[gothic-l] Re: Scandinavian Inscriptions - East/North/West Germanic

[llama_nom]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson at y...> 
wrote:

> 
>   The 
> > change z > R (palatal voiced alveolar) doesn't show up in runic 
> spelling, so that might make it difficult to distinguish between 
the 
> ancestors of North and East Gmc dialects.
> 
> This is the classic dilemma of whether to write R or z. z always 
> becomes R and R is always from z, at least in north germanic. What 
> should we write? I just write z because its lower case. More then 
> likely, z - R cannot be dated. However, R could mutate preceeding 
> vowels, some of which are shown in inscriptions. There is evidence 
> of this in Old Norse and Old English as well. 
> 
>   And when did z > r in 
> > West Germanic?
> 
> 400+ for sure, but how much later I'm not sure. We could look it 
up. 

I knew it caused mutation in ON, but hadn't heard of that effect in 
OE.  Do you know any examples?  According to Campbell's 'Old English 
Grammar', if I understand this right, the change happened AFTER the 
fronting of a > æ, which apparently occured independently in Friesian 
and English.  Two examples he gives (which don't seem to have 
mutation) are: ærn 'house' < *rænn < *razn (cf. Goth. razn), and hærn 
< *hrænn < *hrazn 'wave'.  With metathesis in both cases.


> 
> > Something I've always wondered is, how much evidence actually 
> exists for the traditional list of the "East Germanic" tribes: 
> Vandals, Sueves, Gepids, Herulians, Skirians, Rugians, Burgundians, 
> etc.  Are there specific Gothic-like features discernable in names, 
> loan words, legal terms, or whatever - or is this list made largely 
> on the basis of assumed geagraphical origin/habitation?

> 
> This is outside of my sphere ;) However, the Rugians would appear 
to 
> be from Rogaland in Norway. Bornholm is also an island off the 
south 
> of Sweden. It's called borgundarhólmr in Old Norse. While this 
alone 
> does not prove anything, the names look very suspicious. How many 
of 
> the limited germanic groups used these names for themselves?
> 

Yes, Borgundarhólmr:Burgundians like Gotland:Goths, and Vendel(Sweden)
+Vendsyssel(Jutland):Vandals.  The names match etymologically, but 
the tribes first appear in history in the region of modern day 
Poland.  Peter Heather, in 'The Goths', downplays the Gotland 
connection, for archeological reasons, but it seems there must have 
been some link, given all these Scandinatian names, even if only a 
ruling dynasty.  The Rugian's have also been associated with the 
island of Ruegen, haven't they?

One other possibility might by the Suevian personal names with Requis-
 = Goth. riqis 'peace'.  I'm not sure if this has cognates outside 
Gothic, but as a neuter a-stem ending in -is, it is probably an old 
consonant stem, like OE æg (pl. ægru).  The -s- stays in oblique 
forms (unlike hatis), but voicing of -s- is often lost in Gothic due 
to analogy.  Except that if Gmc z was still z in NWG, at this stage, 
this doesn't really work as a diagnostic feature!

> 
> > So where does ô fit into all this?, as on the Gallehus horn: 
> TAWIDO.
> 
> 1st person sg. past indicative: tawidô
> 
> I'll post the Gallehus Horn to Theudiskon for our grammar exercise.

Thanks!

Llama Nom




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