as string
>
>If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
>     CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
>
>Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
>         InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
>
>Else
>     NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
>         End if
>
>
>I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
>seems to not be working at all now.
>
>Thank you

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Thu Nov  8 16:45:05 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (Gulshan Tahir)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:45:05 +0000
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <509bdeb6.af21320a.28f3.64f5SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.164505.0000.>


Dear David
 
I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent many weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
 
I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each feedback type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only need the correct answers to appear in the positive group and the incorrect and no response to be blank. The feedback icon within the E-prime 2.0 was used as my supervisor strongly suggested I use it but when I did use the feedback icon on its own without any inline scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different) were incorrect and all blank or no responses were correct. 
 
Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script with the feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a different method.
 
Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
 
Thank you.
 
 

> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> 
> Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a 
> profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt 
> augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> 
> The line
> 
> If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> 
> compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will 
> always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your 
> Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly 
> not what you meant.
> 
> So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else 
> clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how 
> that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens 
> due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If, 
> Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> 
> If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and 
> literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take 
> any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.
> 
> -- David McFarlane
> 
> 
> At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> >Hi Susan
> >
> >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have 
> >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3 
> >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way 
> >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and 
> >negative response show up as blank?
> >
> >Thank you
> >
> >
> >----------
> >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> >
> >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> >
> >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a 
> >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> >
> >HTH,
> >Susan
> >
> >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, 
> >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> >Hi All
> >
> >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> >encountered: end of line
> >Expecting: End if.
> >
> >My script:
> >
> >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> >Dim NoResponse as string
> >
> >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> >
> >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> >
> >Else
> > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > End if
> >
> >
> >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> >seems to not be working at all now.
> >
> >Thank you
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> 
> 
 		 	   		  

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 16:51:51 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:51:51 -0500
Subject: Setting triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset
In-Reply-To: <78341abd-d7b6-48a3-9fca-c8e56009c26a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.115151.0500.>

A couple thoughts to move you forward:

1) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object to 500, then follow 
that by any other object (e.g., Wait) with a Duration of 
(sound_stimulus_duration - 500).  Remember, if you set Stop After of 
the sound stimulus object to No then the sound will continue to play 
even after the end of the sound object.

2) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object as normal, and set 
its PreRelease to (Duration - 500) (you will have to do that manually 
because you cannot enter calculations there, otherwise do 
calculations in InLine and use an attrbute reference for 
PreRelease).  Set Stop After as appropriate.  I prefer this approach 
myself as it makes the time managment cleaner, but this scares people 
who do not understand PreRelease.

Also look at the threads at 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd 
and 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ef0e5a8d8b87aa0c 
for some somewhat related topics.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/7/2012 11:30 PM Wednesday, Taewon Chung wrote:
>I'm running an ERP experiment using e-prime and brainvision amp
>
>I would like to set triggers for a sound stimulus (four-syllable 
>words) at a certain duration after stimulus onset (i.e. trigger 
>after every 500 ms post stimulus onset). of course, the actual 
>presentation time of the stimulus is longer than 500 ms.
>
>Is there any script or in-line for such things? Is there any way to 
>set triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset?
>
>Also, is there a way to have triggers appear at specific time points 
>by typing in certain duration for ech stimulus in the "attribute"?
>
>Thanks :)

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 17:02:50 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 12:02:50 -0500
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <SNT142-W37E3F84458F4F52EE5FA91F8690@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.120250.0500.>

In cases like this, I offer only generic advice.  As you have already 
found, the manuals that come with E-Prime are essential and make good 
starting tutorials, but are entirely inadequate for anything 
further.  If you and your supervisor are both novices to computer 
programming in general, then you would do best by taking the time out 
to first do any course in Introduction to Computer Programming just 
to get the underlying concepts, then come back to E-Prime.  If either 
of your are already familiar with computer programming in general but 
just not E-Prime in particular, then the best advice I can give is a 
shameless plug for my online E-Prime course, see link below.  You 
might also look at the essays at 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/5425e03968cab428 
and 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b0ce54870b723fc3 .

Best,
-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/8/2012 11:45 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
>Dear David
>
>I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent 
>many weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
>
>I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each 
>feedback type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only 
>need the correct answers to appear in the positive group and the 
>incorrect and no response to be blank. The feedback icon within the 
>E-prime 2.0 was used as my supervisor strongly suggested I use it 
>but when I did use the feedback icon on its own without any inline 
>scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different) were incorrect and all 
>blank or no responses were correct.
>
>Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script 
>with the feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a 
>different method.
>
>Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> >
> > Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a
> > profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt
> > augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> >
> > The line
> >
> > If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> >
> > compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will
> > always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your
> > Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly
> > not what you meant.
> >
> > So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else
> > clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how
> > that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens
> > due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If,
> > Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> >
> > If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and
> > literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take
> > any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.
> >
> > -- David McFarlane
> >
> >
> > At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> > >Hi Susan
> > >
> > >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have
> > >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3
> > >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way
> > >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and
> > >negative response show up as blank?
> > >
> > >Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> > >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> > >
> > >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> > >
> > >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a
> > >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> > >
> > >HTH,
> > >Susan
> > >
> > >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5,
> > >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > >Hi All
> > >
> > >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> > >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> > >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> > >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> > >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> > >encountered: end of line
> > >Expecting: End if.
> > >
> > >My script:
> > >
> > >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim NoResponse as string
> > >
> > >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> > >
> > >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> > >
> > >Else
> > > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > > End if
> > >
> > >
> > >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> > >seems to not be working at all now.
> > >
> > >Thank you

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 17:05:46 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 12:05:46 -0500
Subject: Setting triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset
In-Reply-To: <509be331.ce97320a.3594.680dSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.120546.0500.>

Oh, another thread that may shed further 
light: 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/9d51831937c69e19 .

-- David McFarlane


At 11/8/2012 11:51 AM Thursday, David McFarlane wrote:
>A couple thoughts to move you forward:
>
>1) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object to 500, then 
>follow that by any other object (e.g., Wait) with a Duration of 
>(sound_stimulus_duration - 500).  Remember, if you set Stop After of 
>the sound stimulus object to No then the sound will continue to play 
>even after the end of the sound object.
>
>2) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object as normal, and set 
>its PreRelease to (Duration - 500) (you will have to do that 
>manually because you cannot enter calculations there, otherwise do 
>calculations in InLine and use an attrbute reference for 
>PreRelease).  Set Stop After as appropriate.  I prefer this approach 
>myself as it makes the time managment cleaner, but this scares 
>people who do not understand PreRelease.
>
>Also look at the threads at 
>http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd 
>and 
>http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ef0e5a8d8b87aa0c 
>for some somewhat related topics.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training 
>online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
>take any and all questions at 
>http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
>PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
>(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their 
>YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter 
>feed yet, though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, 
>please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the 
>sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 11/7/2012 11:30 PM Wednesday, Taewon Chung wrote:
>>I'm running an ERP experiment using e-prime and brainvision amp
>>
>>I would like to set triggers for a sound stimulus (four-syllable 
>>words) at a certain duration after stimulus onset (i.e. trigger 
>>after every 500 ms post stimulus onset). of course, the actual 
>>presentation time of the stimulus is longer than 500 ms.
>>
>>Is there any script or in-line for such things? Is there any way to 
>>set triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset?
>>
>>Also, is there a way to have triggers appear at specific time 
>>points by typing in certain duration for ech stimulus in the "attribute"?
>>
>>Thanks :)
>
>--
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>

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 18:59:15 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 13:59:15 -0500
Subject: Bitmap trouble with E-Prime
In-Reply-To: <09cebdfe-6729-4911-bd27-a6d26d321b09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.135915.0500.>

Leigh,

Ah, good old Mac to PC conversion problems...

Well, actually, PST lifted the .bmp restriction with E-Prime 2, so if 
you have that version then according to 
http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=360 you may now use 
*.bmp, *.jpg, *.jpeg, *gif, *.png, *.tif, *.tiff, *.emf, and 
*.wmf.  So give that a try.

If you are stuck with EP1, then I would try copying the .tiff files 
to the PC and doing the .bmp conversion using PC software.  Since you 
obviously already have the PC (else you could not run E-Prime), this 
should pose no burden.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/7/2012 05:08 PM Wednesday, leigh wrote:
>I know that the images have to be in bitmap format for E-Prime, but 
>my images are currently in tiff format and when I convert my tiff 
>images to bmp on my mac, E-Prime will not recognize the bmp files. 
>Do you know how to fix this? I can convert the tiff to bmp images on 
>a PC and it works, BUT on a PC a black border is added to the images 
>when switching from a tiff to bmp that I do not want (it is a memory 
>paradigm so the black border can't be there bc it is NOT there in 
>the recognition trial), so I would much prefer using the Mac created bmp files.
>
>Thank you for any help that you can provide!
>Leigh

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From alphonse.stickle at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 21:36:24 2012
From: alphonse.stickle at gmail.com (Alphonse Stickle)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 08:36:24 +1100
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <SNT142-W37E3F84458F4F52EE5FA91F8690@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.083624.1100.>


Google can be your friend ... much pages telling of components of VBA 
code, such as conditionals, to achieve syntax allowable. One offering:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/752y8abs%28v=vs.80%29.aspx

At 03:45 AM 9/11/2012, you wrote:
>Dear David
>
>I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent 
>many weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
>
>I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each 
>feedback type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only 
>need the correct answers to appear in the positive group and the 
>incorrect and no response to be blank. The feedback icon within the 
>E-prime 2.0 was used as my supervisor strongly suggested I use it 
>but when I did use the feedback icon on its own without any inline 
>scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different) were incorrect and all 
>blank or no responses were correct.
>
>Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script 
>with the feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a 
>different method.
>
>Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> >
> > Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a
> > profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt
> > augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> >
> > The line
> >
> > If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> >
> > compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will
> > always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your
> > Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly
> > not what you meant.
> >
> > So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else
> > clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how
> > that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens
> > due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If,
> > Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> >
> > If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and
> > literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take
> > any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.
> >
> > -- David McFarlane
> >
> >
> > At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> > >Hi Susan
> > >
> > >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have
> > >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3
> > >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way
> > >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and
> > >negative response show up as blank?
> > >
> > >Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> > >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> > >
> > >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> > >
> > >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a
> > >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> > >
> > >HTH,
> > >Susan
> > >
> > >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5,
> > >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > >Hi All
> > >
> > >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> > >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> > >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> > >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> > >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> > >encountered: end of line
> > >Expecting: End if.
> > >
> > >My script:
> > >
> > >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim NoResponse as string
> > >
> > >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> > >
> > >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> > >
> > >Else
> > > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > > End if
> > >
> > >
> > >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> > >seems to not be working at all now.
> > >
> > >Thank you
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
> Google Groups "E-Prime" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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From meltemballan at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 21:42:10 2012
From: meltemballan at gmail.com (Meltem BALLAN)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:42:10 -0500
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <509c25df.c9db440a.3d13.ffff99f6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.164210.0500.>

I agree w/ Alphonse. You might also want to look closer to the E-Prime
Sample tasks. If I recall correctly there is a task with feedback and it
runs exactly like what you described below.
M.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Alphonse Stickle <alphonse.stickle at gmail.com
> wrote:

>
> Google can be your friend ... much pages telling of components of VBA
> code, such as conditionals, to achieve syntax allowable. One offering:
>
>  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/752y8abs%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
>
>  <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/752y8abs(v=vs.80).aspx>At 03:45
> AM 9/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Dear David
>
> I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent many
> weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
>
> I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each feedback
> type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only need the correct
> answers to appear in the positive group and the incorrect and no response
> to be blank. The feedback icon within the E-prime 2.0 was used as my
> supervisor strongly suggested I use it but when I did use the feedback icon
> on its own without any inline scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different)
> were incorrect and all blank or no responses were correct.
>
> Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script with the
> feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a different method.
>
> Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> >
> > Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a
> > profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt
> > augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> >
> > The line
> >
> > If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> >
> > compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will
> > always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your
> > Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly
> > not what you meant.
> >
> > So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else
> > clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how
> > that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens
> > due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If,
> > Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> >
> > If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and
> > literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take
> > any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding
> further.
> >
> > -- David McFarlane
> >
> >
> > At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> > >Hi Susan
> > >
> > >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have
> > >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3
> > >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way
> > >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and
> > >negative response show up as blank?
> > >
> > >Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> > >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> > >
> > >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> > >
> > >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a
> > >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> > >
> > >HTH,
> > >Susan
> > >
> > >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5,
> > >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > >Hi All
> > >
> > >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> > >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> > >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> > >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> > >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> > >encountered: end of line
> > >Expecting: End if.
> > >
> > >My script:
> > >
> > >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim NoResponse as string
> > >
> > >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> > >
> > >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> > >
> > >Else
> > > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > > End if
> > >
> > >
> > >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> > >seems to not be working at all now.
> > >
> > >Thank you
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "E-Prime" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
>  --
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>
>
>



-- 

Meltem Ballan, PhD
Early Brain Development EEG Studies
Department of Psychiatry
School of Medicine
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
Phone:919-843-3793

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 09:03:17 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 01:03:17 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <509a9571.cb96320a.765e.2f94SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.010317.0800.>

Hi David,
Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file
(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it
all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it.

In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's
guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The
reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only-
was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is
blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to
me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous
slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it
was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode
during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay +
slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration
(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials.

The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and
I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these
seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset
delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some
anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their
durations equivalent.

I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if
that's the case.
thanks again,
Frank

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Fri Nov  9 21:16:11 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 16:16:11 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <11c45ca2-45b2-43ad-b64d-6e81163de939@qi10g2000pbb.googlegr
 oups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.161611.0500.>

Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's 
why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just 
think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some 
exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in 
the .edat files, and it should all make sense.

Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to 
Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then 
stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S 
will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were 
not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties 
of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use 
Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each 
one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their 
Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or 
equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your 
other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of 
OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event.

BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge:

     Const  SDuration as Long = 1000
     Dim  t0 as Long
     t0 = Clock.Read
     ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...>
     c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0)

And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of 
bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the 
fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of 
the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not 
even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the 
past myself).

I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the 
manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure 
that everything makes sense to you.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote:
>Hi David,
>Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file
>(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it
>all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it.
>
>In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's
>guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The
>reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only-
>was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is
>blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to
>me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous
>slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it
>was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode
>during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay +
>slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration
>(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials.
>
>The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and
>I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these
>seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset
>delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some
>anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their
>durations equivalent.
>
>I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if
>that's the case.
>thanks again,
>Frank

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 23:37:24 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:37:24 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <4a48f159-5ca4-4a5d-ba5d-602785212b20@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.153724.0800.>

Thanks for your response, I think I'm getting the idea now.  One last 
question though: if the onset delay lasts several refresh cycles, what do 
the pixels on a CRT monitor display during this time?  

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sat Nov 10 18:58:14 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (S)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:58:14 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <509d72a8.8768320a.5ff0.23dcSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.105814.0800.>

Thanks for explaining more about  the uses for cumulative timing, I usually 
use event timing, because that's normally most important to me, but 
recently have needed to use cumulative timing for longer-term timing 
accuracy of trial & block durations. I have related questions about  event  
and cumulative timing, and combining them. If I have a visual stimulus what 
I want displayed for 100 ms (6 refresh cycles at 60 hz) and use event 
timing for this object, E-Prime documentation recommends setting the 
duration of that object to 90 ms to minimize the chance that E-Prime will 
miss detecting a refresh (a little more than half a fresh cycle to watch 
for the next vertical blank). I've tested this, and on our PCs I've found 
that it does reduce missed refreshes (though I've found subtracting 5 
rather than 10 ms works more consistently).  If I set the visual display 
duration to 100 ms, the onset to onset time (to the following object) will 
occasionally be 116 ms, but that almost never happens if I set the duration 
to 90 or 95 ms. I have the following two questions about event and 
cumulative timings:

   1. Is this adjustment (setting duration to about half a refresh less 
   than desired target duration) generally a good practice to achieve the most 
   consistent event timing durations for visual displays?
   2. How does this practice need to be reconsidered when using a 
   combination of event and cumulative timings? I've used only one or the 
   other, and have always set duration to the exact value I want when using 
   cumulative timing, but usually 5 ms less when using event timing (combined 
   with onset syncs and no clear after). 

-- Thanks for advice and suggestions (which I promise to test before using 
in my experiments).

On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:16:26 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's 
> why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just 
> think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some 
> exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in 
> the .edat files, and it should all make sense. 
>
> Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to 
> Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then 
> stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S 
> will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were 
> not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties 
> of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use 
> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each 
> one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their 
> Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or 
> equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your 
> other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of 
> OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event. 
>
> BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge: 
>
>      Const  SDuration as Long = 1000 
>      Dim  t0 as Long 
>      t0 = Clock.Read 
>      ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...> 
>      c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0) 
>
> And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of 
> bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the 
> fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of 
> the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not 
> even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the 
> past myself). 
>
> I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the 
> manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure 
> that everything makes sense to you. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
> /---- 
> Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> take any and all questions at 
> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
> strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> ), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> \---- 
>
>
> At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote: 
> >Hi David, 
> >Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file 
> >(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it 
> >all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it. 
> > 
> >In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's 
> >guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The 
> >reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only- 
> >was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is 
> >blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to 
> >me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous 
> >slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it 
> >was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode 
> >during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay + 
> >slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration 
> >(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials. 
> > 
> >The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and 
> >I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these 
> >seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset 
> >delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some 
> >anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their 
> >durations equivalent. 
> > 
> >I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if 
> >that's the case. 
> >thanks again, 
> >Frank 
>
>

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Sat Nov 10 23:27:52 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:27:52 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.152752.0800.>

Hi Scott, I'm just wondering where you saw in the E-prime documentation to 
set the duration less than (rather than exactly) at some multiple of the 
refresh rate?  Maybe I'll try doing that as well.  My (perhaps faulty) 
understanding of the E-prime documentation is a little different.  I 
thought what happens when you set the duration to less than an exact 
multiple of the refresh cycle is that you end up with a percentage of your 
trials displayed at the +1 refresh cycle and -1 refresh cycle that bounds 
that chosen duration.

So, say you used 90 ms in your case.  Your upper bound refresh cycle is at 
100ms and lower is at 100-16.7 = 83.3 ms.  The distance of your chosen 
duration from these two points determines the percentage of trials that 
will be of either the lower or higher duration.  So then:
90 - 83.3 = 6.7 ms.  Then divide that by the refresh cycle: 6.7/16.7 = 
40%.  Since it is  40% of the distance between refresh cycles you'd end up 
with 40% of your trials at 100 ms and 60% at the low end of 83.3 ms.  If 
you used 95 ms instead you'd get 95 - 83.3 = 11.7 and 11.7/16.7 = 70% so 
70% of your trials would be 100 ms in duration and 30% at 83.3 ms.  That is 
how i read it anyways, would be very interested to hear others thoughts!  

On Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:58:14 AM UTC-8, Scott wrote:
>
> recently have needed to use cumulative timing for longer-term timing 
> accuracy of trial & block durations. I have related questions about  event  
> and cumulative timing, and combining them. If I have a visual stimulus what 
> I want displayed for 100 ms (6 refresh cycles at 60 hz) and use event 
> timing for this object, E-Prime documentation recommends setting the 
> duration of that object to 90 ms to minimize the chance that E-Prime will 
> miss detecting a refresh (a little more than half a fresh cycle to watch 
> for the next vertical blank). I've tested this, and on our PCs I've found 
> that it does reduce missed refreshes (though I've found subtracting 5 
> rather than 10 ms works more consistently).  If I set the visual display 
> duration to 100 ms, the onset to onset time (to the following object) will 
> occasionally be 116 ms, but that almost never happens if I set the duration 
> to 90 or 95 ms. I have the following two questions about event and 
> cumulative timings:
>
>    1. Is this adjustment (setting duration to about half a refresh less 
>    than desired target duration) generally a good practice to achieve the most 
>    consistent event timing durations for visual displays?
>    2. How does this practice need to be reconsidered when using a 
>    combination of event and cumulative timings? I've used only one or the 
>    other, and have always set duration to the exact value I want when using 
>    cumulative timing, but usually 5 ms less when using event timing (combined 
>    with onset syncs and no clear after). 
>
> -- Thanks for advice and suggestions (which I promise to test before using 
> in my experiments).
>
> On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:16:26 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>>
>> Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's 
>> why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just 
>> think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some 
>> exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in 
>> the .edat files, and it should all make sense. 
>>
>> Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to 
>> Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then 
>> stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S 
>> will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were 
>> not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties 
>> of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use 
>> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each 
>> one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their 
>> Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or 
>> equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your 
>> other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of 
>> OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event. 
>>
>> BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge: 
>>
>>      Const  SDuration as Long = 1000 
>>      Dim  t0 as Long 
>>      t0 = Clock.Read 
>>      ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...> 
>>      c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0) 
>>
>> And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of 
>> bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the 
>> fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of 
>> the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not 
>> even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the 
>> past myself). 
>>
>> I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the 
>> manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure 
>> that everything makes sense to you. 
>>
>> ----- 
>> David McFarlane 
>> E-Prime training 
>> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>>
>> /---- 
>> Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
>> take any and all questions at 
>> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
>> strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
>> much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
>> it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
>> (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>> ), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
>> channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
>> though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
>> the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
>> \---- 
>>
>>
>> At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote: 
>> >Hi David, 
>> >Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file 
>> >(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it 
>> >all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it. 
>> > 
>> >In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's 
>> >guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The 
>> >reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only- 
>> >was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is 
>> >blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to 
>> >me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous 
>> >slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it 
>> >was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode 
>> >during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay + 
>> >slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration 
>> >(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials. 
>> > 
>> >The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and 
>> >I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these 
>> >seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset 
>> >delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some 
>> >anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their 
>> >durations equivalent. 
>> > 
>> >I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if 
>> >that's the case. 
>> >thanks again, 
>> >Frank 
>>
>>

-- 
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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Sat Nov 10 23:28:57 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:28:57 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.152857.0800.>

 Hi Scott, I'm just wondering where you saw in the E-prime documentation to 
set the duration less than (rather than exactly) at some multiple of the 
refresh rate?  Maybe I'll try doing that as well.  My (perhaps faulty) 
understanding of the E-prime documentation is a little different.  I 
thought what happens when you set the duration to less than an exact 
multiple of the refresh cycle is that you end up with a percentage of your 
trials displayed at the +1 refresh cycle and -1 refresh cycle that bounds 
that chosen duration.

So, say you used 90 ms in your case.  Your upper bound refresh cycle is at 
100ms and lower is at 100-16.7 = 83.3 ms.  The distance of your chosen 
duration from these two points determines the percentage of trials that 
will be of either the lower or higher duration.  So then:
90 - 83.3 = 6.7 ms.  Then divide that by the refresh cycle: 6.7/16.7 = 
40%.  Since it is  40% of the distance between refresh cycles you'd end up 
with 40% of your trials at 100 ms and 60% at the low end of 83.3 ms.  If 
you used 95 ms instead you'd get 95 - 83.3 = 11.7 and 11.7/16.7 = 70% so 
70% of your trials would be 100 ms in duration and 30% at 83.3 ms.  That is 
how i read it anyways, would be very interested to hear others thoughts!  

-- 
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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 00:00:46 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:00:46 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.160046.0800.>

Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
(based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
Just an idea.

-- 
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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sun Nov 11 19:35:52 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:35:52 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <1b083fbe-1b5d-403a-8216-fdd48a94d5ff@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.113552.0800.>

Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
bold in the *E-Prime User’s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
E-Prime is as follows:
*Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
cycles) - 10ms*
Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one can 
never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or anything 
else). 

This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the documentation 
that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *EVENT* timing (in 
fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 3). Now that I have 
hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, please tell me: Has this 
recommendation changed? If so, someone *please* explain and set me 
straight. I usually have done this (except in certain circumstances), 
starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have more 
current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO timings in 
your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, across several hundred 
trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 100 ms? If it 
always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), then I suppose 
there's no reason to do it differently.

On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>
> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
> Just an idea.
>

-- 
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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sun Nov 11 21:04:27 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:04:27 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <2a3ead8f-a287-45eb-a936-4c2c4df64583@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.130427.0800.>

PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one 
object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use 
Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I was 
asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've 
confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another question 
(meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will explain 
how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix timing 
modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set 
durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I thought 
that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting 
the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*" to 
obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event durations 
for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only apply 
to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about what to do 
when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this "rule of thumb" 
even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused you 
(and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this 
discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I 
expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the answer 
is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test combinations 
of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
> Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
> EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
> account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
> timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
> if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
> 'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
> documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
> following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
> bold in the *E-Prime User’s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
> The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
> E-Prime is as follows:
> *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
> cycles) - 10ms*
> Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one can 
> never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or anything 
> else). 
>
> This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
> documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *
> EVENT* timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 
> 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, 
> please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone *please*explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except in certain 
> circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. 
> Maybe you have more current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for 
> actual OTO timings in your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, 
> across several hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration 
> for 100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), 
> then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>
> On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>
>> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
>> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
>> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
>> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
>> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
>> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
>> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
>> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
>> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
>> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
>> Just an idea.
>>
>

-- 
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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sun Nov 11 23:10:42 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:10:42 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <b2b7874c-ad12-4e94-b00d-6093e95940c5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.151042.0800.>

PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. Please note 
that I have NOT yet upgraded to the *E-Prime 2.0 Production Release*<http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>; 
I'm still using *E-Prime 2.0 Professional Release Candidate Build 2.0.8.90a*to avoid potential compatibility problems with programs our lab is current 
running, at least until I become more familiar with the changes. Obviously, 
some of the documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I posted 
are not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any 
reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's guide. 
Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further information 
column" does mention and provide the following link:
KB 3025 <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025> INFO: 
Fast/Single
Refresh Presentation in
E-Prime
This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion (which I've 
underlined) as before, under *Important Points*:
As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, *the general rule of thumb when 
working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the intended 
duration *to account for delays that result from waiting for the next 
vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, alone, may help 
you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.

When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find 
anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this 
unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. Nevertheless, I 
have found that following this rule can help minimize missed vertical 
blanks and the occasional extra refresh cycle for *E-Prime version 2.0.8.90a
*, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, even for display durations longer than 1 or 
2 refresh cycles. Obviously I need to carefully read the latest 
documentation and learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, 
before I say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the confusion. 
Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I admit I don't 
carefully read every post on this form, nor have I searched for other 
posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of thumb". I will do that 
asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
> PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one 
> object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use 
> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I was 
> asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've 
> confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another question 
> (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will explain 
> how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix timing 
> modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set 
> durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I thought 
> that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting 
> the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*" to 
> obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event durations 
> for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only apply 
> to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about what to do 
> when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this "rule of thumb" 
> even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused you 
> (and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this 
> discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I 
> expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the answer 
> is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test combinations 
> of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>
> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>
>> Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
>> EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
>> account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
>> timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
>> if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
>> 'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
>> documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
>> following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
>> bold in the *E-Prime User’s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
>> The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
>> E-Prime is as follows:
>> *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
>> cycles) - 10ms*
>> Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one can 
>> never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or anything 
>> else). 
>>
>> This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>> documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *
>> EVENT* timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 
>> 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, 
>> please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone *please*explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except in certain 
>> circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. 
>> Maybe you have more current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for 
>> actual OTO timings in your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, 
>> across several hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration 
>> for 100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), 
>> then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>>
>>> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
>>> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
>>> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
>>> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
>>> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
>>> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
>>> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
>>> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
>>> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>>> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
>>> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
>>> Just an idea.
>>>
>>

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Mon Nov 12 00:04:19 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:04:19 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <2b92eccd-fbd5-493a-b4ad-f4b70e58583d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.160419.0800.>

OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
3027 - FEATURE: <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>RefreshAlignment 
locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to promote timing accuracy

It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE the 
production release, since this KB article seemed to have been originally 
posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently updated 1/4/2012 4:10:00 
PM (GMT). I don't see any extended discussions of this change, or exactly 
when it occurred, from a quick search of this forum for RefreshAlignment. 
However, your analysis, 
 FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of RefreshAlignment 
when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" . This feature change may 
have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first introduced and I overlooked it and 
the potential consequences of continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for 
E-Prime 1.  Again, I apologize for my confusion, and for interjectingconfusion into this forum.I'm not sorry to discover my error, however, and 
to learn things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly. 
Thanks!

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
> PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
> discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. Please note 
> that I have NOT yet upgraded to the *E-Prime 2.0 Production Release*<http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>; 
> I'm still using *E-Prime 2.0 Professional Release Candidate Build 
> 2.0.8.90a* to avoid potential compatibility problems with programs our 
> lab is current running, at least until I become more familiar with the 
> changes. Obviously, some of the documentation has changed. The page numbers 
> and quotes I posted are not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I 
> cannot find any reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous 
> user's guide. Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further 
> information column" does mention and provide the following link:
> KB 3025 <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025> INFO: 
> Fast/Single
> Refresh Presentation in
> E-Prime
> This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion (which 
> I've underlined) as before, under *Important Points*:
> As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, *the general rule of thumb when 
> working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the intended 
> duration *to account for delays that result from waiting for the next 
> vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, alone, may help 
> you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>
> When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find 
> anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this 
> unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. Nevertheless, I 
> have found that following this rule can help minimize missed vertical 
> blanks and the occasional extra refresh cycle for *E-Prime version 
> 2.0.8.90a*, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, even for display durations longer 
> than 1 or 2 refresh cycles. Obviously I need to carefully read the latest 
> documentation and learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, 
> before I say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
> Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the confusion. 
> Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I admit I don't 
> carefully read every post on this form, nor have I searched for other 
> posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of thumb". I will do that 
> asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>
> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>
>> PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one 
>> object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use 
>> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I was 
>> asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've 
>> confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another question 
>> (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will explain 
>> how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix timing 
>> modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set 
>> durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I thought 
>> that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting 
>> the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*" 
>> to obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event 
>> durations for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should 
>> only apply to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about 
>> what to do when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this 
>> "rule of thumb" even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I 
>> just confused you (and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing 
>> issue into this discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I 
>> apologize.  Regardless, I expect David eventually will explain why my 
>> question is dumb and the answer is simple. I admit that I have done 
>> nothing, so far, to test combinations of event and cumulative durations and 
>> timings within a trial.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
>>> EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
>>> account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
>>> timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
>>> if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
>>> 'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
>>> documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
>>> following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
>>> bold in the *E-Prime User’s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
>>> The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
>>> E-Prime is as follows:
>>> *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
>>> cycles) - 10ms*
>>> Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one 
>>> can never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or 
>>> anything else). 
>>>
>>> This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>>> documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *
>>> EVENT* timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 
>>> 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, 
>>> please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone *please*explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except in certain 
>>> circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. 
>>> Maybe you have more current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for 
>>> actual OTO timings in your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, 
>>> across several hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration 
>>> for 100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), 
>>> then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
>>>> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
>>>> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
>>>> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
>>>> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
>>>> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
>>>> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
>>>> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
>>>> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>>>> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
>>>> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
>>>> Just an idea.
>>>>
>>>

-- 
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From nockmss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 11:09:55 2012
From: nockmss at gmail.com (Justin)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:09:55 +0000
Subject: Digest for e-prime@googlegroups.com - 4 Messages in 1 Topic
In-Reply-To: <90e6ba3fcd971c184004ce4a1eef@google.com>
Message-ID: <MON.12.NOV.2012.110955.0000.>

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, <e-prime at googlegroups.com> wrote:

>   Today's Topic Summary
>
> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/topics
>
>    - Simple cumulative timing question <#13af441109236b15_group_thread_0>[4 Updates]
>
>   Simple cumulative timing question<http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/t/59a24c90b3f8b867>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 11:35AM -0800
>
>    Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for
>    *
>    EVENT* timing. In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into
>    account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and
>    cumulative
>    timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something
>    wrong --
>    if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms
>    'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that
>    the
>    documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just
>    following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is
>    printed in
>    bold in the *E-Prime User’s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page
>    99):
>    The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify
>    in
>    E-Prime is as follows:
>    *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of
>    cycles) - 10ms*
>    Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one
>    can
>    never assume that the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or
>    anything
>    else).
>
>    This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the
>    documentation
>    that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *EVENT* timing
>    (in
>    fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 3). Now that I
>    have
>    hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, please tell me: Has
>    this
>    recommendation changed? If so, someone *please* explain and set me
>    straight. I usually have done this (except in certain circumstances),
>    starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have
>    more
>    current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO
>    timings in
>    your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, across several
>    hundred
>    trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 100 ms? If it
>    always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), then I suppose
>    there's no reason to do it differently.
>
>    On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>
>
>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 01:04PM -0800
>
>    PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one
>    object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use
>    Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I
>    was
>    asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've
>    confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another
>    question
>    (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will
>    explain
>    how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix
>    timing
>    modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set
>    durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I
>    thought
>    that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for
>    setting
>    the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*"
>    to
>    obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event
>    durations
>    for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only
>    apply
>    to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about what
>    to do
>    when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this "rule of
>    thumb"
>    even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused
>    you
>    (and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into
>    this
>    discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.
>    Regardless, I
>    expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the
>    answer
>    is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test
>    combinations
>    of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>
>    On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 03:10PM -0800
>
>    PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and
>    discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. Please
>    note
>    that I have NOT yet upgraded to the *E-Prime 2.0 Production Release*<
>    http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>;
>    I'm still using *E-Prime 2.0 Professional Release Candidate Build
>    2.0.8.90a*to avoid potential compatibility problems with programs our lab
>    is current
>    running, at least until I become more familiar with the changes.
>    Obviously,
>    some of the documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I
>    posted
>    are not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any
>    reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's
>    guide.
>    Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further information
>    column" does mention and provide the following link:
>    KB 3025 <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025> INFO:
>    Fast/Single
>    Refresh Presentation in
>    E-Prime
>    This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion (which
>    I've
>    underlined) as before, under *Important Points*:
>    As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, *the general rule of thumb
>    when
>    working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the intended
>    duration *to account for delays that result from waiting for the next
>    vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, alone, may
>    help
>    you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>
>    When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find
>    anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this
>    unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. Nevertheless,
>    I
>    have found that following this rule can help minimize missed vertical
>    blanks and the occasional extra refresh cycle for *E-Prime version
>    2.0.8.90a
>    *, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, even for display durations longer than
>    1 or
>    2 refresh cycles. Obviously I need to carefully read the latest
>    documentation and learn more about the new Production Release, and
>    test it,
>    before I say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using
>    the
>    Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the
>    confusion.
>    Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I admit I don't
>    carefully read every post on this form, nor have I searched for other
>    posting about this (possibly outdated) "rule of thumb". I will do that
>    asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>
>    On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 04:04PM -0800
>
>    OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
>    3027 - FEATURE: <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>RefreshAlignment
>
>    locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to promote timing accuracy
>
>    It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE the
>    production release, since this KB article seemed to have been
>    originally
>    posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently updated 1/4/2012
>    4:10:00
>    PM (GMT). I don't see any extended discussions of this change, or
>    exactly
>    when it occurred, from a quick search of this forum for
>    RefreshAlignment.
>    However, your analysis,
>    FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of
>    RefreshAlignment
>    when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" . This feature
>    change may
>    have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first introduced and I overlooked it
>    and
>    the potential consequences of continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for
>    E-Prime 1. Again, I apologize for my confusion, and for
>    interjectingconfusion into this forum.I'm not sorry to discover my error,
>    however, and
>    to learn things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly.
>    Thanks!
>
>    On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group
> e-prime.
> You can post via email <e-prime at googlegroups.com>.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send<e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>an empty message.
> For more options, visit <http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/topics>this group.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

-- 
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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 22:31:37 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:31:37 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <b71c84cf-4756-4162-9c0e-49a653950268@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <MON.12.NOV.2012.143137.0800.>

 Hi Scott, I'm going to have to think about some of the issues that you've 
brought up to get a better handle on them myself.  In short though, please 
disregard everything I said previously, as I think you are much more likely 
to know what your talking about than I am at this point.  I apologize for 
confusing you further, since you are 100% right about the 10ms advice in 
chapter 3, and for some reason I completely forgot about that.  I was 
working from memory, and I believe I was recalling the equation on page 90 
(?) I think.  What that percentage is referring to I really have no idea 
now.

