Thanks for explaining more about the uses for cumulative
timing, I usually use event timing, because that's normally most important to me, but recently have needed to use
cumulative timing for longer-term timing accuracy of trial & block durations. I have related questions about event and cumulative timing, and combining them.
If I have a visual stimulus what I want displayed for 100 ms (6 refresh
cycles at 60 hz) and use event timing for this object, E-Prime documentation recommends setting the duration of that object to 90 ms to
minimize the chance that E-Prime will miss detecting a refresh (a little more than half a fresh cycle to watch for the next vertical blank). I've
tested this, and on our PCs I've found that it does reduce missed
refreshes (though I've found subtracting 5 rather than 10 ms works more
consistently). If I set the visual display duration to 100 ms, the onset to onset time (to the following object) will occasionally be 116 ms, but that almost never happens if I set the duration to 90 or 95 ms. I have the following two questions about event and cumulative timings:<br><ol><li>Is this adjustment (setting duration to about half a refresh less than desired target duration) generally a good practice
to achieve the most consistent event timing durations for visual displays?</li><li>How does this practice need to be reconsidered when using a
combination of event and cumulative timings? I've used only one or the
other, and have always set duration to the exact value I want
when using cumulative timing, but usually 5 ms less when using event
timing (combined with onset syncs and no clear after). </li></ol>-- Thanks for advice and suggestions (which I promise to test before using in my experiments).<br><br>On Friday, November 9, 2012 3:16:26 PM UTC-6, McFarlane, David wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">Yes, the diagrams in the manuals leave much to be desired. That's
<br>why I prefer plain math, such as I gave in my earlier reply. Just
<br>think through the math and it should all become clear; also, run some
<br>exercises, log all the time audit measures, look at the outcome in
<br>the .edat files, and it should all make sense.
<br>
<br>Basically, you surmise correctly that if stimulus S is set to
<br>Cumulative and follows an InLine that takes up some time, then
<br>stimulus S will still end (or equivalently, the stimulus following S
<br>will start) at the same time that it would have if the InLine were
<br>not there, which is just what you want. That is one of the beauties
<br>of Cumulative timing mode. The rest of your objects may then use
<br>Event or Cumulative timing mode, as seems most appropriate for each
<br>one. Typically people use Cumulative on all the objects in their
<br>Procedures in order to keep synchronized with external events or
<br>equipment (e.g., fMRI volume scans), but yes if you want all your
<br>other objects to last at least their full Durations regardless of
<br>OnsetDelays, then you should keep them at Event.
<br>
<br>BTW, more commonly people resort to the following sort of kludge:
<br>
<br> Const SDuration as Long = 1000
<br> Dim t0 as Long
<br> t0 = Clock.Read
<br> ' <the rest of your InLine goes here...>
<br> c.SetAttrib "SDuration", SDuration - (Clock.Read - t0)
<br>
<br>And then use [SDuration] for the Duration of S. I.e., they use of
<br>bunch of extra inline code to adjust the stimulus Duration on the
<br>fly. But this is a lot of extra work, it fails to take advantage of
<br>the timing facilities already built in to E-Prime objects, and is not
<br>even as exact. So I prefer your approach (and have done this in the
<br>past myself).
<br>
<br>I stress again, please do not believe anything that you read in the
<br>manuals or here (not even from me), run your own tests and make sure
<br>that everything makes sense to you.
<br>
<br>-----
<br>David McFarlane
<br>E-Prime training
<br>online: <a href="http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx" target="_blank">http://psychology.msu.edu/<wbr>Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx</a>
<br>Twitter: @EPrimeMaster (<a href="https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/<wbr>EPrimeMaster</a>)
<br>
<br>/----
<br>Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) PST's trained staff
<br>take any and all questions at
<br><a href="http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp" target="_blank">http://support.pstnet.com/e%<wbr>2Dprime/support/login.asp</a> , and they
<br>strive to respond to all requests in 24-48 hours -- this is pretty
<br>much their substitute for proper documentation, so make full use of
<br>it. 3) In addition, PST takes questions at their Facebook page
<br>(<a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Psychology-Software-Tools-Inc/241802160683" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/<wbr>pages/Psychology-Software-<wbr>Tools-Inc/241802160683</a>
<br>), and offers several instructional videos there and on their YouTube
<br>channel (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/PSTNET" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/<wbr>PSTNET</a> ) (no Twitter feed yet,
<br>though). 4) If you do get an answer from PST staff, please extend
<br>the courtesy of posting their reply back here for the sake of others.
<br>\----
<br>
<br>
<br>At 11/9/2012 04:03 AM Friday, FrankBank wrote:
<br>>Hi David,
<br>>Thanks for your response. I looked over the help file
<br>>(GetNextTargetOnsetTime, etc) and had a hard time understanding how it
<br>>all works. I'll try again though and see if I can make sense of it.
<br>>
<br>>In the meantime, I am looking at figure 9 in Chapter 3 of the user's
<br>>guide (page 90) that compares event mode and cumulative mode. The
<br>>reason I thought cumulative would be good for the first slide -only-
<br>>was because that slide is the only slide in the procedure that is
<br>>blank (a white screen). Looking at the user's guide it isn't clear to
<br>>me what is shown on the screen during delays. Is it the previous
<br>>slide? A blank white screen? It doesn't seem to say so I thought it
<br>>was a blank white screen. Therefore I thought using cumulative mode
<br>>during my blank slide would seem the best choice, since the delay +
<br>>slide time would give me a consistent blank white screen duration
<br>>(delay+ shortened slide 1 duration) across all trials.
<br>>
<br>>The rest of my slides in the procedure have stimulus presentations and
<br>>I would like to keep their durations fixed, so event timing for these
<br>>seemed the best idea. I only seem to be getting consistent onset
<br>>delays with the first slide after the inline, so if their was some
<br>>anomalous delay for the later slides event timing would keep their
<br>>durations equivalent.
<br>>
<br>>I feel like maybe I'm missing something here, so please let me know if
<br>>that's the case.
<br>>thanks again,
<br>>Frank
<br>
<br></blockquote>
<p></p>
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