[gothic-l] Re: Review _Odin in Azov_

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at y..., "Bertil Haggman" <mvk575b at t...> wrote:
>
> Thor Heyerdahl - Per Lilliestroem, Jakten pa Odin -
> Pa sporet av var fortid, Oslo, Norway, J.M. Stenersens Forlag, 2001.
> 320 pages.
> _____________________________________________
>
> First a few words on the preparation for this excellet book,
> which is a good buy for all who are interested in migration
> and the Goths (and read Scandinavian).
>
> In 1998 the Arni Magnusson Institute (via the President
> of Iceland, Olafur Ragnar Grimson) in Reykjavik invited
> the authors to a seminar on the Icelandic sagas and geography.
>
> This did encourage them to start the quest to the southeast.
> Later they were joined by Asov archaelogist Sergey Loukiashko,
> Russian Professor Vladimir Jakovitch and Director Anatoli Gorbenko.
>
> In a substantial chapter (pp. 228-236) Dr. Heyerdahl and Per
> Lilliestroem present a wealth of information on the migration of
> the Goths, Eruli and Gepidi to the Black Sea area.



The Gepids or Gepidae never migrated to the Black Sea. From the
Vistula they moved to the Carpathian regions and the Theiss river.









>
> An interesting piece of the chain is the battle of Illerup in South
Denmark. Here 775
> lanceheads and spearheads were found, as well as around 350 shield
> bosses and more than 100 swords, date second half of the second
> century AD. (see further C.Fabech, "Booty Sacrifices
> in Southern Scandinavia: A Ressassment" in _Sacred and Profane_
> Oxford 1991).
>
> Per Lilliestroem: The remarkable thing with Illerup is that there
are
> no literary reflections, only archaelogical. Chronologically it
fits, however,
> well with the migration of the Eruli from Scandinavia.




There is no convincincing evidence that the Eruli ever came from
Scandinavia. Procopius stated that a group of Eastern Eruli moved
to ' the farthest corner of the World - Thule', but Procopius knew
nothing about them actually coming from there despite of his interest
in the ancient history of the Eruli. All we know is that there was an
eastern group of Eruli at the Black Sea and later in southern Moravia
and northern Pannonia, and a western group of Eruli at the Rhine. The
western Eruli are occationally mentioned together with Alamanni,
Saxons and Warnians. The Eastern Eruli were defeated by the
Langobards in about 508AD, parts of them were integrated into the
Langobards, others went to Italy, where they were received by
Theoderic. The remainders wandered around for a while, suffering
hunger and defeat. Eventually most of them were settled in Illyria as
attested by Marcellinus Comes (for the year 512AD) and Procopius.
Only Procopius knew of a group that decided to split from the latter
group before accepting settlement on Roman soil and which he said
travelled to 'Thule, the farthest corner of the world'.




> The Eruli was
> a Gothic people.




This is what Procopius said, but it should not be over-interpreted.
The Eruli might have been Gothicised to a certain degree over time,
but they are mentioned as a separate group and maintained a seprate
identity even during the Hunnic domination of Goths and Eruli. In
other words the Eruli were not Goths. Note, that Procopius also said
that the Vandals were a Gothic people from the Sea of Azov, which is
both equally wrong. The Vandals were no Goths and never lived at the
Maeotis.






And they headed directly for the Black Sea area
> around Panticapaion at the Kerch Strait.



Ukrainian archaeologists have found no indication that the Heruls
settled north of the Maeotis in 250AD, as far as I know.





The Gauts/Goths
> could well be a religious brotherhood.



Since when are East Germanic Goths/Gutones also called Gauts? What is
your evidence that they 'could well' have been a 'religious
brotherhood'? Sounds kind of sinister:) Have a look at Wolfram's
latests book 'Die Goten und Ihre Geschichte', Beck Verlag 2001.

Dirk








------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/wWMplB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/