I do want to thank you though for bringing the 10ms issue to my attention.  
I'll have to play around with that further on eprime since I have generally 
used exact refresh cycle times and gotten millisecond accuracy almost 
always, but I usually run on a single computer so can see how using 
multiple terminals with slightly varying refresh cycles could make the 10ms 
option an important choice.

I'll post again after I've had time to reread chapter 3.  Thanks again 
Scott and I apologize for making you question your setup.

-- 
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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 16:51:29 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:51:29 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <74506d2e-f416-42a9-8d66-51c1e33f5e4b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.115129.0500.>

Please do the following exercise:  Start with a new program.  Put the 
following three E-Objects in a Procedure:

- TextDisplay1:  "A", Duration = 1000, Data Logging = Time Audit
- InLine1:  Sleep 1000
- TextDisplay2:  "B", Duration = 1000, Data Logging = Time Audit, 
Timing Mode = Cumulative

Run this and observe the outcome.  How long does the "A" appear on 
the screen?  How long does the "B" appear?  Look at the results in 
the .edat file.  How long were the OnsetDelays?  How does all that 
compare with the prescribed durations of the stimuli and Sleep?  What 
would happen if you changed the prescribed durations?  Test your 
ideas by running again with different durations for the stimuli & 
Sleep.  What do you conclude about what appears on the screen during 
the OnsetDelay of a stimulus object using Cumulative timing 
mode?  Does it seem that the screen simply keeps showing whatever it 
already showed during this time?

-- David McFarlane


At 11/9/2012 06:37 PM Friday, FrankBank wrote:
>Thanks for your response, I think I'm getting the idea now.  One 
>last question though: if the onset delay lasts several refresh 
>cycles, what do the pixels on a CRT monitor display during this time?

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Tue Nov 13 16:56:54 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:56:54 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <286eb51b-62c5-423c-b6e2-c1b86f097afe@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.085654.0800.>

Hi Frank,
Which version of E-Prime are you using? If you use E-Prime 2, and haven't 
seen it yet, I suggest you download the new (to me) E-Prime 2.0 
Documentation. Especially check the *User's Guide (24MB<http://www.pstnet.com/support/transfer.asp?Location=http%3A//www.pstnet.com/downloads/e-prime/2.0/docs/UsersGuide.zip>
)*. It's critical timing guide is Chapter 4, and I don't think that you 
will find anything there like that 10ms rule of thumb. Also see my 
reference in a previous post to RefreshAlignment, which may significantly 
change things. (I've been unable to find this term, RefreshAlignment,  by 
searching any of the documentation available under the Help menu of E-Prime 
2.0.8.90a, which I'm using now.) As I explained, I don't know enough yet 
about this feature, exactly when it was introduced or how it's applied, to 
know what it all means. I think that PST's inconsistent, unreliable, and 
often untimely documentation has helped confuse us both. The truth may be 
out there, but I haven't found it yet., so I'll say no more, for now.
On Monday, November 12, 2012 4:31:38 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>
>  Hi Scott, I'm going to have to think about some of the issues that you've 
> brought up to get a better handle on them myself.  In short though, please 
> disregard everything I said previously, as I think you are much more likely 
> to know what your talking about than I am at this point.  I apologize for 
> confusing you further, since you are 100% right about the 10ms advice in 
> chapter 3, and for some reason I completely forgot about that.  I was 
> working from memory, and I believe I was recalling the equation on page 90 
> (?) I think.  What that percentage is referring to I really have no idea 
> now.
>
> I do want to thank you though for bringing the 10ms issue to my 
> attention.  I'll have to play around with that further on eprime since I 
> have generally used exact refresh cycle times and gotten millisecond 
> accuracy almost always, but I usually run on a single computer so can see 
> how using multiple terminals with slightly varying refresh cycles could 
> make the 10ms option an important choice.
>
> I'll post again after I've had time to reread chapter 3.  Thanks again 
> Scott and I apologize for making you question your setup.
>

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From ringril at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 17:29:30 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:29:30 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qrqnF0qwH_reQB1Px0VC6EckcGjkk8OY9Qwx1nC5oUoyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.182930.0100.>

Hello,

I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
 with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
perfectly well for our experiment.


If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then

Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
Set theMouseResponseData =
CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
End If

End If

Thanks a lot,
Eszter

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 17:36:39 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:36:39 -0800
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <eef315eb-941e-4040-9031-84494e1e471f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.093639.0800.>

Still working on getting this experiment running. I have run into a bit of 
an issue. I now have two separate programs: 1) my actual 
stimulus/experiment etc, for the experiment and 2) the simultaneous button 
pressing portion (see experiment). when i try to merge the two, i.e. after 
the instructions are presented, I want the the subject to hold down the two 
buttons simultaneously and then move on to the actual experiment portion 
for each trial. (so simultaneous button -> stimulus response, simultaneous 
button -> stimulus response, etc) However, I cannot figure out how order 
them correctly so that it will do one process first and then the other. 
Either I keep getting these weird recursive loops or when I try to run the 
program I think will work, E-Prime force closes. Any assistance would be 
TRULY appreciated. 

Please see links to attachments (get an error when trying to attach to this 
post directly).

actual experiment: 
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B56AfyN3uE-FUUVxMERVYXYxeXM
button press: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B56AfyN3uE-FV0piRzJGUTNLazA


On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into some 
> issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. For my 
> experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down two keys (u 
> and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond to it by releasing 
> one of the two keys and making a movement to another to respond ({TAB} or 
> {END}). Additionally, I would also like to record movement time (time from 
> release of key to response) and reaction time (time of release of one of 
> the initial keys). So far I have already gone in and allowed both Key 
> Presses and Releases. My issue is actually how to get the program to 
> recognize the release of the key and start recording the time, so I decided 
> to use the Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement 
> it. Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit of 
> the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably nowhere near 
> where I need to be:
>
> Dim kbState As Integer
>
> Do
>
> If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
>
> If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> Clock.Read
>
> ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 17:56:15 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:56:15 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.125615.0500.>

1) Yes, the advice in *footnote 10* on p. 99, section 3.4.2.1, of the 
original (& superiror) E-Prime User's Guide still applies:  For exact 
visual stimulus durations, set stimulus Durations at half a refresh 
duration before the desired duration.  (Note that the footnote 
supercedes the "10 ms" rule of thumb in the main text!)

2) You surmise correctly.  If you think through the simple math of 
Cumulative timing mode, you will see that the advice above does *not* 
apply here.  For Cumulative timing mode, the TargetOnsetTime of the 
next stimulus is based on the TargetOnsetTime of the current 
stimulus, which, *by design*, bears no relation to the screen 
refresh.  Timing things by screen refresh works only for stimuli that 
have OnsetSync set to Vertical blank, and use Event timing mode.

And the usual disclaimer:  Test all this for yourself (preferebly 
using a photodetector and oscilloscope), and also consult directly 
with the fine folks at PST Web Support.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)


At 11/10/2012 01:58 PM Saturday, S wrote:
>Thanks for explaining more about  the uses for cumulative timing, I 
>usually use event timing, because that's normally most important to 
>me, but recently have needed to use cumulative timing for 
>longer-term timing accuracy of trial & block durations. I have 
>related questions about  event  and cumulative timing, and combining 
>them. If I have a visual stimulus what I want displayed for 100 ms 
>(6 refresh cycles at 60 hz) and use event timing for this object, 
>E-Prime documentation recommends setting the duration of that object 
>to 90 ms to minimize the chance that E-Prime will miss detecting a 
>refresh (a little more than half a fresh cycle to watch for the next 
>vertical blank). I've tested this, and on our PCs I've found that it 
>does reduce missed refreshes (though I've found subtracting 5 rather 
>than 10 ms works more consistently).  If I set the visual display 
>duration to 100 ms, the onset to onset time (to the following 
>object) will occasionally be 116 ms, but that almost never happens 
>if I set the duration to 90 or 95 ms. I have the following two 
>questions about event and cumulative timings:
>    * Is this adjustment (setting duration to about half a refresh 
> less than desired target duration) generally a good practice to 
> achieve the most consistent event timing durations for visual displays?
>    * How does this practice need to be reconsidered when using a 
> combination of event and cumulative timings? I've used only one or 
> the other, and have always set duration to the exact value I want 
> when using cumulative timing, but usually 5 ms less when using 
> event timing (combined with onset syncs and no clear after).
>-- Thanks for advice and suggestions (which I promise to test before 
>using in my experiments).
>
>On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:16:26 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's
>why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just
>think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some
>exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in
>the .edat files, and it should all make sense.
>
>Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to
>Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then
>stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S
>will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were
>not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties
>of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use
>Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each
>one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their
>Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or
>equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your
>other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of
>OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event.
>
>BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge:
>
>      Const  SDuration as Long = 1000
>      Dim  t0 as Long
>      t0 = Clock.Read
>      ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...>
>      c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0)
>
>And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of
>bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the
>fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of
>the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not
>even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the
>past myself).
>
>I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the
>manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure
>that everything makes sense to you.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote:
> >Hi David,
> >Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file
> >(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it
> >all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it.
> >
> >In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's
> >guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The
> >reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only-
> >was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is
> >blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to
> >me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous
> >slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it
> >was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode
> >during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay +
> >slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration
> >(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials.
> >
> >The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and
> >I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these
> >seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset
> >delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some
> >anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their
> >durations equivalent.
> >
> >I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if
> >that's the case.
> >thanks again,
> >Frank

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 18:12:26 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:12:26 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <b71c84cf-4756-4162-9c0e-49a653950268@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.131226.0500.>

Ignore the "created" & "updated" dates on PST KB articles, they 
sometimes draft those for internal documentation years before they 
implement the feature, and then take more time to release the 
implemented feature to the public.  KB articles often include a note 
on which versions they apply to, but that is missing from this 
article.  If you want to make a fuss about it, add an End User 
Comment to the article.

Anyway, this feature was introduced with either 2.0.10.182 or 
2.0.10.242.  With care, this feature may automate the "rule of thumb" 
insofar as it automatically advances the effective TargetOnsetTimes 
by a proportion that you specify.  But you still have to think 
through what stimulus Durations to prescribe in order to get your 
desired durations, and what actual durations will result from any 
prescribed stimulus Duration.  And then make sure to log needed time 
audit measures, and inspect those; better yet, test everything with a 
photodector & oscilloscope.

Finally, if PST documented this anywhere outside of the KB, then it 
would be in the New Features Guide that comes with the latest 
E-Prime.  Take a look there, I have not looked thoroughly at that myself yet.

-- David McFarlane


At 11/11/2012 07:04 PM Sunday, Scott wrote:
>OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
>
>
><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>3027 - FEATURE: 
>RefreshAlignment locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to 
>promote timing accuracy
>
>
>
>It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE 
>the production release, since this KB article seemed to have been 
>originally posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently 
>updated 1/4/2012 4:10:00 PM (GMT). I don't see any extended 
>discussions of this change, or exactly when it occurred, from a 
>quick search of this forum for RefreshAlignment. However, your analysis,
>FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of 
>RefreshAlignment when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" . 
>This feature change may have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first 
>introduced and I overlooked it and the potential consequences of 
>continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for E-Prime 1.  Again, I 
>apologize for my confusion, and for interjecting confusion into this 
>forum. I'm not sorry to discover my error, however, and to learn 
>things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly. Thanks!
>
>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
>discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. 
>Please note that I have NOT yet upgraded to the 
><http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>E-Prime 
>2.0 Production Release; I'm still using E-Prime 2.0 Professional 
>Release Candidate Build 2.0.8.90a to avoid potential compatibility 
>problems with programs our lab is current running, at least until I 
>become more familiar with the changes. Obviously, some of the 
>documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I posted are 
>not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any 
>reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's 
>guide. Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further 
>information column" does mention and provide the following link:
><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025>KB 3025 INFO: Fast/Single
>Refresh Presentation in
>E-Prime
>This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion 
>(which I've underlined) as before, under Important Points:
>As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, the general rule of thumb 
>when working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the 
>intended duration to account for delays that result from waiting for 
>the next vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, 
>alone, may help you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>
>When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find 
>anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this 
>unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. 
>Nevertheless, I have found that following this rule can help 
>minimize missed vertical blanks and the occasional extra refresh 
>cycle for E-Prime version 2.0.8.90a, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, 
>even for display durations longer than 1 or 2 refresh cycles. 
>Obviously I need to carefully read the latest documentation and 
>learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, before I 
>say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
>Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the 
>confusion. Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I 
>admit I don't carefully read every post on this form, nor have I 
>searched for other posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of 
>thumb". I will do that asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>
>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting 
>one object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use
>Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I 
>was asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry 
>if I've confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with 
>another question (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I 
>suppose David will explain how simple math can answer my question. 
>I've been reluctant to mix timing modes in a trial or experiment 
>because I wasn't sure about how to set durations for various objects 
>set for different timing modes. I thought that the documentation 
>recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting the "stimulus 
>duration to 10ms below the expected total duration..." to obtain the 
>most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event durations for 
>EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only 
>apply to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure 
>about what to do when combining the two timing modes. Do you ignore 
>this "rule of thumb" even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, 
>or have I just confused you (and maybe everyone else) by 
>interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this discussion of 
>CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I expect 
>David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the answer 
>is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test 
>combinations of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>
>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done 
>for EVENT timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take 
>this into account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event 
>and cumulative timings. Based on your response, I still might be 
>saying something wrong -- if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I 
>really thought that this ~10 ms 'adjustment' was obvious in the 
>documentation, though I also know that the documentation is old and 
>could be outdated, and one cannot always just following anyone's 
>advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in bold in the 
>E-Prime User's Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing (page 99):
>The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to 
>specify in E-Prime is as follows:
>Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number 
>of cycles) - 10ms
>Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because 
>one can never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 
>hz (or anything else).
>
>This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for 
>EVENT timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of 
>Chapter 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was trying to 
>say, please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone 
>please explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except 
>in certain circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing 
>with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have more current documentation, 
>FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO timings in your data when 
>you have used EVENT timing mode, across several hundred trials or so 
>when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 100 ms? If it always 
>works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), then I suppose 
>there's no reason to do it differently.
>
>On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible 
>your refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If 
>so then when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times 
>maybe that's because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is 
>slightly higher than 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something 
>a little less than 100 ms (based on my previous post about 
>percentages).  Then, when you drop it to say 90 or 95 ms you are 
>under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a very high 
>percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like this 
>is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you 
>will have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all 
>trials.  Just an idea.

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From ringril at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 18:18:33 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:18:33 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.191833.0100.>

Hello,

So, once again :)
I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
 with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
perfectly well for our experiment.




If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then

Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
Set theMouseResponseData =
CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
End If

End If


Thanks a lot,
Eszter

* *

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 19:41:40 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:41:40 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <50a28d97.078bec0a.0ddf.431aSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.144140.0500.>

Well, I just flipped through the New Features Guide, and indeed this 
feature is covered there on p. 15, section 3.4, and I think that 
makes it clearer than does the KB article.  I suppose it pays to read 
what documentation PST actually does provide with the product :).

-- David McFarlane


At 11/13/2012 01:12 PM Tuesday, David McFarlane wrote:
>Ignore the "created" & "updated" dates on PST KB articles, they 
>sometimes draft those for internal documentation years before they 
>implement the feature, and then take more time to release the 
>implemented feature to the public.  KB articles often include a note 
>on which versions they apply to, but that is missing from this 
>article.  If you want to make a fuss about it, add an End User 
>Comment to the article.
>
>Anyway, this feature was introduced with either 2.0.10.182 or 
>2.0.10.242.  With care, this feature may automate the "rule of 
>thumb" insofar as it automatically advances the effective 
>TargetOnsetTimes by a proportion that you specify.  But you still 
>have to think through what stimulus Durations to prescribe in order 
>to get your desired durations, and what actual durations will result 
>from any prescribed stimulus Duration.  And then make sure to log 
>needed time audit measures, and inspect those; better yet, test 
>everything with a photodector & oscilloscope.
>
>Finally, if PST documented this anywhere outside of the KB, then it 
>would be in the New Features Guide that comes with the latest 
>E-Prime.  Take a look there, I have not looked thoroughly at that myself yet.
>
>-- David McFarlane
>
>
>At 11/11/2012 07:04 PM Sunday, Scott wrote:
>>OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
>>
>>
>><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>3027 - FEATURE: 
>>RefreshAlignment locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to 
>>promote timing accuracy
>>
>>
>>
>>It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE 
>>the production release, since this KB article seemed to have been 
>>originally posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently 
>>updated 1/4/2012 4:10:00 PM (GMT). I don't see any extended 
>>discussions of this change, or exactly when it occurred, from a 
>>quick search of this forum for RefreshAlignment. However, your analysis,
>>FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of 
>>RefreshAlignment when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" 
>>. This feature change may have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first 
>>introduced and I overlooked it and the potential consequences of 
>>continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for E-Prime 1.  Again, I 
>>apologize for my confusion, and for interjecting confusion into 
>>this forum. I'm not sorry to discover my error, however, and to 
>>learn things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly. Thanks!
>>
>>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
>>discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. 
>>Please note that I have NOT yet upgraded to the 
>><http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>E-Prime 
>>  2.0 Production Release; I'm still using E-Prime 2.0 Professional 
>>Release Candidate Build 2.0.8.90a to avoid potential compatibility 
>>problems with programs our lab is current running, at least until I 
>>become more familiar with the changes. Obviously, some of the 
>>documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I posted are 
>>not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any 
>>reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's 
>>guide. Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further 
>>information column" does mention and provide the following link:
>><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025>KB 3025 INFO: Fast/Single
>>Refresh Presentation in
>>E-Prime
>>This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion 
>>(which I've underlined) as before, under Important Points:
>>As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, the general rule of thumb 
>>when working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the 
>>intended duration to account for delays that result from waiting 
>>for the next vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). 
>>This, alone, may help you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>>
>>When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't 
>>find anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes 
>>this unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. 
>>Nevertheless, I have found that following this rule can help 
>>minimize missed vertical blanks and the occasional extra refresh 
>>cycle for E-Prime version 2.0.8.90a, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, 
>>even for display durations longer than 1 or 2 refresh cycles. 
>>Obviously I need to carefully read the latest documentation and 
>>learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, before I 
>>say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
>>Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the 
>>confusion. Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I 
>>admit I don't carefully read every post on this form, nor have I 
>>searched for other posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of 
>>thumb". I will do that asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>>
>>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting 
>>one object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use
>>Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so 
>>I was asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm 
>>sorry if I've confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode 
>>with another question (meant to be related) about Event timing 
>>mode. I suppose David will explain how simple math can answer my 
>>question. I've been reluctant to mix timing modes in a trial or 
>>experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set durations for 
>>various objects set for different timing modes. I thought that the 
>>documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting the 
>>"stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration..." to 
>>obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event 
>>durations for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" 
>>should only apply to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm 
>>more unsure about what to do when combining the two timing modes. 
>>Do you ignore this "rule of thumb" even when using only EVENT 
>>timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused you (and maybe everyone 
>>else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this discussion of 
>>CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I 
>>expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and 
>>the answer is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to 
>>test combinations of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>>
>>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done 
>>for EVENT timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take 
>>this into account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of 
>>event and cumulative timings. Based on your response, I still might 
>>be saying something wrong -- if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I 
>>really thought that this ~10 ms 'adjustment' was obvious in the 
>>documentation, though I also know that the documentation is old and 
>>could be outdated, and one cannot always just following anyone's 
>>advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in bold in the 
>>E-Prime User's Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing (page 99):
>>The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to 
>>specify in E-Prime is as follows:
>>Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number 
>>of cycles) - 10ms
>>Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because 
>>one can never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 
>>hz (or anything else).
>>
>>This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>>documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, 
>>for EVENT timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of 
>>Chapter 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was trying 
>>to say, please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, 
>>someone please explain and set me straight. I usually have done 
>>this (except in certain circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and 
>>continuing with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have more current 
>>documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO timings in 
>>your data when you have used EVENT timing mode, across several 
>>hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 
>>100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh 
>>cycles), then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>>
>>On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible 
>>your refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very 
>>close?  If so then when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 
>>ms times maybe that's because the actual refresh rate of your 
>>monitor is slightly higher than 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 
>>= something a little less than 100 ms (based on my previous post 
>>about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to say 90 or 95 ms you 
>>are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a very high 
>>percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like this 
>>is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles 
>>is in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly 
>>you will have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across 
>>all trials.  Just an idea.

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 20:19:38 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:19:38 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qpyH3cFecgiJt5Tj7qPFyB4HPOii2C4weEwGd+mESpSsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.211938.0100.>

Hi Eszter,

You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to set
the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the advanced
button and edit max count). Then use the following script after the
stimulus object:

Dim iResponse As Integer
For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
    Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
    Set theMouseResponseData =
CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
    If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
        c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
theMouseResponseData.CursorX
        c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
theMouseResponseData.CursorY
        c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
theMouseResponseData.RT
    End If
Next

I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
working example.

Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to handle
the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more compact
edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate attribute
names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you could
implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the selected
objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a specific object
was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is slightly more complex
if response time recording should be accurate.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Paul


2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>

> Hello,
>
> So, once again :)
> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
> response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
> pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
> on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
> clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
>  with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
> perfectly well for our experiment.
>
>
>
>
> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>
> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
> Set theMouseResponseData =
> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
> End If
>
> End If
>
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Eszter
>
> * *
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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>
>
>

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From nockmss at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 10:22:20 2012
From: nockmss at gmail.com (Justin)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:22:20 +0000
Subject: Digest for e-prime@googlegroups.com - 9 Messages in 3 Topics
In-Reply-To: <90e6ba3fcd977eabb604ce71a775@google.com>
Message-ID: <WED.14.NOV.2012.102220.0000.>



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From ringril at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 11:01:18 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:01:18 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-vBO9eK9b9jgLK1ZDwyDwn5f2qzdKoWCE2kyY4vODu75Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.120118.0100.>

Dear Paul,

thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in this case,
because we only get the x and y coordinates for the clicks whereas we need
to compare this with the small pictures coordinates on the screen.
I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) pinpoint
the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) picture within
the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial and 3) then we want the
program to decide whether the click of the responder was correct or not.
We thought that we might use something like an *if "mouse coordinate is XY"
< x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO. * Sorry for the form, but
unfortunately I still don’t know this language.

I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.

Thanks a lot in advance!!!
All the best,
Eszter


2012/11/13 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>

> Hi Eszter,
>
> You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to set
> the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the advanced
> button and edit max count). Then use the following script after the
> stimulus object:
>
> Dim iResponse As Integer
> For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>     Set theMouseResponseData =
> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
> theMouseResponseData.RT
>     End If
> Next
>
> I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
> too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
> working example.
>
> Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to
> handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more
> compact edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate
> attribute names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you
> could implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the
> selected objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a
> specific object was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is
> slightly more complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
>
> 2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> So, once again :)
>> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
>> response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
>> pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
>> on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
>> clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
>>  with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
>> perfectly well for our experiment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>>
>> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>> Set theMouseResponseData =
>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>> End If
>>
>> End If
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>> Eszter
>>
>> * *
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
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> "E-Prime" group.
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> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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>
>
>

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From jonybony at gmx.de  Thu Nov 15 13:03:15 2012
From: jonybony at gmx.de (dietrijx)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:03:15 -0800
Subject: Simulate a key press to end a slide object similar to the
 WaitForFixation package
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.050315.0800.>

Hey,
I would like to program a script similar to the TETWaitForFixation 
PackageCall.
As far as I know, the WaitForFixation PackageCall keeps track of the 
subject’s gaze by actively accessing the .gazedata information. Once the 
gaze has been on the specified Sub-Object of the fixation slide for a 
predetermined amount of time a key press will be simulated, terminating the 
underlying loop and thus moving on with the rest of the experiment.
I would like to use a different algorithm that counts fixations and after a 
predetermined maximum count is reached the rest of the experiment should go 
on.
In addition I would like measure the RT either if the maximum count is 
reached or if the subject pressed a button to terminate the slide before 
the maximum count is reached. Like the WaitForFixation package call does.
The code for the new algorithm is not the problem, but I do not know how to 
terminate the slide and capture the RT once the maximum count is reached. 
Is there something like Slide.terminate to end the slide? Or is there a way 
to simulate a key press when the count is reached, like the WaitForFixation 
package call does when the predetermined amount of time is reached?
Then I could simulate the key press within the code of accumulated 
fixations and terminate the trial on keypress and get the RT.

So, do you know how I can simulate a key press to end a slide object?

Thank you in advance.
Jonas

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From marykatetompkins at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 17:28:38 2012
From: marykatetompkins at gmail.com (MKT)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:28:38 -0800
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.092838.0800.>

We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two sites 
(OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any additional noise in 
the data or run into problems.

We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on Windows 7. 
Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about refresh rates? Is 
there a particular refresh rate you recommend?

Thanks for your help!

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov 15 21:35:51 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:35:51 -0500
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
In-Reply-To: <ac532153-6b71-415d-a12b-9f2721038530@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.163551.0500.>

Mary Kate,

Good question, I hope others weigh in.  Here are my thoughts.

Obviously, the more uniform the better.  So one might turn the 
question around and ask how much nonuniformity is too much.  And that 
will depend largely on the timing demands of the study, some studies 
have more stringent requirements than others.

Offhand, I would say that as long as each of your computer setups can 
robustly deliver millisecond-quality times, you should be OK.  You 
can and should test each one with the RefreshClockTest that you can 
download from PST, see Chapter 3 of the original User's Guide, or 
Chapter 4 of the revised version.  Bear in mind that RefreshClockTest 
just tests whether the system can keep up with the onboard 
millisecond clock, it does not test the accuracy of the clock per se, 
for that you would need to compare times with an external time 
standard.  In any case, you at least want all your machines to pass 
RefreshClockTest.

Matching refresh rates again depends on your timing requirements.  To 
take an example, If you have one display running at 60 Hz (refresh 
period = 16.7 ms) and another at 75 Hz (refresh period = 13.3 ms), 
and you ask for a Duration of 200 ms, then the one display will 
actually give you either 183 or 200 ms, while the other screen will 
give you either 199 ms or 213 ms.  You will have to decide whether 
that is acceptable.  Note that the production release (EP2.0.10.242) 
allows you to request a refresh rate 
(http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3465 ).  No guarantee 
that you will get what you ask, so still look at the value measured 
by E-Prime & reported in the .edat file.  (And go with the value 
measured by E-Prime, do not trust the refresh rate reported by Windows.)

I do not have any particular refresh rate to recommend, I do not run 
studies myself (I am a Systems Designer who helps others do their 
research), and I am embarrassed to say that I have never asked others 
what refresh rates they use, I will have to ask around.  Offhand it 
seems that faster is better as you get more exact times.  OTOH, I 
often tend toward lowest common denominators for greater 
compatibility, and for that reason might stick down at 60 Hz.  In 
truth, rightly or wrongly, I think we mostly just take whatever 
refresh rate we get and don't think about it.

You already plan to use the same size monitors at all sites, and I 
presume use the same display resolution.  I trust you will also seat 
subjects at the same distance so that visual stimuli subtend the same 
visual angle for all subjects.

Note that none of this affects the accuracy of response times, 
E-Prime has a very robust mechanism for gettting responses which is 
independent of the mechansims for presenting stimuli.

Now after all that, here is the short answer (Michiel, would like to 
chime in here?):  Chances are that whatever human behavior you 
measure has more variance than your measurement system.  That's not 
an excuse for getting sloppy when you can be exact, but maybe we need 
not fret too much about this; others have done statistical 
calculations to show that we can compensate for variance introduced 
by our measuring system merely by running a few more subjects (sorry, 
I don't have a citation handy).

So what do the rest of you think?  For that matter, what do others actually do?

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)


At 11/15/2012 12:28 PM Thursday, MKT wrote:
>We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two 
>sites (OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any 
>additional noise in the data or run into problems.
>
>We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on 
>Windows 7. Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about 
>refresh rates? Is there a particular refresh rate you recommend?
>
>Thanks for your help!

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 00:43:06 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 01:43:06 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qr0sN+HEWuS_Ve=EiW80U3Q1k3vMmdM=M0Sto1XF3=DPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.NOV.2012.014306.0100.>

Hi again Eszter,

There are several way's to do this, but assuming your bitmap pictures are
drawn unstretched in the middle of the screen (and have fixed dimensions),
then you could try something like this (be warned, this will be uggly):

        Const N_x As Integer = 4 ' number of images hor.
        Const N_y As Integer = 4 ' number of images vert.
        Const size_x As Long = 1000 ' width of bitmap in pixels
        Const size_y As Long = 776  ' height of bitmap in pixels
        Dim offset_x As Long
        Dim offset_y As Long
        Dim index_x As Integer
        Dim index_y As Integer
        Dim delta_x As Long
        Dim delta_y As Long
        offset_x = (size_x - Display.XRes)/2
        delta_x = size_x / N_x
        index_x = (theMouseResponseData.CursorX-offset_x)/delta_x
        offset_y = (size_y - Display.YRes) / 2
        delta_y = size_y / N_y
        index_y = (theMouseResponseData.CursorY-offset_y)/delta_y

        Dim index As Integer
        index = (index_y-1)*N_x+index_x
        debug.print "I=" & index & "  (" & index_x & "," & index_y & ")"

You could put this inside the if-then-endif part to get the subimage
indices of the selected images (ranging from 1 to 16; counting row-by-row)
The next thing to do would be a simple test if the indices match the
correct answer. Normally you would but the correct answer as attributes in
the trial list. However, because all 8 clicks are handled within a single
trial, you would have to specify the correct indices for all 8 clicks as 8
separate attributes (i.e. 'CorrectCLick.1', 'CorrectCLick.2' etc.).

