Is this a matter for the Gothic list?

[akoddsson]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, macmaster at r... wrote:
>
> I think so; certainly, it has been raised here before at least in 
passing (can't recall who posted a 'reconstruction' of 
Gothic/Scandinavian migrations & links)

> Even in a purely linguistic discussion, the question of the 
relationships between the Germanic languages and where, when and how 
the divisions occured has a bearing on this subject.

> I personally tend to agree with Heather; the Goths as we know 
emerged in eastern Europe.  But, there probably was a migration from 
Scandinavia to the south Baltic coast - I think that it was most 
likely a 'migration' so small (one or two boatloads) as to be 
virtually invisible.  The Goths were, in my mind, made up of people 
descended from many sources who coalesced over a long period around 
a small group who came in that initial migration.

Tom, why would the Goths not have a more homogeneous orgin, as would 
seem to be the case with other Germanic folk of that time? It would 
seem that they had an ethnic identity, specific language, customs, 
etc. with which they identified themselves. Personally, I find it 
unlikely that the Goths, at least before their divisions and demise, 
were of very diverse origins. At least, they seem to have maintained 
a strong ethnic identity, even into their later period, when their 
descendants were settled in a wide geographic area. Furthermore, I 
do not think that fighting wars on the same side as the Goths, or 
having trading relations with them, being conquered by them, or just 
subject to their rule, actually made one a Goth, nor do I think that 
Goths would have so considered. More than likely, I think, what made 
one a Goth was ethnicity. 

Regards,
Konrad

> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> Wilhelm Otto wrote:
> > Dear Gothic list,
> >
> > Is this a chat list just for the language itself or for a wider 
approach
> > to
> > the gothic culture, as history?
> >
> > If it serves the later purpose as well I will raise a subject. I 
have just
> > read Peter Heather:
> >
> > "The Goths" and this book gives me an entirely new view of the 
old gothic
> > world. He tells us about Jordanes' Gethica and claims that it is 
among
> > contemporary historians Jordanes' fault that people still 
believe the
> > Goths
> > originated in Scandinavia before moving across the Baltic. 
Secondly, from
> > at
> > least the the third century the Goths was divided into two 
groups: the
> > Visgoths and the Ostrogoths and thirdly that these groups were 
led by two
> > families with unique royal prestige, the Balthi and the Amals.
> >
> > These ideas, Peter Heather says, have set an agenda around which 
argument
> > has raged.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been trying to discuss the first of these topics, the 
exodus, on a
> > Swedish chat list and am very confused by the response. There 
are members
> > who claim there has been an exodus, although Peter Heather 
claims that the
> > dating of relevant objects from both sides of the Baltic shows 
that there
> > has been none. And Peter Heather seems to be a man who to day 
carries the
> > weight of argument. I have a general feeling that in Sweden the 
Gothic
> > exodus is a valueloaded topic, and that it is difficult to give 
it a fair
> > treatment.
> >
> >
> >
> > For me this is a matter of preserving my bearings in a world I 
thought was
> > rational, at least in these circumstances.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this a topic for the Gothic list?
> >
> > Wilhelm Otto
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/238 - Release Date:
> > 2006-01-23
>






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