[gothic-l] Ethnogenesis-Two peoples??

[Oskar Andersson]

Hi,

> Dear all,
> anyone who talks of one Gothic ethnogenesis, and moreover, of its 
> analysis by  research into DNA, has not understood what the 
> concept of ethnogenesis developed by Wenskus (and enlarged and 
> deepened by Wolfram and Pohl) means. Ethnogenesis is a political 
> process forming new peoples out of remnants of older peoples, 
> giving them a definite historic beginning (and sometimes also a 
> historic end to other peoples). It is possible to talk of an 
> ethnogenesis of the Gutones or Gothones, of the Tervingi, of the 
> Greuthungi, the Ostrogoths, the Visigoths, the Crimean Goths and 
> the Gauts, possibly also about an initial cultic community of 
> different tribes and peoples (like Ingemar Nordgren does),  but not 
> of a single gothic ethnogenesis continuing for a millenium. The idea 
> of a biological continuity behind that proposed single ethnogenesis 
> is one obsolete in historical research. And it does not get better if 
> some old and remote books not recognized by the international 
> community of historians and archeologists are put against the 
> mainstream of professional research in the field. But Dirk and 
> Oskar have already said everything that is necessary in this 
> respect. There is no end to any kind of scientific debate and 
> development. But to get further on the road, one has to start from 
> the actual state of the art and accept that and not to go back to old 
> and obsolete or abstruse theories.
> Kind regards
>                     Andreas Schwarcz  
> 
> Ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
> Institut für österreichische Geschichtsforschung
> Universität Wien
> Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
> A-1010 Wien
> Österreich
> Tel.0043/1/42-77/272-16
> Fax 0043/142-77/92-72

Thanks for the further enlightening on the matter of ethnogenesis, Andreas!
Just as you stated we must take into consideration different ethnogeneses, thus 
the main objections raised here about the use of Visi/Ostro terms in parts 
of Gothic history where they certainly do not belong.
DNA research could possibly shed some light on that old question on a possible 
Scandinavian origin of some of the components of the Weichsel Goths, but to 
what extent such research could be done properly I do not know. The Italian 
geneticist/linguist Cavalli-Sforza (who studied under the famous British mathematican/
geneticist Ronald A. Fisher) has done some DNA research on migratory tribes of 
earlier history than the ones we are discussing here, but I see no objection not to be able 
to use his techniques in matters such as this. Another example of DNA analysis of this 
kind is the one on Anglo-Saxon settlers in England, although I don't know too much 
on this particular research myself.

Best,
Oskar












------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/wWMplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/