        Dim correct_index As Integer
        correct_index = CInt(c.GetAttrib("CorrectClick." & CStr(iResponse)))
        c.SetAttrib "ClickACC." & CStr(iResponse), IIf(index =
correct_index, 1, 0)

I'm sure there are dozens of bugs in this code, but this is the general
idea if your stimulus is a single bitmap image. As said before, this is not
a very elegant piece of work. And there still things going wrong here (for
example: the black borders are also treated as valid subimage area). A more
elegant way would be to use a hidden bitmap that has a color map that
mappes the valid subimage areas to a subimage number. Then a simple
getpixel-call would return the selected image. (Also works for
non-rectangular areas.) Another option would be to use a slide with 4x4
separate slide images. This would also simplify the script because EStudio
has a special HitTest function that can be used to test which object was
selected.


Cheers
Paul


2012/11/15 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>

> Dear Paul,
>
> thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
> However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in this
> case, because we only get the x and y coordinates for the clicks whereas we
> need to compare this with the small pictures coordinates on the screen.
> I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) pinpoint
> the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) picture within
> the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial and 3) then we want the
> program to decide whether the click of the responder was correct or not.
> We thought that we might use something like an *if "mouse coordinate is
> XY" < x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO. * Sorry for the form, but
> unfortunately I still don’t know this language.
>
> I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.
>
> Thanks a lot in advance!!!
> All the best,
> Eszter
>
>
> 2012/11/13 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>
>> Hi Eszter,
>>
>> You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to set
>> the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the advanced
>> button and edit max count). Then use the following script after the
>> stimulus object:
>>
>> Dim iResponse As Integer
>> For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>     Set theMouseResponseData =
>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
>> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
>> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
>> theMouseResponseData.RT
>>     End If
>> Next
>>
>> I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
>> too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
>> working example.
>>
>> Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to
>> handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more
>> compact edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate
>> attribute names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you
>> could implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the
>> selected objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a
>> specific object was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is
>> slightly more complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>>
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> So, once again :)
>>> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple
>>> mouse response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of
>>> several pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked
>>> to click on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to
>>> them (8 clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's
>>> coordinates  with the modification of the script linked below, which in
>>> fact works perfectly well for our experiment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>>>
>>> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>> Set theMouseResponseData =
>>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>>> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>> End If
>>>
>>> End If
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>> Eszter
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Fri Nov 16 15:44:11 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:44:11 -0800
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
In-Reply-To: <50a5603a.8768320a.4292.411cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.NOV.2012.074411.0800.>

Keeping in mind David's initial assessment, that concerns depend on the 
study paradigms and research questions, I think we also need to ask whether 
the two labs both use CRT or LCD monitors. If the latter, it might be more 
important to use the same monitors than the same computers. Sorry if I'm 
opening a can of worms, but admit I'm fishing for advice about this myself.

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:35:56 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Mary Kate, 
>
> Good question, I hope others weigh in.  Here are my thoughts. 
>
> Obviously, the more uniform the better.  So one might turn the 
> question around and ask how much nonuniformity is too much.  And that 
> will depend largely on the timing demands of the study, some studies 
> have more stringent requirements than others. 
>
> Offhand, I would say that as long as each of your computer setups can 
> robustly deliver millisecond-quality times, you should be OK.  You 
> can and should test each one with the RefreshClockTest that you can 
> download from PST, see Chapter 3 of the original User's Guide, or 
> Chapter 4 of the revised version.  Bear in mind that RefreshClockTest 
> just tests whether the system can keep up with the onboard 
> millisecond clock, it does not test the accuracy of the clock per se, 
> for that you would need to compare times with an external time 
> standard.  In any case, you at least want all your machines to pass 
> RefreshClockTest. 
>
> Matching refresh rates again depends on your timing requirements.  To 
> take an example, If you have one display running at 60 Hz (refresh 
> period = 16.7 ms) and another at 75 Hz (refresh period = 13.3 ms), 
> and you ask for a Duration of 200 ms, then the one display will 
> actually give you either 183 or 200 ms, while the other screen will 
> give you either 199 ms or 213 ms.  You will have to decide whether 
> that is acceptable.  Note that the production release (EP2.0.10.242) 
> allows you to request a refresh rate 
> (http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3465 ).  No guarantee 
> that you will get what you ask, so still look at the value measured 
> by E-Prime & reported in the .edat file.  (And go with the value 
> measured by E-Prime, do not trust the refresh rate reported by Windows.) 
>
> I do not have any particular refresh rate to recommend, I do not run 
> studies myself (I am a Systems Designer who helps others do their 
> research), and I am embarrassed to say that I have never asked others 
> what refresh rates they use, I will have to ask around.  Offhand it 
> seems that faster is better as you get more exact times.  OTOH, I 
> often tend toward lowest common denominators for greater 
> compatibility, and for that reason might stick down at 60 Hz.  In 
> truth, rightly or wrongly, I think we mostly just take whatever 
> refresh rate we get and don't think about it. 
>
> You already plan to use the same size monitors at all sites, and I 
> presume use the same display resolution.  I trust you will also seat 
> subjects at the same distance so that visual stimuli subtend the same 
> visual angle for all subjects. 
>
> Note that none of this affects the accuracy of response times, 
> E-Prime has a very robust mechanism for gettting responses which is 
> independent of the mechansims for presenting stimuli. 
>
> Now after all that, here is the short answer (Michiel, would like to 
> chime in here?):  Chances are that whatever human behavior you 
> measure has more variance than your measurement system.  That's not 
> an excuse for getting sloppy when you can be exact, but maybe we need 
> not fret too much about this; others have done statistical 
> calculations to show that we can compensate for variance introduced 
> by our measuring system merely by running a few more subjects (sorry, 
> I don't have a citation handy). 
>
> So what do the rest of you think?  For that matter, what do others 
> actually do? 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
> At 11/15/2012 12:28 PM Thursday, MKT wrote: 
> >We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two 
> >sites (OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any 
> >additional noise in the data or run into problems. 
> > 
> >We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on 
> >Windows 7. Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about 
> >refresh rates? Is there a particular refresh rate you recommend? 
> > 
> >Thanks for your help! 
>
>

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From ringril at gmail.com  Sat Nov 17 17:59:41 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:59:41 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-uo8pp+6n0m0sNjraVdpgjQYLjZOyxqx0ZpEKimsKk1uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.NOV.2012.185941.0100.>

Dear Paul,

please don't get tired of my stupid questions... I have two more.:)


1)  I could not make this previous one work, so I decided to go into your
suggestion and ask how can I set up a slide that you have already
mentioned. I had this idea on my mind when I had started to plan the
experiment, but I thought that I will be challenging and hard to make
approximately 30 slides. But now I understood that the analysis of the data
will be a pain and even harder with this design, so I would be grateful if
you could explain how can I switch to the latter solution.

2) The second and most shamefully easy question would be in connection with
mouse hiding. I want the cursor to be hidden through the part, when the
program just shows the pictures. If it is there the cursor can be
distracting in a visual paradigm like this. However, I really need the
mouse to be shown when we ask for and register mouse response (through the
exposition of the grid exercise). I found this in the help, but I'm a
starter (it was a week ago when I first saw the programme.. ), and I don't
know how could I make this work.


'This example loops through the available mouse cursors.

'EXAMPLE PART A

Instructions.Text = "Press the spacebar to \n begin " &_

"the mouse cursors demo..."

'EXAMPLE PART B

Display.Canvas.Clear

Display.Canvas.Text 0, 0, "Display the available mouse cursors..."

Mouse.ShowCursor True

Dim i As Integer

For i = 1 to 13

Mouse.ShowCursor False

Mouse.Cursor = i

Mouse.SetCursorPos Display.XRes/2, 20

Mouse.ShowCursor True

Display.Canvas.Text 50, 25, "Current mouse " &_

"cursor value = " & Mouse.Cursor

Sleep 2000

Next i

Display.Canvas.Clear

Mouse.ShowCursor False

c.SetAttrib "Stimulus", "End of cursors demonstration "

StimDisplay.Run

'terminate the rest of the experiment

StimDisplay.Duration = 0 'do not display the normal StimDisplay

List1.Terminate 'do not cycle

'Note: To run this example with E-BasicExample.es, copy the script in
'EXAMPLE PART A above and paste it into the Setup InLine object. Next
'copy the script in EXAMPLE PART B above and paste it into the Before
'InLine object.


Thanks a lot!!!!!!

Eszter




2012/11/16 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>

> Hi again Eszter,
>
> There are several way's to do this, but assuming your bitmap pictures are
> drawn unstretched in the middle of the screen (and have fixed dimensions),
> then you could try something like this (be warned, this will be uggly):
>
>         Const N_x As Integer = 4 ' number of images hor.
>         Const N_y As Integer = 4 ' number of images vert.
>         Const size_x As Long = 1000 ' width of bitmap in pixels
>         Const size_y As Long = 776  ' height of bitmap in pixels
>         Dim offset_x As Long
>         Dim offset_y As Long
>         Dim index_x As Integer
>         Dim index_y As Integer
>         Dim delta_x As Long
>         Dim delta_y As Long
>         offset_x = (size_x - Display.XRes)/2
>         delta_x = size_x / N_x
>         index_x = (theMouseResponseData.CursorX-offset_x)/delta_x
>         offset_y = (size_y - Display.YRes) / 2
>         delta_y = size_y / N_y
>         index_y = (theMouseResponseData.CursorY-offset_y)/delta_y
>
>         Dim index As Integer
>         index = (index_y-1)*N_x+index_x
>         debug.print "I=" & index & "  (" & index_x & "," & index_y & ")"
>
> You could put this inside the if-then-endif part to get the subimage
> indices of the selected images (ranging from 1 to 16; counting row-by-row)
> The next thing to do would be a simple test if the indices match the
> correct answer. Normally you would but the correct answer as attributes in
> the trial list. However, because all 8 clicks are handled within a single
> trial, you would have to specify the correct indices for all 8 clicks as 8
> separate attributes (i.e. 'CorrectCLick.1', 'CorrectCLick.2' etc.).
>
>         Dim correct_index As Integer
>         correct_index = CInt(c.GetAttrib("CorrectClick." &
> CStr(iResponse)))
>         c.SetAttrib "ClickACC." & CStr(iResponse), IIf(index =
> correct_index, 1, 0)
>
> I'm sure there are dozens of bugs in this code, but this is the general
> idea if your stimulus is a single bitmap image. As said before, this is not
> a very elegant piece of work. And there still things going wrong here (for
> example: the black borders are also treated as valid subimage area). A more
> elegant way would be to use a hidden bitmap that has a color map that
> mappes the valid subimage areas to a subimage number. Then a simple
> getpixel-call would return the selected image. (Also works for
> non-rectangular areas.) Another option would be to use a slide with 4x4
> separate slide images. This would also simplify the script because EStudio
> has a special HitTest function that can be used to test which object was
> selected.
>
>
> Cheers
> Paul
>
>
>
> 2012/11/15 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>
>> Dear Paul,
>>
>> thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
>> However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in this
>> case, because we only get the x and y coordinates for the clicks whereas we
>> need to compare this with the small pictures coordinates on the screen.
>> I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) pinpoint
>> the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) picture within
>> the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial and 3) then we want the
>> program to decide whether the click of the responder was correct or not.
>> We thought that we might use something like an *if "mouse coordinate is
>> XY" < x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO. * Sorry for the form, but
>> unfortunately I still don’t know this language.
>>
>> I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.
>>
>> Thanks a lot in advance!!!
>> All the best,
>> Eszter
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/13 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Hi Eszter,
>>>
>>> You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to
>>> set the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the
>>> advanced button and edit max count). Then use the following script after
>>> the stimulus object:
>>>
>>> Dim iResponse As Integer
>>> For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>>>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>>     Set theMouseResponseData =
>>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>>>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
>>> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
>>> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
>>> theMouseResponseData.RT
>>>     End If
>>> Next
>>>
>>> I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
>>> too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
>>> working example.
>>>
>>> Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to
>>> handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more
>>> compact edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate
>>> attribute names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you
>>> could implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the
>>> selected objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a
>>> specific object was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is
>>> slightly more complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>>  Hello,
>>>>
>>>> So, once again :)
>>>> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple
>>>> mouse response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of
>>>> several pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked
>>>> to click on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to
>>>> them (8 clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's
>>>> coordinates  with the modification of the script linked below, which in
>>>> fact works perfectly well for our experiment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>>>>
>>>> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>>> Set theMouseResponseData =
>>>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>>>> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>>> End If
>>>>
>>>> End If
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot,
>>>> Eszter
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  --
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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Mon Nov 19 08:06:06 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:06:06 -0800
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
In-Reply-To: <50a5603a.8768320a.4292.411cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.000606.0800.>

Hi Mary Kate,

I want to better explain my previous post (about LCD monitors) and reply 
more specifically to David's questions.

We are starting up a collaboration study with another lab. I'm responsible 
for helping design tasks and write the E-Prime programs, which include 
several programs with only behavioral measures and one that will also 
include ERP measures.

I'm not the PI; I have considerable input but don't have the final say 
about anything. Like you, I want to minimize noise and especially 
measurement bias between the two labs. I want to be practical and realistic 
regarding these goals. I agree with most everything David has said. I'm 
asking that factors that are easy to control and might affect performance 
and/or measurement be consistent between the two sites, including things 
you've already mentioned, like monitor size and resolution (also determined 
by E-Prime device settings) and operating systems. I also want to ensure we 
use the same refresh rate (60 hz), so I know how to set stimulus durations, 
and both sites will use the same version of E-Prime to run subjects. We'll 
check both PCs using E-Pime's timing tests, and if they pass I won't worry 
more about how similar the computers are.

I'm less sure than David about how robust E-Prime is with regard to 
measuring response times independent of the mechanisms for presenting 
stimuli. Both labs will be using the same kinds of USB button boxes (maybe 
not as precise as the PST SRBox, but it's consistent and convenient). I 
only encountered a difficult choice when it came to the computer monitors. 
E-Prime can accurately and reliably control and measure presentations of 
visual displays on a CRT monitor, and all CRT monitors work about the same 
(afaik). However, both labs use LCD monitors (I have no say about this), 
and LCDs monitors are more varied and complicated, especially with regard 
to timings. This has been discussed a before in post about *LCD monitors 
and Input lag* in this<https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/e-prime/lcd/e-prime/-Sn4BM61pVc/1RyXS8GTHaIJ>thread and maybe others. It's not easy to measure input lag. The refresh 
detector of PST's SRBox does not work reliably with LCD monitors (unless 
someone can tell me how to make it work). Onscreen timers and high-speed 
cameras are often used, along with photocells and oscilloscopes, but they 
all require extra equipment, time, and trouble. Moreover, there are 
questions about the implementation and accuracy of most of these methods. In 
fact, a rather thorough analysis by Thomas Thiemann, here<http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/specials/inputlag/inputlag.html>
, concludes: 

   - ...it is not an option to achieve a precise value for the image 
   processing time in the monitor using a camera. It is only possible to 
   indicate approximate areas in which the input lag of the monitor is likely 
   to be encountered, but subject to a rather large error. An evaluation of 
   the input lags of monitors using the photo method should thus lead to 
   sorting into rough classes such as the following:
      - - probably less than 1 frame lag / less than 16 ms lag
      - - probably one to two frames lag / 16 ms to 32 ms lag
      - - the lag is probably greater than two frames / greater than 32 ms.
   
Now I'm not sure E-Prime's RT measures would necessarily reflect this range 
of variability, but if so, it's more difference between labs than I'm 
comfortable with. Therefore, we decided to purchase the same new LCD 
monitors for both labs, hoping that that they probably would exhibit about 
the same amount of lag so that RTs and stimulus onset times would be 
displaced about the same amount in the measurements and recording of both 
labs. This was the best I could figure to do, for now, so we can get on 
with our research. In the meantime, I have someone working on a photocell 
circuit to connect to our EEG headbox that might allow me to measure the 
stimulus onset lags of our systems.

If you are using CRT monitors, good for you -- none of this matters. I'm 
not sure how much it matters, even if you do use LCD monitors. I would love 
for someone to explain why "LCD input lag" makes little or no difference 
for most research paradigms, and convince me I've no reasons to worry about 
this. I just thought I should share my concerns and some information that 
might be relevant to you and/or other researchers. I'd like to hear what 
others think. -- Thanks.

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:35:56 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Mary Kate, 
>
> Good question, I hope others weigh in.  Here are my thoughts. 
>
> Obviously, the more uniform the better.  So one might turn the 
> question around and ask how much nonuniformity is too much.  And that 
> will depend largely on the timing demands of the study, some studies 
> have more stringent requirements than others. 
>
> Offhand, I would say that as long as each of your computer setups can 
> robustly deliver millisecond-quality times, you should be OK.  You 
> can and should test each one with the RefreshClockTest that you can 
> download from PST, see Chapter 3 of the original User's Guide, or 
> Chapter 4 of the revised version.  Bear in mind that RefreshClockTest 
> just tests whether the system can keep up with the onboard 
> millisecond clock, it does not test the accuracy of the clock per se, 
> for that you would need to compare times with an external time 
> standard.  In any case, you at least want all your machines to pass 
> RefreshClockTest. 
>
> Matching refresh rates again depends on your timing requirements.  To 
> take an example, If you have one display running at 60 Hz (refresh 
> period = 16.7 ms) and another at 75 Hz (refresh period = 13.3 ms), 
> and you ask for a Duration of 200 ms, then the one display will 
> actually give you either 183 or 200 ms, while the other screen will 
> give you either 199 ms or 213 ms.  You will have to decide whether 
> that is acceptable.  Note that the production release (EP2.0.10.242) 
> allows you to request a refresh rate 
> (http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3465 ).  No guarantee 
> that you will get what you ask, so still look at the value measured 
> by E-Prime & reported in the .edat file.  (And go with the value 
> measured by E-Prime, do not trust the refresh rate reported by Windows.) 
>
> I do not have any particular refresh rate to recommend, I do not run 
> studies myself (I am a Systems Designer who helps others do their 
> research), and I am embarrassed to say that I have never asked others 
> what refresh rates they use, I will have to ask around.  Offhand it 
> seems that faster is better as you get more exact times.  OTOH, I 
> often tend toward lowest common denominators for greater 
> compatibility, and for that reason might stick down at 60 Hz.  In 
> truth, rightly or wrongly, I think we mostly just take whatever 
> refresh rate we get and don't think about it. 
>
> You already plan to use the same size monitors at all sites, and I 
> presume use the same display resolution.  I trust you will also seat 
> subjects at the same distance so that visual stimuli subtend the same 
> visual angle for all subjects. 
>
> Note that none of this affects the accuracy of response times, 
> E-Prime has a very robust mechanism for gettting responses which is 
> independent of the mechansims for presenting stimuli. 
>
> Now after all that, here is the short answer (Michiel, would like to 
> chime in here?):  Chances are that whatever human behavior you 
> measure has more variance than your measurement system.  That's not 
> an excuse for getting sloppy when you can be exact, but maybe we need 
> not fret too much about this; others have done statistical 
> calculations to show that we can compensate for variance introduced 
> by our measuring system merely by running a few more subjects (sorry, 
> I don't have a citation handy). 
>
> So what do the rest of you think?  For that matter, what do others 
> actually do? 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
> At 11/15/2012 12:28 PM Thursday, MKT wrote: 
> >We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two 
> >sites (OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any 
> >additional noise in the data or run into problems. 
> > 
> >We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on 
> >Windows 7. Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about 
> >refresh rates? Is there a particular refresh rate you recommend? 
> > 
> >Thanks for your help! 
>
>

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Mon Nov 19 19:19:46 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:19:46 -0500
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qrDuRUechoAqfZ1rZxEVb4u8F1U3xsOZ83ZutaE=Qn80g@mail.g
 mail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.141946.0500.>

Eszter,

2) To hide the mouse cursor, use
     Mouse.ShowCursor False
in InLine code; to show the cursor again, use
     Mouse.ShowCursor True
.

See the MouseDevice.ShowCursor topic in the E-Basic Help.

-- David McFarlane


At 11/17/2012 12:59 PM Saturday, Eszter Kormann wrote:
>Dear Paul,
>
>please don't get tired of my stupid questions... I have two more.:)
>
>
>1)  I could not make this previous one work, so I decided to go into 
>your suggestion and ask how can I set up a slide that you have 
>already mentioned. I had this idea on my mind when I had started to 
>plan the experiment, but I thought that I will be challenging and 
>hard to make approximately 30 slides. But now I understood that the 
>analysis of the data will be a pain and even harder with this 
>design, so I would be grateful if you could explain how can I switch 
>to the latter solution.
>
>2) The second and most shamefully easy question would be in 
>connection with mouse hiding. I want the cursor to be hidden through 
>the part, when the program just shows the pictures. If it is there 
>the cursor can be distracting in a visual paradigm like this. 
>However, I really need the mouse to be shown when we ask for and 
>register mouse response (through the exposition of the grid 
>exercise). I found this in the help, but I'm a starter (it was a 
>week ago when I first saw the programme.. ), and I don't know how 
>could I make this work.
>
>
>'This example loops through the available mouse cursors.
>
>'EXAMPLE PART A
>
>Instructions.Text = "Press the spacebar to \n begin " &_
>
>"the mouse cursors demo..."
>
>'EXAMPLE PART B
>
>Display.Canvas.Clear
>
>Display.Canvas.Text 0, 0, "Display the available mouse cursors..."
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor True
>
>Dim i As Integer
>
>For i = 1 to 13
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor False
>
>Mouse.Cursor = i
>
>Mouse.SetCursorPos Display.XRes/2, 20
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor True
>
>Display.Canvas.Text 50, 25, "Current mouse " &_
>
>"cursor value = " & Mouse.Cursor
>
>Sleep 2000
>
>Next i
>
>Display.Canvas.Clear
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor False
>
>c.SetAttrib "Stimulus", "End of cursors demonstration "
>
>StimDisplay.Run
>
>'terminate the rest of the experiment
>
>StimDisplay.Duration = 0 'do not display the normal StimDisplay
>
>List1.Terminate 'do not cycle
>
>'Note: To run this example with E-BasicExample.es, copy the script in
>'EXAMPLE PART A above and paste it into the Setup InLine object. Next
>'copy the script in EXAMPLE PART B above and paste it into the Before
>'InLine object.
>
>
>Thanks a lot!!!!!!
>
>Eszter
>
>
>
>
>2012/11/16 Paul Groot <<mailto:pfc.groot at gmail.com>pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>Hi again Eszter,
>
>There are several way's to do this, but assuming your bitmap 
>pictures are drawn unstretched in the middle of the screen (and have 
>fixed dimensions), then you could try something like this (be 
>warned, this will be uggly):
>
>         Const N_x As Integer = 4 ' number of images hor.
>         Const N_y As Integer = 4 ' number of images vert.
>         Const size_x As Long = 1000 ' width of bitmap in pixels
>         Const size_y As Long = 776  ' height of bitmap in pixels
>         Dim offset_x As Long
>         Dim offset_y As Long
>         Dim index_x As Integer
>         Dim index_y As Integer
>         Dim delta_x As Long
>         Dim delta_y As Long
>         offset_x = (size_x - Display.XRes)/2
>         delta_x = size_x / N_x
>         index_x = (theMouseResponseData.CursorX-offset_x)/delta_x
>         offset_y = (size_y - Display.YRes) / 2
>         delta_y = size_y / N_y
>         index_y = (theMouseResponseData.CursorY-offset_y)/delta_y
>
>         Dim index As Integer
>         index = (index_y-1)*N_x+index_x
>         debug.print "I=" & index & "  (" & index_x & "," & index_y & ")"
>
>You could put this inside the if-then-endif part to get the subimage 
>indices of the selected images (ranging from 1 to 16; counting 
>row-by-row) The next thing to do would be a simple test if the 
>indices match the correct answer. Normally you would but the correct 
>answer as attributes in the trial list. However, because all 8 
>clicks are handled within a single trial, you would have to specify 
>the correct indices for all 8 clicks as 8 separate attributes (i.e. 
>'CorrectCLick.1', 'CorrectCLick.2' etc.).
>
>         Dim correct_index As Integer
>         correct_index = CInt(c.GetAttrib("CorrectClick." & CStr(iResponse)))
>         c.SetAttrib "ClickACC." & CStr(iResponse), IIf(index = 
> correct_index, 1, 0)
>
>I'm sure there are dozens of bugs in this code, but this is the 
>general idea if your stimulus is a single bitmap image. As said 
>before, this is not a very elegant piece of work. And there still 
>things going wrong here (for example: the black borders are also 
>treated as valid subimage area). A more elegant way would be to use 
>a hidden bitmap that has a color map that mappes the valid subimage 
>areas to a subimage number. Then a simple getpixel-call would return 
>the selected image. (Also works for non-rectangular areas.) Another 
>option would be to use a slide with 4x4 separate slide images. This 
>would also simplify the script because EStudio has a special HitTest 
>function that can be used to test which object was selected.
>
>
>Cheers
>Paul
>
>
>
>2012/11/15 Eszter Kormann <<mailto:ringril at gmail.com>ringril at gmail.com>
>
>Dear Paul,
>
>thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
>However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in 
>this case, because we only get the x and y coordinates for the 
>clicks whereas we need to compare this with the small pictures 
>coordinates on the screen.
>I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) 
>pinpoint the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) 
>picture within the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial 
>and 3) then we want the program to decide whether the click of the 
>responder was correct or not.
>We thought that we might use something like an if "mouse coordinate 
>is XY" < x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO.  Sorry for the form, but 
>unfortunately I still don't know this language.
>
>I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.
>
>Thanks a lot in advance!!!
>All the best,
>Eszter
>
>
>2012/11/13 Paul Groot <<mailto:pfc.groot at gmail.com>pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>Hi Eszter,
>
>You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have 
>to set the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click 
>the advanced button and edit max count). Then use the following 
>script after the stimulus object:
>
>Dim iResponse As Integer
>For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>     Set theMouseResponseData = 
> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX", 
> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY", 
> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT", 
> theMouseResponseData.RT
>     End If
>Next
>
>I also added the response time to the output because you might need 
>that too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached 
>script contains a working example.
>
>Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to 
>handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a 
>more  more compact edat-output file(because you don't have to 
>generate separate attribute names for sequential responses). Another 
>advantage is that you could implement more sophisticated 
>constructions, like highlighting the selected objects as soon as 
>they are selected or terminating after a specific object was 
>selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is slightly more 
>complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Cheers,
>Paul
>
>
>2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <<mailto:ringril at gmail.com>ringril at gmail.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>So, once again :)
>I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple 
>mouse response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists 
>of several pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People 
>are asked to click on those pictures within the grid which we had 
>already shown to them (8 clicks out of 16). How can I register all 
>of the 8 clicks's coordinates  with the modification of the script 
>linked below, which in fact works perfectly well for our experiment.
>
>
>
>
>If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>
>Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>Set theMouseResponseData = 
>CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>End If
>
>End If
>
>
>Thanks a lot,
>Eszter

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From filizg at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 19:46:03 2012
From: filizg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?filiz_g=F6zenman?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:46:03 -0800
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.114603.0800.>

Hello,

I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.

Thank you in advance,
Filiz

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 20:49:18 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:49:18 +0100
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
In-Reply-To: <CAEX6K+YgPgEdrs6VgExijjQY17AYkjvCj_fkKrjHbSep35tY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.214918.0100.>

Hi Filiz,

Just add another attribute to the trial list. You should have an attribute
that contains the filename of the stimulus image (i.e. "BmpFile") and
another for the correct answer (i.e. "CorrectAnswer"). Don't try to combine
this info into a single attribute value.

In some cases it might be useful to create a small inline script that
determines the correct answer at runtime and sets the CorrectAnswer
attribute on the fly. (By mapping the name of the bitmap to a specific key,
for example.) But only do this when you really have to...

Best
Paul


2012/11/19 filiz gözenman <filizg at gmail.com>

> Hello,
>
> I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
> correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
> time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
> so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
> correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
> list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
> numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
> just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
> ".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
> way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
> both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Filiz
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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From filizg at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 22:32:54 2012
From: filizg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?filiz_g=F6zenman?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:32:54 -0800
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-uMctT-J61sRA1zcZDGdd-j-XoRRNE=Ep6LvopOK77aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.143254.0800.>

Hi Paul,

The problem is my correct answer attribute is also has to be filename of
the stimulus. Correct answer changes every time according to the presented
stimulus, and stimuli are presented randomly from a list. So I had to set
the correct answer attribute as "image1.bmp'. I guess I need an inline
script to convert the responses from keyboard presses (i.e. pressing 1 on
keyboard means selecting image1, pressing 2 on keyboard means selecting
image2 & "image1.bmp"=image1) So that I can compare and calculate accuracy.
However I don't know how to write one.

Filiz


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Filiz,
>
> Just add another attribute to the trial list. You should have an attribute
> that contains the filename of the stimulus image (i.e. "BmpFile") and
> another for the correct answer (i.e. "CorrectAnswer"). Don't try to combine
> this info into a single attribute value.
>
> In some cases it might be useful to create a small inline script that
> determines the correct answer at runtime and sets the CorrectAnswer
> attribute on the fly. (By mapping the name of the bitmap to a specific key,
> for example.) But only do this when you really have to...
>
> Best
> Paul
>
>
> 2012/11/19 filiz gözenman <filizg at gmail.com>
>
>>  Hello,
>>
>> I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
>> correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
>> time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
>> so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
>> correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
>> list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
>> numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
>> just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
>> ".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
>> way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
>> both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.
>>
>> Thank you in advance,
>> Filiz
>>
>> --
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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 23:14:46 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:14:46 +0100
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
In-Reply-To: <CAEX6K+ZOGW2m9M8UZzFxKdHum1ES9b-Ub-dFYC7kVKAX-QUi2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.20.NOV.2012.001446.0100.>

Hi Filiz,

Eprime will randomise by-row, so having multiple attributes in separate
columns is not a problem at all. In other words: stimulus filename and
correct response will stay paired, even after shuffling the trials. This
mechanism is explained in the manuals and demonstrated in lots of examples
offered by PST. If you use nested lists you should put both attributes in
the same list to make sure they stay together. And once you have the
CorrectResponse values in a separate attribute, you can simple put a
reference to this attribute in the 'correct response' property of the input
mask (using the bracket syntax: [CorrectResponse]).

best,
paul

2012/11/19 filiz gözenman <filizg at gmail.com>

>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The problem is my correct answer attribute is also has to be filename of
> the stimulus. Correct answer changes every time according to the presented
> stimulus, and stimuli are presented randomly from a list. So I had to set
> the correct answer attribute as "image1.bmp'. I guess I need an inline
> script to convert the responses from keyboard presses (i.e. pressing 1 on
> keyboard means selecting image1, pressing 2 on keyboard means selecting
> image2 & "image1.bmp"=image1) So that I can compare and calculate accuracy.
> However I don't know how to write one.
>
> Filiz
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Filiz,
>>
>> Just add another attribute to the trial list. You should have an
>> attribute that contains the filename of the stimulus image (i.e. "BmpFile")
>> and another for the correct answer (i.e. "CorrectAnswer"). Don't try to
>> combine this info into a single attribute value.
>>
>> In some cases it might be useful to create a small inline script that
>> determines the correct answer at runtime and sets the CorrectAnswer
>> attribute on the fly. (By mapping the name of the bitmap to a specific key,
>> for example.) But only do this when you really have to...
>>
>> Best
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/19 filiz gözenman <filizg at gmail.com>
>>
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
>>> correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
>>> time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
>>> so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
>>> correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
>>> list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
>>> numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
>>> just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
>>> ".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
>>> way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
>>> both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance,
>>> Filiz
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 21:00:00 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:00:00 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
Message-ID: <WED.21.NOV.2012.130000.0800.>

I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii 
eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit 
right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now 
receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error 
message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to 
engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.

Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
if that's the cause.

