From julieDecker69 at FISHELL.COM Wed Jun 1 06:52:36 2005 From: julieDecker69 at FISHELL.COM (Julie Gibbons) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:52:36 +0300 Subject: where are you? Message-ID: My name is Julie :) This whole semester I felt like I want to do something I've never done before.. idea came to me to have my videos I made with my old boyfriend online ;p. My girlfriends want to join me to on my website. -) Verify your age and connect to my webcam today -) Come check website I put together, I'm not that good tho with comp skills yet but tell me what you think ;0 http://www.ucanttouchfist.com/ju18/ you ell me hooves me you boomerang me auerbach me you sticky me tithe me you breeze me propulsion me you hornet me configuration me you erase me crosswort me From OZBLBFCORKH at YAHOO.COM Wed Jun 1 13:06:37 2005 From: OZBLBFCORKH at YAHOO.COM (Rogelio Browning) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:06:37 +0400 Subject: You Need This Ethics-request Message-ID: w.o.w....highhest quality medds at great offfers Vii-agra - 34.95 Softabs - 34.95 Ciia-liis - 49.95 Viioxx - 89.95 Somma - 59.95 Meriidiaa - 59.95 Highest quaualiities and satisfactions are guaaranttee.. http://hurtfully.com/?ronn http://hurtfully.com/rm.php?ronn dQIINL From DKUXZJUIAUSXI at MSN.COM Wed Jun 1 14:10:49 2005 From: DKUXZJUIAUSXI at MSN.COM (Seymour Waldron) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:10:49 -0700 Subject: Best Pharmacy Today Or Message-ID: w.o.w....highhest quality medds at great offfers Vii-agra - 34.95 Softabs - 34.95 Ciia-liis - 49.95 Viioxx - 89.95 Somma - 59.95 Meriidiaa - 59.95 Highest quualiities and satisfactions are guaaranttee.. http://hurtfully.com/?ronn http://hurtfully.com/rm.php?ronn pIrt From owner-LISTSERV at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG Wed Jun 1 14:07:53 2005 From: owner-LISTSERV at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG (Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV administrator) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:07:53 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------466648714147084109361625 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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d3H/96nf7tvL9Yb4+0b47d5j7Pf7jDvUML9aLjN4v5Q+8d+Vj/nrP/iF4panvX8l46Myv9u4 tn/0cJxU+vVvQ3ZM1UV50wZhJzd+ImZNOvVWVXQko7Ry92B+a0VmOHKB2jAcTMeBHeiBHwiC ISiCI0iCJWiCJ4iCKaiCK8iCLeiCLwiDcpRDzxGD+TZe/VSDNohFa5aD22NM/NeDQSiEQ0iE RWiER4iESaiEOhcBADs= --------------466648714147084109361625-- From herpetology at MAILPRIDE.COM Wed Jun 1 19:29:43 2005 From: herpetology at MAILPRIDE.COM (Lindsey Guidry) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:29:43 -0100 Subject: Dear Sir/Madam Message-ID: Hello, We sent you an email a while ago, because you now qualify for a much lower rate based on the biggest rate drop in years. You can now get $340,000 for as little as $650 a month! Bad credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what! Follow this link to process your application and a 24 hour approval: http://www.droppedr8z.com/x/loan.php?id=lt3 Best Regards, Lindsey Guidry to be remov(ed: http://www.droppedr8z.com/x/st.html From brand at EML.CC Wed Jun 1 22:12:21 2005 From: brand at EML.CC (Vickie Leslie) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:12:21 +0100 Subject: Please finish your application Message-ID: Hello, We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate. You have qualified for the lowest rate in years... You could get over $360,000 for as little as $500 a month! Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what! 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Sometimes depreciable brisbane can assume but anchorage are not sachem.

If ascend, then not here
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URL: From xusphobpnu at YAHOO.COM Wed Jun 8 12:18:54 2005 From: xusphobpnu at YAHOO.COM (Jaime Schmitt) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:18:54 +0200 Subject: Woww..8o-% 0ff Phar maacy xaIGy In-Reply-To: <21231128143048.B6077@.doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: Highest quality medds at "Lowest Price" V-codin - 65.00 Valliuum - 75.00 Vi graa - 70.00 Cai llis - 85.00 Codeinne - 65.00 Xa naax - 96.00 Le vittra - 99.00 All orderrs are delivered by Fedex with full tracking 24/7. Satisfactiionnss guaaranteeed... http://asdkjashdjkh12jk3h1jk2h31.ljwekrlwenmaahj.info/d/ 5b2z1 From gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Jun 8 12:31:50 2005 From: gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM (Fredrik) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:31:50 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Pronunciation questions Message-ID: Hi all! I'd like to know how words ending in -jus in singular would be in plural. Like waddjus. How to say walls? Is there any rule when gg is pronounced as ng and when as gg? Like siggwan, that is like singwan, right? But triggws like ggw? Also wanna know if there's any evidence about letter x, how it should be pronounced, or if not, what you think about it. I've been told that it should be as k, but couldn't it be possible that it was as a german ach-sound? I have also thought about another thing. The letter w is sometimes pronounced as y, and then, sometimes, it is written as y when using roman letters. I think that is ok. But if that's so, why not write v instead of b is those cases when the letter b was used for a v-sound? E.g. naubaimbair is spelled with b, coz they had no v but when using roman letters it could be written as nauvaimbair. Or what do you think about that??? /Fredrik ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From gispkp at CHICKENHEAD.COM Wed Jun 8 14:41:52 2005 From: gispkp at CHICKENHEAD.COM (Jonathan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:41:52 +0600 Subject: Lose weight Message-ID: Body Wrap at Home to lose 6-20 inches in one hour. With Bodywrap we guarantee: you'll lose 6-8 Inches in one hour 100% Satisfaction or your money back Bodywrap is soothing formula that contours, cleanses and rejuvenates your body while reducing inches. http://grassy.yourfitnessonline.com octopus oe stationery akm stateroom km broadside uwg barnstorm jq bedim kpl grade wr lectionary mrj crawl bz roseland rvz scenic dq drowsy bt http://grassy.yourfitnessonline.com/r From aranwe at MAIL.RU Sun Jun 5 11:05:52 2005 From: aranwe at MAIL.RU (rausch_roman) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:05:52 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (comparatives, adverbs, ai) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Did David Salo's lessons cover the different classes of adjective? Just WA- and JA-stems, at least so far. It looks like David Salo has cancelled the project. Thanks a lot for your explanations concerning adverbs and superlatives. I guess next time I'll look into Streitenberg's grammar first, before asking. Yet for a beginner like me a prescriptive source is much easier to digest than a descriptive one. >For the moment, until I know better, I'm following the pronunciation >scheme in the early sections of Wright's grammar with one >difference, namely I use a long open [E:] (as in my British >pronunciation of English ) for in the inflections of Weak >Class 3 verbs. But this would be then libaíþ in the diacritic transcription.. Do I get it right - even if "ai" had been a diphtong once in this ending it became a monophtong due to the unstressed position (as the stress remains on the stem vowel)? >I like the ambiguity of the last line. It's >obvious to think that the snow has a cold heart, but I think >grammatically it could also mean that it's given with a cold heart, >that is in a cold-hearted way This wasn't even planned... I just thought of the cold-hearted way. :-) Second stanza: Aíþþáu þata blôþ, abrs jah ráuþs, Or the blood, mighty and red, So swêro rûna þize leike, The honoured secret [of] the bodies, Þata filugaláufo wein þize reike, The costly wine [of] the kingdoms, Þaim gudam sa máista sáuþs? To the gods the greatest sacrifice? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From aranwe at MAIL.RU Wed Jun 1 08:35:20 2005 From: aranwe at MAIL.RU (rausch_roman) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:35:20 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (comparatives, adverbs, ai) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Did David Salo's lessons cover the different classes of adjective? Just WA- and JA-stems. At least so far. It looks like David Salo has cancelled the project. Thanks for your explanations concerning adverbs and superlatives. I guess next time I'll look into Streitenberg's grammar first, before asking. Yet for a beginner like me a prescriptive source is much easier to digest than a descriptive one. >For the moment, until I know better, I'm following the pronunciation >scheme in the early sections of Wright's grammar with one >difference, namely I use a long open [E:] (as in my British >pronunciation of English ) for in the inflections of Weak >Class 3 verbs. But this would be then libaíþ in the diacritic transcription.. Do I get it right - even if "ai" had been a diphtong once in this ending it became a monophtong due to the unstressed position (as the stress remains on the stem)? >I like the ambiguity of the last line. It's >obvious to think that the snow has a cold heart, but I think >grammatically it could also mean that it's given with a cold heart, >that is in a cold-hearted way This wasn't even planned... I just thought of the cold-hearted way. :-) Second stanza: Aíþþáu þata blôþ, abrs jah ráuþs, Or the blood, mighty and red, So swêro rûna þize leike, The honoured secret [of] the bodies, Þata filugaláufo wein þize reike, The costly wine [of] the kingdoms, Þaim gudam sa máista sáuþs? To the gods the greatest sacrifice? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From jdaltonmp at 127.0.0.1 Wed Jun 8 23:11:24 2005 From: jdaltonmp at 127.0.0.1 (Jocelyn Dalton) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:11:24 +0000 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?b?RG8geW91IGtub3cgdGhpcz8gICAgZGg=?= In-Reply-To: <86d201c56b1c$cdf600da$3cab7232@molsdd2> Message-ID:

