Emigration av Goths

[Tore Gannholm]

Hi Otto,
I have another interesting book about the Gotlanders cultural and  
commercial involvement in the southern Baltic shores during the  
centuries BC.

http://www.stavgard.com/romaniron/kringjarnaldern/default.htm

Unfortunately the book written by professor Erik Nylén is written in  
Swedish with summary in German

On Mar 1, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Wilhelm Otto wrote:

> Hi Tore,
>
> Goth’s heritage.
>
> I have been pondering the answer I got from you 06 02 05. In that  
> message
> you refer to the same book as you referred to in an earlier answer  
> to mine
> 06 01 29. I have given several leads to several threads to  
> questions to be
> pursued in this discussion. I have tried several approaches. But  
> there is,
> whatever I say, only one answer – Kaliff’s book. Thus Kaliff’s book  
> contains
> all the answers to the enigma of the Goth’s heritage! Still, Kaliff  
> does not
> answer how to bridge the gap between the archaeological findings  
> and the
> investigated culture. And how could he do that?
>
>
>
> Your answer, that the Goths came from Gotland, is remarkable, to  
> say the
> least.

Please note, I don't say the Goths came from Gotland. I say Gotland  
was in the center of the culture in the southern Baltic area. I can  
only interpret it that the Gotlanders played a leading role in this  
area. Therefore they might also have taken a leading part in the  
formation of the "Gothic league".

> Most scientists acknowledge that they don’t know from where the Goths
> came. What we know is that that they surface in history a couple of
> centuries AD in the area of the Donahue or north of the Black Sea.  
> This is
> what we think we know. That is what we have as a working  
> hypothesis. Then
> just to point at Kaliff’s book and say that there is your answers,  
> is that
> good science? I do not think so! Do not forget that there is a need  
> for a
> scientific discussion, a weighing of pros and cons in order to  
> search for a
> better answer than that we have? There is always a better answer.
>

Of this reason I try to find all sources to the Gotlandic trade and  
cultural links in this area. I think this is good science.


>
>
> There is a danger in answering such a question with archaeology and  
> a couple
> of authors from a time when the truth had other claims then it does to
> today. Peter Heather shows the difficulties with using archaeology  
> as a
> geographical positioner of a political force. On pages 15 and 16 he  
> shows
> two maps. One shows “Groups named in Tacitus’ Germania and their  
> approximate
> locations” and the other shows “Traditional archaeological cultures  
> of the
> earlier Roman Iron Age”. Pondering the two maps I figure that a  
> negative
> indication is in some cases fair. A certain culture is probably not
> connected with a distant tribe if they do not have much in common,  
> but a
> positive identification seems very difficult. A searching process  
> in this
> manner, is it not the essence of the scientific culture which has  
> given us
> so much benefit and ultimately made this part of the world rich?
>
>
>
> There is in our culture a dividing line between us who ask and  
> those who
> decree. And there is a dividing line between our itchingly curious  
> learning
> culture and those who know it all. There is a clash of cultures, in  
> these
> days seen every day on the telly, and we, who think ourselves as  
> historians,
> know that this is a long battle. The forces of ignorance and thus  
> poverty
> have through the centuries been pushed back. The battle is no  
> longer bloody,
> fought among the western countries. There, mostly, the battle is  
> fought with
> words of arguments and reason. But it is still a long battle we  
> have in
> front of us. And that battle is fought with asking questions.
>
>
>
> And the frontline is there not only between us. It is in our own  
> minds too.
> At least is has to be in yours. You point out in a very good little  
> book
> about history from Gotland that Gotlands nearest point on the  
> mainland is in
> Curland and of a similarity of place names, duplicated in both  
> places, both
> in Curland and Gotland. I had thought that you would draw the  
> conclusion
> that a lot of people on Gotland descended from Curland.

Why should they. We have plenty of proof of Gotlandic colonies in  
Curland. Excavated by professor Nerman in the  1920's

> You did not. Great
> people seldom derive from small islands, but rather the other way.  
> Could you
> just point to an exception? It would have been a very natural  
> conclusion. It
> would at least have been a natural conclusion to ponder and  
> ultimately to
> discuss. These similar place names could maybe have been dated.  
> Thereby
> their position in the development of Gotland could have been  
> established.

I don't understand your reasing. Just look at the archaelogical finds  
in Gotland!!

> And further there could maybe be analogies drawn from the  
> importance of
> Iceland. It is another island where property was claimed by fire as  
> Tjelvar
> did in Gotland. We could have gained some knowledge that way.

First settlers in Gotland arrived 8000 years ago and we have a very  
rich archaeological history.

We can't just ignore Gotland. It exists with the rich archaeological  
sites.

It is ridiculous that you can still read in some Swedish books that  
Tacitus wrote about the prosperous Swedes and did not know about  
Gotland.

Tacitus' informer visited the amber diggings in the Visla area and  
visited the most important trading places in the Southern Baltic. If  
you stand in the Visla area Gotland is straight out in the middle of  
the Baltic. If you instead want to se the so called "Svear" you have  
to submerge Gotland.


The first settlers arrived in Iceland 1200 years ago.

Tore

> Somebody else
> could have done that too. So we all had come out of it better off.  
> And so I
> could go on.
>
>
>
> It did not happen. But the essence of the scientific discussion is  
> that
> there is a process of persuasion; a sort of marketing of ideas if  
> you got
> any, and are prepared to give and take. Such discussion convinces.  
> It makes
> us believe that this or that is a clear cut case, or that the best  
> questions
> are not yet asked. You have at least convinced me that Gothic  
> heritage is
> not easily discussed. I can not see it as a matter of faith. I see  
> it as a
> yet unsolved historical problem.
>
> Yours
>
> Wilhelm
>
>
>


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