Thank you!
Alison

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From pquain at une.edu.au  Wed Nov 21 21:05:27 2012
From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:05:27 +1100
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <ce320514-40be-48c4-aa76-be2e3cbb9f1c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.22.NOV.2012.080527.1100.>


64 bit OK, win 8 not:

http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=4026

At 08:00 AM 22/11/2012, you wrote:
>I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
>Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know 
>the 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 
>8, 64-bit) and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. 
>You can bypass the error message and it runs the first part of the 
>experiment, until it needs to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
>Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I 
>can fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 
>64-bit issue if that's the cause.
>
>Thank you!
>Alison
>
>--
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>Groups "E-Prime" group.
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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 19:09:19 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:09:19 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <ce320514-40be-48c4-aa76-be2e3cbb9f1c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <MON.26.NOV.2012.110919.0800.>

Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up? 
I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with 
XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program 
to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction 
effect?



On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley 
wrote:
>
> I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii 
> eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit 
> right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now 
> receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error 
> message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to 
> engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
> if that's the cause.
>
> Thank you!
> Alison
>
>

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From pquain at une.edu.au  Mon Nov 26 20:07:43 2012
From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 07:07:43 +1100
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <8de5584b-f974-4bcc-b7be-9f53b00bec79@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.NOV.2012.070743.1100.>


Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, 
the link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP 
drivers for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If 
no XP drivers, then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for 
an older one with XP?

At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up?
>I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility 
>mode with XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does 
>allow the program to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps 
>it's some interaction effect?
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller 
>Singley wrote:
>I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
>Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know 
>the 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 
>8, 64-bit) and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. 
>You can bypass the error message and it runs the first part of the 
>experiment, until it needs to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
>Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I 
>can fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 
>64-bit issue if that's the cause.
>
>Thank you!
>Alison
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 01:11:52 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:11:52 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <201211262007.qAQK7i3p023936@mail12.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <MON.26.NOV.2012.171152.0800.>

Got it, thanks

On Monday, November 26, 2012 12:07:52 PM UTC-8, Peter Quain wrote:
>
>  
> Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, the 
> link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP drivers 
> for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If no XP drivers, 
> then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for an older one with XP?
>
> At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up? 
> I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with 
> XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program 
> to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction 
> effect?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley 
> wrote:
>  I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii 
> eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit 
> right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now 
> receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error 
> message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to 
> engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
> if that's the cause.
>
> Thank you!
> Alison
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> .
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>  
>  
>
>

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From thesportdr at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 01:49:33 2012
From: thesportdr at gmail.com (Sean Mullen)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:49:33 -0600
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <201211262007.qAQK7i3p023936@mail12.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <MON.26.NOV.2012.194933.0600.>

So EP doesn't work on Win 7?


On Monday, November 26, 2012, Peter Quain wrote:

>
> Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, the
> link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP drivers
> for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If no XP drivers,
> then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for an older one with XP?
>
> At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up?
> I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with
> XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program
> to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction
> effect?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley
> wrote:
>  I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii
> eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit
> right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now
> receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error
> message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to
> engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue
> if that's the cause.
>
> Thank you!
> Alison
>
> --
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>
>

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From pquain at une.edu.au  Tue Nov 27 01:54:47 2012
From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:54:47 +1100
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <CAKXPzZTRA7o1B9nw2QhErx9du421bomjBG6Kwo9_0PK55QdSFA@mail.g
 mail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.NOV.2012.125447.1100.>


yes it is supposed to - I'm just stuck in xp world (if it ain't 
broke, don't fix it) and didn't think much when replying to Alison 
... more likely to find win7 drivers, probably

At 12:49 PM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>So EP doesn't work on Win 7?
>
>
>On Monday, November 26, 2012, Peter Quain wrote:
>
>Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, 
>the link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get 
>XP drivers for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. 
>If no XP drivers, then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop 
>for an older one with XP?
>
>At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>>Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up?
>>I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility 
>>mode with XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does 
>>allow the program to run, up until the Tobii is required. So 
>>perhaps it's some interaction effect?
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller 
>>Singley wrote:
>>I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
>>Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know 
>>the 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 
>>8, 64-bit) and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. 
>>You can bypass the error message and it runs the first part of the 
>>experiment, until it needs to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>>Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One 
>>I can fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 
>>64-bit issue if that's the cause.
>>Thank you!
>>Alison
>>
>>--
>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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>>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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>><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/h4U2hcjsMIcJ>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/h4U2hcjsMIcJ.
>>For more options, visit 
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>>
>>
>
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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 22:58:38 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:58:38 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <201211270154.qAR1sm4V014942@mail12.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.NOV.2012.145838.0800.>

Actually, in attempting to install EP 2.0.8 on a Windows 7 computer, it 
told me it's NOT compatible with Windows 7. HOWEVER it does seem to run.
If it gives you trouble, though, the compatibility mode is a neat trick: 
find the program settings from the Desktop or control panel (I forget 
exactly where I found it - Windows8 allows you to search for it) and go to 
the Compatibility tab.

On Monday, November 26, 2012 5:54:55 PM UTC-8, Peter Quain wrote:
>
>  
> yes it is supposed to - I'm just stuck in xp world (if it ain't broke, 
> don't fix it) and didn't think much when replying to Alison ... more likely 
> to find win7 drivers, probably
>
> At 12:49 PM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> So EP doesn't work on Win 7?
>
>
> On Monday, November 26, 2012, Peter Quain wrote:
>
> Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, the 
> link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP drivers 
> for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If no XP drivers, 
> then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for an older one with XP?
>
> At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up? 
> I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with 
> XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program 
> to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction 
> effect?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley 
> wrote: I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
> Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 
> 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) 
> and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the 
> error message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs 
> to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
> if that's the cause.
> Thank you! Alison
>
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>  
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From ronghua0618 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 29 07:59:23 2012
From: ronghua0618 at gmail.com (Rongh Zhou)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:59:23 +0800
Subject: the feedback problem
Message-ID: <THU.29.NOV.2012.155923.0800.>

Hi,
When I use E-prime to do my experiment, there comes a problem.

What  I want to do is to present a picture, participants have to response
on the picture. There response must be string as the answers including 2
numbers. After they type in, there should be a feedback. If the answer is
right, they do next question, if wrong, they have to learn a material.

As the participants have to type string to make response, I don't know how
to judge whether their answer is right or not. The list can not put 2
characteristics as answers. And also, how to do the feedback?

So if there's any good idea to cope with it ?

-- 
school of psychology, Northwest Normal University
Lanzhou, Gansu.

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From wobaidan at gmail.com  Fri Nov 30 18:42:13 2012
From: wobaidan at gmail.com (Dan Brenner)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 10:42:13 -0800
Subject: Check files exist
Message-ID: <FRI.30.NOV.2012.104213.0800.>

Is there a way to get E-Prime to check that all sound or image files in the 
item lists are present without running through the experiment to find out?

Thanks!
Dan Brenner
U. Arizona

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Fri Nov 30 20:26:29 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:26:29 -0500
Subject: Check files exist
In-Reply-To: <aba7c1ca-f5b0-468f-9bb3-d16fbbae634f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.NOV.2012.152629.0500.>

Dand,

Well, there is always the FileDirs() and FileExists() functions, 
which you can read about in the E-Basic Help, although that would 
take a bit of coding.  Then again, Experiment Advisor in the latest 
EP2 (2.0.10.242) contains a module for "Varying Filename not found" 
(http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=4982 ), but I don't 
know how well that works -- perhaps you could try that and report back.

Finally, the latest EP2 also includes a "test run" facility for 
speeding up the run (up to a factor of 4) and providing automatic 
keyboard responses, so with all that it might not be too burdensome 
to just do a test run and see whether you get any run-time 
problems.  Best to run all Lists in Sequential order for this, so you 
can follow the progress and see where it was in each List when it 
crashes.  Good luck.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/30/2012 01:42 PM Friday, Dan Brenner wrote:
>Is there a way to get E-Prime to check that all sound or image files 
>in the item lists are present without running through the experiment 
>to find out?
>
>Thanks!
>Dan Brenner
>U. Arizona

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From dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 13:47:05 2012
From: dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com (Diana Laura Rosa Leyra)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 09:47:05 -0400
Subject: Using a joystick as a response and defining correct response.
In-Reply-To: <AAC28C42-8F0D-4424-B104-BDEF8768192C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.1.NOV.2012.094705.0400.>

Thanks Pip. I'll try this!

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Pip <pipgriffiths86 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure that you can do this automatically, but if you code some
> inline to store the final x co ord of the cursor then you can look at this
> in the output file and use filters to determine whether the correct answer
> was given. You can also set up a screen that will respond if the answer was
> "correct" through using this method.
>
> Essentially you set a variable, get EPRime to write the x co ord to that
> variable and then get a conditional statement to read that file and
> feedback the necessary response to the participant
>
> Hope this helped
>
> Pip
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:00, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> We would like to use a joystick as a response device. Our task requires
> participants to judge whether the hand they see on the screen is a right or
> left hand. We'd like for them to respond with the joystick. Basically, I am
> trying to define a correct answer in terms of the position of the joystick
> at the time of response. Anyone have any ideas on how this would work and
> if it would work at all?
>
> I am working with EPrime 2.0 Professional and know that I have to use a
> bit of code, but am unsure as to where or how to use it.
>
> Thank you,
> Diana
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/1EHfBZClU6kJ.
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>
>
>
>  --
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>
>
>



-- 
-------------------------------
Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 17:24:06 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:24:06 -0700
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <5090365b.e696320a.6143.6abfSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.102406.0700.>

David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through the Help 
section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.

Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start as 
soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for 
> now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic 
> Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with 
> ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and 
> if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in 
> inline code. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
> /---- 
> Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> take any and all questions at 
> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
> strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> ), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> \---- 
>
>
> At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >basically I want it to go something like this: 
> > 
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this 
> >variable T1) 
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this 
> >variable T2) 
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time 
> >(will name variable T3) 
> > 
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1 
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1 
> > 
> > 
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >Hello all, 
> > 
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into 
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. 
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down 
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond 
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to 
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like 
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and 
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I 
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My 
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of 
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the 
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it. 
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit 
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably 
> >nowhere near where I need to be: 
> > 
> >Dim kbState As Integer 
> > 
> >Do 
> > 
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _ 
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
> > 
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then 
> >Clock.Read 
> > 
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then 
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime 
>
>

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From helminenterhi at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 19:01:01 2012
From: helminenterhi at gmail.com (terhi helminen)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 21:01:01 +0200
Subject: Using a joystick as a response and defining correct response.
In-Reply-To: <CADvFmW7wY4j_zoT9oh9LRu7k+J3_v4WH3czAXZZY38SG7+PJLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.210101.0200.>

Hi,

I have recently made a task where participant has to answer with joystick
(pulling it backward or forward).  The Inline code below helped me to make
an appropriate code, perhaps it helps you too...

(from
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/e-prime/joystick$20as$20response$20device/e-prime/ww6C02LZ8nY/qDT5rsZrerkJ
 )

----

Dim nInitY As Integer
Dim nCurrentY As Integer
Dim nDiff As Integer

nInitY = Joystick.CursorY

Do
   nCurrentY = Joystick.CursorY
   nDiff = nInitY - nCurrentY

Loop Until Abs(nDiff) > 50

Stimulus.RTTime = Clock.Read
Stimulus.RT = Stimulus.RTTime - Stimulus.OnsetTime

If nDiff > 0 Then
   Stimulus.RESP = "Up"
Else
   Stimulus.RESP = "Down"
End If
----
As I also wanted to give a feedback based on subjects answer, I used
contingent branching based on the response. (See the example in
http://www.pstnet.com/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=3 )

Hope this helps!
- Terhi


On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <
dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Pip. I'll try this!
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Pip <pipgriffiths86 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that you can do this automatically, but if you code some
>> inline to store the final x co ord of the cursor then you can look at this
>> in the output file and use filters to determine whether the correct answer
>> was given. You can also set up a screen that will respond if the answer was
>> "correct" through using this method.
>>
>> Essentially you set a variable, get EPRime to write the x co ord to that
>> variable and then get a conditional statement to read that file and
>> feedback the necessary response to the participant
>>
>> Hope this helped
>>
>> Pip
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:00, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> We would like to use a joystick as a response device. Our task requires
>> participants to judge whether the hand they see on the screen is a right or
>> left hand. We'd like for them to respond with the joystick. Basically, I am
>> trying to define a correct answer in terms of the position of the joystick
>> at the time of response. Anyone have any ideas on how this would work and
>> if it would work at all?
>>
>> I am working with EPrime 2.0 Professional and know that I have to use a
>> bit of code, but am unsure as to where or how to use it.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Diana
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/1EHfBZClU6kJ.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------
> Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
> dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
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>
>
>

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From dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 19:18:14 2012
From: dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com (Diana Laura Rosa Leyra)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:18:14 -0400
Subject: Using a joystick as a response and defining correct response.
In-Reply-To: <CALBveQtaJs7idqV74z8gm5rmr-+7KEJjkv5JcJ_nR++Tj4NK2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.151814.0400.>

Thank you! I will try this out. I have a similar code and am now trying to
define what would be a right  and a left response. We will see! Thanks!

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:01 PM, terhi helminen <helminenterhi at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have recently made a task where participant has to answer with joystick
> (pulling it backward or forward).  The Inline code below helped me to make
> an appropriate code, perhaps it helps you too...
>
> (from
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/e-prime/joystick$20as$20response$20device/e-prime/ww6C02LZ8nY/qDT5rsZrerkJ
>  )
>
> ----
>
> Dim nInitY As Integer
> Dim nCurrentY As Integer
> Dim nDiff As Integer
>
> nInitY = Joystick.CursorY
>
> Do
>    nCurrentY = Joystick.CursorY
>    nDiff = nInitY - nCurrentY
>
> Loop Until Abs(nDiff) > 50
>
> Stimulus.RTTime = Clock.Read
> Stimulus.RT = Stimulus.RTTime - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
> If nDiff > 0 Then
>    Stimulus.RESP = "Up"
> Else
>    Stimulus.RESP = "Down"
> End If
> ----
> As I also wanted to give a feedback based on subjects answer, I used
> contingent branching based on the response. (See the example in
> http://www.pstnet.com/support/samples.asp?Mode=View&SampleID=3 )
>
> Hope this helps!
> - Terhi
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <
> dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Pip. I'll try this!
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Pip <pipgriffiths86 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure that you can do this automatically, but if you code some
>>> inline to store the final x co ord of the cursor then you can look at this
>>> in the output file and use filters to determine whether the correct answer
>>> was given. You can also set up a screen that will respond if the answer was
>>> "correct" through using this method.
>>>
>>> Essentially you set a variable, get EPRime to write the x co ord to that
>>> variable and then get a conditional statement to read that file and
>>> feedback the necessary response to the participant
>>>
>>> Hope this helped
>>>
>>> Pip
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 31 Oct 2012, at 21:00, Diana Laura Rosa Leyra <dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> We would like to use a joystick as a response device. Our task requires
>>> participants to judge whether the hand they see on the screen is a right or
>>> left hand. We'd like for them to respond with the joystick. Basically, I am
>>> trying to define a correct answer in terms of the position of the joystick
>>> at the time of response. Anyone have any ideas on how this would work and
>>> if it would work at all?
>>>
>>> I am working with EPrime 2.0 Professional and know that I have to use a
>>> bit of code, but am unsure as to where or how to use it.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Diana
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/1EHfBZClU6kJ.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------------
>> Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
>> dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
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>
>
>



-- 
-------------------------------
Diana Laura Rosa-Leyra
dl.rosaleyra at gmail.com

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Fri Nov  2 20:56:53 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:56:53 -0400
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <3cd43d68-1797-4c8a-9a36-b0ee37b07701@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.2.NOV.2012.165653.0400.>

Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your 
stimulus, this will almost never be exact, and is in any case 
superfluous.  Suppose your text stimulus is named StimText.  Then 
StimText.OnsetTime already tells you the onset time of the stimulus, 
you should use that (see 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917 ).

If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you 
have StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText 
launch its own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be 
the appropriate RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)




At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
>the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.
>
>Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
>as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?
>
>On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for
>now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic
>Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with
>ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and
>if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in
>inline code.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >basically I want it to go something like this:
> >
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this
> >variable T1)
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this
> >variable T2)
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time
> >(will name variable T3)
> >
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with.
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it.
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably
> >nowhere near where I need to be:
> >
> >Dim kbState As Integer
> >
> >Do
> >
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then
> >
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> >Clock.Read
> >
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion on the web visit 
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Mon Nov  5 16:25:12 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:25:12 -0800
Subject: Feedback type
Message-ID: <MON.5.NOV.2012.082512.0800.>

Hi All

I am having a bit of problem with my program. I am creating an
experiment that has 4 blocks and 80 trials within the 4 blocks. Now,
after each trial I need there to be feedback of either positive 'well
done' or negative 'try harder'. I am going to create to different
experiments for each of the 2 feedback types (positive and negative)
and 4 versions of each type. The problem I keep encountering is that
when I add the feedback slide and run my experiment, all is well until
the feedback is given after each trial which reads 'no response'. I
have set the rresponse to either S for same or D for different
depending on where on screen the image is placed and yet i am not able
to program 1 type of feedback.

I want to know if there is a way for me to program 4 versions to state
'well done' even when the participants have answered a question wrong
whilst still gathering their real rresults and the same for the
neagtive feedback version.

Any help will be much appreciated.

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From sunkeyi at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  6 03:32:57 2012
From: sunkeyi at hotmail.com (Sun)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:32:57 -0800
Subject: drag an object
Message-ID: <MON.5.NOV.2012.193257.0800.>

Hello everyone

I am trying to design an experiment which allows people to move an
object from one bar to another (quite like the click and drag sample,
but bars are vertically located), I have 20 bars, so one can only move
one step at a time, any skipping would force the object return to its
target bar, I modified click and drag but so far the problem is that I
can only move the object to the first bar, the object cannot be moved
any more after any attempt to move to the second one (whether from the
1st bar or jump from the baseline). Does anyone know how to make them
only move one step at a time (force the object land on the target area
if people try to skip bars)?

Thanks

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From mspape at cognitology.eu  Tue Nov  6 11:18:40 2012
From: mspape at cognitology.eu (Michiel Sovijarvi-Spape)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:18:40 +0200
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <509433c0.e696320a.4c3f.231bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.131840.0200.>

Hi,
Just to add, that depends on whatever she means with "basic text" - I'd
agree with you that normally, you'd think this is a textdisplay, but what if
she meant "some text displayed using e-basic"? In other words, canvas,
right?
Generally, the point is that the vertical sync is messed up if you'd just
say
10 c.setattrib textonsettime, clock.read
20 write text to canvas
Because it can take long and short to write things actually to the screen
(also depending on how much you put there). Now, there's two tricks:
1) Display.waitforverticalblank makes sure you have the synchronisation
working (i.e. things aren't appearing halfway)
2) use a second canvas first to write everything to, then copy this canvas
to the active display. The first bit (writing stuff) takes much longer than
just copying the already made pictures.

Does that help? All in all, once upon a time, I loved doing everything in
canvas things, but nowadays (perhaps with less time on my hands), I have as
a rule of thumb: if it CAN be done without code, then do that instead; if it
CAN'T be done without LOTS OF code, there might be better software around
for the purposes. I think this is also a pretty good rule for those with
questions regarding dragging and dropping and whatnot. 
Best,

Michiel

-----Original Message-----
From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of David McFarlane
Sent: 02 November 2012 22:57
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com; e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: key press/release & RT

Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your stimulus, this
will almost never be exact, and is in any case superfluous.  Suppose your
text stimulus is named StimText.  Then StimText.OnsetTime already tells you
the onset time of the stimulus, you should use that (see
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917
).

If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you have
StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText launch its
own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be the appropriate
RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)




At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
>the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.
>
>Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
>as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?
>
>On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for
>now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic
>Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with
>ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and
>if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in
>inline code.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.
msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstne
t.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >basically I want it to go something like this:
> >
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this
> >variable T1)
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this
> >variable T2)
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time
> >(will name variable T3)
> >
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with.
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it.
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably
> >nowhere near where I need to be:
> >
> >Dim kbState As Integer
> >
> >Do
> >
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then
> >
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> >Clock.Read
> >
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion on the web visit 
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>https://groups.goog
le.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/
opt_out.
>
>

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From mspape at cognitology.eu  Tue Nov  6 10:52:19 2012
From: mspape at cognitology.eu (Michiel Sovijarvi-Spape)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 12:52:19 +0200
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <509433c0.e696320a.4c3f.231bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.125219.0200.>

-----Original Message-----
From: e-prime at googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime at googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of David McFarlane
Sent: 02 November 2012 22:57
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com; e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: key press/release & RT

Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your stimulus, this
will almost never be exact, and is in any case superfluous.  Suppose your
text stimulus is named StimText.  Then StimText.OnsetTime already tells you
the onset time of the stimulus, you should use that (see
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917
).

If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you have
StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText launch its
own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be the appropriate
RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)




At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
>the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted.
>
>Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
>as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my stimulus)?
>
>On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for
>now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic
>Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with
>ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and
>if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in
>inline code.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.
msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstne
t.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >basically I want it to go something like this:
> >
> >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this
> >variable T1)
> >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this
> >variable T2)
> >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time
> >(will name variable T3)
> >
> >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1
> >MT (movement time) = T3-T1
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into
> >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with.
> >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down
> >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond
> >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to
> >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like
> >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and
> >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I
> >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My
> >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of
> >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the
> >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it.
> >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit
> >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably
> >nowhere near where I need to be:
> >
> >Dim kbState As Integer
> >
> >Do
> >
> >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then
> >
> >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> >Clock.Read
> >
> >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>To view this discussion on the web visit 
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>https://groups.goog
le.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/
opt_out.
>
>

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Tue Nov  6 14:25:27 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 06:25:27 -0800
Subject: feedback
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.062527.0800.>

Hi All

I want to know how I can only measure one type of feedback e.g.
positive or negative for each question.
In 1 experiment I am only measuring positive feedback so correct
answers will receive various texts ranging from 'well done,' to 'that
is great'. If the participant gets an answer wrong no feedback is
given.
In exp.2 I am measuring negative feedback, so incorrect answers will
receive various texts from 'try harder' or ' that was ok'. If the
participant gets an answer right they receive no feedback.

Is there a way that this can be done??

I have tried everything and read all the manuals but it has been
unsuccessful.

Thank you.

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 18:05:22 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:05:22 -0800
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <040201cdbc10$864c2c10$92e48430$@cognitology.eu>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.100522.0800.>

Michiel, thanks for your input. I had not considered the time it would take 
to write things. I will look into this.

On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 6:19:03 AM UTC-5, Michiel Sovij?rvi-Spap? 
wrote:
>
> Hi, 
> Just to add, that depends on whatever she means with "basic text" - I'd 
> agree with you that normally, you'd think this is a textdisplay, but what 
> if 
> she meant "some text displayed using e-basic"? In other words, canvas, 
> right? 
> Generally, the point is that the vertical sync is messed up if you'd just 
> say 
> 10 c.setattrib textonsettime, clock.read 
> 20 write text to canvas 
> Because it can take long and short to write things actually to the screen 
> (also depending on how much you put there). Now, there's two tricks: 
> 1) Display.waitforverticalblank makes sure you have the synchronisation 
> working (i.e. things aren't appearing halfway) 
> 2) use a second canvas first to write everything to, then copy this canvas 
> to the active display. The first bit (writing stuff) takes much longer 
> than 
> just copying the already made pictures. 
>
> Does that help? All in all, once upon a time, I loved doing everything in 
> canvas things, but nowadays (perhaps with less time on my hands), I have 
> as 
> a rule of thumb: if it CAN be done without code, then do that instead; if 
> it 
> CAN'T be done without LOTS OF code, there might be better software around 
> for the purposes. I think this is also a pretty good rule for those with 
> questions regarding dragging and dropping and whatnot. 
> Best, 
>
> Michiel 
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:> [mailto:
> e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>] On Behalf 
> Of David McFarlane 
> Sent: 02 November 2012 22:57 
> To: e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>; e-p... at googlegroups.com<javascript:> 
> Subject: Re: key press/release & RT 
>
> Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your stimulus, 
> this 
> will almost never be exact, and is in any case superfluous.  Suppose your 
> text stimulus is named StimText.  Then StimText.OnsetTime already tells 
> you 
> the onset time of the stimulus, you should use that (see 
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917 
> ). 
>
> If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you have 
> StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText launch its 
> own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be the appropriate 
> RT for the release response relative to the onset of StimText. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
>
>
> At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
> >the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted. 
> > 
> >Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
> >as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my 
> stimulus)? 
> > 
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote: 
> >Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for 
> >now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic 
> >Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with 
> >ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and 
> >if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in 
> >inline code. 
> > 
> >----- 
> >David McFarlane 
> >E-Prime training 
> >online: 
> ><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>
> http://psychology. 
> msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> > 
> >Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
> >(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
> > 
> >/---- 
> >Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> >take any and all questions at 
> ><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>
> http://support.pstne 
> t.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
> >, and they 
> >strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> >much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> >it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> >(<
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683> 
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> > 
> >), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> >channel 
> >(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
> >) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> >though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> >the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> >\---- 
> > 
> > 
> >At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >basically I want it to go something like this: 
> > > 
> > >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this 
> > >variable T1) 
> > >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this 
> > >variable T2) 
> > >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time 
> > >(will name variable T3) 
> > > 
> > >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1 
> > >MT (movement time) = T3-T1 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >Hello all, 
> > > 
> > >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into 
> > >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. 
> > >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down 
> > >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond 
> > >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to 
> > >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like 
> > >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and 
> > >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I 
> > >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My 
> > >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of 
> > >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the 
> > >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it. 
> > >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit 
> > >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably 
> > >nowhere near where I need to be: 
> > > 
> > >Dim kbState As Integer 
> > > 
> > >Do 
> > > 
> > >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _ 
> > >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
> > > 
> > >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then 
> > >Clock.Read 
> > > 
> > >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then 
> > >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime 
> > 
> >-- 
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >Groups "E-Prime" group. 
> >To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com<javascript:>. 
>
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> >e-prime+u... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> >To view this discussion on the web visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>
> https://groups.goog 
> le.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ. 
> >For more options, visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> https://groups.google.com/groups/ 
> opt_out. 
> > 
> > 
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "E-Prime" group. 
> To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> e-prime+u... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
>
>
>

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 18:03:02 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:03:02 -0800
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <509433c0.e696320a.4c3f.231bSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.100302.0800.>

David, as always, thank you for your helpful suggestions. I will look more 
into this.

On Friday, November 2, 2012 4:57:38 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Please do not use Clock.Read to get the starting time of your 
> stimulus, this will almost never be exact, and is in any case 
> superfluous.  Suppose your text stimulus is named StimText.  Then 
> StimText.OnsetTime already tells you the onset time of the stimulus, 
> you should use that (see 
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917). 
>
> If you think further, you might not even need to do that.  If you 
> have StimText start after the key is pressed down, and have StimText 
> launch its own "release" input mask, then StimText.RT will already be 
> the appropriate RT for the release response relative to the onset of 
> StimText. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
>
>
> At 11/2/2012 01:24 PM Friday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> >David, thank you so much for your help. I was able to read through 
> >the Help section and get an idea of how to accomplish what I wanted. 
> > 
> >Would you happen to know how to use the Clock.Read function to start 
> >as soon as the stimulus is presented (I'm using basic text as my 
> stimulus)? 
> > 
> >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:19:40 PM UTC-4, McFarlane, David wrote: 
> >Don't know about specifics in this case, just a couple hints for 
> >now.  Take a look at the "{key} nomenclature" topic in the E-Basic 
> >Help facility for hints on how to get RTs using key releases with 
> >ordinary stimulus objects.  That might get you most of the way, and 
> >if needed you could supplement this with some simple computations in 
> >inline code. 
> > 
> >----- 
> >David McFarlane 
> >E-Prime training 
> >online: 
> ><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>
> http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> > 
> >Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
> >(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
> > 
> >/---- 
> >Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> >take any and all questions at 
> ><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>
> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
> >, and they 
> >strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> >much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> >it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> >(<
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> > 
> >), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> >channel 
> >(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
> >) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> >though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> >the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> >\---- 
> > 
> > 
> >At 10/30/2012 04:08 PM Tuesday, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >basically I want it to go something like this: 
> > > 
> > >at stimulus display, read the clock and get the time (will name this 
> > >variable T1) 
> > >after key release, read the clock and get that time (will name this 
> > >variable T2) 
> > >at key press (final response), read the clock and get that time 
> > >(will name variable T3) 
> > > 
> > >RT (reaction time) = T2-T1 
> > >MT (movement time) = T3-T1 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote: 
> > >Hello all, 
> > > 
> > >I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into 
> > >some issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. 
> > >For my experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down 
> > >two keys (u and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond 
> > >to it by releasing one of the two keys and making a movement to 
> > >another to respond ({TAB} or {END}). Additionally, I would also like 
> > >to record movement time (time from release of key to response) and 
> > >reaction time (time of release of one of the initial keys). So far I 
> > >have already gone in and allowed both Key Presses and Releases. My 
> > >issue is actually how to get the program to recognize the release of 
> > >the key and start recording the time, so I decided to use the 
> > >Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement it. 
> > >Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit 
> > >of the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably 
> > >nowhere near where I need to be: 
> > > 
> > >Dim kbState As Integer 
> > > 
> > >Do 
> > > 
> > >If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _ 
> > >Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
> > > 
> > >If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then 
> > >Clock.Read 
> > > 
> > >ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then 
> > >Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime 
> > 
> >-- 
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> >Groups "E-Prime" group. 
> >To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com<javascript:>. 
>
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> >e-prime+u... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> >To view this discussion on the web visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/qqFBuuTyZowJ. 
> >For more options, visit 
> ><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
> > 
> > 
>
>

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 21:07:29 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:07:29 +0100
Subject: feedback
In-Reply-To: <3957b351-f7f1-4a77-b968-efc94cc8e204@h16g2000vby.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.220729.0100.>

hi,

you would probably like to do this using a slide object containing the
required states (tabs). Then, use a small piece of inline script just
before the slide to set the ActiveState property of the slide to make sure
the correct state is presented. An empty state can be used if no feedback
is required. (Possibly setting the slide duration to a smaller value in
this case)

cheers
paul



2012/11/6 pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk <pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk>

> Hi All
>
> I want to know how I can only measure one type of feedback e.g.
> positive or negative for each question.
> In 1 experiment I am only measuring positive feedback so correct
> answers will receive various texts ranging from 'well done,' to 'that
> is great'. If the participant gets an answer wrong no feedback is
> given.
> In exp.2 I am measuring negative feedback, so incorrect answers will
> receive various texts from 'try harder' or ' that was ok'. If the
> participant gets an answer right they receive no feedback.
>
> Is there a way that this can be done??
>
> I have tried everything and read all the manuals but it has been
> unsuccessful.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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From xmurio at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 21:46:16 2012
From: xmurio at gmail.com (junjunz)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 13:46:16 -0800
Subject: localization with the mouse
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.134616.0800.>

Hi all,

     I'm trying to move a circle (as a cursor) vertically on the screen 
with the mouse. That is, move the circle up and down only. This is the code 
I used for this:

Dim cnvs As Canvas
Set cnvs = Display.Canvas

cnvs.Clear
cnvs.PenWidth = 5

Mouse.SetCursorPos Display.XRes/2, Display.YRes/2
cnvs.Circle Display.XRes/2, Display.YRes/2, 7

Do While (Mouse.Buttons <> ebMouseButton1)

Display.WaitForVerticalBlank
cnvs.Clear
cnvs.Circle Display.XRes/2, Mouse.CursorY, 7
sleep 20
Loop

The code works. However, when the circle is moved to the upper part of the 
screen (close to the edge of the screen), the circle starts to flash. If 
'sleep 20' is erased, the circle would be invisible when moved close to the 
upper edge of the screen. But it is totally normal if the circle is moved 
to the lower part of the screen. I'm wondering why it happens? Is there a 
better way to control the circle vertically with the mouse? Thanks so much!

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 01:56:43 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 17:56:43 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.175643.0800.>

I just want to make sure that I understand how the cumulative timing works. 
For example, say you had a trial procedure with several slides but that 
began with an inline that was causing onset delays (for the first slide).  
Then you could set the timing of that first slide to cumulative and the 
delay will be  absorbed by that slides total duration time setting.  
Meanwhile, the rest of the slides in the procedure can be left on the event 
timing setting, since they have no onset delays.  So, as long as the first 
slide is, for example, just a blank pause or something, then cumulative 
timing would work well because the total blank screen time would remain the 
same at the beginning of the procedure.  Do I have this right?

thank you for any assistance/reassurance!