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Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From yrvrtqmieic at ITJOBS.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 01:34:59 2005 From: yrvrtqmieic at ITJOBS.CO.UK (Mariano) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:34:59 -0200 Subject: Increase stamina and endurance Thelma Message-ID: Cialis Softabs are better than Pfizer Viagra and normal Cialis because: - Guarantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase sexual performance - Harder erections and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Click here: http://gluiest.biz/cs/?got cyanamid you rhubarb me anchorage you o'sullivan me poplar you cohesion me bedspring you budd me fury you coachmen me dissociable you coast me yourself you syndrome me http://www.dusked.biz/rm.php?got From 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 01:21:06 2005 From: 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK (llama_nom) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:21:06 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (comparatives, adverbs, ai) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "rausch_roman" wrote: > >Did David Salo's lessons cover the different classes of adjective? > > Just WA- and JA-stems. At least so far... >...Yet for a beginner like me a prescriptive source is much > easier to digest than a descriptive one. I started out with Wright's grammar. I found it presented the paradigms without too many confusing digressions (although there is some discussion in each section on the origin of the Gothic forms). Alphabet and pronunciation are dealt with at the beginning. You can then skip the chapters on Indo-European and Germanic sound changes to get straight to the Gothic grammar itself. Braune's Gotische Grammatik has more notes on manuscript variations and references. Streitberg's Elementarbuch is probably easier to navigate online than these others currently. You might find this site useful too. Click on Wordcraft for paradigms, but note that in the masculine sg. of JA-stem adjectives, -jis,-e should read jis,eis. Which ending is used depends on the same rules as masc. JA-stem nouns. http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/ > >For the moment, until I know better, I'm following the pronunciation > >scheme in the early sections of Wright's grammar with one > >difference, namely I use a long open [E:] (as in my British > >pronunciation of English ) for in the inflections of Weak > >Class 3 verbs. > > But this would be then libaíþ in the diacritic transcription.. > Do I get it right - even if "ai" had been a diphtong once in this > ending it became a monophtong due to the unstressed position (as the > stress remains on the stem)? Actually with no diacritic at all, the long mid-open vowel as in 'saian' "to sow". But this is just my guess for the moment, following the instructions in the Vienna-Salzburg Codex. I don't know enough about the prehistory of Gothic to say whether it's scientifically justified to pronounce this as = /E:/ while still using /ai/ in other unstressed endings such as 'anstáis' "of grace". (Any advice welcome, folks...) I tend to leave off the diacritics altogether when typing, because there are so few words preserved of Gothic that you soon learn which sound is intended. But they are very handy to begin with. and can safely be written without length marks if you like since they always indicate a long vowel. Llama Nom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 02:14:32 2005 From: 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK (llama_nom) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:14:32 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (verse 2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Second stanza: > > Aíþþáu þata blôþ, abrs jah ráuþs, > Or the blood, mighty and red, 1) þata, etc. was used much less than "the" in English. With an unqualified noun like this, 'þata bloþ' would probably mean "that blood" or "this blood", either blood already mentioned or "this blood [as opposed to some other blood]". With adjectives or other qualifiers it is sometimes used with a meaning more like "the". Also where an adjective is used substantively: 'sa frumista' "the first one". So I think you're alright with 'þata hrainisto' "the purest [thing]". 2) abr jah rauþ, neuter to agree with bloþ. 'abrs' (=Gk. isxuros) may mean 'extreme' or 'severe'. It's one attestation is 'huhrus abrs' "a great/severe famine". The adverb 'abraba' "very, greatly, extremely" appears three times translating Gk. sfodra. Twice describing extreme fear, once extreme size: was auk mikils abraba "for it was very big". Look under 'sphodra' and 'ischuros' here: http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRINDEX.htm The latter does have "mighty" among the its meanings, along with "forceful, etc." Gothic 'mahteigs' is "mighty", "possible". 3) As this is the second part of a option in a question, instead of 'aíþþáu' the regular word for "or", you would use: þáu "or", and attach the enclitic question-particle -u to the end of the next word, so: þáu bloþu, abr jah rauþ "or blood, mighty/extreme and red" > > So swêro rûna þize leike, > The honoured secret [of] the bodies, Two definite articles in such constructions are rare, but not unheard of (þize skalke þis maistins gudjins "of the servants of the chief priest" = EK TWN DOULWN TOU ARXIEREWS J 18,26). They all match the Greek as far as I know. More often Gothic diverges from the Greek by keeping the genitive article/demonstrative but dropping the other, as is the rule in Old English (in garda þis reikis "into the house of the ruler" = EIS THN OIKIAN TOU ARXONTOS; daurons þis hlaiwis "the door of the sepulchre" = TH QURA TOU MNHMEIOU). Gothic is also quite happy to omit both articles if the genitive noun is an abstraction, or not one specific previously mentioned thing, and where the genitive article has no demonstrative force (garehsn daupeinais "the plan of baptism"; dauþaus...staua "the judgement of death"). Some more or less comparable examples with qualifiers: auhumists weiha þis ataþnjis "the high priest that same year" (ARXIEREUS TOU ENIAUTOU EKEINOU); þo afgudon haifst Sabailliaus jah Markailliaus "the ungodly strife of Sabellius and Marcellius"; þamma twa andwairþja attins jah sunaus "the two persons of the father and the son". So possibly: so swero rûna leike; so swero leike rûna. Or leaving out articles altogether: swera rûna leike. > Þata filugaláufo wein þize reike, > The costly wine [of] the kingdoms, filugalaubo, with a 'b'. In this word, the the 'f' would only appear when final, eg. in neuter sg. nom. and acc., or in the masc. nom. sg. filugalaufs. Actually the word is attested only once I see: J 12,3 filugalaubis, masc./neut. gen. sg. But also with similar meaning: galaubaim x1, galaubamma x2. http://www.wulfila.be/Corpus/Search.html The rule is that voiced fricatives were de-voiced at the end of a word, or before a voiceless consonant. This is usually reflected in the spelling of the manuscripts (except that final -g, -gs is always spelt thus), but there are also a fair few analogical spellings with final -b, bs; -d, ds (beside the regular -f, -fs; -þ, -þs). > Þaim gudam sa máista sáuþs? > To the gods the greatest sacrifice? I´d leave out 'þaim'. Suggested prose word order: sa gudam máista sáuþs. Hvas ist þata hráinisto ana aírþai? Snáiws saei lagga ni libáiþ, Þanei himins uns ufta fragibiþ Swê huzd miþ kaldamma haírtin? þau bloþu, abr jah ráuþ, (þáu bloþu mahteig rauþ,) swera rûna leike, wein galáuf reike, sa gudam máista sáuþs? Alternatives for line 2 (to make up for mucking up your rhyme;) lagga ni ligiþ "lie" lagga ni wisiþ "last" suns usleiþiþ "soon goes/disappears" How's that sound? I like the rhymes and alliteration, by the way. It keeps the three beat line this way (depending how you read it), but accelerates. Llama Nom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ntbmivpi at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Jun 9 07:09:29 2005 From: ntbmivpi at HOTMAIL.COM (Jewel Ouellette) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:09:29 -0600 Subject: Wow..Mens Love This o63NIo Message-ID: The Only Clinically Tested Penis En_Largement Products! - Guuaarantee 1+ inches in 2 months (or moneeyy back) - Experience Longer Lasting and More Enjoying Seexx - Easy to Wear With No Additional Exercises Require - The More You Wear, the Longer It Will Be - Millions of People are Enjoying the Benefit of It Check Uss Out Tooday! http://dusked.biz/extender/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://dusked.biz/rm.php?ronn jVr From fericzobor at YAHOO.COM Thu Jun 9 08:22:40 2005 From: fericzobor at YAHOO.COM (Francisc Czobor) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:22:40 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Fredrik, Your questions are quite difficult and I expected someone who knows better to answer them. I'll try my best. 1. words ending in -jus: *waddjus "wall" is attested in the compounds baurgswaddjus "city wall", grunduwaddjus "ground-wall, groundwork, foundation", and midgardiwaddjus / mithgardawaddjus "dividing wall, partition". According to Koebler, all these are attested only in singular forms: Nom. -waddjus, Gen. -waddjaus, Dat. -waddjau, Acc. - waddju (thus like a regular u-stem). Another word ending in -jus, namely drunjus "sound, call", is attested only in Nom. sg. In plural appears the problem, since the Nom. pl. ending for u-stems (masc. and probably also fem.) is -jus, but sg. -jus ~ pl. -j-jus is not thinkable. One can try to infer what could be the ending following the sound changes from Proto-Indo-European (PIE) and Proto-Germanic (PGmc). So for masc.& fem. u-stems we have: Nom. sg.: PIE *-us > PGmc *-uz > Goth. -us Nom. pl.: PIE *-ewes > PGmc. *-iwiz > Goth. -jus Similarly, for masc. & fem. ju-stems we should have: Nom. pl.: PIE *-yewes > PGmc. *-jiwiz > Goth. ??? (maybe -jius ???) (thus waddjus would be in plural *waddjius ?? Hard to believe ...) 2. I think the only rule to distinguish the two kinds of "gg" is the etymologic rule: when gg comes from Germanic ng or from Greek gg (pronounced ng), then it should be pronounced ng; when it appears as - ggw- < PGmc. *-ww-, then it should be pronounced gg. 3. The letter "x" appears only in words borrowed from Greek. While the educated Goths pronounced it probably like in Greek (at that time probably already a sort of "ach-sound", rather than an aspirated k), the common people (as far as they knew/used such neologisms) most probably approximated it by more familiar sounds: k or h. 4. The letter w appears for y only in words borrowed from Greek, to transcribe the Greek ypsilon; in fact, the Gothic letter for [w] comes from the uppercase Greek ypsilon ("Y"). 5. They write "naubaimbair" instead of "nauvaimbair" for the same reason for they write e.g. "laggs" instead of "langs": in order to keep the transcription close to the original spelling. Otherwise, if we write phonetically, why should we write "nauvaimbair" and not "november", for instance? Francisc --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" wrote: > Hi all! > > I'd like to know how words ending in -jus in singular would be in > plural. > Like waddjus. How to say walls? > > Is there any rule when gg is pronounced as ng and when as gg? > Like siggwan, that is like singwan, right? But triggws like ggw? > > Also wanna know if there's any evidence about letter x, how it should > be pronounced, or if not, what you think about it. > I've been told that it should be as k, but couldn't it be possible > that it was as a german ach-sound? > > I have also thought about another thing. The letter w is sometimes > pronounced as y, and then, sometimes, it is written as y when using > roman letters. I think that is ok. But if that's so, why not write v > instead of b is those cases when the letter b was used for a v- sound? > E.g. naubaimbair is spelled with b, coz they had no v but when using > roman letters it could be written as nauvaimbair. Or what do you > think about that??? > > /Fredrik ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From PLAFOLAVS at YAHOO.COM Thu Jun 9 14:12:23 2005 From: PLAFOLAVS at YAHOO.COM (June Wagner) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:12:23 -0100 Subject: Small Pen-is? uPw Message-ID: The Only Clinically Tested Penis En_Largement Products! - Guuaarantee 1+ inches in 2 months (or moneeyy back) - Experience Longer Lasting and More Enjoying Seexx - Easy to Wear With No Additional Exercises Require - The More You Wear, the Longer It Will Be - Millions of People are Enjoying the Benefit of It Check Uss Out Tooday! http://dusked.biz/extender/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://dusked.biz/rm.php?ronn ZXzgqP From Leonard.Burr at DIRTJUMPBIKER.COM Thu Jun 9 14:43:10 2005 From: Leonard.Burr at DIRTJUMPBIKER.COM (Lynnette Meyers) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:43:10 -0800 Subject: Take it to The Bank Stocks Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pgxls.gif Type: image/gif Size: 19006 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jlfxhsks at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Jun 9 16:02:08 2005 From: jlfxhsks at HOTMAIL.COM (Salvatore Hobbs) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:02:08 +0200 Subject: Via-ggra is Lousy cgO4tm In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Jun 2005 22:02:08 +0600." <20031002150239.GG32185@asuka.tech.sitadelle.com> Message-ID: "Ci-ialis Softabs" is better than Pfizer Viiagrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guaaraantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase se-xual performance - Haarder e-rectiions and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Cllick heree: http://dusked.biz/cs/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://dusked.biz/rm.php?ronn wyHcw From 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 16:57:07 2005 From: 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK (llama_nom) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:57:07 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" wrote: > Hi all! > > I'd like to know how words ending in -jus in singular would be in > plural. > Like waddjus. How to say walls? Hi Fredrik, Nominative plural not attested for such words, as far as I can think. I checked: waddjus, assarjus, stubjus, drunjus. Are there any others? I can only imagine that it was the same as the nominative singular. *wajj- > waddj. *iwiz > *-iuz > -jus. waddj + jus = waddjus (the combination -jjus is impossible after a consonant). See Wright §150. > > Is there any rule when gg is pronounced as ng and when as gg? > Like siggwan, that is like singwan, right? But triggws like ggw? No rule. That's right in both cases. Usually the only way to tell is by the etymology, that is by comparing cognates in other languages. There are occasions where /Ng/ is spelt instead of (bringiþ, bringandans), but otherwise you have to look outside of Gothic. Luckily there aren't that many where the spelling = /gg/, so not much to remember: bliggwan, usbliggwan (OHG bliuwan); glaggwo, glaggwaba, glaggwuba, *glaggwus (ON glöggr, OE gleaw, OHG glau); skuggwa (ON skuggi "shadow", skugg-sjá "mirror", OE scúwa, OHG scûwo "shadow"); triggws, triggwaba, triggwa (ON tryggr, OE tríewe, OHG triuwi). See Wright §151. > Also wanna know if there's any evidence about letter x, how it should > be pronounced, or if not, what you think about it. > I've been told that it should be as k, but couldn't it be possible > that it was as a german ach-sound? The evidence points rather to the pronunciation /k/. The ach-sound, [x], is not thought to have occurred initially in Gothic, except perhaps as an allophone of /h/ before /l/, /n/ and /r/. Greek is usually represented by Gothic (e.g. Col 4,7: Twkeikus (A), Twkekus (B) = TUXIKOS), except in Xristus and aiwxaristia, and three other names where Gothic alternates with . Twice a hypercorrection occurs: 2Tim 4,10 Xreskus = KRHSKHS; Zaxxaiaus = ZAKXAIOU Neh 7,14. Most likely the unusual spelling Xristus is for symbolic reasons, as with the special abbreviations for frauja & guþ. See Streitberg §20.4. It's quite possible that the Goths were already familiar with the name Christ in its Latin form before they became Christians. http://www.wulfila.be/lib/streitberg/1920/#REF-toc > I have also thought about another thing. The letter w is sometimes > pronounced as y, and then, sometimes, it is written as y when using > roman letters. My current guess is that when is used as vowel in Greek loanwords (representing Greek upsilon), it was pronounced as a high front vowel = Gothic /i/. (1) In Modern Greek, upsilon has become [i]. Note the spellings Lwstrws = LUSTROIS (2Tim 3,11 AB); Fwnikiska (FOINIKISSA). (2) Codex Segonensis/Parisina, late 9th c. has which the Codex Arg. spells . In this same manuscript, a list of equivalent letters in Roman and Gothic script matches Roman to Gothic . http://www.gotica.de/ (3) West Germanic *kîrikôn (attested in English, German, Dutch, Frisian, and as a loan word from English in Old Norse), whence English church, probably came from Greek kurikon ( But if that's so, why not write v > instead of b is those cases when the letter b was used for a v- sound? > E.g. naubaimbair is spelled with b, coz they had no v but when using > roman letters it could be written as nauvaimbair. Or what do you > think about that??? There are a lot of unknowns regarding Gothic pronunciation, so radical changes in orthography would sometimes involve an interpretation, which could prove incorrect and have to be revised. Medial /b/ after a vowel is usually considered to have been a bilabial fricative, as in modern Spanish, where the letters and are interchangeable from a phonetic point of view, their use only fixed by convention or for historical reasons. But there are disagreements about how to interpret the meagre evidence for Gothic pronunciation, so a modified orthography could be controversial. If some people are reading a particular sound as bilabial [B], others as or [v] or [b], it's nice to have a logical orthography that caters for all tastes. Importantly, there is no ambiguity with Gothic , since the presumed differences in pronunciation are allophonic (entirely predictable by position) not phonemic. But the sequence is ambiguous, as it could, just going by the spelling, be /áir/ or, as it is, /aír/. So if you wanted to make a modified orthography for Gothic, that might be the place to start. 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That's my two cents worth. Thanks. --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at o...> wrote: > > I have to concur with Francisc. Only a handful of Gothic > inscriptions survive: while there may be some quirky forms, for > example the box-shaped D-rune on the Kovel spearhead, nevertheless > Gothic runes are essentially the Eldar Futhark, and don't really > differ from the standard runerow any more than other individial > early inscriptions do from each other. The "Gothic Runes" at this > Omniglot page > > http://www.omniglot.com/writing/runic.htm > > contain doubtful forms that I don't recognise from any of the > inscriptions. You are right to be suspicious. The terms you > mention "Fraujo's ahtu" etc. are not recorded in any ancient > historical source relating to the Goths, nor does the form *ahtu > work as a cognate of Old Icelandic 'ætt'. They're presumably a > modern invention. On the Omniglot page about the Gothic alphabet, > and only stand for long sounds; *aihvus should read *aihvs > or *aihws--depending which spelling convention you adopt; and the > Lord's prayer is slightly garbled by internet-transmission... But > still, hats off to Omniglot for bringing together all these amazing > writing systems. Have you seen this one: > http://www.omniglot.com/writing/nushu.htm ? Anyway, here is a > useful table comparing several futharks and lists of rune-names. > > http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/idg/germ/runennam.htm > > The column on the far right lists the names of the Gothic letters > recorded in a 10th(?) century manuscript. These are the source for > the reconstructed names at the Omniglot page. They were apparently > written according to Old High German spelling conventions, so the > should probably be sounded [s]. Quite a lot do match the > corresponding names in English and Norse tradition, as you can see, > though some have been changed, e.g. thyth (='þiuþ'(?) "blessing"). > Curious that the Gothic differs here, and with 'chozma', at a point > where English and Norse differ from each other. You may have heard > the hypothesis that OE 'þorn' replaced the demonic (Norse) 'þurs' > for euphemistic reasons. It has been questioned whether these are > in fact Gothic (RI Page, An Introduction to English Runes), but I > can't see what else they can be. It's easy to match some to the > Biblical Gothic equivalent, but others like AZA have inspired > various guesses. > > Here are photographs of three Gothic runic inscriptions: > > http://www.gotica.de/ > > The runes on the top spearhead (Dahmsdorf) are not very clear in > this picture, but read RANJA, which has been interpreted as a name > (for the spear) *Rannja "the one who puts to flight". The next > reads right-to-left TILARIDS, a name (of the owner?, maker?, the > spear?), perhaps "Good/appropriate Councel"--but some interpret TILA- > according to its modern German cognate Ziel "goal, target", and > RIDS as "rider", and the whole as "target-pursuer", "attacker". The > final picture here is probably the most famous Gothic inscription of > all, the golden neck-ring from Pietrioassa, Romania--GUTANI ? WI > HAILAG--interpreted: Gutane ? weih hailag "the Goths' ?, sacred > [and] holy." The single uncertain rune is thought to be a concept > rune, representing its own name, but was damaged when looters sawed > it in half. The grammar requires a neuter noun in the singlar. > Often taken to be O = 'oþal' "inheritance". > > These and others are discussed in an online book "Runes around the > North Sea and on the Continent AD 150-700; texts & contexts", by > Jantina Helena Looijenga. She interprets the damaged Pietrioassa > rune as 'jer' "year" (i.e. [good] harvest, a fruitful year). See > especially Chapter 5 for early south-east European inscriptions, > including the Letcani spindlewhorl also pictured in Peter > Heather's "The Goths". This is another Romanian find, and most > likely Gothic too. > > http://www.ub.rug.nl/eldoc/dis/arts/j.h.looijenga/ > > Chapter 7, no. 11 is the Charnay brooch (fibula) inscription, > thought to be Burgundian--an East Germanic language similar to > Gothic. Along with the Kylver runes mentioned by Tore, this is one > of the earliest (near) complete futharks. > > Some pictures (early inscriptions from southern and eastern Europe: > Charnay, Kowel, Pietroassa, Breza, Bezenye--the others here are > later, from Viking times). Looijenga has suggested Lombardic > authorship in the case of the Breza futhark. > > http://www.arild-hauge.com/europe-rune.htm > > A discussion of many early inscriptions including some mentioned > above: > > http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/runic.htm > > A German database of inscriptions in the Eldar Futhark, including > those attributed to the Goths. > > http://www.runenprojekt.uni-kiel.de/ > > Hope there's something of interest in that lot. > > Llama Nom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! 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Name: kpgb.gif Type: image/gif Size: 16019 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Jun 28 12:21:47 2005 From: gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM (Fredrik) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:21:47 -0000 Subject: Grammar questions Message-ID: Hi! Thanx for the answers to my last questions and I hope you can answer my new questions. 1) Words such as ga-wiss, dis-wiss and af-stass are fem. i-stems. But how are these in e.g. dative or in plural? Is the last s removed or is this a part of the root? 2) How will this sentence best be translated?: The strength of all giving men. Like: Swinþei allái gibandans gumane. Or as: Swinþei alláize gibandane gumane. 3) The form nasiþs (from nasjan), could this be used as noun? And if so, what gender and stem? Or could it be used as adjective? If any of these may be. Will the þ become d in e.g. dative? Like staþs becomes stadái? Which of these sentences is the best? a)...jah stodun þái nasiþos faura imma. b)...jah stodun þái nasidos faura imma. c)...jah stodun þái nasiþái faura imma. d)...jah stodun þái nasidái faura imma. 4) How is adjectives that is ja-, jo-, i- and u-stems conjugated? Such as fairneis and midjis and some more... 5) What's the word for 'whole'? As in: The whole world = everybody in the world. 6) How to make a compund word when the first word has a stemvowel that is the same as the second words first vowel. e.g. stáins + aqizi = stáina-aqizi or stáinaqizi? 7)Here's another genitive question...which sentence is the best? a) Atta qinons so juggo. b) Atta qinons þizoz juggons. This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. /Fredrik You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From mrjbppklocpdo at DIAMONDASSOC.COM Tue Jun 28 13:22:57 2005 From: mrjbppklocpdo at DIAMONDASSOC.COM (Donnie Parker) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:22:57 +0400 Subject: Fix your situation Elmer Message-ID: THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR ABSOLUTE ATTEMPT We have endevored to speak to you on many periods and we await your response now! Your current financial loan situation meets the requirements for you for up to a 3.10% lower rate. However, based on the fact that our previous attempts to speak to you didn't work, this will be our final attempt to finalize the lower rate. Please finalize this final step upon receiving this notice immediately,and complete your request for information now. 