[gothic-l] Re: Migration theories

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

Hi Bertil,

for the source, try this link 
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/procopius-vandals.html

thanks for the literature reference. I would also be very interested 
to read your article on the Eruli, and indeed anything else that you 
may have published on the subject(in English and/or German). Is 
anything available on the internet? or could you give a full 
reference. Thanks a lot.

Dirk




--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, Bertil Häggman <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
> Dirk,
> 
> One mistake does not make Prokopios totally
> unreliable. Placing the Vandals at the Sea of Azov
> is not so good (could you give the reference
> for the quote?) but describing the Alans as Goths
> is not uncommon, as they were allied.
> 
> The Eruli remigration description of Prokopios
> is detailed and geographically well put together.
> It seems very reliable. I recently published an article
> claiming that Eruli steppe influenced remains in southern
> Scandinvia due to the Eruli. I think I quoted Prokopios on the Eruli
> there. We had a very extensive discussion on the 
> Eruli som time ago, which is available in the Gothic L
> archive. Will send the Prokopios Eruli quote from
> that article.
> 
> Of course there is little archaeological proof of the
> migration of the Goths from Scandinavia. There is,
> as you write, much more evidence in Poland (I am
> referring you to _Schaetze der Ostgoten (SDO)_ (1995), which have
> detailed descriptions of Gothic archaelogical finds
> close to Maslomecz southeast of Lublin.
> 
> On Gothiskandza in Poland, so SDO, is there a connection
> with the Goths:
> 
> "Seit laengerer Zeit verbinden die Archaeologen eindeutig die
> Wielbark-Kultur mit den Goten. Diese Kultur wurde nach dem Graeber-
> feld von Malbrok-Wielbark, Woiw, Elblag, benant, das in den
> dreissiger Jahren von Reinhard Schindler erforscht und groessen-
> teils veroeffentlicht wurde." (p. 26). More later.
> 
> Gothically
> 
> Bertil
> 
> 
> > I agree, it cannot be more than a theory. However, Procopius
wrote 
> > many things which we know are wrong. See the example below:
> > 
> > " ...Now the Vandals, dwelling about the Maeotic Lake [the Sea of 
> > Azov], since they were pressed by hunger, moved to the country of 
the 
> > Germans, who are now called Franks, and the river Rhine, 
associating 
> > with themselves the Alans, a Gothic people..."   (Vandals are not 
> > attested at the Sea of Azov and the Alans were no gothic people,
I 
> > think)
> > 
> > The speaker at the British Museum, based her assessment of the 
Gothic 
> > migration from Gotland/South Sweden on the lack of archaelogical 
> > evidence for this migration and the migration to the Black Sea on 
the 
> > relative abundance of archaeological evidence... However, with
> > regards 
> > to the Eruli, I guess cohesiveness of a small people should also 
not 
> > be underestimated. In fact the speaker herself mentioned examples 
in 
> > history were a migrated people showed remarkable degrees of 
> > cohesiveness over a long period of time, like the Siebenbuerger 
> > Sachsen in Transilvania, who flourished for some 900 years
without 
> > blending into the native population....


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