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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Actually, come to think of it, "</span>psychological effects as being under-rated in comparison with timing precision" <span style='color:#1F497D'>is not quite my point. Rather, both psychological effects <i>and</i> timing precision are very much over-rated in comparison to the middle levels. That is, with psychological effects ("higher level"), we can think of, say, a lexical decision making task taking 100 ms longer (about 10%, given that RTs are a bit longer) with word/picture incongruency. Then, the timing error can be in your hardware connection (say, polling rate) or software (e-prime, or say, windows wondering whether there's a lan connection). I'd call both these a more "lower level". To drive the point, I'll term the in-between part the <i>central level*</i>: how much time does it take from initiation of movement (say, the first millimeter of moving the finger downward) to actual "captured button press". In the thread mentioned earlier, I suggested <i>that </i>there's good reason to believe that this can be quite a bit; <i>that </i>motor noise may well make it more difficult to find effects; and <i>that</i> there's no reason to completely rule out that precious psychological effects may occur after response initiation ("true RT") but before response capture ("measured RT") by hardware, which is quite independent of timing errors and should be a cause for concern. It's a bit like allowing two reactions - in a lexical decision: "it's a word, oh no, it's actually not" and then reporting only the second reaction (I think it's an unspoken rule that this is incorrect, would people agree? I've heard of people who enter the correct answer as the only allowable and then measure RTs - which rather inflates them).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>To conclude on a more positive note: I thought I'd just like to say: make sure you have a really light response-box, joystick, or gamepad.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Mich<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><o:p> </o:p></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i>* </i>sorry, silly joke, I don't really see the arm as a central processing unit - but has anyone else noticed how psychologists just love to call this or that process occurring at a "central" level?<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> e-prime@googlegroups.com [mailto:e-prime@googlegroups.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michiel Sovijarvi-Spape<br><b>Sent:</b> 20 June 2012 12:36<br><b>To:</b> e-prime@googlegroups.com<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: response unit for E-prime 2.0 Professional with ERP hardware<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Moved from Nottingham to Helsinki, but yes, the issue remains :) On a related topic, I made some custom software to use the XBOX360 controller connected to E-Prime (also, for use as very cheap haptic system) - builds available here, but I've no problem with releasing the source (in c#). See: <a href="http://cognitology.eu/Experiments.htm">http://cognitology.eu/Experiments.htm</a> (under vibro-tactile feature integration). For adventurous coders, I suppose. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Michiel<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:e-prime@googlegroups.com">e-prime@googlegroups.com</a> [<a href="mailto:e-prime@googlegroups.com">mailto:e-prime@googlegroups.com</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Jones<br><b>Sent:</b> 19 June 2012 21:43<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:e-prime@googlegroups.com">e-prime@googlegroups.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: response unit for E-prime 2.0 Professional with ERP hardware<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'd also like to thank Ben very much for this information. I came to this group looking for instructions on how to build a serial or parallel response box. My department won't be able to approve a response box until the fall and I want some data now... <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The game controller option makes sense for so many reasons, including the psychological effect or context effect - perhaps pulling for more valid data - particularly in a stop signal paradigm. Seems to fit with what Mich (Psychology, Nottingham; sorry don't have thread handy) elsewhere about psychological effects as being under-rated in comparison with timing precision... <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Just to review: I can use a Logitech game pad - for example <a href="http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/gaming/controllers/7360">http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/gaming/controllers/7360</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and download a driver... I don't actually see a place to download drivers of the type Ben describes, but there is this information: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>____________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p><b>DirectInput (D)</b><o:p></o:p></p><p>DirectInput mode works with Windows drivers to enable basic input functionality. This input mode also lets you use the Logitech Gaming Software to customize the inputs for games that don't normally allow you to do so, or don't have gamepad support at all.<o:p></o:p></p><p>You can use the Logitech Gaming Software with DirectInput mode to assign a specific key or key combination to any of the buttons or thumbsticks on the gamepad. You can also assign each thumbstick to work like a joystick or mouse.<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='color:#BB1515'>NOTE:</span> Logitech doesn't provide configuration software for non-Windows systems, but many games allow you to configure inputs in-game. DirectInput mode lets the gamepad communicate with the drivers on many such systems.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>__________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>...And so using a driver and/or the above information, I will be able to assign an ASCII key or number to one or more gamepad buttons, right? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And e-prime will be able to add this device - as an input device or the type, "response box"? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And then what about the timing errors? I'm not so concerned, but can anyone estimate the timing errors for data logging? Is there a way to minimize the error by changing the input refresh rate somewhere? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks so much, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chris <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chris Jones, Ph.D.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Department of Psychology<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Kwantlen Polytechnic University<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Surrey, BC, Canada <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>On Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:17:25 AM UTC-7, ben wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>i've used a couple different USB controllers for this purpose over the years. they're so much cheaper than the cedrus boxes or the pst response boxes. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>both controllers i've used, and i would imagine all controllers of this type, have an accompanying driver which you download from the manufacturer's website and which allows you to assign a value to the various controller buttons. presses on the controller mimic keyboard button presses, so all you need to do in eprime is set the object collecting responses to look for a keyboard response (as opposed to a response from a mouse or a pst response box). for instance, set the object to accept '0' or '1', and then assign one button on the controller to be '0' and the other to be '1', turn off all the other buttons, and you're good to go.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>pretty straight forward.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/gamepads/devices/301&cl=US,EN" target="_blank">http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/gamepads/devices/301&cl=US,EN</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>ben<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Jeffrey Bedwell <<a href="mailto:jbedwell@mail.ucf.edu" target="_blank">jbedwell@mail.ucf.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br>Thanks for this info. Are you using this gamepad with E-Prime? If so,<br>do you write script to tell the software how to interact with the<br>gamepad?<br><br>-Jeff<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>On Apr 21, 9:20 am, <a href="mailto:baltimore....@gmail.com">baltimore....@gmail.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>> we use the logitech precision usb gamepad.<br>><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>> On Apr 10, 2009 2:09pm, Jeffrey Bedwell <<a href="mailto:jbedw...@mail.ucf.edu">jbedw...@mail.ucf.edu</a>> wrote:<br>><br>><br>><br>> > Hi. I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for a button response<br>> > unit to use with E-Prime 2.0 Professional in the context of ERP/EEG<br>> > experiments? The PST response unit does not appear to be ideal for<br>> > this because it has an A/C power cable coming up to the unit that may<br>> > cause interference with the ERP signal. I'd like some type of video<br>> > game controller or wireless unit that the participant can hold in<br>> > their lap comfortably. Also, if it can plug into USB port, that may be<br>> > ideal. Does anyone have any suggestions? Also, if anyone has<br>> > successfully used the PST response unit in the context of ERP/EEG<br>> > equipment, please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks. I'd<br>> > appreciate any feedback!<br>> > Jeffrey S. Bedwell, Ph.D.<br>> > Assistant Professor<br>> > Department of Psychology<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>> > University of Central Florida- Hide quoted text -<br>><br>> - Show quoted text -<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group.<br>To view this discussion on the web visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/cEXjWgmdWi0J">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/e-prime/-/cEXjWgmdWi0J</a>.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a href="mailto:e-prime@googlegroups.com">e-prime@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href="mailto:e-prime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">e-prime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>For more options, visit this group at <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en">http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en</a>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "E-Prime" group.<br>To post to this group, send email to <a href="mailto:e-prime@googlegroups.com">e-prime@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href="mailto:e-prime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">e-prime+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>For more options, visit this group at <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en">http://groups.google.com/group/e-prime?hl=en</a>.<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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