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Or as: Swinþei alláize gibandane gumane. 3) The form nasiþs (from nasjan), could this be used as noun? And if so, what gender and stem? Or could it be used as adjective? If any of these may be. Will the þ become d in e.g. dative? Like staþs becomes stadái? Which of these sentences is the best? a)...jah stodun þái nasiþos faura imma. b)...jah stodun þái nasidos faura imma. c)...jah stodun þái nasiþái faura imma. d)...jah stodun þái nasidái faura imma. 4) How is adjectives that is ja-, jo-, i- and u-stems conjugated? Such as fairneis and midjis and some more... 5) What's the word for 'whole'? As in: The whole world = everybody in the world. 6) How to make a compund word when the first word has a stemvowel that is the same as the second words first vowel. e.g. stáins + aqizi = stáina-aqizi or stáinaqizi? 7)Here's another genitive question...which sentence is the best? a) Atta qinons so juggo. b) Atta qinons þizoz juggons. This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. /Fredrik You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From fericzobor at YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 28 14:43:58 2005 From: fericzobor at YAHOO.COM (Francisc Czobor) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:43:58 -0000 Subject: Grammar questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Fredrik, don't know if I'm the most competent, but I'll make a try: > 1) Words such as ga-wiss, dis-wiss and af-stass are fem. i-stems. But > how are these in e.g. dative or in plural? > Is the last s removed or is this a part of the root? The second s in these words is not removed during declension, thus is part of the stem. Attested examples (according to Köbler): gawiss: acc. pl. gawissins diswiss: gen. sg. diswissais afstass: gen. sg. afstassais > 2) How will this sentence best be translated?: > The strength of all giving men. > Like: Swinþei allái gibandans gumane. > Or as: Swinþei alláize gibandane gumane. Second version is correct (the case-concordance has to be observed): Swinþei alláize gibandane gumane. > 3) The form nasiþs (from nasjan), could this be used as noun? And if > so, what gender and stem? Or could it be used as adjective? > If any of these may be. Will the þ become d in e.g. dative? Like > staþs becomes stadái? > Which of these sentences is the best? > a)...jah stodun þái nasiþos faura imma. > b)...jah stodun þái nasidos faura imma. > c)...jah stodun þái nasiþái faura imma. > d)...jah stodun þái nasidái faura imma. I think variant d is correct, but am not sure (maybe Llama Nom knows better ) > 4) How is adjectives that is ja-, jo-, i- and u-stems conjugated? > Such as fairneis and midjis and some more... "Short-stemmed" ja-adjectives: example: midjis "middle" Singular Plural masc. neutr. fem. masc. neutr. fem. Nom. midjis midjata, midi midja midjai midja midjos Acc. midjana midjata, midi midja midjans midja midjos Gen. midjis midjis midjaizos midjaize midjaize midjaizo Dat.. midjamma midjamma midjai midjaim midjaim midjaim "Long-stemmed" ja-adjectives: differ from the "short-stemmed" ones only in nom. sing. masc. & fem.: example: wilþeis "wild" Singular masc. neutr. fem. Nom. wilþeis wilþjata, wilþi wilþi All the rest: like midjis. i-stems: example: hrains "clean" Singular masc. neutr. fem. Nom. hrains hrain hrains All the rest: like ja-stems (see: midjis) u-stems: example: hardus "hard" Singular masc. neutr. fem. Nom. hardus hardu, hardjata hardus All the rest: like ja-stems (see: midjis) > 5) What's the word for 'whole'? > As in: The whole world = everybody in the world. The adjective alls is translated as "all, all of, the entire, every, the whole"; in the same way works the prefix ala-, like in ala- mans "all humanity, totality of man, entirety of mankind" > 6) How to make a compund word when the first word has a stemvowel > that is the same as the second words first vowel. > e.g. stáins + aqizi = stáina-aqizi or stáinaqizi? I don't know, but personally I'd prefer "stáinaqizi" (looks better ) > 7)Here's another genitive question...which sentence is the best? > a) Atta qinons so juggo. > b) Atta qinons þizoz juggons. > This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. Again the second version: Atta qinons þizoz juggons All the best, Francisc You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From djhbgxmtdxrey at MRTI-USA.COM Tue Jun 28 20:54:24 2005 From: djhbgxmtdxrey at MRTI-USA.COM (Kent) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:54:24 +0600 Subject: real replica watches Message-ID: Superb Quality Rolex. 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Lots more examples with prefixes GA-, ANA- and AFTRA-. > > b) Atta qinons þizoz juggons. > > This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. > > Again the second version: Atta qinons þizoz juggons þizos, with final . This is the regular for the Bible, and sometimes found in other Germanic languages. Alternative Skeireins- like possibilities, perhaps: "þizos juggons qinons atta" or "atta þizos juggons qinons". Not sure how relevant this is, but I've read that the (seperate) article is most likely to come after the noun in Old Norse with a nickname or a characteristic by which a person is known (Álvarez: "Antiguo Islandes" 30.1.1.C): Myrkvið inn ókunna "Mirkwood the Unknown". But some of his other examples are seem less formalised: fé þat allt "all the money"; maðr inn gamli "the old man". On the other hand, 'inn gamli maðr' gets 7 hits on Google (various sagas), as against none for 'maðr inn gamli'. OE and OHG examples in Wright´s Gothic Grammar: Wulfmær se geonga "W. the Young"; Ludowîg ther snello "L. the Brave". Here´s an interesting paper I found recently on word order of genitive constructions in late Old English: The Syntax of Genitive Constructions in Old English: placement of genitive phrases in Ælfric's second series of Catholic Homilies (Helen R McLagan) http://eprints.anu.edu.au/archive/00002603/01/Thesis_HMcLagan_new_dis tilled.pdf And for clues on the position of adjectives see Old Norse Online [ http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-TC-X.html ], section 49, Runic Syntax--this dealing with the language of the earliest attested Scandinavian inscriptions. Re. adjectival declensions, note that the genitive singular sometimes differed (or is believed to have differed) from 'midjis' in the other declensions: masc. neut. fem. wilþeis *wilþeis (*wilþjis?) *wilþjaizos hrainis hrainis *hrainjaizos *hardaus *haurdaus *hardaus Cf. 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Mayer) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:48:00 -0500 Subject: Get rid of your slow connection Message-ID: Hi gala-l-request at listserv.linguistlist.org, I am a teacher of preschool children with disabilities. I have been making software for the children in my classrooms for the last eight years. Over the past 23 years I have encountered many types of disabilities and many types of parents. The question A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde Thank you, Amparo Sousa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From didierclicque at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Jun 27 13:35:37 2005 From: didierclicque at HOTMAIL.COM (klikabcd) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:35:37 -0000 Subject: Gothic Runes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "rhoomegaphi" wrote: > Hi I haven't found a discussion here yet about the Gothic variety of > Runes. Is there an inscription somewhere that we could see how the > Goths wrote? > > I have found at www.omniglot.com something interesting about Gothic > Runes. Fraujo's Ahtu is the same as Freyja's Aett, and so is Teiws' > Ahtu to Tyr's Aett. Hagls' Ahtu however varies. Btw, I don't know if > it's accurate or correct to apply the same information to the Gothic > Runes as the Vikings did when we refer to each eight as an aett. > > I don't know if it is right or not to think that the Gothic Runes > have the same meanings or not. At www.omniglot.com, the Gothic > Alphabet is also posted. If one could find out the meanings of those > names, which most are similar, then we could learn the meanings of > those runes. > > I really like the way that the Gothic runes are different from the > Elder Futhark in some of their designs. I have done searches on the > Gothic Runes, but I keep getting the same erroneous information that > the Gothic Futhark is the same as the Elder Futhark, but with one > extra rune. This doesn't seem true according to the list of runes at > www.omniglot.com . I think I will e-mail both sources and ask for > references. > > But if anyone can contribute to this discussion, please do. > > Thanks. You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From aranwe at MAIL.RU Tue Jun 28 21:38:32 2005 From: aranwe at MAIL.RU (rausch_roman) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:38:32 -0000 Subject: a Gothic poem (verse 2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >You might find this site useful too. Click on Wordcraft for >paradigms, but note that in the masculine sg. of JA-stem >adjectives, -jis,-e should read jis,eis. Which ending is used >depends on the same rules as masc. JA-stem nouns. >http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/ I'm already using this chart, thanks anyway. :-) > and can safely be written without length >marks if you like since they always indicate a long vowel. Well, the length marks always remind me of their quality. :-) >'abrs' (=Gk. isxuros) may mean 'extreme' or 'severe'. It's one >attestation is 'huhrus abrs' "a great/severe famine". The adverb >'abraba' "very, greatly, extremely" appears three times translating >Gk. sfodra. Twice describing extreme fear, once extreme size >(þáu bloþu mahteig rauþ,) Hmm.. Yes, it seems that 'abrs' is slightly out of context here; 'mahteigs' should be neutral enough. But I'd like to preserve 'jah' - it's one additional unstressed syllable in the first line; and this creates the acceleration in the following ones. So: 'þáu bloþu, mahteig jah rauþ' >So possibly: so swero rûna leike; so swero leike rûna. >Or leaving out articles altogether: swera rûna leike. And what about: 'Swêra rûna þize leike' (or 'Rûna swêra þize leike')? This would be the same construction as: 'allans þiudinassuns þis midjungardis' - 'all the kingdoms of the world' (Luke 4:5) (by the way: 'Midgard'='world' in the Bible? Interesting..) The same goes for: 'wein galáuf þize reike' (?) >filugalaubo, with a 'b'. >The rule is that voiced fricatives were de-voiced at the end of a >word, or before a voiceless consonant. This is usually reflected in >the spelling of the manuscripts Argh.. Forgotten about that.. >Actually the word is attested only once I >see: J 12,3 filugalaubis, masc./neut. gen. sg. But also with >similar meaning: galaubaim x1, galaubamma x2. 