[gothic-l] Re: Snorri on Reidgotaland

[malmqvist52 at YAHOO.SE]

Hi,

> In both cases your interpretation of "Hreid" as "Nest" makes sense, 
> but are there also similarities to Gothic or other languages?
> 
> Troels

It is "rede" in swedish and this from Våra ord:
fågelbo :fsv. redhe (jfr isl. hreidr, no reir); av dunkelt ursprung  
(of obscure origin.).

However my personal theory is that rede comes from the verb reda 
which means " to prepare, to manage (by yourself)" 

This COULD be derived from ( and please don't kill me for this) 
cognates to  the hebrew word rada wich means I 1. tread (in wine 
press ) 2. rule,govern II scrape out or "take into their own hands"

there is also a hebrew  word tarijd<tared , which means "take control"

This was from Holladay.

According to this  rada apparently means actually  "have dominion"
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?
number=07287&version=nas
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/993006718.html

a synonymic ( for some meanings) hebrew word is diyn 
Could Odin come from "U diyn"= and he governs , and he judges?
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?
number=01777&version=nas
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?
number=01777&version=kjv

Just for completion I also cross post this from Germanic-L:

--- In Germanic-L at y..., dirk at s... wrote:
> Hi Anders,
> 
> 
> I am not sure if that is of any help, but several authors mention 
that 
> there are at least three topoi of Germanic origin. One links 
several 
> Germanic tribes with Scandinavia, another links -somtimes even the 
> same  tribes- with Troy/Greece and a third one links Germanic 
tribes 
> with biblical people. All these three topoi have in common that 
they 
> were used to give a tribe a more glorious past, i.e. to put it on 
an 
> equal with the Romans and Greek. 
> 
> The Troy topos was of course derived from classical literature and 
the 
> biblical topos was naturaly drived from the bible. The Scandza 
topos 
> was derived from the Getica of Jordanes. It was used for the 
> Langobards, the Frisians, sometimes the Saxons and sometimes even 
the 
> Franks (who also used the Troy topos). Hachmann explains that the 
> Scandza topos may constitute genuine Germanic legend with 
historical 
> value for the Goths, but certainly not for any of the other people, 
> were it has the same value as the biblical and Troy topoi.
> 
> The Saxon origin was sometimes linked to Scandza, where it is said 
> that the Saxons are the same as the Danes. One ancient writer even 
> reversed the Saxon migration and claimed that they came from 
Britain 
> and migrated to the Hadeln region of North Germany.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Dirk
> 
Thanks Dirk, it helped a bit

One objection though. I don't think you can treat e.g. the modern 
examples of pseudo-research that is clearly based on religious 
beliefs, " the word of God" and so on as a real topi. These people 
should know better and therefore I don't consider their works as very 
reliable.

The same thing, of course, applies to older and ancient historians 
and other sources, in general and the bible in particular. I, however 
think that it's possible to try to sort out passages that are used to 
promote a certain religion. I also think this is important to do this 
scholarly and systematically, because i believe there are kernels of 
historical thruths in both the Edda and in the Old Testament from the 
Book of Judges and on.

On the classical topi I could just leave it at quoting( translating 
from swedish) Snorri (or someone else)? himself from the  Ole Wormius 
the life medic of danish king Kristian IV transcript of the prologue 
of the Edda in Åke Ohlmark's translation of the Edda, Uddevalla 1964 
(its quite long so, I don't have time to translate the whole of it 
now):  
----------
...So it is told, that when Roma was completely built, then the 
romans applied their customs and laws as close as possible to what 
common  among ther forefathers the trojumen. And so much force 
followed this people for many ages after, that when the roman chief 
Pompeius was ravaging in the east lands, then Odin fled out of Asia 
to here to the north in the world and then gave himself and his folk 
their name, so that Priamus was said to have been called Odin and his 
queen Frigg. From this also the kingdom was named, and Frigia  was 
the place called where the stronghold stood.  And whether Odin 
claimed this to give him greater honour or the names once were the 
same but had been changed with the confusion of tounges, so has , 
however, many wise men held this for a truth, and it ocurred for long 
ages after that each one who was a great chief took these old as 
example...
When Odin chose stronghold town for himself where it now is called 
Sigtuna, then that stronghold was named after his own name . But when 
he took the kingdom, he called himself Njord, and that is why it is 
said in old wisdom books that the first Svea king was called Njord, 
which only means that it was Odin himself who there had been the 
highest...)
-----------

The prologue ends here in the Åke Ohlmark translation. I can come 
back to the other parts of it later. Now I have to leave for 
Riksgränsen.

Best wishes 
Anders


Best wishes 

Anders



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