[gothic-l] Re: message n. 427 on Crimean gothic
Francisc Czobor
czobor at CANTACUZINO.RO
Thu Sep 28 15:34:57 UTC 2000
Dear Patrizia,
it is easier to do it than to explain it, so I send you a copy of the
message no. 427 below.
Francisc
--- In gothic-l at egroups.com, "Patrizia Lendinara" <lendi at u...> wrote:
> how can I have a copy of message n. 427 ? thank you Patrizia
Lendinara
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: David Salo <dsalo at s...>
Post Date: Wed Apr 7, 1999 2:57am
Members Subject: Re: Crimean Goths
Files
Calendar
Polls I sent this to the precursor Gothic-L list last
year, but as that list was
Links having technical trouble at the time I have no
idea if it was ever received
Database or re-transmitted or not. I certainly never got
a
copy back. I hope no
Chat one will object if I send it again.
Promote The eighty-odd words, and the handful of
phrases, collected by Ogier
Ghislain de Busbecq in Constantinople from two
envoys to the Turkish
capital from the Crimea, are generally accepted
as
more or less (usually
less) accurate renditions of a late local
development of the Gothic
language in the area. The meeting between
Busbecq
(a Flemish ambassador
from Habsburg Austria) and the Crimeans took
place
probably in the period
1560-1562, possibly somewhat earlier (but not
before 1556).
A great deal of ink has been spilt regarding
the nature of the
communication between Busbecq and the Crimeans,
their competence in
'Crimean Gothic' (which Busbecq indirectly
impeaches) and Busbecq's own
assessment of their vocabulary. The question is
not generally raised as to
whether their language was actually Gothic.
Busbecq recognized a large number of
'Crimean
Gothic' (KG) forms as
being cognate to Germanic words he knew, either
from his native Flemish or
from High German. Even a cursory inspection of
the material reveals that
many of the forms he recorded look more like
German or Dutch than Gothic.
There are at least two possible reasons for this.
Busbecq himself writes of his Crimean
'Goths'
that "I cannot determine
if these people are Goths or Saxons. If they are
Saxons, I suppose them to
have removed in the time of Charles the Great,
who
dispersed that people
through the various regions of the world [orbis
terrarum]. To which thing
the Transylvanian cities, even today dwelt in by
Saxon inhabitants, bear
witness." Busbecq suspects that they might be a
far-flung branch of these
Transylvanian Saxons.
The other possibility, strongly favored by
most investigators, is that
Busbecq himself introduced the German or Dutch
element, assimilating words
he heard to their nearest cognate in one of those
languages and spelling
them accordingly.
I think there is a third possibility: that
the Crimean Goths, living
in an area repeatedly penetrated by non-Gothic
peoples of all kinds
(Greeks, Huns, Avars, Bulgars, Khazars, Magyars,
Petchenegs, Cumans,
Mongols, Italians, and various kinds of Turks)
had
developed a very mixed
language. Busbecq was chiefly interested in
recording the Germanic
elements (as he perceived them) of this language;
but he would not have
been able to distinguish between native KG
cognates, and any loan-words
from non-KG Germanic languages that might have
been introduced through any
source.
Whatever the truth of the matter, I think
that these words, whether
German or Dutch in origin, or assimilated to them
by Busbecq, are thereby
rendered worthless for reconstructing the
development of KG.
Below follows a list of all the KG words
both
recorded and glossed by
Busbecq, together with possibly related words in
Ulfila's Gothic and
German. Where no Gothic cognate is clearly
evident, the Gothic word with
the same meaning is given in square brackets. A
+
precedes those KG words
which Busbecq noted as not being obvious cognates
to words that he knew. A
- precedes the words (numbers and the article
the,
tho) about whose cognate
status Busbecq made no observations. Asterisks
(*) mark reconstructed
words; words asterisked and in parentheses are
conjectural reconstructions
of the form originally written by Busbecq (the
printed text is evidently
corrupt). In a fourth column the words are
translated into English, square
brackets surrounding those translations which do
not happen to be cognate
to the KG words.
Krim-Gutiska Gutiska Thiudiska
Aggliska
+ada *addi Ei
egg, ME ey
+ael ?hallus [stains]
[stone]
alt altheis alt
old
+ano *hanjo Henne
hen
apel *apals, *aplus? Apfel
apple
-athe ahtau acht
eight
+atochta [ubils]
[bad thing]
+baar barn? baur?
[boy]
bars *bards Bart
beard
boga *buga Bogen
bow
+borrotsch [wilja]
[will]
breen *briuwan braten, brauen?
[roast]
broe *brauth, -d- Brot
bread
bruder brothar Bruder
brother
brunna brunna Brunnen
[well]
+cadariou [gadrauhts] (Gk. kentyrion?)
[soldier]
eriten (*griten) gretan
[cry]
+fers fairhwus?
