[gothic-l] Re: Reidgotaland

[Francisc Czobor]

Hi Keth,

I personally am not very convinced that (H)Reidgoth = Greutung
There are two reasons:
1. The phonetic difficulties of hreid = greut
There is not only the problem of h~g (to a Gothic G corresponds 
generally a G in the other Germanic languages, including Norse), but 
also ei is not the same as eu.
2. In the Edda appears also the term "Gryting", in connection with the 
Goths, and in my opinion this "Gryting" is the exact Norse equivalent 
of "Greutung".

I have only a German translation of the Edda, by Felix Genzmer ("Die 
Edda - Götterdichtung, Spruchweisheiten und Heldengesänge der 
Germanen", Eugen Diederichs Verlag, München, 1981, 1997). The word 
"Gryting" I found in Hlöðskviða, the German Title being "Das 
Hunnenschlachtlied" = "The Song of the battle of the Huns". There the 
Goths led by Angantyr are fighting against the Huns led by Angantyr's 
halfbrother, Hlöd (both are Heidrek's sons). One of Angantyr's men is 
old Gizur, the Gryting warrior.

BTW, here I found also the geographic terms quoted by Bertil.
In the introduction to this Hlöðskviða, the translator (Genzmer) says 
(this translation from German in English is made by me, being 
obviously imperfect):
"The persons of this very old song are not attested in historical 
sources; however, Heidrek, Angantyr, Hlöd and Sifka do appear also in 
the Anglo-Saxon poem Widsid; there we hear also of our Ormar 
(Wyrmhere) that he together with Ulfhar (Wulfhere) defended the old 
inherited land with sharp swords in the forest of Vistula against the 
Huns (Aetla's men). A Nordic fragment says furthermore that Heidrek 
was killed at the Harwada mountains, that is the Carpathians. Herefrom 
we can suppose the historical basis of our song: after Ermanaric's 
great empire, that reached from the Baltic to the Black Sea, collapsed 
under the Hunic attack, and the Visigoths were pushed south- and 
westwards, while the Ostrogoths came under Hunic control, north of 
Carpathians in the Vistula region persisted a smaller independant 
Gothic realm; a Hunic attack from the south, thus probably through the 
Carpathian mountain passes or westwards by these mountains, was 
repelled on the "Dunheide" in the Dyngja valley (probably the plain on 
the inferior course of the Dunajetz river)."
That is what Genzmer is saying. In this Hlöðskviða appear also other 
geographic terms, that remain unexplained by Genzmer: Arheim (where 
the Goths are living; in other place Arheim is the place where Gizur 
the Gryting warrior came from), Myrkwid (between the Hunic and the 
Gothic lands), the Jassar mountains (near Dyngja and Dunheide). 
Myrkwid and Jassar mountains were quoted also by Bertil. I am very 
curious what these placenames could really mean.

Francisc 





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