Terwingi and Tyringi/Turingi

[ualarauans]

Hi Dirk,

Yes, what I never could understand is how [Hermun]duri evolved to 
Thur[ingi] phonetically. But neither the suggested Teruingi > 
Teuringi is a regular phonetic development. Do we have other 
examples of a similar metathesis in would-be Ostmitteldeutsch? Or 
was it just a "typo" which did happen in Latin spellings by medieval 
scribes. It couldn't probably be Gothic, as *Tairwiggos doesn't get 
turned to **Tiuriggos / **Tauriggos by a mere re-positioning of two 
letters. And peoples seldom get their name as a result of a scribal 
error, don't they? Maybe there could have been a contamination of 
*Duringi and Teruingi?

Since and until when was Dnestr being called Tyras? If borrowed by 
the Goths as *Twra, what the actual pronunciation would have been, 
[tira] or [türa], or maybe even [tura]? Jordanes used Danaster which 
may hint to Gothic *Danastr(u)s as another current name of the 
river. If G. Kampers' hypothesis be correct, the proto-form was 
*Twriggos in Gothic, right?



--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "faltin2001" <d.faltin at ...> wrote:
>
> I've read the new article "Thüringer" in the Reallexikon der
> Germanischen Altertumskunde (RGA). The authors clearly reject the 
old
> theory, which saw the Thuringi as descendents of the Hermun-duri. 
M.
> Springer argues in the historical section of the study that neither
> the temporal, nor the geographical and especially not the 
linguistic
> arguments allow such a link between the Thuringi and Hermunduri. In
> the archaeological section of the study, C. Theune supports this 
view
> and states bluntly that the newer scholarship rejects the link
> between Thuringi and Hermunduri (p. 536).
> 
> This leaves the question open where did the Thuringi come from. M.
> Springer discusses the theory, presented (again) recently by Grahn-
> Hoek, which argued that the Thuringi originated from remnants of 
the
> Tervingi. The idea is that the name T(h)(e)uringi is derived from 
the
> form T(h)eruingi. This theory has the advantage that it is
> linguistically feasible and that it makes sense also from a 
temporal
> point of view. I.e. the Theruingi disappear just at the time when 
the
> Theuringi appear at the Danube. Grahn-Hoek sites also a lot of
> historical argumentation for this theory, but the best support 
comes
> from archaeology. Thus, archaeologists have shown that carriers of
> the Chernyakhovs/Sintana-de-Mures culture had moved from the Black
> Sea to the heartland of the later Thuringian realm in the last
> decades of the 4th century. B. Schmidt names this group Niemberger
> Gruppe and Theune wrote that the Thuringian ethnogenesis took place
> on the basis of this Niemberger Gruppe around 400 AD. Theune states
> that further horse nomadic and East Germanic influences arrived in
> the course of the 5th century.
> 
> Interestingly, in her study Grahn-Hoek had linked the Thuringi with
> the Terwingi of Athanaric. Among others, she had stated that the
> Burgundian royal family was descended from Athanaric, the 
Terwingian
> judge. Grahn-Hoek argued that such a family link would be much more
> feasible if remnants of Athanaric's family had moved much further 
to
> the west to Thuringia than the usual settlements in Rumania. 
Indeed,
> Springer reiterates that early sources usually mention Thuringians
> and Burgundians side-by-side. He does not refer to the link with
> Athanaric, but Springer notes that the Thuringian castle Giebichen-
> stein might be named after the royal house of the Burgundians, the
> Giebichungen.
> 
> In his article "Terwingen" in the RGA, G. Kampers mentions an
> alternative name link, which was also discussed by Grahn-Hoek.
> Kampers states that the T(h)yringi (which is one of the name forms
> for Thuringi) could be the name of the Terwingi who lived at the
> Tyrus river (i.e. the later Dnestr). Such a name form would be
> analogue to the Tanaites, i.e. the Alan who lived at the Tanais 
river
> (Don).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dirk

Ualarauans






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