Visigothic identity of Spain

[ualarauans]

Hi Dirk,

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin@> wrote:
>
> I saw an interesting programme recently, featuring a Duchess of 
Medina-
> Sidonia. The programme was about her ancestor who commanded the
> Spanish armada in 1588. However, she mentioned that here family was
> long believed to be of Visigothic origin. The family name of the 
dukes
> of Medina Sidonia is Guzman and she explained that earlier family
> tradition and historians claimed that this name was derived from
> Gundomaris.

It's a long time since I heard the idea of Guzman derived from 
Gothic 'goths manna' "good man", a self-title associated primarily 
with haeretical Cathars in South France. Being a Manichaean-style 
sect they used the expression 'bonhommes' referring to their 
spiritual leaders (perfecti). A German Cathar's prayer as recorded 
in some contemporary source was concluded with words "...und werdest 
ein gut mann".

Still, it would probably be hard to find a verifiable historical 
link between the Visigoths and the 12th ct. haeretics, and, what's 
more, to prove that Cathars spoke Gothic or used it as a kind of 
liturgical language...

Did (does) Spanish 'Guzman' mean something as a common noun, not 
only a personal name?

> However, being a historian herself, she revealed that this
> derivation was incorrect. She said that Guzman is actually a 
moorish
> name and that papers in the family archives show that the earliest
> ancestors of the Dukes of Medina-Sidonia - one of the oldest noble
> family of Spain  - were originally moslems. In general, this
> illustrates that the Visigothic past was glorified in Spain, due to
> the associataion with Christianity, whereas the Ostrogothic past of
> Italy was played down as the Germanic Goths were regarded as  
inferior
> to classical Roman culture.

Yes, and one of the reasons could be that the Visigothic nation fell 
fighting a Catholic resistance against the Muslims, whereas the 
Ostrogoths did actually fight their last war against the Catholics 
(or Catholic-Orthodox, not divided yet) being haeretics themselves.

Ualarauans




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