naming a language

[dharv at mail.optusnet.com.au]

I don't know how Afghanis pronounce Afghanistan, but every Pakistani 
that I've ever heard pronounce the name of his country used back 
vowels both first and second.

At 11:45 AM -0400 2/4/09, Straight, H. Stephen wrote:
>My impression of this discussion, with some exceptions, is that it 
>reveals that even linguists sometimes fail to inquire about how a 
>given name (or other word, for that matter) is pronounced by 
>speakers of the language from which it comes.  The result is 
>sometimes Anglicization but almost as often IPA-icization (as in the 
>case of Bengali).  I'd be curious to know the story behind the 
>pronunciation of Afghanistan and Pakistan.  What I think I'm hearing 
>now from Barack Obama is front vowels in the first and back vowels 
>in the second.  Can anyone provide a rationale for this pattern or 
>otherwise enlighten us about these two (and Iraq and Iran, too, 
>while you're at it)?
>
>Best.  'Bye.  Steve 
>
>H Stephen Straight, PhD
>Binghamton University, State University of New York
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu 
>[mailto:funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of 
>john at research.haifa.ac.il
>Sent: Thursday 2 April 2009 11:15
>To: Claire Bowern
>Cc: Mikael Parkvall; Paul Hopper; Sydney Lamb; funknet at mailman.rice.edu
>Subject: Re: [FUNKNET] naming a language
>
>I think the general idea is that if it's native speakers making the
>'mistakes', then it's okay and interesting. But if it's people who 
>do it because
>they think they know something about the language but they really don't, it's
>irritating.
>
>Or am I just rationalizing?
>John
>
>
>
>Quoting Claire Bowern <clairebowern at gmail.com>:
>
>>  I am amused by the general prescriptive feeling that has been evident in
>>  this discussion from the use of phrases like 'irritating errors'. It's
>>  language change and language use, people!
>>  Aren't functional linguists supposed to like this sort of thing?
>>  Claire
>>
>>
>>  -------------
>>  Claire Bowern
>>  Department of Linguistics
>>  Yale University
>>
>
>
>
>
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David Harvey
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