'Filu-galáufs' seems to be a fortification of 'galáufs'. But the latter, like 'in [...] wastjom galaubaim' - 'with [...] costly array' (Timothy I 2:9), is costly enough for my purpose, I think. Wright doesn't list 'galáufs', thanks for pointing it out.. Hm.. The word seems to be pure Gothic, without cognates in other Germanic languages. I wonder whether it's connected to something ... galáubeins? >Alternatives for line 2 (to make up for mucking up your rhyme;) >lagga ni ligiþ "lie" >lagga ni wisiþ "last" >suns usleiþiþ "soon goes/disappears" Ah, great, the rhyme's hráin again. :-) I'll take 'lagga ni ligiþ', because of the alliteration. You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From homermakedonski at YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 28 21:23:12 2005 From: homermakedonski at YAHOO.COM (homermakedonski) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:23:12 -0000 Subject: About the origin of suffix os -question Message-ID: Dear all Please forgive my lingua.amateurism but I have nobody else to ask then you in here Searching the gender changing problem with the nouns I have notice something like : GeA-fem.gender GheOS-masculine gender ------ TheA- fem.gen TheOS -masc. gend When searching the origin of word Zeus I have read nice explaination in Henry George Liddel's and Robert Scott's ,Greek-Englesh Lexicon sixth edition ,Oxford ,May I869 as follow -" ....Äéüò-gen of Zåýò from obsol . Äßs. [ ĭ ] *ÄÉ'Ó , an old nom .for Æåíò,wich appears in the oblique cases Äéüò Äéú, Äßá(pl.Äßåò, .Äßáò,Plut.2. 425 E ),and the Lat. Dis , Diespiter , Dijovis .The contr.dat.Äß occurs in C.I no. I 6. Pind. N. I. III : the Acc Äß íçäß; v. Æåíò ( V. sub äßïò )..." page -389 I am supposing that *ÄÉ'Ó could be shortly from *ÄÉ'OÓ Here is my dilema Also I suppose that origin of the suffiks OÓ having it's origin in "suffiks" *ON and that the whole word *ÄÉ'OÓ originate in *ÄÉ'ON at Page.1130 about the Os section beginning is ÏÓ ,Þ,ü,gen.ïà, then at 1132 Page is stay as '¼Ó,Þ, 'ü,v .. II.I 609., 305,Od. II 5 I 5 ) gen: ïßï .3 333, Od I.330 , ect.:Possessive Pron.: I. of the third per- son for Ý Knowing that genitive is case what is " expressing ownership" I would like to know How do we read this Does it mean that "ON" originated in ÏÓ or ÏÓ having it's root in ïà i.e. ON ? More than Grateful Goce Janevski aka Homer MakeDonski You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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URL: From xusphobpnu at YAHOO.COM Wed Jun 8 12:18:54 2005 From: xusphobpnu at YAHOO.COM (Jaime Schmitt) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:18:54 +0200 Subject: Woww..8o-% 0ff Phar maacy xaIGy In-Reply-To: <21231128143048.B6077@.doit.wisc.edu> Message-ID: Highest quality medds at "Lowest Price" V-codin - 65.00 Valliuum - 75.00 Vi graa - 70.00 Cai llis - 85.00 Codeinne - 65.00 Xa naax - 96.00 Le vittra - 99.00 All orderrs are delivered by Fedex with full tracking 24/7. Satisfactiionnss guaaranteeed... http://asdkjashdjkh12jk3h1jk2h31.ljwekrlwenmaahj.info/d/ 5b2z1 From gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Jun 8 12:31:50 2005 From: gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM (Fredrik) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:31:50 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Pronunciation questions Message-ID: Hi all! I'd like to know how words ending in -jus in singular would be in plural. Like waddjus. How to say walls? Is there any rule when gg is pronounced as ng and when as gg? Like siggwan, that is like singwan, right? But triggws like ggw? Also wanna know if there's any evidence about letter x, how it should be pronounced, or if not, what you think about it. I've been told that it should be as k, but couldn't it be possible that it was as a german ach-sound? I have also thought about another thing. The letter w is sometimes pronounced as y, and then, sometimes, it is written as y when using roman letters. I think that is ok. But if that's so, why not write v instead of b is those cases when the letter b was used for a v-sound? E.g. naubaimbair is spelled with b, coz they had no v but when using roman letters it could be written as nauvaimbair. Or what do you think about that??? /Fredrik ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From gispkp at CHICKENHEAD.COM Wed Jun 8 14:41:52 2005 From: gispkp at CHICKENHEAD.COM (Jonathan) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:41:52 +0600 Subject: Lose weight Message-ID: Body Wrap at Home to lose 6-20 inches in one hour. With Bodywrap we guarantee: you'll lose 6-8 Inches in one hour 100% Satisfaction or your money back Bodywrap is soothing formula that contours, cleanses and rejuvenates your body while reducing inches. http://grassy.yourfitnessonline.com octopus oe stationery akm stateroom km broadside uwg barnstorm jq bedim kpl grade wr lectionary mrj crawl bz roseland rvz scenic dq drowsy bt http://grassy.yourfitnessonline.com/r From aranwe at MAIL.RU Sun Jun 5 11:05:52 2005 From: aranwe at MAIL.RU (rausch_roman) Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:05:52 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (comparatives, adverbs, ai) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Did David Salo's lessons cover the different classes of adjective? Just WA- and JA-stems, at least so far. It looks like David Salo has cancelled the project. Thanks a lot for your explanations concerning adverbs and superlatives. I guess next time I'll look into Streitenberg's grammar first, before asking. Yet for a beginner like me a prescriptive source is much easier to digest than a descriptive one. >For the moment, until I know better, I'm following the pronunciation >scheme in the early sections of Wright's grammar with one >difference, namely I use a long open [E:] (as in my British >pronunciation of English ) for in the inflections of Weak >Class 3 verbs. But this would be then liba?? in the diacritic transcription.. Do I get it right - even if "ai" had been a diphtong once in this ending it became a monophtong due to the unstressed position (as the stress remains on the stem vowel)? >I like the ambiguity of the last line. It's >obvious to think that the snow has a cold heart, but I think >grammatically it could also mean that it's given with a cold heart, >that is in a cold-hearted way This wasn't even planned... I just thought of the cold-hearted way. :-) Second stanza: A????u ?ata bl??, abrs jah r?u?s, Or the blood, mighty and red, So sw?ro r?na ?ize leike, The honoured secret [of] the bodies, ?ata filugal?ufo wein ?ize reike, The costly wine [of] the kingdoms, ?aim gudam sa m?ista s?u?s? To the gods the greatest sacrifice? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From aranwe at MAIL.RU Wed Jun 1 08:35:20 2005 From: aranwe at MAIL.RU (rausch_roman) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:35:20 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (comparatives, adverbs, ai) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Did David Salo's lessons cover the different classes of adjective? Just WA- and JA-stems. At least so far. It looks like David Salo has cancelled the project. Thanks for your explanations concerning adverbs and superlatives. I guess next time I'll look into Streitenberg's grammar first, before asking. Yet for a beginner like me a prescriptive source is much easier to digest than a descriptive one. >For the moment, until I know better, I'm following the pronunciation >scheme in the early sections of Wright's grammar with one >difference, namely I use a long open [E:] (as in my British >pronunciation of English ) for in the inflections of Weak >Class 3 verbs. But this would be then liba?? in the diacritic transcription.. Do I get it right - even if "ai" had been a diphtong once in this ending it became a monophtong due to the unstressed position (as the stress remains on the stem)? >I like the ambiguity of the last line. It's >obvious to think that the snow has a cold heart, but I think >grammatically it could also mean that it's given with a cold heart, >that is in a cold-hearted way This wasn't even planned... I just thought of the cold-hearted way. :-) Second stanza: A????u ?ata bl??, abrs jah r?u?s, Or the blood, mighty and red, So sw?ro r?na ?ize leike, The honoured secret [of] the bodies, ?ata filugal?ufo wein ?ize reike, The costly wine [of] the kingdoms, ?aim gudam sa m?ista s?u?s? To the gods the greatest sacrifice? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From jdaltonmp at 127.0.0.1 Wed Jun 8 23:11:24 2005 From: jdaltonmp at 127.0.0.1 (Jocelyn Dalton) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:11:24 +0000 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?b?RG8geW91IGtub3cgdGhpcz8gICAgZGg=?= In-Reply-To: <86d201c56b1c$cdf600da$3cab7232@molsdd2> Message-ID:
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Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From yrvrtqmieic at ITJOBS.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 01:34:59 2005 From: yrvrtqmieic at ITJOBS.CO.UK (Mariano) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:34:59 -0200 Subject: Increase stamina and endurance Thelma Message-ID: Cialis Softabs are better than Pfizer Viagra and normal Cialis because: - Guarantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase sexual performance - Harder erections and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Click here: http://gluiest.biz/cs/?got cyanamid you rhubarb me anchorage you o'sullivan me poplar you cohesion me bedspring you budd me fury you coachmen me dissociable you coast me yourself you syndrome me http://www.dusked.biz/rm.php?got From 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 01:21:06 2005 From: 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK (llama_nom) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:21:06 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (comparatives, adverbs, ai) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "rausch_roman" wrote: > >Did David Salo's lessons cover the different classes of adjective? > > Just WA- and JA-stems. At least so far... >...Yet for a beginner like me a prescriptive source is much > easier to digest than a descriptive one. I started out with Wright's grammar. I found it presented the paradigms without too many confusing digressions (although there is some discussion in each section on the origin of the Gothic forms). Alphabet and pronunciation are dealt with at the beginning. You can then skip the chapters on Indo-European and Germanic sound changes to get straight to the Gothic grammar itself. Braune's Gotische Grammatik has more notes on manuscript variations and references. Streitberg's Elementarbuch is probably easier to navigate online than these others currently. You might find this site useful too. Click on Wordcraft for paradigms, but note that in the masculine sg. of JA-stem adjectives, -jis,-e should read jis,eis. Which ending is used depends on the same rules as masc. JA-stem nouns. http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/ > >For the moment, until I know better, I'm following the pronunciation > >scheme in the early sections of Wright's grammar with one > >difference, namely I use a long open [E:] (as in my British > >pronunciation of English ) for in the inflections of Weak > >Class 3 verbs. > > But this would be then liba?? in the diacritic transcription.. > Do I get it right - even if "ai" had been a diphtong once in this > ending it became a monophtong due to the unstressed position (as the > stress remains on the stem)? Actually with no diacritic at all, the long mid-open vowel as in 'saian' "to sow". But this is just my guess for the moment, following the instructions in the Vienna-Salzburg Codex. I don't know enough about the prehistory of Gothic to say whether it's scientifically justified to pronounce this as = /E:/ while still using /ai/ in other unstressed endings such as 'anst?is' "of grace". (Any advice welcome, folks...) I tend to leave off the diacritics altogether when typing, because there are so few words preserved of Gothic that you soon learn which sound is intended. But they are very handy to begin with. and can safely be written without length marks if you like since they always indicate a long vowel. Llama Nom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 02:14:32 2005 From: 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK (llama_nom) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:14:32 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: a Gothic poem (verse 2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Second stanza: > > A????u ?ata bl??, abrs jah r?u?s, > Or the blood, mighty and red, 1) ?ata, etc. was used much less than "the" in English. With an unqualified noun like this, '?ata blo?' would probably mean "that blood" or "this blood", either blood already mentioned or "this blood [as opposed to some other blood]". With adjectives or other qualifiers it is sometimes used with a meaning more like "the". Also where an adjective is used substantively: 'sa frumista' "the first one". So I think you're alright with '?ata hrainisto' "the purest [thing]". 