Name of the Goths

[akoddsson]

Hails Dirk!

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin at ...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> you have of course all heard the interpretation of the name of the 
Goths (Gutane) derived from a word meaning 'to pour/flow' with the 
sense of 'those who have been created by the outpouring of semen by 
a god'.

Yes, from PGmc. *geutan, 'to pour'. But this says nothing about what 
is pouring/being poured. 

> I wonder if this is not a little bit far fetched.

The 'semen'-part could well be. 

> Consider the German place name Göttingen (a big and old town in 
Lower Saxony). It is first mentioned with the name Gutinge in AD 953 
and was also called Gotinge in medieval sources. The interpretation 
of the name is based on an Old Saxon word 'guta' 
meaning 'stream/flow of water'. The modern Eastfalian (the dialect 
of the Göttingen area) is is 'Gôtë' and these words are closely 
related to modern German 'Gosse', which means again 'stream or flow 
of water'. 

Well, yes, there are many derivative words like this from *geutan in 
the Germanic languages. A Norse parallel to the German gosse is the 
term gos, which refers to an 'outpouring' of something, also used 
about carbonated drinks like coca-cola, etc.. It seems like a fairly 
generic Germanic root, found in various forms. 

> Thus, the place name Gutinge (Göttingen) refers to ' the place of
the people at the stream of water'. In fact, some sources even refer
to a Saxon 'sub-tribe' as the Gudinge from the same area. The name of
the Goths has clearly the same linguistic roots and it may have had 
the same development, only that usually the more sophisticated 
interpretation of 'giessen', i.e. to pour or flow is employed to 
arrive at  the meaning of 'the once who were created by the flow of 
semen from a god'. 

Naturally, 'giessen' is Modern German from PGmc. *geutan, meaning 
the same thing, essentially. 

> Again, I think this is a bit far fetched and the name may simply 
refer to their settlements at the Vistula river/flow Guta.

Etymologically, it could. 

> I know this is a little trivial, but since this purely descriptive 
meaning has given rise to Gutinge and the Gudinge people, why should 
it not also have given rise to the Gutane. Or is there any good 
argument that the term Gutane must have to do with the flow of semen 
instead of water?

No good arguments to this end, as far as I am aware of. The only 
thing which seems certain here is that it is somehow related to the 
PGmc. verb *geutan, which is not telling us very much about why the 
Goths were so called. Possible explanation are many, all highly 
theoretical, I think. The same is true of the Geats, *gautôs, who 
seem to have derived their name from the same stem (*geut-, seen in 
the verb *geutan). Incidentally, they live by a major river, called 
Gautelfr, as well. But it is hard to say is these names really have 
anything to do with living by pouring water. It seems, here, that 
these name-givings are buried in the mists of time, giving us little 
to stand on. Is it known why the Gutinge were so called? Venturing a 
guess, I might suggest that these name-gifts from *geut- could have 
something to do with the god *Wôdanaz, who bares personal names from 
this same root (ON Gautr, Goti); however, this is only a suggestion 
about a possible relation based on sharing a common root, a guess. 
Obviously, these names are pre-historical, pre-dating any literacy 
amongst Germanic folk, and no explanations have survived. I venture 
another guess about a possible relation to the mythical founder of 
Gutland (see Guta Saga), who had 3 sons, the first of whom was named 
Guti (Go. *Guta). The name is a masc. n-stem, weak, and is the same 
as the Gothic word for 'Goth', *guta pl. *gutans. Thus, according to 
this guess, *gutans would be descendants of *Guta, mythical ancestor 
of all Goths. By extension, Gutland (Go. *Gutlanda) would be called 
after the Goths as whole, being a root-formation, rather than after 
a mythical ancestor *Guta, as otherwise we would expect **Gutaland, 
Go. **Gutinsland, which do not occur. Again, this is only a guess, 
not a real explanation. 

Regards,
kunjareths

> Cheers,
> 
> Dirk
>






You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/