[man] cf. OE fiiras
fisct (*fisch) fisks Fisch
fish
-furdeithien fidwortaihun vierzig
forty
-fyder fidwor vier
four
-fyuf (*fynf) fimf fuenf
five
+gadeltha
[beautiful thing]
geen [gaggan] gehen
go
goltz (*golth) gulth Gold
gold
handa *handus Hand
hand
-hazer [thusundi]
[thousand]
hoef(*t) haubith, -d- Haupt
head
hus -hus Haus
house
+ich ik ich I
+iel *hail Heil
[health]
+ieltsch *hails heil
whole
+ies is er
[he]
-ita ainata, ita? ein
one
+knauen [goths, -d-]
[good]
kommen qiman kommen
come
+kop *kuppa [stikls, aurkeis] (kopf)
cup
kor(*n) kaurn Korn
corn
lachen hlahjan lachen
laugh
+lista *leit(il)ista
least
+malthata mathlida
[said] OE mathelode
+marzus [*liugains](cf. maritus?)
[marriage]
miera *miurja, *meira?
[ant] (cf. pismire)
+menus (*mems?) mims
[flesh]
mine mena Mond
moon
+mycha mekeis
[sword] OE mece
-nyne niun neun
nine
oegene augona Augen
eyes
plut bloth, -d- Blut
blood
reghen rign Regen
rain
rinck, ringo *hriggs Ring
ring
+rintsch [fairguni, *bairgs]
[mountain]
-sada [hund] cf. Persian 'sad'
[hundred]
salt salt Salz
salt
+schediit [liuhath,-d-]
[light]
schieten *skiutan
schiessen shoot
schlipen slepan schlafen
sleep
+schuos [bruths]
[bride]
schwalth *swults? cf. swiltan
[death]
schwester swistar Schwester
sister
-seis saihs sechs
six
-sevene sibun sieben
seven
silvir silubr Silber
silver
singhen siggwan singen
sing
+stap [gaits]
[goat]
+statz (*stath) staths, -th-
[land]
-stega [twai tigjus]
[twenty]
stein (*stern) stairno Stern
star
stul stols Stuhl
stool
sune sunna, sunno Sonne
sun
tag dags Tag
day
+telich dwals, *dwalisks?
[foolish]
-the sa, *tha der
the
-tho so, *tho die
the
-thiine taihun zehn
ten
-thiinita [ainlif]
[eleven]
-thunetria (*thii-) [*threitaihun]
[thirteen]
-thunetua (*thii-) [twalif]
[twelve]
thurn daur, dauro Tor, Tuer
door
-treithyen threis tigjus dreizig
thirty
-tria thrija drei
three
-tua twa zwei
two
+tzo (*tho) thu du
thou
+vburt (*wurt) wairth
[be, become]
waghen *wagns Wagen
wagon
+warthata waurhta, *waurhtida? wirkte
[did]
+wichtgata [hweits]
[white thing]
wingart weinagards? Weingarten?
[grapevine]
wintch winds Wind
wind
Phrases:
+iel vburt (*wurt) hail wairth heil
werde
[be (it) healthy]
+tzo warthata thu waurhtes du wirktest
[thou didst]
+ies warthata is waurhta er wirkte
[he did]
+kilemschkop [drigk aurki, drigk stikl]
[drink (the) cup]
There are also the first three lines of a song,
possibly very corruptly
transmitted and not glossed:
wara wara ingdolou / scu te gira galtzou /
hæmisclep dorbiza ea
I will now divide the vocabulary into four
groups. The first will be of
those words where I judge the similarity to be
closest between the KG word
and the Gothic cognate; the second, those words
where the similarity seems
to be closest between KG and German; the third,
where the KG words could
correspond to either the Gothic or the German, or
perhaps are not
particularly close to either; and a fourth,
consisting of a number of
'dubious' words, many of which may not be of
Germanic origin at all.
I. Closest cognates in Gothic
KG Gutiska Thiudiska
Aggliska
+ada *addi Ei
egg, ME ey
+ano *hanjo Henne
hen
apel *apals, *aplus? Apfel
apple
athe ahtau acht
eight
+baar barn? baur?
[boy]
boga *buga Bogen
bow
brunna brunna Brunnen
[well]
eriten (*griten) gretan
[cry]
+fers fairhwus?
[man] cf. OE fiiras
-furdeithien fidwortaihun vierzig
forty
-fyder fidwor, fidur- vier
four
goltz (*golth) gulth Gold
gold
hus -hus Haus
house
+ieltsch *hails
heil whole
+ies is er
[he]
+malthata mathlida
[said] OE mathelode
+menus (*mems?) mims
[flesh]
mine mena Mond
moon
+mycha mekeis
[sword] OE mece
salt salt Salz
salt
schieten *skiutan
schiessen
shoot
schlipen slepan
schlafen sleep
schwalth *swults? cf.
swiltan [death]
+statz(*stath) staths, -th-
[land]
-the sa, *tha der
the
-tho so, *tho die
the
-thiine taihun zehn
ten
-treithyen threis tigjus
dreizig thirty
-tria thrija drei
three
-tua twa zwei
two
+tzo (*tho) thu du
thou
+warthata waurhta, *waurhtida?
wirkte [did]
wintch winds Wind
wind
Some of these words, especially mine 'moon'
and
mems (if the
reconstruction is accurate) are especially
convincing in arguing for a
Gothic origin. It is also observable that the
High German developments of
medial -t- > -ss- and -p- > -f-, -pf-, are
absent.
