[gothic-l] Re: Turkish Runes/Etruscan Runes and Skandza-merchants

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "konrad_oddsson" <konrad_oddsson at y...> wrote:
> Greetings my fellow students!
> 
> >   Another argument against a Turkish origin is the fact that one 
> > scholar trys to point out that the ending of the elder futhark 
> > (moving backwards) spells out the name of O.d.in(g).  The problem 
> > here is the fact that the name Odhinn did not have that form in 
> the elder period, his name would have been rendered >Wodanaz, the 
> former being from the later "younger" period.
> 
> Yes, I agree with you the form Óðinn is not really possible for the 
> period when the elder futhark was in use. 
> 
> Given the very close phonological relationship between old Gothic 
> and its younger Scandinavian descendants, 




The East Germanic language of Gothic has no younger Scandinavian 
descendants. Have a look at the O. Dahl's book 'The Origin of the 
Scandinavian languages'. Dahl shows that Gothic is not closer to any 
Scandinavian language than it is to all other Germanic languages. 






I suspect that the older 
> Gothic form of the name Óðinn would be pronounced Wóðins in the 
> nominative singular, but written with a "d" in the spelling of the 
> silver bible. Compare also old Gothic "Dags" with the parallel 
> reconstructed primitive Germanic form "Dagaz". Norse "óðr" is also 
> cognate with old Gothic "Wóþs", suggesting a close relationship in 
> other forms from the same root. Any comments or suggestions? 
> 
> 
> >   Myself, I lean toward an Etruscan / (H)erulian connection to 
the 
> > origin of the runic form, not the concepts the runes represent.
> > Froedhisk ulfr i skogi,
> > Odhvaknir
> 
> I am as yet undecided in these matters. There are certainly 
parallel 
> forms in a number of alphabets. Given that the "viking" age Goths 


What are 'viking age' Goths in Scandinavia. Are you talking about 
north Germanic Gauts? These are completely different people!




in 
> Scandinavia attributed the origin of the runes to Óðinn/Wóðins, I 
> think it highly likely that their migrant cousins in the south did 
> likewise. 


There is a recent discussion with one of the leading experts on 
Gothic history over on the Germanic list. From this you can learn 
that the Gauts had no migrant cousins in form of East Germanic Goths 
in the south. Also, a casual reading of some of the standard works on 
Gothic history may help you to get a clearer view on the difference 
between North Germanic Gauts and East Germanic Goths. (e.g. P. 
Heather, H. Wolfram, W. Pohl etc. )




Nevertheless, religion and alphabetic history are two 
> different things. Given the distribution and period of the extant 
> inscriptions in the older form of the futhark, however, it seems 
> highly likely that some migrating Scandinavian group/groups had 
> something to do with the alphabet´s adoption. The fact that runic 
> inscriptions later became a phenomenon almost exclusively peculiar 
> to Scandinavia proper also suggests that the older alphabet was 
> somehow closely connected to one or more Scandinavian groups abroad.
> The alphabet could also have originated in Scandinavia. 



The earliest runic inscriptions appear in southern Denmark and 
northern Germany. 




Such an 
> origination would, however, suggest that some group/groups from 
> abroad travelled to Scandinavia for trade purposes. Given close 
ties 
> between Scandinavians and their descendants abroad

such traders 
> might well have been every bit as Gothic as the relatives back home.
> What are your thoughts in these matters, my fellow students?




My thought is that you are in dire need of some reading on Gothic 
history, dated post 1970. Perhaps a few essays on 
Scandinavian 'Gothicsism' would also help. 

Dirk






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