[gothic-l] Gothic Identity, was: Heyerdahl searching for Odin

[dirk at SMRA.CO.UK]

> 
> Anything is possible.
> But this has nothing to do with ancient Goths.
> Unless, of course, you are in the "Goths originated from Sweden"
> camp. As am I.
> 
> 
> =====
> äî ñâèäàíüÿ.
> Nikolai
> ^^O^^


Hi Nikolai,

my understanding is that the question of 'opposing camps' in this 
matter does no longer arise in modern historical research. Historians 
seem to agree that there have been Gothic tribes on the continent 
(mentioned from 1st C. AD) and in Scandinavia (mentioned from 5th C. 
AD). In all likelihood these groups were in contact at some stage. 
However, their material cultures are so different that this contact 
was likely not very intensive (See: Hachmann, 'Die Goten und 
Skandinavien', or more recently Mazkiewicz et. al.). 

In fact, 'Gothicism' was likely not an ethnic definition at this 
early stage at all, but rather a  cultic/religious one. Thus, the term 
Gothic could be transfered easily to different peoples including 
non-Germans (in linguistic terms) as well. Therefore, saying that 'The 
Goths' came from this or that place is tantamount to saying that the 
Catholics came from Rome or the Lutherans came from Wittengerg. What 
is important, is that for the transmission of such a cultic identities 
you don't need a migration of people. This view solves the problem 
with the different material cultures, and it led people like R. 
Wenskus to come up with the concept of the 'traditional core', to 
which most authorative scholars like Wolfram seem to adhere. 

Thus, the early Goths may have formed an entity similar to the Suevi 
and Vandilii-Lugian cultic groups. The Vandilii (Vandals)- Lugian 
groups incorporated tribes like the Harii, Helvecones, Manimi, Helsii, 
Narhavales and later also the names Silingi and Asdingi appear in this 
group. Both the Gothic and the Vandilii-Lugian groups most likely 
contained even Celtic parts as well as Germanic parts (see Wolfram 
'History of the Goths').

The biggest of such cultic groups may have been the Suevi, who 
included the Langobards at the Elbe and streched to the Marcomanni and 
Quadi in Moravia. The diverse parts of these larger groups were often 
subject of change and some parts regrouped to form tribes that adopted 
the name of their former cultic group as the 'common denominator' of 
the consitutent parts. Thus, we get the later Vandals, which are 
different, but related, to the early Vandili/Lugians and the later 
Suevi, which are also different but related to the early Suevi.

With the continental Goths/Gothones the development was probably 
similar, i.e. from a loose cultic group to a tighter more 'ethnically' 
based entity. This also implies that we cannot simply link 6th century 
Goths in Italy with 1st century Gothones in Pomerania and regard them 
as the logical development of 'a' people. What all this means is that 
the question of Goths originating in one certain place, be it 
Scandinavia or Pomerania, is simply obsolete. 

cheers,
Dirk




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