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From sunkeyi at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  7 02:40:36 2012
From: sunkeyi at hotmail.com (Sun)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:40:36 -0800
Subject: drag an object
In-Reply-To: <0296bb20-27aa-456d-848c-5a954d61c980@r8g2000pbs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.184036.0800.>

I think I just find out what the problem is, when I move the object into 
these boxes,  the boxes are transparent, but in fact they are opaque even 
it says 'transparent' in properties, does anyone know why?
 
Thanks
? 2012?11?6????UTC+13??4?32?59??Sun???

> Hello everyone 
>
> I am trying to design an experiment which allows people to move an 
> object from one bar to another (quite like the click and drag sample, 
> but bars are vertically located), I have 20 bars, so one can only move 
> one step at a time, any skipping would force the object return to its 
> target bar, I modified click and drag but so far the problem is that I 
> can only move the object to the first bar, the object cannot be moved 
> any more after any attempt to move to the second one (whether from the 
> 1st bar or jump from the baseline). Does anyone know how to make them 
> only move one step at a time (force the object land on the target area 
> if people try to skip bars)? 
>
> Thanks 
>

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From sunkeyi at hotmail.com  Wed Nov  7 02:58:56 2012
From: sunkeyi at hotmail.com (Sun)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 18:58:56 -0800
Subject: drag an object
In-Reply-To: <ec68ca52-a077-4a5b-a669-2c6a221c0ded@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.6.NOV.2012.185856.0800.>

Just release how stupid the question is :p

On Nov 7, 3:40?pm, Sun <sunk... at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think I just find out what the problem is, when I move the object into
> these boxes, ?the boxes are transparent, but in fact they are opaque even
> it says 'transparent' in properties, does anyone know why?
>
> Thanks
> >
>
>
> > Hello everyone
>
> > I am trying to design an experiment which allows people to move an
> > object from one bar to another (quite like the click and drag sample,
> > but bars are vertically located), I have 20 bars, so one can only move
> > one step at a time, any skipping would force the object return to its
> > target bar, I modified click and drag but so far the problem is that I
> > can only move the object to the first bar, the object cannot be moved
> > any more after any attempt to move to the second one (whether from the
> > 1st bar or jump from the baseline). Does anyone know how to make them
> > only move one step at a time (force the object land on the target area
> > if people try to skip bars)?
>
> > Thanks- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Wed Nov  7 17:07:52 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 12:07:52 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <4a48f159-5ca4-4a5d-ba5d-602785212b20@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.120752.0500.>

First & foremost, you can figure this out by doing some test for 
yourself (and you should never believe what anyone tells you 
anyway).  Just run your exercise and inspect all the time audit 
measures (see 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/39e899d3457d4917 
) from your various stimulus objects.

Of course, you still want some theoretical understanding.  For that, 
start with Chapter 3 of the original E-Prime User's Guide (or try 
Chapter 4 of the revised edition).  Then look at the 
GetNextTargetOnsetTime and SetNextTargetOnsetTime topics in the 
E-Basic Help facility.  From that, let's infer that E-Basic holds a 
hidden NextTargetOnsetTime variable.  And note that Timing Mode 
merely determines the baseline for setting NextTargetOnseTime from 
the stimulus Duration -- i.e., Event uses OnsetTime for the baseline, 
whereas Cumulative uses NextTargetOnsetTime (or TargetOnsetTime, 
depending on how you want to think of this).  From there, it is just 
simple arithmetic.

So suppose you have an InLine, followed by Slide1 (set to Cumulative 
timing mode), followed by Slide2.  And suppose that Slide1 one does 
*not* get terminated by some event (e.g., response or sound End 
Action).  In that special case, the following holds:

When Slide1 starts execution,
     Slide1.TargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime
     NextTargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime + Slide1.Duration

Then when Slide2 starts execution,
     Slide2.TargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime
     ...

So from that you can see that, yes, what you surmised was 
correct.  By contrast, using Event timing mode, the following would hold:

When Slide1 starts execution,
     Slide1.TargetOnsetTime = NextTargetOnsetTime
     ...
     NextTargetOnsetTime = Slide1.OnsetTime + Slide1.Duration

And you can take it from there.

BTW, why not just use Cumulative timing mode for all your stimulus 
objects in the Procedure?  In most cases, that would seem more natural.

And again, test all this for yourself, never take anyone's word for 
anything, not even mine.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/6/2012 08:56 PM Tuesday, FrankBank wrote:
>I just want to make sure that I understand how the cumulative timing 
>works. For example, say you had a trial procedure with several 
>slides but that began with an inline that was causing onset delays 
>(for the first slide).  Then you could set the timing of that first 
>slide to cumulative and the delay will be  absorbed by that slides 
>total duration time setting.  Meanwhile, the rest of the slides in 
>the procedure can be left on the event timing setting, since they 
>have no onset delays.  So, as long as the first slide is, for 
>example, just a blank pause or something, then cumulative timing 
>would work well because the total blank screen time would remain the 
>same at the beginning of the procedure.  Do I have this right?
>
>thank you for any assistance/reassurance!

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From leigh.sepeta at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 22:08:53 2012
From: leigh.sepeta at gmail.com (leigh)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:08:53 -0800
Subject: Bitmap trouble with E-Prime
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.140853.0800.>

I know that the images have to be in bitmap format for E-Prime, but my 
images are currently in tiff format and when I convert my tiff images to 
bmp on my mac, E-Prime will not recognize the bmp files. Do you know how to 
fix this? I can convert the tiff to bmp images on a PC and it works, BUT on 
a PC a black border is added to the images when switching from a tiff to 
bmp that I do not want (it is a memory paradigm so the black border can't 
be there bc it is NOT there in the recognition trial), so I would much 
prefer using the Mac created bmp files.

Thank you for any help that you can provide!
Leigh

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Wed Nov  7 22:22:16 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (Gulshan Tahir)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:22:16 +0000
Subject: feedback
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-vziz9A1bjPRpx2hz2agSPA_k5fguJGCE4yaOnQrUq+Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.222216.0000.>


Hi Paul

I am a novice so am not aware of how to inline script and my supervisor has stated that she does not know either. Is there a way to do this using the feebackdisplay already in e-prime or would that be harder to do?
Thank you

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:07:29 +0100
Subject: Re: feedback
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com

hi,

you would probably like to do this using a slide object containing the required states (tabs). Then, use a small piece of inline script just before the slide to set the ActiveState property of the slide to make sure the correct state is presented. An empty state can be used if no feedback is required. (Possibly setting the slide duration to a smaller value in this case)


cheers
paul



2012/11/6 pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk <pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk>

Hi All



I want to know how I can only measure one type of feedback e.g.

positive or negative for each question.

In 1 experiment I am only measuring positive feedback so correct

answers will receive various texts ranging from 'well done,' to 'that

is great'. If the participant gets an answer wrong no feedback is

given.

In exp.2 I am measuring negative feedback, so incorrect answers will

receive various texts from 'try harder' or ' that was ok'. If the

participant gets an answer right they receive no feedback.



Is there a way that this can be done??



I have tried everything and read all the manuals but it has been

unsuccessful.



Thank you.



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From tchung215 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 04:30:53 2012
From: tchung215 at gmail.com (Taewon Chung)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 20:30:53 -0800
Subject: Setting triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset
Message-ID: <WED.7.NOV.2012.203053.0800.>

Hi,

I'm running an ERP experiment using e-prime and brainvision amp

I would like to set triggers for a sound stimulus (four-syllable words) at 
a certain duration after stimulus onset (i.e. trigger after every 500 ms 
post stimulus onset). of course, the actual presentation time of the 
stimulus is longer than 500 ms.

Is there any script or in-line for such things? Is there any way to set 
triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset?

Also, is there a way to have triggers appear at specific time points by 
typing in certain duration for ech stimulus in the "attribute"?

Thanks :)

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From susangc7 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 15:58:57 2012
From: susangc7 at gmail.com (Susan Campbell)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <74e7a24a-0647-4be9-ae8f-86b08d0ebe44@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.075857.0800.>

Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end? 

(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a simple 
fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)

HTH,
Susan

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, pure-... at hotmail.co.uk 
wrote:
>
> Hi All 
>
> I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However 
> when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative 
> responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no 
> response as blank and had managed to do only the negative. 
> My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating 
> encountered: end of line 
> Expecting: End if. 
>
> My script: 
>
> Dim CorrectAnswer as String 
> Dim IncorrectAnswer as String 
> Dim NoResponse as string 
>
> If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
>     CorrectAnswer= "Correct" 
>
> Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
>         InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp" 
>
> Else 
>     NoResponse= "Blank.bmp" 
>         End if 
>
>
> I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there 
> seems to not be working at all now. 
>
> Thank you 
>

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Thu Nov  8 15:53:16 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:53:16 -0800
Subject: Feedback and inline script
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.075316.0800.>

Hi All

I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
encountered: end of line
Expecting: End if.

My script:

Dim CorrectAnswer as String
Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
Dim NoResponse as string

If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
    CorrectAnswer= "Correct"

Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
	InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"

Else
    NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
	End if


I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
seems to not be working at all now.

Thank you

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Thu Nov  8 16:09:07 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (Gulshan Tahir)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:09:07 +0000
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <af26dc70-454f-4637-bcbf-f65be0189820@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.160907.0000.>


Hi Susan
 
Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3 response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and negative response show up as blank?
 
Thank you
 



Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
From: susangc7 at gmail.com
To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script

Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end? 

(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)

HTH,
Susan

On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Hi All 

I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However 
when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative 
responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no 
response as blank and had managed to do only the negative. 
My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating 
encountered: end of line 
Expecting: End if. 

My script: 

Dim CorrectAnswer as String 
Dim IncorrectAnswer as String 
Dim NoResponse as string 

If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
    CorrectAnswer= "Correct" 

Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then 
        InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp" 

Else 
    NoResponse= "Blank.bmp" 
        End if 


I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there 
seems to not be working at all now. 

Thank you 

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 16:32:32 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <SNT142-W60A3A0236C4E82E5EC50E2F8690@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.113232.0500.>

Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a 
profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt 
augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...

The line

         If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then

compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will 
always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do.  Then your 
Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly 
not what you meant.

So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else 
clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp".  I don't quite see how 
that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens 
due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If, 
Else If, Else is deeply flawed.

If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and 
literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take 
any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.

-- David McFarlane


At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
>Hi Susan
>
>Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have 
>another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3 
>response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way 
>that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and 
>negative response show up as blank?
>
>Thank you
>
>
>----------
>Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
>From: susangc7 at gmail.com
>To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
>
>Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
>
>(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a 
>simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
>
>HTH,
>Susan
>
>On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, 
>pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>Hi All
>
>I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
>when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
>responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
>response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
>My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
>encountered: end of line
>Expecting: End if.
>
>My script:
>
>Dim CorrectAnswer as String
>Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
>Dim NoResponse as string
>
>If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
>     CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
>
>Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
>         InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
>
>Else
>     NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
>         End if
>
>
>I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
>seems to not be working at all now.
>
>Thank you

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From pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk  Thu Nov  8 16:45:05 2012
From: pure-n-true at hotmail.co.uk (Gulshan Tahir)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:45:05 +0000
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <509bdeb6.af21320a.28f3.64f5SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.164505.0000.>


Dear David
 
I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent many weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
 
I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each feedback type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only need the correct answers to appear in the positive group and the incorrect and no response to be blank. The feedback icon within the E-prime 2.0 was used as my supervisor strongly suggested I use it but when I did use the feedback icon on its own without any inline scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different) were incorrect and all blank or no responses were correct. 
 
Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script with the feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a different method.
 
Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
 
Thank you.
 
 

> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> 
> Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a 
> profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt 
> augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> 
> The line
> 
> If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> 
> compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will 
> always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your 
> Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly 
> not what you meant.
> 
> So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else 
> clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how 
> that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens 
> due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If, 
> Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> 
> If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and 
> literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take 
> any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.
> 
> -- David McFarlane
> 
> 
> At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> >Hi Susan
> >
> >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have 
> >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3 
> >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way 
> >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and 
> >negative response show up as blank?
> >
> >Thank you
> >
> >
> >----------
> >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> >
> >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> >
> >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a 
> >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> >
> >HTH,
> >Susan
> >
> >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5, 
> >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> >Hi All
> >
> >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> >encountered: end of line
> >Expecting: End if.
> >
> >My script:
> >
> >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> >Dim NoResponse as string
> >
> >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> >
> >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> >
> >Else
> > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > End if
> >
> >
> >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> >seems to not be working at all now.
> >
> >Thank you
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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> 
> 
 		 	   		  

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 16:51:51 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:51:51 -0500
Subject: Setting triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset
In-Reply-To: <78341abd-d7b6-48a3-9fca-c8e56009c26a@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.115151.0500.>

A couple thoughts to move you forward:

1) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object to 500, then follow 
that by any other object (e.g., Wait) with a Duration of 
(sound_stimulus_duration - 500).  Remember, if you set Stop After of 
the sound stimulus object to No then the sound will continue to play 
even after the end of the sound object.

2) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object as normal, and set 
its PreRelease to (Duration - 500) (you will have to do that manually 
because you cannot enter calculations there, otherwise do 
calculations in InLine and use an attrbute reference for 
PreRelease).  Set Stop After as appropriate.  I prefer this approach 
myself as it makes the time managment cleaner, but this scares people 
who do not understand PreRelease.

Also look at the threads at 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd 
and 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ef0e5a8d8b87aa0c 
for some somewhat related topics.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/7/2012 11:30 PM Wednesday, Taewon Chung wrote:
>I'm running an ERP experiment using e-prime and brainvision amp
>
>I would like to set triggers for a sound stimulus (four-syllable 
>words) at a certain duration after stimulus onset (i.e. trigger 
>after every 500 ms post stimulus onset). of course, the actual 
>presentation time of the stimulus is longer than 500 ms.
>
>Is there any script or in-line for such things? Is there any way to 
>set triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset?
>
>Also, is there a way to have triggers appear at specific time points 
>by typing in certain duration for ech stimulus in the "attribute"?
>
>Thanks :)

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 17:02:50 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 12:02:50 -0500
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <SNT142-W37E3F84458F4F52EE5FA91F8690@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.120250.0500.>

In cases like this, I offer only generic advice.  As you have already 
found, the manuals that come with E-Prime are essential and make good 
starting tutorials, but are entirely inadequate for anything 
further.  If you and your supervisor are both novices to computer 
programming in general, then you would do best by taking the time out 
to first do any course in Introduction to Computer Programming just 
to get the underlying concepts, then come back to E-Prime.  If either 
of your are already familiar with computer programming in general but 
just not E-Prime in particular, then the best advice I can give is a 
shameless plug for my online E-Prime course, see link below.  You 
might also look at the essays at 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/5425e03968cab428 
and 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/b0ce54870b723fc3 .

Best,
-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/8/2012 11:45 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
>Dear David
>
>I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent 
>many weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
>
>I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each 
>feedback type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only 
>need the correct answers to appear in the positive group and the 
>incorrect and no response to be blank. The feedback icon within the 
>E-prime 2.0 was used as my supervisor strongly suggested I use it 
>but when I did use the feedback icon on its own without any inline 
>scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different) were incorrect and all 
>blank or no responses were correct.
>
>Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script 
>with the feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a 
>different method.
>
>Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> >
> > Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a
> > profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt
> > augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> >
> > The line
> >
> > If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> >
> > compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will
> > always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your
> > Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly
> > not what you meant.
> >
> > So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else
> > clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how
> > that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens
> > due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If,
> > Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> >
> > If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and
> > literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take
> > any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.
> >
> > -- David McFarlane
> >
> >
> > At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> > >Hi Susan
> > >
> > >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have
> > >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3
> > >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way
> > >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and
> > >negative response show up as blank?
> > >
> > >Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> > >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> > >
> > >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> > >
> > >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a
> > >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> > >
> > >HTH,
> > >Susan
> > >
> > >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5,
> > >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > >Hi All
> > >
> > >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> > >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> > >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> > >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> > >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> > >encountered: end of line
> > >Expecting: End if.
> > >
> > >My script:
> > >
> > >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim NoResponse as string
> > >
> > >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> > >
> > >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> > >
> > >Else
> > > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > > End if
> > >
> > >
> > >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> > >seems to not be working at all now.
> > >
> > >Thank you

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 17:05:46 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 12:05:46 -0500
Subject: Setting triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset
In-Reply-To: <509be331.ce97320a.3594.680dSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.120546.0500.>

Oh, another thread that may shed further 
light: 
http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/9d51831937c69e19 .

-- David McFarlane


At 11/8/2012 11:51 AM Thursday, David McFarlane wrote:
>A couple thoughts to move you forward:
>
>1) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object to 500, then 
>follow that by any other object (e.g., Wait) with a Duration of 
>(sound_stimulus_duration - 500).  Remember, if you set Stop After of 
>the sound stimulus object to No then the sound will continue to play 
>even after the end of the sound object.
>
>2) Set the Duration of your sound stimulus object as normal, and set 
>its PreRelease to (Duration - 500) (you will have to do that 
>manually because you cannot enter calculations there, otherwise do 
>calculations in InLine and use an attrbute reference for 
>PreRelease).  Set Stop After as appropriate.  I prefer this approach 
>myself as it makes the time managment cleaner, but this scares 
>people who do not understand PreRelease.
>
>Also look at the threads at 
>http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/cfc3d0307d5c7fbd 
>and 
>http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/browse_thread/thread/ef0e5a8d8b87aa0c 
>for some somewhat related topics.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training 
>online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
>take any and all questions at 
>http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
>PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
>(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their 
>YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter 
>feed yet, though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, 
>please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the 
>sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 11/7/2012 11:30 PM Wednesday, Taewon Chung wrote:
>>I'm running an ERP experiment using e-prime and brainvision amp
>>
>>I would like to set triggers for a sound stimulus (four-syllable 
>>words) at a certain duration after stimulus onset (i.e. trigger 
>>after every 500 ms post stimulus onset). of course, the actual 
>>presentation time of the stimulus is longer than 500 ms.
>>
>>Is there any script or in-line for such things? Is there any way to 
>>set triggers at specific time points after stimulus onset?
>>
>>Also, is there a way to have triggers appear at specific time 
>>points by typing in certain duration for ech stimulus in the "attribute"?
>>
>>Thanks :)
>
>--
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>

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov  8 18:59:15 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 13:59:15 -0500
Subject: Bitmap trouble with E-Prime
In-Reply-To: <09cebdfe-6729-4911-bd27-a6d26d321b09@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.135915.0500.>

Leigh,

Ah, good old Mac to PC conversion problems...

Well, actually, PST lifted the .bmp restriction with E-Prime 2, so if 
you have that version then according to 
http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=360 you may now use 
*.bmp, *.jpg, *.jpeg, *gif, *.png, *.tif, *.tiff, *.emf, and 
*.wmf.  So give that a try.

If you are stuck with EP1, then I would try copying the .tiff files 
to the PC and doing the .bmp conversion using PC software.  Since you 
obviously already have the PC (else you could not run E-Prime), this 
should pose no burden.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours.  3) In addition, 
PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/7/2012 05:08 PM Wednesday, leigh wrote:
>I know that the images have to be in bitmap format for E-Prime, but 
>my images are currently in tiff format and when I convert my tiff 
>images to bmp on my mac, E-Prime will not recognize the bmp files. 
>Do you know how to fix this? I can convert the tiff to bmp images on 
>a PC and it works, BUT on a PC a black border is added to the images 
>when switching from a tiff to bmp that I do not want (it is a memory 
>paradigm so the black border can't be there bc it is NOT there in 
>the recognition trial), so I would much prefer using the Mac created bmp files.
>
>Thank you for any help that you can provide!
>Leigh

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From alphonse.stickle at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 21:36:24 2012
From: alphonse.stickle at gmail.com (Alphonse Stickle)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 08:36:24 +1100
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <SNT142-W37E3F84458F4F52EE5FA91F8690@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.083624.1100.>


Google can be your friend ... much pages telling of components of VBA 
code, such as conditionals, to achieve syntax allowable. One offering:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/752y8abs%28v=vs.80%29.aspx

At 03:45 AM 9/11/2012, you wrote:
>Dear David
>
>I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent 
>many weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
>
>I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each 
>feedback type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only 
>need the correct answers to appear in the positive group and the 
>incorrect and no response to be blank. The feedback icon within the 
>E-prime 2.0 was used as my supervisor strongly suggested I use it 
>but when I did use the feedback icon on its own without any inline 
>scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different) were incorrect and all 
>blank or no responses were correct.
>
>Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script 
>with the feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a 
>different method.
>
>Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
>
>Thank you.
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> >
> > Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a
> > profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt
> > augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> >
> > The line
> >
> > If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> >
> > compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will
> > always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your
> > Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly
> > not what you meant.
> >
> > So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else
> > clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how
> > that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens
> > due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If,
> > Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> >
> > If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and
> > literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take
> > any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding further.
> >
> > -- David McFarlane
> >
> >
> > At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> > >Hi Susan
> > >
> > >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have
> > >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3
> > >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way
> > >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and
> > >negative response show up as blank?
> > >
> > >Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> > >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> > >
> > >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> > >
> > >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a
> > >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> > >
> > >HTH,
> > >Susan
> > >
> > >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5,
> > >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > >Hi All
> > >
> > >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> > >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> > >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> > >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> > >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> > >encountered: end of line
> > >Expecting: End if.
> > >
> > >My script:
> > >
> > >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim NoResponse as string
> > >
> > >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> > >
> > >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> > >
> > >Else
> > > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > > End if
> > >
> > >
> > >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> > >seems to not be working at all now.
> > >
> > >Thank you
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the 
> Google Groups "E-Prime" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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From meltemballan at gmail.com  Thu Nov  8 21:42:10 2012
From: meltemballan at gmail.com (Meltem BALLAN)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 16:42:10 -0500
Subject: Feedback and inline script
In-Reply-To: <509c25df.c9db440a.3d13.ffff99f6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <THU.8.NOV.2012.164210.0500.>

I agree w/ Alphonse. You might also want to look closer to the E-Prime
Sample tasks. If I recall correctly there is a task with feedback and it
runs exactly like what you described below.
M.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Alphonse Stickle <alphonse.stickle at gmail.com
> wrote:

>
> Google can be your friend ... much pages telling of components of VBA
> code, such as conditionals, to achieve syntax allowable. One offering:
>
>  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/752y8abs%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
>
>  <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/752y8abs(v=vs.80).aspx>At 03:45
> AM 9/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Dear David
>
> I am a novice at this software and so is my supervisor. I have spent many
> weeks reading the manuals but still no help. Maybe you could enlighten me?
>
> I am planning on testing 2 groups and need 2 experiments for each feedback
> type (positive and negative) with various versions. I only need the correct
> answers to appear in the positive group and the incorrect and no response
> to be blank. The feedback icon within the E-prime 2.0 was used as my
> supervisor strongly suggested I use it but when I did use the feedback icon
> on its own without any inline scripting all keypresses (sd= same/different)
> were incorrect and all blank or no responses were correct.
>
> Now, I am not sure if I should pursue the route of inline script with the
> feedback icon or if I should just start over and use a different method.
>
> Any helpful comments would be much appreciated at this very moment in time.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 11:32:32 -0500
> > To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu
> > Subject: RE: Feedback and inline script
> >
> > Um, fearing to tread here because the offered code sample exhibits a
> > profound lack of understanding of computer programming which no doubt
> > augurs much further trouble to come, but here goes...
> >
> > The line
> >
> > If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> >
> > compares the string "TrialStimulus" to the string "sd" and that will
> > always be false, and certainly not what you meant to do. Then your
> > Else If clause performs exactly the same comparison, again certainly
> > not what you meant.
> >
> > So the code that you posted should always fall through to the Else
> > clause, which sets NoResponse to "Blank.bmp". I don't quite see how
> > that results in the behavior you describe, but perhaps that happens
> > due to other code that you did not post, and in any case your If,
> > Else If, Else is deeply flawed.
> >
> > If you do not yet understand the distinctions between variables and
> > literals, and how to use conditionals, then I urge you to first take
> > any Introduction to Computer Programming course before proceeding
> further.
> >
> > -- David McFarlane
> >
> >
> > At 11/8/2012 11:09 AM Thursday, Gulshan Tahir wrote:
> > >Hi Susan
> > >
> > >Thank you I have tried that and now it works, wierd. But now I have
> > >another problem. All I receive are positive feedback for all 3
> > >response types (positive, negative and no response). Is there a way
> > >that I can maybe code it a little different so that no response and
> > >negative response show up as blank?
> > >
> > >Thank you
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 07:58:57 -0800
> > >From: susangc7 at gmail.com
> > >To: e-prime at googlegroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: Feedback and inline script
> > >
> > >Not to be a wise-ass, but did you try adding another End If at the end?
> > >
> > >(I don't know that your code does what you want it to, but this is a
> > >simple fix so you can keep troubleshooting.)
> > >
> > >HTH,
> > >Susan
> > >
> > >On Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:53:18 AM UTC-5,
> > >pure-... at hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > >Hi All
> > >
> > >I have managed to receive some feedback for positive groups. However
> > >when I ran the experiment all the responses excluding negative
> > >responses were positive. I would like to script both negative and no
> > >response as blank and had managed to do only the negative.
> > >My script is as follows but now e-prime comes up with an error stating
> > >encountered: end of line
> > >Expecting: End if.
> > >
> > >My script:
> > >
> > >Dim CorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim IncorrectAnswer as String
> > >Dim NoResponse as string
> > >
> > >If "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > CorrectAnswer= "Correct"
> > >
> > >Else if "TrialStimulus"="sd" then
> > > InCorrectAnswer= "Blank.bmp"
> > >
> > >Else
> > > NoResponse= "Blank.bmp"
> > > End if
> > >
> > >
> > >I would like to know what the problem is and how I can fix it as there
> > >seems to not be working at all now.
> > >
> > >Thank you
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "E-Prime" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> >
> >
>
> --
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> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
>  --
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>
>
>



-- 

Meltem Ballan, PhD
Early Brain Development EEG Studies
Department of Psychiatry
School of Medicine
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
Phone:919-843-3793

-- 
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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 09:03:17 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 01:03:17 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <509a9571.cb96320a.765e.2f94SMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.010317.0800.>

Hi David,
Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file
(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it
all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it.

In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's
guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The
reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only-
was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is
blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to
me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous
slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it
was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode
during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay +
slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration
(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials.

The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and
I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these
seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset
delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some
anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their
durations equivalent.

I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if
that's the case.
thanks again,
Frank

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Fri Nov  9 21:16:11 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 16:16:11 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <11c45ca2-45b2-43ad-b64d-6e81163de939@qi10g2000pbb.googlegr
 oups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.161611.0500.>

Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's 
why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just 
think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some 
exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in 
the .edat files, and it should all make sense.

Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to 
Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then 
stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S 
will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were 
not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties 
of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use 
Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each 
one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their 
Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or 
equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your 
other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of 
OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event.

BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge:

     Const  SDuration as Long = 1000
     Dim  t0 as Long
     t0 = Clock.Read
     ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...>
     c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0)

And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of 
bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the 
fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of 
the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not 
even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the 
past myself).

I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the 
manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure 
that everything makes sense to you.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote:
>Hi David,
>Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file
>(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it
>all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it.
>
>In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's
>guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The
>reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only-
>was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is
>blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to
>me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous
>slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it
>was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode
>during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay +
>slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration
>(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials.
>
>The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and
>I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these
>seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset
>delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some
>anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their
>durations equivalent.
>
>I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if
>that's the case.
>thanks again,
>Frank

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Fri Nov  9 23:37:24 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:37:24 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <4a48f159-5ca4-4a5d-ba5d-602785212b20@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.NOV.2012.153724.0800.>

Thanks for your response, I think I'm getting the idea now.  One last 
question though: if the onset delay lasts several refresh cycles, what do 
the pixels on a CRT monitor display during this time?  

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sat Nov 10 18:58:14 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (S)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:58:14 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <509d72a8.8768320a.5ff0.23dcSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.105814.0800.>

Thanks for explaining more about  the uses for cumulative timing, I usually 
use event timing, because that's normally most important to me, but 
recently have needed to use cumulative timing for longer-term timing 
accuracy of trial & block durations. I have related questions about  event  
and cumulative timing, and combining them. If I have a visual stimulus what 
I want displayed for 100 ms (6 refresh cycles at 60 hz) and use event 
timing for this object, E-Prime documentation recommends setting the 
duration of that object to 90 ms to minimize the chance that E-Prime will 
miss detecting a refresh (a little more than half a fresh cycle to watch 
for the next vertical blank). I've tested this, and on our PCs I've found 
that it does reduce missed refreshes (though I've found subtracting 5 
rather than 10 ms works more consistently).  If I set the visual display 
duration to 100 ms, the onset to onset time (to the following object) will 
occasionally be 116 ms, but that almost never happens if I set the duration 
to 90 or 95 ms. I have the following two questions about event and 
cumulative timings:

   1. Is this adjustment (setting duration to about half a refresh less 
   than desired target duration) generally a good practice to achieve the most 
   consistent event timing durations for visual displays?
   2. How does this practice need to be reconsidered when using a 
   combination of event and cumulative timings? I've used only one or the 
   other, and have always set duration to the exact value I want when using 
   cumulative timing, but usually 5 ms less when using event timing (combined 
   with onset syncs and no clear after). 

-- Thanks for advice and suggestions (which I promise to test before using 
in my experiments).

On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:16:26 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's 
> why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just 
> think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some 
> exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in 
> the .edat files, and it should all make sense. 
>
> Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to 
> Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then 
> stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S 
> will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were 
> not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties 
> of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use 
> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each 
> one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their 
> Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or 
> equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your 
> other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of 
> OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event. 
>
> BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge: 
>
>      Const  SDuration as Long = 1000 
>      Dim  t0 as Long 
>      t0 = Clock.Read 
>      ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...> 
>      c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0) 
>
> And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of 
> bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the 
> fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of 
> the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not 
> even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the 
> past myself). 
>
> I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the 
> manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure 
> that everything makes sense to you. 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
> /---- 
> Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
> take any and all questions at 
> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
> strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
> much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
> it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
> (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
> ), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
> channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
> though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
> the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
> \---- 
>
>
> At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote: 
> >Hi David, 
> >Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file 
> >(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it 
> >all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it. 
> > 
> >In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's 
> >guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The 
> >reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only- 
> >was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is 
> >blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to 
> >me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous 
> >slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it 
> >was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode 
> >during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay + 
> >slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration 
> >(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials. 
> > 
> >The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and 
> >I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these 
> >seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset 
> >delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some 
> >anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their 
> >durations equivalent. 
> > 
> >I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if 
> >that's the case. 
> >thanks again, 
> >Frank 
>
>

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Sat Nov 10 23:27:52 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:27:52 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.152752.0800.>

Hi Scott, I'm just wondering where you saw in the E-prime documentation to 
set the duration less than (rather than exactly) at some multiple of the 
refresh rate?  Maybe I'll try doing that as well.  My (perhaps faulty) 
understanding of the E-prime documentation is a little different.  I 
thought what happens when you set the duration to less than an exact 
multiple of the refresh cycle is that you end up with a percentage of your 
trials displayed at the +1 refresh cycle and -1 refresh cycle that bounds 
that chosen duration.

So, say you used 90 ms in your case.  Your upper bound refresh cycle is at 
100ms and lower is at 100-16.7 = 83.3 ms.  The distance of your chosen 
duration from these two points determines the percentage of trials that 
will be of either the lower or higher duration.  So then:
90 - 83.3 = 6.7 ms.  Then divide that by the refresh cycle: 6.7/16.7 = 
40%.  Since it is  40% of the distance between refresh cycles you'd end up 
with 40% of your trials at 100 ms and 60% at the low end of 83.3 ms.  If 
you used 95 ms instead you'd get 95 - 83.3 = 11.7 and 11.7/16.7 = 70% so 
70% of your trials would be 100 ms in duration and 30% at 83.3 ms.  That is 
how i read it anyways, would be very interested to hear others thoughts!  

On Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:58:14 AM UTC-8, Scott wrote:
>
> recently have needed to use cumulative timing for longer-term timing 
> accuracy of trial & block durations. I have related questions about  event  
> and cumulative timing, and combining them. If I have a visual stimulus what 
> I want displayed for 100 ms (6 refresh cycles at 60 hz) and use event 
> timing for this object, E-Prime documentation recommends setting the 
> duration of that object to 90 ms to minimize the chance that E-Prime will 
> miss detecting a refresh (a little more than half a fresh cycle to watch 
> for the next vertical blank). I've tested this, and on our PCs I've found 
> that it does reduce missed refreshes (though I've found subtracting 5 
> rather than 10 ms works more consistently).  If I set the visual display 
> duration to 100 ms, the onset to onset time (to the following object) will 
> occasionally be 116 ms, but that almost never happens if I set the duration 
> to 90 or 95 ms. I have the following two questions about event and 
> cumulative timings:
>
>    1. Is this adjustment (setting duration to about half a refresh less 
>    than desired target duration) generally a good practice to achieve the most 
>    consistent event timing durations for visual displays?
>    2. How does this practice need to be reconsidered when using a 
>    combination of event and cumulative timings? I've used only one or the 
>    other, and have always set duration to the exact value I want when using 
>    cumulative timing, but usually 5 ms less when using event timing (combined 
>    with onset syncs and no clear after). 
>
> -- Thanks for advice and suggestions (which I promise to test before using 
> in my experiments).
>
> On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:16:26 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>>
>> Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's 
>> why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just 
>> think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some 
>> exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in 
>> the .edat files, and it should all make sense. 
>>
>> Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to 
>> Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then 
>> stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S 
>> will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were 
>> not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties 
>> of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use 
>> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each 
>> one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their 
>> Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or 
>> equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your 
>> other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of 
>> OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event. 
>>
>> BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge: 
>>
>>      Const  SDuration as Long = 1000 
>>      Dim  t0 as Long 
>>      t0 = Clock.Read 
>>      ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...> 
>>      c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0) 
>>
>> And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of 
>> bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the 
>> fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of 
>> the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not 
>> even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the 
>> past myself). 
>>
>> I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the 
>> manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure 
>> that everything makes sense to you. 
>>
>> ----- 
>> David McFarlane 
>> E-Prime training 
>> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>>
>> /---- 
>> Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
>> take any and all questions at 
>> http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
>> strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
>> much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
>> it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
>> (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>> ), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
>> channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
>> though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
>> the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others. 
>> \---- 
>>
>>
>> At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote: 
>> >Hi David, 
>> >Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file 
>> >(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it 
>> >all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it. 
>> > 
>> >In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's 
>> >guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The 
>> >reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only- 
>> >was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is 
>> >blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to 
>> >me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous 
>> >slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it 
>> >was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode 
>> >during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay + 
>> >slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration 
>> >(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials. 
>> > 
>> >The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and 
>> >I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these 
>> >seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset 
>> >delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some 
>> >anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their 
>> >durations equivalent. 
>> > 
>> >I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if 
>> >that's the case. 
>> >thanks again, 
>> >Frank 
>>
>>

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Sat Nov 10 23:28:57 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 15:28:57 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.152857.0800.>

 Hi Scott, I'm just wondering where you saw in the E-prime documentation to 
set the duration less than (rather than exactly) at some multiple of the 
refresh rate?  Maybe I'll try doing that as well.  My (perhaps faulty) 
understanding of the E-prime documentation is a little different.  I 
thought what happens when you set the duration to less than an exact 
multiple of the refresh cycle is that you end up with a percentage of your 
trials displayed at the +1 refresh cycle and -1 refresh cycle that bounds 
that chosen duration.

So, say you used 90 ms in your case.  Your upper bound refresh cycle is at 
100ms and lower is at 100-16.7 = 83.3 ms.  The distance of your chosen 
duration from these two points determines the percentage of trials that 
will be of either the lower or higher duration.  So then:
90 - 83.3 = 6.7 ms.  Then divide that by the refresh cycle: 6.7/16.7 = 
40%.  Since it is  40% of the distance between refresh cycles you'd end up 
with 40% of your trials at 100 ms and 60% at the low end of 83.3 ms.  If 
you used 95 ms instead you'd get 95 - 83.3 = 11.7 and 11.7/16.7 = 70% so 
70% of your trials would be 100 ms in duration and 30% at 83.3 ms.  That is 
how i read it anyways, would be very interested to hear others thoughts!  

-- 
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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Sun Nov 11 00:00:46 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:00:46 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.NOV.2012.160046.0800.>

Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
(based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
Just an idea.

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sun Nov 11 19:35:52 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 11:35:52 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <1b083fbe-1b5d-403a-8216-fdd48a94d5ff@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.113552.0800.>

Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
bold in the *E-Prime User?s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
E-Prime is as follows:
*Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
cycles) - 10ms*
Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one can 
never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or anything 
else). 

This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the documentation 
that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *EVENT* timing (in 
fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 3). Now that I have 
hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, please tell me: Has this 
recommendation changed? If so, someone *please* explain and set me 
straight. I usually have done this (except in certain circumstances), 
starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have more 
current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO timings in 
your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, across several hundred 
trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 100 ms? If it 
always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), then I suppose 
there's no reason to do it differently.

On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>
> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
> Just an idea.
>

-- 
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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sun Nov 11 21:04:27 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:04:27 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <2a3ead8f-a287-45eb-a936-4c2c4df64583@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.130427.0800.>

PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one 
object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use 
Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I was 
asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've 
confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another question 
(meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will explain 
how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix timing 
modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set 
durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I thought 
that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting 
the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*" to 
obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event durations 
for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only apply 
to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about what to do 
when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this "rule of thumb" 
even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused you 
(and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this 
discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I 
expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the answer 
is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test combinations 
of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
> Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
> EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
> account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
> timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
> if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
> 'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
> documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
> following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
> bold in the *E-Prime User?s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
> The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
> E-Prime is as follows:
> *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
> cycles) - 10ms*
> Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one can 
> never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or anything 
> else). 
>
> This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
> documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *
> EVENT* timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 
> 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, 
> please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone *please*explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except in certain 
> circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. 
> Maybe you have more current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for 
> actual OTO timings in your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, 
> across several hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration 
> for 100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), 
> then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>
> On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>
>> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
>> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
>> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
>> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
>> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
>> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
>> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
>> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
>> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
>> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
>> Just an idea.
>>
>

-- 
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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Sun Nov 11 23:10:42 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:10:42 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <b2b7874c-ad12-4e94-b00d-6093e95940c5@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.151042.0800.>

PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. Please note 
that I have NOT yet upgraded to the *E-Prime 2.0 Production Release*<http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>; 
I'm still using *E-Prime 2.0 Professional Release Candidate Build 2.0.8.90a*to avoid potential compatibility problems with programs our lab is current 
running, at least until I become more familiar with the changes. Obviously, 
some of the documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I posted 
are not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any 
reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's guide. 
Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further information 
column" does mention and provide the following link:
KB 3025 <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025> INFO: 
Fast/Single
Refresh Presentation in
E-Prime
This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion (which I've 
underlined) as before, under *Important Points*:
As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, *the general rule of thumb when 
working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the intended 
duration *to account for delays that result from waiting for the next 
vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, alone, may help 
you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.

When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find 
anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this 
unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. Nevertheless, I 
have found that following this rule can help minimize missed vertical 
blanks and the occasional extra refresh cycle for *E-Prime version 2.0.8.90a
*, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, even for display durations longer than 1 or 
2 refresh cycles. Obviously I need to carefully read the latest 
documentation and learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, 
before I say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the confusion. 
Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I admit I don't 
carefully read every post on this form, nor have I searched for other 
posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of thumb". I will do that 
asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
> PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one 
> object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use 
> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I was 
> asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've 
> confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another question 
> (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will explain 
> how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix timing 
> modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set 
> durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I thought 
> that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting 
> the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*" to 
> obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event durations 
> for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only apply 
> to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about what to do 
> when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this "rule of thumb" 
> even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused you 
> (and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this 
> discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I 
> expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the answer 
> is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test combinations 
> of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>
> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>
>> Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
>> EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
>> account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
>> timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
>> if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
>> 'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
>> documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
>> following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
>> bold in the *E-Prime User?s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
>> The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
>> E-Prime is as follows:
>> *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
>> cycles) - 10ms*
>> Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one can 
>> never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or anything 
>> else). 
>>
>> This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>> documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *
>> EVENT* timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 
>> 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, 
>> please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone *please*explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except in certain 
>> circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. 
>> Maybe you have more current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for 
>> actual OTO timings in your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, 
>> across several hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration 
>> for 100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), 
>> then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>>
>>> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
>>> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
>>> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
>>> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
>>> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
>>> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
>>> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
>>> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
>>> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>>> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
>>> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
>>> Just an idea.
>>>
>>

-- 
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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Mon Nov 12 00:04:19 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:04:19 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <2b92eccd-fbd5-493a-b4ad-f4b70e58583d@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.11.NOV.2012.160419.0800.>

OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
3027 - FEATURE: <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>RefreshAlignment 
locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to promote timing accuracy

It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE the 
production release, since this KB article seemed to have been originally 
posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently updated 1/4/2012 4:10:00 
PM (GMT). I don't see any extended discussions of this change, or exactly 
when it occurred, from a quick search of this forum for RefreshAlignment. 
However, your analysis, 
 FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of RefreshAlignment 
when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" . This feature change may 
have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first introduced and I overlooked it and 
the potential consequences of continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for 
E-Prime 1.  Again, I apologize for my confusion, and for interjectingconfusion into this forum.I'm not sorry to discover my error, however, and 
to learn things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly. 
Thanks!

On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
> PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
> discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. Please note 
> that I have NOT yet upgraded to the *E-Prime 2.0 Production Release*<http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>; 
> I'm still using *E-Prime 2.0 Professional Release Candidate Build 
> 2.0.8.90a* to avoid potential compatibility problems with programs our 
> lab is current running, at least until I become more familiar with the 
> changes. Obviously, some of the documentation has changed. The page numbers 
> and quotes I posted are not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I 
> cannot find any reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous 
> user's guide. Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further 
> information column" does mention and provide the following link:
> KB 3025 <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025> INFO: 
> Fast/Single
> Refresh Presentation in
> E-Prime
> This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion (which 
> I've underlined) as before, under *Important Points*:
> As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, *the general rule of thumb when 
> working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the intended 
> duration *to account for delays that result from waiting for the next 
> vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, alone, may help 
> you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>
> When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find 
> anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this 
> unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. Nevertheless, I 
> have found that following this rule can help minimize missed vertical 
> blanks and the occasional extra refresh cycle for *E-Prime version 
> 2.0.8.90a*, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, even for display durations longer 
> than 1 or 2 refresh cycles. Obviously I need to carefully read the latest 
> documentation and learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, 
> before I say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
> Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the confusion. 
> Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I admit I don't 
> carefully read every post on this form, nor have I searched for other 
> posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of thumb". I will do that 
> asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>
> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>
>> PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one 
>> object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use 
>> Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I was 
>> asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've 
>> confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another question 
>> (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will explain 
>> how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix timing 
>> modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set 
>> durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I thought 
>> that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting 
>> the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*" 
>> to obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event 
>> durations for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should 
>> only apply to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about 
>> what to do when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this 
>> "rule of thumb" even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I 
>> just confused you (and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing 
>> issue into this discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I 
>> apologize.  Regardless, I expect David eventually will explain why my 
>> question is dumb and the answer is simple. I admit that I have done 
>> nothing, so far, to test combinations of event and cumulative durations and 
>> timings within a trial.
>>
>> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for *
>>> EVENT* timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into 
>>> account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and cumulative 
>>> timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something wrong -- 
>>> if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms 
>>> 'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that the 
>>> documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just 
>>> following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in 
>>> bold in the *E-Prime User?s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page 99):
>>> The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify in 
>>> E-Prime is as follows:
>>> *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of 
>>> cycles) - 10ms*
>>> Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one 
>>> can never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or 
>>> anything else). 
>>>
>>> This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>>> documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *
>>> EVENT* timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 
>>> 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, 
>>> please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone *please*explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except in certain 
>>> circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. 
>>> Maybe you have more current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for 
>>> actual OTO timings in your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, 
>>> across several hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration 
>>> for 100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), 
>>> then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible your 
>>>> refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If so then 
>>>> when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times maybe that's 
>>>> because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is slightly higher than 
>>>> 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something a little less than 100 ms 
>>>> (based on my previous post about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to 
>>>> say 90 or 95 ms you are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a 
>>>> very high percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like 
>>>> this is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>>>> in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you will 
>>>> have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all trials.  
>>>> Just an idea.
>>>>
>>>

-- 
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From nockmss at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 11:09:55 2012
From: nockmss at gmail.com (Justin)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:09:55 +0000
Subject: Digest for e-prime@googlegroups.com - 4 Messages in 1 Topic
In-Reply-To: <90e6ba3fcd971c184004ce4a1eef@google.com>
Message-ID: <MON.12.NOV.2012.110955.0000.>

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM, <e-prime at googlegroups.com> wrote:

>   Today's Topic Summary
>
> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/topics
>
>    - Simple cumulative timing question <#13af441109236b15_group_thread_0>[4 Updates]
>
>   Simple cumulative timing question<http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/t/59a24c90b3f8b867>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 11:35AM -0800
>
>    Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done for
>    *
>    EVENT* timing. In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take this into
>    account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event and
>    cumulative
>    timings. Based on your response, I still might be saying something
>    wrong --
>    if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I really thought that this ~10 ms
>    'adjustment' was obvious in the documentation, though I also know that
>    the
>    documentation is old and could be outdated, and one cannot always just
>    following anyone's advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is
>    printed in
>    bold in the *E-Prime User?s Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing* (page
>    99):
>    The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to specify
>    in
>    E-Prime is as follows:
>    *Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number of
>    cycles) - 10ms*
>    Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because one
>    can
>    never assume that the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 hz (or
>    anything
>    else).
>
>    This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the
>    documentation
>    that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for *EVENT* timing
>    (in
>    fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of Chapter 3). Now that I
>    have
>    hopefully clarified what I was *trying* to say, please tell me: Has
>    this
>    recommendation changed? If so, someone *please* explain and set me
>    straight. I usually have done this (except in certain circumstances),
>    starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have
>    more
>    current documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO
>    timings in
>    your data when you have used *EVENT* timing mode, across several
>    hundred
>    trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 100 ms? If it
>    always works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), then I suppose
>    there's no reason to do it differently.
>
>    On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>
>
>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 01:04PM -0800
>
>    PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting one
>    object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use
>    Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I
>    was
>    asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry if I've
>    confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with another
>    question
>    (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I suppose David will
>    explain
>    how simple math can answer my question. I've been reluctant to mix
>    timing
>    modes in a trial or experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set
>    durations for various objects set for different timing modes. I
>    thought
>    that the documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for
>    setting
>    the "*stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration...*"
>    to
>    obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event
>    durations
>    for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only
>    apply
>    to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure about what
>    to do
>    when *combining* the two timing modes. Do you ignore this "rule of
>    thumb"
>    even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused
>    you
>    (and maybe everyone else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into
>    this
>    discussion of CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.
>    Regardless, I
>    expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the
>    answer
>    is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test
>    combinations
>    of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>
>    On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 03:10PM -0800
>
>    PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and
>    discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. Please
>    note
>    that I have NOT yet upgraded to the *E-Prime 2.0 Production Release*<
>    http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>;
>    I'm still using *E-Prime 2.0 Professional Release Candidate Build
>    2.0.8.90a*to avoid potential compatibility problems with programs our lab
>    is current
>    running, at least until I become more familiar with the changes.
>    Obviously,
>    some of the documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I
>    posted
>    are not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any
>    reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's
>    guide.
>    Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further information
>    column" does mention and provide the following link:
>    KB 3025 <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025> INFO:
>    Fast/Single
>    Refresh Presentation in
>    E-Prime
>    This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion (which
>    I've
>    underlined) as before, under *Important Points*:
>    As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, *the general rule of thumb
>    when
>    working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the intended
>    duration *to account for delays that result from waiting for the next
>    vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, alone, may
>    help
>    you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>
>    When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find
>    anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this
>    unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. Nevertheless,
>    I
>    have found that following this rule can help minimize missed vertical
>    blanks and the occasional extra refresh cycle for *E-Prime version
>    2.0.8.90a
>    *, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, even for display durations longer than
>    1 or
>    2 refresh cycles. Obviously I need to carefully read the latest
>    documentation and learn more about the new Production Release, and
>    test it,
>    before I say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using
>    the
>    Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the
>    confusion.
>    Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I admit I don't
>    carefully read every post on this form, nor have I searched for other
>    posting about this (possibly outdated) "rule of thumb". I will do that
>    asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>
>    On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>
>    Scott <saultsj at missouri.edu> Nov 11 04:04PM -0800
>
>    OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
>    3027 - FEATURE: <http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>RefreshAlignment
>
>    locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to promote timing accuracy
>
>    It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE the
>    production release, since this KB article seemed to have been
>    originally
>    posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently updated 1/4/2012
>    4:10:00
>    PM (GMT). I don't see any extended discussions of this change, or
>    exactly
>    when it occurred, from a quick search of this forum for
>    RefreshAlignment.
>    However, your analysis,
>    FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of
>    RefreshAlignment
>    when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" . This feature
>    change may
>    have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first introduced and I overlooked it
>    and
>    the potential consequences of continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for
>    E-Prime 1. Again, I apologize for my confusion, and for
>    interjectingconfusion into this forum.I'm not sorry to discover my error,
>    however, and
>    to learn things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly.
>    Thanks!
>
>    On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group
> e-prime.
> You can post via email <e-prime at googlegroups.com>.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send<e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>an empty message.
> For more options, visit <http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime/topics>this group.
>
> --
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>
>

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From grasszilla at gmail.com  Mon Nov 12 22:31:37 2012
From: grasszilla at gmail.com (FrankBank)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:31:37 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <b71c84cf-4756-4162-9c0e-49a653950268@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <MON.12.NOV.2012.143137.0800.>

 Hi Scott, I'm going to have to think about some of the issues that you've 
brought up to get a better handle on them myself.  In short though, please 
disregard everything I said previously, as I think you are much more likely 
to know what your talking about than I am at this point.  I apologize for 
confusing you further, since you are 100% right about the 10ms advice in 
chapter 3, and for some reason I completely forgot about that.  I was 
working from memory, and I believe I was recalling the equation on page 90 
(?) I think.  What that percentage is referring to I really have no idea 
now.

I do want to thank you though for bringing the 10ms issue to my attention.  
I'll have to play around with that further on eprime since I have generally 
used exact refresh cycle times and gotten millisecond accuracy almost 
always, but I usually run on a single computer so can see how using 
multiple terminals with slightly varying refresh cycles could make the 10ms 
option an important choice.

I'll post again after I've had time to reread chapter 3.  Thanks again 
Scott and I apologize for making you question your setup.

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 16:51:29 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:51:29 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <74506d2e-f416-42a9-8d66-51c1e33f5e4b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.115129.0500.>

Please do the following exercise:  Start with a new program.  Put the 
following three E-Objects in a Procedure:

- TextDisplay1:  "A", Duration = 1000, Data Logging = Time Audit
- InLine1:  Sleep 1000
- TextDisplay2:  "B", Duration = 1000, Data Logging = Time Audit, 
Timing Mode = Cumulative

Run this and observe the outcome.  How long does the "A" appear on 
the screen?  How long does the "B" appear?  Look at the results in 
the .edat file.  How long were the OnsetDelays?  How does all that 
compare with the prescribed durations of the stimuli and Sleep?  What 
would happen if you changed the prescribed durations?  Test your 
ideas by running again with different durations for the stimuli & 
Sleep.  What do you conclude about what appears on the screen during 
the OnsetDelay of a stimulus object using Cumulative timing 
mode?  Does it seem that the screen simply keeps showing whatever it 
already showed during this time?

-- David McFarlane


At 11/9/2012 06:37 PM Friday, FrankBank wrote:
>Thanks for your response, I think I'm getting the idea now.  One 
>last question though: if the onset delay lasts several refresh 
>cycles, what do the pixels on a CRT monitor display during this time?

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Tue Nov 13 16:56:54 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 08:56:54 -0800
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <286eb51b-62c5-423c-b6e2-c1b86f097afe@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.085654.0800.>

Hi Frank,
Which version of E-Prime are you using? If you use E-Prime 2, and haven't 
seen it yet, I suggest you download the new (to me) E-Prime 2.0 
Documentation. Especially check the *User's Guide (24MB<http://www.pstnet.com/support/transfer.asp?Location=http%3A//www.pstnet.com/downloads/e-prime/2.0/docs/UsersGuide.zip>
)*. It's critical timing guide is Chapter 4, and I don't think that you 
will find anything there like that 10ms rule of thumb. Also see my 
reference in a previous post to RefreshAlignment, which may significantly 
change things. (I've been unable to find this term, RefreshAlignment,  by 
searching any of the documentation available under the Help menu of E-Prime 
2.0.8.90a, which I'm using now.) As I explained, I don't know enough yet 
about this feature, exactly when it was introduced or how it's applied, to 
know what it all means. I think that PST's inconsistent, unreliable, and 
often untimely documentation has helped confuse us both. The truth may be 
out there, but I haven't found it yet., so I'll say no more, for now.
On Monday, November 12, 2012 4:31:38 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>
>  Hi Scott, I'm going to have to think about some of the issues that you've 
> brought up to get a better handle on them myself.  In short though, please 
> disregard everything I said previously, as I think you are much more likely 
> to know what your talking about than I am at this point.  I apologize for 
> confusing you further, since you are 100% right about the 10ms advice in 
> chapter 3, and for some reason I completely forgot about that.  I was 
> working from memory, and I believe I was recalling the equation on page 90 
> (?) I think.  What that percentage is referring to I really have no idea 
> now.
>
> I do want to thank you though for bringing the 10ms issue to my 
> attention.  I'll have to play around with that further on eprime since I 
> have generally used exact refresh cycle times and gotten millisecond 
> accuracy almost always, but I usually run on a single computer so can see 
> how using multiple terminals with slightly varying refresh cycles could 
> make the 10ms option an important choice.
>
> I'll post again after I've had time to reread chapter 3.  Thanks again 
> Scott and I apologize for making you question your setup.
>

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From ringril at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 17:29:30 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 18:29:30 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qrqnF0qwH_reQB1Px0VC6EckcGjkk8OY9Qwx1nC5oUoyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.182930.0100.>

Hello,

I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
 with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
perfectly well for our experiment.


If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then

Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
Set theMouseResponseData =
CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
End If

End If

Thanks a lot,
Eszter

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From ianajcxcx at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 17:36:39 2012
From: ianajcxcx at gmail.com (Courtney Griffin)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:36:39 -0800
Subject: key press/release & RT
In-Reply-To: <eef315eb-941e-4040-9031-84494e1e471f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.093639.0800.>

Still working on getting this experiment running. I have run into a bit of 
an issue. I now have two separate programs: 1) my actual 
stimulus/experiment etc, for the experiment and 2) the simultaneous button 
pressing portion (see experiment). when i try to merge the two, i.e. after 
the instructions are presented, I want the the subject to hold down the two 
buttons simultaneously and then move on to the actual experiment portion 
for each trial. (so simultaneous button -> stimulus response, simultaneous 
button -> stimulus response, etc) However, I cannot figure out how order 
them correctly so that it will do one process first and then the other. 
Either I keep getting these weird recursive loops or when I try to run the 
program I think will work, E-Prime force closes. Any assistance would be 
TRULY appreciated. 

Please see links to attachments (get an error when trying to attach to this 
post directly).

actual experiment: 
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B56AfyN3uE-FUUVxMERVYXYxeXM
button press: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B56AfyN3uE-FV0piRzJGUTNLazA


On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:26:31 PM UTC-4, Courtney Griffin wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am programming my first experiment with E-Prime and have run into some 
> issues I was hoping that someone might be able to help with. For my 
> experiment I will be having subjects simultaneously hold down two keys (u 
> and o), a stimulus is presented and they are to respond to it by releasing 
> one of the two keys and making a movement to another to respond ({TAB} or 
> {END}). Additionally, I would also like to record movement time (time from 
> release of key to response) and reaction time (time of release of one of 
> the initial keys). So far I have already gone in and allowed both Key 
> Presses and Releases. My issue is actually how to get the program to 
> recognize the release of the key and start recording the time, so I decided 
> to use the Clock.Read function, but I'm not sure exactly how to implement 
> it. Any assistance with this would be TRULY appreciated. Here is a bit of 
> the code I have come up with, but I know that I am probably nowhere near 
> where I need to be:
>
> Dim kbState As Integer
>
> Do
>
> If Keyboard.GetKeyState("u") = ebStatePress And _
> Keyboard.GetKeyState("o") = ebStatePress Then 
>
> If kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{END}")= 0 Then
> Clock.Read
>
> ElseIf kbState = Keyboard.GetKeyState ("{TAB}") = 1 Then
> Clock.Read - Stimulus.OnsetTime
>

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 17:56:15 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 12:56:15 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <9c6b4fdf-9f1f-41fe-aceb-63e833b9ca19@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.125615.0500.>

1) Yes, the advice in *footnote 10* on p. 99, section 3.4.2.1, of the 
original (& superiror) E-Prime User's Guide still applies:  For exact 
visual stimulus durations, set stimulus Durations at half a refresh 
duration before the desired duration.  (Note that the footnote 
supercedes the "10 ms" rule of thumb in the main text!)

2) You surmise correctly.  If you think through the simple math of 
Cumulative timing mode, you will see that the advice above does *not* 
apply here.  For Cumulative timing mode, the TargetOnsetTime of the 
next stimulus is based on the TargetOnsetTime of the current 
stimulus, which, *by design*, bears no relation to the screen 
refresh.  Timing things by screen refresh works only for stimuli that 
have OnsetSync set to Vertical blank, and use Event timing mode.

And the usual disclaimer:  Test all this for yourself (preferebly 
using a photodetector and oscilloscope), and also consult directly 
with the fine folks at PST Web Support.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)


At 11/10/2012 01:58 PM Saturday, S wrote:
>Thanks for explaining more about  the uses for cumulative timing, I 
>usually use event timing, because that's normally most important to 
>me, but recently have needed to use cumulative timing for 
>longer-term timing accuracy of trial & block durations. I have 
>related questions about  event  and cumulative timing, and combining 
>them. If I have a visual stimulus what I want displayed for 100 ms 
>(6 refresh cycles at 60 hz) and use event timing for this object, 
>E-Prime documentation recommends setting the duration of that object 
>to 90 ms to minimize the chance that E-Prime will miss detecting a 
>refresh (a little more than half a fresh cycle to watch for the next 
>vertical blank). I've tested this, and on our PCs I've found that it 
>does reduce missed refreshes (though I've found subtracting 5 rather 
>than 10 ms works more consistently).  If I set the visual display 
>duration to 100 ms, the onset to onset time (to the following 
>object) will occasionally be 116 ms, but that almost never happens 
>if I set the duration to 90 or 95 ms. I have the following two 
>questions about event and cumulative timings:
>    * Is this adjustment (setting duration to about half a refresh 
> less than desired target duration) generally a good practice to 
> achieve the most consistent event timing durations for visual displays?
>    * How does this practice need to be reconsidered when using a 
> combination of event and cumulative timings? I've used only one or 
> the other, and have always set duration to the exact value I want 
> when using cumulative timing, but usually 5 ms less when using 
> event timing (combined with onset syncs and no clear after).
>-- Thanks for advice and suggestions (which I promise to test before 
>using in my experiments).
>
>On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:16:26 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired.  That's
>why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply.  Just
>think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some
>exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in
>the .edat files, and it should all make sense.
>
>Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to
>Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then
>stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S
>will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were
>not there, which is just what you want.  That is one of the beauties
>of Cumulative timing mode.  The rest of your objects may then use
>Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each
>one.  Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their
>Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or
>equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your
>other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of
>OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event.
>
>BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge:
>
>      Const  SDuration as Long = 1000
>      Dim  t0 as Long
>      t0 = Clock.Read
>      ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...>
>      c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0)
>
>And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S.  I.e., they use of
>bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the
>fly.  But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of
>the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not
>even as exact.  So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the
>past myself).
>
>I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the
>manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure
>that everything makes sense to you.
>
>-----
>David McFarlane
>E-Prime training
>online: 
><http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx>http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
>
>Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster 
>(<https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster>https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)
>
>/----
>Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff
>take any and all questions at
><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp 
>, and they
>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
>it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
>(<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683>http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
>
>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
>channel 
>(<http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET>http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET 
>) (no Twitter feed yet,
>though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
>\----
>
>
>At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote:
> >Hi David,
> >Thanks for your response.  I looked over the help file
> >(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it
> >all works.  I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it.
> >
> >In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's
> >guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode.  The
> >reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only-
> >was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is
> >blank (a white screen).  Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to
> >me what is shown on the screen during delays.  Is it the previous
> >slide? A blank white screen?  It doesn't seem to say so I thought it
> >was a blank white screen.  Therefore I thought using cumulative mode
> >during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay +
> >slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration
> >(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials.
> >
> >The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and
> >I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these
> >seemed the best idea.  I only seem to be getting consistent onset
> >delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some
> >anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their
> >durations equivalent.
> >
> >I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if
> >that's the case.
> >thanks again,
> >Frank

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 18:12:26 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:12:26 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <b71c84cf-4756-4162-9c0e-49a653950268@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.131226.0500.>

Ignore the "created" & "updated" dates on PST KB articles, they 
sometimes draft those for internal documentation years before they 
implement the feature, and then take more time to release the 
implemented feature to the public.  KB articles often include a note 
on which versions they apply to, but that is missing from this 
article.  If you want to make a fuss about it, add an End User 
Comment to the article.

Anyway, this feature was introduced with either 2.0.10.182 or 
2.0.10.242.  With care, this feature may automate the "rule of thumb" 
insofar as it automatically advances the effective TargetOnsetTimes 
by a proportion that you specify.  But you still have to think 
through what stimulus Durations to prescribe in order to get your 
desired durations, and what actual durations will result from any 
prescribed stimulus Duration.  And then make sure to log needed time 
audit measures, and inspect those; better yet, test everything with a 
photodector & oscilloscope.

Finally, if PST documented this anywhere outside of the KB, then it 
would be in the New Features Guide that comes with the latest 
E-Prime.  Take a look there, I have not looked thoroughly at that myself yet.

-- David McFarlane


At 11/11/2012 07:04 PM Sunday, Scott wrote:
>OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
>
>
><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>3027 - FEATURE: 
>RefreshAlignment locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to 
>promote timing accuracy
>
>
>
>It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE 
>the production release, since this KB article seemed to have been 
>originally posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently 
>updated 1/4/2012 4:10:00 PM (GMT). I don't see any extended 
>discussions of this change, or exactly when it occurred, from a 
>quick search of this forum for RefreshAlignment. However, your analysis,
>FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of 
>RefreshAlignment when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" . 
>This feature change may have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first 
>introduced and I overlooked it and the potential consequences of 
>continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for E-Prime 1.  Again, I 
>apologize for my confusion, and for interjecting confusion into this 
>forum. I'm not sorry to discover my error, however, and to learn 
>things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly. Thanks!
>
>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
>discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. 
>Please note that I have NOT yet upgraded to the 
><http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>E-Prime 
>2.0 Production Release; I'm still using E-Prime 2.0 Professional 
>Release Candidate Build 2.0.8.90a to avoid potential compatibility 
>problems with programs our lab is current running, at least until I 
>become more familiar with the changes. Obviously, some of the 
>documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I posted are 
>not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any 
>reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's 
>guide. Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further 
>information column" does mention and provide the following link:
><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025>KB 3025 INFO: Fast/Single
>Refresh Presentation in
>E-Prime
>This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion 
>(which I've underlined) as before, under Important Points:
>As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, the general rule of thumb 
>when working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the 
>intended duration to account for delays that result from waiting for 
>the next vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). This, 
>alone, may help you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>
>When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't find 
>anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes this 
>unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. 
>Nevertheless, I have found that following this rule can help 
>minimize missed vertical blanks and the occasional extra refresh 
>cycle for E-Prime version 2.0.8.90a, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, 
>even for display durations longer than 1 or 2 refresh cycles. 
>Obviously I need to carefully read the latest documentation and 
>learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, before I 
>say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
>Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the 
>confusion. Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I 
>admit I don't carefully read every post on this form, nor have I 
>searched for other posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of 
>thumb". I will do that asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>
>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting 
>one object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use
>Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so I 
>was asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm sorry 
>if I've confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode with 
>another question (meant to be related) about Event timing mode. I 
>suppose David will explain how simple math can answer my question. 
>I've been reluctant to mix timing modes in a trial or experiment 
>because I wasn't sure about how to set durations for various objects 
>set for different timing modes. I thought that the documentation 
>recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting the "stimulus 
>duration to 10ms below the expected total duration..." to obtain the 
>most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event durations for 
>EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" should only 
>apply to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm more unsure 
>about what to do when combining the two timing modes. Do you ignore 
>this "rule of thumb" even when using only EVENT timing, FrankBank, 
>or have I just confused you (and maybe everyone else) by 
>interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this discussion of 
>CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I expect 
>David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and the answer 
>is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to test 
>combinations of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>
>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done 
>for EVENT timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take 
>this into account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of event 
>and cumulative timings. Based on your response, I still might be 
>saying something wrong -- if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I 
>really thought that this ~10 ms 'adjustment' was obvious in the 
>documentation, though I also know that the documentation is old and 
>could be outdated, and one cannot always just following anyone's 
>advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in bold in the 
>E-Prime User's Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing (page 99):
>The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to 
>specify in E-Prime is as follows:
>Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number 
>of cycles) - 10ms
>Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because 
>one can never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 
>hz (or anything else).
>
>This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, for 
>EVENT timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of 
>Chapter 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was trying to 
>say, please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, someone 
>please explain and set me straight. I usually have done this (except 
>in certain circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and continuing 
>with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have more current documentation, 
>FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO timings in your data when 
>you have used EVENT timing mode, across several hundred trials or so 
>when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 100 ms? If it always 
>works like that (with no extra refresh cycles), then I suppose 
>there's no reason to do it differently.
>
>On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible 
>your refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very close?  If 
>so then when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 ms times 
>maybe that's because the actual refresh rate of your monitor is 
>slightly higher than 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 = something 
>a little less than 100 ms (based on my previous post about 
>percentages).  Then, when you drop it to say 90 or 95 ms you are 
>under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a very high 
>percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like this 
>is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles is 
>in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly you 
>will have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across all 
>trials.  Just an idea.

