Gepanta - *gabideis ??

Tue Apr 4 00:19:39 UTC 2006

Hails jah þu!

Waistu hvan 'ioticism', þatist kreka inmaideins [e] > [i], dugann?  
Mahtu ist þatei gairmanisk [i] meliþ wesi her krekamma staba etin?  
D'Alquen gamelida þatei, bi Sturtevanta, eta stafs ju bi j.f. 400 
swe [i] skeirjan skulds ist (Gothic ai and au, m. 43).  Iþ bi 
Marchanda eta [e] taiknida in mela Wulfilins (The Sounds and 
Phonemes of Wulfilas Gothic, m. 28).  Þata ragin ana waurdam us 
krekon in armeniskon laihvanaim gasuliþ ist.  Raþjons þozei is gaf 
sind:

kr. eta = arm. e 25 sinþam, ê 3 sinþam, i 6 sinþam.

Do you know when ioticism of eta, [e] > [i], began?  Could it be 
that a Germanic [i] would be written here with the Greek letter 
eta?  D'Alquen wrote that, according to Sturtevant, the letter eta 
is to be interpreted as [i] already by CE 400.  But according to 
Marchand, eta signified [e] in the time of Wulfila.  This opinion is 
based on words loaned from Greek into Armenian.  The figure he gives 
are:

Gk. eta = Arm. e 25 times, ê 3 times, i 6 times.

Gaþ-þan-laubja þatei krek <ai> ju samana draus miþ aipsilaun.  Niba 
nu so brukida laudi her ist <aï>, ni gawenja þatei waurd gutiskata 
twihliuþ þar habaidedi.  Aþþan managa sind þoei ik ni wait.  Ni 
fraþja duhve skuld sijai raihtis her lateinisk <i> bigitan, iþ 
krekata <ai> in namo Gepidae : GHPAIDES.  Aufto namo gafrisahtiþ ist 
afar taujawaurda lasiwamma þridjins hiuhmins.  Iþ so lateinisko 
laudi mais þugkeiþ swe taujawaurda lasiwamma frumins hiuhmins.

Now, I think that Greek <ai> had fallen together with epsilon.  So 
unless <aï> is the form used here, I don't suppose the Gothic word 
would have have a diphthong there.  But there's a lot I don't know.  
I don't understand why Latin <i> should be found here, but Greek 
<ai>.  Maybe the name is formed from a weak verb of the 3rd class?  
But the Latin form seems more like a weak verb of the 1st group.

Nauh þagkjands
(still thinking...),

Llama Nom

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans at ...> wrote:
>
> Hails!
> 
> This OE reference is very good in its alluding to fate. When
> rebuilding this word I had only thought of Gabid- as "Given", which
> seems too unbound and meaningless and is furthermore wrong of me,
> since I had thought only of the verb derivation (i.e. from giban), 
not
> the noun derivation (i.e. from giba or, as here, ? *gab(j)-), 
which in
> pp. would mean "gifted" (having been gifted or provided with or 
made
> into a gift). But this holy meaning is really more believable. 
Still
> the oldest Greek and Roman spellings, which are I grant infamously
> shaky, would give us something like /gE:pajdes/ or /gepantas/...
> 
> cf. 
> > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the 
first 
> > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
> 
> -Matthew
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > Gepidae (Jordanes chapters 33, 73-74, 94-97, 99, 100, 113, 133).
> > Go. *Gibidans, masculine an-stem pl. (OE Gifðas, Gefðas).
> > 
> > Could the original meaning have been `the fortunate ones'?  cf. 
OE 
> > gifeðe `granted (by fate); fate, chance'; and the tribal name of 
one 
> > group of Vandals, the Silingi = *Selingos?, perhaps related to 
Go. 
> > sels "good", OE sælig, OIc. sæll "fortunate".  Maybe the 
insulting 
> > meaning "slow" applied to the Gepids could be exaplained as a 
> > euphemistic development parallel to English 'silly' 
> > formerly "simple/innocent", before that "blessed" 
and "fortunate".
> > 
> > Just a wild guess.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hails Thiudans.
> > > 
> > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans at y...> 
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > More on Gepanta - Gepid:
> > > > 
> > > > Cleasby/Vigfusson have an entry:
> > > > 
> > > > "GAUFA, að, (and gauf, n., gaufari, a, in.), to saunter, be 
> > > sluggish, freq. akin to gafi, cp. Goth, gepanta in a reference 
by 
> > > Jornandes -- iiam lingua eoruin 'pigra' gepanta dicitur, 
whence ' 
> > > Gcpidi, ' the name of an ancient Teut. people."
> > > > 
> > > > Gaufa in OIc. should have shown Go. *gaupan - gaupanda. Or? 
The 
> > > greek word for Gepids (Gepaides) shows a long e (eta) on the 
first 
> > > syllable and an acute tone or accent on the penult.
> > > 
> > > > Any other explanations for the Gepids' name?
> > > 
> > > Later scholar (Jon Helgason, for example) reconstruct the 
norse 
> > form 
> > > as *gefdar or *gefdir (if an i-stem), citing OE, etc.. Now, on 
the 
> > > surface at least, this seems more realistic to me. The name 
seems 
> > > probable, at least to me, as from what we know about germanic 
folk 
> > > in general from these times, they placed high value on 
generosity 
> > > and nobility, praising high ranking folk for being generous 
and 
> > mild 
> > > with food, gifts (weapons, jewelry, etc.). Whether right or 
wrong, 
> > > *gefdar or *gefdir would seem a culturally appropriate name. 
> > > 
> > > One issue which puzzles me is the reconstruction of the goths' 
> > name 
> > > for their own tongue, *gutiska. On the face of it, this 
adjectival 
> > > form would seem inappropriate when compared with other 
germanic 
> > > tongues, where a fem. on-stem is prefered (nominal). Would not 
the 
> > > form *gutisko (oblique -on) make more sense? 
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Konrad
> > > 
> > > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, jdm314 at a... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > jdm31- at aol.com wrote:
> > > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/gothic-l/?
> > start=785
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gepanta (gepantus?) is obviously later Latin.
> > > > > > Cannot find it in my Latin-Swedish dictionary.
> > > > > > Am contacting an expert in the field to see
> > > > > > what he comes up with.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 	It occurs in the Getica, which is supposed to have 
been 
> > > > published in551 AD, so yes, it is late. Furthermore, it 
isn't 
> > > Latin, it's a supposedly Gothic word quoted in a Latin text. 
> > > Therefore it is not surprising if you cannot find it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -Ïusteinus
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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