Name of the Goths

[ualarauans]

Hailai!

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson at ...>
wrote:
> >
> > Hails Dirk!
> >
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > you have of course all heard the interpretation of the name of
the
> > > Goths (Gutane) derived from a word meaning 'to pour/flow' with 
the
> > > sense of 'those who have been created by the outpouring of 
semen by
> > > a god'.

One could probably think of an alliterative verse smth like this 
(Gothic):

Frauja fairhvaus fraiwa us-gaut... etc etc in the sense "that's why 
he (the Lord) is called Gauts and we, his offspring, are called 
Gutans (unte us-gutans warth sa fruma Guta us *h-im Gautis)...

But, seriously, are we quite sure that we're dealing with the same 
word here (PG *geutanan "to pour") and not some lost homonym with a 
totally different meaning. We've got a handful of East-Germanic 
ethnonyms which seem obscure for all we know of the Germanic 
vocabulary, e.g. Gepides (a famous case), Rugi, Bastarni etc. 
Couldn't original Gotones be of this kind? Later, by the Goths 
themselves or by modern scholars, associated with "pouring"?

> > > Consider the German place name Göttingen (a big and old town in
> > > Lower Saxony). It is first mentioned with the name Gutinge in 
AD
953
> > > and was also called Gotinge in medieval sources. The 
interpretation
> > > of the name is based on an Old Saxon word 'guta'
> > > meaning 'stream/flow of water'. The modern Eastfalian (the 
dialect
> > > of the Göttingen area) is is 'Gôtë' and these words are closely
> > > related to modern German 'Gosse', which means again 'stream or 
flow
> > > of water'.

Sure, it's not from *Gutiggos "Goths' heirs", referring to those 
under leadership of kings descended from the dynastical marriage of 
Airminafrithus Thaurigge thiudans and Amalabairga Thiudareikis 
nithjo thiudanis (Get. 298)?

> > > Thus, the place name Gutinge (Göttingen) refers to ' the place 
of
> > > the people at the stream of water'. In fact, some sources even 
refer
> > > to a Saxon 'sub-tribe' as the Gudinge from the same area. The 
name
of
> > > the Goths has clearly the same linguistic roots and it may 
have had
> > > the same development, only that usually the more sophisticated
> > > interpretation of 'giessen', i.e. to pour or flow is employed 
to
> > > arrive at  the meaning of 'the once who were created by the 
flow of
> > > semen from a god'.
> >

The Saxon form seems not to fit in phonetically, doesn't it? 
Certainly you know of Lithuanian gudai pl. (gudas sg.) which is now 
referring to neighbor Slavic peoples (Poles, Russians, White-
Russians). Further there's Yatvingian guti pl. "crusaders" (those of 
Deutscher Orden). I read an article in "Linguistic and Oriental 
Studies from Poznan", vol. 1, 1992, pp. 99-133 - Zigmas 
Zinkievicius. A Polish-Yatvingian Vocabulary? - where it is stated 
(p. 111) that <<K. Buga, E. Hermann, E. Fraenkel and other linguists 
identify the said word [Lith. gudai - vlrvns] with the name of Goths 
with which, according to the linguists, the Balts got acquainted 
when Goths themselves pronounced their name as *ghudas (*ghudos)>>. 
I do not know what exactly is meant here: a form preceding the 
consonant shift, or the original form before the name was 
interpreted in the direction of "pouring". In which latter case it 
could be the said Saxon Gudinge that survived unchanged.

Ualarauans






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