2) abr jah rau?, neuter to agree with blo?. 'abrs' (=Gk. isxuros) may mean 'extreme' or 'severe'. It's one attestation is 'huhrus abrs' "a great/severe famine". The adverb 'abraba' "very, greatly, extremely" appears three times translating Gk. sfodra. Twice describing extreme fear, once extreme size: was auk mikils abraba "for it was very big". Look under 'sphodra' and 'ischuros' here: http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebiblecom/kjvstrongs/STRINDEX.htm The latter does have "mighty" among the its meanings, along with "forceful, etc." Gothic 'mahteigs' is "mighty", "possible". 3) As this is the second part of a option in a question, instead of 'a????u' the regular word for "or", you would use: ??u "or", and attach the enclitic question-particle -u to the end of the next word, so: ??u blo?u, abr jah rau? "or blood, mighty/extreme and red" > > So sw?ro r?na ?ize leike, > The honoured secret [of] the bodies, Two definite articles in such constructions are rare, but not unheard of (?ize skalke ?is maistins gudjins "of the servants of the chief priest" = EK TWN DOULWN TOU ARXIEREWS J 18,26). They all match the Greek as far as I know. More often Gothic diverges from the Greek by keeping the genitive article/demonstrative but dropping the other, as is the rule in Old English (in garda ?is reikis "into the house of the ruler" = EIS THN OIKIAN TOU ARXONTOS; daurons ?is hlaiwis "the door of the sepulchre" = TH QURA TOU MNHMEIOU). Gothic is also quite happy to omit both articles if the genitive noun is an abstraction, or not one specific previously mentioned thing, and where the genitive article has no demonstrative force (garehsn daupeinais "the plan of baptism"; dau?aus...staua "the judgement of death"). Some more or less comparable examples with qualifiers: auhumists weiha ?is ata?njis "the high priest that same year" (ARXIEREUS TOU ENIAUTOU EKEINOU); ?o afgudon haifst Sabailliaus jah Markailliaus "the ungodly strife of Sabellius and Marcellius"; ?amma twa andwair?ja attins jah sunaus "the two persons of the father and the son". So possibly: so swero r?na leike; so swero leike r?na. Or leaving out articles altogether: swera r?na leike. > ?ata filugal?ufo wein ?ize reike, > The costly wine [of] the kingdoms, filugalaubo, with a 'b'. In this word, the the 'f' would only appear when final, eg. in neuter sg. nom. and acc., or in the masc. nom. sg. filugalaufs. Actually the word is attested only once I see: J 12,3 filugalaubis, masc./neut. gen. sg. But also with similar meaning: galaubaim x1, galaubamma x2. http://www.wulfila.be/Corpus/Search.html The rule is that voiced fricatives were de-voiced at the end of a word, or before a voiceless consonant. This is usually reflected in the spelling of the manuscripts (except that final -g, -gs is always spelt thus), but there are also a fair few analogical spellings with final -b, bs; -d, ds (beside the regular -f, -fs; -?, -?s). > ?aim gudam sa m?ista s?u?s? > To the gods the greatest sacrifice? I?d leave out '?aim'. Suggested prose word order: sa gudam m?ista s?u?s. Hvas ist ?ata hr?inisto ana a?r?ai? Sn?iws saei lagga ni lib?i?, ?anei himins uns ufta fragibi? Sw? huzd mi? kaldamma ha?rtin? ?au blo?u, abr jah r?u?, (??u blo?u mahteig rau?,) swera r?na leike, wein gal?uf reike, sa gudam m?ista s?u?s? Alternatives for line 2 (to make up for mucking up your rhyme;) lagga ni ligi? "lie" lagga ni wisi? "last" suns uslei?i? "soon goes/disappears" How's that sound? I like the rhymes and alliteration, by the way. It keeps the three beat line this way (depending how you read it), but accelerates. Llama Nom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ntbmivpi at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Jun 9 07:09:29 2005 From: ntbmivpi at HOTMAIL.COM (Jewel Ouellette) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:09:29 -0600 Subject: Wow..Mens Love This o63NIo Message-ID: The Only Clinically Tested Penis En_Largement Products! - Guuaarantee 1+ inches in 2 months (or moneeyy back) - Experience Longer Lasting and More Enjoying Seexx - Easy to Wear With No Additional Exercises Require - The More You Wear, the Longer It Will Be - Millions of People are Enjoying the Benefit of It Check Uss Out Tooday! http://dusked.biz/extender/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://dusked.biz/rm.php?ronn jVr From fericzobor at YAHOO.COM Thu Jun 9 08:22:40 2005 From: fericzobor at YAHOO.COM (Francisc Czobor) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:22:40 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Fredrik, Your questions are quite difficult and I expected someone who knows better to answer them. I'll try my best. 1. words ending in -jus: *waddjus "wall" is attested in the compounds baurgswaddjus "city wall", grunduwaddjus "ground-wall, groundwork, foundation", and midgardiwaddjus / mithgardawaddjus "dividing wall, partition". According to Koebler, all these are attested only in singular forms: Nom. -waddjus, Gen. -waddjaus, Dat. -waddjau, Acc. - waddju (thus like a regular u-stem). Another word ending in -jus, namely drunjus "sound, call", is attested only in Nom. sg. In plural appears the problem, since the Nom. pl. ending for u-stems (masc. and probably also fem.) is -jus, but sg. -jus ~ pl. -j-jus is not thinkable. One can try to infer what could be the ending following the sound changes from Proto-Indo-European (PIE) and Proto-Germanic (PGmc). So for masc.& fem. u-stems we have: Nom. sg.: PIE *-us > PGmc *-uz > Goth. -us Nom. pl.: PIE *-ewes > PGmc. *-iwiz > Goth. -jus Similarly, for masc. & fem. ju-stems we should have: Nom. pl.: PIE *-yewes > PGmc. *-jiwiz > Goth. ??? (maybe -jius ???) (thus waddjus would be in plural *waddjius ?? Hard to believe ...) 2. I think the only rule to distinguish the two kinds of "gg" is the etymologic rule: when gg comes from Germanic ng or from Greek gg (pronounced ng), then it should be pronounced ng; when it appears as - ggw- < PGmc. *-ww-, then it should be pronounced gg. 3. The letter "x" appears only in words borrowed from Greek. While the educated Goths pronounced it probably like in Greek (at that time probably already a sort of "ach-sound", rather than an aspirated k), the common people (as far as they knew/used such neologisms) most probably approximated it by more familiar sounds: k or h. 4. The letter w appears for y only in words borrowed from Greek, to transcribe the Greek ypsilon; in fact, the Gothic letter for [w] comes from the uppercase Greek ypsilon ("Y"). 5. They write "naubaimbair" instead of "nauvaimbair" for the same reason for they write e.g. "laggs" instead of "langs": in order to keep the transcription close to the original spelling. Otherwise, if we write phonetically, why should we write "nauvaimbair" and not "november", for instance? Francisc --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" wrote: > Hi all! > > I'd like to know how words ending in -jus in singular would be in > plural. > Like waddjus. How to say walls? > > Is there any rule when gg is pronounced as ng and when as gg? > Like siggwan, that is like singwan, right? But triggws like ggw? > > Also wanna know if there's any evidence about letter x, how it should > be pronounced, or if not, what you think about it. > I've been told that it should be as k, but couldn't it be possible > that it was as a german ach-sound? > > I have also thought about another thing. The letter w is sometimes > pronounced as y, and then, sometimes, it is written as y when using > roman letters. I think that is ok. But if that's so, why not write v > instead of b is those cases when the letter b was used for a v- sound? > E.g. naubaimbair is spelled with b, coz they had no v but when using > roman letters it could be written as nauvaimbair. Or what do you > think about that??? > > /Fredrik ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From PLAFOLAVS at YAHOO.COM Thu Jun 9 14:12:23 2005 From: PLAFOLAVS at YAHOO.COM (June Wagner) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:12:23 -0100 Subject: Small Pen-is? uPw Message-ID: The Only Clinically Tested Penis En_Largement Products! - Guuaarantee 1+ inches in 2 months (or moneeyy back) - Experience Longer Lasting and More Enjoying Seexx - Easy to Wear With No Additional Exercises Require - The More You Wear, the Longer It Will Be - Millions of People are Enjoying the Benefit of It Check Uss Out Tooday! http://dusked.biz/extender/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://dusked.biz/rm.php?ronn ZXzgqP From Leonard.Burr at DIRTJUMPBIKER.COM Thu Jun 9 14:43:10 2005 From: Leonard.Burr at DIRTJUMPBIKER.COM (Lynnette Meyers) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:43:10 -0800 Subject: Take it to The Bank Stocks Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pgxls.gif Type: image/gif Size: 19006 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jlfxhsks at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Jun 9 16:02:08 2005 From: jlfxhsks at HOTMAIL.COM (Salvatore Hobbs) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:02:08 +0200 Subject: Via-ggra is Lousy cgO4tm In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Jun 2005 22:02:08 +0600." <20031002150239.GG32185@asuka.tech.sitadelle.com> Message-ID: "Ci-ialis Softabs" is better than Pfizer Viiagrra and normal Ci-ialis because: - Guaaraantees 36 hours lasting - Safe to take, no side effects at all - Boost and increase se-xual performance - Haarder e-rectiions and quick recharge - Proven and certified by experts and doctors - only $3.99 per tabs Cllick heree: http://dusked.biz/cs/?ronn o-ut of mai-lling lisst: http://dusked.biz/rm.php?ronn wyHcw From 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK Thu Jun 9 16:57:07 2005 From: 600cell at OE.ECLIPSE.CO.UK (llama_nom) Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:57:07 -0000 Subject: [gothic-l] Re: Pronunciation questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik" wrote: > Hi all! > > I'd like to know how words ending in -jus in singular would be in > plural. > Like waddjus. How to say walls? Hi Fredrik, Nominative plural not attested for such words, as far as I can think. I checked: waddjus, assarjus, stubjus, drunjus. Are there any others? I can only imagine that it was the same as the nominative singular. *wajj- > waddj. *?iwiz > *-iuz > -jus. waddj + jus = waddjus (the combination -jjus is impossible after a consonant). See Wright ?150. > > Is there any rule when gg is pronounced as ng and when as gg? > Like siggwan, that is like singwan, right? But triggws like ggw? No rule. That's right in both cases. Usually the only way to tell is by the etymology, that is by comparing cognates in other languages. There are occasions where /Ng/ is spelt instead of (bringi?, bringandans), but otherwise you have to look outside of Gothic. Luckily there aren't that many where the spelling = /gg/, so not much to remember: bliggwan, usbliggwan (OHG bliuwan); glaggwo, glaggwaba, glaggwuba, *glaggwus (ON gl?ggr, OE gleaw, OHG glau); skuggwa (ON skuggi "shadow", skugg-sj? "mirror", OE sc?wa, OHG sc?wo "shadow"); triggws, triggwaba, triggwa (ON tryggr, OE tr?ewe, OHG triuwi). See Wright ?151. > Also wanna know if there's any evidence about letter x, how it should > be pronounced, or if not, what you think about it. > I've