[gothic-l] Re: "Eruli", "Goths", "Danes" and wherefrom the runes

[Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk@smra.co.uk>]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Troels Brandt <trbrandt at p...>"
<trbrandt at p...> wrote:
> Hi Dirk
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Dirk Faltin <dirk at s...>"
> <dirk at s...> wrote:
>
> >>Those Heruls who went to Italy after their defeat
> >> in 509AD, were likely Arian Christians. They also
> >> must have included the highest ranking members of
> >> the Herulic royal clan, because otherwise they
> >> would not have been received by Theoderic.
>
> You could argue for the opposite conclusion as well. Why should he
> give himself all that trouble - he needed strong warriors.



Hi Troels,

I just provided the commonly accepted interpretation. Apparently,
Theoderic would not have granted an audience to those Heruls, had
they not included men of high/royal status.





>
> ..............
> > The
> > integration of Heruls into the Langobards can be deducted from
the
> > Historia Langobadorum, which reports that the Langobardic king
took
> > the royal insignia of the Herulic king. This act likely meant
that
> he
> > also took the overlordship of the followers of Rodolph, the last
> > independent Herulic king.
>
> No - just that they were defeated by him and that he took
possession
> of their land and maybe 3 remaining Heruls.
>


Not really. You have to analyse the whole of the subsequent
Langobardic history, to understand that it was common practice to
integrated the bulk of the survivors of a defeated enemy into  the
own ranks, especially and explicitly among the Langobards. The
wording in the sources (about royal insigia etc.), plus the
subsequent events show that this is what has happened also after the
defeat of the Heruls. See, for example, W. Pohl 'Die
Voelkerwanderung', 2002, for a full analysis of these events.
However, if you have evidence to support your view that Wacho assumed
the royal Herulian insignia only to claim overlordship over 3
remaining Heruls, I would be interested to know what this is;-)




>
> > Also, interation of defeated enimies is a
> > directly attested custom for the Langobards and will no doubt
have
> > taken place in 509AD. Wacho's marriage to Silinga, the daughter
of
> > Rodolph was likely instigated in order to facilitate the
> integration
> > and garner support among Herulic factions among the Langobards.
>
> Normally these marriages were used for alliances - not for their
own
> subjects. Are you sure she was a daughter of Roduulf and not of
> another Herulian king? What does the source tell us?


I think one source calls her simply daughter of the Herulic king, but
also mentiones that the Heruls had no king after Rodolph. Another
source, I think calls her daughter of Rodolph, but I am not certain.

cheers,
Dirk





You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/