Also lacking is the
development th- > d-; Busbecq shows tz for th in
a
number of places (but
this may be due to printer's error).
Recognized as cognate by OGB: 13
Not recognized: 12
Other: 8
Total number: 33
Non-reconstructed Gothic cognates: 22
II. Closest cognates in German
KG Gutiska Thiudiska
Aggliska
alt altheis alt
old
bruder brothar Bruder
brother
fisct (*fisch) fisks Fisch
fish
geen [gaggan] gehen
go
+ich ik ich
I
kommen qiman kommen
come
lachen hlahjan lachen
laugh
plut bloth, -d- Blut
blood
reghen rign Regen
rain
singhen siggwan singen
sing
stul stols Stuhl
stool
schwester swistar Schwester
sister
tag dags Tag
day
thurn daur, dauro Tor, Tuer
door
waghen *wagns Wagen
wagon, wain
In all of these the resemblance between KG and
German is very close; in
some of them it is very hard to argue for a
Gothic
origin, e.g. kommen.
'Plut' for 'blut' resembles an ultra-High
Germanism. Initial t- for Gothic
d- is less diagnostic, since Busbecq only uses
initial d- in his fragmetary
song and elsewhere may lump t, th, and d together.
Recognized as cognate by OGB: 14
Not recognized: 1
Total number: 15
Non-reconstructed Gothic cognates: 13
III. Closest cognates either or neither Gothic or
German
Krim-Gotisch Gutiska Thiudiska
Aggliska
bars *bards Bart
beard
breen *briuwan
braten, brauen? [roast]
broe *brauth, -d- Brot
bread
fyuf (*fynf) fimf fuenf
five
handa *handus Hand
hand
hoef(*t) haubith, -d-
Haupt head
+iel *hail Heil
[health]
-ita ainata? ita? ein
one
kor(*n) kaurn Korn
corn
+lista *leit(il)ista
[too little] cf. least
miera *miurja, *meira?
[ant] cf. (pis)mire
oegene augona Augen
eyes
-nyne niun neun
nine
rinck, ringo *hriggs Ring
ring
-seis saihs sechs
six
sevene sibun sieben
seven
silvir silubr Silber
silver
stein (*stern) stairno Stern
star
sune sunna, sunno Sonne
sun
-thiinita [ainlif]
[eleven]
-thunetua (*thii-) [twalif]
[twelve]
-thunetria (*thii-) [*threitaihun]
[thirteen]
+vburt (*wurt) wairth werde
[be, become]
wingart weinagards?
Weingarten? [grapevine]
Recognized as cognate by OGB: 15
Not recognized: 3
Other: 6
Total number: 24
Non-reconstructed Gothic cognates: 13
IV. Dubious words
KG Gutiska Thiudiska
Aggliska
+ael ?hallus [stains]
[stone]
+atochta [ubils]
[bad thing]
+borrotsch [wilja]
[will]
+cadariou [gadrauhts] (Gk.
kentyrion?) [soldier]
+gadeltha
[beautiful thing]
-hazer (cf. Persian hazaar) [thusundi]
[thousand]
+knauen [goths, -d-]
[good]
+kop *kuppa [stikls, aurkeis]
(kopf) cup
+marzus [*liugains](cf. maritus?)
[marriage]
+rintsch [fairguni,
*bairgs]
[mountain]
-sada (cf. Persian sad) [hund]
[hundred]
+schediit [liuhath,-d-]
[light]
+schuos [bruths]
[bride]
+stap [gaits]
[goat]
-stega [twai tigjus]
[twenty]
+telich ?dwals, *dwalisks
[foolish]
+wichtgata [hweits]
[white thing]
Recognized as cognate by OGB: 0
Not recognized: 14
Other: 3
Total number: 17
Non-reconstructed Gothic cognates: 1
The difficulties in making an accurate
assessment of KG are pretty big.
It does seem evident that there is a real Gothic
element in KG. We are in
no position, however, to assess the size of this
element relative to other
words in the vocabulary, given the selective
nature of Busbecq's inquiry.
Even in his selection, however, there are a fair
number of words which can
hardly be Germanic. There is also a considerable
group (II) which is
either of German origin, or which have been so
assimilated to German by
Busbecq that it is impossible to deduce any
underlying KG form. Another
large group (III) may also contain a number of
assimilated forms. Any
assessment of the phonetic structure and history
of KG will therefore have
to start with (I), those words which have a more
clearly Gothic origin, and
to a lesser extent (as warranted by the evidence
of (I)) with (III).
Daweid
/\ WISTR LAG WIGS RAIHTS
\/ WRAIQS NU IST
<> David Salo
dsalo at s... <>
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