[gothic-l] Re: International

Tue Aug 17 10:34:39 UTC 2004

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" <gadrauhts at h...> wrote:
> I've tried to translate the most international song ever to gothic, 
> but this far only the refrain. I would like to hear what you think 
> about it. If the grammar sucks, or if it too unlike the original 
etc.
> 
> Here's the refrain of The International (L'Internationale):
> 
> Weig aftumist and-weiham,
> Ga-qimiþ þaírh ga-deþ.
> Sa Internatsjonals,
> lisiþ þo mana-seþ.

Fredrik gahlaiba, hails!

Good idea.  The syntax of your Gothic Internationale looks excellent 
to me.  But might I suggest a couple of word-changes, sow some 
doubts, and generally muddy the waters...

ANDWEIHAN appears just twice in the Gothic Bible, as far as I know, 
which makes it hard to make any definite pronouncements about usage, 
but both times it seems to mean 'to oppose [something/someone]' 
or 'fight against' or just 'be opposed towards [a person]'.  (Once is 
abstract: the idea of a law opposing a law; the other is Isaac being 
opposed to, or taking a dislike to, Esau).  I'm not sure if you could 
use it with "battle" as the direct object with the sense 'face the 
last battle'.  I wonder if there are parallels in OE, ON or OHG?
If I remember right, "fight the good fight" is: HAIFSTEI THO GODON 
HAIFST (1Tm 6,12), so we could have: haifstjam tho aftumiston 
haifst 'let us fight the last fight' - with a word order of your 
choice.  Aftumisto weig weihan 'fight the final fight' should work.

Another possibility is ANDSTANDAN +dative.  Which I have down 
as 'withstand, oppose, gainsay'.  But again, the examples are all of 
opposing a person, or opposing someone's will, or 
opposing/withstanding evil, rather than "facing" adversity, as such.

Then there's ANDWAIHANDS +genitive 'opposed to', just one occurance, 
which may or may not be related to andweihan.  Or 
ANDWAIRTHIS 'opposite to, facing'.  Or FAURA ANDWAIRTHJA this 
spedistins weigis, etc. 'in the face of the final battle'.  But do 
any of these have the metaphorical sense of facing danger, etc.?  I 
don't know, but we could check...

THAIRH GADETH.  I'm not quite sure what you had in mind here.  
Literally "Through deed"?  "By our actions"??

LISAN is always used for 'gather' in the sense of 'collect, harvest, 
gather in', rather than 'unite'.  But who knows, maybe it had 
extended senses which just weren't recorded.  GALISAN can mean 
either 'collect/harvest' or reflexively SIK GALISAN 'congregate, come 
together, meet'.  The GA- probably helps give it a sense 
of "together".  Other possibilities, with the more specific 
meaning 'join': gawidan, gagatilon, (ga)gahaftjan.

____________________________________________
> 
> I've also thought about the very famous quot of the communist 
> manifesto by Karl Marx, which is some thing like 'workers of all 
> countries, unite!' in english, I think. I have two propositions for 
a 
> translation. Please tell me which one you think is better than the 
> other or if both of em sucks.
> 
> OK, here they are:
> 
> 1) Arbáidjarjos þize allane lande, ga-qimiþ!
> 2) Waúrstwans faírhwáus, lisiþ izwis!
> 
> 
> Thank you for your oppinion.

For "worker's of the world unite", I'd go for a mixture of your two 
suggestions, e.g.:
Fairhwaus waurstwans gaqimith!
Waurstwans fairhwaus gaqimith!
...gagaggith izwis!
...galisith izwis!

(Wow, just read that aloud: Gothic is great!)  All of which mean 
literally "come together".  Or you could use a phrase that means 
literally "join' together (with each other)":
Fairhwaus waurstwans gahaftnith (sis misso)!
...gahafteith sik (sis misso)!
etc.

Probably the simplest way of saying it, with the least confusable 
meaning: FAIRHWAUS WAURSTWANS GAHAFTNITH!  Literally: "be 
joined/united".
___________________________________________

Finally, here's my go at a Gothic "The Internationale".  I consulted 
as many of the various language versions here as I could understand: 
http://angelfire.com/pq/svechka

Usstandith allans huhraus bandjans!
Usstandith uswaurpos thiude!
So unraihteins skal suns gaandjan:
atist auk airtha batizei.

Afwaurpanos sind bandjos fairnjos,
gasatiths aftra hlains jah dal.
Gasniwam weis us faur bi stairnons.
Ni waiht, weis habam wairthan all.

Tho nunu spediston  haifst haifstjam,
naht andstandandans.
Thata Gathiudaliuth, gahlaibans,
gawidith alamans.

Arise all ye prisoners of hunger!  Arise ye outcasts of the nations!  
Injustice shall soon end: for a better earth is near.
Cast off are the old (out-moded) chains; hill and dale (i.e. the 
world) made anew (re-established).  Let us hasten on out to the 
stars.  [Though] nothing, we shall be all.
So, let us fight the final fight, withstanding the night.  The 
Internationale (song of peoples + collective prefix), comrades, 
unites all humankind.

(Oops, I went a bit Tolkienish there with the "hill and dale", but 
what else to rhyme with ALL?  The use of a singular verb with two 
objects can be paralleled in Old English: think of it as "hill has 
been re-established, and also dale" - or as cheating to cut down on 
syllables...)

Llama Nom

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