[gothic-l] Re: Greutung, Therving

[Francisc Czobor]

Hello, Vladimir,

it was already (some 2 years ago, I think) a discussion of the 
greutung/terving etymology on this list, starting from a question of 
mine, similar to yours.
I will try to present shortly the conclusions of that discusssion:
"Greutung" means "dwellers of the stony plains", being derived from 
the Proto-Germanic root *greut- "gravel" (from this Germanic root are 
derived, for instance, OE greot > ME grete > Eng. grit, and the 
German word Griess; the Germanic root is assumed to be derived from 
the IE base *ghre:u- "to rub hard over, crumble"). In Wulfilan 
Gothic, the word Greutung would be probably *Griutuggs or *Griutiggs. 
In the Old Icelandic Eddas it is attested as "gryting" (if I remember 
correctly).
On the other hand, "Terving" means "forest dwellers", being derived 
from the Germanic *terw-/*trew- "tree, wood" (of IE origin). In 
Wulfilan Gothic, this word would be probably *Tairwiggs (or 
*Triwiggs ?). 
Roughly speaking, the Greutungs were the Eastern Goths, and the 
Tervings the Western Goths (but later, the Ostrogothi included also 
Western/Terving and other elements, whereas the Visigothi included 
also Eastern/Greutung elements). The current explanation of these 
denominations is that, when still located in Eastern Europe, before 
the invasion of the Huns, the Greutungs lived in the steppes of 
today's Ukraine (?), whereas the Tervings settled the more afforested 
Dacia.
Regarding Reidgotland, it is not clear (at least for me) if it is 
refering to a legendary or a geographic site, and in the later case, 
if it is connected to the East-Germanic Goths or to Gotland or to 
Götaland of Sweden.
Speaking about the ethnonym "Rus", most sources agree on the fact 
that it was originally refering to a Swedish Viking clan (whence the 
name of Sweden in the Balto-Finnic languages: Finnish "Ruotsi", 
Estonian "Rootsi"). This is explainable in the context that the 
founders of the first Russian state were Swedish Vikings ("Variag"), 
and the rulers of the first Russian dinasty had North-Germanic names: 
Hröríkr (Rurik), Ingvar (Igor), Helge (Oleg), Helga (Olga), Valdemar 
(Vladimir) etc. But, for more or less obvious reasons, many Russians 
do not agree with this explanation, and are seeking for other 
etymologies of the word "Rus" (I have read many years ago about a 
hypothesis that the Russians are of ... Etrusc origin, and the 
word "Rus" is ultimately derived from "Et-rusc", or something like 
this; the authors of the hypothesis were Russians).

With best regards,
Francisc


--- In gothic-l at y..., åÇÏÒÏ× ÷ÌÁÄÉÍÉÒ <vegorov at i...> wrote:
> Hi!
> (Probably a more suitable greeting would be 'Hail' but I'm not sure 
yet in my Gothic.)
> 
> Having fortunately stumbled across your site, I thought that just 
here I could find someone who would kindly clarify a few questions of 
my interest because, as I hope, these questions may appear in fact of 
our mutual (maybe common?) interests.
> 
> I'm not a linguist and even not historian though comparative 
linguistics, history of languages and, as a consequence, ancient 
history are my hobbies. Now I plunged into the problem of the origin 
of the ethnonym 'Rus'. As you probably know, the problem is still not 
solved and remains among most thrilling historical riddles 
(especially for us, Russians).
> 
> I have my own nontrivial conjectures concerning this topic, and 
those conjectures "decisively" direct me at the ancient Goths. 
However, I'd like to make clearer some hazy points prior to insist on 
my conclusions. These points are:
> 
> 1) Where is the etycon 'greutung' originated from, what is its 
correct original spelling (e.g. 'greutung' or 'greuthung'), and to 
which tribes (flocks) it is applicable? 
> All the same for 'therving'.
> 
> 2) Almost the same regarding 'Reidgotland'. What could it mean? 
What is its correct spelling? (A version that I have accasionally 
come across is 'Hraid-Gotaland' transliterated thus from a runic 
stone of the IX century.) Which way should it sound in the Gothic 
language of the IV century (perhaps rather the Gothic dialect of the 
ancient Germanic language)?
> 
> Being a novice, I can't address my questions personally. But I hope 
somebody of GOTHIC-L's haunters would voluntarily sacrifice 
themselves to help me.
> 
> Thank you in advance.
> 
> With best regards,
> Vladimir Egorov
> (Moscow, Russia)
> 
> e-mail: vegorov at i...


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