been told that it should be as k, but couldn't it be possible > that it was as a german ach-sound? The evidence points rather to the pronunciation /k/. The ach-sound, [x], is not thought to have occurred initially in Gothic, except perhaps as an allophone of /h/ before /l/, /n/ and /r/. Greek is usually represented by Gothic (e.g. Col 4,7: Twkeikus (A), Twkekus (B) = TUXIKOS), except in Xristus and aiwxaristia, and three other names where Gothic alternates with . Twice a hypercorrection occurs: 2Tim 4,10 Xreskus = KRHSKHS; Zaxxaiaus = ZAKXAIOU Neh 7,14. Most likely the unusual spelling Xristus is for symbolic reasons, as with the special abbreviations for frauja & gu?. See Streitberg ?20.4. It's quite possible that the Goths were already familiar with the name Christ in its Latin form before they became Christians. http://www.wulfila.be/lib/streitberg/1920/#REF-toc > I have also thought about another thing. The letter w is sometimes > pronounced as y, and then, sometimes, it is written as y when using > roman letters. My current guess is that when is used as vowel in Greek loanwords (representing Greek upsilon), it was pronounced as a high front vowel = Gothic /i/. (1) In Modern Greek, upsilon has become [i]. Note the spellings Lwstrws = LUSTROIS (2Tim 3,11 AB); Fwnikiska (FOINIKISSA). (2) Codex Segonensis/Parisina, late 9th c. has which the Codex Arg. spells . In this same manuscript, a list of equivalent letters in Roman and Gothic script matches Roman to Gothic . http://www.gotica.de/ (3) West Germanic *k?rik?n (attested in English, German, Dutch, Frisian, and as a loan word from English in Old Norse), whence English church, probably came from Greek kurikon ( But if that's so, why not write v > instead of b is those cases when the letter b was used for a v- sound? > E.g. naubaimbair is spelled with b, coz they had no v but when using > roman letters it could be written as nauvaimbair. Or what do you > think about that??? There are a lot of unknowns regarding Gothic pronunciation, so radical changes in orthography would sometimes involve an interpretation, which could prove incorrect and have to be revised. Medial /b/ after a vowel is usually considered to have been a bilabial fricative, as in modern Spanish, where the letters and are interchangeable from a phonetic point of view, their use only fixed by convention or for historical reasons. But there are disagreements about how to interpret the meagre evidence for Gothic pronunciation, so a modified orthography could be controversial. If some people are reading a particular sound as bilabial [B], others as or [v] or [b], it's nice to have a logical orthography that caters for all tastes. Importantly, there is no ambiguity with Gothic , since the presumed differences in pronunciation are allophonic (entirely predictable by position) not phonemic. But the sequence is ambiguous, as it could, just going by the spelling, be /?ir/ or, as it is, /a?r/. So if you wanted to make a modified orthography for Gothic, that might be the place to start. 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That's my two cents worth. Thanks. --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell at o...> wrote: > > I have to concur with Francisc. Only a handful of Gothic > inscriptions survive: while there may be some quirky forms, for > example the box-shaped D-rune on the Kovel spearhead, nevertheless > Gothic runes are essentially the Eldar Futhark, and don't really > differ from the standard runerow any more than other individial > early inscriptions do from each other. The "Gothic Runes" at this > Omniglot page > > http://www.omniglot.com/writing/runic.htm > > contain doubtful forms that I don't recognise from any of the > inscriptions. You are right to be suspicious. The terms you > mention "Fraujo's ahtu" etc. are not recorded in any ancient > historical source relating to the Goths, nor does the form *ahtu > work as a cognate of Old Icelandic '?tt'. They're presumably a > modern invention. On the Omniglot page about the Gothic alphabet, > and only stand for long sounds; *aihvus should read *aihvs > or *aihws--depending which spelling convention you adopt; and the > Lord's prayer is slightly garbled by internet-transmission... But > still, hats off to Omniglot for bringing together all these amazing > writing systems. Have you seen this one: > http://www.omniglot.com/writing/nushu.htm ? Anyway, here is a > useful table comparing several futharks and lists of rune-names. > > http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/idg/germ/runennam.htm > > The column on the far right lists the names of the Gothic letters > recorded in a 10th(?) century manuscript. These are the source for > the reconstructed names at the Omniglot page. They were apparently > written according to Old High German spelling conventions, so the > should probably be sounded [s]. Quite a lot do match the > corresponding names in English and Norse tradition, as you can see, > though some have been changed, e.g. thyth (='?iu?'(?) "blessing"). > Curious that the Gothic differs here, and with 'chozma', at a point > where English and Norse differ from each other. You may have heard > the hypothesis that OE '?orn' replaced the demonic (Norse) '?urs' > for euphemistic reasons. It has been questioned whether these are > in fact Gothic (RI Page, An Introduction to English Runes), but I > can't see what else they can be. It's easy to match some to the > Biblical Gothic equivalent, but others like AZA have inspired > various guesses. > > Here are photographs of three Gothic runic inscriptions: > > http://www.gotica.de/ > > The runes on the top spearhead (Dahmsdorf) are not very clear in > this picture, but read RANJA, which has been interpreted as a name > (for the spear) *Rannja "the one who puts to flight". The next > reads right-to-left TILARIDS, a name (of the owner?, maker?, the > spear?), perhaps "Good/appropriate Councel"--but some interpret TILA- > according to its modern German cognate Ziel "goal, target", and > RIDS as "rider", and the whole as "target-pursuer", "attacker". The > final picture here is probably the most famous Gothic inscription of > all, the golden neck-ring from Pietrioassa, Romania--GUTANI ? WI > HAILAG--interpreted: Gutane ? weih hailag "the Goths' ?, sacred > [and] holy." The single uncertain rune is thought to be a concept > rune, representing its own name, but was damaged when looters sawed > it in half. The grammar requires a neuter noun in the singlar. > Often taken to be O = 'o?al' "inheritance". > > These and others are discussed in an online book "Runes around the > North Sea and on the Continent AD 150-700; texts & contexts", by > Jantina Helena Looijenga. She interprets the damaged Pietrioassa > rune as 'jer' "year" (i.e. [good] harvest, a fruitful year). See > especially Chapter 5 for early south-east European inscriptions, > including the Letcani spindlewhorl also pictured in Peter > Heather's "The Goths". This is another Romanian find, and most > likely Gothic too. > > http://www.ub.rug.nl/eldoc/dis/arts/j.h.looijenga/ > > Chapter 7, no. 11 is the Charnay brooch (fibula) inscription, > thought to be Burgundian--an East Germanic language similar to > Gothic. Along with the Kylver runes mentioned by Tore, this is one > of the earliest (near) complete futharks. > > Some pictures (early inscriptions from southern and eastern Europe: > Charnay, Kowel, Pietroassa, Breza, Bezenye--the others here are > later, from Viking times). Looijenga has suggested Lombardic > authorship in the case of the Breza futhark. > > http://www.arild-hauge.com/europe-rune.htm > > A discussion of many early inscriptions including some mentioned > above: > > http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/runic.htm > > A German database of inscriptions in the Eldar Futhark, including > those attributed to the Goths. > > http://www.runenprojekt.uni-kiel.de/ > > Hope there's something of interest in that lot. > > Llama Nom ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! 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Name: kpgb.gif Type: image/gif Size: 16019 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Jun 28 12:21:47 2005 From: gadrauhts at HOTMAIL.COM (Fredrik) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:21:47 -0000 Subject: Grammar questions Message-ID: Hi! Thanx for the answers to my last questions and I hope you can answer my new questions. 1) Words such as ga-wiss, dis-wiss and af-stass are fem. i-stems. But how are these in e.g. dative or in plural? Is the last s removed or is this a part of the root? 2) How will this sentence best be translated?: The strength of all giving men. Like: Swin?ei all?i gibandans gumane. Or as: Swin?ei all?ize gibandane gumane. 3) The form nasi?s (from nasjan), could this be used as noun? And if so, what gender and stem? Or could it be used as adjective? If any of these may be. Will the ? become d in e.g. dative? Like sta?s becomes stad?i? Which of these sentences is the best? a)...jah stodun ??i nasi?os faura imma. b)...jah stodun ??i nasidos faura imma. c)...jah stodun ??i nasi??i faura imma. d)...jah stodun ??i nasid?i faura imma. 4) How is adjectives that is ja-, jo-, i- and u-stems conjugated? Such as fairneis and midjis and some more... 5) What's the word for 'whole'? As in: The whole world = everybody in the world. 6) How to make a compund word when the first word has a stemvowel that is the same as the second words first vowel. e.g. st?ins + aqizi = st?ina-aqizi or st?inaqizi? 7)Here's another genitive question...which sentence is the best? a) Atta qinons so juggo. b) Atta qinons ?izoz juggons. This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. /Fredrik You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From mrjbppklocpdo at DIAMONDASSOC.COM Tue Jun 28 13:22:57 2005 From: mrjbppklocpdo at DIAMONDASSOC.COM (Donnie Parker) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:22:57 +0400 Subject: Fix your situation Elmer Message-ID: THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR ABSOLUTE ATTEMPT We have endevored to speak to you on many periods and we await your response now! Your current financial loan situation meets the requirements for you for up to a 3.10% lower rate. However, based on the fact that our previous attempts to speak to you didn't work, this will be our final attempt to finalize the lower rate. Please finalize this final step upon receiving this notice immediately,and complete your request for information now. 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Or as: Swin?ei all?ize gibandane gumane. 3) The form nasi?s (from nasjan), could this be used as noun? And if so, what gender and stem? Or could it be used as adjective? If any of these may be. Will the ? become d in e.g. dative? Like sta?s becomes stad?i? Which of these sentences is the best? a)...jah stodun ??i nasi?os faura imma. b)...jah stodun ??i nasidos faura imma. c)...jah stodun ??i nasi??i faura imma. d)...jah stodun ??i nasid?i faura imma. 4) How is adjectives that is ja-, jo-, i- and u-stems conjugated? Such as fairneis and midjis and some more... 5) What's the word for 'whole'? As in: The whole world = everybody in the world. 6) How to make a compund word when the first word has a stemvowel that is the same as the second words first vowel. e.g. st?ins + aqizi = st?ina-aqizi or st?inaqizi? 