[gothic-l] Re: Goths, Eruli in the East

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "einarbirg" <einarbirg at y...> wrote:
> --- In gothic-l at y..., "faltin2001" <dirk at s...> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Einar,
> > 
> > thanks for posting this again. I have nothing against Barthi's 
> > theories about East Scandinavian influence on Iceland and this 
> > question is not even remotely relevant for this list. But I still 
> > find a theory arguing that a part of the first settlers in 
Iceland 
> > were Heruls extremely weird and not believable no matter how many 
> > people you can cite who thing the opposite. 
> > 
> > cheers,
> > Dirk
> > 
> >   ******Einar.    HÆ 
Dirk.                                         
> 
>   POST WHAT AGAIN?????????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> It is obvious you do not read my posts. Nothing or almost nothing 
in 
> this letter I have posted before. It is very obvious you do not 
read 
> my posts. 


Hi Einar,

believe me, I did read the whole post, but thought that much of it 
was familiar from your posting on the same matter on the Germanic-L 
and I really assumed that you reposted some of it here, which I 
thought was a good idea.





You do not want to read about Barði´s  theories even if 
> they are related to the Heruli questions being discussed but feel 
> confident enough to come with all kinds of comments about the 
subject.


That is partly true. I am not really interested in a theory proposing 
that Heruls moved to Iceland. It is too far-fetched in my view.





> Is there any explanation for that you comment on my letter without 
> having read it.????


As I said, I read your letter and all I said is that I don't find the 
theory of Heruls in Iceland convincing at all. The main reason being 
that Heruls seized to exist in about the mid-6th century anywhere.





> 
> It is obvious when you say; no matter how many 
people.........       
> that you (with deepest respect for you) can not face that you could 
> be wrong.


I got the impression that you tried to list as many people as 
possible to vouch for the credibility of this author to support the 
theory. My reply is that no matter who good this author is otherwise, 
if he proposes that Heruls moved to Icleand he missed a few 
fundamental facts or interpolates more that the sources permitt.




> This theory of mine is reinforced by the fact that you comment om 
my 
> letter without reading 
it.                                            
> 

Even if I had done this, it would not reinforce your or this author's 
theory. Firstly, my opinion on it is fairly insignificant for any 
theory being valid or not and secondly, a theory does not gain in 
weight by the lack of criticism.

Perhaps of interest in this context is the interpretation of the 
Eruli, by Walter Pohl in 'Gepiden und Gentes an der mittleren Donau 
nach Zerfall des Attilareiches'. (pp 277/78)

Pohl argues that the Eruli should be identified with the spread of 
the south-Moravian/lower Austrian settlement region after the fall of 
the Hunnic empire. The archeological finds there, according to Pohl, 
are marked by Skull deformations, mirrors as grave goods and a higher 
share of mongoloide ethnic traits. Thus, the Eruli seemed to have 
adopted not only the lifestyle but also the attributes of their 
former masters the Huns. 

Pohl stated that 'the unification of the most different warrior 
groups under the Eruli kingship and the expoitation of local Suevic 
and provincial Roman peasants secured the existence of the Eruli 
kingdom into the 6th century'. He sees the Eruli as a ruling elite of 
a mixed polulation of local Suebi and hunnic-alanic remainders and 
other East Germanic groups. In Procopius' report, Pohl identifies the 
Eruli economy and psychology as one of a group of 'highly specialised 
thieves', whose sole purpose in life had become war. 

>From this interpretation, I get the impression that the Eruli as such 
were not a 'viable' people, that could move somewhere as 'pioneers' 
tilling the soil and building a new culture and society. I think that 
there 'psychology of thieves and warriors' would stand against this. 
Also, Pohl's interpretation sees the Heruli only as a ruling elite of 
a majority population of other Germanic groups as well as Huns, Alans 
and Roman provincials, indicating that they themselves were rather 
small in numbers.

Based on this interpretation by Walter Pohl, I would say that if a 
group of Eruli went to Scandinavia, it was a fairly small group of 
warriors and adventurers, not a tribe or people, who, after an odysee 
of starvation and percecution may have sought employment as 
mercenaries by Scandinavian warlords.

If you are interested in archaeology questions concerning the Heruls, 
there is a discussion on the European Archaeology-L going on at the 
moment.

cheers,
Dirk













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