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From ringril at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 18:18:33 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 19:18:33 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.191833.0100.>

Hello,

So, once again :)
I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
 with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
perfectly well for our experiment.




If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then

Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
Set theMouseResponseData =
CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
End If

End If


Thanks a lot,
Eszter

* *

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Tue Nov 13 19:41:40 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 14:41:40 -0500
Subject: Simple cumulative timing question
In-Reply-To: <50a28d97.078bec0a.0ddf.431aSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.144140.0500.>

Well, I just flipped through the New Features Guide, and indeed this 
feature is covered there on p. 15, section 3.4, and I think that 
makes it clearer than does the KB article.  I suppose it pays to read 
what documentation PST actually does provide with the product :).

-- David McFarlane


At 11/13/2012 01:12 PM Tuesday, David McFarlane wrote:
>Ignore the "created" & "updated" dates on PST KB articles, they 
>sometimes draft those for internal documentation years before they 
>implement the feature, and then take more time to release the 
>implemented feature to the public.  KB articles often include a note 
>on which versions they apply to, but that is missing from this 
>article.  If you want to make a fuss about it, add an End User 
>Comment to the article.
>
>Anyway, this feature was introduced with either 2.0.10.182 or 
>2.0.10.242.  With care, this feature may automate the "rule of 
>thumb" insofar as it automatically advances the effective 
>TargetOnsetTimes by a proportion that you specify.  But you still 
>have to think through what stimulus Durations to prescribe in order 
>to get your desired durations, and what actual durations will result 
>from any prescribed stimulus Duration.  And then make sure to log 
>needed time audit measures, and inspect those; better yet, test 
>everything with a photodector & oscilloscope.
>
>Finally, if PST documented this anywhere outside of the KB, then it 
>would be in the New Features Guide that comes with the latest 
>E-Prime.  Take a look there, I have not looked thoroughly at that myself yet.
>
>-- David McFarlane
>
>
>At 11/11/2012 07:04 PM Sunday, Scott wrote:
>>OK -- Here's some clarification and correction:
>>
>>
>><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3027>3027 - FEATURE: 
>>RefreshAlignment locks into nearest refresh vertical blank to 
>>promote timing accuracy
>>
>>
>>
>>It's something I missed that evidently was introduced even BEFORE 
>>the production release, since this KB article seemed to have been 
>>originally posted 1/5/2007 9:25:00 PM (GMT,) but subsequently 
>>updated 1/4/2012 4:10:00 PM (GMT). I don't see any extended 
>>discussions of this change, or exactly when it occurred, from a 
>>quick search of this forum for RefreshAlignment. However, your analysis,
>>FrankBank, appears to be correct regarding the consequences of 
>>RefreshAlignment when strictly applying the quoted "rule of thumb" 
>>. This feature change may have occurred when E-Prime 2 was first 
>>introduced and I overlooked it and the potential consequences of 
>>continuing to use a 'rule' I learned for E-Prime 1.  Again, I 
>>apologize for my confusion, and for interjecting confusion into 
>>this forum. I'm not sorry to discover my error, however, and to 
>>learn things about E-Prime that I need to research more thoroughly. Thanks!
>>
>>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:10:42 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>PPS - I just downloaded the most recent E-Prime 2 documentation and 
>>discovered that its critical timing chapter is much different. 
>>Please note that I have NOT yet upgraded to the 
>><http://www.pstnet.com/support/download.asp?Type=e-prime_2_0>E-Prime 
>>  2.0 Production Release; I'm still using E-Prime 2.0 Professional 
>>Release Candidate Build 2.0.8.90a to avoid potential compatibility 
>>problems with programs our lab is current running, at least until I 
>>become more familiar with the changes. Obviously, some of the 
>>documentation has changed. The page numbers and quotes I posted are 
>>not applicable to the most recent user's guide. I cannot find any 
>>reference to the "rule of thumb" I quoted from a previous user's 
>>guide. Nevertheless, page 94 of this new guide, in the "Further 
>>information column" does mention and provide the following link:
>><http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3025>KB 3025 INFO: Fast/Single
>>Refresh Presentation in
>>E-Prime
>>This Knowledge Base article still refers to the same suggestion 
>>(which I've underlined) as before, under Important Points:
>>As stated in the Critical Timing chapter, the general rule of thumb 
>>when working with critical timing is to subtract 10 ms from the 
>>intended duration to account for delays that result from waiting 
>>for the next vertical blank (the beginning of the refresh cycle). 
>>This, alone, may help you minimize the OnsetDelays in your experiment.
>>
>>When I search the new user's guide for "rule of thumb", I don't 
>>find anything. Maybe some feature in the Production Release makes 
>>this unnecessary or even bad advice. -- I'm really not sure. 
>>Nevertheless, I have found that following this rule can help 
>>minimize missed vertical blanks and the occasional extra refresh 
>>cycle for E-Prime version 2.0.8.90a, as well as for E-Prime 1.2, 
>>even for display durations longer than 1 or 2 refresh cycles. 
>>Obviously I need to carefully read the latest documentation and 
>>learn more about the new Production Release, and test it, before I 
>>say anything more about using E-Prime, much less start using the 
>>Production Release for my own experiments. I'm sorry for the 
>>confusion. Perhaps this has been discussed before on this forum. I 
>>admit I don't carefully read every post on this form, nor have I 
>>searched for other posting about this (possibly outdated)  "rule of 
>>thumb". I will do that asap, to find what I might have missed about this topic.
>>
>>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:04:27 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>PS -- My original response was to David's suggestion above setting 
>>one object for Cumulative and then: "The rest of your objects may then use
>>Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate...", so 
>>I was asking about using this combination of timing modes. I'm 
>>sorry if I've confused this thread about Cumulative timing mode 
>>with another question (meant to be related) about Event timing 
>>mode. I suppose David will explain how simple math can answer my 
>>question. I've been reluctant to mix timing modes in a trial or 
>>experiment because I wasn't sure about how to set durations for 
>>various objects set for different timing modes. I thought that the 
>>documentation recommended a "good rule of thumb..." for setting the 
>>"stimulus duration to 10ms below the expected total duration..." to 
>>obtain the most accurate (that is, consistent) individual event 
>>durations for EVENT timing mode. I assume that this "rule of thumb" 
>>should only apply to EVENT timing (thought maybe I'm wrong). I'm 
>>more unsure about what to do when combining the two timing modes. 
>>Do you ignore this "rule of thumb" even when using only EVENT 
>>timing, FrankBank, or have I just confused you (and maybe everyone 
>>else) by interjecting an EVENT timing issue into this discussion of 
>>CUMULATIVE timing; if the latter, I apologize.  Regardless, I 
>>expect David eventually will explain why my question is dumb and 
>>the answer is simple. I admit that I have done nothing, so far, to 
>>test combinations of event and cumulative durations and timings within a trial.
>>
>>On Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:35:52 PM UTC-6, Scott wrote:
>>Sorry if I wasn't sufficiently clear. This adjustment is ONLY done 
>>for EVENT timing.  In fact, what I'm asking about is how to take 
>>this into account, exactly what to do, when using a mixture of 
>>event and cumulative timings. Based on your response, I still might 
>>be saying something wrong -- if so, I'm sorry to to be unclear. I 
>>really thought that this ~10 ms 'adjustment' was obvious in the 
>>documentation, though I also know that the documentation is old and 
>>could be outdated, and one cannot always just following anyone's 
>>advice, even PST's. What I'm referring to is printed in bold in the 
>>E-Prime User's Guide Chapter 3: Critical Timing (page 99):
>>The equation to use for determining what stimulus duration to 
>>specify in E-Prime is as follows:
>>Stimulus Duration to Specify = (Refresh Duration ms/cycle * Number 
>>of cycles) - 10ms
>>Part of the reason for doing this, as I understand it, is because 
>>one can never assume that  the refresh rate will ever be exactly 60 
>>hz (or anything else).
>>
>>This is what I meant to say, but maybe I did not, because the 
>>documentation that I have seen seems pretty explicit about this, 
>>for EVENT timing (in fact they explain this for most of 2 pages of 
>>Chapter 3). Now that I have hopefully clarified what I was trying 
>>to say, please tell me: Has this recommendation changed? If so, 
>>someone please explain and set me straight. I usually have done 
>>this (except in certain circumstances), starting with E-Prime 1 and 
>>continuing with E-Prime 2. Maybe you have more current 
>>documentation, FrankBank. What do you see for actual OTO timings in 
>>your data when you have used EVENT timing mode, across several 
>>hundred trials or so when setting a 100 ms stimulus duration for 
>>100 ms? If it always works like that (with no extra refresh 
>>cycles), then I suppose there's no reason to do it differently.
>>
>>On Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:00:46 PM UTC-6, FrankBank wrote:
>>Scott, i just had one more idea about your issue.  Is it possible 
>>your refresh rate is not exactly 60hz, but something very 
>>close?  If so then when you set it to 100 ms and get occasional 116 
>>ms times maybe that's because the actual refresh rate of your 
>>monitor is slightly higher than 60hz so that the refresh cycle x 6 
>>= something a little less than 100 ms (based on my previous post 
>>about percentages).  Then, when you drop it to say 90 or 95 ms you 
>>are under the 6 cycle limit and so you start getting a very high 
>>percentage of full 6 cycle duration trials.  If something like this 
>>is the case than perhaps your actual multiple of a refresh cycles 
>>is in the range between 95 and 100 ms and once you find it exactly 
>>you will have consistent durations (somewhere in that range) across 
>>all trials.  Just an idea.

-- 
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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Tue Nov 13 20:19:38 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 21:19:38 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qpyH3cFecgiJt5Tj7qPFyB4HPOii2C4weEwGd+mESpSsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.13.NOV.2012.211938.0100.>

Hi Eszter,

You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to set
the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the advanced
button and edit max count). Then use the following script after the
stimulus object:

Dim iResponse As Integer
For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
    Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
    Set theMouseResponseData =
CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
    If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
        c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
theMouseResponseData.CursorX
        c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
theMouseResponseData.CursorY
        c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
theMouseResponseData.RT
    End If
Next

I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
working example.

Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to handle
the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more compact
edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate attribute
names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you could
implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the selected
objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a specific object
was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is slightly more complex
if response time recording should be accurate.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Paul


2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>

> Hello,
>
> So, once again :)
> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
> response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
> pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
> on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
> clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
>  with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
> perfectly well for our experiment.
>
>
>
>
> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>
> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
> Set theMouseResponseData =
> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
> End If
>
> End If
>
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Eszter
>
> * *
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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From nockmss at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 10:22:20 2012
From: nockmss at gmail.com (Justin)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:22:20 +0000
Subject: Digest for e-prime@googlegroups.com - 9 Messages in 3 Topics
In-Reply-To: <90e6ba3fcd977eabb604ce71a775@google.com>
Message-ID: <WED.14.NOV.2012.102220.0000.>



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From ringril at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 11:01:18 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 12:01:18 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-vBO9eK9b9jgLK1ZDwyDwn5f2qzdKoWCE2kyY4vODu75Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.120118.0100.>

Dear Paul,

thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in this case,
because we only get the x and y coordinates for the clicks whereas we need
to compare this with the small pictures coordinates on the screen.
I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) pinpoint
the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) picture within
the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial and 3) then we want the
program to decide whether the click of the responder was correct or not.
We thought that we might use something like an *if "mouse coordinate is XY"
< x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO. * Sorry for the form, but
unfortunately I still don?t know this language.

I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.

Thanks a lot in advance!!!
All the best,
Eszter


2012/11/13 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>

> Hi Eszter,
>
> You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to set
> the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the advanced
> button and edit max count). Then use the following script after the
> stimulus object:
>
> Dim iResponse As Integer
> For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>     Set theMouseResponseData =
> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
> theMouseResponseData.RT
>     End If
> Next
>
> I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
> too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
> working example.
>
> Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to
> handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more
> compact edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate
> attribute names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you
> could implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the
> selected objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a
> specific object was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is
> slightly more complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
>
> 2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> So, once again :)
>> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple mouse
>> response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of several
>> pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked to click
>> on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to them (8
>> clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's coordinates
>>  with the modification of the script linked below, which in fact works
>> perfectly well for our experiment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>>
>> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>> Set theMouseResponseData =
>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>> End If
>>
>> End If
>>
>>
>> Thanks a lot,
>> Eszter
>>
>> * *
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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>>
>>
>>
>
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From jonybony at gmx.de  Thu Nov 15 13:03:15 2012
From: jonybony at gmx.de (dietrijx)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:03:15 -0800
Subject: Simulate a key press to end a slide object similar to the
 WaitForFixation package
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.050315.0800.>

Hey,
I would like to program a script similar to the TETWaitForFixation 
PackageCall.
As far as I know, the WaitForFixation PackageCall keeps track of the 
subject?s gaze by actively accessing the .gazedata information. Once the 
gaze has been on the specified Sub-Object of the fixation slide for a 
predetermined amount of time a key press will be simulated, terminating the 
underlying loop and thus moving on with the rest of the experiment.
I would like to use a different algorithm that counts fixations and after a 
predetermined maximum count is reached the rest of the experiment should go 
on.
In addition I would like measure the RT either if the maximum count is 
reached or if the subject pressed a button to terminate the slide before 
the maximum count is reached. Like the WaitForFixation package call does.
The code for the new algorithm is not the problem, but I do not know how to 
terminate the slide and capture the RT once the maximum count is reached. 
Is there something like Slide.terminate to end the slide? Or is there a way 
to simulate a key press when the count is reached, like the WaitForFixation 
package call does when the predetermined amount of time is reached?
Then I could simulate the key press within the code of accumulated 
fixations and terminate the trial on keypress and get the RT.

So, do you know how I can simulate a key press to end a slide object?

Thank you in advance.
Jonas

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From marykatetompkins at gmail.com  Thu Nov 15 17:28:38 2012
From: marykatetompkins at gmail.com (MKT)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:28:38 -0800
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.092838.0800.>

We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two sites 
(OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any additional noise in 
the data or run into problems.

We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on Windows 7. 
Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about refresh rates? Is 
there a particular refresh rate you recommend?

Thanks for your help!

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Thu Nov 15 21:35:51 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:35:51 -0500
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
In-Reply-To: <ac532153-6b71-415d-a12b-9f2721038530@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.15.NOV.2012.163551.0500.>

Mary Kate,

Good question, I hope others weigh in.  Here are my thoughts.

Obviously, the more uniform the better.  So one might turn the 
question around and ask how much nonuniformity is too much.  And that 
will depend largely on the timing demands of the study, some studies 
have more stringent requirements than others.

Offhand, I would say that as long as each of your computer setups can 
robustly deliver millisecond-quality times, you should be OK.  You 
can and should test each one with the RefreshClockTest that you can 
download from PST, see Chapter 3 of the original User's Guide, or 
Chapter 4 of the revised version.  Bear in mind that RefreshClockTest 
just tests whether the system can keep up with the onboard 
millisecond clock, it does not test the accuracy of the clock per se, 
for that you would need to compare times with an external time 
standard.  In any case, you at least want all your machines to pass 
RefreshClockTest.

Matching refresh rates again depends on your timing requirements.  To 
take an example, If you have one display running at 60 Hz (refresh 
period = 16.7 ms) and another at 75 Hz (refresh period = 13.3 ms), 
and you ask for a Duration of 200 ms, then the one display will 
actually give you either 183 or 200 ms, while the other screen will 
give you either 199 ms or 213 ms.  You will have to decide whether 
that is acceptable.  Note that the production release (EP2.0.10.242) 
allows you to request a refresh rate 
(http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3465 ).  No guarantee 
that you will get what you ask, so still look at the value measured 
by E-Prime & reported in the .edat file.  (And go with the value 
measured by E-Prime, do not trust the refresh rate reported by Windows.)

I do not have any particular refresh rate to recommend, I do not run 
studies myself (I am a Systems Designer who helps others do their 
research), and I am embarrassed to say that I have never asked others 
what refresh rates they use, I will have to ask around.  Offhand it 
seems that faster is better as you get more exact times.  OTOH, I 
often tend toward lowest common denominators for greater 
compatibility, and for that reason might stick down at 60 Hz.  In 
truth, rightly or wrongly, I think we mostly just take whatever 
refresh rate we get and don't think about it.

You already plan to use the same size monitors at all sites, and I 
presume use the same display resolution.  I trust you will also seat 
subjects at the same distance so that visual stimuli subtend the same 
visual angle for all subjects.

Note that none of this affects the accuracy of response times, 
E-Prime has a very robust mechanism for gettting responses which is 
independent of the mechansims for presenting stimuli.

Now after all that, here is the short answer (Michiel, would like to 
chime in here?):  Chances are that whatever human behavior you 
measure has more variance than your measurement system.  That's not 
an excuse for getting sloppy when you can be exact, but maybe we need 
not fret too much about this; others have done statistical 
calculations to show that we can compensate for variance introduced 
by our measuring system merely by running a few more subjects (sorry, 
I don't have a citation handy).

So what do the rest of you think?  For that matter, what do others actually do?

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)


At 11/15/2012 12:28 PM Thursday, MKT wrote:
>We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two 
>sites (OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any 
>additional noise in the data or run into problems.
>
>We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on 
>Windows 7. Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about 
>refresh rates? Is there a particular refresh rate you recommend?
>
>Thanks for your help!

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Fri Nov 16 00:43:06 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 01:43:06 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qr0sN+HEWuS_Ve=EiW80U3Q1k3vMmdM=M0Sto1XF3=DPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.NOV.2012.014306.0100.>

Hi again Eszter,

There are several way's to do this, but assuming your bitmap pictures are
drawn unstretched in the middle of the screen (and have fixed dimensions),
then you could try something like this (be warned, this will be uggly):

        Const N_x As Integer = 4 ' number of images hor.
        Const N_y As Integer = 4 ' number of images vert.
        Const size_x As Long = 1000 ' width of bitmap in pixels
        Const size_y As Long = 776  ' height of bitmap in pixels
        Dim offset_x As Long
        Dim offset_y As Long
        Dim index_x As Integer
        Dim index_y As Integer
        Dim delta_x As Long
        Dim delta_y As Long
        offset_x = (size_x - Display.XRes)/2
        delta_x = size_x / N_x
        index_x = (theMouseResponseData.CursorX-offset_x)/delta_x
        offset_y = (size_y - Display.YRes) / 2
        delta_y = size_y / N_y
        index_y = (theMouseResponseData.CursorY-offset_y)/delta_y

        Dim index As Integer
        index = (index_y-1)*N_x+index_x
        debug.print "I=" & index & "  (" & index_x & "," & index_y & ")"

You could put this inside the if-then-endif part to get the subimage
indices of the selected images (ranging from 1 to 16; counting row-by-row)
The next thing to do would be a simple test if the indices match the
correct answer. Normally you would but the correct answer as attributes in
the trial list. However, because all 8 clicks are handled within a single
trial, you would have to specify the correct indices for all 8 clicks as 8
separate attributes (i.e. 'CorrectCLick.1', 'CorrectCLick.2' etc.).

        Dim correct_index As Integer
        correct_index = CInt(c.GetAttrib("CorrectClick." & CStr(iResponse)))
        c.SetAttrib "ClickACC." & CStr(iResponse), IIf(index =
correct_index, 1, 0)

I'm sure there are dozens of bugs in this code, but this is the general
idea if your stimulus is a single bitmap image. As said before, this is not
a very elegant piece of work. And there still things going wrong here (for
example: the black borders are also treated as valid subimage area). A more
elegant way would be to use a hidden bitmap that has a color map that
mappes the valid subimage areas to a subimage number. Then a simple
getpixel-call would return the selected image. (Also works for
non-rectangular areas.) Another option would be to use a slide with 4x4
separate slide images. This would also simplify the script because EStudio
has a special HitTest function that can be used to test which object was
selected.


Cheers
Paul


2012/11/15 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>

> Dear Paul,
>
> thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
> However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in this
> case, because we only get the x and y coordinates for the clicks whereas we
> need to compare this with the small pictures coordinates on the screen.
> I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) pinpoint
> the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) picture within
> the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial and 3) then we want the
> program to decide whether the click of the responder was correct or not.
> We thought that we might use something like an *if "mouse coordinate is
> XY" < x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO. * Sorry for the form, but
> unfortunately I still don?t know this language.
>
> I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.
>
> Thanks a lot in advance!!!
> All the best,
> Eszter
>
>
> 2012/11/13 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>
>> Hi Eszter,
>>
>> You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to set
>> the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the advanced
>> button and edit max count). Then use the following script after the
>> stimulus object:
>>
>> Dim iResponse As Integer
>> For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>     Set theMouseResponseData =
>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
>> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
>> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
>> theMouseResponseData.RT
>>     End If
>> Next
>>
>> I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
>> too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
>> working example.
>>
>> Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to
>> handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more
>> compact edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate
>> attribute names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you
>> could implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the
>> selected objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a
>> specific object was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is
>> slightly more complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>>
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> So, once again :)
>>> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple
>>> mouse response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of
>>> several pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked
>>> to click on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to
>>> them (8 clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's
>>> coordinates  with the modification of the script linked below, which in
>>> fact works perfectly well for our experiment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>>>
>>> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>> Set theMouseResponseData =
>>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>>> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>> End If
>>>
>>> End If
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>> Eszter
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
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> "E-Prime" group.
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>
>
>

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Fri Nov 16 15:44:11 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:44:11 -0800
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
In-Reply-To: <50a5603a.8768320a.4292.411cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.16.NOV.2012.074411.0800.>

Keeping in mind David's initial assessment, that concerns depend on the 
study paradigms and research questions, I think we also need to ask whether 
the two labs both use CRT or LCD monitors. If the latter, it might be more 
important to use the same monitors than the same computers. Sorry if I'm 
opening a can of worms, but admit I'm fishing for advice about this myself.

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:35:56 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Mary Kate, 
>
> Good question, I hope others weigh in.  Here are my thoughts. 
>
> Obviously, the more uniform the better.  So one might turn the 
> question around and ask how much nonuniformity is too much.  And that 
> will depend largely on the timing demands of the study, some studies 
> have more stringent requirements than others. 
>
> Offhand, I would say that as long as each of your computer setups can 
> robustly deliver millisecond-quality times, you should be OK.  You 
> can and should test each one with the RefreshClockTest that you can 
> download from PST, see Chapter 3 of the original User's Guide, or 
> Chapter 4 of the revised version.  Bear in mind that RefreshClockTest 
> just tests whether the system can keep up with the onboard 
> millisecond clock, it does not test the accuracy of the clock per se, 
> for that you would need to compare times with an external time 
> standard.  In any case, you at least want all your machines to pass 
> RefreshClockTest. 
>
> Matching refresh rates again depends on your timing requirements.  To 
> take an example, If you have one display running at 60 Hz (refresh 
> period = 16.7 ms) and another at 75 Hz (refresh period = 13.3 ms), 
> and you ask for a Duration of 200 ms, then the one display will 
> actually give you either 183 or 200 ms, while the other screen will 
> give you either 199 ms or 213 ms.  You will have to decide whether 
> that is acceptable.  Note that the production release (EP2.0.10.242) 
> allows you to request a refresh rate 
> (http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3465 ).  No guarantee 
> that you will get what you ask, so still look at the value measured 
> by E-Prime & reported in the .edat file.  (And go with the value 
> measured by E-Prime, do not trust the refresh rate reported by Windows.) 
>
> I do not have any particular refresh rate to recommend, I do not run 
> studies myself (I am a Systems Designer who helps others do their 
> research), and I am embarrassed to say that I have never asked others 
> what refresh rates they use, I will have to ask around.  Offhand it 
> seems that faster is better as you get more exact times.  OTOH, I 
> often tend toward lowest common denominators for greater 
> compatibility, and for that reason might stick down at 60 Hz.  In 
> truth, rightly or wrongly, I think we mostly just take whatever 
> refresh rate we get and don't think about it. 
>
> You already plan to use the same size monitors at all sites, and I 
> presume use the same display resolution.  I trust you will also seat 
> subjects at the same distance so that visual stimuli subtend the same 
> visual angle for all subjects. 
>
> Note that none of this affects the accuracy of response times, 
> E-Prime has a very robust mechanism for gettting responses which is 
> independent of the mechansims for presenting stimuli. 
>
> Now after all that, here is the short answer (Michiel, would like to 
> chime in here?):  Chances are that whatever human behavior you 
> measure has more variance than your measurement system.  That's not 
> an excuse for getting sloppy when you can be exact, but maybe we need 
> not fret too much about this; others have done statistical 
> calculations to show that we can compensate for variance introduced 
> by our measuring system merely by running a few more subjects (sorry, 
> I don't have a citation handy). 
>
> So what do the rest of you think?  For that matter, what do others 
> actually do? 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
> At 11/15/2012 12:28 PM Thursday, MKT wrote: 
> >We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two 
> >sites (OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any 
> >additional noise in the data or run into problems. 
> > 
> >We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on 
> >Windows 7. Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about 
> >refresh rates? Is there a particular refresh rate you recommend? 
> > 
> >Thanks for your help! 
>
>

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From ringril at gmail.com  Sat Nov 17 17:59:41 2012
From: ringril at gmail.com (Eszter Kormann)
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:59:41 +0100
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-uo8pp+6n0m0sNjraVdpgjQYLjZOyxqx0ZpEKimsKk1uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.NOV.2012.185941.0100.>

Dear Paul,

please don't get tired of my stupid questions... I have two more.:)


1)  I could not make this previous one work, so I decided to go into your
suggestion and ask how can I set up a slide that you have already
mentioned. I had this idea on my mind when I had started to plan the
experiment, but I thought that I will be challenging and hard to make
approximately 30 slides. But now I understood that the analysis of the data
will be a pain and even harder with this design, so I would be grateful if
you could explain how can I switch to the latter solution.

2) The second and most shamefully easy question would be in connection with
mouse hiding. I want the cursor to be hidden through the part, when the
program just shows the pictures. If it is there the cursor can be
distracting in a visual paradigm like this. However, I really need the
mouse to be shown when we ask for and register mouse response (through the
exposition of the grid exercise). I found this in the help, but I'm a
starter (it was a week ago when I first saw the programme.. ), and I don't
know how could I make this work.


'This example loops through the available mouse cursors.

'EXAMPLE PART A

Instructions.Text = "Press the spacebar to \n begin " &_

"the mouse cursors demo..."

'EXAMPLE PART B

Display.Canvas.Clear

Display.Canvas.Text 0, 0, "Display the available mouse cursors..."

Mouse.ShowCursor True

Dim i As Integer

For i = 1 to 13

Mouse.ShowCursor False

Mouse.Cursor = i

Mouse.SetCursorPos Display.XRes/2, 20

Mouse.ShowCursor True

Display.Canvas.Text 50, 25, "Current mouse " &_

"cursor value = " & Mouse.Cursor

Sleep 2000

Next i

Display.Canvas.Clear

Mouse.ShowCursor False

c.SetAttrib "Stimulus", "End of cursors demonstration "

StimDisplay.Run

'terminate the rest of the experiment

StimDisplay.Duration = 0 'do not display the normal StimDisplay

List1.Terminate 'do not cycle

'Note: To run this example with E-BasicExample.es, copy the script in
'EXAMPLE PART A above and paste it into the Setup InLine object. Next
'copy the script in EXAMPLE PART B above and paste it into the Before
'InLine object.


Thanks a lot!!!!!!

Eszter




2012/11/16 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>

> Hi again Eszter,
>
> There are several way's to do this, but assuming your bitmap pictures are
> drawn unstretched in the middle of the screen (and have fixed dimensions),
> then you could try something like this (be warned, this will be uggly):
>
>         Const N_x As Integer = 4 ' number of images hor.
>         Const N_y As Integer = 4 ' number of images vert.
>         Const size_x As Long = 1000 ' width of bitmap in pixels
>         Const size_y As Long = 776  ' height of bitmap in pixels
>         Dim offset_x As Long
>         Dim offset_y As Long
>         Dim index_x As Integer
>         Dim index_y As Integer
>         Dim delta_x As Long
>         Dim delta_y As Long
>         offset_x = (size_x - Display.XRes)/2
>         delta_x = size_x / N_x
>         index_x = (theMouseResponseData.CursorX-offset_x)/delta_x
>         offset_y = (size_y - Display.YRes) / 2
>         delta_y = size_y / N_y
>         index_y = (theMouseResponseData.CursorY-offset_y)/delta_y
>
>         Dim index As Integer
>         index = (index_y-1)*N_x+index_x
>         debug.print "I=" & index & "  (" & index_x & "," & index_y & ")"
>
> You could put this inside the if-then-endif part to get the subimage
> indices of the selected images (ranging from 1 to 16; counting row-by-row)
> The next thing to do would be a simple test if the indices match the
> correct answer. Normally you would but the correct answer as attributes in
> the trial list. However, because all 8 clicks are handled within a single
> trial, you would have to specify the correct indices for all 8 clicks as 8
> separate attributes (i.e. 'CorrectCLick.1', 'CorrectCLick.2' etc.).
>
>         Dim correct_index As Integer
>         correct_index = CInt(c.GetAttrib("CorrectClick." &
> CStr(iResponse)))
>         c.SetAttrib "ClickACC." & CStr(iResponse), IIf(index =
> correct_index, 1, 0)
>
> I'm sure there are dozens of bugs in this code, but this is the general
> idea if your stimulus is a single bitmap image. As said before, this is not
> a very elegant piece of work. And there still things going wrong here (for
> example: the black borders are also treated as valid subimage area). A more
> elegant way would be to use a hidden bitmap that has a color map that
> mappes the valid subimage areas to a subimage number. Then a simple
> getpixel-call would return the selected image. (Also works for
> non-rectangular areas.) Another option would be to use a slide with 4x4
> separate slide images. This would also simplify the script because EStudio
> has a special HitTest function that can be used to test which object was
> selected.
>
>
> Cheers
> Paul
>
>
>
> 2012/11/15 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>
>> Dear Paul,
>>
>> thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
>> However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in this
>> case, because we only get the x and y coordinates for the clicks whereas we
>> need to compare this with the small pictures coordinates on the screen.
>> I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) pinpoint
>> the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) picture within
>> the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial and 3) then we want the
>> program to decide whether the click of the responder was correct or not.
>> We thought that we might use something like an *if "mouse coordinate is
>> XY" < x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO. * Sorry for the form, but
>> unfortunately I still don?t know this language.
>>
>> I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.
>>
>> Thanks a lot in advance!!!
>> All the best,
>> Eszter
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/13 Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Hi Eszter,
>>>
>>> You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have to
>>> set the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click the
>>> advanced button and edit max count). Then use the following script after
>>> the stimulus object:
>>>
>>> Dim iResponse As Integer
>>> For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>>>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>>     Set theMouseResponseData =
>>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>>>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX",
>>> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY",
>>> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT",
>>> theMouseResponseData.RT
>>>     End If
>>> Next
>>>
>>> I also added the response time to the output because you might need that
>>> too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached script contains a
>>> working example.
>>>
>>> Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to
>>> handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a more  more
>>> compact edat-output file(because you don't have to generate separate
>>> attribute names for sequential responses). Another advantage is that you
>>> could implement more sophisticated constructions, like highlighting the
>>> selected objects as soon as they are selected or terminating after a
>>> specific object was selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is
>>> slightly more complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <ringril at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>>  Hello,
>>>>
>>>> So, once again :)
>>>> I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple
>>>> mouse response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists of
>>>> several pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People are asked
>>>> to click on those pictures within the grid which we had already shown to
>>>> them (8 clicks out of 16). How can I register all of the 8 clicks's
>>>> coordinates  with the modification of the script linked below, which in
>>>> fact works perfectly well for our experiment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>>>>
>>>> Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>>>> Set theMouseResponseData =
>>>> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>>>> If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>>>> c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>>>> End If
>>>>
>>>> End If
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot,
>>>> Eszter
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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>
>

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From saultsj at missouri.edu  Mon Nov 19 08:06:06 2012
From: saultsj at missouri.edu (Scott)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 00:06:06 -0800
Subject: Running experiment at two sites - match computers and refresh
 rates?
In-Reply-To: <50a5603a.8768320a.4292.411cSMTPIN_ADDED@gmr-mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.000606.0800.>

Hi Mary Kate,

I want to better explain my previous post (about LCD monitors) and reply 
more specifically to David's questions.