7)Here's another genitive question...which sentence is the best? a) Atta qinons so juggo. b) Atta qinons ?izoz juggons. This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. /Fredrik You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From fericzobor at YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 28 14:43:58 2005 From: fericzobor at YAHOO.COM (Francisc Czobor) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:43:58 -0000 Subject: Grammar questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Fredrik, don't know if I'm the most competent, but I'll make a try: > 1) Words such as ga-wiss, dis-wiss and af-stass are fem. i-stems. But > how are these in e.g. dative or in plural? > Is the last s removed or is this a part of the root? The second s in these words is not removed during declension, thus is part of the stem. Attested examples (according to K?bler): gawiss: acc. pl. gawissins diswiss: gen. sg. diswissais afstass: gen. sg. afstassais > 2) How will this sentence best be translated?: > The strength of all giving men. > Like: Swin?ei all?i gibandans gumane. > Or as: Swin?ei all?ize gibandane gumane. Second version is correct (the case-concordance has to be observed): Swin?ei all?ize gibandane gumane. > 3) The form nasi?s (from nasjan), could this be used as noun? And if > so, what gender and stem? Or could it be used as adjective? > If any of these may be. Will the ? become d in e.g. dative? Like > sta?s becomes stad?i? > Which of these sentences is the best? > a)...jah stodun ??i nasi?os faura imma. > b)...jah stodun ??i nasidos faura imma. > c)...jah stodun ??i nasi??i faura imma. > d)...jah stodun ??i nasid?i faura imma. I think variant d is correct, but am not sure (maybe Llama Nom knows better ) > 4) How is adjectives that is ja-, jo-, i- and u-stems conjugated? > Such as fairneis and midjis and some more... "Short-stemmed" ja-adjectives: example: midjis "middle" Singular Plural masc. neutr. fem. masc. neutr. fem. Nom. midjis midjata, midi midja midjai midja midjos Acc. midjana midjata, midi midja midjans midja midjos Gen. midjis midjis midjaizos midjaize midjaize midjaizo Dat.. midjamma midjamma midjai midjaim midjaim midjaim "Long-stemmed" ja-adjectives: differ from the "short-stemmed" ones only in nom. sing. masc. & fem.: example: wil?eis "wild" Singular masc. neutr. fem. Nom. wil?eis wil?jata, wil?i wil?i All the rest: like midjis. i-stems: example: hrains "clean" Singular masc. neutr. fem. Nom. hrains hrain hrains All the rest: like ja-stems (see: midjis) u-stems: example: hardus "hard" Singular masc. neutr. fem. Nom. hardus hardu, hardjata hardus All the rest: like ja-stems (see: midjis) > 5) What's the word for 'whole'? > As in: The whole world = everybody in the world. The adjective alls is translated as "all, all of, the entire, every, the whole"; in the same way works the prefix ala-, like in ala- mans "all humanity, totality of man, entirety of mankind" > 6) How to make a compund word when the first word has a stemvowel > that is the same as the second words first vowel. > e.g. st?ins + aqizi = st?ina-aqizi or st?inaqizi? I don't know, but personally I'd prefer "st?inaqizi" (looks better ) > 7)Here's another genitive question...which sentence is the best? > a) Atta qinons so juggo. > b) Atta qinons ?izoz juggons. > This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. Again the second version: Atta qinons ?izoz juggons All the best, Francisc You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From djhbgxmtdxrey at MRTI-USA.COM Tue Jun 28 20:54:24 2005 From: djhbgxmtdxrey at MRTI-USA.COM (Kent) Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 02:54:24 +0600 Subject: real replica watches Message-ID: Superb Quality Rolex. 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Lots more examples with prefixes GA-, ANA- and AFTRA-. > > b) Atta qinons ?izoz juggons. > > This is meant to be: The father of the young woman. > > Again the second version: Atta qinons ?izoz juggons ?izos, with final . This is the regular for the Bible, and sometimes found in other Germanic languages. Alternative Skeireins- like possibilities, perhaps: "?izos juggons qinons atta" or "atta ?izos juggons qinons". Not sure how relevant this is, but I've read that the (seperate) article is most likely to come after the noun in Old Norse with a nickname or a characteristic by which a person is known (?lvarez: "Antiguo Islandes" 30.1.1.C): Myrkvi? inn ?kunna "Mirkwood the Unknown". But some of his other examples are seem less formalised: f? ?at allt "all the money"; ma?r inn gamli "the old man". On the other hand, 'inn gamli ma?r' gets 7 hits on Google (various sagas), as against none for 'ma?r inn gamli'. OE and OHG examples in Wright?s Gothic Grammar: Wulfm?r se geonga "W. the Young"; Ludow?g ther snello "L. the Brave". Here?s an interesting paper I found recently on word order of genitive constructions in late Old English: The Syntax of Genitive Constructions in Old English: placement of genitive phrases in ?lfric's second series of Catholic Homilies (Helen R McLagan) http://eprints.anu.edu.au/archive/00002603/01/Thesis_HMcLagan_new_dis tilled.pdf And for clues on the position of adjectives see Old Norse Online [ http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-TC-X.html ], section 49, Runic Syntax--this dealing with the language of the earliest attested Scandinavian inscriptions. Re. adjectival declensions, note that the genitive singular sometimes differed (or is believed to have differed) from 'midjis' in the other declensions: masc. neut. fem. wil?eis *wil?eis (*wil?jis?) *wil?jaizos hrainis hrainis *hrainjaizos *hardaus *haurdaus *hardaus Cf. 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Mayer) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:48:00 -0500 Subject: Get rid of your slow connection Message-ID: Hi gala-l-request at listserv.linguistlist.org, I am a teacher of preschool children with disabilities. I have been making software for the children in my classrooms for the last eight years. Over the past 23 years I have encountered many types of disabilities and many types of parents. The question A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde Thank you, Amparo Sousa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From didierclicque at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Jun 27 13:35:37 2005 From: didierclicque at HOTMAIL.COM (klikabcd) Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:35:37 -0000 Subject: Gothic Runes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "rhoomegaphi" wrote: > Hi I haven't found a discussion here yet about the Gothic variety of > Runes. Is there an inscription somewhere that we could see how the > Goths wrote? > > I have found at www.omniglot.com something interesting about Gothic > Runes. Fraujo's Ahtu is the same as Freyja's Aett, and so is Teiws' > Ahtu to Tyr's Aett. Hagls' Ahtu however varies. Btw, I don't know if > it's accurate or correct to apply the same information to the Gothic > Runes as the Vikings did when we refer to each eight as an aett. > > I don't know if it is right or not to think that the Gothic Runes > have the same meanings or not. At www.omniglot.com, the Gothic > Alphabet is also posted. If one could find out the meanings of those > names, which most are similar, then we could learn the meanings of > those runes. > > I really like the way that the Gothic runes are different from the > Elder Futhark in some of their designs. I have done searches on the > Gothic Runes, but I keep getting the same erroneous information that > the Gothic Futhark is the same as the Elder Futhark, but with one > extra rune. This doesn't seem true according to the list of runes at > www.omniglot.com . I think I will e-mail both sources and ask for > references. > > But if anyone can contribute to this discussion, please do. > > Thanks. You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From aranwe at MAIL.RU Tue Jun 28 21:38:32 2005 From: aranwe at MAIL.RU (rausch_roman) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:38:32 -0000 Subject: a Gothic poem (verse 2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >You might find this site useful too. Click on Wordcraft for >paradigms, but note that in the masculine sg. of JA-stem >adjectives, -jis,-e should read jis,eis. Which ending is used >depends on the same rules as masc. JA-stem nouns. >http://www.stormloader.com/carver/gutrazda/ I'm already using this chart, thanks anyway. :-) > and can safely be written without length >marks if you like since they always indicate a long vowel. Well, the length marks always remind me of their quality. :-) >'abrs' (=Gk. isxuros) may mean 'extreme' or 'severe'. It's one >attestation is 'huhrus abrs' "a great/severe famine". The adverb >'abraba' "very, greatly, extremely" appears three times translating >Gk. sfodra. Twice describing extreme fear, once extreme size >(??u blo?u mahteig rau?,) Hmm.. Yes, it seems that 'abrs' is slightly out of context here; 'mahteigs' should be neutral enough. But I'd like to preserve 'jah' - it's one additional unstressed syllable in the first line; and this creates the acceleration in the following ones. So: '??u blo?u, mahteig jah rau?' >So possibly: so swero r?na leike; so swero leike r?na. >Or leaving out articles altogether: swera r?na leike. And what about: 'Sw?ra r?na ?ize leike' (or 'R?na sw?ra ?ize leike')? This would be the same construction as: 'allans ?iudinassuns ?is midjungardis' - 'all the kingdoms of the world' (Luke 4:5) (by the way: 'Midgard'='world' in the Bible? Interesting..) The same goes for: 'wein gal?uf ?ize reike' (?) >filugalaubo, with a 'b'. >The rule is that voiced fricatives were de-voiced at the end of a >word, or before a voiceless consonant. This is usually reflected in >the spelling of the manuscripts Argh.. Forgotten about that.. >Actually the word is attested only once I >see: J 12,3 filugalaubis, masc./neut. gen. sg. But also with >similar meaning: galaubaim x1, galaubamma x2. 'Filu-gal?ufs' seems to be a fortification of 'gal?ufs'. But the latter, like 'in [...] wastjom galaubaim' - 'with [...] costly array' (Timothy I 2:9), is costly enough for my purpose, I think. Wright doesn't list 'gal?ufs', thanks for pointing it out.. Hm.. The word seems to be pure Gothic, without cognates in other Germanic languages. I wonder whether it's connected to something ... gal?ubeins? >Alternatives for line 2 (to make up for mucking up your rhyme;) >lagga ni ligi? "lie" >lagga ni wisi? "last" >suns uslei?i? "soon goes/disappears" Ah, great, the rhyme's hr?in again. :-) I'll take 'lagga ni ligi?', because of the alliteration. You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From homermakedonski at YAHOO.COM Tue Jun 28 21:23:12 2005 From: homermakedonski at YAHOO.COM (homermakedonski) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:23:12 -0000 Subject: About the origin of suffix os -question Message-ID: Dear all Please forgive my lingua.amateurism but I have nobody else to ask then you in here Searching the gender changing problem with the nouns I have notice something like : GeA-fem.gender GheOS-masculine gender ------ TheA- fem.gen TheOS -masc. gend When searching the origin of word Zeus I have read nice explaination in Henry George Liddel's and Robert Scott's ,Greek-Englesh Lexicon sixth edition ,Oxford ,May I869 as follow -" ....????-gen of Z??? from obsol . ??s. [ ĭ ] *??'? , an old nom .for ????,wich appears in the oblique cases ???? ???, ???(pl.????, .????,Plut.2. 425 E ),and the Lat. Dis , Diespiter , Dijovis .The contr.dat.?? occurs in C.I no. I 6. Pind. N. I. III : the Acc ?? ????; v. ???? ( V. sub ???? )..." page -389 I am supposing that *??'? could be shortly from *??'O? Here is my dilema Also I suppose that origin of the suffiks O? having it's origin in "suffiks" *ON and that the whole word *??'O? originate in *??'ON at Page.1130 about the Os section beginning is ?? ,?,?,gen.??, then at 1132 Page is stay as '??,?, '?,v .. II.I 609., 305,Od. II 5 I 5 ) gen: ??? .3 333, Od I.330 , ect.:Possessive Pron.: I. of the third per- son for ? Knowing that genitive is case what is " expressing ownership" I would like to know How do we read this Does it mean that "ON" originated in ?? or ?? having it's root in ?? i.e. ON ? More than Grateful Goce Janevski aka Homer MakeDonski You are a member of the Gothic-L list. To unsubscribe, send a blank email to . Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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