Name of the Goths

[Ingemar Nordgren]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Michael Erwin <merwin at ...> wrote:
>
> But the Weilbark Culture borrowed most of their burial practices from  
> the earlier Oksywie Culture, and were called Goths (or Gutones, by  
> Roman historians) before they borrowed the stone circles from Gotland  
> or Scandinavia.
> 
> I don't doubt that there were continuous contacts between the three  
> regions. Some practices spread from the Vistula, some from Gotland,  
> and some from Scandinavia. I can't see why the name (Gut-) cannot  
> have spread from the Vistula, beginning as a regional name on the  
> Vistula and becoming a thiuda-name from Gutthiuda to Gotland.
> 
> It does lead to one question (why would Gotlanders pick it up?) but  
> it does resolve another question (what is flowing?).
> 
> Of course the Goths, like the Russians, Bulgars, etc. could have  
> taken someone else's name.
>

Dear Michael,

The names of Gudones,Gutones, Gutar and Gautar are linguistically  the
same word and they all lived/live around the Baltic and partly
Kattegat. In other words they seem to have a common origin even if
later some spoke Eastgermanic and some Northgermanic. There is a good
analysis by professor Th.Andersson 1996	'Götar, goter, gutar'.  In
Namn och Bygd nr. 1 1996, p. 5-21.

I cite some sentences:

”A people referred to as *gautoz/*gutaniz, inhabiting the region in
and around the southern Baltic Sea, appear to have been the ancestors
of the Scandinavian *gautoz 'Geat’s and *gutaniz 'Gotlander’s and the
East Germanic tribe of the *gutaniz 'Goth’s.” He also refers to these
tribes as Goto-Nordic. (Th.  Andersson 1998, p.15 f , 21)

As I wrote before Anders Kaliff has shown  on intensive contacts also
between Scandinavia and the Vistula (the Lusatian culture) during  the
late Bronze Age with intermarriage between chieftains, similar burial
customs et c. I agree the influences to the Wielbark (not Weilbark)
culture are many and from different directions. Note however that
already around BC the habit of weaponless fire pit graves - for men
only - starts to appear with a less good pottery than before when the
Vistula cremation graves normally had weapons. Flat ground graves of
that type with similar pottery existed earlier on the Swedish
westcoast and partly also in Eastern Gautland. At about this time many
grave fields in Western Sweden (Western Gautland) were terminated and
about 30-40 years later new fields appear in the Vistula region.
Eastern Gautland had a mixed habit with also stonesettings of
different kind. Theses burialtypes were used alongside with
stonecircles all over the Scandinavian peninsula. Influences hence
might have come from both Gotland and Scandinavia in periods but the
common divine heritage might be originating already during the Bronze
Age. If it is true Pytheas knew them this can be the case but, of
course, it is indeed unclear what Pytheas in fact wrote. The main body
of the population however in the Vistula region  are of local origin
and it seems primarily to have been a cultic and mercantile influence
by strong immigrants/chieftains - maybe in the way Pritsak argues for
Carismatic clans. It means a relative small number of immigrants and
in wawes during several hundred years maybe. The fact they left the
Vistula area almost totally also points more on a temporal stage of
developement, a temporary stop for formation in a place less suited
for great numbers of  people, but good from the start if the intention
was that some few strong leaders would control the Amber trade. In
that respect I can well see Gotlandish merchants being the prime wave.
The Gepids later have been examined by Jerzy Ockulic and he concludes
that the tribe formed as a multiochtonous gathering with both locals
and people from all over the Baltic and Kattegat region.

Accordingly the question of the Gothic name and the Gothic origin is
by no means solved.

Best
Ingemar





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