We are starting up a collaboration study with another lab. I'm responsible 
for helping design tasks and write the E-Prime programs, which include 
several programs with only behavioral measures and one that will also 
include ERP measures.

I'm not the PI; I have considerable input but don't have the final say 
about anything. Like you, I want to minimize noise and especially 
measurement bias between the two labs. I want to be practical and realistic 
regarding these goals. I agree with most everything David has said. I'm 
asking that factors that are easy to control and might affect performance 
and/or measurement be consistent between the two sites, including things 
you've already mentioned, like monitor size and resolution (also determined 
by E-Prime device settings) and operating systems. I also want to ensure we 
use the same refresh rate (60 hz), so I know how to set stimulus durations, 
and both sites will use the same version of E-Prime to run subjects. We'll 
check both PCs using E-Pime's timing tests, and if they pass I won't worry 
more about how similar the computers are.

I'm less sure than David about how robust E-Prime is with regard to 
measuring response times independent of the mechanisms for presenting 
stimuli. Both labs will be using the same kinds of USB button boxes (maybe 
not as precise as the PST SRBox, but it's consistent and convenient). I 
only encountered a difficult choice when it came to the computer monitors. 
E-Prime can accurately and reliably control and measure presentations of 
visual displays on a CRT monitor, and all CRT monitors work about the same 
(afaik). However, both labs use LCD monitors (I have no say about this), 
and LCDs monitors are more varied and complicated, especially with regard 
to timings. This has been discussed a before in post about *LCD monitors 
and Input lag* in this<https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/e-prime/lcd/e-prime/-Sn4BM61pVc/1RyXS8GTHaIJ>thread and maybe others. It's not easy to measure input lag. The refresh 
detector of PST's SRBox does not work reliably with LCD monitors (unless 
someone can tell me how to make it work). Onscreen timers and high-speed 
cameras are often used, along with photocells and oscilloscopes, but they 
all require extra equipment, time, and trouble. Moreover, there are 
questions about the implementation and accuracy of most of these methods. In 
fact, a rather thorough analysis by Thomas Thiemann, here<http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/specials/inputlag/inputlag.html>
, concludes: 

   - ...it is not an option to achieve a precise value for the image 
   processing time in the monitor using a camera. It is only possible to 
   indicate approximate areas in which the input lag of the monitor is likely 
   to be encountered, but subject to a rather large error. An evaluation of 
   the input lags of monitors using the photo method should thus lead to 
   sorting into rough classes such as the following:
      - - probably less than 1 frame lag / less than 16 ms lag
      - - probably one to two frames lag / 16 ms to 32 ms lag
      - - the lag is probably greater than two frames / greater than 32 ms.
   
Now I'm not sure E-Prime's RT measures would necessarily reflect this range 
of variability, but if so, it's more difference between labs than I'm 
comfortable with. Therefore, we decided to purchase the same new LCD 
monitors for both labs, hoping that that they probably would exhibit about 
the same amount of lag so that RTs and stimulus onset times would be 
displaced about the same amount in the measurements and recording of both 
labs. This was the best I could figure to do, for now, so we can get on 
with our research. In the meantime, I have someone working on a photocell 
circuit to connect to our EEG headbox that might allow me to measure the 
stimulus onset lags of our systems.

If you are using CRT monitors, good for you -- none of this matters. I'm 
not sure how much it matters, even if you do use LCD monitors. I would love 
for someone to explain why "LCD input lag" makes little or no difference 
for most research paradigms, and convince me I've no reasons to worry about 
this. I just thought I should share my concerns and some information that 
might be relevant to you and/or other researchers. I'd like to hear what 
others think. -- Thanks.

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:35:56 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:
>
> Mary Kate, 
>
> Good question, I hope others weigh in.  Here are my thoughts. 
>
> Obviously, the more uniform the better.  So one might turn the 
> question around and ask how much nonuniformity is too much.  And that 
> will depend largely on the timing demands of the study, some studies 
> have more stringent requirements than others. 
>
> Offhand, I would say that as long as each of your computer setups can 
> robustly deliver millisecond-quality times, you should be OK.  You 
> can and should test each one with the RefreshClockTest that you can 
> download from PST, see Chapter 3 of the original User's Guide, or 
> Chapter 4 of the revised version.  Bear in mind that RefreshClockTest 
> just tests whether the system can keep up with the onboard 
> millisecond clock, it does not test the accuracy of the clock per se, 
> for that you would need to compare times with an external time 
> standard.  In any case, you at least want all your machines to pass 
> RefreshClockTest. 
>
> Matching refresh rates again depends on your timing requirements.  To 
> take an example, If you have one display running at 60 Hz (refresh 
> period = 16.7 ms) and another at 75 Hz (refresh period = 13.3 ms), 
> and you ask for a Duration of 200 ms, then the one display will 
> actually give you either 183 or 200 ms, while the other screen will 
> give you either 199 ms or 213 ms.  You will have to decide whether 
> that is acceptable.  Note that the production release (EP2.0.10.242) 
> allows you to request a refresh rate 
> (http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=3465 ).  No guarantee 
> that you will get what you ask, so still look at the value measured 
> by E-Prime & reported in the .edat file.  (And go with the value 
> measured by E-Prime, do not trust the refresh rate reported by Windows.) 
>
> I do not have any particular refresh rate to recommend, I do not run 
> studies myself (I am a Systems Designer who helps others do their 
> research), and I am embarrassed to say that I have never asked others 
> what refresh rates they use, I will have to ask around.  Offhand it 
> seems that faster is better as you get more exact times.  OTOH, I 
> often tend toward lowest common denominators for greater 
> compatibility, and for that reason might stick down at 60 Hz.  In 
> truth, rightly or wrongly, I think we mostly just take whatever 
> refresh rate we get and don't think about it. 
>
> You already plan to use the same size monitors at all sites, and I 
> presume use the same display resolution.  I trust you will also seat 
> subjects at the same distance so that visual stimuli subtend the same 
> visual angle for all subjects. 
>
> Note that none of this affects the accuracy of response times, 
> E-Prime has a very robust mechanism for gettting responses which is 
> independent of the mechansims for presenting stimuli. 
>
> Now after all that, here is the short answer (Michiel, would like to 
> chime in here?):  Chances are that whatever human behavior you 
> measure has more variance than your measurement system.  That's not 
> an excuse for getting sloppy when you can be exact, but maybe we need 
> not fret too much about this; others have done statistical 
> calculations to show that we can compensate for variance introduced 
> by our measuring system merely by running a few more subjects (sorry, 
> I don't have a citation handy). 
>
> So what do the rest of you think?  For that matter, what do others 
> actually do? 
>
> ----- 
> David McFarlane 
> E-Prime training 
> online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx 
> Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster) 
>
>
> At 11/15/2012 12:28 PM Thursday, MKT wrote: 
> >We will soon be running the same experiment on E-Prime 2.0 at two 
> >sites (OSU and UPenn). We want to make sure we do not add any 
> >additional noise in the data or run into problems. 
> > 
> >We plan to use the same size monitors at both sites and run on 
> >Windows 7. Is it necessary to match computer type as well? How about 
> >refresh rates? Is there a particular refresh rate you recommend? 
> > 
> >Thanks for your help! 
>
>

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Mon Nov 19 19:19:46 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:19:46 -0500
Subject: multiple mouse click recording on a single picture (not slide)
In-Reply-To: <CAH_X+qrDuRUechoAqfZ1rZxEVb4u8F1U3xsOZ83ZutaE=Qn80g@mail.g
 mail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.141946.0500.>

Eszter,

2) To hide the mouse cursor, use
     Mouse.ShowCursor False
in InLine code; to show the cursor again, use
     Mouse.ShowCursor True
.

See the MouseDevice.ShowCursor topic in the E-Basic Help.

-- David McFarlane


At 11/17/2012 12:59 PM Saturday, Eszter Kormann wrote:
>Dear Paul,
>
>please don't get tired of my stupid questions... I have two more.:)
>
>
>1)  I could not make this previous one work, so I decided to go into 
>your suggestion and ask how can I set up a slide that you have 
>already mentioned. I had this idea on my mind when I had started to 
>plan the experiment, but I thought that I will be challenging and 
>hard to make approximately 30 slides. But now I understood that the 
>analysis of the data will be a pain and even harder with this 
>design, so I would be grateful if you could explain how can I switch 
>to the latter solution.
>
>2) The second and most shamefully easy question would be in 
>connection with mouse hiding. I want the cursor to be hidden through 
>the part, when the program just shows the pictures. If it is there 
>the cursor can be distracting in a visual paradigm like this. 
>However, I really need the mouse to be shown when we ask for and 
>register mouse response (through the exposition of the grid 
>exercise). I found this in the help, but I'm a starter (it was a 
>week ago when I first saw the programme.. ), and I don't know how 
>could I make this work.
>
>
>'This example loops through the available mouse cursors.
>
>'EXAMPLE PART A
>
>Instructions.Text = "Press the spacebar to \n begin " &_
>
>"the mouse cursors demo..."
>
>'EXAMPLE PART B
>
>Display.Canvas.Clear
>
>Display.Canvas.Text 0, 0, "Display the available mouse cursors..."
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor True
>
>Dim i As Integer
>
>For i = 1 to 13
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor False
>
>Mouse.Cursor = i
>
>Mouse.SetCursorPos Display.XRes/2, 20
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor True
>
>Display.Canvas.Text 50, 25, "Current mouse " &_
>
>"cursor value = " & Mouse.Cursor
>
>Sleep 2000
>
>Next i
>
>Display.Canvas.Clear
>
>Mouse.ShowCursor False
>
>c.SetAttrib "Stimulus", "End of cursors demonstration "
>
>StimDisplay.Run
>
>'terminate the rest of the experiment
>
>StimDisplay.Duration = 0 'do not display the normal StimDisplay
>
>List1.Terminate 'do not cycle
>
>'Note: To run this example with E-BasicExample.es, copy the script in
>'EXAMPLE PART A above and paste it into the Setup InLine object. Next
>'copy the script in EXAMPLE PART B above and paste it into the Before
>'InLine object.
>
>
>Thanks a lot!!!!!!
>
>Eszter
>
>
>
>
>2012/11/16 Paul Groot <<mailto:pfc.groot at gmail.com>pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>Hi again Eszter,
>
>There are several way's to do this, but assuming your bitmap 
>pictures are drawn unstretched in the middle of the screen (and have 
>fixed dimensions), then you could try something like this (be 
>warned, this will be uggly):
>
>         Const N_x As Integer = 4 ' number of images hor.
>         Const N_y As Integer = 4 ' number of images vert.
>         Const size_x As Long = 1000 ' width of bitmap in pixels
>         Const size_y As Long = 776  ' height of bitmap in pixels
>         Dim offset_x As Long
>         Dim offset_y As Long
>         Dim index_x As Integer
>         Dim index_y As Integer
>         Dim delta_x As Long
>         Dim delta_y As Long
>         offset_x = (size_x - Display.XRes)/2
>         delta_x = size_x / N_x
>         index_x = (theMouseResponseData.CursorX-offset_x)/delta_x
>         offset_y = (size_y - Display.YRes) / 2
>         delta_y = size_y / N_y
>         index_y = (theMouseResponseData.CursorY-offset_y)/delta_y
>
>         Dim index As Integer
>         index = (index_y-1)*N_x+index_x
>         debug.print "I=" & index & "  (" & index_x & "," & index_y & ")"
>
>You could put this inside the if-then-endif part to get the subimage 
>indices of the selected images (ranging from 1 to 16; counting 
>row-by-row) The next thing to do would be a simple test if the 
>indices match the correct answer. Normally you would but the correct 
>answer as attributes in the trial list. However, because all 8 
>clicks are handled within a single trial, you would have to specify 
>the correct indices for all 8 clicks as 8 separate attributes (i.e. 
>'CorrectCLick.1', 'CorrectCLick.2' etc.).
>
>         Dim correct_index As Integer
>         correct_index = CInt(c.GetAttrib("CorrectClick." & CStr(iResponse)))
>         c.SetAttrib "ClickACC." & CStr(iResponse), IIf(index = 
> correct_index, 1, 0)
>
>I'm sure there are dozens of bugs in this code, but this is the 
>general idea if your stimulus is a single bitmap image. As said 
>before, this is not a very elegant piece of work. And there still 
>things going wrong here (for example: the black borders are also 
>treated as valid subimage area). A more elegant way would be to use 
>a hidden bitmap that has a color map that mappes the valid subimage 
>areas to a subimage number. Then a simple getpixel-call would return 
>the selected image. (Also works for non-rectangular areas.) Another 
>option would be to use a slide with 4x4 separate slide images. This 
>would also simplify the script because EStudio has a special HitTest 
>function that can be used to test which object was selected.
>
>
>Cheers
>Paul
>
>
>
>2012/11/15 Eszter Kormann <<mailto:ringril at gmail.com>ringril at gmail.com>
>
>Dear Paul,
>
>thank you for your quick and amazing answer, everything works :)
>However, we faced the problem of marking good and bad answers in 
>this case, because we only get the x and y coordinates for the 
>clicks whereas we need to compare this with the small pictures 
>coordinates on the screen.
>I don't know if I made it clear or not, but we would like to 1) 
>pinpoint the frames for the small pictures 2) define which (small) 
>picture within the grid is meant to be a good answer in the trial 
>and 3) then we want the program to decide whether the click of the 
>responder was correct or not.
>We thought that we might use something like an if "mouse coordinate 
>is XY" < x1  > x2 then "YES", otherwise NO.  Sorry for the form, but 
>unfortunately I still don't know this language.
>
>I know it sounds awfully complicated, but I really need your help.
>
>Thanks a lot in advance!!!
>All the best,
>Eszter
>
>
>2012/11/13 Paul Groot <<mailto:pfc.groot at gmail.com>pfc.groot at gmail.com>
>Hi Eszter,
>
>You could change the inline script a bit, but you would first have 
>to set the number of allowed responses of the inputmask to 8 (click 
>the advanced button and edit max count). Then use the following 
>script after the stimulus object:
>
>Dim iResponse As Integer
>For iResponse = 1 To Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count
>     Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>     Set theMouseResponseData = 
> CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(iResponse))
>     If Not theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorX", 
> theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RespCursorY", 
> theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>         c.SetAttrib "Stimulus." & CStr(iResponse) & ".RT", 
> theMouseResponseData.RT
>     End If
>Next
>
>I also added the response time to the output because you might need 
>that too. (Or just delete that line if you don't) The attached 
>script contains a working example.
>
>Normally I would prefer a separate list object with 8 'subtrials' to 
>handle the individual mouse clicks. The advantage would be a 
>more  more compact edat-output file(because you don't have to 
>generate separate attribute names for sequential responses). Another 
>advantage is that you could implement more sophisticated 
>constructions, like highlighting the selected objects as soon as 
>they are selected or terminating after a specific object was 
>selected. However, the disadvantage is that it is slightly more 
>complex if response time recording should be accurate.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Cheers,
>Paul
>
>
>2012/11/13 Eszter Kormann <<mailto:ringril at gmail.com>ringril at gmail.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>So, once again :)
>I have a very simple problem in connection with collecting multiple 
>mouse response coordinates. We use a single picture which consists 
>of several pictures in a 4X4 grid (I've attached a sample). People 
>are asked to click on those pictures within the grid which we had 
>already shown to them (8 clicks out of 16). How can I register all 
>of the 8 clicks's coordinates  with the modification of the script 
>linked below, which in fact works perfectly well for our experiment.
>
>
>
>
>If Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses.Count > 0 Then
>
>Dim theMouseResponseData As MouseResponseData
>Set theMouseResponseData = 
>CMouseResponseData(Stimulus.InputMasks.Responses(1))
>If theMouseResponseData Is Nothing Then
>c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorX", theMouseResponseData.CursorX
>c.SetAttrib "Stimulus.RespCursorY", theMouseResponseData.CursorY
>End If
>
>End If
>
>
>Thanks a lot,
>Eszter

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From filizg at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 19:46:03 2012
From: filizg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?filiz_g=F6zenman?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:46:03 -0800
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.114603.0800.>

Hello,

I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.

Thank you in advance,
Filiz

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 20:49:18 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:49:18 +0100
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
In-Reply-To: <CAEX6K+YgPgEdrs6VgExijjQY17AYkjvCj_fkKrjHbSep35tY3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.214918.0100.>

Hi Filiz,

Just add another attribute to the trial list. You should have an attribute
that contains the filename of the stimulus image (i.e. "BmpFile") and
another for the correct answer (i.e. "CorrectAnswer"). Don't try to combine
this info into a single attribute value.

In some cases it might be useful to create a small inline script that
determines the correct answer at runtime and sets the CorrectAnswer
attribute on the fly. (By mapping the name of the bitmap to a specific key,
for example.) But only do this when you really have to...

Best
Paul


2012/11/19 filiz g?zenman <filizg at gmail.com>

> Hello,
>
> I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
> correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
> time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
> so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
> correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
> list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
> numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
> just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
> ".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
> way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
> both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Filiz
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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From filizg at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 22:32:54 2012
From: filizg at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?filiz_g=F6zenman?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:32:54 -0800
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
In-Reply-To: <CAKAdR-uMctT-J61sRA1zcZDGdd-j-XoRRNE=Ep6LvopOK77aww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.19.NOV.2012.143254.0800.>

Hi Paul,

The problem is my correct answer attribute is also has to be filename of
the stimulus. Correct answer changes every time according to the presented
stimulus, and stimuli are presented randomly from a list. So I had to set
the correct answer attribute as "image1.bmp'. I guess I need an inline
script to convert the responses from keyboard presses (i.e. pressing 1 on
keyboard means selecting image1, pressing 2 on keyboard means selecting
image2 & "image1.bmp"=image1) So that I can compare and calculate accuracy.
However I don't know how to write one.

Filiz


On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Filiz,
>
> Just add another attribute to the trial list. You should have an attribute
> that contains the filename of the stimulus image (i.e. "BmpFile") and
> another for the correct answer (i.e. "CorrectAnswer"). Don't try to combine
> this info into a single attribute value.
>
> In some cases it might be useful to create a small inline script that
> determines the correct answer at runtime and sets the CorrectAnswer
> attribute on the fly. (By mapping the name of the bitmap to a specific key,
> for example.) But only do this when you really have to...
>
> Best
> Paul
>
>
> 2012/11/19 filiz g?zenman <filizg at gmail.com>
>
>>  Hello,
>>
>> I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
>> correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
>> time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
>> so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
>> correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
>> list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
>> numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
>> just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
>> ".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
>> way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
>> both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.
>>
>> Thank you in advance,
>> Filiz
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "E-Prime" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
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> "E-Prime" group.
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> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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>
>
>

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From pfc.groot at gmail.com  Mon Nov 19 23:14:46 2012
From: pfc.groot at gmail.com (Paul Groot)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 00:14:46 +0100
Subject: Setting the correct answer and compare with response
In-Reply-To: <CAEX6K+ZOGW2m9M8UZzFxKdHum1ES9b-Ub-dFYC7kVKAX-QUi2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.20.NOV.2012.001446.0100.>

Hi Filiz,

Eprime will randomise by-row, so having multiple attributes in separate
columns is not a problem at all. In other words: stimulus filename and
correct response will stay paired, even after shuffling the trials. This
mechanism is explained in the manuals and demonstrated in lots of examples
offered by PST. If you use nested lists you should put both attributes in
the same list to make sure they stay together. And once you have the
CorrectResponse values in a separate attribute, you can simple put a
reference to this attribute in the 'correct response' property of the input
mask (using the bracket syntax: [CorrectResponse]).

best,
paul

2012/11/19 filiz g?zenman <filizg at gmail.com>

>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The problem is my correct answer attribute is also has to be filename of
> the stimulus. Correct answer changes every time according to the presented
> stimulus, and stimuli are presented randomly from a list. So I had to set
> the correct answer attribute as "image1.bmp'. I guess I need an inline
> script to convert the responses from keyboard presses (i.e. pressing 1 on
> keyboard means selecting image1, pressing 2 on keyboard means selecting
> image2 & "image1.bmp"=image1) So that I can compare and calculate accuracy.
> However I don't know how to write one.
>
> Filiz
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Paul Groot <pfc.groot at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Filiz,
>>
>> Just add another attribute to the trial list. You should have an
>> attribute that contains the filename of the stimulus image (i.e. "BmpFile")
>> and another for the correct answer (i.e. "CorrectAnswer"). Don't try to
>> combine this info into a single attribute value.
>>
>> In some cases it might be useful to create a small inline script that
>> determines the correct answer at runtime and sets the CorrectAnswer
>> attribute on the fly. (By mapping the name of the bitmap to a specific key,
>> for example.) But only do this when you really have to...
>>
>> Best
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/19 filiz g?zenman <filizg at gmail.com>
>>
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>> I have a problem with setting the correct answer. In the trial list the
>>> correct answer is set up according to the image name as an attribute. Each
>>> time 4 random images are shown and one of the image is the correct answer,
>>> so I had to set the correct answer attribute as "image.bmp". I cant set the
>>> correct answer as my attribute because it doesn't let me to use ".bmp"
>>> list. Also since this is a recall memory experiment, subjects have to press
>>> numbers from 1-6 for choosing the stimuli. Thus, their recorded response is
>>> just numbers. While the responses are numbers and the correct answers are
>>> ".bmp" names I can not compare them and get the accuracy. Is there a simple
>>> way to compare the correct answer and responses? What I do is converting
>>> both correct answers and responses on excel, but that takes A LOT OF time.
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance,
>>> Filiz
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  --
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>> "E-Prime" group.
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>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
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>
>

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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Wed Nov 21 21:00:00 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:00:00 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
Message-ID: <WED.21.NOV.2012.130000.0800.>

I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii 
eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit 
right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now 
receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error 
message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to 
engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.

Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
if that's the cause.

Thank you!
Alison

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From pquain at une.edu.au  Wed Nov 21 21:05:27 2012
From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain)
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 08:05:27 +1100
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <ce320514-40be-48c4-aa76-be2e3cbb9f1c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <THU.22.NOV.2012.080527.1100.>


64 bit OK, win 8 not:

http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=4026

At 08:00 AM 22/11/2012, you wrote:
>I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
>Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know 
>the 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 
>8, 64-bit) and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. 
>You can bypass the error message and it runs the first part of the 
>experiment, until it needs to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
>Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I 
>can fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 
>64-bit issue if that's the cause.
>
>Thank you!
>Alison
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
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>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/69YRfG214qIJ>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/69YRfG214qIJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 19:09:19 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:09:19 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <ce320514-40be-48c4-aa76-be2e3cbb9f1c@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <MON.26.NOV.2012.110919.0800.>

Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up? 
I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with 
XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program 
to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction 
effect?



On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley 
wrote:
>
> I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii 
> eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit 
> right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now 
> receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error 
> message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to 
> engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
> if that's the cause.
>
> Thank you!
> Alison
>
>

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From pquain at une.edu.au  Mon Nov 26 20:07:43 2012
From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 07:07:43 +1100
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <8de5584b-f974-4bcc-b7be-9f53b00bec79@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.NOV.2012.070743.1100.>


Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, 
the link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP 
drivers for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If 
no XP drivers, then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for 
an older one with XP?

At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up?
>I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility 
>mode with XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does 
>allow the program to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps 
>it's some interaction effect?
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller 
>Singley wrote:
>I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
>Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know 
>the 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 
>8, 64-bit) and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. 
>You can bypass the error message and it runs the first part of the 
>experiment, until it needs to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
>Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I 
>can fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 
>64-bit issue if that's the cause.
>
>Thank you!
>Alison
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
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><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/h4U2hcjsMIcJ>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/h4U2hcjsMIcJ.
>For more options, visit 
><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>

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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 01:11:52 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:11:52 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <201211262007.qAQK7i3p023936@mail12.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <MON.26.NOV.2012.171152.0800.>

Got it, thanks

On Monday, November 26, 2012 12:07:52 PM UTC-8, Peter Quain wrote:
>
>  
> Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, the 
> link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP drivers 
> for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If no XP drivers, 
> then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for an older one with XP?
>
> At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up? 
> I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with 
> XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program 
> to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction 
> effect?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley 
> wrote:
>  I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii 
> eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit 
> right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now 
> receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error 
> message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to 
> engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
> if that's the cause.
>
> Thank you!
> Alison
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "E-Prime" group.
> To post to this group, send email to e-p... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> e-prime+u... at googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/h4U2hcjsMIcJ.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>  
>  
>
>

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From thesportdr at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 01:49:33 2012
From: thesportdr at gmail.com (Sean Mullen)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:49:33 -0600
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <201211262007.qAQK7i3p023936@mail12.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <MON.26.NOV.2012.194933.0600.>

So EP doesn't work on Win 7?


On Monday, November 26, 2012, Peter Quain wrote:

>
> Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, the
> link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP drivers
> for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If no XP drivers,
> then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for an older one with XP?
>
> At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up?
> I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with
> XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program
> to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction
> effect?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley
> wrote:
>  I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a Tobii
> eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 32/64 bit
> right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) and am now
> receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the error
> message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs to
> engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue
> if that's the cause.
>
> Thank you!
> Alison
>
> --
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>
>
>

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From pquain at une.edu.au  Tue Nov 27 01:54:47 2012
From: pquain at une.edu.au (Peter Quain)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:54:47 +1100
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <CAKXPzZTRA7o1B9nw2QhErx9du421bomjBG6Kwo9_0PK55QdSFA@mail.g
 mail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.NOV.2012.125447.1100.>


yes it is supposed to - I'm just stuck in xp world (if it ain't 
broke, don't fix it) and didn't think much when replying to Alison 
... more likely to find win7 drivers, probably

At 12:49 PM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>So EP doesn't work on Win 7?
>
>
>On Monday, November 26, 2012, Peter Quain wrote:
>
>Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, 
>the link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get 
>XP drivers for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. 
>If no XP drivers, then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop 
>for an older one with XP?
>
>At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>>Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up?
>>I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility 
>>mode with XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does 
>>allow the program to run, up until the Tobii is required. So 
>>perhaps it's some interaction effect?
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller 
>>Singley wrote:
>>I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
>>Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know 
>>the 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 
>>8, 64-bit) and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. 
>>You can bypass the error message and it runs the first part of the 
>>experiment, until it needs to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
>>Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One 
>>I can fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 
>>64-bit issue if that's the cause.
>>Thank you!
>>Alison
>>
>>--
>>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>Groups "E-Prime" group.
>>To post to this group, send email to e-prime at googlegroups.com.
>>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>e-prime+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>To view this discussion on the web visit 
>><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/h4U2hcjsMIcJ>https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/h4U2hcjsMIcJ.
>>For more options, visit 
>><https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>
>--
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>
>
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>

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From alisontmsingley at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 22:58:38 2012
From: alisontmsingley at gmail.com (Alison T Miller Singley)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:58:38 -0800
Subject: Tobii Extension and Windows 8
In-Reply-To: <201211270154.qAR1sm4V014942@mail12.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.NOV.2012.145838.0800.>

Actually, in attempting to install EP 2.0.8 on a Windows 7 computer, it 
told me it's NOT compatible with Windows 7. HOWEVER it does seem to run.
If it gives you trouble, though, the compatibility mode is a neat trick: 
find the program settings from the Desktop or control panel (I forget 
exactly where I found it - Windows8 allows you to search for it) and go to 
the Compatibility tab.

On Monday, November 26, 2012 5:54:55 PM UTC-8, Peter Quain wrote:
>
>  
> yes it is supposed to - I'm just stuck in xp world (if it ain't broke, 
> don't fix it) and didn't think much when replying to Alison ... more likely 
> to find win7 drivers, probably
>
> At 12:49 PM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> So EP doesn't work on Win 7?
>
>
> On Monday, November 26, 2012, Peter Quain wrote:
>
> Alison, I just looked at the PST info on e-prime OS compatibility, the 
> link I posted. I don't know about Tobii issues. If you can get XP drivers 
> for your new laptop then just format and then instal XP. If no XP drivers, 
> then maybe trade with a colleague the new laptop for an older one with XP?
>
> At 06:09 AM 27/11/2012, you wrote:
>
> Thanks Peter - do you mind if I ask a follow-up? 
> I should have mentioned that I'm running EPrime in compatibility mode with 
> XP (using the Windows setting for the program). It does allow the program 
> to run, up until the Tobii is required. So perhaps it's some interaction 
> effect?
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:00:00 PM UTC-8, Alison T Miller Singley 
> wrote: I have an experiment that was built in EPrime 2.0.8 and runs on a 
> Tobii eyetracker just fine using a Window 7 computer (I don't know the 
> 32/64 bit right now). However, I just got a new laptop (Windows 8, 64-bit) 
> and am now receiving an EPrime error about TETConnect. You can bypass the 
> error message and it runs the first part of the experiment, until it needs 
> to engage the Tobii and then it shuts down.
> Any ideas whether this is a Windows 8 issue or a 64-bit issue? One I can 
> fix by installing a different OS; I don't know how to fix the 64-bit issue 
> if that's the cause.
> Thank you! Alison
>
>  -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "E-Prime" group.
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> .
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>  
>  
>
>
> -- 
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>  
>  
>
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>  
>  
>

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From ronghua0618 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 29 07:59:23 2012
From: ronghua0618 at gmail.com (Rongh Zhou)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 15:59:23 +0800
Subject: the feedback problem
Message-ID: <THU.29.NOV.2012.155923.0800.>

Hi,
When I use E-prime to do my experiment, there comes a problem.

What  I want to do is to present a picture, participants have to response
on the picture. There response must be string as the answers including 2
numbers. After they type in, there should be a feedback. If the answer is
right, they do next question, if wrong, they have to learn a material.

As the participants have to type string to make response, I don't know how
to judge whether their answer is right or not. The list can not put 2
characteristics as answers. And also, how to do the feedback?

So if there's any good idea to cope with it ?

-- 
school of psychology, Northwest Normal University
Lanzhou, Gansu.

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From wobaidan at gmail.com  Fri Nov 30 18:42:13 2012
From: wobaidan at gmail.com (Dan Brenner)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 10:42:13 -0800
Subject: Check files exist
Message-ID: <FRI.30.NOV.2012.104213.0800.>

Is there a way to get E-Prime to check that all sound or image files in the 
item lists are present without running through the experiment to find out?

Thanks!
Dan Brenner
U. Arizona

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From mcfarla9 at msu.edu  Fri Nov 30 20:26:29 2012
From: mcfarla9 at msu.edu (David McFarlane)
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 15:26:29 -0500
Subject: Check files exist
In-Reply-To: <aba7c1ca-f5b0-468f-9bb3-d16fbbae634f@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.NOV.2012.152629.0500.>

Dand,

Well, there is always the FileDirs() and FileExists() functions, 
which you can read about in the E-Basic Help, although that would 
take a bit of coding.  Then again, Experiment Advisor in the latest 
EP2 (2.0.10.242) contains a module for "Varying Filename not found" 
(http://www.pstnet.com/support/kb.asp?TopicID=4982 ), but I don't 
know how well that works -- perhaps you could try that and report back.

Finally, the latest EP2 also includes a "test run" facility for 
speeding up the run (up to a factor of 4) and providing automatic 
keyboard responses, so with all that it might not be too burdensome 
to just do a test run and see whether you get any run-time 
problems.  Best to run all Lists in Sequential order for this, so you 
can follow the progress and see where it was in each List when it 
crashes.  Good luck.

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training 
online:  http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter:  @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder:  1) I do not work for PST.  2) PST's trained staff 
take any and all questions at 
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and they 
strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty 
much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of 
it.  3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page 
(http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683 
), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube 
channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET ) (no Twitter feed yet, 
though).  4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend 
the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
\----


At 11/30/2012 01:42 PM Friday, Dan Brenner wrote:
>Is there a way to get E-Prime to check that all sound or image files 
>in the item lists are present without running through the experiment 
>to find out?
>
>Thanks!
>Dan Brenner
>U. Arizona

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