Naming practices

[Andreas Schwarcz]

Dear Randulfs,

thank you for reminding us of Jordanes's prejudices. 
I might possibly have forgotten otherwise that 
Jordanes worked for the Amal magister militum 
Gunthigis, also called Baza, whose father Andagis 
had killed the Visigothic king Theoderic in the 
battle on the Catalaunian fields, and that he wrote 
an abridged version of the lost History of the Goths 
by Cassiodorus. That both authors wrote histories of 
the Goths in  praise of the famliy of Theoderic the 
Great is quite well known, but does not concern the 
original point in question, namely the connection 
between the appellation Balthus and the Visigothic 
king Alaric I. As Jordanes states, Balthus means 
audax, "daring", and is the name of Alaric's family, 
"cui erat post Amalos secunda nobilitas".

The course of history may prove many things, but 
Jordanes did not speak of a "primacy of the 
Amalungs", so he cannot be proved wrong by anyone in 
that, not even by "the course of history", whatever 
that may be. What Jordanes may have ment could be 
interpreted as a relative ranking of nobility, 
expressed for instance in the fact that the 
Visigothic king named his son by an Ostrogothic 
princess Amalaric after the family of his father-in-
law Theoderic, not after his own family traditions. 
By the time Jordanes wrote his history, the last 
king of the line of the Balts, Amalaric, by the way 
himself an Amal by his mother and wearing an Amal 
name, had been deposed by Theudis, an Ostrogothic 
general, whereas there were a lot of Amals around in 
Constantinople, where Jordanes wrote his history, 
and the Amal princess and former queen Mathasuntha 
was married to Justinian's brother Germanus.

Best regards,
        Andreas Schwarcz

On 24 Dec 2010 at 18:45, r_scherp wrote:

> 
>  
> And do remember that Jordanes was prejudiced. I think the course of history has proved his assessment of 
> the primacy of the Amalung wrong.
> 
> Randulfs
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Schwarcz" <andreas.schwarcz at ...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Tom,
> >
> >
> >
> > Alaric is a name, not a title, and Balthus is the (royal or noble) family he
> > was from (the Latin source calls him "genere Baltha", "from the family of
> > the Balthi", and Jordanes writes that this family is only second in nobility
> > to the family of the Amali, the family of Theoderic the Great). The name
> > Balthus may also indicate some ethnic connection of the family. Other
> > members of this family may have been Ariaric, Aoric, Athanaric and Alaviv,
> > who were leaders of the Tervingi before Alaric. So to call him Alaric the
> > Bold or Bold Alaric would both be wrong.
> >
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Andreas Schwarcz
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ao.Univ.Prof.Dr. Andreas Schwarcz
> >
> > Institut für Österreichische Geschichtsforschung
> >
> > Universität Wien
> >
> > Dr. Karl Lueger-Ring 1
> >
> > A 1010 Wien
> >
> > Austria
> >
> > Tel. 0043-1-42-77/272-16
> >
> > Fax 0043-1-42-77/92-72
> >
> > andreas.schwarcz at ...
> >
> > _____
> >
> > Von: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com [mailto:gothic-l at yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag
> > von Thomas
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Dezember 2010 16:01
> > An: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [gothic-l] Naming practices
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings.
> >
> > I am working on a novel about Alaric. In my research, I read in one place
> > that Alaric may not have been his name, but that Alaric was a distortion by
> > contemporary writers of his title, Ala Reiks (prince of princes).
> >
> > I suspect that this is not true because there were many Gothic names which
> > included the suffix ric, Athanaric for instance.
> >
> > I have also read that he had an appellation, the bold (balthi).
> > To complicate that, I read that Balthi was the title of a sub-tribe of the
> > Tervingi.
> >
> > My goal in writing is to not only entertain, but to educate.
> > So, I have a question. If Balthi were an appellation to Alaric's name, would
> > it have been:
> > Alaric the Bold (Like Eric the Red)
> > or
> > Bold Alaric (like Red Eric)
> >
> > Thank you guys very much.
> > I have asked questions here before and got very helpful responses. You guys
> > are great.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
>  


"-"
ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
Institut für österreichische  Geschichtsforschung
Universität Wien
Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
A 1010 Wien
Austria
Tel.0043/1/42-77-272-16
Fax 0043/1/42-77-92-72
andreas.schwarcz at univie.ac.at
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