[gothic-l] Re: du usfilhan ana gastim

Thu Nov 18 11:34:50 UTC 2004

Hi Sigi,

Exactly like your Gothic example of J 11,18 is Old English -- Wæs 
seó stów hwæthwugu on healfre mile fram ðære ceastre wealle "that 
place was about half a mile from the city wall".

Similarly, OE _on_ can also form part of placenames, like Norse 
_a'_.  The nearest MnE equivalent is the locative "at" (at a certain 
place, at a distance of three miles, etc.).

OE _on_ is also used for "during" a period of time: on þrím dagum 
hyt eft getimbraþ "in (over the course of) three days he will 
rebuild it" (=Go. bi þrins dagans).  Go. sibun sinþam ana dag "seven 
times in one day" -- but note the difference in case.

OE has _on_ for the thing sworn on/by in oaths, while Go. has bi 
+dat. (biswara thuk bi guda).  But OE on secgan "bring a charge 
against" seems like Go. weitwodjan ana.

_on_ is a very popular preposition in OE, with a much broader range 
of uses than MnE, including adverbial idioms and a lot of examples 
where we would now say "in/into" or "at", cf. Go. ana auþidai "in 
the desert" (x3), ana auþida "into the desert" (x1).  As in the 
Swedish examples you give, OE _on_ is often used for the object of 
an emotion.  But Go. faginon varies, between in +dat., in +gen., 
though also _ana_, e.g. 2Cor 7,13 aþþan ana gaþrafsteinai unsarai 
filaus mais faginodedum ana fahedai Teitaus "however to our comfort 
we rejoiced much more at the joy of Titus".  (I suggested 2Cor 7,7 
in a recent post as an example of "among", but I think I got that 
wrong.  It's more likely used there to indicate the source of 
comfort: gaþrafstiþs was ana izwis "he was comforted in you" =Gk. 
ef'.  But elsewhere in +dat. is used with gaþrafstjan = Gk. en, King 
James Bible "by").

Some unambiguous OE examples of _on_ = "among":

on Juda ealdrum "AMONG the princes of Judah"

eart gebletsud on wifum "thou art blessed AMONG women" (=Go. þiuþido 
þu in qinom)

But Gothic and Old English differ when it come to entering into a 
state of being among.

sum gadraus in þaurnuns -- Go.
sume feollon on þornas -- OE
"some fell among thorns"

OE & Go. have similar constructions for spitting and striking, OE: 
hi spætton on hyne "they spat on him", hie me spætton on mine 
onsyne "they spat on my face", on þone andwlitan men slogun "the 
face was stuck" (all acc. as in Go.).

In the Dutch _op zo'n vijftien mijlen_, is that _'n_ short for 
_een_, emphasising the vagueness maybe, (or _aan_, emphasising the 
location)?

Getting back to DU USFILHAN ANA GASTIM at last, I see that Bosworth 
& Toller have a meaning for OE _on_: marking end or purpose: ic 
wylle gán on fiscaþ "I want to go fishing"; on fultum "to help".  I 
wonder if that could be relevant?  (Although fiscaþ & fultum are 
both acc. here, and _ana gastim_ maybe isn't quite the same thing.)

> Seems to me there was in Gothic a separate sense 
of "ana", "statically
> located at/dynamically moving to be located at" -- which isn't all 
too
> much different from its general meaning "(on its way to be) 
located on
> the top of some object".

Probably two separate senses, as shown by the change of case, 
whatever theoretical similarities we can see.

Dynamic, dative, neutral, L 19,36: ufstrawidedun wastjom seinaim ana 
wiga "they strewed their clothes on the path".  Dynamic, accusative, 
positive & negative?, Mt. 5,45: unte sunnon seina urranneiþ ana 
ubilans jah godans, jah rigneiþ ana garaihtans jah ana 
inwindans "for he for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on 
the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."  Am I 
right in thinking we're yet to find an example of ANA +dat. for 
casting something at someone (horizontally) in an unpleasant sense?  
On the other hand, dat. alone is used with many verbs of destruction 
and harm.  Still, it's only speculation that the foreigners are 
getting something unpleasant by the field -- it may be more to do 
with the priests' own scruples and taboo rules, which they know the 
foreigners won't mind about.

Llama Nom

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Sigi Vandewinkel" 
<sigivandewinkel at y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi all, 
> 
> In Dutch, we would also say "spuwen op iemand" lit. "spit on 
someone",
> "throwing stones at someone" would be translated just like that:
> stenen gooien naar iemand" (naar = at). However, in my dialect, 
which
> has had quite some German influence, we would say: "stein guje op
> eine", "throw stones on someone". The "op" there is probably from
> analogy with expressions such as being angry/enraged/jealous/ "op"
> someone -- which are also unpleasant experiences. Come to think of 
it:
> Swedish adjectives expressing negative emotions toward someone also
> need "på" (=on): att vara arg/sur/elak/svartsjuk på någon"
> (to be
> angry/upset/jealous *on* someone". 
> 
> And with reference to "on eastenglum", I recall from Mitchell's Old
> English syntax that Old English "in" and "on" formed one 
preposition
> "on" well into the Middle English period; but I can't recall any
> reason. Perhaps it was contexts like "usfilhan ana gastim" that 
coaxed
> people into linking up "in" and "on". 
> 
> In Gothic, there is this example where "ana" is used to locate a
> village; I feel it is similar to the ones about spitting and 
stoning. 
> 
> wasuh þan Beþania nehva Iairusaulwmi[a]m, swaswe ana spaurdim
> fimftaihunim (John 11:18). 
> Bethany then was near Jerusalem, such on fifteen miles. (transl?)
> 
> In Dutch, there would be a similar construction there: "op zo'n
> vijftien mijlen": lit. "on such fifteen miles"; "at about fifteen
> miles", which is what the Gothic phrase seems to be indicating.  
Note
> that "spaurdim fimftaihunim" is a dative case, used in a static
> context. The examples about throwing stones and spitting are 
similar,
> the main difference being they involved movements, dynamic 
contexts,
> and, therefore an accusative. Still there is another difference: 
the
> dynamic examples always involved something unpleasant, whereas the
> "ana spaurdim" example is neutral. 
> 
> Seems to me there was in Gothic a separate sense 
of "ana", "statically
> located at/dynamically moving to be located at" -- which isn't all 
too
> much different from its general meaning "(on its way to be) 
located on
> the top of some object". 
> 
> Sigi

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