Associative plurals

[Michel LAUNEY]

Actually, in the same region (Poitou-Charentes, Centre-west of France) 
I often heard "chez" (normally a preposition meaning "at X's house"): 
"Chez Jean viennent ce soir", with the same meaning (Jean and his 
family)
Michel Launey


On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 07:51:00 +0200
  Stéphane Robert <robert at vjf.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> In French too, some people use the plural definite article with a 
>masculine (probably as an heritage of the Napoleonian code!) proper 
>name to refer to a man and his family like in:
> "Les Jean(s ?) viennent ce soir"
> meaning "Jean, his wife and kids".
> 
> I don't use this construction but I have heard it from people 
>originating form Western part of France (Charentes-Poitou); I don't 
>know if it is regionally or socially connotated but for me it has a 
>vague popular connotation. It seems to be more commonly used inside a 
>family where the reference to the person ("Jean") is obvious.
> 
> Stéphane Robert
> 
> 
> Le 06:01 05/04/2011,Yokoyama, Olga écrit:
>>In Japanese, you can add them to kinship terms as well 
>>(o-kaa-san-tachi 'mother et al'). In the 19th century Russian peasant 
>>letters (by speakers of North Russian dialect)) I have found a 
>>similar phenomenon with a subject personal name in sg but with pl 
>>verb agreement (e.g. John were, meaning 'John and wife were').
>>
>>
>>
>>Olga T. Yokoyama
>>
>>Professor
>>
>>Department of Applied Linguistics
>>
>>University of California, Los Angeles
>>
>>Tel. (310) 825-7694
>>
>>Fax (310) 206-4118
>>
>>http://www.appling.ucla.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu 
>>[mailto:funknet-bounces at mailman.rice.edu] On Behalf Of Marianne 
>>Mithun
>>Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:24 PM
>>To: funknet
>>Subject: Re: [FUNKNET] Associative plurals
>>
>>
>>
>>There is an article on this:
>>
>>
>>
>>Corbett, Grevill and Marianne Mithun. 1996. Associative forms in a 
>>typology
>>
>>of number systems: evidence from Yup'ik. Journal of Linguistics 32: 
>>1-17.
>>
>>
>>
>>Central Alaska Yup'ik Eskimo, and Central Pomo, among many other 
>>languages
>>
>>have these. You can add them to proper names.
>>
>>
>>
>>Marianne Mithun
>>
>>
>>
>>--On Monday, April 04, 2011 9:59 PM -0500 David Tuggy 
>><david_tuggy at sil.org>
>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hello, all,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I'm interested in a phenomenon that I understand some to have 
>>called
>>
>> > "associative plurality", in which a plural does not designate a 
>>group of
>>
>> > items all properly designated by the pluralized nominal entity but 
>>rather
>>
>> > a group of items associated with such a nominal entity. It shows 
>>up
>>
>> > dramatically in pluralized personal names, where something like 
>>_the
>>
>> > Alices_ will mean not 'the group of people each called "Alice"' 
>>but
>>
>> > rather 'Alice and those associated with her (i.e. her
>>
>> > bunch/family/team/crew/party/etc.)' In Orizaba Nawatl (nlv), for 
>>instance,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > New?itzeh n ichpopochtih koxamo tlahtlaniskeh inka n Samueltih.
>>
>> > yonder.they.come the girl.pl whether they.will.ask with.them the 
>>Samuel.pl
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Those girls that are coming over there are probably going to ask 
>>after
>>
>> > Samuel and his friends.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Here girl.pl is a normal plural, meaning 'group of people each of 
>>which
>>
>> > is a girl', but Samuel.pl is associative. Note too the plurality 
>>of the
>>
>> > 'agreement-marker' postpositional object in the word 'with.them':
>>
>> > sometimes that kind of thing is the only marker for an associative 
>>plural
>>
>> > in Orizaba: _Samuel inkal_ (Samuel their.house) means 'the house 
>>of
>>
>> > Samuel's family/group'.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > My two main questions:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > (1) How widespread a phenomenon is this? What languages allow an
>>
>> > associative plural for proper names? (Are there any varieties of
>>
>> > English/Spanish/etc. that allow it?) Do they also allow a 
>>standard-plural
>>
>> > interpretation?
>>
>> > (2) What other kinds of nominal entities show something similar? 
>>E.g. in
>>
>> > my English _dishes_ often means 'dishes [= plates] and other such 
>>things,
>>
>> > e.g. silverware, glasses, pots & pans'; does that count? Does any
>>
>> > language allow associative plurals for just any noun? What about 
>>1st and
>>
>> > 2nd person plural pronouns, where perhaps only one person is 
>>speaker or
>>
>> > addressee, but another group is associated with that person to 
>>make the
>>
>> > plurality. Does any language *not* allow an associative plural 
>>meaning
>>
>> > for them? Does any language distinguish a 'multiple speaker' 1pl 
>>pronoun
>>
>> > from an associative one?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Pointers to any good discussions of this in the literature would 
>>be
>>
>> > appreciated as well.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ?David Tuggy
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
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> 
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