[gothic-l] Re: Carpathians and Croatians

[Francisc Czobor]

Hi, Vladimir,

Thank you very much for your appreciation.

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, åÇÏÒÏ× ÷ÌÁÄÉÍÉÒ <vegorov at i...> wrote:
> Hi Francisc!
>  
> Except for some questionable notes, e.g. ethnicity 
> of the Bastarnae and Peucini (the latter were a branch 
> of the former?), which probably had the Celtic origin 
> rather than German one and, accordingly, scarcely spoke 
> an East German language, your basic conjectures look 
> very attractive. I like your etymology of the Croats 
> from the Gothic *harbada. 
> 

Most sources that I have read (including such authorities like Herwig 
Wolfram in "Die Germanen") state that the Bastarnae were an East 
Germanic tribe, although I don't know what is the support for such an 
assertion. I have also read that in fact it is not clear whether the 
Bastarnae were Celtic or Germanic. Wolfram considers a mixed 
character of the Bastarnae, interpreting their name as "the 
bastards", in opposition to the Skirians - the "sheer" (Got. skeirs), 
i.e. "pure Germanic".
The Peucini were indeed a branch of the Bastarnae, who lived 
(according to Ptolemy) in the Danube Delta. Their name seems to be 
derivated from an island in the Danube Delta, called Peuce (although 
I have also read that Peuce was in fact Leuke, the ancient name of 
the Ostrov Zmeiny in the Black Sea).
Regarding the etymology of "Hrvat", I have read that it is of unknown 
origin. The similarity with "harbada" (pronounced like [harvada]) 
arose suddenly in my head, but it could be only a mere coincidence. 
Anyway, I like it too.

> 
> Moreover, I believe that the East Goths having been 
> dislodged westward by the Huns involved some Slavic 
> tribes from the Carpathian Mountains into their long 
> drift to Apennines. The Gothic migration might have 
> separated the South Slavic tribes (conceivably 
> the 'Antes') and initiate the further distinction 
> between the Croats and Serbs. Note that both peoples 
> speak the same language up to nowadays. But the Slavic 
> tribes, which had migrated with the East Goths, entered 
> the Roman influence area, accepted the Roman Catholicism 
> and became Croats while other South Slavic tribes, 
> which had followed the West Goths, remained in 
> the Byzantine influence area, joined the Orthodox Church 
> and became Serbs.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-
microsoft-com:office:office" />
> 
>  
> Vladimir
>  

Very interesting your theory about the Slavic migrations triggered by 
the Goths. As far as I have read, a major role in the movement of 
Slavic tribes played the Avars, but it is possible that the Goths 
also played a role, since the Slavic migration begun before the 
arrival of the Avars.
I don't understand why you state that the South Slavic tribes who 
followed the West Goths joined the Orthodox Church, since the West 
Goths had nothing to do with Orthodoxism (they were Arian, and in 
Spain became Catholics). As far as I know, the only Goths who joined 
the Orthodox Church were the Crimean Goths (but the Gothi Minores, 
who settled south of Danube with Wulfila, although initially Arian, 
must have become Orthodox, parallel with their assimilation by the 
Slavic population).
Regarding the origin of South Slavs, I have read in a Romanian 
history book that they were rather "Sclavini" than "Antes", but there 
was no argument given for this assertion.

With best regards,
Francisc


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